With Saudi Arabia facing global outcry for execution of gays and display of crucified prisoners, Brunei is facing its own opposition movement over the adoption of Sharia law (including the stoning of adulterers and gays). In a remarkable act of hubris, Brunei is complaining over the lack of “tolerance’ for its intolerance for gays and others.
In a letter to the European parliament, Brunei basically argued that it would use the Sharia penalty of stoning for gays sparingly. It noted that it would only use the medieval punishment of death by stoning for homosexuality when two men of “high moral standing and piety” to be witnesses. Of course, with two such “moral men,” gays can be publicly stoned to death in the name of Islamic justice.
The four-page letter added a considerable element of irony in calling for “tolerance, respect and understanding” for its execution of people solely for their sexual orientation.
In addition, we are supposed to be understanding that the country’s new penal code provides for amputations upon thieves and whipping of people wearing clothes associated with the opposite sex.
Brunei is so clueless that it believes that this is all just a misunderstanding of why the country needed to stone adulterers and gays to death: “The criminalization of adultery and sodomy is to safeguard the sanctity of family lineage and marriage to individual Muslims, particularly women.” Thus, it only wants to stone people to death to protect the moral standing of the country.
Brunei has chosen religious orthodoxy over human rights. Yet, all those who believe in human rights cannot be “tolerant” or “understanding” of laws that deny the most basic rights to citizens. Explaining that you want to stone adulterers and homosexuals to death simply because you are trying to rid the country of immorality is not very compelling for most human beings.
Incompatible world views.
Sigh.
Step away from Twitter.
I quite like Andrew Napolitano. Whether I agree with him, or not, he makes careful and thoughtful conclusions. I don’t know the law community well, but I would want someone like Professor Turley on the Court. We need people on the Court willing to set aside personal politics and just follow the law.
Trump is not going to get a personality transplant anytime soon. He will engage in petty Twitter wars for the duration. The alternative is either socialism or lawlessness. If Napolitano is angry at Trump or not, don’t air dirty laundry on Twitter.
This reminds me of the scene in Ratatouille where Little Chef is learning how to “drive” Linguini, and accidentally throws a frying pan out the window, into traffic below. When Linguini tries to pull up the blindfold, Little Chef puts it back on over his eyes. Any headline that begins with “Trump Tweets…” is accompanied by the sound of broken glass, and tires screeching.
Oops. A comment was hanging so I tried reposting, and it went on the wrong thread. That kind of day…
Hard Leftists have no problem whatsoever in defending anti-semites as well as those who believe that homosexuality is a capital offense. I can see why the Sultan of Brunei would have been sure of his support. The very cultures who kill gays get adamant and vociferous support among the hard Left, while the anti-semitic BDS gains popularity.
61 million abortions of human fetuses since 1973, and America is supposed to dictate the laws and morals in other countries?
Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom were murdered in a heinous and brutal manner and the perpetrators were not sentenced to death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom
right, the awful brothers and their gansterish baggy pants wearing thug buddies, made them take money out of their atms and then raped the girl, and the boy, in front of each other, then poured bleach down her throat, murdered them and tossed their bodies on the tracks.
dont worry george, some of us didn’t miss it at the time and will never forget
https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/37878832/fifth-person-charged-in-gruesome-2007-murders-of-young-knoxville-couple
but the US has to lecture a tiny Muslim principality because it threated to stone theoretical incidents of buggery! How good is the US at preventing buggery with all our tolerance?
Let’s see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape
wow! more that many men are raped by other men every year how much?
ten times as many per year, estimated, than women are raped by men?
I think there is a legitimate concern over the millenia with homosexual bad conduct. a very legit one. you can see with your own eyes it has not disappeared. but hey, let’s keep “celebrating diversity” and ignore some brutal facts
some homosexual advocates observe that “LGBTQ” persons are at risk of prison rate higher than heteros. That is true– but who is on the other end of it? Are the rapists just deemed homosexual because they’re
“tops” ? That seems ridiculous to me. They are homosexual rapist predators and the American prisons are full of them. PERHAPS THEY SHOULD BE STONED FOR IT. Not the victims, of course but the perpetrators. At least given a fair trial and a severe punishment. Instead, the problem is mostly ignored and it took until 2003 to even get a law aimed at the massive problem
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-108publ79/pdf/PLAW-108publ79.pdf
Of course if women are being raped by guards and other inmates, and they are, that should be punished as well
WHERE ARE THE BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ON THIS ISSUE? Oh, kind of quiet. Doesn’t fit the narrative their rich gay donors like! Not that Republicans are much better.
If we can’t protect people who are locked up from rape, then we can’t protect anybody.
some left wing outfits have taken notice
https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/shocking-levels-of-sexual-abuse-in-prisons-cannot-continue/
dont worry too much about BRUNEI. Worry about the poor bastids down at the county jail or nearby prison getting turned out day after day. It’s a travesty!
Feminists are not to blame for the acts, but they are partly to blame for the lack of attention to this horrible lack of attention to abuse. they’re always whining about the smaller thing and completely continue to ignore a bigger thing.
BECAUSE MENS LIVES DONT MATTER TO THEM THATS WHY. Kind of like this other grievance-exploiters, the race baiters.
Which reminds me– yes. WHITE males are disproportionately victims and take a wild guess who is disproportionately on the “Delivering” end of the problem.
Well, the UN Council on Human Rights is on the case. And the 47 member states have all demonstrated their commitment to the international standards of human rights. Some have even gone so far as to voice concerns. Any day now they will be submitting recommendations to the UN General Assembly for some serious sanctions against member nations that violate those human rights standards.
In the ensuing discussion on freedom of religion or belief, speakers underlined that freedom of religion could only be limited by law in certain strictly defined ways and under specific circumstances defined by international law. They underscored the intersectional and mutually reinforcing nature of freedom of expression and freedom of religion, and they inquired about the role that faith-based actors had in upholding the international human rights framework. Some speakers voiced concern about the wide-spread use of blasphemy and apostasy laws which in some countries could lead to the death penalty. Moreover, there was a dramatic increase in hate crimes against religious minorities, facilitated by the ease of expressing hatred online.
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=24260&LangID=E
And never fear, the SPLC is also on the case.
The term “Sharia law” is a misnomer because sharia is not actually a law or a universally-defined legal code, but a set of guiding principles to living a moral life set out in the Quran.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/02/05/anti-sharia-law-bills-united-states
It isn’t just the Quran, it is also the Bible. Leviticus 20:13. This is not Christianity, the following of Christ, but many so-called Christians accept Leviticus then decry Sharia Law.
but many so-called Christians accept Leviticus then decry Sharia Law.
Go ahead and identify the so-called Christians that follow: they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. to the letter. When you do, I will join you in denouncing them as well.
I’ll wait.
Come on bettykath, you said many so-called Christians. With such a declaration, you should have easily identified at least 10. How about 1?
Bettykath:
Please explain the moral equivalence of Sharia Law dictating gay men be killed in Muslim majority countries, and the majority Christian nations in which this does not happen. If it is the same, then poor gay men would be beheaded in America. Although we are not a theocracy, we were based upon Judeo-Christian values, and yet, our country doesn’t execute gay men. Western Europe does not execute gay men. Nations under Sharia Law do.
I was raised Catholic, went through CCD, was confirmed, and attended Church every Sunday, no matter where my family were traveling or stationed. As such, I attended Catholic masses in many of the states in the US, as well as various European countries, and South America. I never once, heard a priest declare that gay men should be put to death. I don’t even recall a priest ever talking about homosexuality during the homily in mass. Hardly likely, considering the high incidence of gay priests.
Leviticus is Old Testament, not New Testament. Christians believe that the New Testiment fulfilled the Old Testament. That is why we don’t burn a bull on the Sabbath. At the time of the writing of the Old Testament, homosexuality was used as an institutionalized form of abuse. It most certainly wasn’t limited to two consenting adults of their own free will. You may want to read up about Spartan culture, for example, and the “mentoring” required of all of the young boys. All. Of. Them. The Qu’ran is the literal word of Allah, unchangeable. The Old Testament was written by prophets inspired by God, thousands of years ago. We can absolutely abanadon the practice of not burning a bull anymore, and not be considered an apostate. Mohammad declared that his own life was the example of the most perfect Muslim, and that all future Muslims should try to emulate him.
No reply to any of the facts contradicting your statement, bettykath.
It is a persistent false logic whenever a Muslim majority country abuses human rights, and a Leftist tries to equate the abuse with Christianity.
Why can’t anyone just condemn something wrong?
Why can’t anyone just condemn something wrong?
Because in bettykath’s case, that would require something she clearly doesn’t have; a moral center.
I agree with your wise words about the Christian faith which are dogmatically correct.
However, let me defend the ancient Greeks a little bit against this notion that mentoring was [always] sexual abuse. The modern day homosexual lobby has exaggerated this to justify their own foul excesses. Rather, it was a social institution to advance education, which fell into abuse. and it was not specific to Sparta.
Plato wrote about it and criticized it. from wiki:
“In Laws, Plato takes a much more austere stance to homosexuality than in previous works, stating:
… one certainly should not fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities [the Cretans] were impelled by their slavery to pleasure. And we all accuse the Cretans of concocting the story about Ganymede.
Plato states here that “we all”, possibly referring to society as a whole or simply his social group, believe the story of Ganymede’s homosexuality to have been fabricated by the Cretans to justify immoral behaviours.
The Athenian stranger in Plato’s Laws blames pederasty for promoting civil strife and driving many to their wits’ end, and recommends the prohibition of sexual intercourse with youths, laying out a path whereby this may be accomplished.”
Today this is analogous to the situation wherein mentoring of altar boys by priests, has so many times, wrongfully fallen into criminal and abusive sexual exploitation, which we all deplore. However, it would be wrong to abolish altar servers entirely, wouldn’t it? Likewise Boy Scouts. Mentoring as such is not the problem. The proper mentoring of youths which does not involve sexual abuse, should not be prevented just because the perverts and criminals use it to cover their wickedness.
Send in your donation NOW to SPLC, gullibe fools! their 335$ billion endowment needs your supplement, immediately, especially now that their poster-boy and founder Morris Dees has been ejected for being a racial and sexual harasser now himself!
SORRY> TYPO. $335 MILLION.
Silly me, it was that YEARS ago! Now its $477 millions! lol
More money than the ACLU by far. Ha, ha, ha
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-lost-all-credibility/2018/06/21/22ab7d60-756d-11e8-9780-b1dd6a09b549_story.html
Morris Dees, separating fools out of their money and promoting far right extremism with negative press for decades. He should get a big thank you from all the handful of kluckers out there trying to gin up donations to their po boxes!
Oops, sorry….
Brunei has chosen religious orthodoxy over human rights.
One’s religious orthodoxy, and the precepts on the moral life which flow from it, define human rights.
My unsolicited suggestion to you is that you make your complaint about particular cases of people abused by the Brunei legal system, and attempt to make your case not making use of presuppositions that they do not share.
Other remarks you make here indicate that you live immersed in a faculty cultural matrix. One assumption in such matrices is that homosexuals are da bomb and must never be spoken about with anything but appreciation and deference. Ergo, the suggestion that they’re engaged in criminal activity is intolerable even if the law is never enforced. We’d all benefit if you’d lose the ‘tude. Foreign Service officers have enough to do without complaining about hypotheticals to host governments.
Sure, the Muslim treatment of gays and women is barbaric but I have trouble taking leftists, particularly feminists seriously because they are often hesitant to criticize the “Religion of Peace”.
And besides who gave the United States the right to tell other nations how they should run their affairs?
This is one issue the left and “conservatism, inc.” have in common. Tell most Americans someone in the world, anywhere is none of our business and you get a blank stare.
“Of course, it’s our business, we are only trying to help, etc.”.
Again, not condoning how Islam treats women just pointing out our hypocrisy.
How many nations have Russia, China and Iran bombed since the end of the Cold War?
antonio
well said antonio.
this is a non-issue which already has received too much attention.
I object to the policy and I believe we should not support such countries, directly or indirectly. It’s there business but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any consequences.
Define ‘support’.
I have always been amazed at the feminist, homosexual, LGQBT and Muslim coalitions.
Hate to break it to lefties but being a good politically correct, multiculti supporting leftist doesn’t seem to help with a jihadi comes calling. Maybe the Islamic terrorist (and yes, I call them terrorists) didn’t get the memo to attack only rightists!
Good riddance to them! I feel little empathy when some “Allah akbar” shouting jihadi attacks a Western target. Maybe people will eventually wake up and realize that letting millions of individuals with nothing in common with your society is probably not a good idea.
antonio
yes! but they are too weak to say that. and remember it was the specific intention of some factions to WEAKEN THE WEST with millions of post-colonial, non-European peoples, and diverse religions, in the first place
Which is what they were doing with homosexuality normalization in the first place as well
And so their ploys are at loggerheads. Well, let them stew in it.
It’s hard to see where things will be 50 years out but the Muslims in the third world has an immense demographic advantage and they are invading apace. Sterner measures will be necessary and coddling homosexual’s worries about a handful of their rich “brothers” in Brunei is not going to help much in any direction. Just a waste of breath.
It’s hard to see where things will be 50 years out but the Muslims in the third world has an immense demographic advantage and they are invading apace.
The total fertility rate in the Near East, North Africa, and Central Asia is about 3.3 children per woman per lifetime and has been declining at a steady clip for over 50 years. The countries with the highest fertility rates are dirt poor and don’t produce many outmigrants (Afghanistan, Yemen) or tend to have have fairly lax religious cultures and low levels of political mobilization (the post-Soviet states in Central Asia).
You have recited a trend which is DECELERATING and that is good news. But not anywhere near parity with “The West” and it threatens us demographically.
It’s an interesting verbal ploy. Of course the Left intolerates intolerance, which is what the SPLC hate haters have laid back half a billion dollars for crowing about to their mailing list for decades.
Here, we see that “cultural diversity” may gore someone’s ox in a way that splits and divides the usual coalitions.
How strange that homosexuals supposedly hate the Right according to their self appointed leaders, and yet they need the Right in the West to stop the spread of Islam.
Odd bedfellows. Think of Milo.
For my part I don’t worry too much about the gloriously rich people of Brunei. if there are a few homosexuals there they can easily afford to move to Europe he can. There he can live it up with as much buggery as he can take.
I think Sir Richard Burton wrote a few choice words about this topic in his famous / infamous books not that many have read it or will even know to which I refer. Some have not forgotten https://thesmartset.com/article08101001/
Specifically, consult, “The Jew, the Gypsy, and El Islam” for various scurrilous personal observations of the first “kaffir” to sneak into the Hajj and live to tell about it
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/57208/57208-h/57208-h.htm#III
Much closer to home, we have a Virginia Governor who supports Infanticide for the “crime” of being born a deformed baby, where’s his “stop, pretty please” letter?
Prof. Turley’s unexamined assumptions are those of the faculty rathskellar. It’s the same deal with Tyler Cowen and Alex Tabarrok, another pair of soi-disant ‘libertarians’.
“it would use the Sharia penalty of stoning for gays sparingly.”
Those on the left thinking Sharia is not a threat should look at their gay friends and think again. There are many people in the US that believe in Sharia Law.
Allan:
Or you could look at laws against women, against nonbelievers and especially against Jews. You really have a wide choice of mayhem to cite in opposition to systematic barbarism.
They want us to pay a kaffir tax isn’t that enough? The jizya if I recall the term.
Oh wait the Democrats want to tax us all into poverty as well. Pick your poison
The Sultan and his brother The Prince are using Sharia as a fig leaf to cover over their own degeneracy, decadence and wanton hedonism.
No one is surprised by the use of projection by the corrupt. The Left does it all the time.
“using Sharia as a fig leaf ”
Diane, apparently you don’t know very much about Sharia Law or its history.
In any event Sharia Law, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah and the terrorist nation of Iran are all supported by members of the left including some that are in Congress.
I agree. They are the one who spout Leviticus and Exodus and other books of the pre-Christ era, generally known as evangelicals, the so-called Christian (so-called because they don’t follow the teachings of Christ) extremists.
I guess that would include observant Jews who follow Torah as well. However, there is much to commend the laws of Moses which are bedrock concepts of nearly every judicial system in the world full well including the West and the Muslims who have cobbled much of their religion from the Hebrews.
I am not one to mock the laws of Moses or Hammurabi or any of the ancients but we see a lot of that these days. By people who have no self restraint nor sense of social cohesion whatsoever.
If you want to know how the Laws of Moses relate to heathen systems like the PRC? You have not asked that good question but I will. And the answer is, via the Justinian Code, which informs the Napoleonic code, which is the basic system for countries outside the Anglosphere such as the PRC.
Justinian was a Christian and not just the Byzantine Emperor and was surely familiar with Moses’ laws as well as the ancient Roman precepts of law and the preceeding laws of Lycurgus, Draco, Solon, and the other treasures of Hellenistic antiquity.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25720817?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
None of these sources was very charitable towards homosexuals. Probably most of them ignored them. Feel free to study the attitudes of the ancient Greeks on your own if that’s your thing, the homosexuals mark them as examples of tolerance and perhaps they were in a relative sense ,but it has never been elevated as a form of social advantage as it is now in today’s insane society of America
I am all for tolerating homosexuals and do not favor criminalization of sodomy. I can live with the oxymoronic “gay marriage” concept just fine. Even if I do not agree with it or how it came about. It does not bother me and I almost never think of it except here when we chat. However, I am also mindful that for most of all times and places throughout history and probably even now, it is basically a taboo.
Tell us BettyKath which evangelists have been stoning gays lately? I don’t think I’ll get an answer. They seem to be nicer people then Democrats who teach on to love rather than envy and hate.
someone had told me that this was the religion of peace?
I have been told, on numerous occasions that islam is the religion of peace. what gives?
Brunei Prince’s Life-Size Sex Statues And Perverted Lifestyle Exposed …
https://www.businessinsider.com/prince-jefri-brunei-sex-statue-boat-tits-nipple-speedboat-2010-11
Nov 8, 2010 … AP Prince Jefri Bolkiah of Brunei is desperately trying to control the … and his brother – the Sultan of Brunei – of running a white slavery ring.
unfortunately those images have been scrubbed it seems
It’s a piece of you here, a piece of you there, and all the pieces go into a vat of acid if you’re targeted by the Prince of Saudi Arabia.
Everything in moderation. Including moderation. The word Mexican should not be censored.