Former FBI Director James Comey declared yesterday that he believes Joe Biden should consider granting clemency for President Donald Trump “as part of the healing of the country.” Just as I have long opposed self-pardons as an abuse of presidential power, I also have long opposed such pardons by their presidential successors. Comey is echoing the Ford rationale used in the Nixon pardon, which I continue to view as the wrong decision. Impeachments go to the status of presidents as the officeholders. Indictments go to their status as individuals. Indeed, I have long believed that presidents can be indicted while in office, including both President Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump.Comey stated “I obviously think he belongs in jail but I don’t think pursuing that is in the best interest of the entire nation.”
I fail to see the logic of the Ford position. To use Comey’s words, if “he belongs in jail,” he should go to jail. The notion that our country cannot handle the criminal prosecution of a former president borders on slander. If a president is a criminal, he belongs in jail. In Nixon’s case, he rejected the need for a pardon. Yet, Ford prevents a trial on Nixon’s culpability in the crimes of Watergate — crimes which sent various individuals to jail. That was not a victory for the rule of law or the country.
I do not believe that the President’s speech constituted criminal incitement unless there is more evidence of the President’s intent or knowledge. Many legal experts maintain that the speech, particularly in the context of his election challenge, is sufficient to convict. The D.C. Attorney General has said that he may charge Trump. So be it. I believe such a prosecution would collapse at trial or upon appeal. The legal system should be allowed to run its course.
The more threatening cases concern allegations of bank and tax fraud, including cases out of New York. There is also the election violation issue that was raised in the Michael Cohen plea bargain. In his plea, Cohen referenced election finance violations in connection to the Stormy Daniels payment. If Cohen was culpable of election violations in the Stormy Daniels matter, there is an obvious implication of that the President was also culpable.
I have never understood why it is so unnerving or destructive to try a former president. We are a country based on the rule of law. The prosecution of a former president shows that no one is above the law. That does not mean that Trump will be convicted or that these cases are valid. However, he must answer for such criminal allegations like any citizen.
I had always presumed Turley would keep defending Trump until the very end. I am surprised that he is open to the risk of criminal prosecution for Trump’s actions. Is this a late in the day attempt to restore his reputation. I don’t see it working but I have been surprised before.
The biggest gap in all of Turley’s partisan protestations protecting Trump was always that no matter what Trump had done, there was always some different and better way to respond–it was kind of a whack a mole approach. Yes, coordinating with foreign countries is an abstract wrong but OK when Trump did it. Asking a foreign country to invent a criminal investigation targeting a political rival is abstractly wrong but certainly not the type of wrong that should lead to impeachment. Inciting a mob, trying to overturn an election and failing to take steps to quash the Capitol invasion while trying to persuade Congressmen who were besieged by his loyalists while they were at risk to support his overturning the vote–all wrong, but once again not something that should lead to actual sanction. One was too early, one was too late, one was too abstract. And after 5 years of empowerment and protection, our Capitol has been disgraced, our international reputation is in shambles and our system of democracy barely avoided a coup from the top.
Turley’s argument in Trump’s first impeachment was that Trump was not dangerous and that his actions did not deserve punishment, The folly of that argument is shown by the deaths at the Capitol. But even now, Turley still thinks that Trump should be protected against direct consequences today and instead something else is always applicable in theory. I am quite sure that if Trump is indicted, Turley will argue that somehow its the wrong charge, or the wrong court or the wrong something and that Trump should avoid consequences, and the lesson that would be tyrants should always be above the law will be understood clearly at home and abroad.
I truly believe that no one is above the law..were I to incite a riot I would promptly be arrested & charged….the FBI or US Marshals should arrest him & incarcerate him. The 12 Senators & 140 representives should also be arrested and charged with aiding & abetting the riot. To date, all of the BS of it was rigged and large amount of fraudulent votes has not seen one shred of evidence.No body seems to note that 4 years have elapsed, more registrations have been made and many of the anti Trump voters have wearied of all the bad things that have happened on Trump’s watch-aided & abetted by McConnell and friends..Mining in National parks, giving giveaways to the richest, destroying workers rights, giving major polluters free reign and the list goes on…as I watched the debacle happening, I saw the true colors of many of the Trump supporters. I reminded me of Germany in 1933.The brown shirts were missing and to insult me further, using our flag as a weapon..Today I saw that unity is just another word for Trumpers.To ad further, police officer killed, others wounded and 1 protestor shot& killed, and 3 others died.We seem top be repeating Nazi Germany.As I watched teh debate on impeachment, I was struck by the many WHITE Republicans who voted aginst impeachment.
“I saw the true colors of many of the Trump supporters. I reminded me of Germany in 1933.The brown shirts were missing ”
You apparently know very little about Nazi Germany and the country you are residing in. The brown shirts were not missing this past year but were seen rioting and looting throughout the country under the banners of Antifa and BLM. It is not conservatives that want bigger government rather it is the left just like the socialists, Nazi’s and fascists. It’s not the conservatives who have taken control of the media and are trying to stop conservative media rather it is the left just like the socialists, Nazi’s and fascists. It is not the conservatives that are linking themselves with the largest corporations in the world rather it is the left just like the socialists, Nazi’s and fascists.
Professor Turley is an admitted Democrat left of center civil libertarian.
He has actual fixed standards, so can and does critique various parties per those fixed standards. This enrages Natacha and Gainesville.
The operative phrase is “actual fixed standards,” and principles something those two never had but neither do most of those frequent posters from the left. Those that have principles and fixed standards can say what they are.
I notice that when you provide your excellent ideas for reform none of the left comment about them or provide alternatives that make sense.
Pardoning Trump for what?
Pardoning someone for something they didn’t do intentionally leaves a scarlet letter on their reputation and public persona.
It wouldn’t be a gift, it would be declaration of guilt without trial.
On what basis does Comey think Trump should go to jail? Did he submit or sign off on fraudulent FISA warrants violating constitutional freedoms of Americans?
He had the audacity to fire James Comey.
Certainly it borders on blasphemy that Obama, for no reason except to be a deep state tool, announced he (not the DOJ) summarily dismissed the many felony charges against true scum of the earth CIA members, DOD members, all the way up to Dick Cheney and others, for murdering and torturing terror suspects (plus the rendition program), etc. These were and still are international war crimes. They had all the evidence needed for swift convictions.
One of Trump’s biggest failures was not hanging this around Obama’s neck after Trump took office. Trump still could have charged the felons, and I’m sure once charged facing life or the death penalty every single god forsaken one of those scum bags would have turned on Dick Cheney. Whether they had evidence of Cheney’s crimes is another matter, but at the very least his name would be down in the history books as the author of that felony enterprise.
Anyone that thinks Trump gives a damn about the swamp is criminally stupid.
“Trump.Comey stated “I obviously think he belongs in jail.
Perhaps Comey is looking to share a cell.
If “payback” becomes the follow up to a presidential term, it’ll destroy this country. Either by its use by both parties as they come in to office, or as a threat to the current party in power, never to allow the other party back into the office; regardless of the means.
You’re assuming the Democratic Party’s sachems are capable of thinking even two steps ahead.
You have the Speaker of the House, two floor leaders, and two whips in each chamber, and an additional whip for the Senate Democratic caucus Have a gander at what they’ve done with their adult lives. Of the 10 of them, six are pure career politicians, having done flat nothing else with their adult lives but sit in elective office, work as aides to elected officials, hold patronage jobs, or sit on the staff of political NGOs. The rest are people who each spent a half-dozen years or so (pro-rating periods of part time and seasonal work) in non-commercial employment; two practiced law, one taught school, and one ran a daycare center.
One of the things we suffer from is that our politicians are bubble-dwelling mediocrities. Now look who is due to be sworn in as president.
Self-punking alert: The above poster supported Trump, the Gone to Seed Richy Rich, TV Reality Show “Businessman”, bogus University founder, and in-debt up to his a.s branding speculator.
“one ran a daycare center.”
Whomever that one Democrat is he should be the head of the party.
A progressive activist has been arrested and charged with participating in last week’s U.S. Capitol riot …
FBI agent Matthew Foulger alleged in an affidavit on Wednesday that, rather than merely act as a journalist during the riots, Sullivan “knowingly and willfully joined a crowd of individuals who forcibly entered the U.S. Capitol and impeded, disrupted, and disturbed the orderly conduct of business by the United States House of Representatives and the United States Senate.”
Foulger in the affidavit said that footage taken by Sullivan at the riot shows the activist accompanying and cheering on the rioting crowd by saying things such as “Let’s go. This shit is ours!” and “Let’s burn this shit down.”
cont: https://justthenews.com/nation/crime/fbi-agent-says-progressive-activist-was-participating-capitol-riot?utm_source=breaking-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
Video as well. Other non Trump people and presently looking at 3-5 others.
There would be a place for considering a pardon for the sake of healing our country since we are getting a fresh start and a new Administration and Congress on January 20th, IF but only IF Trump admits that he lied about the election being stolen and if he apologizes and asks Americans to forgive him. He hasn’t done that, and won’t do that because his mental illness, narcissism and arrogance won’t allow for the possibility of failure or rejection. In the absence of admitting the truth about the election, an apology and expression of remorse, Trump needs to be prosecuted, impeached, drawn, quartered, and/or suffer whatever other remedies there are allowable by law to punish, censure, and most of all, keep him out of ever serving in elected office again. It would be like someone murdering another person and the family of the victim just letting it go–without the perpetrator being prosecuted, showing any remorse, no apology, no admission of wrongdoing, no asking forgiveness. A grievous wrong was done to our country, 5 people are dead, and the main perpetrator cannot simply be allowed to walk away in disgrace to rail against the “injustice” of his rejection, but continuing to stir the pot. Trump is the cause, and the stage was set for the insurrection even before the Election, by Trump saying his presidency would be stolen. When it became clear that he had lost, and despite dozens of court dismissals, he kept up the lying, stirring up his disciples, encouraging them to fight for “their country”, telling them they wouldn’t have a country if they didn’t fight. His media enablers did the same, as did an unthinkable number of Republicans, who should also be removed from office.
Twitter, Facebook and the other social media platforms were wise to block Trump, because there are reports that he is raging, blaming everyone else for his failures, lashing out and he even went after Rudy Giuliani, telling his campaign not to pay his legal fees. If he still had these platforms, he would still be spreading the lie about the election being rigged, and would continue fanning the flames of dissention. No, Biden shouldn’t pardon Trump. He might consider it if Trump admitted he lied, told his disciples that he was wrong, and asked for forgiveness. That’s not going to happen, so letting the insurrection go unpunished would only add to the wrongfulness of Trump’s crimes.
Just curious if you were helping with the COVID counting too. You should serve in government. We don’t have enough people in government who can incorporate irrelevant things and overstate the numbers. You have an exceptional talent that could be used in the next scam of the people.
+10
ANTIFA PROVOCATEUR ARRESTED IN CONJUNCTION WITH CAPITOL RIOT
https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1299533616070815745
John Sullivan aka JaydenX the guy who encouraged Ashli Babbit to jump up and get shot then filmed her dying
He’s a left-leaning provocateur but not a member of Antifa.
He’s been previously rejected by a number of people on the left – https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1331902008765206528.html
Take note how sure of himself Anonymous the Stupid is. He leaves no room for error because tomorrow he can say he never said it it and blame it on another Anonymous the Stupid. But there is only one Anonymous the Stupid and what he says changes based on the day and time. He lies and his search habits are lazy and stupid.
I heard that they had written evidence that Sullivan claimed to be Antifa and BLM. I understand Andy Ngo outed Sullivan as Antifa and I believe Andy Ngo was a member of Antifa before he realized how awful they were. According to some Sullivan was arrested for rioting in the past. However, today Anonymous the Stupid will definitively say Sullivan is not a member of Antifa based on a questionable site whose article was written a long time ago, Nov26. Anonymous the Stupid is truly stupid.
You continue to project your own weaknesses, Allan.
You are dreaming. The election was stolen. Biden is illegitimate. Sorry if the truth hurts
You are dreaming. The election wasn’t stolen. Biden won. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Pine, again Anonymous the Stupid is certain that you are wrong despite the fact that he is stupid. In case you don’t know :-), that is how anonymous got his name Anonymous the Stupid. There were all sorts of illegalities and actions that occurred that were inappropriate. John Say brought up a number of those things which Anonymous the Stupid dissed without thought or intellect.
I believe the election was stolen and that if the election had been secure without harvesting and inadequate procedure Trump would have won by a landslide.
I didn’t write this but I remember it all and it’s hard to argue with the facts.
Remember in 2011 when tens of thousands of Democrats surged on the Wisconsin Capitol building in Madison and physically occupied it for more than two weeks? We were told, “This is what democracy looks like.”
Remember in 2016 when Obama was President and hundreds of BLM blocked interstate highways and violently accosted police (even killing several)? We were told, “To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible.”
Remember in 2018 during the Kavanaugh hearings when a mob of Democrats stormed the U.S. Supreme Court building in Washington, DC, and pounded their fists in rage on the door. We were told, “It’s understandable.”
Remember this summer’s riots in major cities across the country when groups of Democrats marched in the streets, set buildings on fire, looted businesses, assaulted and even killed bystanders and police? We were told, “These are mostly peaceful protests.”
Remember when Democrats seized several blocks of the Capitol Hill neighborhood in downtown Seattle, declaring it an autonomous zone? Remember the guns and deaths and utter destruction? We were told, “It’s a block party atmosphere.”
Remember when a crazed mob gathered after the Republican National Convention and attacked Rand Paul, a sitting U.S. Senator? We were told, “No justice, no peace.”
Remember how police were told to stand down, governors refused to call in the national guard, and Democrats paid bail for violent protesters who were arrested? We were told, “This is the only way oppressed people can be heard.”
I have condemned violent protests and lawlessness every single time they’ve been reported. I condemn the actions of those who stormed the Capitol last week. But I refuse to condemn hundreds of thousands of peaceful protestors because a handful (52 arrested) chose to be lawless and to defy everything the vast majority of the crowd stood for. Conservatives are defenders of the Constitution, the police, and the rule of law. Because a relative few people decided to do something stupid doesn’t nullify the concerns of the many.
The real culprit here? The mainstream media has been telling us for years that violence is the only way people who feel oppressed can be heard, it’s the only way to get justice, and this is what democracy looks like. Apparently, a few who were in the crowd on Wednesday listened to them.
The inflammatory rhetoric of the Left helped cause this, and it’s about time Democrats and the mainstream media took responsibility for dividing Americans and attempting to humiliate those who support the President or any conservative ideals. They have pushed people to the brink, even while claiming, “It’s time for unity.” It’s time for careful reflection and change on all sides. God help us!
I didn’t write this but I agree with what it says.
“Conservatives are defenders of the Constitution, the police, and the rule of law. ”
These are obviously past talking points of the party, last Wednesday however, a mob of “conservatives” attacked the Capitol, killed a cop, crapped on the floor, and actively looked to hang the vice president, massacre congress members and overthrow the government.
Elvis Bug
To quote another, look, “dirty old man” the mob was very few in number that likely consisted of Trump supporters, Antifa, anarchists etc. Antifa was smart trying to create the appearance of a conservative mob. But that is the left not the right. It is the left that is tearing up this country.
Those in the mob that were conservatives acted stupidly and most conservatives including Trump are upset over the violence.
You forget all the violence from the left. You forget all the rallies on the right where no violence occurred. You believe in lying, cheating and stealing. It sounds like you are both a dirty old man and Joe Friday.
Meyer, you are right on the money. Democrat Party is hopelessly corrupt right down to the county committee level and even lower in their organization. The MSM is also hopelessly corrupt. They are supposed to be the fourth estate bringing news to the people and exposing crimes and scandals. The present crop of “journalists” are merely shills for the DNC. The only fix is to find someone in a position of power to indict and prosecute the criminals. Does such a person exist? I doubt it.
Philly, thank you for the comment, but I didn’t write the piece. I agreed with what the comment said. It came in my email without attribution and I thought it could be enjoyed by people like you. I enjoyed it.
Anonymous the Stupid has pointed out something where parts of this seem to come from, but wants to insinuate that I was plagiarizing.
There are many differences especially in the first sentence where it said I didn’t write it.but you know Anonymous the Stupid is stupid. He’s a disrupter who takes a good blog like this and tries to disrupt it. That is what stupid people do to spend their time.
Philly, I should have added that Anonymous the Stupid likes to insult. He insulted you for no real reason other than you voiced an opinion that he was too stupid to understand. Stupidity and insults are a major part of Anonymous the Stupid.
To separate Anonymous the Stupid from the other anonymous posters I use the label Anonymous the Stupid which can be used by anyone. It might help people differentiate one anonymous from the other.
He doesn’t need Biden he has Pence unless something happened in the last two days to change things and I would dearly love to see it shoved up the asno of that group. Until then color me expat. As a 23 year veteran of combat arms I don’t need any of the bologna party and have the Purple among other things to prove it. Most of them never qualifed to be a citizen.
I have never understood why it is so unnerving or destructive to try a former president.
You might consult with Gen. Flynn on how our system of justice actually works. Then there is the issue of finding an impartial jury and/or a judge. Change of venue? Where? If you want destructive, go ahead and prosecute Donald Trump for anything imaginable. But If the individuals that the facts and evidence prove conspired to take down a duly elected president, aren’t prosecuted as well, then you will only succeed in making 75+ million Americans finally convinced the security of their rights is not in the interest of government. If you take away hope they can peacefully change the direction of government through voting and you show them only political enemies get prosecuted, then you leave them with only two alternatives; 1. Submission. 2. Rebellion.
And conservatives, by nature, will not willfully submit or be alienated from their rights.
Well said, Olly!
Flynn seems to have committed the crime he pleaded guilty to. The average defendant doesn’t get a presidential pardon. He’s an example of how our system of justice works for the well-connected.
Olly, I see below that Anonymous the Stupid disagrees with you, but take note that while you provided food for discussion he can provide only empty rhetoric.
“Flynn seems to have committed …” followed by no fact proving what he says. This is chronic. He is unable to understand the danger to our nation, its people or himself. He cannot relate things to past events in history such as the French Revolution. That is why one can aptly refer to him as Anonymous the Stupid. It is that stupidity that subjects all of us to danger.
He’s too myopic to understand that the word system is the whole thing, not a nit of one case. Did Flynn plead guilty? I believe he did. But when you zoom out and look at the system of justice that led to that guilty plea, then you understand that this was not a prosecution, but a persecution. Millions of people throughout history have been executed on a system like that. Witches were burned at a stake for that. To find a population of 21st century citizens that support this, is an indictment of their qualifications to be part of our franchise. Hell, I would guess the 18th century slave population would have been more reliable a vote to secure our lives, liberty and property than many of these folks today.
Professor – with respect, there is the view on this from legal theory and view on this in terms of practical national security.
Those using the Richard Nixon example clearly did not live in the 1970s. The extreme persecution that Donald Trump had by the U.S. intelligence community, media, etc., is nothing like the Vietnam era and Watergate protests for Richard Nixon. Secondly, Richard Nixon had a concrete criminal offense tied to his impeachment involving obstruction of justice. Trump’s impeachment is about the “impact” of language. Totally different. I understand there are also other potential “criminal” charges in the future. But after the past 4 years and the degradation on law enforcement credibility, they are going to appear to be “political persecution” charges. If it were CCP or another country, and we were observing from a distance, we might also consider them to be “political charges” as well.
The context of the times are also completely different. If law enforcement authority (with clearly corrupt and illegal intelligence operations) had not been corruptly abused for FOUR YEARS against an elected president (Trump), the legal theory argument of prosecuting Trump would have reasonable consideration.
But the fact is law enforcement authority WAS abused for many years against this elected president. The credibility and respect for such authorities are on very thin ice with many millions of the American public, and the abuse issues have barely begun to be addressed. So the legal theory argument of prosecuting a president (while correct), cannot ignore the practical problems of our current times.
The democracy of the U.S. has suffered blast after blast. Another blast in theory seems reasonable. But in practical life, the dam of public outrage that will be burst will be the most dangerous division the U.S. has seen in over a century. Extremists who seek to push what is left of the U.S. democracy over the edge, are gleefully hoping that such an overreach (ignoring context) occurs. Those are the anarchists of every political spectrum who for their own reason want to “burn it all down,” believing the U.S. institutions are irredeemable. They are further fueled by this terrible pandemic and resultant poverty which has affected so much of the U.S. So yes,those people will certainly not want a pardon. But do we really want the dam to break, to prove that we are “right”? Will that really help the American people and its institutions? I think not, and I strongly urge intelligent people to use restraint in calling for such “arrests.” We don’t need more gasoline on the fire today.
What we REALLY want are pardons for Trump and his administration BEFORE January 20. We need to defuse the extremist calls for violence, before things get further out of hand. It may not be the legal theory that some like to hear, but come back in 10-20 years after you have resolved the legal problems at FBI and other institutions, and then let’s talk about how we need to be “consistent.” We are not even in the universe of beginning to solve those problems yet, and we need to buy time to actually resolve national issues, to ensure law enforcement and institutional credibility, not apply anarchist solutions to these serious crises.
We are a country based on the rule of law.
Blind? deaf? dumb? Or just willful ignorance?
Get down from your ivory tower.
Portland DA dismissed 90% of riot-related charges it received in September, 70% of charges since start of civil unrest
https://antifawatch.news/2020-10-16-portland-da-threw-out-90-percent-of-rioting-charges.html
I read the entire transcript. Trump said absolutely nothing that would be considered inciting a riot. As a matter of fact he urged peaceful and patriotic protest. The attack on the Capitol was instigated by anarchists who hijacked a peaceful protest. This whole farce has been orchestrated to humiliate Trump and get him out of the political arena. Biden supporters rioted, vandalized, looted, and burned down cities. There was no outcry and even fewer arrests. If improving an economy, making the lives of minorities and the middle class better, making peace in the Middle East, protecting our borders, improving our military, and developing a vaccine against the Chinese virus are prosecutable crimes, then heaven help our legal system! Enough already. Go spend your time prosecuting Hunter, culpable democrats and members of the deep state. They are the ones who truly committed crimes!
Jonathan: Well, we finally agree on something. Biden should not pardon Trump and he should be prosecuted after he leaves office. But we part on the issue on whether Trump had the requisite “intent” when he called on his supporters at the rally last Wednesday to overturn the Electoral College votes. In the context of Trump’s incendiary rhetoric and actions after the election Trump made plain what he wanted. He wanted state officials in states, like Georgia, to commit voter fraud to change the votes from Biden to him. At the rally Trump summoned his well armed supporters to overturn the election–to stage a coup and keep him in power. Generalissimo Trump knew what he was doing and what he expected from his merry band of rioters.
No one can predict whether the Republican controlled Senate will actually convict Trump. But whatever happens Trump faces enormous legal jeopardy after he leaves office. In addition ,his business house of cards is crumbling. His golf resorts and hotels are losing money in buckets. The PGA says it will not hold future tournaments at Trump resorts. Deutsche Bank is calling in the $340 million in loans to Trump and refuses to deal with Trump in the future. Trump will probably sue the bank but is unlikely he will be allowed to re-negotiate his loans as he has done in the past. But it’s not just the banks that consider Trump toxic. Foreign leaders don’t want any part of Trump. The Scottish prime minister won’t let Trump into the country to visit his golf resort. Trump will be persona non grata everywhere he tries to go after leaving office. Even the city of Palm Beach doesn’t want him as a resident.
In typical narcissistic fashion Trump has turned his vengeance against all his former loyal allies like VP Pence and Mitch McConnell. Trump is so isolated and angry he is now refusing to pay the legal bill of Rudy Giuliani who, until the end, supported Trump’s unfounded claims of massive election fraud and stood up last Wednesday and demanded the armed mob engage in “trial by combat”. In the end Trump’s loyalty is only to himself. The emperor has no clothes but he refuses to look in the mirror!
Scotland hasn’t got a Prime Minister.
Scotland has a First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.
Dennis – what do you think will happen during and after a prosecution of Donald Trump?
Do you really think it is worth it?
talk about the impeachment for a second. it’s premised one what?
there was not solicitation of a crime of violence, nor insurrection 18-2393 nor sedition 18 usc 115 nor seditious conspiracy 18- 2384,if i have them right, go read those statutes and understand what kind of proof a prosecutor would want to bring such charges and it’s obvious, its lacking
also take a look at history. in far more stark circumstances with unpopular defendants and some evidence, the government has failed massively
there is no legit crime or misdemeanor at the foot of the impeachment articles, just an indictment which is based on political outrage, not a cognizable crime
but the congress wants a parliamentary style no-confidence vote, and now, they have it. what a lot of good it does anyone. Pyrrhic victory
Sal Sar
Did you even listen to his speech? I did. I was there. There was no incitement to anything except despair. The President called on his supporters to come to DC implying that he had a plan. We got there and stood in the freezing cold and the mud for hours only to learn that his only plan was punting to Pence who very reasonably didn’t feel like carrying the whole weight of rectifying the stolen election on his shoulders. At no point did Trump incite anybody to any kind of violence. If a lack of leadership were a criminal offense then yes go ahead and indict him. When I realized that the only plan was there was no plan, I went back to my hotel and actually felt guilty about not going on to the Capitol. Now I thank my lucky stars that I did, although I still expect the FBI to come knocking. I can’t speak for anybody else but I have been told by psychologists that I’m an emotional lightning rod. The prevailing emotions at the White House were a sense of letdown, disappointment, and betrayal. The whole event was a grotesque undead MAGA rally. It felt like a wake. For the first time since he took office, I saw what the President’s critics see. I still think he did a great job for the country, I do not believe in the strongest terms he did anything criminal or impeachable, but he did reveal himself to be past his expiration date as a leader. In my opinion it was that lack of leadership that led some Trump supporters to take matters into their own hands and foolishly follow the Antifa plants into the Capitol. Of course they believed there would be no consequences just as there have been no consequences for the past 6 months as the left burned the country down. Trump supporters and the GOP in general have revealed themselves to be criminally naive and fell with a loud kerplunk into the trap. The result will be a loss of liberty for everyone.
thank you deboluccia for your comments. a lot to ponder
Sal Sar
You mean like all the demonkkkrats who committed proven crimes, or just the people the DOJ decide to prosecute or the FBI decide to frame. I just hope I live to see the day when leftist reap what they have sewn. Venezuela 2.0
I wonder if insurrection at the Capitol has changed JT’s ideas about free speech protections and how far they can reasonable reach before the 1st Amendment becomes the weapon with which a militant faction pumps itself up to take down the US Constitution and US government?
As I have argued many times in regards to free speech, misinformation campaigns and corrective-truth campaigns do not compete on a level playing field. Consider how difficult it would be right now to get detailed information in digested form to rebut the fantasy story Trump put out there of having “won the election, and by a landslide”. That takes time, connections, and the smarts to process gobs of separate information sources. Trump’s fake-narrative took almost no cognitive effort, and no time to sythesize.
Look at the results. Polls indicate that somewhere north of 30% of Republicans believe that Trump is right and the election was stolen. They cite his 74M votes as fact, but conveniently ignore numbers coming from the same source saying Biden got 81M. When you raise this point, they will immediately claim that the difference, 7M votes, were somehow manufactured, yet have no credible mechanism by which that could have occurred.
A clever infowarrior like Pres Trump has given free-speech advocates like JT a dramatic demonstration of how easy it is for deceptive infowarfare to commandeer the minds of people — a blitzkrieg assault which prempts their ability to process counter-narrative information. The misinformation campaign’s success in shaping opinion into militant conviction in favor of seditious rebellion against the Republic — I’d like to know if JT still thinks the antidote to lies is truth? Or, is the medicine ineffective arriving too late after the onset of the infection?
JT’s arguments rest on the Counterspeech Doctrine cited by Justice Louis Brandeis, summarized in the First Amendment Encyclopedia:
“The counterspeech doctrine posits that the proper response to negative speech is to counter it with positive expression. It derives from the theory that audiences, or recipients of the expression, can weigh for themselves the values of competing ideas and, hopefully, follow the better approach.”
This doctrine appear to be naive about innate group psychology, in which group loyalty often overpowers pursuit of truth.
Therefore the question remains: Can we allow misinformation campaigns go forward to foment insurrection? How can such a permissive view of speech be compatible with a Constitutional Republic’s paramount imperative of stability and longevity?
Note: This analysis is not to be interpreted as endorsing government censorship. There are many other avenues and actors who can moderate the public discussion toward peaceful conflict. This is what we are seeing since 01/06.
Thanks for the concern trolling. Always an education.
you mean he must answer like all the dozens of proven crimes against demonkkkrats? Depending on who the justice dept decides to prosecute or the FBI decides to frame
To use Comey’s words, if “he belongs in jail,” he should go to jail.
But we already know he doesn’t belong in jail. Prosecution can only be an effort to convict Trump of a crime he didn’t commit (obstruction) or that (in the case of tax fraud) there was no probable cause for the DA to investigate..
The Trump family’s biggest legal dangers have always been insurance and bank fraud. Jail? We’ll see.