Below is the long version of my column that ran in the Washington Times on the unusual offer made by the head of the Oath Keepers organization to testify despite his pending criminal trial for seditious conspiracy.
Here is the column:
With only one scheduled hearing remaining, the House’s Jan. 6 committee this week held a long-awaited hearing on the critical linkage between former President Trump and his aides to extremist groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers.
At the start of these hearings, committee members said there was evidence of a criminal conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election through an insurrection on Capitol Hill. To establish a criminal conspiracy, the committee maintained that Trump and others in the White House colluded with these groups, who were to be the insurrection’s foot soldiers.
Committee member Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) has insisted there is “ample evidence” to support criminal charges. His colleague, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), said the committee would show that Trump organized a “coup” on Jan. 6, 2021.
The hearings have succeeded in bringing to light much of what occurred in those critical days. The testimony has detailed extremely disturbing conduct and chilling proposals, but it has not established a clear criminal conspiracy. Indeed, much of the evidence has amplified what we already knew, rather than add significant new information on criminal conduct. If the committee is serious about such a referral to the Justice Department, it will have to make a quantum leap in evidence. Even former prosecutor and Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp said that the seventh hearing showed her “as a former prosecutor myself, everything that I’ve heard, I think it would be a very tough indictment to get.”
If the Committee seriously wants to convince Attorney General Merrick Garland to charge a former president, it must produce direct, unassailable evidence, not circumstantial evidence based on “will be wild” tweets or an anonymous former Twitter employee’s testimony that “It felt as if a mob was being organized.”
The seventh hearing spent a considerable amount of time on actions not taken by Trump — a curious way to build a criminal case. There was the draft tweet that was not sent and the executive order that was never signed.
Even more curious was the selection of the long-awaited witnesses from right-wing groups involved in the attack on the Capitol. One was Jason Van Tatenhove, a former Oath Keepers spokesman who quit the group years before the riot and had no involvement in any planning or protest on that day. Tatenhove called the head of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, as a dangerous militia leader. The other was Stephen Ayres, who illegally entered the Capitol on Jan. 6 and later pleaded guilty to a federal charge of disorderly conduct. Both offered insights into the extremism of these groups but not clear criminal linkages to Trump.
The Committee is now faced with a rather bizarre offer from Rhodes. Indeed, I cannot recall any situation quite like this one.
Despite being indicted for seditious conspiracy and facing up to 20 years in prison, he said he is willing to testify on his actions related to Jan. 6 on the condition that he does so in public, to avoid having his words edited or distorted.
The risks for Rhodes are enormous, and few defense attorneys would support such an offer. A Yale Law graduate, Rhodes knows he could not only incriminate himself on pending charges but could trigger additional charges for perjury or other crimes. It would effectively negate his right to remain silent at trial, since any committee testimony could be used at trial. It would give prosecutors not only an extensive examination of Rhodes free of limiting rules of evidence but it would expose Rhodes for any contradictions if he decides (as seems more likely given this offer) to testify at his trial.
For the committee, the potential risk of Rhodes testifying would be the loss of control and the possibility that he could hijack a hearing with extraneous, sensational or hateful statements. I can understand the reluctance to hold an open hearing. However, if Rhodes went rogue, the committee could always end the hearing.
The question now is whether the committee is willing to take the risk of an unscripted hearing to establish a criminal case against Trump. It has a witness who could confirm or refute such allegations — but that will require an unscripted, unpredictable public hearing. It would not be a controlled production by a former network executive — but the public would see an actual examination of a key player, and be able judge his credibility and culpability for themselves.
The committee has already laid the foundation for such an examination and has a long list of subjects. It could ask Rhodes about photographs with Trump associates like Roger Stone, or the storage of a weapons cache; it could secure sworn testimony on any coordination with the Proud Boys and other extreme groups.
Rhodes has maintained he believed that Trump would activate the Insurrection Act, and came prepared to be made part of a lawful militia. Witnesses have said Rhodes wanted Trump to deputize citizens under the Act but lacked contacts or “access points” in the White House. The committee would be able to ask him if anyone in the Trump campaign (or Trump himself) offered assurances or encouragement in that bizarre belief.
The committee has built a criminal conspiracy theory around these groups and Rhodes in particular. This is an opportunity to examine an alleged core conspirator in a no-holds-barred format. There are risks all around, of course, but the greatest risks would fall on Rhodes. The committee should take him up on his offer.
Thank you again Anonymous the Stupid, for the opportunity to place #19. Someone should place a candle to honor you.
—-
#19/21. More illegal harvesting. In Arizona, a half dozen people have already been indicted on charges of illegal harvesting in a probe by Attorney General Mark Brnovich that shows signs of expanding. It comes after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected Democrats’ arguments and concluded Arizona’s ban on harvesting was constitutional.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/bombshells-belie-big-lie-21-confirmed-illegalities-irregularities-2020
===========
“S. Meyer is very rude.”
He’s a troll.
And he’s also delusional and stupid.
While hiding himself ATS wants to know: “S. Meyer is very rude. What made him that way?”
As usual, you are living up to your name, Anonymous the Stupid. I have posted a lot today. Did you notice where the insults were directed? To you, and to the one with many names who is Stupid and insulting. CK07 was not insulted until the end when his insults were separated from the discussion. That deserves a suitable reply.
You on the other hand insult the blog continuously with your anonymous name and pretend friends that use insults, lies, and trickery to get your ideology across. You also feign being canceled to garner sympathy and attack people that think correctly.
You don’t belong on an intellectual blog, but most tolerate you. I choose to throw back your insults. That should answer your question.
“Mr. Miller and GEN Milley met with the President at the White House at 5:30 p.m.
“The primary topic they discussed was unrelated to the scheduled rally. GEN Milley told us that at the end of the meeting, the President told Mr. Miller that there would be a large number of protestors on January 6, 2021, and Mr. Miller should ensure sufficient National Guard or Soldiers would be there to make sure it was a safe event. Gen Milley told us that Mr. Miller responded, ‘We’ve got a plan and we’ve got it covered.’”
“It’s the first time this has happened in my lifetime since McCarthyism, and it’s despicable,” “The idea that they would interview this witness and allow her to testify to hearsay about the president jumping toward the wheel, without first asking the eye- and ear- witnesses. I’ve never heard of a lawyer doing that in my 16 years of practicing law. … It’s not only unethical, it’s not only unfair, it’s bad lawyering.” _ Alan Dershowitz,
Was Anonymous the Stupid in NY?
Armed assailant attacks Lee Zeldin with a knife at campaign event
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/armed-assailant-attacks-lee-zeldin-knife-campaign-event?utm_source=breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
So we’re going with John Solomon- most famous for pushing Russian misinformation about Ukraine to the point that even Fox News distanced themselves from him-‘s site for fact checks now?
If you don’t want to believe legitimate news sources or even politifact, you can check Wikipedia to see the right lost 54/55 post election files cases, and been rejected or dismissed in several pre election files cases as well. There are 2 post election pending concerning trump being sued for voter disenfranchisement and maybe 3 ongoing concerning absentee ballot procedures/timeline in Pennsylvania/Minnesota and the one I mentioned before but nothing that would come close to overturning any election.
Not sure what information destroying arguments you’re celebrating. It’s all more bs going nowhere to muddy the waters.
“So we’re going with John Solomon- most famous for pushing Russian misinformation about Ukraine”
CK07: I see you lost the argument before you even began. I guess this has to do with the 21 lies that were all documented.
You complain about what Solomon said about Ukraine. The problem is he was right and all your pundits wrong. He provided transcripts and other evidence to prove his case. What did your pundits provide? Nothing like you are doing here.
From one false assumption, you move directly onto another, Wikipedia, known to be terribly inaccurate whenever politics is involved.
I don’t have to say very much because you are unable to bring facts to the table. I will end by providing some of John Solomon’s evidence.
Supreme Court of Wisconsin
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2022-07/WISupremeCourtDecisionBallotDropBoxes.pdf
Office of Special Counsel
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2022-03/GablemanReport.pdf
He has many more, but I am limited to only two citations. You can see the rest of them on his site.
Take note that the article proves that Trump’s complaints were valid. No one said they would affect the overall results.
However, 2000 Mules provides good reason to believe that the election is in question and that if 2000 Mules is correct and illegal were not counted, it is more likely that Biden lost.
Long story short your links are the equivalent of a case challenging a heavily gerrymandered district that decided the fate of a past election, such that it cannot be gerrymandered in the future.
Since we’re on the subject of Wisconsin here is one such case ruling redistributing illegally benefited Republican candidates:
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/Whitford-Opinion112116.pdf
None of this would have an impact on a past election and unlike with gerrymandering where if the law were adhered to in advance you’d have a different outcome with all the same voters, here even if it did you can’t disenfranchise everyone who used a drop box during the pandemic when at the time they were advised by the state they were legal.
If dropboxes were illegal in 2020 and the public was correctly informed, do you have evidence those same voters wouldn’t have otherwise voted by another means even if it put their health at risk?
“However, 2000 Mules provides good reason to believe that the election is in question and that if 2000 Mules is correct and illegal were not counted, it is more likely that Biden lost”
Not sure how you come to that conclusion. As usual Dinesh’s allegations hardly seem credible. As noted by Reuters most of the footage was obtained in Georgia where dropping ballots already completed by 3rd parties is legal, such as if a bedridden mother filled out her ballot and asked her daughter to deliver it, the footage makes the latest Bigfoot video seem like it was directed by Spielberg, and there’s more direct evidence of people being paid to attend trump rallies.
Ahh forgot the Reuters link
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
CK07, a while back I responded to a fact checker from mercury news that responds similarly to others, so I will reproduce that here.
You provided an entire argument by another. Here are some answers proving you and your article wrong.
Now you can dig through anything in this article I left out and defend that.
As I said before, you lost the argument before you started. You can only parrot what another says. You are devoid of facts and knowledge.
—
• “Ballot harvesting” is a pejorative term for dropping off completed ballots for people besides yourself. The practice is legal in several states but largely illegal in the states”
FALSE
The mules engaged in ballot trafficking, which is illegal in all states. Ballot harvesting, legal in some states, has to do with taking a limited number of ballots from family members or dependent people directly to the dropbox.
That was not done! The ballots were picked up from a central source (ILLEGAL) and then transported to drop boxes in ILLEGAL numbers. There was no relationship between the mule and the one voting, which was also illegal.
This was BALLOT TRAFFICKING which is ILLEGAL in all fifty states.
========
“The film contains no evidence of such payments in other states in 2020.”
The evidence is overwhelming, including videos, whistleblowers, and people interviewed who didn’t know what was happening but filled in the empty pieces about what was happening with the ballots.
It was BALLOT TRAFFICKING WHICH IS ILLEGAL IN ALL 50 STATES.
====
“Plus, experts say cellphone location data, even at its most advanced, can only reliably track a smartphone within a few meters — not close enough to know whether someone actually dropped off a ballot or just walked or drove nearby.”
One doesn’t repeatedly go by drop boxes in the middle of the night 10 times, suddenly wearing gloves to prevent fingerprint detection.
Cellphone location data was good enough that their data located a criminal who performed a criminal act where they were checking pings. They gave the police the information, and the criminal was arrested. So much for this type of garbage from the left.
“There’s always a pretty healthy amount of uncertainty that comes with this.”
But the uncertainty disappears as the number of times at the dropbox and the center increases. That is why they didn’t use only three events. They used ten times which would be a far outlier. Videos and other information fill in more of the details.
The quote is uneducated. The commenter should see the film and stop parroting what the left wants to hear. He needs to state the truth.
“What’s more, ballot drop boxes are often intentionally placed in busy areas, such as college campuses, libraries, government buildings and apartment complexes — increasing the likelihood that innocent citizens got caught in the group’s dragnet, Striegel said.”
3 AM in the morning would be unusual.
“Similarly, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why someone might be visiting both a nonprofit’s office and one of those busy areas. ”
Would they end up at a ballot box ten times? Of course not. One needs to see the film because the data debunk these bogus statements.
=====
“A video of a voter dropping off a stack of ballots at a drop box is not itself proof of any wrongdoing, since most states have legal exceptions that let people drop off ballots on behalf of family members and household members.”
But that means they take the ballot directly from the person to the ballot box, or the ballot becomes illegal. They were taking ballots from an illegal center. That is known as BALLOT TRAFFICKING.
They were BALLOT TRAFFICKING which is illegal in all 50 states.
“And True the Vote did not get surveillance footage of drop boxes in Philadelphia, so the group based this claim solely on cellphone ”
So, according to the article, Philadelphia was the exception, and the other places proved the film’s argument. There was further evidence in Philadelphia. Cameras at ballot boxes are not the only cameras available. But that provides the question, where were the cameras and what happened to the film? It sounds like there was even more unlawful activity going on in Philadelphia.
I don’t think I need to debunk more of this article. Everyone needs to see the film for themselves. ATS will continue to deceive and lie, but he can’t do that to people armed with the truth.
“the equivalent of a case challenging a heavily gerrymandered district ”
CK07: You lost the argument before you even began. You changed the subject and sound rather incompetent on the subject and in debate.
2000 Mules was not Dinesh D’Souza. The data was collected by a well-respected group having no former connection with D’Soouza. The data collection method is used by the FBI and CIA.
Finally, the data came from more than one state.
Admit it. You have no rational argument and rely solely on ideology.
“Admit it. You have no rational argument and rely solely on ideology”
I admit that if I were trying to prove “BALLOT TRAFFICKING” as fact in light of vague and unreliable circumstantial evidence (as identified by the Georgia bureau of investigation and a Fulton circuit court judge- I too would want to distance the presentation from the director who has been convicted of felony “Campaign Fraud”, including but not limited to making contributions in the names of others.
I’m not sure how it’s solely ideology when I’m not buying hook, line and sinker the poorly vetted allegations from a director with a horrible track record, who himself admits he has no evidence of any “mule” going to more than one “drop box”.
To test this hypothesis, did true the vote check the geolocation of the individuals in question again in the months after the election to be certain they weren’t getting similar data of visiting their old haunts, the areas around the “identified locations” to make sure their allegations weren’t wholly erroneous? Seems like a logical thing to do, right?
As someone who has a friend and small business owner falsely accused based on erroneous information from the far right crazies behind pizzagate, to the point he and his family receive death threats from the Qanon crowd to this day , and who watched the J6 hearings show how followers of fringe conspiracies like 2000 mules hounded and harassed Lady Ruby and her daughter, I don’t buy the pisswater you’re selling. You’re not going to sell me on clap that was ridiculed even by intelligent politicians on the right, no matter how much you, John B or Giuliani keep yapping about how this documentary or a guy who moved too far right for Fox News are supposedly credible.
“CK07: You lost the argument before you even began. You changed the subject and sound rather incompetent on the subject and in debate.”
You sound like you have a poor ability to grasp basic logic. One case that isn’t going to overturn a prior election and is meant to change the rules for future elections is similar to another case that wasn’t going to overturn a prior election and is meant to change the rules for future elections. That’s not changing the subject, it’s merely pointing out your implication that there are additional cases that trump is somehow winning now is a misleading claim at best. That’s not changing the subject, that was the original subject. Now you’ve steered the subject knee deep into 2000 miles, which was originally mentioned as an aside. You can feel free to continue to relitigate the topic with the ghosts of your past. We’re done here.
CK07: You admit to something, but that ‘something’ is unclear in your word salad.
Did you bother to carefully read my explanations? It doesn’t sound that way.
They were near the drop boxes at 2 AM and a minimum of 10 drops in one night. They have videos as well.
I love these stories about a person who has a friend. The truth about most of those stories, unless one is integrally involved, is the person knows little of what they are talking about whether the friend is right or wrong.
I am not talking about overturning an election. I am talking about correcting the problems we face and making it near impossible to cheat.
It seems you have a lot of words but no counterargument. First, you changed the subject, added a new one, and then complained. As I said, you lost the argument before you began.
Ballot Trafficing has been proved. Game over. Done.
There are many follow on questions:
Were the ballots that were traffic legitimate or forgeries. ?
What was the involvement of the 501C3’s ?
What EXACTLY was the scale of Ballot Trafficking – it could be anywhere from a low of about 200K ballots in 6 states to a high of several million.
Who benefited ?
Did this ballot harvesting tip the election ?
How significant was the coordination of that ballot trafficking.
But if you are still questioning whether Ballot Trafficking occurred – you are completely blind.
I would note nearly all the above questions have already have answers that we KNOW with pretty good probability.
The 501C3’s are up to their ears in this.
The scale is more likely a million or more rather than a few hundred thousand.
Democrats benefited,
The effort was well coordinated,
and it probably tipped 5 of 6 swing states.
each of those has been proven to a “more likely than not” standard.
All are far above the standard necescary to start a criminal investigation.
There is more evidence of each and every one of the not yet proven points than there EVER was regarding the Collusion Delusion HOAX.
John, CK07 might not realize it but Ballot Trafficking is illegal in all 50 states.
The evidence is neither vague nor unreliable, and only some of it is circumstantial.
ALL forensic evidence used in crimes is “circumstantial” – fingerprints are circumstantial. DNA is circumstantial.
Quite often circumstantial evidence is all we have and people are convicted by it all the time.
Further circumstantial evidence is often significantly better than eyewitness testimony.
A DNA match is better than an identification in a lineup. as an example.
The video evidence is NOT circumstantial.
You attacked that claiming that it is only from GA – that is not correct. But it is true that there is only 1M minutes of ballot box surveialance video.
When the LAW required keeping hundreds of times that for atleast 2 years. The missing video is itself EVIDENCE that demonstrates election officials were involved in the Fraud.
If an armed robber hits 20 gas stations, all of which have security cameras recorded by the same security company, and when the police ask for the video it is all gone – the reasonable conclusion is someone in the security company is involved in the robbery.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of evidence and the standards of evidence.
If the police arrive at a minimart and find the cash register open the money all gone, and the clerk shot in the head on the floor – it is near certain that a crime – an armed robbery took place.
There is far more than enough evidence to investigate.
But the evidence above is alone insufficient to arrest anyone, much less onvict them.
That does not mean a crime did not occur.
The ballot trafficking claim has been proven.
Criminal Election Fraud took place – End of Story.
There is no vague, or circumstantial that is relevant.
What we do not have is the identity of the perpetrators, nor absolute certainty of the scale, or some details – such as whether the ballots filled out by the actual voters or are they forgeries. Were the they coerced or induced.
I would further note that an actual investigation will to a high probability expose this as worse than what we know not better.
It is highly unlikely that TTV caught all or even most of the ballot harvesting.
It is far more likely that the evidence they presented will turn out to be the tip of the iceberg, than that investigation will diminish its strength.
We already have evidence this trafficking was paid for – a Separate additional crime.
The scale of the operation makes it likely that the ballots deposited were primarily forgeries.
‘
This is not the only evidence of election fraud in 2020.
It is possible that each of the many instances of fraud or possible fraud are unrelated. But it is more likely that many of them are related.
In AZ they found that about 17,000 people voted just under 50,000 times. that could be a bunch of confused people voting several times.
It also could be the tip of multiple ballot forging operation that was manufacturing ballots for unlikely voters. Or it could be a combination.
If it is a forging operation – it is likely that the 2000 Mules video is identifying the Delivery mechanism for these forged ballots.
This also Further demonstrates why election laws are necescary and must be enforced – and that means tossing ballots.
The system is supposed to prevent multiple votes from the same person – whether that person deliberately or accidentally voted more than one time, or someone else forged a ballot in their name.
Where multiple ballots from the same person happen – they are NOT supposed to be counted – and yet they were.
It also points out why Mailin voting is impossible to secure. There is no reliable means to determine which of duplicate ballots purportedly from the same person is the legitimate one. While hat is trivial in in-person and absentee voting.
And the potential for Fraud becomes worse when laws such as voter ID laws and signature matching laws are not followed.
The purpose of those laws is not just to prevent small scale fraud – but to prevent far more dangerous large scale fraud.
If you do not want vote dilution of voter disenfranchisement – you must prevent election fraud – especially large scale fraud like this.
You seem to be unfamiliar with the actual results from the GBI and Courts so far.
What we know:
In the Cobb Country Random Signature audit – still the only GBI ballot audit that was done,
Of 5000 ballots selected at random in the most afluent democratic county in GA – the least likely place for Election fraud.
6% failed to meet GA’s LOW signature match requirements – and should have been rejected, but were not.
0.6% were found to be fraudulent. Biden one the election by 0.2% of the vote.
This was a single small random audit, it is not absolute proof of large scale problems, but it is more than enough to require a much larger audit – that never happened.
It could be that the random choice of 5000 ballots by chance picked a high proportion of bad ballots.
It is more likely given that this was Cobb County not fulton county that the percentage was LOW not high.
But this can not be known without a real investigation.
It is also well known already – from court and other sources that there are a large number of duplicate ballot scans from Fulton county – that the same set of ballots was scanned over and over by election officials.
There is video evidence of this that the left has mocked. But the FACT is that even though the private GA audit was stopped after only about 10% of Fulton county ballots scans were provided – there still were hundreds of duplicate ballot scans found.
It is also known that over 300,000 GA ballots do not have chain of custody information.
Put simply we do not know where those ballots came from – but they were counted.
They could just be record keeping errors. They could be forged ballots delivered by trucks or pulled out from under counters in suitcases by election officials.
What we do know is that in a state where 300,000 ballots would have flipped EVERY statewide election, There is no record of the democrat, and republican observers and the election official that transported those ballots from wherever they came from to be counted.
Every single time a ballot is moved from one fascility to another – a republican and democrat observer and an election official must travel with that ballot(s) and sign off when it arrives documents for where it came from how it got there and that they observed the entire process.
Again this is a critical antifraud measure.
Without it – we can nto ever tell if there is massive fraud. Without it those ballots are not supposed to be counted.
“I too would want to distance the presentation from the director who has been convicted of felony “Campaign Fraud”, including but not limited to making contributions in the names of others.”
Can you please post facts, not indecipherable nonsense and less spin.
It is impossible to tell what you are refering to.
You complain about 2000 mules – where FACTS have been provided, and you will not accept that.
And then you spray us with vague allegations that are indecipherable ?
And you wonder why your abiltiy to think critically is in doubt
“John B Say (@johnbsay) says:
“I too would want to distance the presentation from the director who has been convicted of felony “Campaign Fraud”, including but not limited to making contributions in the names of others.”
Can you please post facts, not indecipherable nonsense and less spin.
It is impossible to tell what you are refering to.
You complain about 2000 mules – where FACTS have been provided, and you will not accept that.”
Let me make it painfully clear for you.
2000 mules is a conspiracy driven documentary by dinesh dsouza, who was convicted of, you guessed it, campaign fraud. That’s not spin, that’s basic facts you would be aware of if you did a modicum of research on your sources.
“The ballot trafficking claim has been proven. Criminal Election Fraud took place – End of Story.”
Oh it’s been proven you say? There it is ladies and gentlemen, widespread voter fraud sure to exonerate Trump in every court in America!
Now where? Who was behind it? What facts do you have?
“It is also well known already – from court and other sources that there are a large number of duplicate ballot scans from Fulton county – that the same set of ballots was scanned over and over by election officials.
There is video evidence of this that the left has mocked.”
Fulton county you say? Isn’t that where the cooks you follow railroaded lady Ruby and her daughter based off of footage that was spun by other conmen?
What you all have done to Shay Moss and her mother is despicable. It deserves worse than mocking. I hope they sue the pants off those slandering them.
“We already have evidence this trafficking was paid for – a Separate additional crime.”
“In AZ they found that about 17,000 people voted just under 50,000 times. that could be a bunch of confused people voting several times.”
Ok, proof? Where? What cases? Who had attested to this under oath?
Also where are the cases your side had won alleging such “proven” facts of criminal election fraud? And I don’t mean the ones where your sources were found guilty of it.
Ah! So you are attacking D’Souza.
Someone convicted by Obama of something no one is ever convicted of – Because he made a movie that Obama did not like.
Regardless, that does not matter. Or maybe it does. D’Souza was essentially convicted for a small scale version of what 2000 mules shows large scale. He knows what Voter Fraud looks like.
Further – as is typical of leftists – you defame the messenger rather than looking at the message.
D’Souza made the movie. He did not do the investigation. TTV did that.
The FACTS are what they are. Defaming the person providing them does not change anything – except your character.
And what is this “conspiracy driven” nonsense ?
Do you really think that 2000-8000 people suddenly just before the election decided to visit 10 ballot boxes and 5 501C3’s mostly late at night on several occasions – for kicks ?
Absolutely there is a conspiracy here – that is a crime with many people working together.
When thousands of people do the same thing at the same time – that is not a coincidence, it is a conspiracy.
Given that I had no idea who Shay Moss was until YOU provided here name – Neither I nor some great right wing cabal have done anything to her.
Regardless, The GA Fulton county vote scans have hundreds of duplicate ballots an that is only in the first 10% of ballots that got examined.
There is video that sure looks like scanning the same ballots. And there is lots of scans of the same batch of ballots.
Her, someone else. Does not matter.
Regardless, I have no special sympathy for election workers at Fulton County.
They sat idly by while the law was violated and observers were chased away.
They actively participated in processing the ballots with no observers present – that is illegal.
There are no hero’s there.
BTW I lived in Fulton county many years ago. Elections were not trustworthy then, I would be surprised if they are now.
Proof ? Read the AZ audit, it is there.
I can not help it that you are holding your hands over your eyes and chanting “I can’t see any fraud”
You have been provided with lots of evidence.
Most of it is actually under oath.
The AZ audit was filed with the AZ senate and its authores testified about it under Oath – much the same way that Horowitz and Mueller testified under oath about their reports.
Your rebutal is to defame people – not even the people who produced the evidence and then to toss accusations other accusations arround.
Again Google is your friend.
This is a start.
Just a start.
https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-crime-arizona-presidential-election-2020-d465a854ddec56ea48f9a5a291c5adc3
“As someone who has a friend and small business owner falsely accused based on erroneous information from the far right crazies behind pizzagate, to the point he and his family receive death threats from the Qanon crowd to this day , and who watched the J6 hearings show how followers of fringe conspiracies like 2000 mules hounded and harassed Lady Ruby and her daughter, I don’t buy the pisswater you’re selling. You’re not going to sell me on clap that was ridiculed even by intelligent politicians on the right, no matter how much you, John B or Giuliani keep yapping about how this documentary or a guy who moved too far right for Fox News are supposedly credible.”
Again there are not enough facts in your diatribe to know what you are talking about.
Recently a person attacked Rep. Zeldin with a knife at a campaign event.
That is a n actual death threat.
It would be nice if people posting on line were more civil. But I have little interest in the hurt feelings of public figures over unkind words in emails.
Fox BTW is not “far right”. They are slightly right of center. They are close to the center than any of the rest of the MSM.
That is born out in myriads of polls. it is why they dominate.
Alex Jones and Infowars is “far right” – and even he has a better track record for accuracy than much of the MSM.
The vast majority of purported main stream media is clueless shills for the left.
We littlerally have a Pulitzer awarded for Journalists who bought and reported a HOAX.
“Recently a person attacked Rep. Zeldin with a knife at a campaign event.
That is a n actual death threat.”
Zeldin is a Republican, and Democrats don’t care about the rule of law. They will let Supreme Court Justices be threatened and killed. They will kill those that cannot protect themselves. They will kill normal citizens permitting violent riots. They will protect thieves and robbers. They will even kill from afar as they do in Ukraine.
—
Zeldin Was Right About What Would Happen to Man Who Attacked Him During Campaign Event
The man who allegedly tried to stab gubernatorial candidate Rep. Lee Zeldin (R-NY) was released from custody hours after the incident, just as the lawmaker predicted.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2022/07/22/zeldins-attacker-released-n2610656?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&bcid=cd063631366c0cf42cdc6ed2c495d69caf8c2d2e5883b760874359dd180572d8&recip=29303354
“You sound like you have a poor ability to grasp basic logic. One case that isn’t going to overturn a prior election and is meant to change the rules for future elections is similar to another case that wasn’t going to overturn a prior election and is meant to change the rules for future elections. That’s not changing the subject, it’s merely pointing out your implication that there are additional cases that trump is somehow winning now is a misleading claim at best. That’s not changing the subject, that was the original subject. Now you’ve steered the subject knee deep into 2000 miles, which was originally mentioned as an aside. You can feel free to continue to relitigate the topic with the ghosts of your past. We’re done here.”
Again a complete absence of facts or anything that allows confirming anythin you write.
You complain about the logic skills of others – and post meaningless and indecipherable nonsense.
And you are arguing that 2000 mules is some Hoax like the Steel Dossier.
It is a documentary based on a massive amount of collected evidence.
Regardless, the actual evidence is there for you to evaluate if you wish.
As is typical of those on the left – you are more interested in what some talking head says than actual facts.
The 2000 mules evidence PROVES ballot trafficking – beyond any doubt.
For most of us it is more than sufficient to conclude that the election was more than sufficiently fraudulent to alter the outcome.
You are free to “feel” differently.
But pretending that it does not PROVE large scale election fraud just makes you look stupid.
We can debate how large the sale was.
We can debate who benefited,
We can debate who ran the operation.
We can debate whether the ballots were forgeries, or coerced or induced or even possibly legitimate.
But there is no debate that large scale ballot trafficking occurred.
“Long story short your links are the equivalent of a case challenging a heavily gerrymandered district that decided the fate of a past election, such that it cannot be gerrymandered in the future.”
Are you capable of writing with sufficient detail and clarity that your arguments make sense ?
Whitford v Gill went to the Supreme court and was remanded because the plantiff did not have standing because they could not demonstrate actual harm.
Why are we supposed to waste time reading a case that has been overturned ?
I have addressed Gerrymandering before.
There are several types.
It is as old as congressional districts.
There is no objective correct way to create congressional districts.
Any party that succeeds in gaining partisan advantage through gerrmandering – risks getting wiped out in a swing election year.
Essentially gerry mandering is a “self punishing act”.
The wisest thing courts can do is stay as far from it as possible.
If you do not like how your state creates its congressional districts – Vote your state legislature out.
“None of this would have an impact on a past election and unlike with gerrymandering where if the law were adhered to in advance you’d have a different outcome with all the same voters, here even if it did you can’t disenfranchise everyone who used a drop box during the pandemic when at the time they were advised by the state they were legal.”
You do not disenfranchise people who used an illegal and unconstitutional drop box.
You do not put out illegal and unconstitutional drop boxes. You do not violate the states constitution using the pandemic as an excuse.
In Wisconsin as everywhere else – most Older people voted in person. Mailin voting was used disproportionately by young couch potatoes with no consequential risk.
I am was 62, I voted in person. Mailin voting is unconstitutional in my state and I expected that the Supreme court would order my state to follow its own constitution, and I was not going to risk losing my vote because I did something stupid like voting by mail.
Separately – even if mailin voting were legal in these states – there is nothing in the law – not wisconsin’s not my state about unattended dropboxes.
In fact there is nothing about Dropboxes at all.
John, before Solomon was publishing Just the News, I sent in a check because he is gold, and I was only paying with devalued currency. His columns are always excellent. Julie Kelly has been doing wonderful work on Jan 6, showing that in many aspects it is an insider job. Devine from the Post did a wonderful job on Hunter. These three along with many more, have been accurate and ahead of the curve, yet people like CK07 and the rest of the leftists rely on the Washington Post, which uses anonymous people only to lie time after time.
Why these leftists don’t realize their sources don’t tell the truth after virtually all of their important stories about Trump and related issues have been debunked proves more than stupidity.
Solomon is excellent. Importantly he is also an old school journalist with integrity who dots his eyes, crosses his t’s and gets everything right.
I read some of the others you cite – and they are excellent. But they are not in solomon’s league.
Few are today.
Glenn Greenwald is in that league though he has a different beat and is a little more of an oppinion journalist – but he gets his facts right.
There is a growing body of red pilled left wing journalists. who are not as conservative – but increasingly are at war with the left.
Teixiera – the political analyst who predicted minorities would give democrats a permanent majority – is now working for AEI – and says Democrats are in trouble because they are hemoraging hispanics.
And the Intercept – The company greenwald founded but was kicked out of recently published and expose of how the left are destroying themselves in their own organizations that is an excellent peice.
John, I agree. Solomon is the draw, but the site provides a quick well rounded tour of what happened in the world. They provide a quick list of articles with a short explanation so one is aware of most of the things I am interested in. A quick click can get one immediately to the article, but the only person I consistently read is John Solomon. I use the NYTimes headlines for the same purpose to see what is happening on the other side of the truth. From that site I can link to the article as well.
Those are the convenient quick lists. For in depth I read an assortment of people. Greenwald is one even though he is on the left. ForJan6 Julie Kelly is top notch.
If your governor says that shooting people at random is legal – would you do that ?
When people vote using an unlawful method – they dilute the votes of those who bothered to follow the law and constitution and vote legally.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I have ZERO problems rejecting the ballots of voters who disenfranchised themselves by voting unlawfully.
If their state executive gave them bad advice – they should sue those people personally.
Unless you lived under a rock you were well aware that mailin voting was unlawful.
Nothing has changed and democrats are Still trying to keep it up for 2022.
This is an incredibly stupid argument. You are essentially sayijng he party conjtrollingthe executive branch of government can make up whatever law it pleases, and that law, rather than the state or federal constitution or duly enacted law – is magically thelaw by fiat.
Why would we bother to have legislatures ? or constitutions ?
It is illegal in Georgia – and was in 2020 for a third party to pick up and drop off ballots.
The ONLY state where pretty much anyone can pick up and drop off a ballot for another person is California.
It is illegal to do so for money EVERYWHERE.
Raffensberger and others have claimed that even if you picked up and dropped of the ballot of another person – while YOU would have committed a crime, the ballot would still be legal.
That is doubly False.
There is actual evidence that atleast 242 Mules in GA dropped of tens of thousands of ballots.
There is no evidence at all those ballots came from real voters.
More of TTV’s video comes from GA – because there was a Senate Runnoff election there.
And because some states like PA destroyed Drop Box video after the election.
But there is video from many states.
I would further note that the video corroborates the GeoTracking data.
The Video exactly corresponds to the Geotracking data. This significantly increases the probability that the Geotracking data with no video – regardless of the state is fraud.
I would further note that the NORM – and possibly the law in all states is that when harvested ballots are identified – they are REJECTED.
The GOP candidate in a NC election in 2018 had his victory voided by the courts after credible allegations of ballot harvesting.
The courts did not bother to determine if the harvested ballots were from legitimate voters.
They were not delivered legitimately therefore they did not count.
In the NJ democratic primary in Newark over 200K mailin votes were rejected by the courts changing the outcome of the election because those ballots had dubious provenance.
The NORM is not to accept harvested ballots. It is the opposite. What is True frequently as in Wisconsin, is that when a fraudulent ballot is separated from its envelope and mixed with legal ballots, then Fraud charges can proceed against perpitrators, but challenges to the election are dismissed – because the fraudulent ballot can not be separated out anymore.
AZ found more than enough votes that should have been rejected to easily tip the election. It was possible to KNOW with certainty that the AZ election had more than 50,000 fraudulent ballots counted. But it was not possible after they were mixed with the rest of ballots to isolate the fraudulent ones from the legitimate ones
If you wish to concede that the election was full of fraud – more than enough to tip the balance – but the problem can not be fixed – then you would be correct.
I would note that your ranting over J6 is extremely disingenuous – as one of the purposes of challenges to the election in congress is to fix EXACTLY this problem – as they did in 1876.
You do not seem to get it.
Once you accept that the ballot drop boxes were unlawful.
or that the mules putting ballots in dropboxes were fraudulent – YOUR DONE.
YOU are the one presuming they reflect legitimate votes – real people.
No one knows that.
One of the things that the AZ audit indicates (as well as the CA runnoff) is that groups were culling voter registration lists for voters that were unlikely to vote, and then filling out fraudulent ballots for them.
There are many reasons ballot harvesting is illegal. One of those is that ballot harvesting is the easiest means of injecting forged ballots into the election.
In a 100% in-person election, the only means to get forged ballots counted is to have an election official add them to the scanning stream.
This is why other election laws require a chain of custody for ballots. And why we are supposed to reconcile the number of voters with the number of ballots. Because without those dumping forged ballots into the election wouldf be easy.
How many daughters have 5 or more bed ridden mothers ? Times 20 ?
Most of these so called fact checks are completely stupid.
TTV did not count as Mules people who deposited 4 or less ballots at one time.
They did not count people who did not make drops at atleast 10 drop boxes at one night.
In numeorus instances they caught the same person on video at 2 or more drop boxes in one night.
Or on multiple days.
We are not talking about people deivering one or two ballots for relatives.
From GA voters guide for absentee ballots.
“Can I return someone else’s ballot to a drop box, or can they return mine for me?
Yes, but… under Georgia law, only people with the following specific relationships can return an absentee ballot on behalf of another voter:
Mother, father, grandparent, aunt, uncle, brother, sister, spouse, son, daughter, niece, nephew, grandchild, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law. (No, this person is NOT REQUIRED to live in the same household with the voter).
Another individual residing in the same household as the voter. (Yes, this person IS REQUIRED to live in the same household as the voter).
The caretaker of a voter with disabilities (No, the caretaker is NOT REQUIRED to live in the same household with the voter).
If you want to assist someone with returning their absentee ballot that doesn’t meet one of these criteria, offer to give them a ride so they can return their ballot themselves.
Returning another voter’s absentee ballot if you don’t have one of these relationships to them is illegal.”
What is “as usual” is those concocting the so called fact checks are morons.
There are not 284 People dropping off ballots at GA dropboxes in 2020 with 100+ immediate family members.
Attacking Solomon is just stupid.
He has a very very long reputation as a real journalist who does not make mistakes.
He has many big stories that he got right over decades.
But more recently he was FIRST with the collusion delusion story. He was debunking various aspects of it long before anyone else.
As to attacking his coverage of Biden/Urkaine ? Really ?
Before there was a Hunter Biden Laptop – Solomon had hundreds of pages of primary source documents exposing that there was NEVER a basis for Firing Shokin, and that Shokin was Meticulously investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden, and that Shokin was inarguably NOT corrupt.
Much of Solomon primary source documents came from court records and FOIA requests to the US state department.
Often these were letters, emails and other Document provided by Rosemon-Seneca – Hunter Biden’s company, to the State Department trying to get the State Department to stop the Shokin Burisma investigation.
VP Biden stepped in and Blackmailed Ukraine, When Hunter was unable to get the State Department to do his bidding.
There is lots of communications between various people in the state department, and the Office of the VP and even the Whitehouse, saying “What the h311 is going on here – Hunter is making the Whitehouse look Corrupt and interfering with US policy and needs to but the F out. ”
Hunter’s machinations were NOT Welcome by the state department, NOT Welcome by the Whitehouse. But for VP Joe Biden, Shokin would have remained Prosecutor and Burisma would have gone done, and there would have been lots of Russian Thugs angry because Hunter was not able to deliver.
All of this was exposed by Solomon LONG before the Laptop surfaced.
If Solomon reports something – it is Gold. If you do not trust it, you are an idiot.
One of the most disturbing things of nearly everything the left rants about – including 2000 mules, is that:
Anyone attacking the left or democrats must PROVE far beyond the standards necescary to convince a jury – just to get an investigation started.
But lies and Hoaxes are good enough to convict Republicans.
2000 Mules makes a compelling argument. If we are using the “beyond reasonable doubt standard” – it meets or exceeds that in proving organized large scale election fraud that PROBABLY is sufficient to tip the election.
But even if you have your head so in the sand you can not accept that – it still is 1000 timnes more than needed for the reasonable suspicion standard required to start an investigation.
While Horiwitz aparently MISSED the fact that the Steele Dossier and Alpha Bank nonsense were both HOAXES – probably because his powers of inquiry were limited to current federal employees and records – he is an IG, not an USADA. He can not subpeona ordinary people or even former government employees.
Still in Both the Clinton Report and the Collusion Delusion report – he laid out quite well the standard that had to be met to open an investigation.
Given that Steele and Alpha were known Hoaxes – the standard was not met for Crossfire Huricane or the SC investigation – not even close.
BUT When Trump asked Zelensky to look into the Biden’s – not only was the standard already met – but the DOJ was already unknown to Trump investigating.
This is one of the problematic aspects of Faux Impeachment I.
The entire impeachment would have DIED immediately had Barr revealed that there was an ongoing investigation of the Biden dealings in Ukraine that Trump had no knowledge of and nothing to do with.
So Does the AG have a duty to protect the secrecy of a criminal investigation that is greater than his duty to expose that a House impeachment proceding rested on a FALSE premise – that there was no basis to investigate the Biden’s ?
I think Barr was obligated to at the very least tell the “gang of 8” that there was an ongoing FBI investigation of the Biden’s conduct in Ukraine that Trump knew nothing about.
I was also very disappointed in Barr as we now have DOJ memo’s confirming that Barr required US ADA’s to turn over any election related claims to State AG’s – where they died.
In SOME instances there MIGHT be some merit to that – some appearance of impropriety issues were a claim was WHOLELY specific to a state.
But as an example there was a claim – with affadavits that a Truck full of Ballots was driven from New York to Philadelphia prior to the Election.
This was being investigated by a US ADA who was forced to turn it over to PA’s Democrat AG.
An election fraud claim that crosses state lines is ABSOLUTELY a DOJ issue – not a PA or NY AG issue.
There are a few other claims that are clearly interstate or even international. These REQUIRED Federal investigation.
While local election fraud claims in a federal election has dual jurisdiction and MAYBE given Trump was president, there is a Weak conflict of interest claim.
Anyway Back to 2000 mules., There is clearly an interstate claim – and plenty of evidence and given that it is federal election related it requires a Special counsel.
You do not have to beleive the allegation is true all you have to do is reach the “reasonable suspicion” standard – and that is easily met.
Every single left wing nut fact check about 2000 mules does NOT change the fact that there is reasonable suspicion requiring an investigation.
We do not have to know that it altered the outcome, We do not have to know who the mules were. We do not have to know with certainty that all 2000)or 8000) were dropping ballots. In fact we do not need the Geotracking data to start a Special Counsel investigation.
All we need is video of SOME people depositing multiple ballots into drop boxes in similar ways in several states.
The Geotracking is damning – it establishes a large scope, It establishes an interstate conspiracy. It establishes a high probability of alterin the outcome of the election.
But the video alone is PROOF of Ballot harvesting – and that is a crime, and that is all that is needed.
Yet there is little in the waay of investigation.
The Rule of Law doesn’t exist under today’s Democrat regimes. That shows the Democrat Party has become fascist.
“Barr revealed that there was an ongoing investigation of the Biden dealings in Ukraine that Trump had no knowledge of and nothing to do with.”
John, I believe that small part of history has to be intensely investigated, with all the entanglements exposed. That is one of Barr’s greatest failures, and it has no answer. His response at the hearings where he intentionally misspoke the data to make 2000 Mules seem weak in some way, connects to that earlier decision. That question compounds with so many legal hands tied through fear. Almost the entire legal community has cowardly stepped away from searching for the truth.
I linked in another post an excellent article by the Intercept on the self destruction that has been going on inside progressive organizations – at least since Trump was elected. i would suggest reading it. Given the strongly progressive tilt of the intercept I am surprised the published it.
John, I don’t remember such a link. Can you do so again? Thanks.
I beleive this is it.
https://theintercept.com/2022/06/13/progressive-organizing-infighting-callout-culture/
John Solomon who was FAMOUSLY RIGHT.
I would note that this story originated with Hillary and was published by the NYT in 2015.
Long before the Hunter Biden laptop, and now Cell Phone surfaced, Solomon reported based on hundreds of documents, many from the state department through FOIA requests.
Now we have memo’s from the Obama whitehouse stating that Joe Biden’s interactions with his Son were undermining Obama’s foreign policy.
You are the one up to your ears in misinformation.
And you think Wikipedia is a reliable source ?
Politifact ?
Many of the sources you claim are legitimate- were 20 years ago – they are obviously not now.
You attacked John Solomon’s reporting over Ukraine as Russian disinformation – proving you are completely out of touch with reality.
What is it that it would take for you to believe anything that does not fit your fit your ideology ?
And you think Election litigation has ended ?
If you are suing Trump for disenfranchisement – you are an obvious clueless idiot.
Whether you like it or not – Exercising your constitutional rights is not disenfranchisement.
Further, making such a claim is legally stupid.
All the “losses” you claim, are refusals to hold hearings, to examine the evidence.
When you claim “disenfranchisement” – you surrender the ability to block evidence of fraud.
Yopu create exactly what Trump was after – the opportunity to look at the evidence on its merits.
I am opposed to absentee voting, I am opposed to early voting. I am opposed to making voting easier.
All of these things destabilize government.
If you want stable government, that can only be acheived by limited govenrment – you can not get broad support for activist government – one policy or another will be a bridge too far for someone.
All these and much more that the left seeks are very bad ideas.
But none of the above are unconstitutional.
Mailin voting violates the requirements of the secret ballot provisions of 38 state constitutions. Mailin voting and actual absentee voting are NOT the same thing.
If the ballot leaves the direct supervision of election officials – that violates the requirements of secret voting.
I have no idea what litigation you are talking about.
But the Pennsylvania Supreme Court is a complete basket case. You discussed pre-election cases. The PA case is top of the list.
The PA supreme court OPENLY and admittedly, violated the PA Constitution. SCOTUS split 4:4, The State ignored Alito’s direction as the Justice responsible for the 3rd circuit to follow the existing election laws. And after Barrett joined the court it was too late and the issue was moot.
Another one of your purported victories.
The WI supreme court has ruled TWICE that the Wisconsin Election Commission violated Wiconsin law and that the 2020 election was Lawless,
But it also ruled that the issue was moot – with regard to the 2020 election – not because the actions were not lawless, not because they did not fascilitate fraud, but because there is no possible COURT remedy. WI Scotus did not rule that the 2020 election was lawful or not fraud ridden.
They ruled that it was outside of their power to fix the elections problems. And that is another one of your court wins.
John, you’ve done it. 10 extensive posts and 1 novel later, you’ve “proven” voter fraud… with arguments like ‘if the governor said it was legal to kill people, would you do it?” and proving that that was equivalent to being instructed by the state authorities who provided said drop boxes that the use of them was legal during a PANDEMIC.
Now show me one court case where it’s been ruled that your line of illogical reasoning has merit and there was actual widespread FRAUD in this election as those behind 2000 miles and John Solomon would like the public to believe. If you can’t do that then you are wasting everyone’s time including your own.
As I told your friend S. Meyer who only provided cases filed prior to the election one of which was decided before the election and showed no voter fraud, merely government acting outside their authority according to a strict interpretation ruling, I don’t have time for the nonsense from far right zealots with a degree in con-artistry courtesy of trump university.
Pizzagate ruined lives, Qanons fake conspiracies have led to domestic terrorism, and now we have these fringe theories leading to innocent people like lady Ruby and her daughter Shay under constant fear thanks to the nutcases you follow. Please put a stop to it or put up or shut up in court.
The 2000 mules data proves election fraud beyond any doubt.
Again – we are past was there large scale fraud.
I listed what is not proven yet – but it is the details – were the trafficked ballots forged, coerced, induced ?
I missed the part of the constitution that says – in case of pandemic – burn.
If the rule of law does not work in difficult times – it does not work at all.
And we are stuck with anarchy and chaos.
As I noted – you had MONTHS – almost a year to change the laws if you felt that was necescary.
You tried to take advantage of a mostly manufactured crisis to transform society.
And you failed.
I would also run from hanging your hat on Covid – as there is nothing government has done using covid as a justification that has worked.
Covid is an excellent example of the failure of the experts.
The real world is complex, One size fits all solutions do not work.
Odinary people – often stupid ones, on the whole make better choices in their own lifes that experts make for them.
Because they know their own lives and they have “skin in the game”.
Today there are 1M Us covid deaths – 70% of those under Biden.
By the 2020 election we had only seen 20% of covid deaths.
Are you really so dense as to beleive that your destruction of the rule of law and destruction of trust in elections saved a single life ?
A pandemic is not an excuse.
For pretty much anything.
The death rate from the Spanish Flu was much higher – yet we did nothing – going about our business.
That is usually the best policy especially regarding government.
Show me ONE court case anywhere that has ruled there was NOT wide spread fraud ?
You do not seem to understand how courts work.
No court will ever have the case “Was there wide spread fraud in the US”
There will never be a ruling deciding there was.
There will never be one deciding there was not.
All the cases will be was this specific narrow allegation of fraud true.
ALL your alleged victories – were on the basis of standing, or mootness – they did not look at the actual evidence.
“Show me ONE court case anywhere that has ruled there was NOT wide spread fraud ?
You do not seem to understand how courts work.“
Pause…
Re-examine the logic of what I’m dealing with here.
John B, you can write 50 books to respond to each post I direct at you to feel you’ve proven your point and won the debate but that first sentence shows you’re illogical to begin with.
‘There’s no court case ruling there was “NOT” wide spread voter fraud…therefore voter fraud must have occurred!’
Are you kidding me!?
You know you seem like a skilled con-artist to me, even though you didn’t attend Trump University (and you don’t exactly have to in order to understand how he made a fortune conning people, since he inherited one to start with and as Buffett said would have done better with his investments if he’d left them alone), and I don’t know where you were on the night of Nov 24, 1971, and there’s no court case ruling you are “NOT” DB Cooper, therefore I have proved you are DB Cooper. Case closed.
You cite Arizona ballot harvesting as if this proves trumps case when the only Arizona ballot harvesting case I’ve seen from 2020 was related to someone (Guillerma Fuentes) collecting early votes from august 4th for the primary (it was made illegal there in 2016). You said I’d yet to list the aforementioned trump losses. Here is a list I’d previously refered to:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
And these were the pre-election lawsuits
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
Now which cases do you have where widespread voter fraud seems more likely than not related to the 2020 General Election? I mean 2000 mules with a fraud like D’Souza hyping the chupacabra level footage and spinning the ttv records must have surely resulted in any number of successful cases right? All those millions in donations to trumps election challenge cases and dozens of cases filed over 2 years, surely this has been filed under oath…right?! Right!? I mean this wasn’t just another Scam by Don the con, right? Say it ain’t so Mr B!
Well you guys have fun debating the election conspiracy that credentialed conservatives like Raffensperger etc have written off as nuts. Word of warning because I think you’re good hearted albeit misled…don’t give trump too much of your hard earned money and expect him to use it for anything but self enrichment.
Finally on Shokin, a little research will show that EU diplomats were pushing for it well before Biden got involved: “All of us were really pushing [former Ukrainian president Petro] Poroshenko that he needs to do something, because the prosecutor was not following any of the corruption issues. He was really bad news,” said an EU diplomat involved in the discussions. “It was Biden who finally came in [and triggered it]. Biden was the most vocal, as the US usually is. But we were all literally complaining about the prosecutor.”
I understand exactly how Courts work – I just turned your idiotic remark that demonstrates that YOU don’t back at you.
I can wrote 50 posts because I am familiar with the actual facts.
You clearly are not.
My posts are filled with Facts – here you provide a reply that is more nonsense about what you feel.
You would have fewer and shorter responses if you made fewer errors, and made better arguments.
Defaming me is not an argument.
BTW con artists do not make arguments using facts, they play on your emotions – read your own posts for examples.
Buffet can say whatever he wants.
Trump inherited approximately 100m. He is worth about 2.6B.
Further he has been successful at Residential real estate in NYC., Commercial Real Estate in NYC.
Global Commerical and residential Real Estate, Hospitality, Cassino’s Television, Beauty P agents and politics.
Very very few people are successful in ONE major field – that would be Buffet, or Gates.
People who are successful at multiple ones – Like Musk and Trump are very rare.
Buffet is much wealthier than Trump, he does not have nearly the breadth of knowledge and skills.
That is NOT an oppinion it is a fact reflected in the evidence.
Billionaire con men are very rare. As Lincoln said – you can not foll all of the people all of the time.
If you spend your life conning people – once you get caught – no one of consequence trusts you again.
Do you think Deutche Bank did not do massive due dilligence before loaning Trump hundreds of millions ?
Something is not true just because some left wing nut says it.
“I don’t know where you were on the night of Nov 24, 1971, and there’s no court case ruling you are “NOT” DB Cooper, therefore I have proved you are DB Cooper. Case closed.”
Great analogy of your own arguments.
Would that be This Raffensberger ?
“Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger says his office is investigating new allegations of ballot harvesting and the registration of non-citizens to vote in the 2020 election.”
Would that be the Raffensberger that has decertified Fultonj county because of a long history of election fraud including in the 2020 election ?
https://georgiastarnews.com/2021/06/14/fulton-county-election-official-admits-chain-of-custody-documents-missing-for-2020-absentee-ballots-deposited-in-drop-boxes/
This Raffensberger ?
https://www.walb.com/2021/10/11/sos-raffensperger-wants-doj-probe-fulton-shredding/
Or this one ?
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/brad-raffensperger-secretary-of-state-georgia-fulton-county/2020/06/09/id/971413/
Wow. you clearly know nothing about 2000 Mules or the TTV ballot harvesting investigations.
No spinning is necescary.
If you bother to look – there is much more TTV ballot box video that is available or youtube or rumble or many other sites.
There is detailed under oath testimony of how the data was collected – how devices were tracked and how accurately GeoFencing is able to track a device.
In several states such as GA those “credentialed conservatives” you tout Did little or nothing to thwart election lawlessness, essentially they were made complicit.
Getting Raffensberger to admit that the election that he was responsible for was fraud ridden has been incredibly difficult.
Aparently there are many inside his own office who have noted that he is out of touch with what actually happened in GA.
Over the past almost two years he has been practically forced to admit serious election fraud issues – including publicly announcing investigations.
But there is little confidence that he will not sabotage the investigations he has announced.
Finding problem in GA is not in Raffensberg’s political interests.
This is more generally true through out the country – the court cases you tout are judges that were often asked to stop the lawlessness before the election – who failed to do so. they are thus predisposed to turn a blind eye to it after the election.
With respect to Shokin – you keep making claims without evidence.
Who is your quote from, Where is your quote from and When and Why are we supposed to beleive who ever you cite
Your own quote is almost self refuting – there is plenty of evidence that Shokin was actively persuing Burisma – There was a large public case in the UK that ended up collapsing because Shokin was fired. The US state department documents demonstrate tha tShokin was not merely persuing Burisma, but specifically Hunter Biden – a motive for Joe to intervene.
And why is it that you think whatever random EU diplomat you purportedly cited had any knowledge of what Shokin was actually doing ?
Today we get LOTS of speculation regarding Hunter Biden – but nothing about that investigation is actually known. Further the investigation started BEFORE Trump asked Zellensky to look into the Biden’s corrupt conduct in Ukraine, But Almost no one – not journalists, not congressmen found out about Barr’s investigation of Biden until after the election.
And finally your argument is stupid. We are expected to buy what people Outside the Ukrainian prosecutors SAY, rather that what documents and evidence FORM the ukrainian prosecutors and the US state department prove.
Shokin was purportedly corrupt and not investigating Burisma – because some unidentified diplomat says so, because Biden’s task force said so, because Sorros affiliated groups said so, but documents that prove there was an active investigation, Because communications between Biden’s attorney’s and the US state department attempting to get assistance in stopping the investigation , because documents proving that Shokin was scheduled to interview Hunter Biden just days after Shokin was fired – these in left wing nut world mean nothing ?
Finally – Shokin is unique among Ukrainian politicians in that he has no actual links to corruption, he has no oligarch sugar daddy, he reigned as Biden demanded and retired quietly. And not to some luxury Dacha.
Solomon does not want anyone to BELEIVE anything.
He reported the FACTS.
Here is the list.
Frankly I think he ignored many more significant problems.
Regardless, here is the link.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/bombshells-belie-big-lie-21-confirmed-illegalities-irregularities-2020
But rather than some fact free rant – how about a point by point response,
Or even a response to 5 or six points.
Anything that is not a long defamatory rant and actually addressing the issues.
“John B says: I understand exactly how Courts work – I just turned your idiotic remark that demonstrates that YOU don’t back at you.”
“ John B also says: Show me ONE court case anywhere that has ruled there was NOT wide spread fraud ?”
Pause… so asking for proof that a court has ruled in favor of your allegations is the same as demanding proof of innocence? This is inane. Go to law-school or crack open a book on US law basics to understand no one needs to open a case to prove a crime did “NOT” occur.
“John say says: Buffet can say whatever he wants.
Trump inherited approximately 100m. He is worth about 2.6B.”
‘In July 2015, federal election regulators released new details of Trump’s self-reported wealth and financial holdings when he became a Republican presidential candidate, reporting that his assets are worth above $1.4 billion, which includes at least $70 million in stocks, and a debt of at least $265 million.’ So before he conned you all into donating money to his election challenges etc it was about half that being generous.
“John b says: Do you think Deutche Bank did not do massive due dilligence before loaning Trump hundreds of millions ?”
Reuters notes he was dropped from future lending in 2021 from DB, and earlier reports showed the loans were likely secured by co-signing from Russian oligarchs. Lawrence O retracted the allegation since it only had a single source and DB was unwilling to verify (I imagine they need to keep an image of customer privacy even if true). The articles you linked from Solomon seem to be more than willing to site a single source per point. And those points are often overblown or ignore all countervailing evidence. See for instance:
https://www.gpb.org/news/2021/06/17/fact-check-fulton-county-not-missing-ballots-or-hundreds-of-drop-box-custody-forms
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/14/politics/fulton-county-ballot-drop-box-investigation/index.html
‘The article notes that in the tally sheet documents uploaded on the state’s website, Fulton has several data entry errors — appearing to duplicate batches, missing some batch numbers and failing to check boxes about unsealing the container before counting.’
‘But there are more human explanations to the paperwork — as well as a reminder that the results of that audit were not certified and did not affect the initial or final counts of the election.’
‘As for the notes from Seven Hills Strategies that suggest fraudulent activity, according to copies of the reports obtained by GPB News, the monitor found plenty of parts of the process that need improvement, but no evidence of fraud.’
‘It is also important to remember the context for these claims as well as the messengers: All of this comes days before a hearing to potentially dismiss a case seeking to inspect higher resolution scans of Fulton’s absentee ballots that many in the pro-Trump sphere are heralding as the doorway to somehow “forensically audit” Georgia’s votes — a fantasy that is undermining trust in the Republican-picked and Republican-controlled election system ahead of a contentious 2022 statewide election.’
‘A source with knowledge of the investigation cautioned to CNN that the probe “does not have any implications about fraudulent or missing ballots in Fulton any more than it meant that in the other smaller, more conservative counties,”’
“John B says: In fact TTV used their GeoTracking data to provide Atlanta Police with evidence to identify the killer in an unsolved murder.”
That’s been disproven. I can’t provide more than 2 links per post to my knowledge but just Google ‘A pro-Trump film suggests its data are so accurate, it solved a murder. That’s false’
You’ll find an NPR article among others also stating ‘That claim is false.
Authorities in Georgia arrested and secured indictments against two suspects in the murder of Secoriea Turner in August 2021.
In response to NPR’s inquiries, True The Vote acknowledged it had contacted law enforcement more than two months later, meaning it played no role in those arrests or indictments.
It’s not the only false or misleading claim that True The Vote and Dinesh D’Souza, the director behind “2,000 Mules,” have made, NPR found.’
‘A Washington Post analysis summarized the film’s allegations as a leap of faith – “we’re just asked to trust that True the Vote found what it says it found.” True The Vote and D’Souza have disputed those fact-checks.
NPR’s reporting has raised additional questions about True the Vote and the film’s trustworthiness. Dinesh D’Souza did not respond to NPR’s requests for comment.’
“John B says: Several people have already been convicted of ballot traficking in AZ based on the TTV/2000 mules evidence.”
Who? Who was convicted, name the court cases and show that it was related to ballot trafficking in the general election.
“John B says: In otherwords the evidence for your defamation is your feeling ?”
It’s not a feeling that the guy was a hyper partisan pushing the Ukraine Shokin propaganda. I’ve laid that out. EU investigated prior to Biden’s involvement. Prove otherwise. You can defend his rep all you want but on this he was too far right for fox and has only gotten worse sense it seems.
“I think that all redistricting challenges should fail – there is just no such thing as a correct way to create districts.”
Based on what? A feeling? Racial Gerrymandering for one has been proven unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. He voting rights act used to ensure appropriate oversight of former confederate states redistributing to ensure protection of minorities voting rights. There is a reason for that.
“John B says: Regardless in the real world vicroies by a few thousand votes in 6 states are not landslides.”
Biden won by millions of votes and the same number of electoral votes trump previously declared a landslide.
“John B says: Regardless, neither were going to be detected before Jan. 6. An immediate thorough audit likely would have flipped GA and probably AZ, and would have narrowed the election elsewhere, but would have left Biden as president – based on what was knowable by Jan 6.”
We’ve had 3 Fulton county recounts and 2 years since and you’ve proven nothing of the sort.
“John B says: I am sure we do. Yours is hyper partisan. You see things trhat are not there with the nonsense from the J6 committee, and you are blind to clear and convincing evidence of actual fraud.”
I’m hyper partisan yet I’ve merely pointed out the truth that these things you’ve alleged that the election was stolen and there was widespread voter fraud, “proven”, has yet to be “proven” in any court. What you have are allegations and some evidence that the election was as imperfectly procedurally followed as many are, with data entry errors such as failing to check boxes before counting, that are overblown by your friend Solomon, who was too far right for fox, and a felon director D’Souza.
Clear and convincing proven in what court? We’re talking about allegations of voter fraud here not the J6 committee. But we can do that too:
“John B says: Was there a single molotov cocktail at J6 ?”
We had someone plant a bomb at the dnc headquarters, insurrectionists with a noose ready to hang the Vice President, people threatening the lives of pelosi, AOC and anyone else they didn’t like admitting they likely would have killed them. We’ve had a plot to kidnap a governor and blow up bridges as revealed by an FBI agent. Do you think it was leftists who blew up the Georgian stone henge? Who are arming themselves with weapons of war left right and center and arguing the 2nd amendment ensures there is no right to restrict them?
You can pretend J6 was a nothingburger all you want but your own parties statements immediately thereafter as well as Hawley’s tracks through the capital prove otherwise. The number of lunatics sentenced over their actions that day also proves otherwise. Now how many have been sentenced for “illegal ballot harvesting” and “voter trafficking” in these overblown allegations of yours? I know D’Souza did his time for campaign fraud but surely you’ve found a list of “mules” on the left who have been sentenced for their “crimes” in the 2020 general election.
“John B: The US has not had honest elections in my lifetime.”
Yet you’re here trying to justify trumps scheme for alternate electors to overturn the 2020 election, as if that would make elections more honest. Take it to court, wallow in ignorance with S. Meyer anointing the great right champion Solomon and Felon D’Souza until the end of time. or throw more money at trump hoping he’ll use it for investigations he knows are going nowhere. I don’t really care at this point. I’ve pointed out the flaws in your reasoning and your overconfident statements made on extremely shaky ground in an effort to mislead. Anymore time and effort spent on refuting this inane rabbit hole the far right has produced to give Trump the minuscule grounds he needs to make a mountain out of a molehill and claim he won would be unreasonable. If you want to pay me for it I’ll bill you at the low rate of $300/hr because it’s kind of fun shooting down fringe conspiracies. We can find a mechanism that preserves all parties anonymity if so interested. Otherwise good luck with the propaganda.
You really are completely clueless.
I turned your argument arround to prove how stupid and invalid it was.
Courts do not “rule” on questions they are not and often can not be asked.
Court cases are nearly always specific – Are the drop boxes in WI constitutional, legal – and the WI SCOTUS “ruled” no.
YOU said no court has ruled there was widespread fraud. Of course not. No court has been asked to rule that.
Frankly all the cases that Trump lost were attempts to get the court to open the door and conduct hearings into fraud allegations specific to that courts jurisdiction.
And the courts said no on grounds like Standing or mootness, not the merits.
Your attacking me for turning your argument arround and point out how foolish it was.
No one does need to prove a crime did not occur. The default assumption is that there is no crime.
That is more than the presumption of innocence. It is the real world where almost all human actions are NOT crimes.
But Government IS obligated to prove that the elections it conducted can be trusted.
The legitimacy of government rests on the trust of ALL the people.
And unlike crime government has the burden of proving the negative.
There is no “right” for government to exist – not generally, and not with respect to a specific government.
Legitimacy is conferred by lawful and trustworthy elections.
Your personal belief that an election is both lawful and trustworthy is meaningful only for you.
Right now the proportion of people who do not trust the 2020 election may be a majority of people,
certainly is a plurality.
That is a failure of GOVERNMENT to secure the trust of the people.
The declaration of independence was not just flowery words.
It was a legal and logical argument justifying WAR with the UK.
It was a statement of principles of governance.
One of the first of which is government exists at the pleasure of the people, for the purpose of protecting their rights,
and should people fail to trust government they are free to abolish it.
Those of you on the left do not understand – you have lost the trust of the people.
You can not blame them for that.
Nor are you entitled to trust absent proof of fraud or malfeasance.
Government exists only by the consent and trust of the people.
“Biden won by millions of votes”
It is nonsense like that that demonstrates your tenuous grip on reality.
There is nothing in the constitution about people voting for president.
You are free to try and change that.
But the constitution specifies that the state legislatures determine how the electoral votes for there state are allocated.
When you start talking about an electoral college landslide – you further show your tenuous grip on reality.
First you completely undermine your argument that Trump did anything wrong by trying to get congress to certify the slates of electors fromt he state legislatures.
You can not seem to figure out whether the votes of the public matter.
And you fail to grasp that that electoral landslide you talk about was the consequence of about 300,000 votes in 6 states.
Biden’s victory was the result of less than 45,000 votes in 3 states, Flip 100,000 votes and Republicans control the house, the Senate and the presidency.
2020 was so close that 0.03% of the vote dictated who was president.
Do you understand that if TTV’s LOW Ball estimate of the ballot harvesting fraud is a factor of 10 to high – Biden could still lose.
The entire point I have been trying to make – which you are clueless, but most of the country understand’s is that the closer the election the more likely that Fraud, lawlessness and other corrupt choices are.
Following the law, thwarting Corruption, Conducting the entire process out in the open matters MOST when things are close.
You do not have the ability to behave such that you can be trusted.
Who should trust the people who tried to sell the country the Collusion Delusion HOAX ?
Or the myriads of other lies you have pushed ?
Everything you, the left democrats do is about gaining power over others.
Republicans chanted “lock her up” – but they never did anything when they could.
But you do seek to lock up anyone who tries to get in your way.
You are not trustworthy.
“Based on what?”
Aparently you can not read.
Based on the FACT that there is NOT an objectively correct means to allocate congressional districts.
“Racial Gerrymandering for one has been proven unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.”
Nothing has been proven, it has been DECLARED a violation of the 14th amendment by the CONSERVATIVE justices.
Racial Gerrymandering is MANDATED by democrats who claim that minority majority districts are a requirement of the VRA.
You ar so clueless you do not even know where Racial Gerrymandering comes from.
“The voting rights act used to ensure appropriate oversight of former confederate states redistributing to ensure protection of minorities voting rights.”
Actually – according to DEMOCRATS – the VRA REQUIRED racial gerrymandering.
“There is a reason for that.” – Yes, democrats have always been corrupt.
Your allegations regarding DB are obviously false.
Mueller subpeonad DB’s records.
Do you honestly think if loans were co-signed by Russian oligarchs that would not have made the Mueller report ?
Regardless, what MSM reporting about Trump has been correct ?
With respect to Trump’s finances – He has not gone bankrupt in the past 6 years.
Are you honestly so stupid you think someone is propping him up with Billions – and not leaving any evidence ?
BTW the Russian Oligarch that purportedly was cosigning Trump’s loans is tied to Clinton, not Trump.
You are incapable of rational thought.
In left Wing nut world – Putin/Russians Helped Trump win the 2016 election – cosigned loans, rigged the vote, so that President Trump could screw Russia with most of his policies. American energy independence – is a MASSIVE negative for Russia. Getting NATO to cover its own defense costs is a MASSIVE negative for Russia.
Trump did not SAY bad things about Russia or Putin, He did things that were in American’s interest. And he did them despite the fat that they were Harmful to Russia’s interest.
Only an idiot would still be pushing this Trump/Russia nonsense.
It is Clinton, Biden. Democrats that are in bed with Putin and Russian Oligarchs.
Right now Ukraine (and the world) is paying the price for bad democratic policies and a weak democratic president.
I actually support SOME of the things Biden has done. But they would not have had to be done, but for his bad policies and weakness.
Biden has to be forceful, with Putin an Xi right now – because he has screwed up and made himself and this country look weak.
This administration would rather have to embarrass itself going begging to the same Saudi’s that it said it would not deal with rather than back down on stupid policies.
Russia is more dangerous today, China is more dangerous today, Ukraine is suffering, This country is suffering, Iran is more dangerous. The mideast is more dangerous, the world is more dangerous – because of stupid democratic policies imposed over less than 2 years.
So in your world an anonymous single source story that makes no sense at all in reuters, is more credible than a John solomon story backed up by hundreds of documents – including, memo’s and emails from the State Department ?
You have a very odd idea of credibility.
“Who? Who was convicted, name the court cases and show that it was related to ballot trafficking in the general election.”
Google is your friend.
I have already posted many links.
Regardless, I do not make factual claims that I can not back up.
And I have done so. many many times.
I have established a reputation for accuracy and truth.
You are part of the collusion delusion crowd.
I do not owe you proof for my claims – though I have often provided it.
Because you have been wrong so often – you owe EVERYONE proof for your claims.
Trust is earned – I have earned it, you have not.
“It’s not a feeling that the guy was a hyper partisan pushing the Ukraine Shokin propaganda.”
Actually it is.
“I’ve laid that out.”
Nope.
” EU investigated prior to Biden’s involvement.”
Nope.
“Prove otherwise.”
Burden of proof is your.
Solomon has provided documents – sworn testimony, memos from the state department.
You have vague claims – at best supported by some anonymous sourced lame stream media story.
” You can defend his rep all you want”
I do not need to. His track record speaks for itself.
“but on this he was too far right for fox”
That is YOUR claim. Evidence ?
“and has only gotten worse sense it seems.”
Solomon is doing fine. BTW I was quickly about to find him on Fox in late June.
I am sure if I spent the time I can find him in July.
Google is your friend.
Greenwald is doing fine.,
Taibbi is doing fine.
Barri Weis is doing fine.
Myriads of journalists who actually care about the Truth rather than leftist politics are off on their own, independent and doing perfectly well.
“We’ve had 3 Fulton county recounts and 2 years since and you’ve proven nothing of the sort.”
Nope, we have had reports that Recounts WOULD happen.
There has been no actual recount in GA. There was a recanvas, which is not close to the same thing.
There have been partial recounts in various places in GA – all of which have found problems.
And you do know that a recount can not detect most forms of election fraud.
The one Election claim that was dispatched by the AZ audit was the claim that the DVS scanners do not accurately count the votes.
While the AZ audit found lots of problems with the DVS elections systems – including that they were highly hackable.
The audit did confirm within a very small margin of error that every ballot was counted correctly.
The AZ audit found lots of problems – many strong indicators of Fraud. It also found many POTENTIAL problems with the electronic counting systems, But it did find that these systems had accurately counted the ballots they were fed.
As I noted – Trump would not have gotten anywhere from thorough recounts.
Sydney Powells claims regarding Election systems may be possible, the AZ audit proved the systems were trivially hackable.
But Trump did not lose in 2020 because DVS cooked the vote count.
“I’m hyper partisan yet I’ve merely pointed out the truth”
Nope,
On point after point you have been WRONG.
Where you rarely offer more than feelings and defamation to support a claim – that support is – vague claims about unsourced or anonymous single sourced articles in media that has failed us time and again.
You seem to think that alleging something makes it true.
Solomon still appears on Fox and other places, he is doing fine, and he supports his stories with plenty of documentation – something the rest of the MSM could learn.
I am glad you are atleast admitting to procedural errors.
Yes, some small number of errors are unavoidable.
But we are dealing with more than small numbers of unavoidable errors.
The WI supreme court did not find that the WEC made a small error.
It found hey violated the WI law and the WI constitution – and they did so large scale.
The WI supreme court found that the WEC’s illegal and unconstitutional actions put the courts in the untenable position of having to choose between allowing lawlessness and potential fraud, or tossing millions of votes.
That is not a tiny procedural error.
The WI cases are especially relevant because the illegal and uncounstitutional Ballot Dropboxes enable the illegal Ballot Harvesting.
Again not a small thing.
“What you have are allegations and some evidence that the election was as imperfectly procedurally followed as many are, with data entry errors such as failing to check boxes before counting”
Nope,
As I have noted over and over – 38 states counstitutions including 5 of the swing states, require Secret Balloting.
Mailin voting is not Secret Balloting. It can not meet the requirements of secret balloting.
Mailin voting in those states whose constitutions require secret balloting is illegal and unconstitutional.
That is tens of millions of illegal and unconstitutional votes.
And that is BEFORE addressing illegal Ballot Harvesting and Fraud.
And No I am not talking about not checking off boxes.
All states have chain of custody requirements for all transfers of ballots. This is a critical anti-fraud measure.
This is what prevents corrupt people from stuffing ballot boxes.
I would note TTV recently conducted forensic analysis of the Ballot Box video they have for many WI ballot boxes.
They had people tediously count the number of ballots that were deposited into each ballot dropbox each day, and they then compared those counts to the official tallies of the number of ballots purportedly picked up from those ballot boxes.
The numbers are not even close. Election officials are reporting approximately 5 times as many ballots from these dropboxes as were actually put into them each day.
The Federal government is incredibly good at tracing bombs. Who has been arrested for these alleged pipe bombs ?
There is a story about a pipe bomb at the RNC headquarters, but still no actual confirmation. charges or prosecution of that.
J6 protestors also attacked AOC in her office – or atleast that is what AOC claimed – yet, there were none near her offices.
Your fears are do not make the actions of others crimes.
The molotov cocktails are not “alleged” – we have news footage of burning police cars and people throwing the molotov cocktails into them.
In atleast one instance – with officiers in the car.
Was VP Pence hanged ? You do not seem to be able to tell the difference between a symbol and actual violence.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who wold pervert the Constitution”
Lincoln
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_DWgUnPWZog/UeDU5l8ZkQI/AAAAAAAAAWo/moPHTfuBdZc/s1600/v+for+1.jpg
If you actually find real pipe bombs anywhere – at the RNC or DNC – I fully support investigating and prosecuting whoever is responsible.
Further the FBI and ATF have an excellent track record tracing real pipe bombs.
If here were real pipe bombs – the perpitrators would have been caught by now.
But even if I am wrong – catch them and prosecute them to the full extent of he law.
Prosecute those who commit political arson or bombings to the full extent of the law. Left, Right, I do not care.
But I do not trust you – or your sources. Because you and they have a long record of error, of lying.
You cited AOC – how appropriate – who better to demonstrate the conflation of personal emotions with facts.
“Yet you’re here trying to justify trumps scheme for alternate electors to overturn the 2020 election, as if that would make elections more honest. ”
Absolutely. One of several reasons that the constitution leaves the selection of electors to legislatures, and gives congress the final choice regarding the election is to address fraud.
When our state executives and election officials have conducted lawless elections, When they have allowed possibly large scale fraud. when the courts have buried their heads to hide their own complicity in that lawlessness and fraud – then it is the duty of congress to correct that.
You are so fixated on your beleif that there was nothing wrong with this election – despite massive evidence of lawlessness and fraud, that you are unable to grasp that even if you do not accept that happened in 2020 – the there must be a remedy for a fraudulent and/or lawless election.
The courts are supposed to be part of that remedy, the legislatures are part of that remedy. Congress is part of that remedy, and if all else fails – actual insurrection is the final remedy.
Accross the world people have fought, died and killed to overturn fraudulent or lawless elections – and we have applauded them.
The elections were taken to court.
Th courts refused to listen. The refused to hold hearings, to allow witnesses to be called to, allow those who signed affadavits alleging fraud to testify and be cross examined. to allow subpeona’s to be issued.
Hillary Clinton and her cronies made up the Steele Dossier – and the FBI and DOJ spent years investigating it.
Yet thousands of affadavits reporting election fraud – could not even get a hearing in court.
And you wonder why J6 happened ?
You should be thankful protesters did not come with AR-15’s.
The 2.6B value comes from Forbes appraisal of his known assets.
FEC reporting is specific to the financial activities of elections, NOT wealth.
No one is required to report their wealth to govenrment.
Thjere is no case EVER that has showed no voter Fraud.
No court would be so stupid as to rule that.
Of your before J6 cases a few editorialized that had they botrhered to hold hearings ont he evidence these would not have resulted in proof of fraud.
Such speculation is stupid and does not belong in court oppinions. The courts rejected election cases that sought remedies that would have “overturned” the election on the basis of standing and/or mootness.
No court ACTUALLY examined the evidence – that requires hearings, subponea’s and witnesses.
NONE of your cases involved that.
Nearly ALL the subsequent victories come from Hearings, and witness testimony and evidence presented and heard.
You should be so lucky as to have a degree from Trump U.
Regardless, defamation is not argument.
So far you have not made an actual credible argument.
I had to look up “pizzagate” as it is something only those on the left rant about.
Wikipedia has a whole lot of extraneous nonsense about the hacking of podesta’s emails.
But hidden is what is supposed to be the core that high ranking government officials were involved in a human trafficking ring.
I do not know or care much about the details.
But the CIA inspector generals report found that several dozen people in the CIA was disemninating child porn from their work computers and were only lightly disciplined for what is a federal crime.
The IG further noted that this went way beyond the CIA – but that was the limits to his domain.
So how has Qanon led to domestic Terrorism ?
Hochul said derogatory things about Rep. Zeldin and called people to protest his campaign – resulting on one person trying to stab him.
That appears to be conspiracy nonsense leading to domestic terrorism.
We have had a poor assassination attempt on Justice Kavanaugh.
I lost count of the number of Crisis pregnancy centers the left has attacked, arson, vandalizm, bomb threats,
I do not recall McConnell saying
“I want to tell you, Sotomayor. I want to tell you Kagan. You have unleashed a whirlwind, and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions”
How many far right lawyers (or anyone on the right) has firebombed police cars in the past few years.
Was there a single molotov cocktail at J6 ?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/06/the-lefts-political-violence-problem/
I have put up RIGHT HERE.
Whether you like it or not – that is actually where it matters.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, ”
When out courts and government fail – we have the right to alter or abolish them.
Through honest elections when we can get them – through violence if necescary when we can not.
You do not seem to grasp that your unwillingness to allow examination of the facts increases the likelyhood that the remedy will be violent.
J6 is the result of your 67 cases that refused to look at the actual merits.
I will agree with you that no court is going o “overturn” the 2020 election today.
The WI supreme court was probably correct when it found that WI election laws were violated in ways the outcome of the election.
But that after the fact that lawlessness was not correctable by the courts.
That remains true, and is true in every state. SCOTUS essentially ruled the same in dismissing the Lawsuit against PA as moot.
Most of what you call court victories ARE NOT.
When a court says you do not have standing to challenge something – that does no mean you are wrong.
When the court says that an issue is moot – that does not mean you are wrong.
What has not happened – is any real examination of the credible allegations.
Whether those like you like it or not – the AZ audit found evidence of MASSIVE violations of AZ election law, violations that COULD have reflected large scale election fraud. But the Audit did not find incontrovertable proof of Fraud.
Whether you like it or not the 2000 Mules evidence is much the same – TTV PROVED large scale ballot harvesting – which is illegal in every state except CA. What they did not prove is that Fraud altered the outcome.
Nearly very election challenge suffers the same problem – nearly every single form of Fraud alleged in 2020 even if proven is not reversable.
The very same secret ballot constitutional requirements that make mailin voting unconstitutional in 38 states, also require that even if you could prove exactly which mailin ballot envelopes were fraudulent, there is no possible way to know how those fraudulent votes were cast.
It is obvious to the majority of the country that Joe Biden was the beneficiary of that lawlessness. But once they are separated, ballot envelopes can not be tied to the ballots and therefore votes cast. In the case of the ballot harvesting claims – the proof problem is worse.
It is proven large scale orgainize ballot harvesting occurred, But it is not even possible to prove which ballot envelopes were harvested.
So you have between 380,000 and 800,000 ballots in 6 states that were illegal. But it is not possible to know which specific ones.
Currenty it is also not possible to know if those ballots were actual ballots cast be real persons, that were just conveyed illegally, or whether the were coerced, induced or forged.
But given actual investigation it is still possible to know that.
Almost no one beleives that at this point in time the 2020 election can be overturned.
The last opportunity to do that was January 6, 2021.
That does not mean it was a legal and honest election.
One of the reasons that there is such great reluctance by those on the left to look at the obvious Fraud in 2020 is that doing so FURTHER legitimizes J6.
Regardless, your unwillingness to allow actual investigation of election fraud, undermines YOUR legitimacy.
Hillary got every investigation of the 2016 election she wanted – including pushing DOJ/FBI into investigating the collusion delusion hoax of her own creation.
Nothing was found. Despite the most massive investigation by Law enforcement at multiple levels, bu the intelligence community, by the press ever done before – the end result NOTHING.
If the left had 1/100 the evidence of the Biden/Ukraine corruption – Trump would have been impeached by republicans.
“Whether you like it or not the 2000 Mules evidence is much the same – TTV PROVED large scale ballot harvesting – which is illegal in every state except CA. What they did not prove is that Fraud altered the outcome.”
John B, you and I have very different definitions of PROVED. I would venture you and every courtroom in America do as well. If you disagree I would encourage you to share “proof” that one court room has relied on the evidence presented in 2000 miles to show voter fraud indeed occurred.
Solomons credibility is in question and if you disagree you’re free to debate it with someone else, I don’t have time nor was it the original topic, more an aside. At best I’ll say he was once a respected conservative figure who lost it as he went increasingly fringe, a la Giuliani. At worst on this topic in particular he’s a propagandist who twists and manipulated facts to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Was Obama thrilled Hunter was getting paid by a foreign energy company who clearly wanted to use his image to their advantage, the same way trumps kids and step kids, manafort etc are getting paid by foreign entities at worst? Of course not, if gave the appearance of wrongdoing by the administration even when none existed. I call your credibility into question however when you parrot these allegations without the immediate asterisk/caveat that Shokin was fired because he wasn’t doing enough to prosecute companies like Burisma. It would be one thing if the US was the only entity urging his firing, but it was the entire EU among others that wanted him gone. That would have been the case whether Hunter joined the board or not. There’s no there there.
The real controversy is that trump tried to pressure Zelensky into saying there was by withholding funds. In your debate with yourself I’d ask that you address this withholding of funds in full and try to justify it.
“Solomons credibility is in question “
CK07: Why is his credibility in doubt when he provides links to the evidence he uses for his column, and at best, the Washington Post cites anonymous sources that are now known to be false. These falsehoods make your responses not credible unless you have proof to back things up. Proof is something not obtained when some left-wing people slimed Solomon.
Over the past 5 years Solomon has been proven correct, while the Washington Post has been proven wrong. You, however, wish to stand with the Washington Post proven errors. Why would you do such a thing to your credibility?
How many sources did Theranos cite and spin in it’s literature? Citing sources when making improperly misleading statements such as anything that implies Shokin was pressured to leave for anything other than not doing his job is the definition of spin.
Solomon cited sources that Hunter worked for Burisma that was using their name to it’s advantage the same way all the trump kids and cronies do with foreign firms, yay!
That doesn’t mean Solomon’s work is properly vetted and peer reviewed and again it’s his work as of late that is most questionable and led to his departure from even Fox News which isn’t typically known for high journalistic standards.
Not sure what he’s been “proven correct on” while WAPO has been “proven wrong” while he’s dedicated the last 5 years to defending a con-artist who makes Nixon look like a choir boy and trying to distract from the threat he represents to democracy. Still the original discussion was on what election fraud cases trump has actually won, besides the immaterial case I cited, and thus far you have presented none. One case- that states Wisconsin shouldn’t have allowed drop boxes is all, and it proves no actual voter fraud occurred. Will you tell your buddies to leave lady Ruby and her daughter alone? Will you stop smearing good honest people in order to make an argument for a con-man like Trump or his buddy Giuliani, based on shady evidence from an ex-con like D’Souza? I guess it’s par for the course for Trump and his other pardoned felon friends.
“Solomon cited sources that Hunter worked for Burisma ”
CK07: Hunter admits to being on the board.
“while he’s dedicated the last 5 years to defending a con-artist”
He has done no such thing. Solomon has investigated and reported on many things, including the Ukraine, and Russia hoaxes perpetrated by the left and the media. The media has been proven wrong and Solomon right. Included in his documents are documents and transcripts that implicate Hunter in inappropriate deals.
You add all sorts of things to the mix, like Nixon, solely to deflect because you have nothing of substance to add.
Your flight from reality takes us in the same paragraph as Nixon to “raud cases trump has actually won, besides the immaterial case I cited, and thus far you have presented none.”
OK, here are two.
RNC/Trump v. Miller, No. 06571 EQCV095986 (Iowa District Court, Linn County)
Donald J. Trump for President v. Simon, No. A20-1362 (Minn. Supreme Court)
Following this request, you go into a further flight of fantasy.
As I said before, you lost the argument before it started. Next time bring facts and data to the debate.
“ “[F]raud cases trump has actually won, besides the immaterial case I cited, and thus far you have presented none.”
OK, here are two.
RNC/Trump v. Miller, No. 06571 EQCV095986 (Iowa District Court, Linn County)
Donald J. Trump for President v. Simon, No. A20-1362 (Minn. Supreme Court)”
Somehow it seems you do not understand the meaning of the first word…”FRAUD”.
See DJT for president organization vs Simon:
https://healthyelections-case-tracker.stanford.edu/detail?id=337
“ 10/29/2020: Order/Ruling, The judgement of the Minnesota district court that Secretary of State Simon could extend the deadline to receive absenttee ballots is reversed and remanded. The court found that the Secretary extended the deadline for receipt of ballots without legislative authorization; thus the court orders the reversal of the district court’s denial of preliminary injunction and remand so that the district court can enter an injunction to segregate and preserve all ballots received after Election Day.”
So the Secretary of State extended the deadline for receipt of ballots without authorization. And this was decided October 29, 2020.
Am I missing something or are you just full of shitake?
I’m not going to address your defense of Solomon until you can explain yourself and your fringe sources arguments.
“right lost 54/55 “
CK07: Court cases won and lost is where you started. From there you went to gerrymandering, Nixon, Theranos, and a host of other things unrelated to the initial discussion. You can’t seem to stay on track. Maybe that is because after your verbose shouting you have nothing left to say.
Now we are dealing with Fraud specific cases. Fraud is a very wide term, and a lot of cases are part of the build-up to a fraud case with charges. We have seen a lot of people being prosecuted and charged since the election. I have been listing some points that show lawlessness that can lead to fraud as well. In fact, one of my court cases involved fraud though not directed against an individual.
You lack the ability to stay on target and defend your position if you even know what it is, so I am not unhappy that you don’t want to discuss Solomon. He is one of the best investigative reporters out there, but you don’t even understand what they do and how he documents what he does.
“ S. Meyer says:
“right lost 54/55 “
CK07: Court cases won and lost is where you started”
Your first post followed by the first sentence of my response:
“ S. Meyer says:
Your comment demonstrates how you have been brainwashed.
Trump prevailed in 4 out of 8 cases decided on the merits.
GOP Plaintiff prevailed in 11 out of 13 cases decided on the merits.
Reply
CK07 says:
You’re using that list of 81 cases that has a number that weren’t even related to voter fraud, going back to March of 2020?? And only 3 were filed after the election”
I was talking about voter fraud from the beginning. Trump and his cronies allege voter fraud and have been thrown out of every court on the issue. It’s the same thing you’re trying to prove with 2000 mules etc.
I demanded evidence and you present 2 cases unrelated to fraud one of which was decided a week before the election. Even if it was about fraud by your vague definition it wouldn’t have impacted the election.
Learn to admit when you lost. That would be good advice for Trump and the rest of you as well. I’m not going to stay for the pity party. Goodbye now.
CK,
You did have standing here to even hear your case on the merits. I see why you just hit & run.
Cya CK.
CK,
You Did Not have standing here to even hear your case on the merits. I see why you just hit & run.
Cya CK.
CK07: I made it very clear what I was talking about while you took a shotgun and fired at the wrong wall in the wrong house. You are all over the place. I will quote what I said in your argument against John Say that John never replied to.
” but I will say that fraud is being taken to the courts AS WE SPEAK and cases won, so you are very much out of date.” (caps are for emphasis)
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/07/16/should-the-j6-committee-call-steward-rhodes-or-call-it-a-day/comment-page-2/#comment-2205893
You are all over the place. You probably don’t know where you are when you respond. You are not focused and therefore are unable to make logical arguments. In the process, you confuse yourself. You are brainwashed and have been left to spin dry forever.
“I’m not going to stay for the pity party. “
Good, because much more of your nonsense isn’t desirable for the blog or me.
“John B, you and I have very different definitions of PROVED.”
I am sure we do. Yours is hyper partisan. You see things trhat are not there with the nonsense from the J6 committee, and you are blind to clear and convincing evidence of actual fraud.
” I would venture you and every courtroom in America do as well.”
Nope, You seem to be clueless of american courts.
Just recently in my county a defendant was easily convicted of burglary using evidence that was far weaker than the 2000 mules evidence.
The police here constantly convict people of drug trafficking often using only cellphone data that is far less accurate than the GeoTrakcing data aquired by TTV. In fact TTV used their GeoTracking data to provide Atlanta Police with evidence to identify the killer in an unsolved murder.
” If you disagree I would encourage you to share “proof” that one court room has relied on the evidence presented in 2000 miles to show voter fraud indeed occurred.”
Several people have already been convicted of ballot traficking in AZ based on the TTV/2000 mules evidence.
“Solomons credibility is in question”
Only by idiots.
“I don’t have time nor was it the original topic, more an aside.”
Right – defame someone and then run away and hide without supporting your claim.
When you attack another persons credibility the burden of proof is ALWAYS on you.
“At best I’ll say he was once a respected conservative figure who lost it as he went increasingly fringe, a la Giuliani. At worst on this topic in particular he’s a propagandist who twists and manipulated facts to make a mountain out of a molehill.”
In otherwords the evidence for your defamation is your feeling ?
“Was Obama thrilled Hunter was getting paid by a foreign energy company who clearly wanted to use his image to their advantage, the same way trumps kids and step kids, manafort etc are getting paid by foreign entities at worst? ”
The Manafort issues is similar – though Manafort was much smaller potatoes. There is no even a vague resemblance between Hunter and Trump’s family.
Free markets are about delivering value for value – Every allegation regarding the Trump family involves Real Value – real estate clothes, branding, being provided in return for real value and all done in the normal way business is conducted – not under the table.
The Trump’s are not involved in insider trading. they are not involved in pay for play schemes, they did not sell access to government, They did not sell political influence.
Hunter Biden was selling access to his father the Vice President.
That said the Crime is NOT hunters. It is Joe’s. Joe was the product, he was for sale. Hunter was just the salesman.
Yopu noted Manafort – while there are superficial similarities between manaforte and Hunter. Both were involved in tax evasion.
Both were lobbying for foriegn companies and countries. That is were the similarity ends.
What was Manafort Selling – he was Selling government lobbying being done primarily by Democrat Tony Podesta.
Hunter was selling the Vice President of the united states.
Most of us view lobbying as disreputable, – but it is still legal. It is merely persuasion – salesmanship.
Hunter Was not selling lobbying – he was selling the power of the office of the vice president.
That is an entirely different world.
And the evidence is that he delivered.
Shokin was fired.
“Of course not, if gave the appearance of wrongdoing by the administration even when none existed. I call your credibility into question however when you parrot these allegations without the immediate asterisk/caveat that Shokin was fired because he wasn’t doing enough to prosecute companies like Burisma.”
Obviously you are unfamiliar with the Actual facts. The Documents that the reporter you defamed – Solomon gathered PROVE that Shokin was Actively and relentlessly pursuing Burisma. Otherwise why was Rosemont Senacca Begging the State Department to get Shokin off their backs ?
Shokin was Fired because Vice president Biden demanded that he be fired. Joe actually bragged about that in public.
There was no effort to Fire Shokin inside the Ukraine prior to Vice President Biden’s PUBLIC THREAT.
“It would be one thing if the US was the only entity urging his firing, but it was the entire EU among others that wanted him gone. That would have been the case whether Hunter joined the board or not. There’s no there there.”
Still parroting debunked nonsense. To the tiny extent the EU was involved – they were being driven by the FBI task force that Joe Biden was behind.
Though for the most part the entire anti-shokin effort was being speerheaded by Sorros affiliated groups and the Biden’s.
“The real controversy is that trump tried to pressure Zelensky into saying there was by withholding funds.”
Trump ASKED – not pressured, Zelensky to INVESTIGATE – the conduct of the Biden’s.
You have very weird standards – It is OK for Biden to Publicly threaten Ukraine with terminating billions in non-military aide if they do not fire a prosecutor investigating a company that hired his son was was Actively lobbying the state department to end the investigation of that company.
And Trump ASKS for an invesitgation of that OBVIOUSLY dubious conduct – and That you think is a problem ?
I guess you would jail the police for investigating burglaries ?
I have provided assertions – that are all verifiable by documents and facts.
You can go to Solomon;s web site and download hundreds of documents regarding Hunter Biden’s actions on Behalf of Burisma.
Or demonstrtating that Shokin was actively investigating Burimsa or demonstrating that Shokin was not corrupt.
Solomon acquired all of this LONG before the Hunter Biden Laptops or the Cell phone more recently.
Solomon’s documents corroborate the laptop and the Cell phone. the Cell phone and Laptops corroborate Solomon.
I would note that while the supression of the Biden Ukraine story and evidence is not passed on the evidence that we have “criminal”,
It is absolutely election fraud that flipped the election.
You spray the web with defamation – but to the tiny extent you provide “evidence” – it is not of facts, but that purportedly others agree with you.
According to you The EU also beleived Shokin was corrupt. While to the tiny extent that appears to be true it was driven by Sorros and the Biden’s,
It is NOT fact.
Your evidence is someone else’s oppinion. Solomon demonstrates Hunter’s ACTIVE efforts lobbying the state department to protect Burisma from Shokin. It demonstrates that the Office of the Vice president was notified REPEATEDLY that Hunter was torpedo’ing US government policiy and that he has making the vice president look Corrupt, and that there was a massive conflict of interests.
These are FACTS – and with a little googling, you can find the actual source documents from the US government.
“I will take some issue with your use of fascist. Facism is the combination of nationalism and socialism”
John, once again we get to the problem of definitions. Fascism is a very broad term and evokes different images in different people. Your definition limits the word to your preferred definition, but doesn’t limit anyone else from using the word with its broader meaning.
Pick any city in the US and I will bet you there is a near 100% chance that someone is being prosecuted for drug dealing or burglar based on cell phone data of far less quality than TTV provided.
Visit any prison and you will find several people convicted on worse quality evidence and nothing else.
I am familiar with the standards of US courts – you clearly are not.
But we are not in a court of law.
A court found OJ simpson innocent of killing Nichole.
A court found Travon Martin innocent of killing Travon Martin.
In those cases the evidence was insufficient to convict.
But most people believe that Simpson and Zimmerman were guilty.
And justifiably so.
As the adage that Derschowitz repeats frequently goes – better 10 guilty go free than one innocent man is convicted.
We are still all free to beleive that OJ killed Nichole or that the 2020 Election was rife with fraud, and there is more than enough evidence especially of the latter to reach those conclusions.
“Not sure what information destroying arguments you’re celebrating. It’s all more bs going nowhere to muddy the waters”
If your not sure of something and so vague about it that it is not possible to tell what you are refering to, then how do you know it is “more bs” “going nowhere” to “muddy the waters”
You seem to be very certain of the value of something you are unable to identify.
ial G
I do not know what you meant by “information destroying arguments”.
There is 2 different sets of undercover video from Philadelphia of election workers there destroying records months after the election in violation of state and federal election laws openly discussing that they are doing so, knowingly violating election laws for the purpose of thwarting potential GOP legislature audits.
But I have not posted on that in almost a year.
I did recently post about the absence of chain of custody records for hundreds of thousands of ballots in multiple states – also a violation of election laws pretty much everywhere. But I did not claim those were destroyed. It is more likely they never existed – because those ballots can not be traced back to actual voters, or precincts or any legitimate source – because it is unlikely they came from legitimate sources.
Regardless, all of that is speculation, What is known is that the chain of custody records for hundreds of thousands of ballots in multiple states does not exist. By law ballots chain of custody can not be counted. And yet election officials did count them, and the courts refused to enforce the law regarding them.
You do not seem to grasp that the purpose of election laws is to assure that elections are trusted.
Without trust there is no legimate government. PERIOD.
When you do not follow election laws, you destroy trust, and you encourage Fraud.
You will not have trustworthy elections until the courts enforce election laws – and that REQUIRES rejecting ballots where the law is not followed.
Do you beleive that ALL people will follow any law that is not enforced ?
Until there is a cost to violating them – our election laws are meaningless.
Without adherance to the law – it is much harder to prove fraud, but it is also impossible to prove trust and legitimacy.
“john Say says: “Not sure what information destroying arguments you’re celebrating. It’s all more bs going nowhere to muddy the waters”
If your not sure of something and so vague about it that it is not possible to tell what you are refering to, then how do you know it is “more bs” “going nowhere” to “muddy the waters”
You seem to be very certain of the value of something you are unable to identify.
ial G
I do not know what you meant by “information destroying arguments”.”
Hi John Say,
My post was a response to S.Meyers stating the following:
“CK07 we don’t let leftists dictate the order of discussion, but I will say that fraud is being taken to the courts as we speak and cases won, so you are very much out of date. That is not an unusual thing from the leftist point of view. Leftists conclude when there is not enough information is available to draw conclusions and then repeat that misinformation, as you have done here, even though the new information destroys their arguments.”
See that last phrase. The board is wonky and direct replies will occasionally appear on next pages and at the top of the same page other times. Therefore, I can understand your confusion.
We were discussing the court cases he presented as evidence that my statement on trump’s being thrown out of court 63/64 times or something to that effect was inaccurate. He implied he had information that “destroys [my] arguments,” hence my statement in the reply.
To add the case he linked was on whether drop boxes themselves were legal to set up in the state of Wisconsin. Not whether there was evidence that there was widespread voter fraud to steal the 2020 election.
“You will not have trustworthy elections until the courts enforce election laws – and that REQUIRES rejecting ballots where the law is not followed.”
So if representatives in state A say “hey everyone we have a pandemic and election coming up in 2 months, everyone who doesn’t want to vote in person can safely drop their ballots in these remote kiosks and if it’s filled out correctly we will count it” then after the election it’s revealed that the state law didn’t allow for such remote kiosks i the first place under the state supreme courts strict interpretation of the law, you feel it is legitimate to throw out the ballots of all who voted at those remote kiosks?
That’s essentially what you’re asking for here.
I’ll simplify it so the far right crowd who got swept up by pizzagate and Qanon with claims like ‘JFK Jr is coming back from the dead to be Trumps VP’ can understand:
If you have a class election with 10 people in the class, and the teacher tells the class they can either write their choice on a piece of paper and hand it in, or close their eyes and raise their hands, and 5 do each. Later the principal says you can’t collect papers anonymously, you should just decide the election based on the 5 that raised their hands?
You will have completely misled and disenfranchised the kids you told could vote by paper.
At least if we were redeciding a previous congressional election based on illegal gerrymandering you wouldn’t have to throw out anyones vote to do it, and the country has never saw fit to do that despite the vast majority of improperly gerrymandered states swinging conservative as a result. Here the far right wanted the results of a presidential election changed when former president lost in a landslide in multiple states, and you were willing to use an alternate slate of electors to do so. Worse yet Trump was happy to guide a mob to the capital to stop the peaceful transfer of power, and ignored pleas for help from his own party members for hours in response.
Nearly 70 cases later with no substantive wins and all you have to show for it is ‘Wisconsin shouldn’t have allowed drop boxes in the first place’ when Wisconsin wouldn’t have even begun to decide the election even if you did the unthinkable and threw out all those ballots. Gore had a much better argument in 2000 and even he dropped it quickly for the good of the country when the Conservative Supreme Court said no recount…the lack of self awareness from the far right is astonishing.
CK07: I made it very clear what I was talking about while you took a shotgun and fired at the wrong wall in the wrong house. You are all over the place. I will quote what I said in your argument against John Say that John never replied to.
” but I will say that fraud is being taken to the courts AS WE SPEAK and cases won, so you are very much out of date.” (caps are for emphasis)
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/07/16/should-the-j6-committee-call-steward-rhodes-or-call-it-a-day/comment-page-2/#comment-2205893
You are all over the place. You probably don’t know where you are when you respond. You are not focused and therefore are unable to make logical arguments. In the process, you confuse yourself. You are brainwashed and have been left to spin dry forever.
“I’m not going to stay for the pity party. “
Good, because much more of your nonsense isn’t desirable for the blog or me.
“but I will say that fraud is being taken to the courts AS WE SPEAK and cases won, so you are very much out of date.“
Then when asked to present said cases he presents 2 cases which are neither fraud cases nor being taken to court “as we speak”. One was decided a week before the election. Is that a Trump University degree on your wall?
CK07: You are not aware of what is happening around you. Your first inclination was to discuss a talking point of the many court cases Trump supposedly lost.
You were wrong, and I showed you the falsehood of your logic providing the wins and losses where Trump/GOP wins and losses were multiples of those on the other side. I even provided two cases and could provide a lot more, but you lack the knowledge and logic you think you have.
Next, you worked your way into limiting the argument to fraud which is a very broad term. I told you that one of the two cases I mentioned, was aligned with fraud. You completely disregarded what you asked for and moved on to something else, which was also discussed. Fraud cases have continuously come before the courts in various states, and some people have been convicted of fraudulent behavior. You don’t know these things because you live in your leftist world where you are told what to think, say and believe.
After meeting what intelligent people would consider the direct answers to your demands, you then turn to your typical insults.
“Is that a Trump University degree on your wall?”
Spiritually it is. I understand a lot about Trump and how he thinks. I adopted some of his ways of managing things long ago, and I can say that made me very successful in more than one field. Trump has gut feelings, but those feelings are based on careful internal examination of how things have played out before. Gut feelings count (Read the book, Blink). You don’t have this advantage, so you attach yourself to left-wing hit pieces and never bother to think again. That is not a desirable thing, as it causes you to be easily controlled by the hard left.
You claim some random number – something like 64 – but never provide actual cases – just a claim that there were so many.
I have not checked every one – but there is a source that Claims Trump or other election intergrity groups has won 21/22 since Jan 6.
Like you I can cite lots of cases without actually citing cases.
SM cited Wisconsin – there are several cases there. But the big one is the dropboxes case – because th WI SCOTUS did not mince words
They are illegal, they WERE illegal.
I beleive Texas has several hundred convictions for voter fraud. Though TX was not in play in 2020.
There are a handful of convictions and plea deals in AZ.
There are far fewer cases than their should be as The American Bar association is actively threatening lawyers with disbarrment for participaing in election challenges.
It is politically and legally dangerous for most police and attorney’s – even private attorneys to raise claims.
But progress is still being made.
And frankly left wing nut institutions are slowly burning themselves to the ground.
Read the intercept article.
https://theintercept.com/2022/06/13/progressive-organizing-infighting-callout-culture/
I would note that this is uncorrectable. It is an inherent flaw in progressivism, that it will self destruct.
I went to college at Franklin & Marshal, Georgia Tech and Graduated from Renselear Politechnical institute.
I have a degree in architecture and a minor in computer science.
As for Trump U – those who went there – sought the secret sauce to Trump’s success.
Trump actually delivered. The very people you attack that he used as teachers are EXACTLY what people need if they wish to succeed on their own.
Every bookstore contains a section on get rich schemes. They pretty much all work – if you are motivated and work hard enough.
I know far less intelligent people who have done better than I – by working their asses off.
I know people with walls full of degrees who are failures – because they are unmotivated.
The left is producing a huge cohort of anxious and depressed young adults that will wreak havoc on the country and our standard of living.
The fact that Biden is a failed president – is not an accident. The root cause is what the left purport to be his successes.
Your ideology does not work.
It makes people poorer and less well off.
The only question is how much will everyone have to suffer before the world teaches you that.
“if your not sure of something and so vague about it that it is not possible to tell what you are refering to, then how do you know it is “more bs” “going nowhere” to “muddy the waters””
That is correct – your replies are vague BS that it is impossibel to fact check – because they are almost completely fact free.
Some unamed person or institution said something – we do not know what, but that supports your argument.
Every argument I have made can be checked out.
Go to the prisons – or check criminal convictions of drug dealers or Burglars using solely Cell phone tracking.
There are thousands. The courts really convict people of crimes based on evidence of lessor quality than 2000 mules.
But most election litigation is civil and th standard of proof is even lower.
“See that last phrase. ”
I did. Meyer’s remark is accurate. You are ill informed, that is obvious,
and you poorly evaluate what you do know.
“Therefore, I can understand your confusion.”
My confusion is because your remarks are vague ambiguous so much so they are unverifiable.
“He implied he had information that “destroys [my] arguments,”
He did not imply it SM said that outright
And he was correct.
You are poorly informed on Election fraud – or most anything else you post on.
“To add the case he linked was on whether drop boxes themselves were legal to set up in the state of Wisconsin. Not whether there was evidence that there was widespread voter fraud to steal the 2020 election.”
The Drop boxes in Wisconsin were OBVIOUSLY illegal. They are in most other states too. Mailin voting is illegal and unconstitutional in 38 states.
Including WI, MI, GA, AZ, and PA. Any form of balloting where the actual ballot is EVER outside the direct supervision of election officials is NOT a secret ballot which 38 states constitutions require. There is no possible circumstance in any of those 38 states where a ballot dropbox could possibly be legal.
“So if representatives in state A say “hey everyone we have a pandemic and election coming up in 2 months, everyone who doesn’t want to vote in person can safely drop their ballots in these remote kiosks and if it’s filled out correctly we will count it” then after the election it’s revealed that the state law didn’t allow for such remote kiosks i the first place under the state supreme courts strict interpretation of the law, you feel it is legitimate to throw out the ballots of all who voted at those remote kiosks?”
Absolutely. Though that is NOT what happened.
You follow the law and constitution PERIOD. If you do not like the law or constitution you change it.
BTW Covid started in 2019 – a year before the election. It arrived in he US in Early January – almost a year before the election.
The “shutdowns” occured in March 9 months before the election.
Every state int eh country has a legislature and they were engaged in legislting for nearly all of 2020.
If those like YOU felt some temporary change was needed – you could have actually passed new laws.
You did not – that is called LAWLESSNESS.
Next – there was no “after the election revealed”. This lawlessness was concocted – almost entirely by democrats significantly before the election. It was challenged in the courts, there were severl major victories – but these were stayed by appeals courts.
This lawlessness was given the impramatur of the courts BEFORE the election – most openly hoping that nothing bad would result, and when it was obvious the results were a lawless mess – the courts responded by killing election challenges on standing or mootness or other grounds that did not require looking the problems they created in the face.
Regrdless, if you want the “rule of law” – you must follow the actual law, and you must enforce it – even if that means tossing millions of possibly legitimate ballots because there are likely thousands o fraudulent ones in them.
You can not ignore the laws that help thwart Fraud without invalidating legitimate votes.
70M people voted for Trump – the vast majority of those voted in person following laws that have been in place for years.
Anyone – whether they voted for Biden or Trump whose vote was not cast according to actual election laws passed by legislatures should not hve their votes counted.
That is what the rule of law requires.
But the RIGHT choice was to follow the law or to change the law through the legitimate existing processes for doing so.
Not to make up knew things on the fly.
But that is what those of you on the left do all the time.
I oppose our immigration laws. I favor much greater immigration. I will support changing the law – efforts during the Obama and Trump administration nearly bore fruit. But ultimately failed.
That said until we change the law we follow the law as it is.
I would impeach biden and all appointed officials involved in immigration in a heartbeat for failure to enforce immigration law.
Democrats have passed many laws, and are attempting to pass others.
Should the next republican be free to ignore those for 4 years – as Biden is doing ?
Absolutely not.
If you want people to Trust government – government must be trustworthy – they FIRST step is following the laws we have – not the ones you wish we had.
“That’s essentially what you’re asking for here.”
It is not what I am asking it is what the rule of law requires.
If you do not like the law or constitution – CHANGE IT – through the normal process for doing so.
“I’ll simplify it so the far right crowd who got swept up by pizzagate and Qanon with claims like ‘JFK Jr is coming back from the dead to be Trumps VP’ can understand:”
So your definition of “far right” is what two people ?
I have little interest in Qanon. Though I would note that more Qanon BS turned out correct than stuff reported on CNN.
The Collusion Delussion was a hoax. Epstein was a pedophile. And there were people throughout the federal government traficking in child porn who got a slap on the wrist. If you doubt that – there is an IG report on it.
“If you have a class election with 10 people in the class, and the teacher tells the class they can either write their choice on a piece of paper and hand it in, or close their eyes and raise their hands, and 5 do each. Later the principal says you can’t collect papers anonymously, you should just decide the election based on the 5 that raised their hands?
You will have completely misled and disenfranchised the kids you told could vote by paper.”
Your analogy is not even close.
Better – if the school has rules that require all class elections to be conducted by secret ballot, and the teacher tells the class to ignore that rule and voter for class pressident by raising their hands
Do you invalidate that election – absolutely, it was lawless.
If you do not like the law – change it.
“At least if we were redeciding a previous congressional election based on illegal gerrymandering you wouldn’t have to throw out anyones vote to do it”
There is really no such thing as illegal gerrymandering.
Further congressional districts are constructed using a process specified by the constitution and state law.
The districts so constructed are presumptively legal. Before the election there is some ability to challenge those.
That is the “rule of law”.
I think that all redistricting challenges should fail – there is just no such thing as a correct way to create districts.
And accountablity is to voters – not courts.
But whether the courts agree with me or not – Districts are determined by a valid legal process prior to the election.
We do not have governors or courts willy nilly saying – I am going to do what I please regarding congressional districts.
And congressional districts are far less signifcant than actual election fraud.
You are also very ill informed regarding “gerrymandering” – which is weird because the math is pretty simple.
The type of gerrymandering that can give one party a significant advantage is incredibly dangerous.
We are about to have an election – if as an example Blue states have gerrymandered their states to give them 2/3 of seats in the typical D+4 election,
In Novemember 2022 – democrats in that state will be pretty much wiped out. They would lose nearly every seat.
Partisan gerrymandering is massively impacted by small changes in the generic ballot – it is incredibly dangerous for any political party.
Natrionwide experts estimate that there is atmost a 3 seat advantage to Republicans in the house – and that is primarily because there are numerically more red states than blue ones.
I honestly do not care what you wish to try to do regarding Gerrymandering – it is an ugly political process, but with little real benefit and significant dangers.
If you want to change the laws – go ahead. I think you are stupid to do so and you are wrong.
But I an not worried that you will successfully game the system that way for long – you can not. The more you game the system the bigger the reverse wave will be when you fail.
So do as you please – just do so through the rule of law.
an alternate slate of electors to do so. Worse yet Trump was happy to guide a mob to the capital to stop the peaceful transfer of power, and ignored pleas for help from his own party members for hours in response.
Nearly 70 cases later with no substantive wins and all you have to show for it is ‘Wisconsin shouldn’t have allowed drop boxes in the first place’ when Wisconsin wouldn’t have even begun to decide the election even if you did the unthinkable and threw out all those ballots. Gore had a much better argument in 2000 and even he dropped it quickly for the good of the country when the Conservative Supreme Court said no recount…the lack of self awareness from the far right is astonishing.
“Here the far right wanted the results of a presidential election changed when former president lost in a landslide in multiple states,”
Trump lost by 45,000 votes in 3 states – that is HALF what Hillary lost be in 2016. If as you claim Biden had a landslide in 2020 – Trump did in 2016.
Regardless in the real world vicroies by a few thousand votes in 6 states are not landslides.
Further your statement is only correct if the “far right” is about 52% of the country.
There has not been a time since the 2020 electiont hat a plurality of americans did not beleive the election was likely the consequence of cheating.
“and you were willing to use an alternate slate of electors to do so.”
Perfectly constitutional, and has happened before.
“Worse yet Trump was happy to guide a mob to the capital to stop the peaceful transfer of power, and ignored pleas for help from his own party members for hours in response.”
All spin.
As noted before a plurality of americans beleive the election was tainted by fraud.
That should be the end of all of this. You can not get a legitimate government when even 15% of people beleive the election was the result of fraud much less a plurality.
If you wanted a peaceful transfer of Power you needed to do as Turley begged and start REAL investigations immediately after the eleciton – open and transparent. It is highly likely trump would have lost – because Gulliani and Powell while right about election fraud had the WRONG theories of how that fraud took place.
There were problems with DVS voting equipment that we need to address and key people at DVS said incredibly stupid things which should have cost them their jobs and done serious damage to DVS as a company – DVS damaged its own reputation.
But the FACTS are that despite lots of serious problems with DVS equipment – DVS did not conspire to throw the election to Biden and the DVS equipment counted the votes to a reasonable degree of accuracy and the errors were NOT partisan.
Gulliani correctly understood there was a serious problem with voter registration lists – we should eliminate Voter registration and go to Voter ID completely – if you have legitimate ID you can vote in person, and you can not vote any other way. But the parties will not like that.
Regardless, Guilliani fixated on dead people voting and other problems that though real were never going to amount to enough votes.
The two HUGE forms of fraud – that near certain largely overlap, is ballot harvesting and casting forged votes for infrequent voters from registration lists. The first is proven at this time, the second has very strong evidence.
Regardless, neither were going to be detected before Jan. 6. An immediate thorough audit likely would have flipped GA and probably AZ, and would have narrowed the election elsewhere, but would have left Biden as president – based on what was knowable by Jan 6.
But you did not do that. The great danger was the possible exposure of things like AZ were 17K people cast 48K votes. At some point someone was likely to ask – is that really fraud by individuals – or is that the tip of the iceberg masking something larger.
If some third part cast ballots for 17K people who also chose to vote in 2020, How many people did they cast ballots for who did NOT vote in 2020 ?
That is another type of auditing that must be done routinely – randomly select 5000 ballots from people who have not voted in 3 cycles and contact them and verify they actually voted.
“Nearly 70 cases later with no substantive wins and all you have to show for it is ‘Wisconsin shouldn’t have allowed drop boxes in the first place’ when Wisconsin wouldn’t have even begun to decide the election even if you did the unthinkable and threw out all those ballots. ”
Wisconsin is far from the only win. It is just the one getting some press.
“Gore had a much better argument in 2000 and even he dropped it quickly for the good of the country when the Conservative Supreme Court said no recount…the lack of self awareness from the far right is astonishing.”
Gore did not make an election fraud argument. Nor did he “bow out gracefully” the SCOTUS decision ended it.
I think there were some problems with the Scotus decision – there were 4 votes for a better decision.
Scotus should have kicked the issue back to the FL legislature an said – FL must certify its election ON TIME, other than that the Legislature gets to decide how to handle this.
As I recall the FL legislature had already authorized a slate of electors for Bush in the event the recount was not complete in time.
I would note that my interest in election integrity stems from the 2000 election.
I realized that:
The election was so close the result was meaningless – FL was so far inside the margin of error for counting that yopu could have counted it 10 times and gotten different winners each time.
What was evident to me – is that we were going to have ever more close elections. And that we needed to do better.
The resulting HAV act was a DISASTER. It made things worse not better – we had decades of first democrats and later republicans attacking the black box voting terminals – deservedly.
Regardless I relized as a result of Gore V Bush that Fraud was going to be ever more likely in the future – The incentive to fraud is greatest when the amount of fraud needed is smallest.
I have no doubt that in 2000 there was alteast 1000 fraudulent votes on each side in FL.
Establishing voting integrity is NOT actually that hard. France has a fairly simple process – paper ballots, in person voting with ID, and a hand count completed in a few hours that is fully publicly supervised.
With absentee voting, mailin voting, early voting, an assortment of machines, large and small scale election operations the US unecescarily complcates voting.
There were 150M votes in 2020. If these are divided into precints of 5000 That means you need 30000 precints accross the US of 5000 votes approx each. You need maybe 3 election officials at each.
Vote on paper ballots at your assigned precinct. Run the election over a single 24hr period using a GMT start and stop time – so that polls are open at exactly the same time in all states. Start counting the moment the polls close – all counting is done by hand and all counting is done in public with the media and anyone else watching. An all counting must finish in 6hrs and all precints must report their counts exactly 6 hours after polls close.
All counts are reported a the precinct level publicly.
That is all you need. simple, little oportunity for fraud. not all that many election workers. No large opeortunities for fraud.
This does not make fraud impossible but it makes it very hard.
This is a more error prone system – but the errors will be random.
This is not the only way to have a trustworthy election – but what we have now – even if the law was followed does not pass the smell test.
The US has not had honest elections in my lifetime.
At best we have less problems than the 19th century. Though frankly we are NOT much better than Russia at elections.
I would note my “plan” has several features – KISS – keep it simple stupid.
Transparency – do most everything in public.
Eliminate all the vehicles for fraud.
Ballots never leave precints. All counting is done SMALL scale, there are no machines that we have to trust.
There are hard deadlines accross the country at exactly the same time for everything.
Because precinct vote counts are made public – there is no need to secure the count reporting – the media will have worked out the winner before the state has anyway. In fact allowing the press to observe the count means that the press will inevitably provide their own unofficial real time counts BEFORE the official count.
The more complex you make things – the more complex the rules to prevent fraud must be by orders of magnitude.
When I think of Watergate, I think of what was the bigger crime. (Without a doubt, Nixon was wrong despite being one of the smartest Presidents in international affairs). I think how could the second in command of the FBI be spying on the President? In my estimation, the FBI has always been crooked, and today they present the danger of fascism. Nixon resigned, which shows that inwardly he believed in the rule of law.
Today we have a fascist oligarchy that pays little attention to the Constitution. Of course, Kamala hides while the President hides in plain sight, a remarkable illusion, better than Copperfield, but the fact is, most intelligent people know he is a puppet President.
Paranoia is good. It prepares one for potential disaster. Everyone in my family has a bit of paranoia. I do not see communists behind every tree, but I do see self-serving fascists. As you note, the 2020 election is adding to the substantial proof of a lawless election. Thank you for the information on page 136. You have more stamina than I.
“However, this action would not, on its own, have any other legal consequence under state or federal law. It would not, for example, change who the current President is”
Would it have if these actions were performed before the Jan 6 vote took place? Your ending sentiments are mine as well.
I’d like to add something I may or may not have said to you at another time. My wife is not American-born. She came from behind the iron curtain and her history is book worthy. She has been arrested multiple times, jailed, carried secret documents across the border that was mined, and was captured and searched, but the microfilm was not found. She would have been jailed for whatever, but the jails were filled so they added another bad behavior remark on her internal passport, perhaps jailing her at a future date.
She was not admitted into this country for almost a year. I won’t go into more details about her traumatic history but deal with the present.
She came to this country barely able to speak English. Her sole aid was a teacher who provided her with flashcards (her native tongue is not Latin based) and incessantly teased her, as did many in her class. She learned and thrived in America without money or help except for decent parents that traveled an alternate route and met at the mined border. She was with an MI6 agent requiring cover and the assistance of another because of local events.
She has had two completely different careers, but I wanted to talk about the first. She was one of the first trained system design engineers in the country. After looking for a job, she came home happy and said she was immediately hired by a very large company that continues to be prominent today.
I am telling you this because of some of the things you said about Americans, which are completely understandable.
She was waiting for formal approval from the company but it never came. She was denied the job because of anti-Semitism (there was no other reason, and the company was known not to hire Jews.) They finally came up with an excuse. She failed the standard test given to all employees, from janitors to executives.
No matter. She found another job that was mostly tech and was made an executive from the start. They took her out to dinner to tell her that on the exam given only to engineers and technical people she scored the highest they had ever seen.
That gets to my point. I am not one to walk away from a fight. Anti-Semitism just like racism is something that should never exist, but it does. Suing and fighting are the first things that came to mind.
What did my wife, the immigrant, feel? She was never safe in her life. Her parents made it out of the concentration camps, Auschwitz being one of them. She was alive and free. What could she say? She was free to find another job which she did. Those people that followed the anti-Semitic unwritten rules didn’t want to kill her or even stop her from thriving. Her answer was she loved those people, the teacher that ridiculed her, those other students that teased her for her foreign tongue, and the people denying hearth job.
No one killed her or stopped her from living and thriving. Love was the only answer. She loved America and all Americans despite their flaws, and when we would return from abroad after one of our frequent trips, she would kiss the ground.
The FBI has always been out of control and dangerous. Though Hoover probably had by far the most power, and was the least actually dangerous.
His goal was to protect the FBI – not to serve a political agenda.
Nixon was brilliant on foreign matters and a complete idiot on everything else. He was a dolt economically and one of the most progressive US presidents. The only domestic matter he was conservative on was policing.
I will take some issue with your use of fascist. Facism is the combination of nationalism and socialism
China under Xi is becoming fascist. There is no consequential fascism in the US. I am less update on the myriads of European splinter parties.
Further I do not much care about the distinction between socialism and statism.
All forms of more powerful government fail in much the same way. Either you end up with an inefficient police state, or you end up with lawlessness and chaos.
I have argued here that laws must be enforced – very little discretion is permissible without losing the rule of law.
Bigger govvernment means more laws. That either means more enforcement – police state, or more discretion – lawlessness.
Anyway I do not care what name you give big government – it does not work.
We all detest racism and antisemitism.
But outside of actual criminal acts, it is best left out of the domain of the state.
Your wife sounds like a very competent person – and an asset to any company she works with.
IF some company chose not to hire here – that was a self punishing act.
As I rule I beleive that people should be left free to screw themselves.
Why would anyone want to work for a place that would express prejudice over immutable characteristics.
As an employer – I try to focus on the REAL value a person brings to the job (and the REAL negatives)
Not my own tastes, preferences, …. As Goldwater said – “I do not care if they are straight, only if they shoot straight”
If your choices cause harm to my business – you are gone – even if I do not personally have a problem with those choices.
Beyond that I want the best and cheapest person for the job.
If my competitors choose not to hire someone who is black, jewish, gay, …. and highly competent – that is My gain.
This goes beyond immutable characteristics.
I will hire people who are highly competent – and highly annoying – if that trait does not reduce the value of competence too much.
There is no foible I will not try to accomodate – for a valuable person.
Conversely you can be completely inoffensive – if you are not valuable – look elsewhere – try the guy who hates jews.
I learned a long time ago – and over and over. No matter how someone else F’s up your life, only YOU can fix it.
This is amazing and proves the rule of law doesn’t exist where Democrats are concerned.
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Colbert crew’s behavior in Capitol complex caused Democrat staffer to call for emergency help
Stephen Colbert’s comedy crew was warned “several times” it could not trespass on Capitol grounds, and its behavior in a congressional office building during an unauthorized nighttime visit was so boisterous it caused a Democratic congressman’s staff to fear for his safety and call for emergency help, police say.
“It is unfortunate that despite all of the evidence the Department presented, including that the group or its leader had been told several times that they could not be in the buildings without an escort, that the U.S. Attorney’s office declined to prosecute any members of the group for Unlawful Entry,” Capitol Police Chief Thomas Manger wrote Republican Reps. Rodney Davis of Illinois and Jim Jordan of Ohio in a letter dated Tuesday.
The chief also revealed that two of the nine staffers when arrested refused to cooperate
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/colbert-crews-behavior-capitol-complex-caused-democrat-staffer-call-emergency?utm_source=breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
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