President Donald Trump has caused another firestorm with a menacing statement to conservative outlet Breitbart that things will get “very bad, very bad” if his supporters among the military, police, and bikers are pushed too far. Once again, while one can come up with a non-threatening meaning, the President’s comments were widely interpreted as countenancing violence. These are the type of comments that are driving a deep wedge into the electorate with roughly half of the voters saying that they are resolved to vote against the President.
In an interview with Breitbart published on Wednesday, Trump stated “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.”
It is certainly possible to argue that Trump was saying that left groups like Antifa are threatening people and they could push people too far. He could also argue that he was speaking purely politically that the groups are going to rise up in the polls to reject the rhetoric and policies on the left. However, that is not what was conveyed when you cite three groups who raise the image of physical force. Indeed, given the role of the police, military and bikers in the news in Venezuela, it was a uniquely poor time to make such a statement.
What do you think?
I want in….D’oh!
Professor Turley conflates “biker” with “gang member” when he comments on Trump’s statement that “I have the support of the police, the support of the military, [and] the support of the Bikers for Trump.” Professor Turley wrote that “Indeed, given the role of the police, military and bikers in the news in Venezuela, it was a uniquely poor time to make such a statement.” This statement, however, is inapposite to the motorcycle gangs known as “colectivos,” who are the enforcers for Venezuela’s authoritarian leader, Nicolás Maduro.
Professor Turley’s conflation of “biker” and “gang member” based on his own political bias reminds me of a joke:
A Harley biker was riding by the Zoo in Washington, DC when he noticed a little girl leaning into the lion’s cage, while the girl’s parents, wearing “Beto for President” T-shirts, were lost in conversation with themselves.
Suddenly, the lion grabbed the girl by the cuff of her jacket and tried to pull her inside the cage. As the parents screamed in anguish, the biker jumped off his Harley, ran to the cage and hit the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch.
Whimpering from the pain, the lion instantly released the girl, and the biker quickly brought her to her terrified parents, who thanked him endlessly.
A reporter nearby had watched the whole event. The reporter, addressing the Harley rider, said, “Sir, this was the most gallant and brave thing I’ve seen a man do in my whole life.”
The Harley rider replied, ‘Why, it was nothing, really, the lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger and acted instinctively as I felt right.”
The reporter said, ‘Well, I’ll make sure this won’t go unnoticed. I’m a journalist, and tomorrow’s paper will have this story on the front page, and I’m going to share it with my colleagues at other news organizations. So, what do you do for a living and what political affiliations do you have?”
The biker replied, ‘I’m a U.S. Marine, a Republican, and I was on my way to a MAGA rally.”
The journalist left.
The following morning the biker found that his story was featured in such media outlets as The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine, CNN, and MSNBC. The headline read:
“MAGA MOTORCYCLE GANG MEMBER ASSAULTS AFRICAN IMMIGRANT AND STEALS HIS LUNCH.”
You’re an idiot.
And you, of course, are a typical articulate advocate of the Left. Watch your knuckles scraping all that ground.
mespo727272 says: March 15, 2019 at 6:59 AM
I’m a hardcore reality supporter. He obviously isn’t. I’m not an ally of every fan in the stadium. Getting the ticket is too easy for that.
jamescfeldman says: March 15, 2019 at 9:52 PM
The biker replied, ‘I’m a U.S. Marine, a Republican, and I was on my way to a MAGA rally.”
mespo727272 says: March 16, 2019 at 6:09 AM
JamesFeldman:
So funny because it rings so true.
So the hardcore reality supporter requires an imaginary act of valor by a fictitious U.S. Marine to wring the truthiness out of Trump and his bone spurs. So funny.
JamesFeldman:
So funny because it rings so true. I know lots of bikers. Good people and I’d rather have one of them in my corner than some Birkenstock-wearing, whispy-goateed-beta-male-Ivy Leager-pushing-a-stroller-while-being-berated-by-his-pussy-hat-wearing-wife anytime. Feminized America sucks.
You mean the drug dealing murder gangs or the poseur docs and attorneys with chained wallets and head scarves? They’re both usually grey haired pot bellied slobs but the first group is packing and will use it.
Stereotype much? For you ignorance must be bliss. There are lots of professional and entrepreneurial class bikers but hey why burst your bubblehead. Look up “criminal gang” and contrast it with the term “motorcycle riders.” Might educate you though I have my doubts.
Ever read your own sentences at all?
Ironic much? Read your preceding post.
Uh, I mentioned the poseurs who can afford Harleys. They aren’t going to fight anyone. They just like looking tough and can afford the accessories.
I’d invite you a party of these “poseurs” who won’t mix it up but we don’t supply extra pants with the party favors for those who can’t quite keep it together. I wouldn’t underestimate these guys either most of whom were college athletes or former military and have the intellectual and physical firepower to run circles around any of the new candyass beta males.
You mean they’ll sue me if I touch them.
Nervous fear is a bad look on you.
And imaginary acts of valor by fictitious U. S. Marines are your dress uniform.
Now show me the ferocity, Counselor. I’ll try not to blink nor flinch.
What kind of Alfie imitates Putin’s Night Wolves? Forget about Maduros Colectivos. Putin has Bikers. So Trump has to have Bikers, too. Putin’s Bikers have opened a chapter in Miami the members of which are said to be Billionaires. Huh? Whaaaa? Yes. Billionaire Bikers for Putin and Trump. You can’t make this stuff up.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-biker-threat-came-from-the-putin-playbook-but-tweet-deleted-after-mosque-massacre
19 hours ago … Trump told Breitbart there could be biker violence against leftists. Sounded even worse after New Zealand mosque massacre manifesto called …
Correction: Millionaires–not Billionaires. Here’s the excerpt from the article linked above:
The pro-Putin bikers have been spreading their wings all over the European Union and also finding friends in the mostly Trumpist Russian community of Miami Florida millionaires. The team of Transparency International researched the connection between a group called the “Alfa Anticriminal” organization made up of Russian special service officers, the group’s founder Svyatoslav Mangushev, and a biker club he founded in Miami, called after Russian special forces, Spetsnaz LE [for Law Enforcement] Spetsnaz.
Mespo is so busy puffing out his hackles and quaffing his scotch that he sees no contradiction in stating:
“…some Birkenstock-wearing, whispy-goateed-beta-male-Ivy Leager-pushing-a-stroller-while-being-berated-by-his-pussy-hat-wearing-wife anytime.”
and then asking someone else if they, “stereotype much?”
Soon he’ll quote something from Homer to try to reestablish some credibility.
“D’oh”
i know some doctors and lawyers who are packing too. And would use it. Under lawful circumstances, of course.
mespo………✔
“D’oh”
Wow. Did you read this before you clicked send? BTW, I am a moderate. Do you want to insult me, too, JUST because I don’t subscribe to your brand of “lazy journalism”?
By Trump’s statement most of America has to live thru more humiliation from a man who is clearly not mentally fit for office. He has shown psychological impairment again and again with statements that no known patriot would ever condone. He more he has fear mongered and escalated his speech the more he is being shown to be hiding something that he knows would be the end of the game. So now he is using speech that can be said is domestic terrorism. Cohen could have lied about other things, but when he said Trump would not leave or to do anything to keep office, maybe we should have listened a little more closely.
You say “He has shown psychological impairment again and again with statements that no known patriot would ever condone”
I say, you are not a psychologist or doctor of any kind, nor have you examined him, so you are unqualified to make such an opinion
but you are entitled to speak your opinion and psychologize, and I am equally entitled if also equally unqualified. my armchair shrink opinion, is “YOU’RE PROJECTING”
What would Mr. Kurtz say if Obama said something similar? Say he said he has the muslim brotherhood and street gangs and the new black panthers have his back. You don’t have to be a doctor to see that the man is running around acting more nuts than the day before. I will you well with your ongoing battle with reality.
Fish…..Good god son. Were you awake during the Obama admi ?
“The police acted stupidly”…What kind of attorney, much les President who supposedly knows the law indicts the Boston police force like that with no due process.
That was his signal to the ghetto. Pitiful And look how the black community declined during his reign!
Ask any black conservative who now has joined Blexit.
Then of course he suspended due process for young college men accused of rape. Thst was a national project of his. Due process!!
Fish….of course the worst, or maybe the best for you liberals, was when Pres. Obama was on Jay Leno’s Tonight Show in March 2009.
He was talking about how awful he was in some sport. He said he was so bad thst he looked like he was in Special Olympics or something.
He laughed, Jay laughed, the audience laughed. Hilarious, right?
Making fun of Down Syndrome children. What a guy
Cindy Bragg…you’re reaching. It shows. That was the best you could come up with considering that horrible creature that spews vile rants daily? So sad. Surely you can do better? But, I doubt it.
what a silly response. Equating police and military members to gangs, Black Panthers, and the Muslim Brotherhood is an example of the anti-Trump mentality that does not think or discern on its own, but rather joins in extreme and mindless crowd-hyping. Since Obama actually DID take photos with Louis Farrakhen and members of the Muslim brotherhood, as well as sit and nod his head during Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s spewing of anti-white hatred, for more than 20 years, are you going to conclude that Obama was “mentally impaired” or unfit as well?
lin…..remember Obama’s friends, the New Black Panthers as they stood out front of a Philadelphia polling place Nov 2008, and verbally intimidated elderly white voters!
Then, one of those guys went in the street yelling ” we’re gonna kill white babies”
The New Black Panthers weren’t Obama’s “friends”.
Anon…….by friends I mean they were not his enemies. He never called them out or denounced them.for intimidsting white old people. And they were acting as his surrogates. Wouldn’t one expect that…….Trump is supoosed to publicly denounce White Supremacists even though he has no ties to them and detests them.
Trump integrated Haute Societe in Palm Beach, by the way. Great story!
Trump doesn’t detest his voters. Check yourself. You are reaching and it’s embarrassing to read.
Anon……Obama had his DOJ dismiss the case against the New Black Panthers when he became President. One high ranking DOJ officiall resigned because of O’s obvious bias against the old white people. Their voting rights had been violated. Obama didn’t see it that way. Racist jerk.
Impeach Obama. Impeach Hillary. Impeach Pelosi for refusing to Impeach Trump.
Turley says it’s your constitutional duty to impeach whomsoever you want to impeach for whatsoever unreason you want to impeach whosoever. And you only have twelve months left to get it done. So hop to it, you Trumpers, you.
The more Democrats you impeach for refusing to impeach Trump and the sooner you do so, the sooner you get to impeaching every last Republican who refuses to impeach Trump. What’s going on? What’s going on?
It’s like you just make stuff up as you go along. Are you ill?
“So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said when asked by Breitbart News Washington Political Editor Matthew Boyle about how the left is fighting hard. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay? I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. But the left plays it cuter and tougher. Like with all the nonsense that they do in Congress … with all this invest[igations]—that’s all they want to do is –you know, they do things that are nasty. Republicans never played this.”
lin says: March 15, 2019 at 7:47 PM
“what a silly response. Equating police and military members to gangs, Black Panthers, and the Muslim Brotherhood . . .”
Trump claimed the support of the police, the military and a motorcycle club as a defense against investigations being conducted by House Democrats. What does “lin” think Trump means by opposing the investigations conducted by Congressional Democrats with such supposed Trump supporters as the police, the military and a motorcycle club? What does Trump think he can actually do with the police, the military and a motorcycle club to counter the investigations being conducted by House Democrats? One suppose that Bikers for Trump might be ready rumble with House Democrats if Trump asks them to do so. But does “lin” seriously think that the police and the military are ready to rumble with House Democrats if Trump asks them to do so. I doubt that even Trump seriously thinks that. But Trump might be saying it in the hope of getting more of his supporters to be more like Bikers for Trump, who may very well be ready to rumble with House Democrats as well as the police and the military, who will undoubtedly defend House Democrats against Bikers for Trump and like-minded paramilitary forces.
I don’t know because he didn’t say any such thing, now did he.
Anyways, I am a lot more positive about Farrakhan that most folks, not one of those people who gets all exercised about the NOI, in case you missed my previous comments about them.
As for Muslim Brotherhood, it’s called a terrorist organization by the US so it’s unlikely he would have said any such thing, and common thugs like the bloods and crips are useless for anything besides the usual selling dope and so forth.
OMC however, have a much higher level of organization. I am not a member nor a fan, but, who knows, in a civil conflagration they would probably provide welcome muscle to the side which won them over.
hey did you know Jesse Ventura was a card carrying member of the Mongols MC? He said so. I like Jesse.
It doesn’t take a psychologist to read this guy. He’s as transparent as my grandson and more self centered. If you can’t read him, there’s something wrong with you.
A healthy ego is both transparent and self-centered, albeit compensatory at times. It is the machiavellian and conniving snakes in society that are the most poisonous and dangerous.
A healthy ego doesn’t require constant attention or compulsive lying and bragging about BS.
Something’s wrong with your ability evaluate other humans and it’s leaving vulnerable to being conned and swindled. He’s already got you to want to pay for the “wall” he said the Mexicans would pay for.
Trump said, “I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. But the left plays it cuter and tougher. Like with all the nonsense that they do in Congress … with all this invest[igations]—that’s all they want to do is –you know, they do things that are nasty.”
lin says: March 15, 2019 at 7:53 PM
“A healthy ego is both transparent and self-centered, albeit compensatory at times. It is the machiavellian and conniving snakes in society that are the most poisonous and dangerous.”
Does a healthy ego, transparently self-centered, albeit compensatory at times, exhort the police, the military, a motorcycle club and tough guys on the right to get ready to rumble with House Democrats who are investigating that transparently self-centered, healthy ego? Or might that sort of compensatory exhortation be more likely expected from a Machiavellian, conniving snake, who may well be the most poisonous and dangerous president this country has ever yet had?
It is simply not possible to reconcile Trump supporters with those who are not. We cannot have respectful discourse; we cannot have reasoned debate; we cannot compromise with each other. I tis impossible to respect Trump if you are in favor of the working person rather than the CEO. It is impossible to overlook the damage done to the national debt and the wages/security of the average worker. On the other hand, if you are in the stock market and have money, Trump is your man. I would be everlastingly grateful if someone could tell me how those two positions can be reconciled. I can respect you as a human being, but I refuse to respect a philosophy which I believe will lead to ruin. So, if one agrees with Trump’s statement, there is no possible meeting ground between us. Or anyone else. You either on board with the guy, or you are not. Either way, it’s a bummer.
“I tis impossible to respect Trump if you are in favor of the working person rather than the CEO”
****************************
Pay no attention to the record low unemployment among the working class across all racial groups or the rising wages in a booming economy. Ignore the low fuel prices, stable inflation and expansion of industry. Btw what state do you live in, Chuck? Denial?
More jobs were created in Obama’s last 2 years than Trump’s 1st 2, and he handed Fatso the 2nd longest expansion period in our history and about to become the longest. Even with tax cut goose, which our kids will be paying for and which will peter out over the next year, we haven’t met the promised growth rate.
Promise not kept.
We can still thank Obama for all of this. ALL OF THIS. This was already happening, but taken right out of the Republican playbook. Think for yourself or don’t think.
And I would say, Mr. Kurtz, that it is YOU and your cohorts that are the ones in denial, deflecting and projecting. You use big words, your kind, but you don’t speak truths. You speak as though you are sweating and I can read that loud and clear.
This pisses off 1/2 of the voters? Beeg deal! 1/2 of the voters didn’t vote for him to begin with. It’s the other 1/2 that are not pissed off that you should worry about.
Post you CV, Fishy. You can redact your name. Do it in the interests of preventing youngsters from attending schools that so clearly fail to prepare students to argue or diagnose.
Get a warrant from a Judge, Counselor. Be sure to argue probable cause for infringing FishWings’ First and Fourth Amendment rights. Once the precedent is set, we can all find out what Trump’s SAT scores were. Won’t that be fun?
Mr. Turley:
he’s being overt. You, on the other hand, have been covert about excusing and ‘explaining’ his anti-democratic efforts in recent months probably in hopes of a plum appointment. Now that he’s being recognized as the poster-boy of white nationalist murderers worldwide, I suggest you repent.
lol OH REPENT PROFESSOR TURLEY THE DAY OF JUDGMENT IS NIGH!
Trump is speaking the truth his supporters already know: we are in the middle of a long, slow, not-so-silent coup. They protected their candidate Hillary from her BLATANT crimes and concocted a scheme to illegally target Trump and his team to first derail his candidacy and then to end his Presidency. This is blazingly obvious to both his knowledgeable supporters and those less so.
That Turley doesn’t even acknowledge and then discuss this is a mark against him and this blog. The Prof is a kind man, but also clueless at times.
Like the era of the late Roman Republic, the opposing sides are engaged in “legal” and “illegal” political(and real life combat) with each other. Each side one upping the other until the breaking point is reached. In this latest round of one-up-man-ship, Hillary and Obama tore the law and Constitution to threads. The many details of their illegal actions are damning for those who have eyes to see. We are in a cold civil war now.
The only solution would be for the law to be restored, but that requires good men to both prosecute the law and judges to ensure justice in a transparent way.
The first step is for Trump to declassify EVERYTHING so that all can see with their own eyes what has happened. He has this power, but has been waiting for the Mueller investigation to end so that he is not seen as tampering with the process. But the Mueller investigation is designed to run out the clock on Trump’s Presidency. Trump needs to act now.
ivan 👍
“Crazy Abe” Lincoln was a brutal dictator who criminally and treasonous suspended the U.S. Constitution while slavery should have been eliminated through the constitutional use of the tools of freedom, free enterprise and free markets: advocacy by freedom of speech, boycotts and divestiture. “Crazy Abe” illegally denied constitutional secession, conducted an unconstitutional and undeclared war. attacked a sovereign foreign nation, confiscated private property, conducted illegal and unconstitutional mass illegal immigration by illegal aliens as freed slaves whose prior status was “property,” suspended Habeas Corpus, only to have his successors forcibly impose corruptly and improperly ratified “Reconstruction Amendments” on America with a gun to the heads of American under the duress of post-war military occupation – not a condition conducive to amendment, legislation or even rational and objective contemplation and debate.
“Crazy Abe” Lincoln – no friend of the U.S. Constitution.
___________________
“The Lincoln Administration and Arbitrary Arrests: A Reconsideration”
– Mark E. Neely, Jr.
The apologetic tone taken by James G. Randall and other writers on the problem of arbitrary arrests in the North during the Civil War has always seemed to me to be curiously at odds with the tone Abraham Lincoln himself took. He did not apologize. In his public letter of June 12, 1863, to Erastus Corning and others, Lincoln said with characteristic toughness: “… the time [is] not unlikely to come when I shall be blamed for having made too few arrests rather than too many.” He argued that the Confederate States, when they seceded, had been counting on being able to keep “on foot amongst us a most efficient corps of spies, informers, supplyers, and aiders and abettors of their cause” under “cover of ‘Liberty of speech’ ‘Liberty of the press’ and ‘Habeas corpus.'” Nicolay and Hay, who were not given to overstatement, noted that “few of the President’s state papers … produced a stronger impression upon the public mind than this.” [1]
Little wonder. Elsewhere in the letter, the president used even stronger language, saying that he could never:
appreciate the danger … that the American people will, by means of military arrests during the rebellion, lose the right of public discussion, the liberty of speech and the press, the law of evidence, trail by jury, and Habeas Corpus, throughout the indefinite peaceful future … any more than I am able to believe that a man could contract so strong an appetite for emetics during temporary illness, as to persist in feeding upon them through the remainder of his healthful life. [2]
Crazy Abe saved the Republic; everything else is just noise.
If only he had hung Lee for treason perhaps some of this Southern aggreivement would have died with him.
If he’d have hung Lee for treason then the guerilla warfare plan would have been activated and the whole surrender and war would have failed of its essential purpose.
So those who today who worship the glorious Union should thank Lee. Without Lee’s help, no clear ending to the war, and maybe a long drawn out conflict like Ireland / Northern Ireland.
Thanks, Mr. Kurtz, for edifying this simpleton. I would have done it but was in deposition all day. REL saved many men by counseling against a guerilla war. That would take some effort to know that. YNOT is effortless.
Too bad he did not put that wisdom to use prior to the southern rebellion.
YNOT:
“Too bad he did not put that wisdom to use prior to the southern rebellion.”
************************
Of course, he did but to know that you,d have to have opened a book. Lee was the most famous and accomplished soldier of his era BEFORE the Civil War. His heroics during the Mexican America War were legendary. Lincoln offered him the command of the Union forces but he declined.
On a personal note, I don’t mind an acerbic opponent but I can’t stand an uneducated one. Are you really a sorta bright 10th grader?
In fact, the CSA engaged in constitutional secession, not insurrection or rebellion. Lincoln had no constitutional authority to militarily oppose the secession of the CSA. Lincoln illegally and unconstitutionally attacked a sovereign foreign nation as a violent, tyrannical and criminal dictator.
West Virginia, Britain (Brexit), Catalan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, American Colonies and every nation in the former Soviet Union availed their states of their natural and God-given right to secession.
It is preposterous to propose that the nation that seceded from the British Empire did not uphold and allow secession.
Among other incorrect statements here, God has not granted anyone any rights anywhere that we know of. If they are universal, as implied, they would have existed since our days on an African savannah.
You’re absolutely brilliant. Let me try this one on you.
“Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?”
Perhaps you’ve encountered these references in the Declaration of Independence:
– The “laws of nature and of nature’s God” entitle the United States to independence.
– Men are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.”
– Congress appeals “to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions.”
– The signers, “with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence,” pledge to each other their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor.
______________________
You may find this edifying:
The term “nature’s God” refers to that which responsible for human (and the rest of) nature being what it is. It is a way of speaking of God insofar as God is knowable by human reason. In other words, our minds, unassisted by divine revelation, can figure out that there is such a thing as human nature, and that there are laws or rules that we must follow if we are to live justly and well. Reason can see that if we violate those laws, we will suffer such evils as death, slavery, or misery. A New England preacher explained the concept in this way: “The law of nature (or those rules of behavior which the Nature God has given men, . . . fit and necessary to the welfare of mankind) is the law and will of the God of nature, which all men are obliged to obey. . . . The law of nature, which is the Constitution of the God of nature, is universally obliging. It varies not with men’s humors or interests, but is immutable as the relations of things.”
– Abraham Williams, Election Sermon, Boston 1762
I understand that there are people, including our founders who believe that our rights have existed Platonically since our beginnings. However, there is no evidence for this belief and our ancestors going back hundreds of thousands of years would have no idea what you are talking about, nor would they enjoyed these rights. While other societies going way back in our past may have had similar codes for behavior as our rights, those we enjoy today were developed over hundreds of years of civilized advancement with a crowning effort in 1776. Of course, claiming to only be God’s vessel is a tried and true back door heavenly endorsement effort, and sure enough our founders used that trick in their documents. They alone, with those humans who went before deserve the real credit. God had nothing to do with it, or if he did, he left the building during Stalin and Hitler.
You’re a veritable plethora of genius and splendor;
alternatively, a vast realm of vacuity in the face of facts.
Thanks for reading.
So you’re saying someone changed “Crazy Abe’s” mind?
Thats the sort of thing a pencil necked geek from antifa would say. Like, one of those low-test lumpen losers dressed in black, maybe a pasty faced punk with dreadlocks, with a tatt of Che on his back and tracks on his skinny, weak arms, rotten teeth, smell like an ashtray.
Surely, you’re not one of them, are you Ynot? I doubt most of them can even type.
It is called justice, nice Fred Blassy impersonation though.
“It is called justice, nice Fred Blassy impersonation though.”
************************
Mercy is what Lee got from Grant under the General Amnesty. On the scale of human virtues, mercy trumps justice. Mutual respect is up there, too. Maybe too noble for you to understand.
Do you know how many monuments have been erected memorializing President Grant?…for winning the Civil War and forgiving the enemy to begin the healing process of our nation..
“The ends justify the means” does not comport with a lawful culture. In fact, it engenders an unlawful culture that inch by inevitable inch slides down that proverbial slope to a point where the “law” is merely an inconvenience(to be ignored when it gets in your way) or a hammer to bludgeon your opponents…kind of like where we are right now.
Ivan – you are so correct! The rule of law is nowhere to be found these days.
“The ends justify the means” does not comport with a lawful culture.
****************************
And categorical statements can be safely relied upon as being wrong in most instances. When the ends are great enough — like survival — the ends do justify the means.
I think it was Mayor Daley who said, ‘If the ends don’t justify the means, what does?”
Smart guy.
I can see that sophistry is your thing.
It is you that stated categorically: “Crazy Abe saved the Republic; everything else is just noise.” I responded that the “ends didn’t justify the means.” Rather than engage in a substantive debate you look for an out and accuse me of doing exactly what you’re doing. That’s the way things go these days. You don’t have the smarts to actually engage.
Ivan:
You don’t have the smarts to actually engage.
***************************
I long for the day when you realize that a counter-example that devastates your feeble argument is “engaging.” You might say “overwhelming” since under what circumstances wouldn’t survival justify any means? You obviously don’t know, so as I told another mush brain on another thread: those sharp things flying completely unimpeded over your head are my points.
Is English your second language?
The question is, should the republic have been saved at the expense of the Constitution – which begs the question, was it proper and righteous for the U.S. to secede from the British Empire; should the British Empire have been saved and America never created? It seems to me that the dominion of the Constitution must prevail lest it give over to antithetical, anathematic dictatorship, and once the genie is allowed out of that bottle, can it ever be put back in? Secession is not precluded by the Constitution. America, during “Crazy Abe’s” “Reign of Terror,” was in a condition of secession not rebellion, insurrection or war. Lincoln had no constitutional authority in a condition of non-precluded and constitutional secession. Shall the state compel a wife to remain with a disagreeable and violent husband – irreconcilable differences? There was nothing physically or intrinsically erroneous about secession. Secession was innocuous, natural evolution. Slavery could have been eliminated at any time by Americans through the constitutional use of the tools of freedom, free enterprise and free markets: advocacy by freedom of speech, boycotts and divestiture. As fate would have it, “Crazy Abe” was the catalyst for the reinstatement of the dictatorship, not of the monarchy but of the proletariat, Lincoln having had associations and consultations with communists and associates of Marx fleeing prosecution in Germany ending up in New York, Illinois, etc. Since Lincoln, the Constitution and Bill of Rights have been virtually nullified. Look around you at the signs of central planning, control of the means of production (i.e. unconstitutional regulation), redistribution of wealth and social engineering.
Only interpreted that way by the antifadahs etc of the extreme left and people who believe in, preach, teach and support violence like Comrade Pelosillyni and Comrade Bloody Chuck Schumer. Most Constitutional Citizens do not belong to that belief system.
TRUMP’S NEW STRATEGY:
PRETEND THE WALL IS ALREADY UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Why did Trump invest so much in this one vote, when he always had the option of a “VETO!” to render its outcome moot?
Well, for one thing, a large congressional rebuke on this could weaken his legal stance. Multiple lawsuits underway argue that Trump’s national emergency violated the Constitution by using the emergency to secure funds Congress had explicitly denied him. Senate Republicans have now reiterated Congress’s opposition to funding the wall.
But there’s another plausible explanation for Trump’s rage about this vote: It’s rooted in the same impulse that leads him to keep claiming the wall is currently being built, when it isn’t.
As Trump gears up for his reelection campaign, his aides have been instructing his followers to bellow “Finish the wall!” rather than “Build the wall!” Trump is extremely sensitive to the nuances of what is chanted at his rallies. As Trump himself recently put it: “The chant now should be ‘Finish the wall’ instead of ‘Build the wall,’ because we’re building a lot of wall.”
We actually aren’t. But all this is a reminder of how deeply entangled the wall is with Trump’s belief that his hold on his followers depends on creating the impression that he’s winning everywhere and that he’s perpetually taking control of events.
Crucial to maintaining this impression throughout has been Trump’s insistence that he has bent his whole party to his will on “border security.” (Please remember: Republicans didn’t fund his wall when they held both houses of Congress.) During the government shutdown, news reports indicated that Republicans were splintering, and Trump raged that “there is GREAT unity” on “Strong Border Security,” despite the “Fake News Media” reporting otherwise. But Trump’s capital-letter tweets couldn’t make that true, and he caved. The declaration of the national emergency after that, similarly, was all about projecting action and control.
Now Trump’s command that Republicans see their national emergency vote as one about border security failed. We’ve learned this came after extensive browbeating, including the threat to unleash the anger of Trump voters. But the national emergency is deeply unpopular, and the legal arguments for it are deeply absurd. In the face of that threat, as frightening as it was, reality proved overwhelming.
Trump will do his “VETO!,” and the national emergency will continue. But the wall still faces extensive legal obstacles, and it still isn’t being built. It’s hard to say whether this will ultimately cost Trump with his supporters. But judging by all his behind-the-scenes raging to keep Republicans in line, he certainly seems to think something is amiss.
Edited from: “Trump Rages As Fresh Signs Of His Weakness Emerge”
Today’s WASHINGTON POST
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According to this, Donald Trump seeks to promote an outright lie by pretending the wall is already under construction. Supporters are instructed to chant, “Finish the wall!” instead of “Build the wall!”.
Apparently Trump believes the public can be fooled or confused by this strategy. Hopefully they will think Republicans funded the wall while they still controlled Congress. ‘But Democrats cut-off funding’. That didn’t really happen but the narrative might find traction among less savvy consumers of news. As usual Trump presumes that right-wing media will do its part in promoting this lie.
oh look. The SPLC that every day calls trump a fascist just fired its founder, Morris Dees, for allegedly harassing women and people of color workers at the SPLC.
Took them decades and 6 figure a year salaries before they did it, too, but, um, I guess Mr Cohen is saying better late then never?
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-splc-morris-dees-20190314-story.html
He is preparing his Brownshirts in case he loses or is impeached. It’s unpleasant to contemplate but not difficult to see. Incidentally, here he is deploying a longstanding rhetorical tactic of the right wing, which is to falsely suggest that the menace of illegitimate violence is coming from the left. This is how the right wing has always tried to put the left on the rhetorical defensive so that real offensive – and violent – right-wing military, paramilitary, and police crimes and other violations of law can be presented as defensive in character (for no one disagrees, nor does the law, that defensive violence is justified while offensive violence is not). This trick often involves the media, which can usually be relied upon to present the same inversion of truth. A sample instance of this kind of large-scale gaslighting just unfolded in Venezuela when right-wing forces tried to ram a convoy of “humanitarian aid” through the border but were stopped by the Venezuelan military, whereupon one of the trucks was set on fire by those same right-wing forces and yet the fire was widely reported to have been started by those on Maduro’s side, a completely false account of what had happened which was only later revealed to be in error. The technique also often involves the government passively or actively creating a false impression of where violence is coming from or is about to come from, say, by suppressing information about right-wing violence that it has no trouble attributing to the left. The Southern Poverty Law Center will tell you about the rest. But the same “we’re under attack” rhetorical device is deployed everywhere on the right, e.g. David Horowitz claiming that the left is trying to destroy Christianity. Thinking people cannot afford to be fooled by this stuff this time around. There is too much at stake.
Ah ! I almost forgot the SPLC. But Wortman reminds me.
Newsflash, SPLC fires Morris Dees, its founder, over allegations that he harassed women and people of color working at SPLC.
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-splc-morris-dees-20190314-story.html
IMAGINE THAT. a CIVIL RIGHTS CRUSADER WHO IS A LYING HYPOCRITE.
AND IT TOOK COHEN AND COMPANY (SPLC’S top dog) DECADES TO OUST HIM
COUNT UP THE MILLIONS HE WAS PAID OVER THE YEARS 6 FIGURES A YEAR SEE THE FORM 990S
oh that SPLC. Gotta love em. Separating fools from their money every day in the name of poverty. LOL
Since you said He you are referring to Comrade Schumer of course. You also referenced thinking people. There are none in the classless society of socialism since The Colective is not allowed to think. Otherwise with that ommission well written description of the War Monger Party falsely known as Democrats
Both elected officials and their masters in the deep state are murderous gangsters. The US has unimaginable stockpiles of weapons. It is the arms dealer to the world, many times over (including groups the US designates as terrorist organizations). We arm every side of every conflict. We think nothing of killing millions of people in Yemen along side our good friends, Saudi Arabia. We want Venezuela’s oil and we are simply going to take it if we can. USGinc. is threatening to murder or otherwise rid Venezuela of it’s elected president. Neither US nor international law is used to bring the powerful to justice, to stop their gangsterism. They simply murder, torture, coup, etc. at will.
Having a president threaten US citizens with violence is perfectly “normal” at this time in history. That’s what “leadership” is about in our time. However, we should be aware that our “leaders” are trying to gin up violence among citizens as a tactic of control over the populace. This is necessary so that we do not fall for their tactic. They want people to be violent towards each other because a divided people will be easily controlled by the powerful.
As a nation, we face overwhelming problems, problems which I am not certain we can remedy. But one thing I am certain of is this– to even have a chance in addressing these problems, we must all work together. This includes bikers, the police, the military, hippies, working stiffs, nerds–literally everyone of good will. We need to stop falling for divide and conquer and start pulling together. Yes, the govt. does send in violent people to disrupt people trying to work together. This will continue to happen. If we aren’t stupid enough to keep falling for that tactic and we keep helping one another, we may stand some chance of survival.
To believe in Trump’s and the Democrats’ and the deep state’s violence is to be a slave of the powerful. If you have the wish to be a slave, you will follow these calls to violence. If you want to live a good life, choose to help and work with others for the common good.
Truer words were never spoken. You just can’t stand the truth.
“What do you think?”
I think we should listen to the Medical Professionals regarding this mans possible mental status. And I think if we did the right thing, in any event we’d end up screwed again.m Hence the stagnation and dysfunction……..
and The AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc. of Virginia Board of Directors confirmed to Donald J Trump that USDollars 35 Billion HELD BY THE U.S DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY – COMPTROLLER OF THE TREASURY is readily available for ” OUR ESTABLISHED BORDERS ” which includes Our Southern Border Wall requirements forthwith. /s/ Sole Principal / Shareholder Leo Emil Wanta http://eagleonetowanta.com
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6a2_1388943553
Thank you for caring for Our Great Nation _ America, Once a Constitutional Republic for ALL FELLOW AMERICANS.
Dream on.
There’s not enough treated water along the stretch from Nogales to Gadsden Arizona to mix grout for binding the prefabricated wall sections together unless they truck that water in, in which case they’ll need to build a road or a railroad for the water supply. They’re probably going to need a railroad for the prefab wall sections, anyhow. Whatever. It’s a thoroughly predictable boondoggle that Trump probably never had any serious intention of building. If any president ever knew the limitations of concrete as a construction material, it ought to be Trump. He’s supposed to know.
It’s going to be steel.
Dec. 2, 2015: At a rally in Virginia, a young boy asked him, “What are the walls going to be made out of?” Trump replied, “I’ll tell you what it’s going to be made of. It’s going to be made of hardened concrete, and it’s going to be made out of rebar and steel. And — you know, it’s so easy, that’s what I do.”
Jan. 18, 2016: “They have no idea how to do it. Whereas with me it’s easy — that’s like easy. When you build buildings like I build buildings, believe me, walls are easy. No windows, no nothing — precast concrete going very high.”
Aug. 11, 2016: “The politicians would come up to me, and they’d say, ‘You know, Donald, you can’t build the wall.’ I said, ‘You have to be kidding. You have to be kidding. Concrete plank, you have to be kidding. Precast, precast, right? Boom. Bing. Done. Keep going.’ “
“I think we should listen to the Medical Professionals regarding this mans possible mental status.”
Anyone purporting to diagnose a person the haven’t examined would be behaving most unprofessionally.
$22 trillion in “Generational Welfare” and “Affirmative Action Privilege” bought actual American taxpayers this bit of: (a) dazzling brilliance, or (b) baffling bull—t.
What with over 2 years of negative coverage, I would count it a positive if only 50% are claimed in a poll to not vote for the man. I would think the media would be tragically disconsolate that his ratings were not below 10% after their relentless drumbeat of hate and doom.
Yes, because obviously the President is a stellar human being and man of his word who stands as a model of intelligence, reflection, humility, and selflessness. The GOP should be very proud.
Anon……..LBJ was the most crass, vile, most under-handed lying skirt chasing SOB ever. Even when I was a Democrat I thought so. He makes Trump look like a summer missionary.
And he screwed up Civil Rts by burying Danidl Moynahan’s findings in his report about black families that LBJ commissioned! That report would have saved black families years of heartache and distruction.And would have saved the black fzmily u it! Moynahan was devastated because he knew what the outcome would be down ths road.
He was so right, unfortunately.
LBJ was a smart and informed leader who kept his cruder behavior behind the scenes and respected voters enough to not tell us bald face and self-serving lies to our faces 6 times a day, nor brag incessantly about things he had nothing to do with. Nor did he try to pit groups of Americans against each other for his own benefit. Policy wise he got the CR Act of 1964 passed which was landmark and revolutionary and he got us deeper into VN and the hell with him for that. Nixon continued that insane policy when they both finally knew we were not going to win.
Anon…no, LBJ did not hide his crude behavior. The press covered for him.
He was ruthless, petty, and vile. As I said, he did not go far enough to ensure thst the already tenuous fsmily structure in the black community because of politics. Please read Patrick Moynahan’s gripping study about the future of blacks if the warnings were not heeded.Moynaha was a liberal, you know.
We can see the results today, sadly.
You are arguing about policy which is not as simple as you claim. The current president has no interest in policy beyond what suits his personnel petty interests.
If you want to slam LBJ – and I have and will continue to for VN especially – you vae to credit it with him getting the CR Act of 1964 passed, and major achievement. If you grew up in Houstin in the 50’s and 60’s you know what I mean.
Anon……..you didn’t get my point. LBJ did not go FAR ENOUGH with the Civil Rts. Act…..and did not heed the warning about Welfare programs demoralizing Blsck fsthers.
In the 50’s and 60’s, 24% of black babies were born out of wedlick.with no father at home.
Today, that number has approached 80%……….as predited by Democrst Moynahan.
Don’t take my word for it, read and listen to intelectual conservative blacks today. They are my heroes! Wonderful thinkers…..wonderful people.
I was a liberal Democrat until I became a critical thinker…..Free at last.
Sorry for all of the misspells……..guess I turned off spell check when I disabled
Predictive Text 😊 I really hate machines.
Anon…Surely you are too young to have been involved in Viet Nam. Was you father, may I ask?
I would say all presidents end up lying out of necessity, but LBJ was really really good at it.
LBJ was the most cunning president ever. The most knowing of the nuances of the legislative system,. The most ruthless. He turned on his own group of Southern Democrats fiercely in delivering the 64 Civil Rights act. He was supremely intelligent, absolutely ruthless, and cunning like a serpent, and on that level, I can admire him.
Many also believe that he green lighted a plot to kill JFK which of course put him in charge. Apparently Nixon may have believed that. And E Howard Hunt. But what did they know. Just another couple conspiracy theorists.
Lying out of necessity is something we all expect from fellow humans and presidents. Lying about everything without the slightest concern that everyone sees you doing it is a whole ‘nother thing which signals his complete lack of respect for those listening. Apparently he reads his audience well.
Cindy, LBJ was elected by a landslide in 1964. Whereas Trump lost the Popular Vote by 3%. For that one reason alone LBJ was a more legitimate president than Trump.
LBJ had been Senate Majority Leader when Kennedy first appointed him as Vice Presidential running mate. Therefore LBJ had a very solid background in government; which gave his presidency a solid footing of experience.
Trump, by contrast, had, and continues to have, ‘no experience’ to draw on. That’s ‘why’ Trump has so many problems with the media and world opinion; he’s still this moose in the china shop trashing all the glassware.
But it’s hard to imagine why LBJ is even relevant to any debate regarding Donald Trump. Trump supporters seek to frame every defense of Trump with comparisons to some Democrat liberals are supposed to scurry from.
When comparison’s to Hillary aren’t enough to make liberals flee, we have to hear about LBJ’s crudeness. Like LBJ is this third rail on the tracks that no liberal wants to touch. So the mere mention of his name will shut liberals up! That’s how dumb it gets!!
Why is it Donald Trump can never be discussed as a stand-alone subject without comparisons to some ‘horrible’ Democrat?
Answer: ‘Because as a stand-alone subject, Donald Trump is a buffoonish, anti-intellectual who places family over country’.
more legit? not if he green lighted a plot to kill JFK he wasnt. of course, that’s just a baseless conspiracy theory. take the CIA’s word for it.
Of course it’s clear now the CIA lied repeatedly about material issues to the Warren Commission, that much has been established by declassified materials. But the government is close to point out that nothing released undermines the lone shooter theory. I mean, directly undermines it, that is. Because of course it indirectly undermines it very much so. And one wonders what other lies have not been declassified.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/jfk-assassination-lone-gunman-cia-new-files-215449
I also wonder, who was Trump talking to when he said this?
Maybe he was sending a message not to the petty bellicose nobodies who make up the antifa, nor mad maxine’s unruly supporters.
maybe he was sending a not-very-subtle message to his superspook detractors like Clapper who might think they can play some games like Allen Dulles played against JFK after JFK fired him.
But I know, that’s just another baseless conspiracy theory
Kurtz, with characters like Oswald everything reeks of intrigue. The man was a sociopathic loser but smart enough to cause huge amounts of trouble.
I’m loathe to say too much or my partner in dialogue here Spas will come on and scold me. And what’s the point?
It’s like UFOs. Tons of people have seen them, people have videotaped them, some of the reports are rock solid credible and yet physically impossible to explain, the government generally and habitually lies about them, we have plenty of declassified information proving the government habitually lies about them……and the whole conversation produces more squirrels and nuts than an oak grove.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RlbqOl_4NA
so again, whats the point. once you understand how much and how habitually government workers lie, it’s not as exciting to study as when one is a callow youth.
and yet I come on here every day people are wetting their britches over Trump lying. Ha, well, he works for the government, right? There ya go.
smart enough to cause huge amounts of trouble.
No, he wasn’t. IIRC, he was given psychometric tests on entering the military (and perhaps in high school as well) and the results indicate he was near the 87th percentile of the general population on this metric, similar to a pharmacist. Pharmacists get through school and earn good livings, something Oswald couldn’t manage. He had one talent: getting fired from his job. (And under that rubric getting court-martialed while in the Marine Corps). He never had the diligence to learn much of anything, suffered delusions of grandeur, lacked the people skills to participate in co-operative projects, and had no capacity for leadership at all. That the assassination caused the trouble it did (mainly taking up the time of government investigators and of cranks who write books for the crank-book market) is a tribute to the interaction of culture with accident, not any plan on his part. Had Jack Ruby not put a bullet into him, Oswald would have died in prison and not taken up much more space in people’s heads than did James Earl Ray or Sirhan Sirhan.
Tabby, when I say “smart enough to cause huge amounts of trouble”, I don’t mean Oswald was a genius of any kind.
But we’ve all known co-workers of average intelligence who were smart to cause a huge amount of trouble. And ‘yes’, they’re usually fired for sour appleness. Oswald was undoubtedly that kind of guy.
PHill……..I’m a Texan…….don’t need a lecture on LBJ.
Trump is crass, buffonish, over the top. So what?
His one job is to following Article 2 of the Constitution and abide by it. Period.
And that’s what he has done.
He is bound by the constitution, not the Bible, or Emily Post, or Psychology Today., or Who’s Who.
Get it?
I’m satisfied that he is honoring his constitutional duties. That’s all we are paying him to do.
If you are so delicate that you cannot physically or mentally accept someone who is different, and eccentric, then that’s on you.
Cindy Bragg says:
PHill……..I’m a Texan…….don’t need a lecture on LBJ. Trump is crass, buffonish, over the top. So what?
……………………………………………………………………………………………..
In this dramatic display of transparency, a Trump supporter admits that Trump is buffoonish and over-the-top. But ‘So what?’, she asks!
Apparently in Cindy’s mind we have arrived at a point in time where it’s acceptable for the president to be an over-the-top buffoon. Like somehow the realities of governing now require buffoons in the White House. Hence the reflexive “What about Hillary?” comments. A buffoon, we must gather, is preferable to Hillary.
Phill…For the Dems in 2008, an empty suit jock was preferable to Hillary.
Article two doesn’t address what a President’s personality or social conduct is supposed to be.
You’re having a hard time with that, I can tell
Amend that sucker if you’re so distraught.
And join a party that wins elections.
The GOP has won the popular vote for president once since 1992 and that was by an incumbent in a time of war (who had lost his 1st run). How many more times do you think you can win with most Americans voting against you? BTW, the demographics don’t look good in the future.
Anon…..you are right about the demographics. But polling is not what it used to be either.
My name is on so many Democratic lists…….I was deep in the Tex Dem Party since the 1970’s. Do you think I’m going to tell them my votes or my views?
Ha! I’m old but I’m not crazy. I tried being honest with them once and they tried to make my life miserable.
thanks btw for the caveat re: ynot…LOL
Being crass and a bufoon is not the worst of it. That would be an un-serious ignorant lying braggart, immune to the suffering of others and concerned only with his own goals of hogging the spotlight and stroking his ego. He’s addicted to it if you haven’t noticed and displays classic sociopathic narcissism. No matter what we each think of the politics of the other presidents in our lifetime, none have been as toxic as this creep. You have to be blind to not see this.
Anon..the narcissism is exactly what Obama was accused of, also
But the problem dear Brutus, (today is the Ides of March) is that you and I are starti at conflicting points of reference. You are being told 24 hrs a day so many stories that are false, and quotes being taken out of context. But your sources are ones who have always trusted. I get that
I come from a different slate….I hear and read all sides, then research for facts and the full qoutes and contexts.
If we are going to release recordings and quotes from private conversations Trump had when he was a Democrat, btw, years ago and not in politics……then let’s hear everybody’s past recordings. It’s not a level field otherwise.
You know who said that Trump called those countries Sh**hole countries? Dick Durbin, who has lied before about what was said in a private meeting! Dick Durbin! That’s your source.
Read what Ted K said on the floor of the Senate about African and asian immigrants.
It’s shocking…..but he was a rich Dem.
UH, I’m sorry but Obama did not spend every day trying to be on the news and in everyone’s head and desperate for attention. That comparison is false.
We don’t have to hear secret tapes on this guy. He’s a jerk in public almost every day.
Anon…….Yes Obama actially did spend everyday doing thst. People had drinking games based on how many times he used the word I in a statement when he wasn’t on the golf course ( over 227 rounds in 8 years, compared to GWBush’s 24 rounds in 8 yrs)
BUT…..I know you cannot be persuaded otherwise
That’s OK…..The Dems have done their job.
But you’re a good man.