Harvard Professor Alan Dershowitz once dared his accusers to sue him in the ongoing controversy over his role in the alleged abuse of underaged girls in the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. One did just that. Virginia Giuffre has claimed that she was forced to have sex as an underaged girl with friends and acquaintances of Epstein, including Dershowitz. Dershowitz called her a liar on multiple occasions, including statements he never met Giuffre and that she is a “serial perjurer,” a “serial liar,” and a “serial prostitute.” She sued him for defamation and U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska in New York has rejected Dershowitz’s motion to dismiss and held that Dershowitz will have to face a trial on her claims. Former judge Paul Cassell has also leveled charges against Dershowitz as one of the abusers.
Dershowitz has emphatically denied the allegation and, while admitting that he accepted a massage, he insisted that he “kept my underwear on.”
U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska also ruled that Giuffre will have to find new counsel because David Boies and his law firm, Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, are now witnesses in the case and thus barred from representing her.
Both decisions were clearly correct on the law in my view.
Dershowitz will now face a full trial that will focus on whether the allegations of his abuse of the underaged girl was clearly a lie. Truth is a defense to defamation, but that will require a full airing of the underlying allegations. It is the trial that Dershowitz had publicly called for but later sought to avoid through a motion to dismiss.
It will be hard to untangle the issue from the underlying allegation against Dershowitz. The jury will have to decide if Giuffre was clearly lying. He could try to focus on specific statements and the involvement of her lawyers. However, it would seem that the full scope of the available evidence related to Epstein would be material. One thing that will not be likely admitted is the lie detector test that Boies insisted Giuffre passed on the underlying allegations.
For their part, the lawyers at Boies Schiller Flexner LLP announced that they will appeal.
“Alan Dershowitz prepares countersuit…”
https://pagesix.com/2019/10/18/alan-dershowitz-preps-counter-suit-against-alleged-jeffrey-epstein-victim/
“Lawyers representing Alan Dershowitz filed a legal letter Friday indicating they’re planning a countersuit against Jeffrey Epstein’s “sex slave” Virginia Giuffre for defamation.
The move comes after a Manhattan federal judge ruled Giuffre can move forward with her defamation lawsuit against Dershowitz — but that she’ll have to find new representation. (She was repped by David Boies, but Dershowitz intends to call lawyers from Boies’ firm as witnesses in his case.)
A letter from Dershowitz’s lawyers at Aidala, Bertuna & Kamins to Judge Loretta Preska filed Friday requested an adjournment of a discovery conference in the case until Dec. 2, but also revealed: “In the interim, Mr. Dershowitz will file his answer to the plaintiff’s complaint and assert counterclaims for defamation and other tortious conduct against plaintiff seeking substantial damages.”
The letter said the adjournment is requested because his lawyers Arthur Aidala and Imran Ansari will be traveling during a scheduled Nov. 20 hearing — but would also “allow plaintiff to confer with her new counsel about the full scope of this case, and will allow counsel for both parties to confer more meaningfully.”
Aidala commented further, “We can now file a counterclaim. We are moving forward emboldened … [Dershowitz] has been fighting these charges since the first time they were levied against him … Our next step is — we’ve been on defense, and now we’re going on offense, with all the tools and talents we have before us to clear Mr. Dershowitz’s good name.”
Dershowitz told us he’ll invite the FBI to his trial. “The goal is simple: to have the truth come out. I have nothing to hide,” he said.”
With Dersh admitting that he received a massage from this girl stripped down to his undies in his friend’s private home, and the same girl having accused both Epstein and Dersh of underage sex, I don’t see how Dersh has a leg to stand on in having acted as Epstein’s lawyer in 2008 to obtain a federal NPA where “all associates” were also made non-prosecutable. Dersh seems to have engaged in self-dealing (representing his own interest in avoiding prosecution) while also acting as Epstein’s lawyer. I think he’s in deep water.
Where’d those hanging chads go?
So, what is the Age of Consent for massages???
Whatever, I don’t think Dershowitz is a massagegynist or anything. But I hear Al Gore is. . . Anyway, this stuff gets my poetic juices to flowing!
People Who Knead People???
An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm
A massage is just a massage-
Unless it devolves to frottage!
But deciding intent,
Could be time not well spent,
When those undies provide camouflage!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – you owe me a new keyboard. 😉
Thank you PaulCS!!! I am glad you liked it!
BTW, I am reading Dead Wake by Larsen. You recommended it like a year ago, and I have had it sitting around since then. It is a fantastic book!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – enjoy 🙂
Does anyone have a link to the exact allegations against Dershowitz?
I am particularly concerned with the accusation that this woman was forced to sleep with Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew. Neither strike me as someone who would forcibly assault a girl and physically overpower them. In fact, I was able to find her description of the encounter with Prince Andrew, in which the prince did not force her to do anything.
Was it other people coercing her? Cajoling her? Blackmailing her? Grooming her? What was the leverage used, and who was using it? Was this a girl who ended up in prostitution, and lost her youth, or someone who was kidnapped? Did she tell any of the men she slept with that she was underage? Did she behave like she did not want to be there? I assume that if she gave Dershowitz a massage, she was not behaving like someone who was being forced to be there.
The realm of possibilities is vast:
1. She was groomed by traffickers, willingly had sex with whomever she was directed to, and then gravely regretted it when she came to her senses.
2. She was threatened in some manner to have sex with people, and act like she wanted to be there.
3. She was forcibly assaulted by these men, including Prince Andrew, which would of course mean she didn’t give a massage to anyone.
4. She was lured in by the money, and access to famous people, and joined the wave of courtesans and groupies. After having slept with multiple rich men, she felt taken advantage of.
5. Was this in Dershowitz’s home or orgy island?
There are two very different types of women who travel the circuit with the wealthy as a means to get access to rich men, doing the rounds of Gstaad, the Mediterranean Milk Run, Cannes, Monaco, Ascot, the South of France, Dubai…
One set of girls have no idea how to behave, and desperately try to sleep around with rich men to try to land one. They gush like fans, ask them all about what they do for a living and if they have a yacht. Those are the hangers-ons you see in yachts with playboys who treat them like kleenex to be used and discarded. They have affairs with married men. No one respects them, not the rich men, and certainly not any woman of class. These women are completely used, and they don’t understand that the way they are going about this will never, ever, net them a wealthy husband. They are more like groupies.
The other set of women do not come from a wealthy background, but want to actually join that social circle as peers. They learn how to dress and behave like people of consequence, and groom themselves to attract a mate with high earning potential and security. Both groups of women have the goal to get a wealthy boyfriend or husband, as a preferred quality in a mate, but the former lack self respect, standards, and reek of desperation.
Living in CA, you see this behavior not only with the rich, but also actors. It is possible that this is how Epstein tailored his grooming technique to traffic girls, get them star struck, overwhelmed with the glitz and the glamor. Part of the grooming process is to lower inhibitions and convince the victim that it is acceptable.
Take a look at this advertisement for a spa in Charleston, with a woman getting a massage by a young blond woman by the beach. Do you know how old the masseuse is? Neither do I! I’m not picking on this salon. It was a random internet search, and they look perfectly legitimate. The point is you have no idea your masseuse’s age other than their physical appearance.
https://charlestonhealinghands.com
Hi Karen, I’m sorry, I do like your post. I try to be respectful of others unless being attacked (I’m talking to you, the other Anonymous who likes to troll).
But under No. 1, being groomed and being willing, should not even be in the same sentence.
It would be more accurate to say, she was groomed, and due to it, she was brainwashed, but certainly not willing…it would be more along the lines of acquiescence via brainwashing.
To groom, means to chip away at someones sense of self-respect, that they are left with none. This also means no boundaries, no self-esteem. At this point, you have someone that cannot say, “No.”.
I.e., a narcissistic parent/employee/mother in law/brother/sister/friend, you name it, with malice, could attempt to trauma bond you to them with the “push and pull” game, that it leaves the victim dazed and confused.
“Well, I like the person, they did buy me that nice gift…but you know, then they turned around a broke my _fill in the blank_ when I wasn’t looking, and then claimed they didn’t do it.”
“So, do they like me bc of the carrot? Or do they hate me bc of the stick? Did they like me and then I did something wrong, so now, I am getting the stick? Do I need to try harder? What did I say to upset them? Maybe they’re not upset at all?”
Do you see the back and forth dialogue of the victim…?
It’s a technicality, though I feel it necessary.
How many years stale is that allegation. The question is: ‘If true can this judge prove the experience or if not true prove the false charge either one did NOT influence her court decisions?
Second question. Why does covering up this type of crime not make the individual an accessory?
Hard Questions. But ones that have to be asked.
So Dershowitz admits: 1. knowing the girl; 2. being alone with her; 3. stripping down to his underwear, and 4. accepting a “massage”. So, the only question is whether this encounter went further than a mostly-naked massage of an older man by an underage girl.. Actually, there could be sexual conduct with his underwear on–what parts of him did she “massage”?. Did he touch her? Was she dressed at all? He doesn’t say.
This case is much stronger than people like Karen want to believe. This isn’t a case where: 1. he didn’t know Epstein; 2. never met the accuser; 3. never was in a position where a sexual assault (which is what it would be because she was underage) could have happened. He admits he was stripped down to his underwear and was massaged by an underage girl. The details are all that are really in dispute, and given the plethora of evidence by other women who were underage at the time when they were abused in Epstein’s mansion, this is far from a “he said….she said” situation. I believe her. What was this middle-aged man doing stripping down to his skivvies and letting an underage girl touch him, anyway? Those facts alone stink to high heaven.
There are lots of reasons why young girls who have been assaulted don’t come forward immediately. Epstein knew how to pick them: they were all vulnerable because of broken homes or family strife. After getting lured by the promise of something innocuous: in this case, help with their career, since most or all of them attended the N.Y. School for the Performing Arts (which was just down the street from Epstein’s mansion), and were assured by Ghislane Maxwell that Epstein would help them get their careers started because he had connections, girls like these victims feel guilty–like it is somehow their own fault that they got taken advantage of because they should have known better. Then, there are the repercussions of the shame, their family being embarrassed, scorn from their peers, and being put through the wringer with being called liars. Predators like Epstein know all of this, and that’s how they get away with it. But, they never really get over it. Their self-esteem is in the toilet because their innocence was stolen from them with their consent (even though they didn’t have the maturity to consent), but doing something about it comes at a steep price, one that many of them can’t do because they don’t have the self-confidence or support systems it takes.
Natacha – I never take my underwear off when getting a massage.
Do you receive massages from underage girls who aren’t trained or licensed as masseurs?
Natacha – I only get massages when I am treated for injuries. I assume they have a licences and 9 times out of 10 they are male in their 30-40s.
Well, then, it isn’t a comparable situation, now, is it? How dumb would someone need to be not to see what’s really going on when mostly naked middle aged man is being massaged in a private residence by an underage girl who is not a massage therapist or licensed masseur?
Natacha – having taught high school, I would be hard pressed to guess the exact age of my female students in the classroom and it would be worse outside the classroom. I think it is Brad Pitt in Once Upon A Time In Hollywood who has the same problem with one of the Manson girls. He is savvy enough to handle it well, at least in the movie. 😉
Natacha – how was this presented? Did she say she was underage, she was not a massage therapist, and what was she wearing? In addition, a massage with no sexual contact is not illegal, no matter what they are wearing, just like your waitress from hooters can legally serve you dinner wearing short shorts and a crop top.
Over the years, I’ve had physical therapy massages from male and female physical therapists. Some of the women who have worked in the PT section of my chiropractor’s office looked rather young, like recent graduates. I don’t card anyone, and as stated above, it was PT.
Likewise, if you get a facial, you’re in a room alone with a female, likely, soft music playing, sometimes with a facial massage or exfoliation. It’s just a facial, and I’ve never questioned the aestheticians about their age. Why would I? One of them could claim that anything happened 20 years ago, and there would be nothing the accused could do about it.
This could go either way, but one of them is lying. I have observed men lie about cheating, and women lie. I have seen women get fake IDs, go into clubs when they are underage, and give their phone numbers to the men they meet who assume they are of age. The range of human behavior is complex.
What matters is that this claim is treated fairly, no matter who is not telling the truth.
George: there are cases in which the accused male denies even knowing the accuser, and there is no evidence linking him to her or the location of the assault. We don’t have that here because Dershowitz admits he knew her, stripped down to his drawers and she “massaged” him. The only thing disputed here is whether sexual things happened in addition to the massage. Then, there are the dozens of other women who have testified about what went on in Lolita Mansion.
I periodically get physical therapy massages, especially if I come off a horse. The therapist is male. So…basically, I have been in a situation where I’m in a dimmed therapy room, lying on my stomach, in only my underwear, with a sheet over my lower extremities, soft music playing…in excruciating pain as he works at the pulled muscles or puts hot stones on my back. It’s not sexual. It’s rather painful physical therapy.
Applying the logic seen on the blog, I could accuse this poor man of anything I wanted, and he’d have to admit that, yes, we were in a room together and I was not fully dressed. I believe this is why OB/GYNs now require a female nurse to accompany them at all times when examining a patient. Otherwise, they could be in a he said she said scenario with no means to defend themselves.
People seem to be in a rush to jump to conclusions. I don’t know what happened between those two, and neither does anyone else. It should be investigated, of course.
So Dershowitz admits: 1. knowing the girl; 2. being alone with her; 3. stripping down to his underwear, and 4. accepting a “massage”.
No, he admits to receiving a massage from a person on the island.
Maybe he’s innocent, but what kind of guy gets in his underwear with a young – underage? – nubile woman for a “massage”? I’m a guy. I’m not doing that without expectations and dreams. I don’t like massages, so I’m not doing that at all, but still.
Anon – you can’t get a message without getting down to your underwear. They can’t reach your sciatic very well otherwise, or your hip flexor. Plus you would probably just get oil on your clothes.
I am not saying that Dershowitz is telling the truth. I’m saying that the justice system, to date, has made it clear that an accusation should not automatically be taken as true.
If I understand this – and maybe I don’t – he was in a room alone with a very young woman. We’re not talking about an experienced masseuse who happens to be of the opposite sex.
“Very young?” How old was she at the time?
Karen: yes, you can, which I know because I have had a male Chinese masseur provide deep spinal and tissue massage to me, fully clothed.
I’m beginning to appreciate the mentality of Trump supporters. Facts and inferences simply don’t faze them: they are true believers.
You could also take a shower fully clothed, but most people don’t.
Anon1 – speak for yourself. I expect to get a massage.
Natacha, I could go into a room with you, and then 15 years later make up any claim I wanted. You could never prove you didn’t do it.
You don’t seem overly concerned with justice.
Neither party can prove what happened beyond their ability to convince a judge or jury.
IMO, a guy who admits he got in his underwear to get a massage from a very young woman in a private room has dug himself a well deserved hole.
Look Karen, just imagine it’s Hunter Biden.
If Hunter Biden was accused by someone from 20 years ago, whiteout evidence, I would say the same thing. Investigate it, but don’t assume an accusation is true.
You know…justice.
In Hunter Biden’s case, I have called for an investigation based on remarks both the Bidens made on camera.
Investigation by who for what?
What self incriminating words?
IMO, a guy who admits he got in his underwear to get a massage from a very young woman in a private room has dug himself a well deserved hole.
Your opinion isn’t worth anything.
Of course, Did you try to get $2 off the early bird special with one of mine before?
Christine Ballsey Ford, Twana Brawley, Duke LaCrosse – it happens all the time. It seems that women have been gifted or legislated an unfair advantage. Didn’t the standard used to be that an accuser stands up in open court and directly confronts the accused with plausible, tangible or, otherwise, verifiable evidence? Women have been given a powerful tool of destruction that they wield anonymously.
___________________________________________________________________________
“That dudn’t make any sense.”
– George W. Bush
How in the world could anyone prove what did, or did not, happen in a room years ago, without any evidence, or video? It’s an indefensible claim. She could say he did just about anything, and he could say she’s lying, and there seems to be no way for anyone to know what the truth is.
I assume this must have happened years ago, past the statute of limitations. Otherwise, there would be a criminal case.
It bears repeating: If someone is the victim of a sexual assault, or statutory rape, and do not report it immediately, then evidence is lost. Without corroborating evidence, it becomes a he said, she said case. There might have been a very good reason for why the victim did not report, such as being underage and not emotionally prepared, or not knowledgable about what to do. Or the person might have made the entire thing up. If someone chooses not to go to the police, then they are also choosing the subsequent ramifications – loss of evidence, loss of opportunity to convict.
In the priest pedophilia cases, there were multiple witnesses with the same stories. People could describe identifying marks, or the inside of a priest’s room. People had similar stories that had not been made public or shared. Even then, it is tragically difficult at times to prove or disprove very serious allegations.
I agree with the other posters that Alan Dershowitz should have his day in court. I just find these he said she said cases very troubling and unsatisfying. It is chilling to think that someone could make a false accusation against you from years ago, and there might be no possibility of disproving it. After all, a negative is virtually impossible to prove. I have no idea if the allegations are true or not. I do hope they are not, as I quite like Dershowitz.
Dershowitz pretended he wanted his day in court until he got it.
In the priest pedophilia cases, there were multiple witnesses with the same stories.
No, not typically. Most priests had one accuser and accusations were more often than not filed 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years after the fact.
How would you know?
Give us some stats; give us some facts.
This is to “This is absurd…” @ 12:19 pm,
“Bishops Accused of Sexual Abuse and Misconduct”
“A Global Accounting”
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/bishops/accused/global_list_of_accused_bishops.htm
TIA – I agree that pedophilia accusations made against priests were typically long after the fact. That length of time passing was the common thread in more recent headline accusations.
Studies show that male pedophiles attracted to male children tend to be more prolific, having more victims, than those attracted to female children, who more often pray upon relatives.
I don’t have a percentage, but have followed the Church scandal closely. Most of the cases that I read about had multiple victims.
I agree in general about these type of allegations being so difficult to prove/defend. I’m a fan of Dershowitz when it comes to his fight for our fundamental rights. Even child abusers deserve legal representation. However, to accept a massage from such a young woman at the behest of an accused/convicted child abuser strikes me as wildly inappropriate. It’s ridiculous that he would do this.
This allegedly occurred many years before Epstein was accused, let alone convicted.
He used to know many famous people.
Again, Dershowitz visits were ca. 1999. Epstein’s conviction was logged in 2008. Since when has it been established that he accepted a ‘massage’ from an underage female?
In the defamation cases I’ve tried –both from the defense and plaintiff POV — it’s the Plaintiff who’s on trial in these cases as truth is an absolute defense. Dershowitz might actually prove she’s a liar, as seems likely, and have his own case against her and her lawyers.
Maybe he can get Rudy G to represent him. Or any of Trump’s lawyers will do.
He had a massage? That means he was there. Where there’s smoke, there’s sometimes fire. And he used to be buddies with the Clintons. He’s probably wishing he never went on that flight.
Epstein was one of his clients. Dershowitz’ wife and daughter also traveled to the island.
I think the credibility of various accusers has been undermined by flight logs and other documentary evidence. I’m not understanding your precis. She sued him. The burden of proof is on her.
I haven’t followed that story. Just surprised he was there.
These evil pedophiles are going down. Here is Bill Gates: {Bill Gates}, “told Gates Foundation employees Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes were “NO WORSE THAN STEALING A BAGEL.” (See this on Elizabeth Lea Vos twitter, from the inventor of e-mail.) If you read Whitney Webb you see that there are many highly placed individuals, both female and male, who raped girls using Epstein’s rape/procurment ring. There is evidence against Alan and I am glad this will come out in this suit.
All these powerful people claim they only recently met Epstein. That isn’t true. Scrubbed documents have been found. There is a suit in France. Information is coming out.
Of course Alan deserves a trial. Let the evidence speak. This is Webb’s latest report. There are 5 or 6 others written before this:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/scrubbed-reports-reveal-new-secrets-of-the-prince-andrew-jeffrey-epstein-relationship/262330/
Neither Epstein nor anyone in his social circle who partook of this qualified as ‘pedophiles’. The females in question were adolescent girls around age 17, not prepubescent children.
Correct in psychological terms, but legally your going to jail.
Whether or not ‘you’re going to jail’ depends on a number of unspecified ifs, such as where the age of consent is set in that particular jurisdiction and what you had reason to know when. (Epstein’s been out of business for 11 years, so prosecution of these cases would be time-barred most places).
Virginia Giuffre was born in 1983. Something occurring at Epstein’s residence in New York would not be defined as a criminal act if it occurred after her 17th birthday, which occurred on mm / dd / 2000. If the age of consent were the only issue and she were past her 15th birthday (as she has contended she was when she met Epstein), it would be defined as a class A misdemeanor in New York (if the other party was over the age of 21; were he under 21 there would be no criminal liability). It’s unusual for people without priors to be incarcerated consequent to misdemeanor charges in New York.
Flight logs with Dershowitz name on them are dated Oct. 1998 and April 1999, but no ‘Virginia’ or ‘VR’ is listed as a passenger on those flights. One of the few she does appear on from prior to 2001 was a flight taken in November 2000.
TIA – thanks for posting her birth year. As I don’t have the original complaint, I am unclear if the alleged incident happened at Epstein’s house or island. Do you know which?
I meant to add that NY’s age of consent laws allowed Jerry Seinfeld to date a 17 year old he later married.
My money is on Dershowitz! He has always seemed like a very professional person. and smart. Way too smart to get blown by a Lolita. Maybe a massage. . . Whatever, it should be an epic legal battle! Hmmm. Maybe it needs an Irish Poem!
Coming to Blows???
An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm
Sooo, Dershowitz called her a liar –
And she found her a lawyer for hire!
Did she service his “stub”???
Aye! There’s the rub!
A “Happy Ending” could really be dire!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
*Some massages have “Happy Endings.” Look it up!
Thanks Squeeky for my morning laugh!
Thank you, Deb!!! I am glad you liked it!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Just like Trump I think Alan should get his day in court.