J6 Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney has been criticized by critics for participating in a one-sided series of hearings devoid of alternative or dissenting views. Some have called it a “show trial” with members reading off teleprompters in tightly scripted and controlled hearings. As if to fulfill that show trial portrayal, Cheney ended the hearing this week by calling for more officials to come forward and noting that Trump family members and former officials have now come forward with their own public “confessions.”
As with past hearings, the summation included a direct call by Cheney for voters to oppose Donald Trump in the coming election: “Can a President who is willing to make the choices Donald Trump made during the violence of January 6 ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again?” It is the type of pitch that is as unnecessary as it is counterproductive. Many voters tuned out the hearings weeks ago due to the absence of any balance in the presentation of evidence. To add direct political pitches only reduces the audience further. The result is that it is left telling largely Democratically aligned voters not to vote for Trump.
The alternative was to secure a larger audience by allowing more balance. It would not have altered the power of these accounts. It would have simply added greater credibility to the proceedings. It could have changed minds rather than just reaffirm preexisting views. Instead, once again, the Committee simply edited out conflicting evidence. For example, the Committee again edited out the line of Trump where he said “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”
That line does not exonerate the former president. However, it is illustrative of the Committee’s refusal to hold these hearings for investigative rather than persuasive purposes.
What was particularly bizarre was Cheney’s effort to dismiss the need for any opposing views in the hearings. In one of the most counterintuitive and forced claims, Cheney said that such balance would not have made a difference:
“And for those of you who seem to think the evidence would be different if Republican Leader McCarthy had not withdrawn his nominees from this committee, let me ask you this. Do you really think Bill Barr is such a delicate flower that he would wilt under cross-examination? Pat Cipollone, Eric Herschmann, Jeff Rosen, Richard Donoghue?”
No one is suggesting that Barr would have changed his testimony. Rather, the argument is that there were questions not being asked for the witnesses and evidence not being presented. For example, when the two former members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers testified, members carefully avoided a host of countervailing questions, including any direct contacts with Trump or the White House.
However, it was the true confessions moment that stood out in the closing summation. Cheney said that more people will be called to come forward. She then added:
“The case against Donald Trump in these hearings is not made by witnesses who were his political enemies. It is instead a series of confessions by Donald Trump’s own appointees, his own friends, his own campaign officials, people who worked for him for years, and his own family. They have come forward. And they have told the American people the truth.”
I seriously doubt that figures like former Attorney General Bill Barr or other Trump officials believed that they were coming forward with public confessions. They spoke about courageous and principled positions that put them at odds with the former president.
What was so striking about the Cheney’s characterization of such testimony as “confessions” is that it seemed to address a glaring disconnect for many Democratic critics. The hearing has shown that virtually all of the Trump officials in the White House took the same position against the effort to reject the certification of the election and called for immediate responses to the riot. Many of these figures, like Barr, had been unfairly attacked for years as Trump stooges or enemies of democracy.
The fact is that our system worked. The courts (including Trump appointed judges) rejected these challenges. Executive officials held firm in refusing to allow the Justice Department or other agencies from being used to further attacks on the election without evidence of widespread voting fraud. There was no flinching or hesitation for figures like Barr or Vice President Michael Pence and they have always been public about their positions. There were no confessions in these hearing beyond a couple witnesses like the members of the extremist groups.
The fact is that there was little new offered in the last two hearings. There continued to be a conspicuous absence of the long promised new evidence of criminal conduct by Trump. The two witnesses yesterday were important new voices who offered authentic and heartfelt accounts of their decisions to resign on January 6th.
The biggest news was the announcement of additional hearings. While the Democrats brought in a former ABC producer to frame the hearings, it could well have been George Lucas behind the camera. Whenever a hearing end with what sounds like a summation, the chair comes forward with a sequel line that “there is another.”
I welcome additional hearings. I believe that these accounts are important for the public to hear what occurred on that horrific day. However, the hearings at points had a feel of a political infomercial due to the heavy handed pitch. While both sides have blamed each other for the absence of any Republican-appointed members, that is not a license for the Committee to then dispense with any need to offer the public a full and fair account of the underlying evidence and claims. Even Democrats have admitted that the hearings do not appear to be changing many minds of conservative or Republican voters. The reason may be that many tuned out weeks ago when they saw the hearings as presenting a single narrative rather than pursue a comprehensive record on what occurred from a variety of perspectives.
Declaring that Trump family members and former officials have now “confessed” only played into the criticism of these hearings. By yielding to the temptation to exclude any opposing voices or views, the Committee seems intent on fulfilling the stereotype of the hearings as a show trial. It could be so much more but that requires politicians to do something that they are almost genetically resistant to: yielding time to opponents. It is the difference between creating a case for the next election as opposed to creating a record for history.
But to portray January 6th as an insurrection and Trump as a treasonous villain is overblown rhetoric. That doesn’t turn into banning him from running for office. The Supreme Court has put great value on the right of the people to chose who they want to vote for. That’s how the term limits law failed years ago.
This is from Professor Emeritus of Constitutional Law Ann Althouse.
Her perspective unremarkable, boring really. It is that of a legal mind that filters out everything, but the law/Constitution, and facts.
Its in comments down at about 6pm
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2022/07/how-much-political-damage-did-trump.html#more
This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever written. My understanding is based on what came out today from the editorial boards of both the NY Post and WSJ. There was no “matter of interpretation” about how they felt, and based on the evidence, I had to agree with them.
On January 6th, Trump was informed that violence was breaking out on Capitol Hill, and his aides and allies were imploring him to act. Instead, he retired to his dining room and for three hours and seven minutes did nothing. By the time he emerged and finally began to act, Ashley Babbitt was already dead.
I voted for Trump in 2020, but I won’t in 2024.
That being said, I won’t be voting for Democrats either. Joe Biden is actually guilty of the kinds of corruption the Democrats and media accused Trump of, and the Democrats during 2020 shamelessly encouraged political violence and buried the allegations against Joe Biden.
This country still needs an adult in the room somewhere in Washington.
Amen
“This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever written.”
Trump had approved the deployment of some 20,000 NG troops. Bowser and Pelosi refused to approve their deployment. In addition, Congress oversees the Capitol Hill Police.
So Trump planned ahead. Others stuck their heads in the sand.
Why are you blaming Trump for the failures of others?
How did Pence accomplish what Trump would not?
Trump waited for over 3 hours before telling the rioters to stop and go home, despite requests from members of Congress and members in his WH Admin. That alone is reason to never reelect him.
“How did Pence accomplish what Trump would not?”
I think you mean Mayor Bowser — who, a day late and a dollar short, finally requested help from the DC National Guard.
If Trump had accomplished what he wanted — the DC NG deployed *before* that debacle — they’re probably would not have been a Jan. 6.
When all you focus on is the last episode of a soap opera, you can conclude anything or nothing.
If Trump had refrained from sending his supporters to the Capitol on a march that lacked the required march permit and had not lied about going with them, there might not have been a Jan. 6 Capitol riot either.
If Trump hadn’t told people to show up for a “wild” Jan. 6 rally, there probably wouldn’t have a Jan. 6 Capitol riot either.
There are many things people might have done differently, and Bowser is not the one who was most responsible for what went wrong. Trump is.
According to this timeline, Bowser asked for additional forces at 1:34pm, but they clearly weren’t sent then:
https://www.justsecurity.org/76117/the-official-and-unofficial-timeline-of-defense-department-actions-on-january-6/
What timeline are *you* drawing on?
You lie continuously so why should anyone believe what you say here. It is funny how you don’t talk about the Newsweek article and the military personal brought in by Rosen with a shoot-to-kill authorization. It is funny how you don’t talk about the refusal to accept troops by Pelosi and Bowser. It is funny that the Capitol Police acted contrary to normal ways of disbursing a crowd and killed 4 people (muredered two of them) and used tactics that incited the crowd.It’s funny that you believe if suddenly troops are requested at 1:34 they would be there at 1:35.
You seem to be an awful source for information.
Oh look, it’s Meyer the Obsessed Troll Liar, once again acting out his obsession.
In other words you have no response to:
You lie continuously so why should anyone believe what you say here. It is funny how you don’t talk about the Newsweek article and the military personal brought in by Rosen with a shoot-to-kill authorization. It is funny how you don’t talk about the refusal to accept troops by Pelosi and Bowser. It is funny that the Capitol Police acted contrary to normal ways of disbursing a crowd and killed 4 people (muredered two of them) and used tactics that incited the crowd.It’s funny that you believe if suddenly troops are requested at 1:34 they would be there at 1:35.
During the phone call, U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund pleaded with senior Army leaders for help. According to the testimony of at least three people on the call, Army leaders did not respond to those pleas with immediate support or affirmation.
The article says nothing about Bowser calling the President.
Its called the chain of command.
And you totally ignored that Trump waited for over 3 hours before telling the rioters to stop and go home, despite requests from members of Congress and members in his WH Admin. That alone is reason to never reelect him.
I discussed that 3 hour window of time to another. You are reading tea leaves. The vast majority were peaceful.
Those that were rioting, the suspicious people and the few violent Capitol Police and military who were engaged at the time were like wasps reacting after having their nest dislodged. Try talking to an angry wasp.
Anon, Q Anon?
You forgot that Pelosi also nixed the guard. Since the cell phone service was so over crowded, how was Mr. T supposed to get through.
J6 IS the fault of Plastic Pelosi & Bow Wowser & who knows who else. Oh the feds. THEY & whoever else said “NO!” to the guard are ALL at fault. Not to mention cops moving barricades & opening doors for the small % of the crowd fed & antifa agitators got to go along with the violent parts.
The guard was refused because this was a set up to trap some Trump people.
That is also why so much video is being sat on by the dimms.
SamFox
I said nothing about QAnon.
Trump easily could have tweeted a message earlier to tell people to go home, just like he tweeted mid-afternoon condemning Pence, and just like he finally sent a tweet telling people to go home later. Nothing interfered with people reading his tweets.
As for your childish name-calling, grow up.
Its your post. Tell me exactly why the Capital Police Cheif, is talking to some anonymous DoD official? The Military is under the control of the President.
The most rational conclusion to reach, Pelosi refused to ask the President for aide. The same reason Pence….total outside the chain of command, called the DOD. Pelosi refused to do her job.
The committee spends lots time investigating constitutionally protected actions, protesting govt actions, and ignoring govt agents violating the constitution by attempting to involve the military.
“The most rational conclusion to reach, Pelosi refused to ask the President for aide. “
Iowan, you make an obvious and important point. J6 ultimate authority was Nancy Pelosi who refused the national guard authorized by Trump.
She is in charge. Where is her call to Trump for help to quiet things down? There is none. She is silent. She is the leader. Pelosi failed. She needs to testify at J6.
Diogenes,
As I have stated before, I do not want Trump to run mainly because I think it would be bad for the country overall. The insanity from the left, MSM during the Trump admin would be a picnic compared to the level of crazy they would devolve into if he won in 2024.
Think, the 2020 Summer of Love, but on Hunter Biden meth.
However, if it is down to Trump or Biden/Harris/Clinton (some are saying she is considering running again), I would HAVE to vote for Trump.
The Dems embracing the insanity of wokness is disturbing.
Based off the polls, Asian and Hispanic voting blocks agree.
Some of my Jewish friends agree.
Diogenes, you are one of the bloggers I read and carefully listen to because I believe you have a lot to offer. In this case, I disagree. I’ll make my case and see if you have anything to add or subtract.
Trump authorized 20,000 troops to prevent violence. Extra troops could have maintained better lines of control further away from the Capitol Building, even while permitting people to peacefully enter the Capital Building.
That was not permitted by the final authorities, Pelosi and perhaps Bowser. It has been reported by Newsweek that the Justice Department called in “‘national’ forces”,(whatever that means) with shoot-to-kill authority. Military members were part of the group.
It is clear from the many films now available that the Capitol Police acted contrary to their training and proper crowd control. Instead of disbursing the crowd, they created anger much like the anger seen if you took a stick and hammered it on a wasp nest.
Additionally, we know other actors were riling up the crowd, and they were anti-Trump. Some of the damage was done by these folk and is on video. We note that these provocateurs (suspicious people that did not support Trump and were on the left) did damage, as did some errant Trump supporters. We know that almost all of the people in the vicinity were peaceful, and we can see mostly peaceful people entering the Capitol Building. We see violence and destruction from all sides, not just one.
I think what you are saying is that Trump should have acted to quiet the crowds down, but in the process, you might be mind-reading what Trump was thinking. Adding to that problem is we have had a one-sided release of information all intended to damage Trump.
We all recognize that Trump has significant faults, but fair-minded people have seen Trump act where some of his own people, along with the media and Democrats, said he would cause a war or cause grave damage. In most of these high-stake political actions, Trump was right, and everyone else was wrong. What makes anyone think that in this situtation, Trump didn’t consider all the alternatives and picked the right one? We also must remember that Trump required feedback, and the type of feedback was uncertain. After all, his military advisors, intelligence, and many others at the White House fought against many things he did that turned out correct.
What makes any of us think those advisors, whether from the White House, military, Democrats, or anyone else, had the correct answer and he had the wrong one? Experience has taught me that sometimes no action is better than involvement where one doesn’t have adequate facts or information.
Let us assume that Trump would call supporters to step backward. Who would lead that call for action at that moment in time? Certainly not those that were both suspicious people (Anti-Trumper’s acting to rile up the crowd and cause damage) and Trump supporters who saw the Capitol Police murder 2 protestors, without any regard for life and limb. Some were actively stirring up violence.
We already know that this was not an organized protest. There were many different factions, including those suspicious people who were violently against Trump.
Perhaps the most organized were the Oath Keepers. Could Trump send out peace messages and try and get the most organized group to help stop the rioting? The Oath Keepers were already engaged at the east side of the building, helping police manage the crowds and protecting the police in at least three different areas.
I think one can conclude that when one wanted Trump to act, there is a strong possibility he could have done nothing to change the situation. Time was required.
A change in police tactics and ridding the suspicious people from the crowd would have had a positive effect, but they were not under the control of Trump.
Here we have another situation created by the left and pushed by the media, yet many haven’t learned that when these stories are given time, we find what happened was completely the opposite. For the most part, I think that is what is happening here.
S Meyer—Right on!
SamFox
Remember Ashli Babbitt
-January 6, 2021
Remember Michael Byrd, Dastardly Murderer Of Unarmed American Woman
– January 6, 2021
OT
If Russia can “take” Ukraine,
America can “take” America.
______________________
Illegal deportation
is as moral, ethical and legal as
illegal immigration.
OT
THE AMERICAN DREAM IS FOR FOREIGNERS???
_________________________________________
“That dudn’t make any sense.”
– George W. Bush
_______________
Illegal invasion numbers approach 2 million international criminal invaders per year.
The Nicaraguan Dream.
The El Salvadorian Dream.
The Honduran Dream.
The Guatemalan Dream.
The Mexican Dream.
The Haitian Dream.
Wasn’t it just the other day when the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) in America accused Lizzie’s daddy, Dick, and, by extension, Lizzie, of being a foreign agent, anti-American, a traitor, anti-democratic, a Nazi, dictatorial, really, really nasty and the devil?
Lizzie sure changed her tune when the Real President Donald J. Trump made his grand escalator entrance and put Lizzie, her boyfriends Jebbie and Mittens in the basement to rot.
Lizzie and the commies (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) just hate the new kid in town, and the fact that he really does want to Make America Great Again, not just jawbone pseudo-conservatism.
With real opposition on the J6 Committee, we might hear about why there was no National Guard on hand to help keep order and might interview Ray Epps and others (particularly federal agents on hand) about their role in the ‘riot’. We missed out on even more than you note.
Jonathan: One thing that came out of Thursday night’s J.6 hearing was the revelation that the Secret Service says the texts and emails from 1/5 and 1/6 have been deleted. Jamie Raskin smells a rat. Those records will probably be recovered by the NSA. The Q is who deleted those records and why? Destroying those records is a violation of the Federal Records Act (44USC31).
Which brings us back to your column on 7/1 (“Presidential Protection or Abduction”) in which you argued the SS was wrong in not allowing Trump to go to the Capitol: “…he [Trump] had a right to do so. Presidents can elect to put themselves in harm’s way”. And: “The Secret Service has no authority to put the president in effective custody against his will”…”the security team was correct on the merits but probably wrong on the law”. I conclude you are wrong about the “law”. Let me explain.
There is an interesting article in the Daily Beast (7/22/22) by Jeffrey Robinson who explains the history of the SS. He points out the SS is a creature of Congress. The SS’s Presidential Protective Detail (PPD) is mandated by Congress to protect the “presidency”. It is not the president’s personal “bodyguards”. Robinson says: “The SS works for Congress, not the president”. And: “…it didn’t matter that Trump bellowed ‘I am the president, take me there’. They [PPD] were within their rights–and their congressional mandate–to ignore his direct order and say no”.
Of interest in this connection is that Trump was so impressed with SS agent Tony Ornato that he took him out of the PPD and gave him a WH staff position. Why did Trump do this? Because Ornato proved “loyal” to Trump personally rather than his duties as an SS agent. In essence Ornato was acting as Trump’s personal “bodyguard” and why Robinson thinks Ornato should be fired. And this dual loyalty conflict may explain why Ornato has disputed Cassidy Hutchinson’s account of the incident inside the “Beast”. And more problematic is that there are still members of the SS/PPD “loyal” to Trump rather then their mandated mission. And could this explain why texts and emails have been deliberately deleted?, Perhaps in future J.6 hearings we will learn more about this disturbing aspect of the investigation. In the meantime please explain the “law” and how you think Trump had a right to defy the SS so he could go up to the Capitol.
It’s unclear whether they’ll be able to recover the texts, as they weren’t simply deleted; according to the Secret Service, the were “lost” in a system migration.
A helpful description:
Paul Luehr [a former federal cybercrime prosecutor at the Department of Justice]: There’s a big difference between deleting and wiping a message, and I think that’s getting lost in the context here. So when you delete a message as a normal consumer, the message is actually not gone. So think of it like a table of contents that’s been ripped out of a book. You might not be able to find the chapter page where that section of the book begins, but the story is still intact.
Ari Shapiro: OK. So if the Secret Service says the texts were erased in a – system migration was their term. Is that deleting or wiping? Do you know what happened there?
Luehr: That’s probably wiping. If you simply delete a text, they are still available. And there are common forensics tools used by both law enforcement and civil investigators to recover them. If the message or the texts or the entire phone has been wiped, that’s a bigger problem because in that case, the underlying content has actually been zeroed out or overwritten, and therefore it’s no longer available, at least on that device. And that’s kind of what’s key here. I’m sure what the folks are doing now at Homeland Security and at the Secret Service is they’re scrambling to see are there any other locations where these texts could be located. … One possibility is going to other people in the conversation. So when I wipe my device, when I delete my entire conversation, it may disappear from my phone. But anybody else who was part of that conversation should still have those texts on their device….
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/21/1112777695/can-deleted-text-messages-actually-be-retrieved
Not only is destroying the records a violation of the Federal Records Act, but they’d also been FOIAed in Jan. of 2021 by Jason Leopold of Buzzfeed, and the USSS had confirmed that it had records that were relevant to his FOIA, and it’s illegal to destroy FOIAed records.
Will the people responsible for breaking the law here be charged? Time will tell.
Not only is destroying the records a violation of the Federal Records Act
I remember the Mueller team wiped a dozen or so phones by accidentally. The accident, was entering the wrong password multiple times. Waiting ~2 hours to the phone to unlock, and repeating the attempt again. After a few times, all the data is overwritten.
It was an honest mistake happening to lots of phones over the same time frame.
NOBODY cared….for some reason. So accidents happen…am I right?
This was a planned migration, not an accident.
Accidents are federal crimes?
Do you understand the meaning of “not,” retard?
“Not only is destroying the records a violation of the Federal Records Act,”
So this is your comment about the missing SS texts. If the planned migration in not a crime why do you bring up crimes?
There is an interesting article in the Daily Beast (7/22/22) by Jeffrey Robinson who explains the history of the SS. He points out the SS is a creature of Congress.
“a creature of”…. I spent a couple of hours trying to find a definition of the phrase and how a judge would interpret such a wording. I can find nothing.
A simple google search tells us the agency is under the Department of Homeland Security. An Executive Branch Agency.
But leftist, being stupid, and lead around by their confirmation bias, are sentenced to stupidity for life.
The President of the United States, in fact, is in charge of the Secret Service.
You know, “retard,” if you weren’t so lazy, you could look up the actual legislation. They were created in 1865 by an act of Congress. They were originally part of the Treasury Dept. and were transferred by Congress to the DHS after it was created.
By law, the “United States Secret Service Uniformed Division” are “Under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security” and “Subject to the supervision of the Secretary of Homeland Security,” but are not subject to the supervision of the President.
Homeland Security is a cabinet level agency. Operated by the Executive Branch of the United States. The President of the United States is the head of the Executive Branch.
Everyone understands the three branches of govt.
Except you it seems
You don’t understand the plain words on the page.
The President can fire the DHS Secretary but cannot himself override the orders given to the USSS by the Secretary.
You need a cite on that.
Iowan2 shows a predisposition to the sort of centralizing planning that has served the Russian military so well in Ukraine.
A predisposition to the Constitution
That’s what leftist always get wrong.
When it sounds right of center. It is just Constitutional
According to you, Trump could have ordered Comey not to investigate Flynn.
According to you, Trump could have ordered Barr to arrest Hillary.
After all, the FBI and DOJ are part of the Executive Branch, and according to you, the President can order everyone within any Executive Branch agency to do whatever he wants.
Yes, all of that is true
That’s the Steve Bannon read of the Constitution. Not what the Constitution actually says. Presidents aren’t kings.
To date you haven’t demonstrated any knowledge of the Constitution or any desire to follow the rule of law. Why should people listen to you?
We are all “Kings” of our domain. The President is “King” of the Executive Branch
Yet you never cited the constitution
Any thoughts on WHY thousands of hours of video are being hidden away by the fake ‘committee’? Somehow I don’t buy that the dimm ghouls care at all about ‘national security’ or we would not have open borders or allow China to buy US farmland near US military installations. Or allow the CCP to buy ANY US property. Confucius Centers in US colleges anyone?
Anyone that gives the slightest credence to the sham ‘committee’ after all the other previous fake attempts by the demoncrats to smear Trump & his supporters is another traitor supporting the fascists, The fascists who are attacking US with the REAL insurgency.
SamFox
Just another unethical member of Congress. Thankfully he was primaried.
Roger Sollenberger: “Madison Cawthorn’s campaign ended in a financial collapse, covering costs with donor money it wasn’t allowed to touch unless he won the primary. According to a campaign source, he owes donors hundreds of thousands, but he’s broke.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/madison-cawthorn-campaign-illegally-spent-funds-it-wasnt-supposed-to-touch
The editors of the NY Post, Trump’s favorite paper, to which he gave an interview this week, after the last J6 hearing:
Trump’s silence on Jan. 6 is damning
As his followers stormed the Capitol, calling on his vice president to be hanged, President Donald Trump sat in his private dining room, watching TV, doing nothing. For three hours, seven minutes. There has been much debate over whether Trump’s rally speech on Jan. 6, 2021, constituted “incitement.” That’s somewhat of a red herring. What matters more … is that Trump didn’t lift a finger to stop the violence that followed. … It was incitement by silence. … To his eternal shame, as appalled aides implored him to publicly call on his followers to go home, he instead further fanned the flames by tweeting: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.” … It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/trumps-jan-6-silence-renders-him-unworthy-for-2024-reelection/
Will the Trumpists now turn on the NY Post, as they’ve turned on other conservatives who don’t carry Trump’s water?
Republican Liz Cheney is getting death threats. Republican Adam Kinzinger is getting death threats. Republican Cassidy Hutchinson has gotten death threats. When will the Republican hierarchy condemn these threats, like they condemned Kavanaugh being harassed at dinner?
Chuck Schemer and Nazi Pelosi approve this message (they better—Soros paid for it).
Trump likes childish name-calling too. No wonder you like him.
I highly doubt that Soros has anything to do with the NY Post’s editors. But don’t let that get in the way of your conspiracy theorizing.
First, nobody buys your fake outrage. If Trump disappeared tomorrow, you’d be spewing the same swill about other Republicans.
Second, your incompetent scoundrels in the Dingbat Party are still worse than Trump.
First, I was quoting the conservative NY Post, and if Trump disappeared tomorrow, I highly doubt that they’d be saying the same things about other Republicans.
Second, it should be no surprise to you that we have different opinions about who is an “incompetent scoundrel” and who is worse than whom. I invite you to join me in acknowledging that these are opinions rather than facts and that people often have different opinions.
Third, it’s not “fake outrage” to condemn people who post death threats. I condemn them regardless of who they’re directed towards — SCOTUS Justices, members of Congress, witnesses, everyday people. FFS, what is wrong with you that you’d rather believe that it’s “fake outrage” instead of joining me in condemning it? Death threats are immoral and harmful. Can you bring yourself to agree?
Cry me a river.
Your incompetent scoundrels released a man who tried to knife a GOP gubernatorial candidate. Do you really think anybody believes your sanctimonious, one-sided crap?
He has to make his earnings somehow, with copying/pasting, considering he has no cognitive ability and “sanctimony” is his spirit animal
😉
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thank u for the Funny, Estivir!
LOL, they weren’t MY “incompetent scoundrels”!
The local DA, Sandra Doorley, is not only a Republican, she’s a co-chair of Zeldin’s campaign!
Jakubonis was charged with an offense that doesn’t require bail instead of being charged with a more serious crime. But don’t blame the Democrats for that.
I couldn’t care less what you believe about me. I do care about facts, so next time, get your facts straight before blaming the wrong people.
The Feds finally rearrested the attacker this afternoon. It took two days for the scoundrels to respond. It only took Trump 90 minutes.
Blame the local DA, who’s a Republican.
“It only took Trump 90 minutes” to do what?
NY state law set him free, not the GOP DA. She had no choice, so the Feds had to arrest him under federal law. Try to keep up.
The New York Times reports
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/nyregion/lee-zeldin-suspect-bail.html
Some Democrats contended that the nonviolent felony charge made sense given the nature of the attack, the unsteady manner of the assailant and the fact that he had not actually hit Mr. Zeldin with his weapon.
Hochul should be worried, aside from the fact she sent an email blast directing her brown shirts to stalk and harass Congressman Zeldin.
Had the Congressman been a black / Gay / Lesbian / Trans Democrat and/or the Perp been a Confederate flag waving White guy,…. Americans all know the playbook
On the contrary, NY state law for what SHE chose to charge him with required that he be released. But NY state law did NOT prevent her from filing more serious charges that would have required bail or possibly kept him in jail pending trial.
She absolutely had a choice about what charges to file. Try to keep up yourself.
Anomaly,
I understand your confusion. This is a Republican prosecutor so she recognizes that the law requires that certain ‘elements’ must be met before a person can be charged with a crime. Jakubonis was charged with second degree assault. Per NY state law this charge requires no bail. This is a bad outcome but it is required by NY state law.
Your suggestion that the prosecutor could ramp the charges up achieve the desired sentencing outcome regardless of the requirements of the law is what makes you a leftist. This is what your side does. You are lawless.
dissarRayed, you ignored my having already pointed out that a number of legal experts say that the act met those elements and Dooley could have charged first degree:
https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/lee-zeldin-attacker-should-receive-more-serious-charge-experts/
You’re projecting your own confusion.
It took two days for the scoundrels to respond.
Nice catch. Thanks for the update.
Kathy Hochul NY state laws allowed the perp to walk but the Feds were able to retain him for a federal assault charge. This is the best publicity Congressman Lee Zeldin could have received, gratis, at a cost to Hochul. The perp is a broken man but alas a threat to others. Hochul will pay at the polls for her arrogance.
Again, Sandra Doorley, the local DA who was responsible for charging Jakubonis, is not only a Republican, she’s a co-chair of Zeldin’s campaign. Do you think she did it on purpose to get publicity for Zeldin?
Talk about a weirdo-conspiracy theory!
The DA is a Republican, per the NY Times link I provided, and is assisting Zeldin’s campaign. However, even NYC Soros puppet DA Alvin Bragg dropped his preposterous murder case against bodega hero Jose Alba, meaning DAs are not monarchs. NY State Laws under Democrats revision in 2020 set Jakubonis free.
Ignore everything Peter Shill says. He is the DNC Act Blue paid troll Stooge.
😜
Estovir, be careful because sometimes two people get confused. Anonymous the Stupid points that out in a later comment. Peter Shill is another anonymous. i’ll summarize, we have Anonymous the Stupid (ATS) and Stupid Anonymous (Peter Shill).
She normally charges people on the more extreme end. How do you explain her charging decision?
Estovir, I’m LOL that you think I’m Seth Warner / Peter Hill.
All us liberals look alike to you, huh?
And plenty of other legal experts point out that Dooley could have filed more serious charges:
“they could have charged first-degree”
https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/lee-zeldin-attacker-should-receive-more-serious-charge-experts/
How about condemning people who actually act out those death threats?
The guy who flew across the country, admitting his goal was kill a Supreme Court Justice?
The guys just 2 days ago, who tried to kill Rep Zeldin with a Brass Knuckle Butterfly Shaft (specifically used & marketed as discrete yet effective deadly weapons).
The hundreds of Biden Supporters who could be seen (on video after video) during 2020, chasing & threatening peaceful civilians and officials doing things like eating dinner, leaving peaceful Trump Rallies, walking to their cars in DC after GOP political events, etc?
Or the thousands all over twitter, right now, who are loudly, actively & repeatedly urging anyone & everyone to ignore, ostracize, shut-down, shut-up, even to altogether-cancel/erase/eradicate all dissent, all opposing views, and most especially GOP voices; including Fox News, anyone who worked for or supports Trump, anyone who is pro 2A, etc.
It started on Trump’s Inauguration day, and escalated with ferocity vis a vis ANTIFA BLM anarchy in 2020 and following years. It continues today across America outside our very homes. The Left did this. Americans hold Democrats responsible for the descent into chaos of our country.
Including (& most especially) with the Leftist-Activist’s Medias major help! They created a caricature of Trump in 2015/2016 (much like they’ve been doing w the GOP itself, for decades). This is unfortunately what a whole generation of young, indoctrinated & woefully-inadequately-under-educated kids think is the truth. So very sad.
Of course I condemn people who murder or who attempt to murder — regardless of who it is aimed at. Will you join me in that?
That’s not at all the same thing as your last paragraph, and I won’t equate them.
Nobody here is advocating murder. Can you please stop clutching your pearls?
Diogenes, do you have difficulty following exchanges?
Whack-a-Troll asked me at 3:46 PM “How about condemning people who actually act out those death threats?” If you think that’s pearl-clutching, direct your outrage to him or her, not to me for answering the question. I asked Whack-a-Troll (not you) to join me in the condemnation, since Whack-a-Troll (not you) was the one who asked.
Lamest attack i think I’ve ever seen.
You’re lookIng for someone who’s perfect and never made an error?? Well, there’s only ONE, and He doesn’t NEED to run.
The Left finds a “picking point” and just picks, picks, picks. To what end? To what avail?
DO YOU EVER ASK IF THIS GOVERNMENT HAS MADE YOUR LIFE BETTER?? TRUMP ACTUALLY DID.
Agreed that trump was a master in putting his finger on the pulse of American grievance. And then being able to pivot that grievance back into its lower nature.
There’s a major lesson there for all political parties as well as American education in general. A few things…
One is that, ultimately, trump strengthened the forces behind the scenes that produce much American grievance. I.e. he strengthened the ‘swamp’ exponentially. A second trump term would literally make the DOJ almost entirely partisan and personality driven at the expense of principle.
Another is trump made explicit that American public education is *incapable* as it stands to protect against characters like trump. The fact that rhetoric is not taught to a gullible public is beyond tragic.
Yet another is the left absolutely has to learn from its younger members. The reason someone like AOC garners so much hate on this blog is that she terrifies so many here.
“The reason someone like AOC garners so much hate on this blog is that she terrifies so many here.”
That is true.
Being a phony, a destroyer, and a tyrant have a way of doing that to those who like prosperity and liberty.
WSJ editorial board (another conservative group):
No matter your views of the Jan. 6 special committee, the facts it is laying out in hearings are sobering. The most horrifying to date came Thursday in a hearing on President Trump’s conduct as the riot raged and he sat watching TV, posting inflammatory tweets and refusing to send help. … Mr. Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution, and he had a duty as Commander in Chief to protect the Capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. He refused. He didn’t call the military to send help. He didn’t call Mr. Pence to check on the safety of his loyal VP. Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out. … In the 18 months since, Mr. Trump has shown not an iota of regret. … Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-president-who-stood-still-donald-trump-jan-6-committee-mike-pence-capitol-riot-11658528548
posting inflammatory tweets and refusing to send help. …
Send what help exacty. The executive Branch has no power in Capitol. That would be Pelosi….She NEVER requested help. Nor did she plan for help
“Trump’s silence on Jan. 6 is damning“
Not at all. The media is controlling what you hear and somewhat of what you feel. Their job is to make you dumber than you were before and in the process confuse you so much that you don’t even know what your birth name is.
Did you hear that Trump authorized troops? Did you hear they were declined by Pelosi?
Did you hear about the shoot-to-kill orders?
No to all. Your mind is programmed not to think, and it sounds like your mind cannot think even if it weren’t programmed.
Meyer the Obsessed Troll Liar quotes the conservative NY Post Editorial Board and then pretends to talk to them. In addition to being an obsessed troll liar, he’s delusional.
“Trump’s silence on Jan. 6 is damning” was posted by another anonymous. perhaps the stupid one with a thousand names. My reply was to the Stupid one that posted and highlighted the phrase. Why would I talk to the editorial board of the Post. They are not here, are they?
Do you see how you get your facts all messed up? This is a continuous problem for you. For all anyone knows, you could have posted the article, but even you are so confused you might not remember.
I hope I cleared everything up for you, Anonymous the Stupid.
———-
“Meyer the Obsessed Troll Liar quotes the conservative NY Post Editorial Board and then pretends to talk to them. In addition to being an obsessed troll liar, he’s delusional.”
Soon as the DEMs n RINOs condemn the many threats against conservative voters & politicians which they are actually inciting. This includes the recent assassination attempts against eg, Kavanaugh and Zeldin (which you conveniently ignore in your own comment).
And most egregiously & irresponsibly (though probably also most-intentionally), the Jan 6 committee & its champions are currently making Trump & his supporters the target of further hate & potential violence; Such a predictable result is arguably the goal when our leaders once again waste millions of man-hours + taxpayer dollars trying to blame President Trump for the violent riot portion of the Jan 6 Protests despite the fact that the clearly-partisan-mInded Committee has so far proven there is no direct evidence to support such a claim or effort.
A Committee that was truly interested in safeguarding America from future violent attacks against our Federal institutions & officials would instead be focused on Federal & law enforcement (“LEO”) response (or lack thereof) to attacks perpetrated against those institutions, leaders & candidates. This includes looking at attacks on + against Federal properties like the Capital in DC & others across the States, as well our most sacred institutions; such as our Courts, our Court Officers & our Election Processes. Specifically, an effective investigative & probative focus would be on eg: the inadequate Federal response to the Capital violence on Jan 6; the many months of riotous activity across the Nation during 2020 & 2021; the clearly-questionable & highly-unusual last minute changes made across the country, around long-standing election policies, laws & practices, during a Global Disaster & critical National Election; the murder of an unarmed veteran in our Nation’s Capital; etc. – – – AND WITHOUT QUESTION, a truly preventative-aimed investigation would be focused on who was in charge of related LEO decisions & activities before, during & after such attacks occurred.
What part of “I condemn [death threats] regardless of who they’re directed towards — SCOTUS Justices, members of Congress, witnesses, everyday people” do you fail to understand?
“regardless of who they’re directed towards” includes Kavanaugh and Zeldin.
What part of THREAT vs. ACTUAL ASSAULTS & EVEN ATTEMPTED MURDER do you not seem to understand?
Man, you are big on missing the forest through the trees, huh?
Apparently you cannot admit that “which you conveniently ignore in your own comment” was false.
What was Trump supposed to do?
He told them to go home – and they did.
What did Nancy do ? refused the assistance of the national guard BEFORE the event when it would have helped.
As a start, he should have immediately condemned the violence and told them to go home instead of waiting over 3 hours to do so.
We can at least prove that Kavanaugh was threatened. The RINOs you mentioned also say they are ‘republicans’. It is sooo obvious that they lie. NY Post? Barr also turned on Trump. Seems like that is where the money is these days.
NY Post.
NYP played the video of the ‘hidden witness’. This was the ol’ crying cops gag to get people emotional. He says “I just don’t know!” a couple of times. “I didn’t have visibility!” Hmm. Sounds like…well, like he was either lying or assuming. I think some of each. Like Asinine Occasional Cortex, ” I could have gotten raped” even though there was no one in her vicinity to do that.
NYP also had a video, Trump Supporters Breach the doors. Video was shot so one could see people going towards the building, but never showed the doors being breached. Were these doors cops held open? Why is ALL the video not being shown???
You Trump haters can play all your deceitful deceptive games to help the Great Reset come about or you can wake up a smell the coffee. If you think the USA being subservient to the NWO’s one world government, China type credit score & all, is good…then go for it.
Just remember. When this kind of revolution happens, those who win take out those who helped them. Especially the higher up sellouts. They may leave a few drone useful idiots in places of power, but they know that if you betrayed your own country, you can’t be trusted to support the one you helped them conquer.
Read Glenn Beck’s The Great Reset. Glenn has it nailed. Don’t let the NWO nail YOU!
SamFox
It would be more productive and honest if each state followed the example of the Wisconsin State Legislature in investigating their 2020 election ballots.
See:
Rasmussen Reports
@Rasmussen_Poll
Wisconsin State Legislature Report:
“On election day, Spitzer Rubenstein had access to the ballots and determined which ones would be counted or not counted.”
Michael Spitzer Rubenstein was a partisan election operative paid by Mark Zuckerberg.
See page 70 at the link below
KABOOM: Former Wisconsin State Supreme Court Justice Michael Gableman heading the Office of Special Counsel contradicts the assertions of security and air gaping from the internet put forth to date by the digital voting machines companies – see pgs 13-15.
https://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/22/brandtjen/media/1552/osc-second-interim-report.pdf
Thank you Estovir. I had the report but never got around to reading it since it is 136 pages in length. Did you read it in its entirety or did you find a summary?
These sentences demonstrate that Powell had a basis for her claims. The lack of requests for information amplify that defense.
I decided it was important enough to reprint a small portion of pages 13-15
“The OSC was able to identify, through the reports of experts, that the failed machine recorded two anonymous and unauthorized access events from its VPN. This means, contrary to what Dominion has publicly stated, that at least some machines had access to the internet on election night. Shortly after the unauthorized access was recorded, the machine failed and was reset, wiping all voting history and forcing that election administrator to rely on unverifiable paper printouts from the failed machine.
ESS machines were equally problematic. The central problem is that several of the machines are made with a 4G wireless modem installed, enabling them to connect to the internet through a Wi-Fi hotspot. One municipality under investigation in Wisconsin by the OSC admitted that these machines had these modems and were connected to the internet on election night. The reason given was to “transmit data” about votes to the county clerks…
and ballots were controlled by a single individual who was not a government employee but an agent of a special interest group operating in Wisconsin. …
As of the date of this Report, the voting machine companies have refused to comply with the OSC’s legislative subpoenas, and have provided no data.
—–
Above from pg 13-15
https://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/22/brandtjen/media/1552/osc-second-interim-report.pdf
S. Meyer,
You likely read some of the major books in the mid to late 1970s about Watergate. I was in high school at the time, and the Jesuits pounded into us boys the importance of estovir (Latin: be an authentic man in the image of Jesus Christ). A reoccurring theme in those Watergate books and in political analysis about Richard Nixon then, as with the present day 2020 election analysis, was “stonewalling”. To wit, Kamala Harris is in Richmond today, and we did not know upon driving to breakfast, 6:30 am, where her entourage would be. The local news this morning had no updated info on her scheduled visit. I checked. She is the Vice President. In prior eras, the VP visiting a city would be a big deal. Today, Harris’s visit was another example of stonewalling. She did not disclose her schedule, her venue, and last night I learned that the Virginia Governor and the Republicans of the State Assembly of Virginia had no info about her visit either. They were not invited. Why hide? Why make yourself available only to a select few Democrats? Why discuss anything but the very pressing concerns of Americans: decline of America, violent crime, exorbitant costs for energy, food and housing, pervasive fear, mental health deterioration of school age children, political polarization, etc. Nope: it is an all abortion tour.
Stonewalling is now de rigueur just like it was detailed page after page in the Wisconsin Office of the Special Document (OSD) Investigative report. The introduction repeats the same observation: This shaken faith is not a result of legitimate legislative inquiries into election administration, nor is it a result of lawful contests lodged by any candidate or party. Rather, it is largely a function of opaque, confusing, and often botched election processes…... The title of Chapter 3 is glaring in the spirit of stonewalling: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside Corporate Collusion.
As we gathered with friends for breakfast at a popular diner, I kept expecting to see a VP motorcade with typical US Federal shiny black SUVs and American flags, driving down the main street of Richmond where we dined. Nada. It never happened. My friends at breakfast were oblivious but I was filled with a sense of unease due to the nefariousness, duplicitousness and stonewalling of the VP’s visit. Ive been called paranoid scores of times since my teenage years by Americans, for seeing a Communist behind every other tree. Today I see them behind every tree. The stonewalling that Pelosi, Biden, legacy media elite have employed to block basic info on Hillary’s Russia Hoax up to Zuckerberg, MSM, and DNC in circumventing state legislatures and state laws regarding the 2020 elections, confirm my suspicions.
last page, pp 136:
First, the Legislature would need a majority in both houses to pass a resolution concluding that the 2020 election was (a) held in violation of state law, as detailed in this Report (or other sources), in one or more respects; and (b) the degree of violation of state law in place on November 3, 2020 rose to the level that fraud or other illegality under Wisconsin law could have affected the outcome, using any evidentiary test for certainty the Legislature agreed should apply (for instance, a preponderance, etc.). And second, the Legislature would need to invoke and then exercise its plenary power to designate the slate of electors it thought best accorded with the outcome of the election, had it been run legally in accord with the state election laws in effect on November 3, 2020. This would lead to decertifying the relevant electors, if the Legislature concluded that they were not the slate of electors that best accorded with the election if run consistent with all relevant Wisconsin laws in effect on election day.
However, this action would not, on its own, have any other legal consequence under state or federal law. It would not, for example, change who the current President is
The OSD might be right in the above bolded statement. However, there is no reason to believe that Wisconsin was an isolated event. Add Virginia, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia….you get the picture. The 2020 election was a rigged election because state laws were ignored by Democrat Governors using COVID as pretext, abusing emergency powers, secretaries of state ignored state laws without consulting with their state legislatures, and absentee / drop box ballots, disregarding signatures, witnesses, identification, all made the 2020 a farce. Mind you I never voted for Trump in 2016 nor 2020. Every time I see his face, disgust overcomes me. However none of this is about Trump. It is about the greatest country in the world. We are a banana republic if none of this is investigated or, worse, ignored.
Correction: the proper name is:
“Office of the Special Counsel, Second Interim Investigative Report”
Let someone produce one federal memo or report showing that investigative attempts confirmed that indeed it was the “most secure” election in history. It wasnt and they wont & can’t, bc there was never any legitimate federal investigation activity undertaking that would be adequate enough to actually fill the pages of even a short, believable report.
My reply never made it to the blog. I don’t know why.
When I think of Watergate, I think of what was the bigger crime. (Without a doubt, Nixon was wrong despite being one of the smartest Presidents in international affairs). I think how could the second in command of the FBI be spying on the President? In my estimation, the FBI has always been crooked, and today they present the danger of fascism. Nixon resigned, which shows that inwardly he believed in the rule of law.
Today we have a fascist oligarchy that pays little attention to the Constitution. Of course, Kamala hides while the President hides in plain sight, a remarkable illusion, better than Copperfield, but the fact is, most intelligent people know he is a puppet President.
Paranoia is good. It prepares one for potential disaster. Everyone in my family has a bit of paranoia. I do not see communists behind every tree, but I do see self-serving fascists. As you note, the 2020 election is adding to the substantial proof of a lawless election. Thank you for the information on page 136. You have more stamina than I.
“However, this action would not, on its own, have any other legal consequence under state or federal law. It would not, for example, change who the current President is”
Would it have if these actions were performed before the Jan 6 vote took place? Your ending sentiments are mine as well.
I’d like to add something I may or may not have said to you at another time. My wife is not American-born. She came from behind the iron curtain and her history is book worthy. She has been arrested multiple times, jailed, carried secret documents across the border that was mined, and was captured and searched, but the microfilm was not found. She would have been jailed for whatever, but the jails were filled so they added another bad behavior remark on her internal passport, perhaps jailing her at a future date.
She was not admitted into this country for almost a year. I won’t go into more details about her traumatic history but deal with the present.
She came to this country barely able to speak English. Her sole aid was a teacher who provided her with flashcards (her native tongue is not Latin based) and incessantly teased her, as did many in her class. She learned and thrived in America without money or help except for decent parents that traveled an alternate route and met at the mined border. She was with an MI6 agent requiring cover and the assistance of another because of local events.
She has had two completely different careers, but I wanted to talk about the first. She was one of the first trained system design engineers in the country. After looking for a job, she came home happy and said she was immediately hired by a very large company that continues to be prominent today.
I am telling you this because of some of the things you said about Americans, which are completely understandable.
She was waiting for formal approval from the company but it never came. She was denied the job because of anti-Semitism (there was no other reason, and the company was known not to hire Jews.) They finally came up with an excuse. She failed the standard test given to all employees, from janitors to executives.
No matter. She found another job that was mostly tech and was made an executive from the start. They took her out to dinner to tell her that on the exam given only to engineers and technical people she scored the highest they had ever seen.
That gets to my point. I am not one to walk away from a fight. Anti-Semitism just like racism is something that should never exist, but it does. Suing and fighting are the first things that came to mind.
What did my wife, the immigrant, feel? She was never safe in her life. Her parents made it out of the concentration camps, Auschwitz being one of them. She was alive and free. What could she say? She was free to find another job which she did. Those people that followed the anti-Semitic unwritten rules didn’t want to kill her or even stop her from thriving. Her answer was she loved those people, the teacher that ridiculed her, those other students that teased her for her foreign tongue, and the people denying hearth job.
No one killed her or stopped her from living and thriving. Love was the only answer. She loved America and all Americans despite their flaws, and when we would return from abroad after one of our frequent trips, she would kiss the ground.
Immigrants make the best Americans. Those voices who were loudest in Loudon County, VA against the school board imposing CRT in classrooms, were those of immigrants. Those immigrant parents know what is happening to America better than Americans. Americans do not realize what they have in America. If they did, to quote Nancy Pelosi
“I Don’t Even Know Why There Aren’t Uprisings All Over The Country”
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/14/pelosi_i_dont_even_know_why_there_arent_uprisings_all_over_the_country_over_migrant_child_separation.html
agreed
this woman is a legend!
Estovir, the American fertility rate is below replacement. That means immigration is in the best interests of the nation, but it should be controlled, legal and in numbers that permit assimilation. My rule of thumb is, it must be in the interests of America.
“Those immigrant parents know what is happening to America better than Americans.”
That is an interesting question which doesn’t have a definitive answer, but why should one bother to ask?
Estovir and S. Meyer—The dimms howl to the high heavens that “this was the most honest election…!!” Those who say otherwise are called a lot of names, are demeaned online & fascist dimms try to get them canceled & despised…
Ya know, if the election WERE so honest & aboveboard & WE were howling at the moon incorrectly, it would be easy to shut us up.
ALL they would have to do is let us hang ourselves by assisting in an honest & fair investigation of said election.
If they were righteous, we’d HAVE to shut up.
Odd then, is it not, that THEY are the ones who are deathly afraid of an honest investigation…If they are right & we wrong, wouldn’t they JUMP at the chance to laugh us off of the internet?
YET THEY DON’T DO THAT!!!
Gee. I wonder why…
SamFox
You description of the J6 hearing was right on. What is missing is questions about the total lack of questions about the total lack of preparedness on the part of Pelosi and Bower. I do not relish the role of conspiracy theorist, but it seems possible that events played out exactly as partisan Democrats hoped. No real harm done and an issue created for the midterms. Were troops offered and rejected?
Trump offered National Guard troops on January 4th. Prior to the riot, the Capitol Hill Police Chief made MULTIPLE requests for troops, but Pelosi and Mayor Bowser refused. The House Sergeant-at-Arms thought it would be a bad look to have troops at the Capitol, and Bowser feared military confrontations with demonstrators.
The Police Chief, the House Sergeant-at-Arms, and the Senate Sergeant-at-Arms were forced to resign.
Pelosi won’t be House Majority Leader much longer.
In his Ellipse speech on Jan 6th, Trump boasts that if Mike Pence will do the right thing, “I become President”. He details the plot to wrest control of a 2nd term. Pence is supposed to reject EC vote certificates from enough states, denying Biden the 270 needed to be declared President. (The Constitution the proscribes a state-by-state vote in the House, which Trump had the numbers to win 26-24.)
He credits Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman as his main collaborators.
It wasn’t a secret plot. Rudy went on Fox News in early December, right after the last court challenges were all lost, and was spouting off about a “long shot” plan where Trump would remain President.
The Ellipse speech is self-incriminating about conspiracy to interfere or impede an official proceeding of Congress. What is DoJ waiting for to indict these 3 political criminals? There is ample proof beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction.
Forget about dereliction of duty. Forget about incitement of a riot.
Trump admits to the crime of interfering with a proceeding of Congress in his speech, and tags his co-conspirators. Arm-twisting Mike Pence is the means. The motive, to remain President, is clearly stated.
“There is ample proof beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction.“
pbinca, state the crime and provide a bit of evidence. So far your lack of evidence would convict every Democrat presently in any office over the entire nation. Is that what you are aiming for?
Think about the rule of law.
None of this is a crime. And there are examples after examples throughout History of DEMS doing exactly the same. Google is your friend. The media & DEMs repackaging legal behavior, spun as evil & criminal? They are not your friends.
More nonsense.
Pence can not unilaterally reject EC votes.
That is the exclusive domain of congress.
Pence controls the process not the outcome.
He can put forth the electors from the legislatures before those from the Sec State.
That is all he could do.
And he was constitutionally free to do that.
it would not likely have worked. But it was atleast theoretically possible.
Several states asked Pence to delay certification. Though Pence could not change any of the slates himself, state legislatures could.
https://federalinquirer.com/117-state-legislators-from-contested-battleground-states-ask-vp-pence-to-delay-certification-of-electoral-votes/
SamFox
Correct – what you describe is all legal and constitutional actions.
Their can not be a criminal conspiracy to act within the law and constitution.
You have lots and lots of evidence or a perfectly legal conspiracy to excercise the last available constitutional option that Trump had.
Not a Crime.
And it happened in 1876.
There is no crime of attempting to use constitutionally acceptable processes to get the outcome you want.
So sad to see this continue on. To see Trump hit from every side. Our Country was so much better off when he was in charge. It is difficult to believe their is so much hatred for one man. But I know God will carry him through he knows his heart. I worry at night about these mothers and children that are hungry and cannot afford their gas and it cost so much they are not making enough to work. Thank you Jonathan for caring
At this rate the big guy will lose the 2024 nomination to Jimmy Carter.
I see Biden is costing you sleep, too.
The POTUS is a doofus (Demented Oligarch OF the United States).
Whenever I put gas in my vehicle, I see all I have to see. Russia, Russia, Russia. Abortion, Abortion, Abortion. Climate change, climate change, climate change. The dims better keep their eyes on those taco voters, they’re trending republican. The big guy is the worst president we have ever had.
I knew Wen Bars. Wen Bars was my friend. You are no Wen Bars.
He also never cited focus groups as scientific samplings. You’re an idiot.
THAT isn’t me. I was not commenting at that time last night. Somebody stole my identity. That one is a commie.
I had no doubt he was an imposter. The real Wen Bars is a patriot.
Wen Bars, the real one,
Yeah, someone posted as me last night too.
They seem to be getting desperate, having to resort to such tactics.
Perhaps you hadn’t noticed that people have long been impersonating Svelaz and others on the left. For all we know, it’s the same troll doing it on both sides.
UpstateFarmer and WenBars,
When I started commenting on this forum over 3 years ago, I was continually harassed and accused of being a Russian troll by Peter Shill (aka Seth Warner, Svelaz, Sammy, Enoch Poor, and many other sock puppet accounts). He stated the word “Estovir” was indicative of my being Russian. The word is actually Latin and it is used in Catholic pedagogy. Seeing that I remained commenting on the forum in spite of his attempts at chasing me off, he turned his wrath to others including using their avatar names. About 1.5 years ago several affectionately called him Paint Chips because he probably chewed leaden paint when he was a child. He is banned on here routinely by the moderator and uses VPN and new IP addresses to circumvent the block. He also alters the characters of his name and key words he uses to insult others to circumvent any word filters created to block his comments, e.g. Stooge vs St00ge. He is likely a paid troll by Act Blue DNC troll farm or schizophrenic/psychotic. Engaging him only rewards him.
Entertaining no?
His comments follow the same monosyllabic, adolescent verbiage characteristic of a shunned little girl. Just ignore him and laugh. Yes, we are entertained.
😜
If you read about the Soviet show trials of the 1930a, see, e.g., The Great Terror by Robert Conquest, you will see that the prosecution based its “evidence” on confessions. The entire legal process consisted of forcing Stalin’s political opponents to make confessions which the NVKD had written. (Most of the confessions admitted to plotting against the Communist regime.) After a short trial, the confessions would be read into the record and the political opponent would then be shot. Pravda would report that Stalin had been wholly vindicated.
This is so Stalinesque.
Or perhaps it’s Reaganesque: “I ask you to think of the scene in our Capitol Rotunda on the night of January 6. There in a sacred space in our Constitutional Republic. The place where our Presidents lie in state. Watched over by statues of Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln and Grant, Eisenhower, Ford, and Reagan. Against every wall that night encircling the room, there were SWAT teams. Men and women in tactical gear, with long guns, deployed inside our Capitol building. There in the Rotunda these brave men and women rested beneath paintings depicting the earliest scenes of our Republic, including one painted in 1824, depicting George Washington resigning his commission, voluntarily relinquishing power, handing control of the Continental Army back to Congress. With this noble act Washington set the indispensable example of the peaceful transfer of power, what President Reagan called, nothing less than a miracle. The sacred obligation to defend the peaceful transfer of power has been honored by every American President, except one. As Americans, we all have a duty to ensure that what happened on January 6 never happens again. To set aside partisan battles. To stand together, to perpetuate and preserve our great Republic.” “Ronald Reagan’s great ally, Margaret Thatcher, said this: let it never be said that the dedication of those who love freedom is less than the determination of those who would destroy it.”
Meanwhile, Joe’s regime rules by executive orders which are constantly being overruled by the Supreme Court as being unconstitutional. Now, emergency powers are being considered to address abortion and climate change.
Anon, or is it Q?
Nice empathy try. You were doing well until the BS started at “…honored by every American President except one.” If you are referring to Trump let’s have some real proof. It’s been, what FIVE & ONE HALF years!
All the demon lies, contrivances, false witnesses… the pools of donkey diarrhea swamp ya’ll wade & swim in…
yet NO REAL & TRUE evidence!! Lot’s of emotionalism. Lots of “boo hoo hoo…” like the fake crying cops… And LOTS of wasted taxpayer MONEY!!
The fascist demoncrats go after Trump & his voters. Where were they when the real riots, looting, burning & murders were going on? Those are ALL part of the REAL insurrection. An insurrection of the demoncrat party & RINO fellow travelers. Your people want to do the 0bamma thing of the transformation of the USA. You want to betray us as a vassal state under the NWO’s one world government.
Those of us who support Trump want a return to the US Constitution. We want fewer taxes, less spending, more freedom for ALL, even YOU fools, less govt control, babies to be welcomed into a loving environment, not slaughtered on a cold steel table by some demonic butcher.
We want peace, here and abroad.
All you want to do is murder, lie, cheat & steal. We want to build, you want to destroy. Your people want power. We want freedom.
Say what you will. You know I am telling you the truth.
SamFox
Jonathan: Now that the J.6 hearings are on summer recess the Q turns to whether/when the DOJ will file criminal charges against Trump. That’s premature for a number of reasons. Your favorite legal scholar, Lawrence Tribe, believes there is not enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to charge Trump with crimes under the likely three criminal statutes. He thinks it is more likely Georgia’s Fulton County DA, Fani Willis, will be the first to charge Trump. Legal expert Norman Eisen agrees: “There is powerful proof of violations of Georgia law in the form of the smoking gun tape of him demanding 11,780 votes, when he knows those votes did not exist”. I have always thought Willis had the better case.
So all eyes are now on Georgia. Earlier in the month Willis got the grand jury to issue a subpoena for Lindsey Graham to testify because the Senator called Brad Raffensperger to “examine certain ballots cast in Georgia in order to explore the possibility of a more favorable outcome” for Trump. Others under subpoena are Rudy Giuliani and Trump campaign attorneys. All are fighting the subpoenas.
Right now I am listening to Willie Nelson and Ray Charles’ version of “Georgia on my mind”. It seems Georgia is going to be on everyone’s mind in the coming weeks and months. Could get real hot and humid in Fulton County this summer!
Nonsense on stilts. When the entire conversation is listened to, Trump is clearly saying that there are many more illegitimate votes than that, and that he’s not asking for him to do the entire investigation that moment. The clear implication of Trump’s comments are that there is an abundance of fraudulent votes so coming up with 11,780 of them is all he needs. Not election interference of any sort. of course, some corrupt Dem judge and prosecutor will do anything, so who knows. But the actual merits of the case? Garbage.
Correct. And Trump has been proved right. The number of people who illegally voted in a county from which they had moved to a new permanent residence more than 30 days before the election exceeded Biden’s margin. And this was but one category of alleged illegal voting in Trump’s Georgia case that was the subject of the call. That case was slow-walked until it was too late to be heard. The remedy under Georgia law for illegal voting in excess of the margin of victory is a rerun. Fraud does not have to be proved.
Dennis & Scrib–I heard that conversation some months ago, 2-3 times. Trump did nothing wrong. In fact, Trump was correct. Scribgasim is quite correct.
The demoncrats are soooo afraid of Trump & his voters they are lying, cheating, stealing…but have no real evidence that can indict Trump. The demoncrats & stooge RINOs don’t want the US to be free.
SamFox
You idiots and your criminal charges delusions never learn. The next investigation always gets you all giddy.
Jonathan: I don’t know what J.6 hearing you watched last night. The one I watched involved the missing Nixon tapes–I mean the 187 minutes when Trump should have been on the phone to Homeland Security or the Pentagon to demand action: “Jesus guys, they have invaded the Capitol. People have been killed and injured. They’re looking for my VP to hang him. Send the troops over there NOW to save Mike Pence and stop the mayhem!”. Instead, Trump sat in the WH dining room watching Fox, Dr. Strangelove-like, mesmerized by seeing his plan finally coming to fruition. Trump did make a few calls during the time he was glued to the TV–but they were to GOP members of Congress to demand they stop the certification of the electoral vote.
You prefer the usual diversion and repeat the worn out argument that Trump can’t be prosecuted for what he didn’t do and there was no “balance” in the Committee’s presentation that you compare to a scripted George Lucas film. Actually, I like George Lucas’ films. My favorites are the “Indiana Jones” series. But I would prefer a comparison with the documentary “No End in Sight”, the 2007 film directed by Charles Ferguson about how George W Bush lied us into the war in Iraq. Actually I am in touch with Michael Moore to direct my own documentary that I title: “While Rome was burning Emperor Trump was Fiddling”. Nice title don’t you agree?
On a serious note you complain the hearings lacked a “full and fair account of the underlying evidence and claims”. Really? Maybe had Steve Bannon and Mark Meadows agreed to testify and provide documents the Committee might have gotten a more “full and fair account”. But both refused to testify and Bannon is now facing up to 2 years of jail time for his refusal. But I know, had the Committee listened to you Stewart Rhodes would have been allowed to present his own “full and fair account” version. I’m still laughing over that one! But I think the Committee has done a fine job in filling in the gaps with other testimony from key players involved in the events that led up to Jan. 6.
And there was again some levity in last night’s hearing. GOP Senator Josh Hawley, Missouri’s favorite son, was featured in one segment. It first showed him in that iconic photo where he raised his fist in solidarity with the insurrectionists approaching the Capitol. Later, after the Trump followers were already inside the Capitol Hawley is seen in a video running for his life as the insurrectionists approached. There was laughter in the hearing room at this scene of cowardice. It was priceless! Michael Moore would have fun with that segment! And then we can’t forget the segment inside the WH showing Trump preening and preparing for an address to the nation after the insurrection. You could hear the director, Ivanka, giving her father help with just the right words. Trump resisted telling his supporters to go home and kept banging the podium and waving Ivanka off–refusing to say publicly the election was over. Michael, we definitely have to include this segment in our documentary. Talk about great production values! .
Your column, Jonathan, is once again to provide an echo chamber for Fox that has portrayed the J.6 hearings as a Trump witch hunt. Their take was cogently expressed by Fox Host Ainsley Earnhardt who said: “Everyone in that room, they’re against Trump. They’re all anti-Trumpers. Every single one voted to impeach him”. You could have just said the same thing without using so many words. As usual Liz Cheney gave us a titillating hint that the hearings will continue in September with more evidence about Trump’s plan to hold on to power .Can’t wait for the fall series. It is destined for an Emmy!
The one I watched was on Netflix.
Dennis, you might enjoy these brief clips of Hawley set to various music, including Chariots of Fire, the Benny Hill theme, Rocky, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Born to Run, and others:
https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550289866411634689
Anonymous. Thanks. Very funny. Even funnier was Hawley’s reaction to the video shown by the J. 6 Committee. He said: “And I just want to say to all those liberals out there and the liberal media, just in case you haven’t gotten the message yet, I do not regret it. And I am not backing down. I’m not gonna apologize. I’m not gonna cower, I’m not gonna run from you”. Talk about irony! In addition to seditious conspiracy I think the DOJ should also charge Howley with murder–the murder of irony!
Amazing that he doesn’t see the irony.
I look forward to this clip being replayed in ads the next time Hawley runs for office. They could have a contest for pithy clip titles and the best accompanying music.
Anonymous: You forget one thing. Hawley runs in a very “red” state. Voters in Missouri love the fact he pokes his finger in the eyes of the “liberals”, the “liberal” media, the Dems and the Biden administration. His Senate seat is safe because his base is still firmly in the Trump wing of the party. I predicate Hawley will use the clips from the J6 hearings in future campaign ads to prove his loyalty to Trump and that will play well with the voters back home. He will wear those clips as a badge of honor!
I don’t see how a clip of Hawley running from the Trump mob demonstrates loyalty to Trump or pokes a finger in liberals’ eyes.
Dennis, I don’t have time to refute your gibberish point by point. Probably have already in other posts.
You sir are a fabricator.
SamFox