The dilemma posed to the West by the returning “ISIS brides” was on display this week as the last group of die-hard women were transported by anti-ISIS forces to safe areas away from the final holdout in Syria, Baghouz. The burka-wearing women were shown in a video shouting abuse at female reporters and even grabbing them by their hair in anger of the failure to comply with Islamic strictures. One woman yells at a female reporter “Have you not read the Koran, are you not ashamed?” Another simply says “We will seek vengeance, there will be blood up your knees.” The scene is unfolding in Syria as we brace for litigation in the United States over the return of Hoda Muthana, an ISIS bride who once supported the terrorist organization but now wants to return. Muthana has an intriguing claim to citizenship.
The women are shown yelling “baqiya” from ISIS’s motto “baqiya wa tatamaddad”, or “remaining and expanding.” Some pledge to rebuild the “caliphate” and many swear that they will continue to follow ISIS.
Thousands are being relocated from the town and many are hardcore believers in ISIS and supported its blood-soaked regime, including its selling of young girls into sexual slavery and executions of nonbelievers.
The litigation over the return of Hoda Muthana has begun and she is presenting a plausible claim that she has a right to return to the United States, even if she will have to serve time for supporting a terrorist organization. Muthana was born in New Jersey after her father Ahmed Ali Muthana came her as a diplomat for Yemen. That would normally bar the use of birthright citizenship, but her father says that he left the diplomatic service and sought to remain in the United States before Muthana was born.
The issue will come down to a two-month period in 1994. The father insists that he gave up his status on September 1, 1994 as reflected in State Department documents. Two months after his status was revoked Huda Muthana was born. Moreover, his wife gained entry into the United States with a petition for permanent residency. That would seem to have a strong case for a citizenship claim and allow Muthana to return.
She was even issued a passport by the State Department, which the government now claims was issued by mistake.
Muthana, now 24, left the University of Alabama in 2014 to join ISIS, ultimately marrying two fighters who were killed in action. She now has a child by one of the fighters.
The case is now before U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton.
I get the idea we are going to have to come up with a new term for all of this. On one hand you have some odd guilt activity in Europe that is turning the place into a complete no go zone. The locals are putting up with it for some reason. Not Stockholm syndrome. Then you have these people that want to move to a better place and then somehow think that converting it to what they had at home is going to be any better. I am not sure how tolerant people need to be as it is becoming more and more apparent every day that it is like dealing with cult programming.
ISIS bride? More like Bride of Frankenstein. She’s an enemy of the American people who took up arms against us. Vaporize her.
What the hell is this latest Islamic Imbecile yammering about? Just ship her American Hating azz of to one of those middle east Islamic Slave Block!
Bloddy Lyrics, yes there is.
Spinning in his grave
I’m surprised there isn’t a clear law providing that if one joins an enemy force that he/she loses citizenship. Given our porous borders, it might be safer however to let them return, and then sentence them to life in prison with no chance of parole. In case of the later, we could build a prison on an island – maybe confiscate Jeffrey Epstein’s Island – and have it be run as a military prison by the military. Civilian prisons are inexplicably expensive to run. I’m sure this traitor thinks she’ll return, do a few years in a federal prison, which will be more comfy than her current situation, and then get out and sponge off the American taxpayer with the whole panoply of food stamps, subsidized housing, Obama Care, Obama phone, etc etc. It’s truly disgusting to contemplate.
We don’t need anymore prisons. They are not a solution. This whole Country is in danger of becoming a Prison to it’s own greed and ignorance. I like the idea though that if you choose to fight against this Country that you forfeit all rights to citizenship. We are throwing away and neglecting those who built and sustained this Country for the most awful whiny sorts who choose violence and deceit at the expense of those who put their trust, blood, seat and tears…..it undermines everything…..
We don’t need anymore prisons. They are not a solution.
They certainly are a solution. Criminals must be deterred, punished, and incapacitated. You need prisons to do that. You can finance more prison cells by firing social workers.
This whole Country is in danger of becoming a Prison to it’s own greed and ignorance.
Becka, no one is going to acquire knowledge or generosity listening to you.
I have a dilemma with Islam. I have read most of the Qu’ran. I have known many wonderful Muslims, both immigrants from various Muslim majority countries, as well as those born here. The peaceful verses of the Qu’ran are lovely.
What I cannon personally reconcile with the faith is the fact that it is a warrior religion. The Prophet Mohammad was a warlord, slaver, rapist, held sex slaves, and commanded the faithful to kill unbelievers. He would wait outside a village and if he did not hear the call to prayer, he would raid, rape, kill, and enslave. A wife has no right to say no, and can be forced to have sex even while riding a camel. He abolished adoption so he could take his adopted son’s wife as yet another of his own many wives. He allowed himself unlimited wives and sex slaves while limiting his followers to 4 wives. He advised his followers to beat their wives into submission. As a Western woman with Western beliefs, this is anathema to me.
ISIS actually does follow the Qu’ran more closely than many followers, although I doubt they dunk both wings of a fly in their drinks. If a fly lands in your drink, you are supposed to grab it and dunk the whole insect in, because poison resides on one wing, and the cure resides in another. You can drink water befouled with rotting animal corpses, because water is water and cannot be changed. You are to use your left hand to clean yourself after going to the bathroom, because Satan lives in the left hand. Non believers may survive if they agree to pay a fine, the jizya. Anti-semitism is encoded in the Qu’ran, and believers are to kill the Jew behind every rock where he hides.
If you put the Qu’ran in chronological order, the peaceful verses that were kind, and tolerant of Christians and Jews were written at a time when Mohammad was powerless. He was chastised for proselytizing, and his preaching did not move Jews to convert. It has been argued that this was the source of his abiding hatred for them. Once he came to power, and amassed an army, his teachers undeniably took a very dark, bloody, warlike turn. That is when he wrote the sword verses. According to today’s Western standards, he was a very bad man – murdering people because of their religion, fining people because of their religion, raping women, forcing them into sexual slavery, racist against black people, dealing in black slaves. That’s a bad person. And yet, he wrote that he was the best Muslim who would ever live for all of time, and that his life was to be held up as the standard for all future Muslims.
I mean, what am I to make of all of this? Islam is not for me, which is why I declined to go on Hajj. I never met a single Muslim who actually followed the Qu’ran to the letter. Most have never even heard of the most extreme dark parts of the Qu’ran. Or when they do read those passages, they just gloss over them. They don’t actually act it out, and they don’t sit there and ponder, if we are all to follow Mohammad’s example, and Mohammad was a raping, murderous warlord… Who is most acting like Mohammad? The Westernized moderate Muslim who is friends with Jewish people, let’s his daughters leave their hair uncovered, and peacefully coexists, or ISIS who puts everyone to the sword to create the global caliphate as directed by Mohammad? Mohammad didn’t just preach for his followers to abide by his teachings. He directed them to conquer the entire world, convert it to Islam, and kill anyone who resists. They are also directed to kill Muslims who do not properly follow the faith. ISIS would kill moderate Muslims. That is why women are killed for not following his teachings. That is why they killed a boy right in front of his parents because he said something that insulted the Prophet. That is why the ISIS brides engaged in violence against female reporters they felt were not following Sharia Law.
I believe that the tenets of the Muslim faith are extremely dangerous, if followed. I believe that Sharia Law is inherently incompatible with Western jurisprudence in many core, foundational areas. I also believe that moderate Muslims are reformers, although they may not realize it.
Every faith that I know of has gone through reformations. Why should Islam be any different? In fact, because of its inherently violent teachings, it is more so in need of reform than any other modern faith. Following the peace verses is perfectly fine, but following the sword versus is anathema to free Western society. ISIS follows the sword versus, and so is a terrorist organization that must be fought.
As for ISIS bride Muthana, I have absolutely no idea if she is sincere in her repentance, or plans to set up a sleeper cell. The law must apply equally to her. If it is proven that she is a citizen, then she has a right to go through our justice system. If she is proven to not be a citizen, then it is at our discretion if we want to take her back.
If she remains in a terrorist hotbed, then she and her child will likely remain extremist. I did hear about one of the ISIS brides losing her last remaining child, a newborn, to pneumonia in a refugee camp. ISIS brides routinely lose husbands and children, and live a miserable existence. There must either be something severely wrong with a girl for seeking out such a life, or she must be extremely ignorant. Teenagers do stupid things. In this case, the stupid thing was supporting terrorists to murder people. It’s like joining a camp of school shooters. You don’t get the same pity as if you stole grandma’s car and wrecked it.
I hope her citizenship question is resolved, one way or another, and that she gets justice, one way or another. I just want the system to be fair. And I want to find the key to destroying this thousand year machine of terrorism. We came very close to becoming an Islamic world, during the Muslim expansion when they conquered Spain, Portugal, and France. It took the Crusades to drive them back, or else all of us women would be veiled, uneducated, and beaten into submission. I hope we continue to push terrorism back, and that the sword versus about rape, slavery, polygamy, and wife beating are excised from a reformed Islam. There is hope for this religion, but they need to make some tough decisions.
Karen S, I rarely read long posts here, but I almost always read yours. You have a very intelligent, gentle way of expressing yourself. Thank you for setting a good example.
Thank you, FFS. That was really kind of you.
One day, I hope will learn how to be more concise.
Agree!
I’d give her the choice: stay in your chosen shithole or come back to execution as an enemy and murderer.
While incidentally reviewing a bit of family history yesterday, I noticed that an ancestor, Sir John Pophan, Lord Chief Justice, presided over the trial of Sir Walter Raleigh for treason against the Crown and passed sentence of hanging, drawing and quartering.
It would seem that this young lady committed treason; I suppose drawing and quartering is out of the question.
The Quran requires Muslims to convert or kill infidels. Americans are Christians, Jews, agnostics and atheists, which are infidels. Ergo, Muslims are mortal enemies of Americans. Muslims are peaceful when they are outnumbered or militarily inferior. When Muslims gain a high level of confidence, Sharia Law and the rule of the Quran will be imposed.
What kind of country would allow its enemies to cross its borders en masse?
“Original Intent”
____________
Federal naturalization laws (1790, 1795).
United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790).
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, that no person heretofore proscribed by any States, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an Act of the Legislature of the State in which such person was proscribed.
The United States, unfortunately. And much of Western Europe. White men have been emasculated.
Actually, the Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795 and 1802 persisted until “Crazy Abe” Lincoln’s similarly criminal and anti-Constitutionalist successors forced the improperly ratified “Reconstruction Amendments” down the throats of Americans with a “gun to their heads” and under the duress of post-war military occupation, a condition not typically considered usual, customary and reasonable for legislation.
FANATICS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH LSD
I have always felt that prisoners in Gauntanamo Bay could have been pacified with LSD. The concept would be to let them trip in secure but pleasant settings. They could lounge around on couches, for instance, listening to music while experiencing pharmaceutical-quality LSD.
Prisoners could trip once per week and smoke hashish or strong cannabis anytime in between. I am confident that a year of such therapy could mellow the most zealous of extremists.
Prisoners could also be made to attend classes where they are exposed to a wide variety of religions, philosophies and ideologies. The concept would be to keep pumping their heads with different ideas. The sheer volume of stimulation, on top of LSD, would surely move their minds beyond radical Islam.
This therapy, I believe, would be more effective and productive than simply locking fanatics in prison cells.
Would that therapy work for people who wear red hats and watch FOX NEWS 24-7 ?
Or how about the “Maddow muppets” who mindlessly followed Rachel down her Russia Russia Russia!!! conspiracy rabbit hole every single day for the past two years?
TBob, for the record, I don’t have cable. Rachel Maddow means nothing to me.
For the record, I don’t have cable either. But I know people who do… 😉
Peter. You must not have heard of CIA’s project MK Ultra. They actually did experiment with LSD as a truth serum, and to study its use on unwilling subjects. the results were catastrophic. I recommend you read up on this and ditch the idea. It would be inhumane and contrary to the Geneva Convention and probably a hundred other laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
P. Hill has shown us that he’s not the brightest bulb.
He also thinks that Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning are traitors.
Estovir, is this ‘you’ again????? Why can’t you use your name?????
What a nerdy loser!!!!!
And ‘yes’, Snowden and Manning ‘are’ traitors. We can’t let let low-level contractors make decisions about what the public should know.
According to P. Hill: “We can’t let let low-level contractors make decisions about what the public should know.”
Better to let high-level “criminals” like James Clapper (and others) decide?
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1103106683490852864
https://twitter.com/Thomas_Drake1/status/1103380149284818944
And I have no idea who “Estovir” is.
Anonymous, if you stand behind your comments, we should see your name. If you can’t post your name, then you obviously don’t stand behind your comments.
Only small-minded people would insist on a name.
One’s name isn’t important in this context.
“And ‘yes’, Snowden and Manning ‘are’ traitors. We can’t let let low-level contractors make decisions about what the public should know.” There is a procedure in place for whistle blowers that does not involve a data dump to the general public.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-edward-snowden-is-a-hero
Kurtz, these would be ‘willing’ subjects in the sense they would ‘know’ they are tripping. There would be counselors on hand supervising the therapy; ready to tranquilize anyone having a ‘bad trip’.
I wouldn’t dream of just lacing a prisoner’s food to see how they react. And I don’t think my comment even comes close to suggesting that. In fact, I’m not sure how you even concluded that from what I wrote above. It’s like you just wanted to ‘yell at me’.
Prolonged LSD use leads to brain damage and insanity. Heavy marijuana use is associated with psychotic breaks and schizophrenia.
This would be in violation of the Geneva convention. I do not think you could justify constantly sedating them with pharmacologic drugs like haloperidol like mentally ill patients, either, because there would be no underlying medical condition requiring it.
This reminds me of the movie, The Minority Report, in which society determines that the most humane way to house prisoners is to put them in an induced coma, regulating their brain waves, and storing them in capsules.
Karen, don’t get your drug information from old episodes of “Dragnet”.
LSD is being re-examined as a treatment for depression and terminal illness. There’s plenty to find on google. Surely ISIS fanatics could benefit. We don’t want them becoming suicide bombers. And it’s absurd that conservative Republicans are so down on drugs that they don’t even want radical muslims using LSD. ..Go figure..!
“LSD is being re-examined as a treatment for depression”
That LSD may help some depressives doesn’t mean it is good for all people or even all depressives. Chemotherapy might be good for cancer patients but I wouldn’t think they would be good for the general population.
But if you’re hooked on Radical Islam, that ‘is’ a cancer. The idea is to nudge fanatical minds past Radical Islam.
I’m talking about real therapy with real therapists. They would be officiating the LSD sessions. Guards would stay behind the scenes watching from camera.
Inmates could have snacks, refreshments and the Arab music of their choice. Arab music videos could play on big screen TVs. Anything to make the session a wonderful experience.
Let them have a good time; that’s the whole idea. They’ll reach a point where radical Islam seems very square. And that’s when they go home.
In your dream, P. Hill.
In your dreams, P. Hill.
P. Hill @ 11:26: “They’ll reach a point where radical Islam seems very square. And that’s when they go home.”
In your dreams, P. Hill. Leaving “babies” out of it, I agree with Allan’s comments at 11:28, below.
“I’m talking about real therapy with real therapists. They would be officiating the LSD sessions. Guards would stay behind the scenes watching from camera.”
Peter, somewhere along the line you seem to have adopted a dangerous outlook on humanity. Though I agree radical Islam is a cancer I don’t agree with such experimentation. The Nazi’s did it to the Jews and others. Remember Mengele? Is that how you wish Americans to act? Has your soul deteriorated to such a degree that you will not help protect babies already seperated from their mothers and let them be killed while you perform Mengele type experiments on people that apparently we both dislike?
I’m sorry, Alan. From now on I’ll avoid ever engaging with you. There’s no point!
Anything I say is twisted by you to score some stupid points in the Culture Wars. That’s your only concern: fighting the Culture Wars. In that regard, you’re a total waste of time.
Peter, avoid all you wish. Do you not understand the destruction to our own well being when we act in a fashion similar to Mengele? Involuntary testing on humans even those detestible humans? What was Mengele’s excuse? ‘They were going to die anyway.’ Is that how you believe the American culture should act?
With regard to the killing of babies. In former discussions I left out babies still inside the mother or unhealthy babies so that there were no lines left to be drawn. A living healthy baby was not something you were willing to protect by law.
peter, many of these detainees are not fanatics. they are enemies, maybe they are evil, or maybe they are just deeply committed soldiers of their radical faith and faction. they are enemies, not crazies. i personally don’t like calling jihaadists crazies. if we need to fight and kill them to defend America, ok, but don’t always be calling them insane. they’re generally not insane, just very committed. have some respect for the enemy, act according to law and treaty, and don’t go for the magic bullet. there are not magic bullets. darn sure LSD is not a magic cure for “fanaticism.”
i watch joe rogan too. people can volunteer for DMT and whatever psychadelics are under study. that’s fine by me. just keep it away from prisoners– especially political prisoners like those in camp x ray. the danger of misuse by government on them, and eventually on us, is too high. same thing goes for torture, while I’m at it.
i am also all for cutting lose any of those prisoners who were taliban in a general diplomatic settlement of the afghanistan mess. there’s a crazy idea yeah– close camp x ray,. wasn’t Obama supposed to do that>?
if they won’t drink booze as part of their faith, do you think they would be interested in dosing? i think not. now I could see them using narcotics but this lsd idea is really wacky. are you trippin?
Kurtz, when people think God wants them to become suicide bombers (massacring innocent bystanders) that’s a form of mental illness.
When people think God wants them to flog women, for showing the slightest flesh, that’s a form of mental illness.
When people think education should begin and end with only the Quran, they ‘need’ some major stimulus.
We can’t let these people come back to the west. And we can’t keep them in refugee camps for generations to come. Something has to be done and it needs to be creative.
LSD administered by sincere therapists could be very useful in changing their heads. The dosages can be kept to a manageable level. It’s not going to fry their heads. Not if it’s supervised by caring professionals.
To me this therapy seems more humane than imprisoning people for years or keeping them, and their children, in refugee camps.
The problem Peter is that you are engaging in experimenting on humans without consent. You have classified them as unworthy which is understandable but a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Did you ever hear of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment?
“Kurtz, when people think God wants them to become suicide bombers (massacring innocent bystanders) that’s a form of mental illness.”
PETER. You may be familiar with the Hebrew Scriptures, aka, the Old Testament. There was the “herem” or ban, that is to say, the genocide of Jerhico, Amalek, and others.
There was also the example of “Sampson” who killed Philistines, by sacrificing his own life.
Kamikaze pilots in WW2 were not considered fanatics, they were considered deeply altruistic patriots. One can think of other examples. Have you heard of Hollywood movies with a “suicide mission” like Lee Marvin in the Dirty Dozen? So, I guess it’s a matter of social perspective.
If not committed ideologues, I can also believe that suicide bombers are basically fools, suckers, manipulated by their sadistic and evil commanders, to do bad things, but I do not think they are per se, mentally ill. You are not a shrink and have no basis for this characterization.
“When people think God wants them to flog women, for showing the slightest flesh, that’s a form of mental illness.”
That’s not just ISIS that’s a lot of places in the world, some of which are our allies. Repressive? Sure. Mentallly ill? Probably not.
“When people think education should begin and end with only the Quran, they ‘need’ some major stimulus.”
Amish believe in focusing education to Scriptures, so do some ultra orthodox jews from what i hear, haredim. I am not going to assume they are all crazy and need lsd, that’s preposterous.
“We can’t let these people come back to the west.”
FINALLY WE ARE IN AGREEMENT! CHEERS
I correct myself, I guess they did consider kamikaze pilots fanatics. And people probably thought crazy too. I should have said, some people did not consider them that, it’s a matter of perspective.
“I guess they did consider kamikaze pilots fanatics. ”
Not totally. The kamikaze pilots that flew in the later missions had their cockpits welded shut and only enough gas to get them to where they were going. There were also Japanese planes out there to shoot down anyone that was flying the wrong way.
not yelling peter. i get the idea. but that would never work that way.
i am just pointing out LSD has a bad history when used by the government in conjunction with interrogation of prisoners. i find this abhorrent and i am a little surprised you suggest it. maybe somebody is spoofing you, i dont know.
right now, we’re at a good point in history, where decent, if not the best, health care is provided in american jails, some better than others, and that includes appropriate psychiatric medicines.
better than the bad old days, spooks tranq’ing and dosing people like lab rats
P. Hill says: March 12, 2019 at 12:14 PM
“FANATICS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH LSD”
Wow. Your true colors are shining through. Only a nutcase…
Yeah, it’s ‘you’, Estovir. What a loser!
Even when you’re absolutely wrong, you’re sure that you’re right, P.Hill. All I can do is shake my head.
When one explicitly joins a terrorist group, in whatever capacity, one (at least implicitly) renounces their respective citizenship, and thus should lose the rights and privileges associated.
Such people, particularly those who post pictures of their passport and say “Not going to need these anymore,” should, upon their return, be chucked from a helicopter a mile up into some desolate landfill.
Also as Carlin once suggested, maybe each execution can be broadcast on Pay-Per-View, to raise some additional tax revenue.
enigma made a legit point that this is not the law. they are committing crimes perhaps, not renouncing citizenship., i would oppose that notion. maybe tomorrow the democrats will decide the NRA is a terrorist group and say I’ve renounced my citizenship. i have heard them say worse things. we don’t need to go there. there are plenty of other remedies.
If Muthana and her group of animals didn’t get their ass kicked she’d be right back in the fray of things. She probably doesn’t want to face the survivors of the brutality she was part of.
Both Muthana and her father were notified in 2016 that her passport had been revoked and a determination made that she was not and never had been a U.S. citizen. Neither of them protested that determination at the time.
Interestingly, it was the Obama/Clinton State Department which originally revoked her passport and determined that she was not a citizen back in January 2016. Their research of the records at the time showed that her father’s diplomatic immunity was not officially ended until just after her birth, even though he had left his active participation in diplomatic work in September. While lots of folks are having fun accusing Trump in all this, they need to go back and put the blame or the praise where it belongs with the Obama Administration.
They also did not appear to have determined or sought her citizenship until trying to gain her return after joining a terrorist organization.
I would like to add, however, that her family’s attorney claimed that it was her family who reported her joining ISIS to American authorities. They do not appear to have supported her decision.
I suspect that all of this is because they want custody of their grandson and for him to reside in the US. The attorney stated that they assume that she will serve time if she returns to the US, which would mean her son would live with her family.
That would be great for the son. In a few years he could write on his college applications that his mother left the U.S. to be an ISIS bride; that he was born in the caliphate to an unknown ISIS fighter (because his mother was passed on as a “wife” to one short-lived fighter after the next), and then once ISIS was defeated, some left-wing nut of a Federal judge in San Francisco allowed his mother to return to the state’s. With a college essay like that, wow, every liberal college in the U.S. will be showering the kid with financial aid offers!
We already know her family produced a terrorist. What will they produce when they raise her son? Although they appear to not support her decision to join ISIS, they raised a daughter who had the moral discernment to believe it was a grand idea.
I think the son got the short end of the stick no matter what. There are no heroes for him. Poor little guy.
Sierra, thanks for the additional information. It makes one’s decision easier.
The citizens of 3rd world countries are willing do anything to live in 1st world nations.
These people male and female left the peace and security of a 1st world nation to live in a 3rd world nation and a war zone.
Most of these individuals are themselves children of immigrants. It seems their parents sacrificed for nothing leave their home countries and move to the west.
As for the (ISIS Brides) when are women responsible for their own decisions.
If they wanted an abortion or to transition to a different gender. The same people think they were too young to know the consequences of joining ISIS would support them in those decisions.
Why the hypocrisy.
Confusing sets of laws, Supreme Court decision and a poorly written Ammendment despite discussion from the halls of Congress stating the amendment applied only to slaves makes things very confusing. At best she was part of the fighting enemy we were at war with. What does that make her?
The law that was supposed to help freed slaves ended up being abused as a loophole to our immigration system. It is also gender discrimination as men do not have access to such a loophole.
It is time for Congress to do some real work and wrangle out these tough issues, instead of kicking the can down the road, or pandering to voting blocs.
Karen, you are absolutely right but nothing will get done until we have term limits and reduce the power of the federal government. Presently our legislators are more interested in remaining in Congress than in serving the nation. We shouldn’t let them be so cozy and we should be restricting their abilities to lobby and profit off of their decisions.
“Presently our legislators are more interested in remaining in Congress than in serving the nation.” I agree. We are so apathetic that we allow this to persist. Our politicians are not serving us, but too often their own interests.
Can we please end the chain migration fandango?
Right after we deport Melania’s parents.
Purity, I guess that means you don’t want any immigration what so ever.
This can be settled the old fashioned way. If it comes to that, we’re ready.
In the end, war is the extension of politics by other means.
The corollary is that politics is on some level inherently belligerent.
Carl Schmitt is recommended reading on why and how this will eventually be settled one way or another, by force
http://www.telospress.com/carl-schmitts-theory-of-the-partisan-and-the-stability-of-the-nation-state/
Why would we do that? They aren’t here in violation of the law. I realize partisan Democrats fancy anything to injure Trump is legitimate, but you’re all merely demonstrating that you have no value as civic actors and decent people should be protected from you.
This is absurd:
Uh, you have stated we should end “chain migration”. That is how Melania’s parents became citizens.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/nyregion/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html
If our laws were sane and implemented with conscientious dispatch, none of these three would have any claim to citizenship and the daughter in particular would be permanently debarred from entry.
Just curious. What are these “sane” laws which would have had that effect?
A sane law would say that anyone born in the United States or one of it’s abiding dependencies has a status derived from that of his parents. If the person is of legitimate birth and the status of the father exceeds that of the mother, the father’s status determines. In any other circumstance, the mother’s status determines. In most circumstances, you born here inherit the parental status. The exception would be as follows: should the parent in question be a settler-alien, the child is graced with the status denizen. Should the parent in question be a denizen, the child is graced with citizenship. The privileges and immunities of denizens and settler-aliens would be equivalent bar that a denizen could not lose his right of domicile without explicitly renouncing it; a temporary loss consequent to extradition proceedings is all he could suffer.
A sane law would also have it that only denizens and settler-aliens would have a franchise to apply for naturalization. It would also have it that you’re not eligible for naturalization until you have been a lawful and palpable resident of this country or its abiding dependencies for the majority of your natural life (with the proviso that if one is enrolled in the Armed Services, one is treated as a palpable resident no matter where one is stationed). It would say in addition that naturalization requires one pass a civics test given in English and that one sign a statement renouncing one’s previous citizenship, a statement to be mailed to that country’s consulate.
This woman’s parents were temporary residents derived from her father’s diplomatic posting. After he left the diplomatic service, they were just squatters. Were the law sane, she would have been granted temporary residency status at birth or deemed to be an illegal alien. Her parents should have been deported within days of his resignation from the Yemen foreign ministry. And if her mother wanted to apply for residency status – i.e. settler status – she should have had to submit to a written and oral examination in English, to a physical, and to a background check. Should she have passed, she would have been given a spot in a global queue and told to wait her turn for an invitation to enter. Which is to say she’d have been waiting in Yemen and her husband would have been their as well.
Didn’t she renounce her citizenship by giving aid to those who were, at the time, in active hostilities against the United States? Asking; don’t know the answer.
To renounce one’s citizenship from the USA, one must appear in person at an appropriate location and swear an oath. There’s no evidence she has done so. By your criteria of giving aid to those in active hostilities vs. the US. Many of those names being looked at by Mueller would qualify.
Do you sleep with Mueller? You sure got a lot of dope on his activities. Manafort was working with and for Ukraine, which if you unstuck your head where no light shines, you might (underline might) discover is at war with Russia.
Maybe Trump should just copy what your demigod Jesus Soetoro Obama did to 16 year old black Muslim American citizen Anwar Al-Awlaki, sans any judicial charge: incinerate with a drone strike.
It’s all for the chillun’, right?
Princess – You might want to dig a little deeper into Manafort’s Ukranian and Russian connections. You won’t conclude that Manafort was helping Ukraine beat back Russia but the other way around. There are more than one proxy wars where we are fighting soldiers and weaponry povided by those assisted by Manafort, Gates, Kuchner, et. al. I made no suggestion as to what to do with those wanting to return, only claiming they aren’t citizens isn’t likely a lawful answer.
The legal dilemma appears to be that the children of foreign diplomats born here are not citizens. Although he renounced his diplomatic status, it was not lifted until after her birth. The family was informed in 2016 that she was not a citizen. Her citizenship is in some question, although it may be legally resolved in her favor.
The question of her citizenship must be resolved, legally, before any other issue can be decided. If it is determined that she is a US citizen, then the laws must apply equally to her.
Citizenship cannot be stripped from a US citizen without due process. We first need to determine if she is a US citizen.
You appear to have misread Turley’s post. Accoding to him, the woman was born two months after her father renounced his citizenship, according to State Department records.
I saw that. There were also a few posts upstream indicating that although he renounced his diplomatic status, it was not officially revoked until after her birth.
I frankly do not know the legal status of her citizenship. They will have to fight that out in court. If she is a citizen, then she has the right of due process. We cannot proceed until the question of her citizenship is answered. This will likely take a while.
I feel sad for teenage girls lured into becoming ISIS brides. Do they have no idea what they are in for, or is this a self-hating, protracted suicide attempt? The ones who have their catharsis and snap out of it are in a self-inflicted mess. Many never get out alive.
The only thing I can think of to prevent this is better education. I don’t know what else to do.
I only read that the father renounced his diplomatic status at the time of her birth, not that he renounced his citizenship.
the first part of your point is legit. the thing about mueller is nonsense, but it does reinforce your point. prosecute them, exclude them, incarcerate them, hell you can execute them if there is a legal basis for all I care, but don’t make up law that they’ve renounced citizenship if they have not.
She should go back to the killing fields and fight. If she returns to the US, it will be a burden on the taxpayers to support her traitorous self for years in prison.
They made their own beds and it’s time for them to sleep.