In a move that reportedly shocked U.S. military and diplomatic officials, President Donald Trump suddenly caved to Turkish demands and ordered U.S. troops to pull back from the areas held by our Kurdish allies. The move is being widely denounced by both Democrats and Republicans as an abandonment of allies who have fought along side with us for years. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., denounced the “impulsive decision” by Trump and said that this could be “a disaster in the making.” The authoritarian president of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan is of course delighted and is expected to invade Syria now that U.S. troops are pulling back. Nikki Haley, Trump’s former United Nation ambassador, put it bluntly in saying that Trump was leaving our Kurdish allies “to die.” Likewise, Senate Majority Leader denounced the move and declared that it “would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime. And it would increase the risk that ISIS and other terrorist groups regroup.”
Fox news has reported that top Pentagon officials were “completely blindsided” and “shocked.” Once again, the White House seems to be running foreign policy by tweet with little preparation or consultation with its own “constituent” federal agencies.
It is hard not to see how this is not a betrayal to our allies and a further erosion of the faith in U.S. commitments. The Kurds have been a reliable and effective ally for the United States in defeating ISIS. The image of U.S. troops pulling back as Turks ready an invasion will not be forgotten by them or many others who are weighing alliances with the United States.
Trump however insists that times up: “The United States was supposed to be in Syria for 30 days, that was many years ago. We stayed and got deeper and deeper into battle with no aim in sight. When I arrived in Washington, ISIS was running rampant in the area. We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate.”
The problem is that we are not pulling out of Syria. We are pulling back to free areas specifically targeted by Turkey and its notorious leader.
The United States will also be handing over prisoners to Turkey, which now has a green light to wipe out the Kurdish forces.
(ANSAmed) – BEIRUT, OCTOBER 8 – Kurdish-Syrian military forces are not ruling out to cooperate with the government of Damascus against Turkey, said on Tuesday Mazlum Abdi, the chief commander of Kurdish-Syrian forces in northeastern Syria. He stressed a concept already expressed over the past few months following Turkish threats. ”We are considering a partnership with Syrian President Bashar al Assad with the objective of fighting Turkish forces”, said Abdi.(ANSAmed).
////
The only way to keep Turkey out of northern Syria is for the Syrian government to retake control of it’s own lands. This is blazingly obvious. The Turks will not allow even a quasi-Kurdish state to exist on it’s border. The only problem the Kurds have is their own refusal to call Assad…without US support they are forced to deal with reality.
Ivan, the Assad government has to go before any meaningful peace can come to Syria. But for some bizarre reason you see Assad as the legitimate leader. No one but Putin thinks Assad is legit. The rest of the world (except Donald Trump) sees Assad as a war criminal.
Most Absurd,
Who do you see replacing Assad?
I’m not the one trying to replace him, you are!
That’s why I directed the question to Most Absurd
I see you like regime change wars…just like the neo-cons/neo-libs. That’s the formula that had brought our country to bankruptcy and leads us to WW3. It’s the same logic that brought us the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan that’s cost us 10 trillion dollars.
The Assad’s(under their clan) have been ruling Syria for over fifty years. The government is what it is and a regime change war is simply not in our interest.
How do you feel about Saudi Arabia? Should we overthrow their government? They(and I’m talking about the government) actually attacked and killed over three thousand Americans on 9/11.
No one but Putin and a significant element of the Syrian population who backed him in the civil war. You forgot them. Or do you think it was Russians out there doing all the fighting? Think hard about that Peter.
“no one but Putin” do you really believe the stuff that flies off your fingertips? ridiculous!
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gkq7n/meet-the-pro-assad-youtube-sensation-who-predicts-syrias-future
TRUMP WILL BE DEAD MEAT TO ALL AMERICANS IF HE BACK STABS THE KURDS AND THE EUROPEANS WILL REGARD HIM AS A DANGEROUS WEASEL
The New Alias tells us this comment is from someone who can’t stand behind his own opinions. We probably all know who this is but what we don’t know are the reasons behind the comment.
The sellout of one of our best allies by the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make–who were once all for the U.S. protecting democracy and free-trade and our allies — is typical of the day glo bozo supporters. America’s word means nothing, and leaves the oil-rich mideast as the future treasure-hoard for those who would do us harm. However, we true patriots will save our beloved United States of America; just ask yourself: “what is that ticking sound?”
Okay Mark AM exactly how many American lives and trillions of dollars do we have to spend to fight our allies the Turks to defend the Maoist Kurds? Take your time here lest you reveal your arrogant self as the real rube.
Mespo, we have managed to not fight Turkey to protect the Kurds because US policy with our fellow NATO member has been consistent and clear.
Mespo, you’re doubling down on your unsubstantiated claim that the Kurds are Maoists. It’s so stupid! The Kurds, more than anyone, took ISIS down. But you would have us think they are Maoists so we can throw them under the bus..??
“Okay Mark AM exactly how many American lives and trillions of dollars do we have to spend to fight our allies the Turks to defend the Maoist Kurds? Take your time here lest you reveal your arrogant self as the real rube.”
********************
Still waiting on those numbers, Mark AM!
We’re still waiting…and how much have we spent already in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria? 10 trillion dollars, roughly. We’re being destroyed from within by the chickenhawks.
More proof that the only ones who doubt the Kurds are Maoists are you and yours.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/the-kurdish-path-to-socialism-in-syria
Did you even read what you posted? This is from the first paragraph:
“It remains unclear whether this ideology is compatible with local economic conditions, however, and Kurdish authorities might resort to full normalization with the Assad regime instead if key stakeholders resist.”
More excerpts:
“Yet the people seem unlikely to embrace this new economic system. The TEV-DEM program could seduce the landless peasants of Jazira, to whom the PYD plans to distribute former public domains, but it is unpalatable to existing owner-farmers”
“The application of Ocalan’s theories is still modest in Rojava’s economic sphere, as the PYD is aware that it risks alienating a large part of the population, especially those who only rallied to the group for fear of the Islamic State.”
Why the attempt the characterize the entirety of Kurds as die-hard Maoists? Convenience or poor reading comprehension? Let’s see how you realign those goalposts!
No actually it was Assad’s forces more than anyone took ISIL down.
Well, Assad and the Russians. Without Russian intervention(sept’15?) the jihadists would have taken control.
Kurtz, Assad would have gone into exile long ago had Russia not propped him up. So this myth you’re pushing about the great Syrian army is nonsense.
Do you always talk this queeny?
You have now revealed yourself as an utter buffoon; interested in nothing more than defending the indefensible day glo bozo. You purport to care nothing about America’s word to our military allies–all in support of the last greatest hope of white supremacy in America. Sleep soundly; I know you are very aware of the importance of honor and duty in the arena of military affairs.
this is to “ya, Marse Robert prolly lied all the time, too” mespo
Mark AM:
“You have now revealed yourself as an utter buffoon”
************************
Can’t answer it, eh? Like I thought. That’s why I asked it.
“He who throws mud loses ground” and has met a point he can’t refute.
LOL
No substantive answer. Just as I thought. It’s difficult for even a artiste of words to defend the indefensible.
this is to ” ya know, I don’t really care about esoteric impulses like honor, duty, honesty and truth.” Robert E. Lee, said never.
Mark AM:
Nice try Saul, but I asked the question of your unlettered commentary. You go first. How many and how much?
oh today around 10:30 they had a Kurd YPG fighter call into NPR today and say in perfect English university commie speak that the Kurds always expected the imperialist American troublemakers to split.
so, whatever, let the Kurds fight their own battles. Much as I dislike Turkey, it is a NATO ally, and after all, this is in Syria that last week demanded the US pull out. so, hey, rather than go to war with Syria, an adversary, and be pinched on the backside by an angry socalled ally,
VERY WISE TO PULL OUT
of course nobody in the SWAMP likes it including some loudmouth Republicans.. They should shut their fat yaps, fast!
Kurtz, Turkey has no legitimate claim to Northern Syria. They just want to piggy-back on the Kurd’s victory over ISIS. Turkey quite arguably aided the rise of ISIS. And you think they have a ‘solution’ to offer??? ..How dumb..!!
Yes they did help ISIS. And their Turkomen allies in Syria. Turkey has destabilized Syria ten ways to Tuesday, and mostly with the US’ full knowledge and approval, i suspect. So why pretend we are against them now? that’s fake.
Oh, and they’re not piggy backing the Kurds Peter. They hate Kurds and will attack them.
The problem is Turkey is a bigger ally than the Kurds. Kurds are a short term temporary ally, Turks a long term strategic one. There really is little “choice” to be had here.
It was the same talk when we were going to pull out of Iraq. Oh, the Pesh Mergas were so wonderful, etc, dont “abandon” them.
Well the alternative to “abandoning” them is either a) stay there forever (not acceptable– Syria demand our withdrawal last week– risks war with Syria and by proxy Russia or b) pull out.
it’s a binary choice and an easy one. the foot dragging time is over. Trump just made a decision. that’s what deciders do. Naysayers just throw stones from the sidelines.
Oh one more thing. You can call me “Dumb” if you like but your words speak for themselves. So do the words of all the other ignoramuses who pretend that it’s an easy smart thing to keep these 50 guys holed up in Syria. Hmm, not really. Not really.
And, did you know that Trump has 2 hotels in Turkey? Do you think that just, maybe, that might have something to do with all of this?
suspicious person, don’t worry about that. this is the asset of interest
“Incirlik Air Base (Turkish: İncirlik Hava Üssü) (IATA: UAB, ICAO: LTAG) is a Turkish air base of slightly more than 3320 ac (1335 ha),[1] located in the İncirlik quarter of the city of Adana, Turkey. The base is within an urban area of 1.7 million people,[2] 10 km (6 mi) east of the city core, and 32 km (20 mi) inland from the Mediterranean Sea. The United States Air Force and the Turkish Air Force are the primary users of the air base, although it is at times also used by the Royal Air Force and the Royal Saudi Air Force. Also, the base is the home of the 74th Anti-aircraft Artillery Regiment (Patriot Unit) of the Spanish Army.[3][4]
Incirlik Air Base is the home of the 10th Air Wing (Ana Jet Üs or AJÜ) of the 2nd Air Force Command (Hava Kuvvet Komutanlığı) of the Turkish Air Force (Türk Hava Kuvvetleri). Other wings of this command are located in Merzifon (LTAP), Malatya/Erhaç (LTAT) and Diyarbakır (LTCC).[5]
Incirlik Air Base has a U.S. Air Force complement of about five thousand airmen, with several hundred airmen from the Royal Air Force and Turkish Air Force also present, as of late 2002. The primary unit stationed at Incirlik Air Base is the 39th Air Base Wing (39 ABW) of the U.S. Air Force. Incirlik Air Base has one 3,048 m (10,000 ft)-long runway,[6][7] located among about 57 hardened aircraft shelters. Tactical nuclear weapons are stored at the base.[8]”
Good point, Natacha. Trump has Putin’s back on Syria while securing his own business interests in Istanbul.
They left out imPeach!
https://pickyourown.org/peachvarieties.htm
IVANKA TWEET THANKING TURKEY’S ERDOGAN FOR ATTENDING ISTANBUL TRUMP TOWERS LAUNCH RE-EMERGES AMID SYRIA CONTROVERSY
BY DAVID BRENNAN ON 10/7/19 AT 8:11 AM EDT
https://www.newsweek.com/ivanka-trump-tweet-thanking-turkey-erdogan-attending-istanbul-trump-towers-launch-syria-controversy-1463536
that’s not the real estate deal the US is worried about Anonymous.
this is a far more strategic interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base
Punching Above Their Weight
KURDS: WORLD CLASS FIGHTERS
If only the South Vietnamese had been as reliable as The Kurds. If only the current Iraqi regime was as reliable as The Kurds. If only our partners in Afghanistan could fight like The Kurds.
The Kurds incurred more than 10,000 casualties taking down The Islamic State. Kurds administer camps holding 60,000 ISIS soldiers, women and children. A big burden Kurds are shouldering on behalf of the United States.
Kurdish women have taken a sizable role in both combat and guard duties. The camps they secure include thousands of ISIS women. ISIS women are also tough, and highly radicalized. Kurdish women are doing the world a favor by guarding ISIS women.
Why would Trump want to discard The Kurds?
Coincidentally Vladimir Putin wants to marginalize The Kurds. Putin knows his client, Bashar Assad, has no chance of recovering the Syria he owned. Not with The Kurds controlling a quarter of the country. If that’s bad for Assad it’s bad for Putin too. The Assad’s have granted naval bases to both Soviets and Russians for almost 50 years.
So this is another instance where Trump’s peculiar position dovetails with Putin’s. Funny how that goes.
We had an ally in RVN that was a tough minority called the Montagnards. Also we had the Hmong, similar.
Bigger issues required the US to withdraw. Sorry, the US is not the world cop.
Kurds are not Arabs. Turks are not Arabs. Arabs are not united. It’s complicated, step down off the soap-box and take a deep breath “Most Absurd”
In reply to those war mongers who post here defending the US being bedmates with Saudi Arabia, who sponsored 9-11:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/rare-fox-news-segment-details-saudi-state-sponsorship-911-attacks
Edward Snowden well documented that there are official US government employees who post regularly at social media like this blog, supporting war and other Deep State operations. I’d be shocked if some of the loudest war mongers here are not such persons.
This is to clarify Catholic Church and so-called evangelical Christian permission for Christians to engage in war vs. New Testament commands to “love one another,” which command applies to a Christian’s worst enemies, including those who would kill us and/or take our earthly belongings, even our country.
In the 13th C. the Catholic Church desired official justification for war. St. Thomas Aquinas authored and described a “just war” as one in which there is no other choice except to war. Aquinas ignored the obvious alternate choice to surrender to avoid war. The church never officially forbid surrender, which means surrender is always an option, which flatly removes Aquinas’ so-called justification.
Besides the obvious predicament above, there’s also this predicament for followers of Aquinas’ “Just War” theory. Suppose a Catholic pilots a war plane ordered to drop a bomb that shall surely incinerate the Vatican, where the Pope and all his minions reside? What then? “Let us not do evil (war) that good may result.”
There is no known way a Christian can square Christ’s words/commandments with carrying a weapon or killing for the King (war).
“No man can be a slave of two masters; either he shall hate the one and love the other, or he shall be devoted to the one and despise the other.”
“Those who hate me love death.”
“And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said to them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.”
Christ does not command the soldiers to resign their military command, but every other reference to physical violence against man is forbidden in the NT, even against those who would kill us.
Princess, again you wade into waters blindly. The just war doctrine is one of the finest traditions of Christianity and it’s wisely been integrated into international treaties like the Geneva Convention and Hague Treaty.
The only people I heard harping on it are usually Mennonites & Amish and their pacifists friends. I like them fine but they would not exist if the secular cops of the various nations were not protecting them from total destruction by criminals. Wise up.
“Christ does not command the soldiers to resign their military command, but every other reference to physical violence against man is forbidden in the NT, even against those who would kill us.“
***********************
Well, there plenty of God-approved physical violence in thr Old Testament which Jesus approved in every “jot and tittle.” As for physical violence Jesus was no slouch either:
“And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;”
~ John 2:15
Atheists and liberals have argued for decades that Catholics should be something they will never do themselves: a doormat.
Thou shall not be a doormat
– Gospel of Estovir
👍🏽
Matthew 18:15
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
Deuteronomy 28:13
And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail, and you shall only go up and not down, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, being careful to do them,
1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
2 Thessalonians 3:1-3
Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Psalm 91:1-16
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, …
Revelation 12:11
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
1 John 4:11
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1 John 3:16
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
1 Peter 2:5
You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 13:15
Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.
Acts 16:37
But Paul said to them, “They have beaten us publicly, uncondemned, men who are Roman citizens, and have thrown us into prison; and do they now throw us out secretly? No! Let them come themselves and take us out.”
John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
Psalm 23:1-6
A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. …
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Titus 2:5
To be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.
1 Timothy 1:5
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
Ephesians 5:21
Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
John 13:35
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Amos 3:3
“Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?
Jeremiah 4:19
My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.
James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
Hebrews 11:1-40
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. …
2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
1 Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
1 Corinthians 13:13
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.
Romans 12:1
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
John 15:12
“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Proverbs 31:1-31
The words of King Lemuel. An oracle that his mother taught him: What are you doing, my son? What are you doing, son of my womb? What are you doing, son of my vows? Do not give your strength to women, your ways to those who destroy kings. It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted. …
Proverbs 3:6
In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.
KURDS SUFFERED MORE THAN 10,000 CASUALTIES..
FIGHTING ISLAMIC STATE
In a Sunday White House statement and Monday’s tweets, Trump suggested that the United States was shouldering too much of the burden — and the cost — of fighting the Islamic State.
He also retweeted an assertion that the Syrian Kurds are akin to Turkey’s own Kurdish autonomy movement, which both Turkey and the United States have labeled a terrorist group. That stance, part of Turkish dogma and the rationale for its planned attack, has been anathema to U.S. policy for years, especially since Syrian Kurdish fighters have served as the primary ground force against the Islamic State, with the United States providing logistical and air support. The Kurds have suffered more than 10,000 casualties in the fight.
The fast-moving developments threatened a fresh military conflagration in a large swath of northern Syria, where Ankara has been increasingly unnerved by the Kurdish presence and close U.S. ties to the fighters.
Erdogan has been threatening an imminent invasion for months, both to create a buffer against the Kurds and to provide a place where Turkey can relocate some 3.5 million Syrian refugees who have fled over the border.
The Trump administration believed that the safe-zone agreement would satisfy Turkish security demands and provide a measure of protection for the Kurds so they would continue to spearhead the ground fight against Islamic State forces, which have dispersed in Syria and Iraq. But Turkey has repeatedly complained that the zone is too small and U.S. implementation is too slow.
Despite what his own diplomats have negotiated, Trump “just wants out” of Syria in general, said an adviser who has repeatedly discussed the issue with him. “He doesn’t want to be there. He doesn’t want to pay.”
Edited from: “Republicans Assail Trump’s Decision To Pull Troops From Northern Syria As Turkey Readies Offensive”
This evening’s Washington Post
Wapo booster Peter checking in, good to see ya peter!
Of course the Wapo is a defamation machine for Trump. This withdrawal is just.
Turkish intelligence sees taking those prisoners as the draft of drafts, and after pouring through the candidates will have some hella MVPs.
You know, if Obama was trying to pull the U.S. out of Syria, folks would be trying to give him another Nobel Peace Prize.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Irrelevant and based on nothing but whimsy, but typical.
this is to “me and zebediah gots the two-fer-one special on sheets down to the Gibson’s white sale” sqeeKKK
MILITARY TIMES NOTES..
KURDISH FORCES HOLD 60 K ISIS DETAINEES
Air Force Lt. Col. Carla Gleason, a Pentagon spokeswoman, confirmed to Military Times that Turkey had been pulled off the air tasking order and that the U.S. was not sharing reconnaissance drone feeds with the country.
Thousands of ISIS fighters under the watch of U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces across dozens of pop-up detention facilities in northern Syria represent a time bomb waiting to explode.
Their release could lead to a comeback for the terrorist group that has since largely been scattered to remote ares under intense coalition air support and sustained operations by SDF forces.
The White House said Turkey would be responsible for the ISIS fighters detained over the last several years. Sunday’s statement came following a call between President Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
But, some argue America’s NATO ally does not have the capacity or will to oversee the tens of thousands of detainees and refugees.
“Turkey has neither the intent, desire, nor capacity to manage 60k detainees in al Hol camp, which State and DoD IGs [inspector general] warn is the nucleus for a resurgent ISIS. Believing otherwise is a reckless gamble with our national security,” Brett McGurk, Trump’s former envoy for the fight against ISIS, tweeted.
Turkey has long made claims of a pending invasion of northern Syria to buffer against what it sees as Kurdish groups aligned with the terrorist group known as the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK.
Kurdish YPG fighters who fought under the larger SDF umbrella organization to liberate northeastern Syria from ISIS fighters have various allegiances to the PKK. That connection has soured relations between Ankara and Washington.
Edited from: “U.S. Withdrawal In Syria Is Only A Small Number Of Special Operators, Says Trump Administration”
Military Times, 10/7/19
ha. well. the US helped sell arms to these scoundrels, the US helped lock them up, now some guy in US says we have to stay there permanently and do what? Establish a base like Camp X Ray in Cuba, forever to spend millions indefintely? MCGurk has to plan.
Let the Turks and Syrians figure it out. I bet Assad knows how to handle them.
If Assad gets there first, the problem won’t surface again. He’ll put an end to it.
MCCONNELL AND KEY REPUBLICAN SENATORS..
BREAK WITH TRUMP OVER SYRIA
President Trump faced a swift torrent of Republican criticism Monday as lawmakers rebuked his plan to withdraw troops from northeast Syria, a move Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said would undermine U.S. national security and potentially bolster Islamic State terrorists.
McConnell (R-Ky.), in a rare public split with Trump, said that a supermajority in the Senate disagreed with the president’s abrupt withdrawal announcement, raising the specter of veto-proof action to oppose the decision.
“A precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime,” McConnell said in a statement Monday. “And it would increase the risk that ISIS and other terrorist groups regroup.”
McConnell’s statement, in which he called on Trump to “exercise American leadership” and reconsider his plan to withdraw troops from Syria’s border with Turkey, echoed the comments of other Republicans who condemned the president’s decision Monday. The mounting opposition means that Trump is facing some of the sharpest criticism he has received from his party at the same time that his political survival could be in the hands of Republican senators forming a bulwark against a growing impeachment threat.
Several senators said Monday that Trump’s move would undermine U.S. credibility, because it would mean abandoning U.S.-allied Kurdish fighters ahead of a long-threatened Turkish offensive into northern Syria.
“This betrayal of the Kurds will also severely harm our credibility as an ally the world over,” Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) said in a statement. “President Trump should rethink this decision immediately.”
While Democrats roundly criticized the troop withdrawal, the outpouring of opposition from the president’s party stood out.
But Trump’s move to draw down troops in Syria, announced Sunday night in a White House statement, opened him up to direct criticism from some of the lawmakers who have tried to defend him in the impeachment inquiry.
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who has called impeachment attempts “ridiculous,” blasted Trump’s Syria decision Monday.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), who defended Trump by saying the president was not being serious when he called on China to investigate Biden, criticized the Syria move.
“If reports about US retreat in #Syria are accurate, the Trump administration has made a grave mistake that will have implications far beyond Syria,” he said on Twitter.
Some evangelical Christian leaders aligned with Republicans also condemned the decision, warning that Turkish aggressions in northern Syrian could imperil Christian communities there.
Edited from: “Republicans Deliver Rare Rebuke Of Trump Slamming His Syria Withdrawal Decision”
This Evening’s Washington Post
All this Congressional moaning…..ABOUT NOTHING! Congress has absolutely positively nothing to complain about to Trump. All Congress needs to do for a war with Turkey is to vote for it, and they can have their friggen war.
First Congress must cancel NATO, of which Turkey is a member, and few things would make me happier.
“Evangelical Christian leaders…condemned (Trump’s) decision…” Translation: Zionist faux-Christian Israel-firsters condemned Trump. There, FIFY!
Contrary to the OT, every single NT quote from Jesus Re. human violence against humans is to forbid it: start with “Love your enemies…do good to those who righteously abuse you…if your enemy takes your cloak, give him your tunic…feed your enemies…do not evil (harm) for any (alleged) good cause.” A person who follows Christ has no need for earthly goals/possessions…”store up for yourself treasures in heaven”…(long and prepare for) “a heavenly Jerusalem…new Jerusalem.
Even the OT contains foretelling of the NT order of love and forgiveness toward earthly enemies: In the story of Jonah, Yahweh commands the Ioudaios prophet Jonah to go and spread news about Yahweh to the pagan tribe of the Ninevites. Jonah, steeped in disdain for goyim, disobeyed Yahweh, who punished Jonah by sending him to the belly of the whale. Further, while the Ioudaios were captive to the Babylonians, Yahweh commanded the Ioudaios to “pray for their captors.” (Ioudaios does not equal “Jew.”)
Above are two OT proof texts foretelling of the later NT command for followers of Christ to submit all earthly possessions including life to Christ, who is God incarnate. “He who possesses his life shall lose it, and he who loses his life shall find it.” People who fight endless undeclared wars are Satan’s minions. 250 year old USA has had less than 20 years not fighting war. Think about that.
Christ/God was crucified naked or almost on a cross, unlike the so-called “Evangelical Christian leaders” referred to above, driving Mercs and flying first class if not in private planes, some likely financed by the MIC.
Yes well Turks threw many many Christian Arabs out of Turkey many decades ago and the US turned a blind eye.
Turks invaded Cyprus and NATO turned a blind eye.
Turks antagonize Greece and NATO turns a blind eye.
Kurds are way down on the list of problems where the Turkish allies are concerned. Too bad for them, sorry, moving on now
TRUMP TOWERS INSTANBUL..
IS POSSIBLE FACTOR IN TRUMP’S RASH DECISION
A conflict of interest..?? One wouldn’t be too cynical in drawing that conclusion. Surprisingly mainstream media has yet to play up this angle. But the appearance that a conflict of interest looms is inescapable.
https://www.trump.com/residential-real-estate-portfolio/trump-towers-istanbul-turkey
“But the appearance that a conflict of interest looms is inescapable.”
You are looney. Your post is embarrassing.
Ivan, if you think Trump is blind to his interests, you’re in a parallel universe.
Incirlik, and all what it represents, not trump towers, is the relevant concern
you scoundrels will exaggerate anything into a false charge of “conflict of interest”
TRUMP TOWERS IS THE WORRY? OH NOT QUITE!
Incirlik Air Base (Turkish: İncirlik Hava Üssü) (IATA: UAB, ICAO: LTAG) is a Turkish air base of slightly more than 3320 ac (1335 ha),[1] located in the İncirlik quarter of the city of Adana, Turkey. The base is within an urban area of 1.7 million people,[2] 10 km (6 mi) east of the city core, and 32 km (20 mi) inland from the Mediterranean Sea. The United States Air Force and the Turkish Air Force are the primary users of the air base, although it is at times also used by the Royal Air Force and the Royal Saudi Air Force. Also, the base is the home of the 74th Anti-aircraft Artillery Regiment (Patriot Unit) of the Spanish Army.[3][4]
Incirlik Air Base is the home of the 10th Air Wing (Ana Jet Üs or AJÜ) of the 2nd Air Force Command (Hava Kuvvet Komutanlığı) of the Turkish Air Force (Türk Hava Kuvvetleri). Other wings of this command are located in Merzifon (LTAP), Malatya/Erhaç (LTAT) and Diyarbakır (LTCC).[5]
Incirlik Air Base has a U.S. Air Force complement of about five thousand airmen, with several hundred airmen from the Royal Air Force and Turkish Air Force also present, as of late 2002. The primary unit stationed at Incirlik Air Base is the 39th Air Base Wing (39 ABW) of the U.S. Air Force. Incirlik Air Base has one 3,048 m (10,000 ft)-long runway,[6][7] located among about 57 hardened aircraft shelters. Tactical nuclear weapons are stored at the base.[8]
There is not a lot of surprise here. Trump has been planning this for over a year. Yes he has gotten a lot of push back (Mattis and Bolton are prime examples)–but it is not a surprise.
Maybe Trump is wrong. Obama did it and it was a disaster (and of course those on the left were strangely silent about that then). This is nothing new–Democrats also has no problem throwing South Vietnamese under the bus. Trump is getting it from both sides. But at least Trump has a rational reason (to keep our troops out of harms way) and is saying he will retaliate against the Turks if they target the Kurds.
I am not thrilled with the decision–but I get why he made this call. He is being consistent with what he promised in getting elected. It is hardly as foolhardy as being touted (although he could be wrong). It sucks to be a Kurd in Syria–but it sucks to be a parent with a gold star in their window too.
I support the Kurds. I do not want to completely abandon them. But I do not think we are committed to fight for them forever.
To those critics of Trump on this: Unless you are willing to sacrifice your own life or a life of a son or daughter–maybe you should rethink this one.
If not the Kurds, who?
If not now, when?
Funny!
You forgot the “sarc/off,” yes?
SLUMBERING REPUBLICANS WAKE UP..
WHEN TRUMP ATTEMPTS TO ABANDON KURDS
Thousands of Syrian Kurdish fighters gave their lives to help America defeat the Islamic State, but President Trump just decided to abandon the Kurds to their worst enemy, Turkish strongman Recep Tayyip Erdogan. This is good news for the Islamic State, which can mount its comeback more effectively if the Kurds are distracted. It is also good news for the Islamic Republic of Iran, which wants to turn Syria into a base for attacking Israel, something that will now be a lot easier.
Trump’s decision came out of the blue last night, in the form of a brief announcement from the office of the White House press secretary. Top national security officials had been working for months on an agreement with Turkey to prevent it from attacking the Kurds. That agreement appears to be dead.
The White House said Trump’s decision came after a phone call with Erdogan earlier on Sunday. This is actually the second time Trump has attempted a sudden reversal of his Syria policy after a phone call with Erdogan. Last December, the president said he was going to pull all U.S. troops out of Syria — they numbered about 2,000 at the time — and let Turkish forces deal with any remaining problems caused by the Islamic State.
That December reversal led Secretary of Defense James Mattis to resign in protest. Meanwhile, 42 Senate Republicans voted with 26 Democrats to condemn any “precipitous withdrawal” prior to the “enduring defeat” of ISIS. Slowly and quietly, Trump started to back away from his decision, although he never said he had changed his mind.
One reason that so many conservatives united against Trump’s decision is they understood that Erdogan is an adversary of the United States, even though Turkey remains part of NATO. Under previous leaders, Turkey had been a real ally. But Erdogan is an Islamist who has a long record of protecting extremists and terrorists, including members of Hamas directly responsible for murdering Israelis. Not surprisingly, the Turkish president is also a vicious anti-Semite who blames Jewish conspiracies for the economic chaos his own policies have created.
With regard to Syria in particular, Erdogan has a long record of sending money and weapons to extremist rebels, including those tied to Al Qaeda. Turkish intelligence even helped deliver the goods across the border. Just last month, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions on several Turkey-based financiers and currency exchanges for supporting the Islamic State.
Even so, yesterday’s announcement from the White House said, “Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years.” In other words, Trump is putting an arsonist in charge of putting out the fire.
Conservatives who opposed Trump’s planned withdrawal last December also understood that the president was dead wrong when he claimed that ISIS had been defeated. It was true that the U.S.-led coalition had put an end to the Islamic State’s ability to govern the territory it called the “caliphate.” However, it was clear that ISIS was already shifting to an insurgency based on guerrilla warfare. That insurgency has gotten progressively stronger over the past 10 months, yet Trump refuses to acknowledge the difference between dismantling the caliphate and defeating ISIS. Yesterday, he justified his latest reversal on Syria by insisting, “We quickly defeated 100 percent of the ISIS caliphate.”
Edited from: “Trump’s Syria Decision Is A Victory For America’s Enemies In The Middle East” by David Adesnik
FOX NEWS, 10/7/19
Regarding Above:
It is appalling that Trumpers on this thread would blindly support Trump’s rash and horribly ill-advised decision. The Kurds are holding up to 60,000 ISIS prisoners. They would have no choice but to release those prisoners if faced with a Turkish invasion.
let them give them over to the Shiites in Iraq. they will handle them, i’m sure. probably that’s where a lot of the mischief makers came from in the first place
Most Absurd reads a lot like Peter Shill.
What the hell part of the US Constitution giving sole NON-TRANSFERABLE power to declare war to the people’s representatives in Congress (not POTUS, did YOU MISS THAT THIS POWER IS EXCLUSIVE and NON-TRANSFERABLE) do you not understand?
There’s always a good reason to go to war. Convince Congress of it, and kaboom, YOU CAN HAVE YOUR FRIGGEN WAR!
What authority to promote war do you have to argue with the late, great US Marine Major General Smedley Butler?
David AChetnik wishes the US to remain in Syria forever perhaps
Did anybody notice that last week Syria which is actually a sovereign nation with a functioning government and a seasoned army, actually demanded the US leave?
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/09/29/syria-demands-withdrawal-of-all-american-turkish-forces/
That’s what your fake news is not telling you!
Maybe Trump is keeping us out of another war.
Democrats of today, never met a war they didn’t like! And some of the Republican quislings, too. Sit down and be quiet, fools!
Most(ly) absurd:
Yeah we should support the Maoist Kurds in their fight against our NATO ally, the Turks. Treaty much?
Mespo, the Kurds are Muslims. They have nothing to do with Mao. I don’t know how you could possibly form such an erroneous conclusion. What’s more, Turkey, under Erdogan, is a very dubious ally at best.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Have you ever heard of the PKK?
Ivan:
You beat me to it. Most(ly) Absurd knows nothing about the Kurds – obviously.
Here’s the proof:
“Second, the PKK follows Maoist ideology to the greatest possible extent.94
Abdullah Ocalan favored Maoism, finding the Marxist-Leninsts of the 1970s It is
possible that Ocalan first fell in with Marxist teachings as a student of political
science at Ankara University, which at that time was ideologically influenced by
the Marxist thought by some of its professors.95 Abdullah Ocalan was born and
raised in a village in southeastern Anatolia and personally experienced the rural
feudal values and the social structure of the area. When combined with his
education, his political ideas favored both Marxist revolution and Maoist guerilla
warfare tactics.96 Consequently, the PKK was designed to establish a left-wing
Kurdish state by liberating the so-called oppressed and exploited Kurdish workerpeasant alliance, where the peasantry would provide the manpower for the
people’s army.97 Since 1978, this vision has caused the deaths of more than
30,000 Kurdish peasants.98”
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/downloads/11099.pdf
Mespo, you’re quoting from a nonexistent source! ‘Who’ are they????
That was from a Naval War College paper but here’s an easier one:
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individuals/abdullah-ocalan/
Mespo:
Who’s “Discover Networks”?? How come you can’t quote from any recognizable sources?? Is the Kurdish sector of Iraq Maoist?? Show me photos of Kurds parading with Mao posters.
This sounds like Peter Hill.
ike i said peter a YPG fighter called into NPR today and basically confirmed they’re socialists with the former support of the Soviet Union
you’re displaying your vast ignorance of Syria, even as you call me dumb.
try and widen your sources past WAPO’s daily editorial page
here’s their flag. red field, yellow star. looks pretty “MAOIST” to me. compare flag of PRC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units#/media/File%3APeople's_Protection_Units_Flag_(2011-2012)_alternative.svg
look at their flag then peter. it’s obviously PRC inspired
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units#/media/File%3APeople's_Protection_Units_Flag_(2011-2012)_alternative.svg
Mespo, et al;
I’m thinking your memory is better then mine.
I think it was 1998, or so, the old media reported from I believe the FBI & CIA they believed that by around 2015 the US citizens would be in revolt.
I remember some thing of it because I remember thinking yes there’s some bad stuff going on but no way enough to cause everyone to revolt.
And I hoped not to go to hell, but I see every reason to revolt, maybe peacefully yet a revolt none the less could come any day if an attempt to or remove Trump. Removing Trump JFK style it’s a definite instant revolt after 30 seconds.
Anyway, go you remember that FBI/CIA warning/threat?
Oky1:
I do recall a report like that.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-warns-cops-about-potential-halloween-revolt-plot-n452796
Thanks.
It was kinda like that. I remember right after the Clinton’s & who ever blow the OKC Federal building the 1st thing Clinton/left did was to attack legal/lawful militias,( it’s in the Ok Constitution also a call for 2 types of militias) & also took away other citizens Rights.
I think maybe the point I was thinking was now looking back it wouldn’t surprise me now if the ABC agencies weren’t planning way back 20 years ago to bring their foreign coup operations back to the nest, the USA.
oh on the contrary, Peter.
today at 10:30 EST a former YPG “International fighter” with an accent, speaking perfect university English, told the NPR lady that the Kurds were mostly socialists. that the only time they had support it was from the Soviets, and that they fully expected the US imperialist troublemakers to pull out.
Go look it up on the NPR website and get a reply. they most certainly are marxists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units
they support the PKK which for a long time if not still was classified by state dept as a terror org. That’s who the turks want to root out.
I say withdraw from this hornet’s nest and let them sort it out.
im not sure why my links to the YPG flag don’t post. IT’s a red field with one yellow star.
Obviously copied from the PRC flag but what do I know.
Doesn’t seem like an erroneous inference to me!
This decision did not come “out of the blue.” Trump has been floating it for over a year.
Republicans better STFU and not give Trump a lot of trouble, or Republicans will find we peasants pointing pitchforks at their yellow bellies. That especially goes for kooky old Pat Robertson whose kids need to get into to see the cognitive specialist.
Here is a great example of the pure destruction that partisan has caused. Why shold we stay and fight anyone, or keep peace between anyone in Syria?
Now that John Brennan’s acolyte cells have been activated at the White House, the President has no reason at all, in fact, quite the opposite, to listen to National Security staff when it comes to Syria. For all he knows they want him to stay there and get bogged down so that the Democrats can point out ISIS is not defeated.
This is a betrayal of Allies you say? Which ones? We were helping people fight ISIS. That included Kurds, Shia, and Sunni fighters in the countries of Syria and Iraq. Did everyone just plain forget that Turkey (as much as I am not a fan of the Turks and them even being in the organization) happen to be a member of NATO. So are we betraying NATO allies, or Kurds, or Sunni’s, and Shia’s?
ISIS may be resurgent you say? OK, let Assad, Russia, and the Turks get in on the killing then. They want it, they can have it. Are the Kurds even a country? No. Would I like us to support our Kurdish allies? Yes.
Well, drop the nonsense impeachment push and let Congress declare an actual war on ISIS, it’s off shoots, and the rest of Islamic extremism. That is a sure fire way to keep troops in Syria. In fact, we can send 50,000 or 100,000 of them. Why? Because if you want to be involved in a Middle East war, f-ing do it. Be committed. Put the big guns in, go big or go home intead of putting a couple thousand that effectively can do nothing but put up signs that say, “Americans right here, please go around.”
We have a few thousand or so troops, in the middle of a foreign country’s Civil War, without that country’s permission. That country has Iranian and Russian troops there with permission, and now we want to be in the middle of another decades old war between Turkey (a NATO ally) and the Kurds (A good ally against insurgents and ISIS, but not a NATO Ally).
I don’t know about you but I believe after WWII we built a little International Agency that was supposed to handle all this type of shit. I believe we called it the United Nations. I believe that if you would like to keep peace between the Kurds, and Turkey that would be a good job for that organization instead of the U.S. of Do everything. I think it is about time that the UN, and all those countries not named the USA should actually do something about the world’s ills intead of talking about how they will pawn them all onto us.
Impeach! Early and often.
Perhaps Professor Turley will be happier with this “orange” man’s approach to dealing with Turkey:
In a move that reportedly shocked U.S. military and diplomatic officials, President Donald Trump suddenly caved to Turkish demands and ordered U.S. troops to pull back from the areas held by our Kurdish allies. The move is being widely denounced by both Democrats and Republicans as an abandonment of allies who have fought along side with us for years.
Yet another pile of horse cocky served up steaming hot for a knee-jerk push-button response in attempting to remove American sons/daughters from harms-way.
What US national security interests are at stake in Syria that American sons/daughters should be sacrificed upon the blood soaked altar of war?
None, zero, zip, zing, nada there are no US national security interests at stake in Syria.
There are no US interests in Syria worth one American life.
The number one reason US sons/daughters are being offered in sacrifice is to mollify Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The number two reason is weapons sales. The merchants of death cannot pass up the potential for profit so off our sons/daughters go to be used as poverty draft cannon fodder in the furtherance of a stillborn fools-errand of a dysfunctional policy based wholly upon lies.
The worthless chicken hawk draft dodging deferment kings/queens in Washington DC and their aiding/abetting stenographers in the media think nothing of sending other peoples children off to do their bidding whether it is Iraq, Somalia, Syria, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Ukraine, Colombia (etc).
Can anyone articulate even one US national security interest at stake – worth the life of one American – in any of the above nations?
There is a term civilized nations use when confronted with such egregious displays of wanton bloodlust where a powerful nation attempts to bend other weaker nations to it’s will using the defective technique of might makes right:
war crimes.
If there were even an ounce of justice to be found on this planet the US war criminals responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of innocents worldwide 1947 – present (eg sanctions, bombings, terror campaigns, assassinations, torture, indefinite incognito/incommunicado detention without charge, etal) would be tried before a jury of their peers and sentenced to life in a cage.
If the war criminals in DC believe in genuflecting to Israel and Saudi Arabia is such a great idea then they should lead by example and volunteer themselves and their children for the meat grinder.
Evidently ‘personanongrata’ is Princess Trohar’s alternate handle.
Well, why don’t you bet $10,000 cash and we’ll prove you’re wrong dumb nutz? Put up or shut your stupid pie hole, liar! Turley can confirm the fact, winnings to winner’s favorite legal charity. I’ll get the money within 24 hours, pig head.
What part of the US Constitution giving sole exclusive non-transferable power to the people’s direct representatives in Congress do you deny/spit on, and/or not understand? I guess it’s news to war mongers like yourself that the founding fathers wrote this specifically to deny POTUS (not directly elected) the powers of the British King, who declared war for any whim.