Academia, Criminal law

Oregon Professor Arrested in Portland Riot
downloadAmong those arrested this week in Portland is an Oregon professor, OHSU Assistant Professor Daniel Liefwalker. Liefwalker was arrested around 3 a.m. for trespassing, a class C misdemeanor, according the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Department’s website.  We have discussed how universities should respond to faculty engaged in criminal conduct.  I have advocated, including in recent Senate testimony, that faculty members who engage in violence on campus should be fired. I do not believe such a response would be appropriate based on these facts.We previously discussed the controversial decision of Oregon to honor a California professor who assaulted pro-life demonstrators on campus. In contrast, this does not appear a case of a violent academic.

The police did declare a riot and Liefwalker was apparently present as violent acts were committed, including projectiles being thrown at police.  However, the charge does not indicate that he was personally involved in a violent act. It is also not clear that he was a participant in the protest as opposed to being present at the scene as an observer.  This is the type of charge that comes with the refusal to heed warnings to disperse.  As such, it is technically a criminal act but it is closer to a non-violent form of civil disobedience.

We have often discussed how free speech is being curtailed by universities by disciplining students and faculty members for their speech outside of schools, particularly on social media. I would include demonstrations in such exercise of free speech.

Some 23 people were arrested, including some for “unlawful assembly.” Assuming that Liefwalker does not face a charge of violence, I would strongly encourage the school to treat this as a matter outside of the scope of university review or action.

66 thoughts on “Oregon Professor Arrested in Portland Riot”

  1. I had never heard of OHSU (Oregon Health & Science University) and discovered that it’s the University’s policy to be even dumber and woker than your average university, I mean by a significant margin.

    https://www.ohsu.edu/

    This prof. was probably required to be at the riots.

  2. Riots depend on two things: how dense the population is and how dense the population is.

  4. Who continue to send their children to American universities and colleges?

    Oh, yeah, huh, their parents.

    Dang!

  5. Look, Prof. Turley, one who refuses to disperse when a riot is declared and other persons are engaging in assaultive acts actually aids the more heinous miscreants.

  6. This is fantastic! Another “mostly peaceful” protest and protester gone awry.

    Did anyone see this headline from RT?

    https://www.rt.com/usa/498954-kenosha-rioters-no-remorse-arson/

    Seems like being “good whites” with their BLM signs did not keep their Unitarian Universalist Church from getting torched. These morally superior “good whites” deserve everything that happens to them. Will they learn anything? Naw, they will just blame themselves and their “white privilege”.

    antonio

      1. @ anonymous

        This is why the Brave Masked Wonderful Warriors of Antifa ™ or BLM tend not to leave liberal, urban areas. I would advise them to go back to Madison, Portland or Chicago.

        I truly hate violence, abhor it, have no criminal record, not even a misdemeanor but I can tell you as a certainty, if anyone comes to my home at an inopportune time and threatens my family or me (i.e. 3 am while performing a B&E or robbery), it will not end well for them.

        And I really don’t care if some s@@tlib won’t invite me to their cocktail parties for saying so.

        antonio

  7. Chances are that even if he were arrested for trying to light the administration on fire, he wouldn’t be fired.

  9. Not all the facts are known and will not be until a trial is held. Once that has been completed, then the school should act based on that outcome.

  10. I think the University should treat it as harshly as possible. The professor was aiding and abetting criminal acts. He is lucky he got away with trespassing.

  11. If two people rob a store and, unbeknownst to one, the other pulls a gun and kills the store clerk, both can be charged with murder even if the accomplice intended only to rob. Isn’t the principle the same here? The professor committed an illegal act (failure to disperse after a riot is declared) after which a felony assault occurred. If the professor was actively remaining with the rioting people instead of trying to leave, I would hold him responsible for the assault. Even if the principle is not the same, have universities shed standards of behavior for their faculty? Unlike civil disobedience, a riot is a very bad thing and anyone who takes part in it should face consequences.

    1. See Robert Bork on civil disobedience. He said as far as he could recall, MLK did not advocate civil disobedience for aught but to challenge particular laws. It’s used far more promiscuously today. It actually is bad, and should generally be treated harshly.

      1. absurd x– I think the thing that made civil disobedience (selectively used) effective was that those who participated did so with the expectation that they would be punished and a willingness to accept that punishment. Abe Fortas wrote a monograph about it which stressed that point. No matter how much a person might disagree with how the activists disobeyed, it was hard to doubt the sincerity of their actions. And, back then, the “crimes” that were committed for the most part had to do with peacefully disobeying racist laws. What we have today is criminal disobedience, and far from any willingness to accept punishment, the leaders justify the dangerous and destructive crimes as “reparations” or some other such nonsense.

        1. Given that they’re out there every night protesting a fictional problem, adding vandalism and arson to the mix, and assaulting federal officers, you have to ask what a putatively intelligent state employee who is 45 frigging years old things he’s doing. You can say there’s a free speech issue in there. Kinda twee to bring it up, though.

          1. These are just youngsters letting off some steam. I’m sure they’ll grow out of it.

        2. Thoreau helped set the standard during the Mexican-American war, jailed for peacefully and morally opposing it. A friend visiting him asked him why he was behind bars and he responded by asking the friend why he wasn’t behind bars. He didn’t destroy things but he took a moral stand knowing he would be jailed.

          Compared to Thoreau the protesters of today seem like poisonous, infected vermin.

    2. I agree with the general thrust of your argument, not knowing the law, but meaning to agree on what you’re suggesting as sensible here.

      I find it stunning how often Turley crawls out on a limb in favor of leftist-insurrection, trying to hyper-extend “free speech” into a realm of people who openly court or toy with violence.

      This is no longer an academic question, with our cities burning down around us, yet Turley continues to fail to see how dangerous it is to over-lawyer fringe cases when someone is involved in a civil disturbance, has been warned to leave, and does not comply, whilst others in the near vicinity are violently rioting.

      Turley betrays an ivory tower insouciance to on-the-ground reality and the need for civilization to “defend itself in depth” with more than micron-width radius when there is revolution tearing through our streets.

      If these were right-wing revolutionaries, I find it highly implausible Turley would be so precious in parsing whether people who didn’t obey police commands in a context of burning buildings, officers attacked, widespread looting and mayhem etc….

  12. The four cops that were involved in the killing of George Floyd weren’t charged until the protests got violent. Then after a week or more of increasing violence, the charges were upped. This was an example of those in charge responding to public opinion. Along with the rioters came millions of ‘likes’ through polling and reporting. There is the moral argument and there is the will of the people argument. Ideally the will of the people will mirror the moral argument. Unfortunately many dregs of society attach themselves to morally driven protests, for no other reason than their own perverse venting. Those dregs when identified as looters, vandals, and arsonists and are apprehended should be charged and punished to the fullest extent of the law possible. The effectiveness of basic rights of protest depend on this.

    Unfortunately those that supposedly represent the will of the people are sidelined by special interest groups and oligarchs. One contributing ingredient to the racist police brutality is the power of the police union. The police unions have gotten out of control. A union is supposed to represent its members regarding compensation, working conditions, and legal representation. One recurring situation imposed upon society by the police union immunity conditions is the inability to get rid of the wrong sort. The police should never have the right to keep their work history out of a review of work. Chauvin was called up on the rug 20 times before he killed Floyd. Either he should have been bounced a long time ago or his attitude addressed and altered. As it was, it was left to him to determine what was right and wrong. First should come the laws and appropriate police behavior; then the police.

    1. “The four cops that were involved in the killing of George Floyd weren’t charged until the protests got violent. Then after a
      **********************
      Or mob rule. By the way, those cops are going to be acquitted, so what will you say then?

      1. Then, America hasn’t seen anything yet when it comes to ‘protesting’. They are going to get jail: Chauvin at least ten years, the others five apiece with maybe one getting two years. Hopefully this sets a standard limiting police brutality. The big win will be to get rid of immunity conditions when determining whether or not a ‘Chauvin’ should stay on the force. Even the owner of the club where Chauvin worked security said that she had to reprimand him on occasion for using pepper spray on people at the club. Society has to recognize these mutts and keep them out of the police.

        1. Oh we’ve seen plenty and if it escalates expected a military and militia response. This rioting if you don’t get your way is going to stop.

        2. I recommend that Issacbasonkavich watch the leaked video of the cops actions with regards to St. George of Floyd (Peace be upon him!), but he won’t of course. He’ll just call me a racist.

          https://www.rt.com/usa/497006-george-floyd-leaked-bodycam-footage/

          https://youtu.be/YPSwqp5fdIw

          Wonder why the Minnesota AG did not release the video? Maybe because Keith Ellison is a supporter of antifa and BLM.

          Got some news for you Issacbasonkavich, being a “good white” will not help you when the Brave Masked Wonderful Warriors of Antifa ™, BLM or just some Dindu comes calling. My guess is based on your moniker, you probably appear white but don’t think of yourself as such.

          antonio

          1. Here the BLM looters attack on old man for trying to put out the fire they started in the Danish fraternal lodge in Kenosha

            https://twitter.com/after_theaction/status/1298210964018429952?s=20

            they smack him in the face, knock him down. maybe it was with his own fire extinguisher. his face is bloody around the right eye. they may have put his eye out. but if they did, he will be proud of the scars he got for his brotherhood, and marked like One Eyed Odin, the vik will come into him even more

            Alföðr – give os styrke til at slå vores fjender, solidaritet og mod i skjoldmuren og sejr i krig.

            1. Last night August 25 I offered this heathen prayer above, to the one eyed Allfather

              Today, 8/26, this prayer was answered.

              Last night, after my post, a man down in the street being hammered by rioters with skateboards, used his weapon to defend himself, successfully
              today there is a rioter minus a bicep and perhaps other casualties among the anarchists as well– proving that strong men in Kenosha stood their ground and fought chaos
              backbones stiffen, late perhaps, but they stiffen in the crucible of conflict

              https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298529196549869568?s=20

              your ancestors will send you the power from the great beyond when you need it- if you only show them you are fit to receive their blessings– have faith and be strong

        1. Antonio– Thanks for that document. It confirms what I argued was the most likely cause of death almost from the beginning. After that I suspected stroke or other complications arising from Covid, poor health and drugs. There was never a clear path to conviction by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Too many alternative paths to his death.

    2. “The four cops that were involved in the killing of George Floyd weren’t charged until the protests got violent. ”

      Yes, by all means, let’s promote the idea that charges should be influenced by mob rule. I mean, why on earth wait for an investigation?

      OR, is it possible that they were charged after the investigation???

      1. There is a very good chance that either the charges will be dropped against the officers in Minneapolis who tried to keep Floyd alive. Officer Lane’s attorney filed film that shows Floyd taking fentanyl as he is in the car. In the amount that he took, he is killed himself.

      2. Sorry, that was a little incoherent. The officers in Minneapolis has a good chance of either having the charges dropped or being found not guilty. Expanded video by Lane’s attorney shows Floyd with fentanyl on his tongue and then it disappears, while he is in the car. The dose is enough to kill him, which it certainly did.

    3. Issac– “Chauvin was called up on the rug 20 times before he killed Floyd”
      **

      The accumulating evidence indicates that none of the cops killed the thug.

      Acquittal of all of them would be nearly certain in a fair trial.

      The mob, and Holder and Obama wanted George Zimmerman too.

  13. A riot is a term used by law enforcement to shut down a peaceful protest

    Unfortunately the trend is there and it won’t be long until citizens start using more aggressive measures to combat law enforcement

    As much as law enforcement thinks they can control groups of individuals they would fall apart against an organized armed populace which will then require a military response

    That will forever change this country

    2. Golden Child:

      “A riot is a term used by law enforcement to shut down a peaceful protest

      Unfortunately the trend is there and it won’t be long until citizens start using more aggressive measures to combat law enforcement.”
      ***********************
      No a “riot” is a legal term bringing jail sentences. Colloquially, it means groups of young dunderheads who think their screaming and tantrums trumps our laws. They will end soon enough when the sentences for 10-20 years against their leaders start coming down and they realize that Uncle Sam’s “remarkably cool” basements don’t come with Game Boy. If that doesn’t educate our flaming fools, then the cops will deploy tear gas, water cannon and other legitimate weapons of the state against insurrectionists and we’ll all marvel at just how feckless low character people truly are as they run screaming home to mamma before arrival of their inevitable indictment. You make it sound like we haven’t dealt with street trash in our history before. See SDS, 60s.

      Oh and making empty threats against society usually gets you a trip to loony bin.

      1. Says Mespo who has regularly threatened and wished for a violent revolution so his fantasies can become real. Then riot will mean fat lawyers taking off their tassled loafers and putting on their Sunday best camo and boots and driving the Porsche SUV to pick up their buddies before heading to the ramparts.

        In his dreams.

        1. BTB:

          ” Then riot will mean fat lawyers taking off their tassled loafers and putting on their Sunday best camo and boots and driving the Porsche SUV to pick up their buddies before heading to the ramparts.

          In his dreams.”
          ****************************
          Ramparts? That’s a big word for a nincompoop. Sounds San Francisco. You can laugh all the way to the barricades. After that the crying begins. You seem to think people won’t aggressively defend their freedom, family and neighborhood. You’re dead wrong.

          1. Mespo, you let us know when your freedom, family, and neighborhood need defending. And I don’t mean by the Walmart greeter asking you to wear a mask, or a black family moving in just before the cul de sac. Until then, you’re a p.ssy screaming like a stuck pig for having to live in a democracy.

              1. I’m saying it to your face on the internet, internet tough guy. Adults with something to lose and egos advanced beyond middle school don’t get into fist fights, much as you pretend you do. On the internet we we back it up with smarts, and I get your feeling of inadequacy. But try. Tell us how your freedom, family, and neighborhood are under threat and how this is so extreme you favor violence against fellow Americans. Until then, it’s all just “eeek! A mouse!”.

                1. taunts, taunts. any man of modest backbone will protect his home and family. leave off with the taunts chaps, and let’s take a granular look at the BLM mischief in Kenosha Wisconsin, from a demographical local comparison.

                  Amidst, the 3 month insurrection, it has mostly been trouble in big cities., like Portand, NYC, Atlanta, or Chicago.

                  But Kenosha is not a big town. 100K ,… so if it’s now spreading to towns at the 100K level., we have to consider where it might nearby break out like a virus as well.

                  across the USA, in 2015, there were about 300 incorporated towns with 100K population or more. If the BLM insurrection spreads much farther, I predict there will be violent counter-protesting.

                  The local governments failure to quell the disturbances in cities like Portland is criminal negligence in itself. For obvious reasons, Trump should not be doing much more than protecting federal property. To do much more at this point., would stop BLM from making the point for all of us, that we need to see and hear clearly.

                  But at the 100K level of popuation, BLM will start to meet different kinds of Democrat mayors. The one in Kenosha may be a gelding, but there are some others not too far away that will quell riots with fierce and well organized riot squads.

                  Indeed, just in Kenosha, they are already close up against places nearby within a short car ride that would really give BLM a bad outcome for their trouble. Well, we may yet see it happen.

                  Let’s see. What about Rockford, IL pop 152 K? maybe an hour away. 20% black, it prolly has a BLM chapter
                  It also has a lot of CPD retirees. Hmmm, maybe a very bad choice for BLM to pick their next “direct action”
                  but we will keep an eye on it. the retirees, are ready, you can be sure of it.

                  how about Appleton Wisconsin? 100 miles north of Milwaukee. ha ha, only 1.7% black, 75K population. we konw it wont be a problem
                  it’s also the birthplace of the JBS. Yeah, BLM will not go far there

                  how about Lake Geneva Wis? Again not too far away. not even 10K population and about a half percent black. Oh, but a lot of very nice houses – vacation homes on the lake, that would be good for the plundering. Want to think about it BLM? Dare them to try. Some of these have security patrols to keep Pritzker style residences safe. They are paid muscle and won’t be as nice as cops. Hmm, it might go quite badly. That would be a hoot.

                  How about greyslake? very close to Kenosha. Only 20K, not even 1% black. Oh, how BLM would break all their teeth if they bit into the Greyslake apple. If they think there are white racists to worry about in Kenosha, they must not be thinking very hard about all the land and locations surrounding it.

                  PS here’s a little local color about kenosha. tons of mexicans. Tons. Notice there’s not a lot of Mexicans in the BLM riot squads? I do. Good for Mexican Americans. We welcome their orderly human culture. Oh and I notice, doesnt seem like BLM wants to try and invade a Mexican neighborhood. Why?

                  Dare we say the obvious? because they will shoot them very quickly, perhaps? I am just speculating here. What lessons can we learn, observing mischief such as this?

                  a) large proportion of black population is where BLM operates
                  b) urban enclaves that have weak police departments and weak mayors are where they target action
                  c) they stay out of residential areas where they are liable to meet stiff resistance– this usually means, mexicans, or cracker neighborhoods that are too rich to be looted, because armed security, or crackers too poor who will not hesitate to fire back.

                  In short, the BLM are a bunch of bullies, protection racketeers, and just one big criminal gang. they deserve to be treated that way. But that’s them. Let me turn to my people.

                  Any white person sucking up to BLM is a traitor to our people, to law and order and civilization itself. I can understand why black people want to push their own gangsters, but white people who lick their boots and the worst most immoral weaklings and pathetic worms imaginable. White folks who suck up to BLM will be hated by other whites and get no friendship from the rest of us, forever. We are watching our friends and weighing who is weak and who is strong…..

                  “Tekel, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting;” Daniel 5:27

                  1. Kurtz, your practiced racism is getting tiresome. If you haven’t noticed, Portland Oregon has a very small black population – 5.8% – and most of the BLM protesters there and at other locations are white college girls. Your appeal to a race war doesn’t fit and doesn’t work. It’s not 1968. South Central and Harlem aren’t in flames.

                    1. is getting tiresome.

                      Give the man a gold star for self-awareness.

                    2. @BTB

                      You’re right, Detroit, South Central and Harlem aren’t in flames. Steve Sailer had a good article as to why perhaps these areas are not rioting.

                      https://vdare.com/posts/a-tale-of-two-cities-detroit-and-portland

                      At the risk of oversimplifying things, The Antifa/SJW types aren’t about to go into areas with large black populations because if they do they will find out the Dindus aren’t going to exactly welcome them. Recommend you read the above but of course, you won’t, but maybe someone here will. Interesting read.

                      antonio

                    3. Book, as usual, I am ok with people calling me racist if they so please. You are not the first. I take it as a point of honor that I feel a natural affinity with my own kind. I welcome peace and justice with people of other races nonetheless.

                      Anyhow, I base my remarks about the black BLM hoodlums on hundreds of videos i have seen such as in Kenosha and Chicago–
                      where ALL THE LOOTERS WERE BLACK.

                      I admit that in Portland a lot of them are white. I realize there are a lot of freaky white heroin addicts types in Portland who maybe will get a few doses out of jumpin in on the mischief. ANTIFA and such, certainly most of them are white freaks, I do not have access to that information, but I think a lot for sure.

                      The other city riot profiles I have not studied in depth.

                      I stand by my observation that I see few if any mestizo looking looking people in these black BLM loot and riot mobs. Credit to our fellow Hispanic Americans and all of those law abiding illegal immigrants who are wisely standing back from this thing. Trust me, this is a fight between the anarchy and crime faction in America, and the forces of law and order. It will be settled by natives and among natives of whatever stripe, in the end. So, BLM can spew all their lies and try and enlist them, but they come from places where people are smarter than the average ANTIFA white freaks, apparently.

                    4. I might add, by my reckoning it is worse than 1968 by far already, if you take the national scope of wanton property destruction, looting, arson, and felonious assaults on police officers. If you think otherwise, I challenge you to verify the hypothesis. For now I will stand by my own perception.

                  2. This is why Detroit and South Central are not experiencing riots.

                    Assume for the sake of simplicity that there are two types of Not-So-Peaceful Protestors: BLM looters and Antifa rioters. The former are disproportionately black and the latter disproportionately white. The former break store windows to steal the merchandise inside, while the latter break store windows to break store windows.

                    My guess would be that there isn’t too much left to loot in Detroit after all these decades (2020 looting in places like Fifth Avenue and Melrose Boulevard has been unprecedentedly covetous and ambitious). And Detroit is too scary for Antifa, who, while they aren’t scared of the police, are scared of black criminals. Plus, Detroit serves as a sort of giant object lesson that the conventional wisdom of 2020 is stupid.

                    In contrast, Portland, because of its tiny number of blacks, is ideal for incubating the most extreme versions of Establishment thought among whites.

                    1. I am familiar with some Detroit streets and locales and not others. I am most familiar with Dearborn. Suffice to say, BLM will NOT be coming into the Arab neighbhorhoods which are adjacent to the main streets there. These are filled with people who came from countries where killing and civil war are not just threats but living history.

                      And black people do come to Dearborn, even though the resident population is small. 3.3% only, among 95K or so.. In particular I can think of one erotic dancing venue that attracts a lot of black men, which is oddly decorated on its outside with greek key, as if a Turkish seraglio were not a better motif. Anyhow, I suspect that Arabs own it and they are always “Strapped” and will not be toyed with by the BLM chumps. I have not been inside the dancing venue there, but I did get some fallafel etc. at the restaurant that shares the same location. The food was good, the parking lot was orderly, and one had the sense that mischief would be immediately punished by management.

                      The remaining non-Arab white residents are not going to be trifled with there either. The streets are named after famous union leaders and you know the type. They are not going to welcome BLM mischief. And Ford’s might as well own the police department. Do you think Ford’s is going to tolerate BLM looting Dearborn or rolling up to HQ easy like? I think not.

                      Now this talk of Detroit also reminds me of a big Chinese market I went into a little bit north of Detroit once. It was as big as a Meijers. That’s like Walmart for people who are not from Michigan. Must have had hundreds of Asian customers and lots of staff. A live fish market with aquariums chock full of turtles and different stuff. Quite a healthy business. Not more than 10% of the customers were round-eyes like me. They even had a small Hispanic foods section. But I saw exactly zero black people.

                      Do you think BLM is going to try their protection racket out on a neighborhood like that? I think not. They will not be met with guns but meat cleavers. Let BLM come taste diversity if they think they are the champions of it. Trust me, I am always welcome in such places, they know a law and order laowei when they see one, and we make good friends not bad ones.

                      BLM is the most obnoxious pro-black organization ever. Their tactics are so foul, they are making everybody dislike them. And that is not just the BLM organization but all the obnoxious black people and other losers who are boosting them– they make annoying fools of themselves as well. I am sure many communities of immigrants are not impressed with them at all. I have heard it with my own ears, hard as it may be for you to imagine that a proud native born American pro Trump white guy like me would be able to have the candid conversations that I have enjoyed.

    3. Your characterization of a riot is a failure.

      The rioters can only overwhelm the police b/c the police aren’t allowed to fight back in these urban utopias. The rest of the well armed population won’t play the same way. You’ll notice how protestors stopped swarming cars in Austin, TX.

  14. Classic case of not knowing where to draw the line. The guy participated in a riot and got caught. Riots are not a protected form of free speech. Ergo, they have the right and responsibility to fire him.

  15. Another indication, in case we needed one, that the word-merchant class is the most repulsive element in society apart from street criminals. We shouldn’t be providing them with agreeable and secure employment in public institutions.

    1. Another indication, in case we needed one, that TIA x 666 represents that repulsive element within society that all Americans can agree should be eliminated from our midst. The bitterness that comes from this sad sack is putrid to our society. That said…..

      TIA will shortly be announcing a press release of his opening a concentration camp to gas all those members of society he feels repulsive whilst charging a healthy chunk of change since he is a Republican capitalist….but of course

        1. H & J are Spes et Gaudium

          the irony is rich, Mespo. predictably you missed it because you saw Maaarrrxxxxiiissssmmm!!!

          WWG1WGA ….but will they be serving enough cases of Kripsy Kreme for all of the mespo727272 types?

          1. Krispy:

            “the irony is rich, Mespo. predictably you missed it because you saw Maaarrrxxxxiiissssmmm!!! H & J are Spes et Gaudium.”
            *******************************
            No the dumb is great with you. “Marxism” isn’t in that comment I was commenting on but I guess you mean gaudium et spes. In Catholic parlance, it’s actually “the joys and hopes.” I’ll see you at the catechism or Latin class. Maybe you’re Benson who can’t seem to figure out where to reply.LOL.

            https://www.cctwincities.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Gaudium-et-Spes-Pastoral-Constitution-on-the-Church-in-the-Modern-World.pdf

            1. this letter is a good read. I was lucky to be tutored in it as part of my fine Catholic education. As with every other part of the faith, it is a better read when taken as a whole, not piecemeal, and in the light of the long sweep of Catholic tradition. Some people err when they interpret it out of that context.

              however, I leave it to the clerics to share their own wise insights, as I do not call their shots. really, sometimes it seems one has to seek the truth of the Catholic faith WITHOUT help from the shepherds. that’s a sad state of affairs, and the responsibility for it is in their very own hands. meanwhile we have to keep moving whether they do their jobs or not. right now the clerics are barely up to serving the Eucharist regularly again, so afraid they are of the “pandemic” — one wonders, if they aren’t going to do that reliably, are they going to do any of the more complicated or difficult stuff, either? I wont hold my breath

  16. I’m also a strong supporter of free speech.

    This is a somewhat gray zone, as it is palpably different to say something offensive on campus and be fired versus be standing next to someone throwing a Molotov cocktail and not disperse when the police trying to get a handle on a riot ask you to. (Not to impute these were the precise circumstances here; just to sketch the more general problem before us of speech vs. violence.)

    IMHO Turley goes a bit too far out on a limb in favor of violent revolutionaries, as by Occam’s razor if a group one is surrounded by has a certain % of violent actors, and one continues to stand alongside them even after large-scale violence has been initiated, at some point there seems to be a greater reasonable culpability for being part of the general disorder than just plain speech.

    After all, one can be a human shield so that the police can’t get to the people who are throwing the Molotov cocktails, such that by sheer dint of the size of the crowd, the violent projectile throwers are protected from easily being taken into custody.

    This is all the more apparent if the same group meets night after night, with looting and destruction occurring each night, as the person “knows what they’re in for”.

    1. You seem to be reading an awful lot into a class C misdemeanor for trespassing.

      1. I made a point of saying this may not apply in this particular case, but I think the more generic scenario I raise is highly relevant to thinking about some of the prosecutions to come…

        We are constantly hearing of “mostly peaceful protesters” who are as often as not at nightly rallies flanking people who do throw Molotov cocktails, bring windows, or beat people up.

        My question is more of the moment, to the point, and of high relevance than whatever this bloke may or may not have done.

        1. I think I raised it in this context because Turley has a habit of walking out to the fringe of what free speech is and what it isn’t, and often appears to defend those who actually participate in riots as still exercising First Amendment rights…

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