Former President Donald Trump has waived any objections to the release of the warrant and property receipt after the filing of a motion by the Justice Department. The motion, however, did not seek the release of the most important document in this controversy: the supporting FBI affidavit. That is the document that would reveal what the FBI told the magistrate about the prior communications with the Trump team and the specific allegations of the status of the documents in question.
There are reports that the documents involved material of the highest possible classification dealing with nuclear weapons. There is no question that the former President has no authority to retain classified material and that the government has a legitimate right to retrieve such material.
We should see the warrant and property list relatively soon in light of the DOJ motion and the Trump waiver. My greatest interest is the specificity of the information. Here are a few questions as we wait for the warrant and list:
- Attorney General Merrick Garland said that the DOJ would have used other less intrusive means if they were possible. Yet, it would seem that such options were not just possible but obvious, including the use of a second subpoena. Moreover, even if a raid was necessary, it is not clear why the DOJ would descend upon Mar-a-Lago with such a massive show of force rather than send a few agents over with the warrant.
- If the FBI believed that there was nuclear-related information in the resort, it certainly did not seem to move with dispatch. The last communication, according to the Trump team, was in June. Even after securing a warrant, there was reportedly a delay in executing the warrant. Why?
- If the FBI suspected that high-level material was retained at the resort, did they identify the material to the Trump team and demand its return? It is hard to imagine the Trump Team telling the FBI to pound sand if such a demand was made. Yet, such a denial would readily support a showing of probable cause. Moreover, adding a lock to the door of a storage room would not be viewed as sufficient for material at the apex of classification levels.
- Did the warrant specifically identify the material or the classification level? If the warrant sought the recovery of any possible classified evidence, it would again raise what was stated in the affidavit and the reason why such material was not acquired in the June subpoena despite the reported cooperation of the Trump team.
- There remains the role of the confidential informant and what the person shared with the DOJ. Was there evidence of active concealment of the material or merely a statement of additional documents being stored at the resort?
It is highly unlikely that all of this information will be contained in just the warrant and the list. Given the growing controversy over the necessity of the raid, this is one circumstance where the release of the affidavit is warranted. Rather than allow such questions to fester and grow, early and total transparency would seem in the public interest.
This column also appeared on Fox.com.
If there were strict civility rules you would be one of the first to go. Using banned or something that will be censored so that others posting underneath will have their responses deleted as well is uncivil. You should be permanently banned from the blog for such actions.
This abuse from you was proven months ago. You never apologized to all those you intentionally harmed. The postings are at and around. https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/10/the-vaccine-mandates-the-supreme-court-considers-a-trip-to-major-questions-land/comment-page-1/#comment-2150023 They show Anonymous the Stupid to be the vile person he is.
======
Self-deleted: “Civility, indeed.”
There is something obscene about the FBI raiding Trump’s home, while the dissolute Hunter Biden boards a private jet to go on vacation with his bumbling father — the destroyer-in-chief.
God forbid that Trump’s club be searched after getting a warrant.
Turn about is fair play.
If you are going to politically weaponize DOJ/FBI Warrants, … expect the same from Republicans when they are in power.
Some of us want the rule of law.
God forbid that the left abide by the rule of law.
ATS believes in one party rule where fascistic type government prevails.
Classic Trumpist projection
Say what you will, but anyone looking at what has been done by Democrats for the last 6 years will have an education of what the rule of law means to Democrats. Nothing.
For years we have heard that Republicans are poor at messaging.
Yet, in the past decade Democrats are completely unable to see how they look to the world.
The latest ruse to “get Trump” — classified documents.
This is, what, the 50th concocted scheme?
How many such ruses do people need before they see a pattern?
Actually, the crimes alleged don’t rely on the documents being classified. Have you bothered to read them? I posted links earlier.
Yes, we have read the law, and you are wrong.
I’m not wrong.
Consider 18 USC 793, for example: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
The word “classified” does not appear in the text of the law. The word “classification” does not appear in the text of the law.
It does say things like “any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing, or note of anything connected with the national defense.”
YOU are wrong, but you’re not honest enough to admit it.
Do you know what classified means ?
This was all beaten to death in 2016.
Your trying to make this into a semantic argument – as you did then except in the opposite direction.
It is not.
A classified document is a document that the espionage act would apply to.
No one is arguing that classified documents must be MARKED classified.
However if they are DECLASSIFIED – the EA no longer applies PERIOD.
No document is classified forever.
As I said: YOU are wrong, but you’re not honest enough to admit it.
Because I say so is not an argument.
But lets make this simple.
Are you defining classified as “marked” ?
That is not common use, it is not the laws use, it is not most of the blogs use, but using that meaning – you are correct.
The espionage act does not require anything to be MARKED classified.
It merely requires it to BE classified.
about a decade ago a sailor was prosecuted for taking a picture of the engine room of his nuclear sub.
The engine room is not marked classified – but it is and the sailor knew that. The picture is not marked classified.
But the picture still violated the law – because it was classified.
I had a TS.SCI clearance 2 decades ago. I was a software engineer. If I wrote code or reports based on classified sources – my work was then also classified – even though not marked.
If I created something using my classified knowledge – even if I did that inside my home. My work product was still classified.
All that said if any legitimate declassification authority – including the president just saying – that is no longer classified, declassifies something – it is no longer classified and the transmission of that formerly classified information does not violate the espionage act.
I would note that aside from evrything else – this is the only valid possibility.
Otherwise you have created a crime that people can easily unwittingly commit.
You are trying to create a non-existant provision of the espionage act that makes it a crime to transmit information that you have excellent good faith basis to beleive is not classified. i.e. information that has been declassified.
This is a stupid argument and only left wing not judges would dare try and uphold that.
You would have so many constitutional violations trying to prosequte on your theory.
But then you left wing nuts NEVER think more than at the surface. You never consider – how would my position work if I was the target rather than someone I hate.
One of the reasons that I am increasingly inclinded to support republicans pulling the same idiocy that democrats are doing is that
this nonsense is not going to end until there is a cost.
Until the left has to live under its own rules, or until the courts even the left one get fed up and say enough is enough.
John, Like Anonymous, I don’t see anything in the text of the 3 criminal provisions cited in the warrent that says the records need to to be classified (marked or otherwise). Am I missing something? Thanks.
18 US 793 uses the terminology National Security information. That has the same legal meaning as classified.
If you read any of the Clinton, Bush or Obama EO’s – they make it perfection clear that “classified” encompasses MORE than these laws – not less.
If you doubt that, find an example of anyone ever being prosecuted under 18 US 793 for something that was not classified.
People have been prosecuted for things that were not MARKED classified. A naval cheif was prosecuted for taking a picture of the engine room in his nuclear Sub and sharing it with other chiefs. But he knew that his engine room was classified and did not think about the fact that he could not use a cell phone to take a picture and distribute it to others. He was prosecuted convicted and jailed.
Federal records act violations are not crimes, and that is why they were not used regarding Clinton.
But all of these are going to be a massive problem for DOJ to prosecute.
The Espionage act is about HANDLING – not possession. This is an unusual case – because NORMALLY we can presume that if you are in possession of material that YOU are responsible for ACTING to come into possession of that material.
Deutch took his CIA laptop home. There was no opportunity for him to claim as an example that he went home without it, and an assistant unsolicited brought it to his home for him.
But the opposite is the case here.
First until Biden took the oath of office Trump could have personally taken these documents anywhere perfectly legally.
So it is going to be incredibly hard to find an ACT by Trump that occured AFTER he was president that violates the espionage act.
Read it, it is about acts.
Next, it is unlikely Trump took these documents with him. It is most likely the GSA brought them.
So you have no ACT.
Last – several excellent national security lawyers have asserted – there is obviously something else going on here.
This warrant alleges crimes. Classified documents sitting under lock and key at MAL are not crimes.
A crime would be evidence that Trump was going to sell these to the Saudi’s. No one beleives that.
That is something Hunter Biden would do – for more crack and prostitutes.
Trump lists as one of his major accomplishments that he left the US safer and stronger than he found it.
He is not going to do something that destroys what he is most proud of.
These factors are things those on the left never think of. They never look beyond the surface at anything.
They beleive that everyone they hate is so greedy – no matter how much they already have, that they will act stupidly and destroy everything they have built for a pitance more.
And yet I am clearly not.
You clearly have no understanding of the espionage act.
Can you cite a single instance of a prosecution for violation of the espionage act that ever involved declassified materials ?
Can you cite a single example that did not involve classified materials ?
Do you have any evidence that you can be prosecuted under the espionage act – aside from a collection of legally and historically illiterate law professors, for material that is not classified.
And just to be clear – this is not about MARKED.
Much of the classifed material that Hillary had on her email server was classified but not marked.
Some of it was what is called born classified – documents or information that is by its nature known to everyone to be classified – such as the presidents schedule.
Some of it was information removed from her SCIF and re-entered into unsecured systems without markings.
Finally Hillaries crime was not possession of classified material. It was Removal of classified material from Classified systems to unclassifed ones. And recklessly placing classified material where any hacker could access it.
The Espionage act is not about possession of classified materials. It is about deliberate or reckless actions that defeat the protection of classified material or actively provide it to those who may not have it.
Regardless, almost 2 decades ago I held a TS/SCI clearance while working for a defense contractor.
I had to go through an extensive application process including an FBI background check, as well as days of training.
The same training that Hillary had to take.
If the facts alleged by the FBI were entirely true, and those by Trump entirely false – absent evidence that Trump stole Classified information – i.e. that he walked into the WH AFTER Biden was confirmed and removed classified material (or conspired with someone else to do so) as a private person the worst penalty he would face would be losing his security clearance and probably being fired if he worked for a defense contractor. As a government employee the penalty would be criminal, but small. As a ranking Government employee it would be higher, and if he were active duty military it would be draconian.
Sandy Berger received light punishment for STEALING classified information. CIA Director Deutch would have served a few months in jail for taking massive amounts of highly classified information from his office to his home and leaving it their unattended and unsecured while the director of the CIA – he was pardoned by Clinton before going to jail. But sailors and soldiers have been jailed for years for less consequential offenses.
Absent a DC jury and judge where all bets are off, Trump would not be charged. Because it is not a crime for a person with an appropriate security clearance to possess classified information under conditions that were previously approved.
to have a crime – you must have an act.
ATS posted links he either didn’t read or didn’t understand. That is his standard practice.
Five More Questions about the Mar-A-Lago Raid:
1. Donald Trump removed Merrick Garland from consideration for appointment to the Supreme Court, a lifetime appointment that many would consider to be a dream job. As a result, many recognize that Merrick Garland has a serious conflict of interest. Garland says that he personally signed off on the raid on Mr. Trump’s home. President Biden, why didn’t you remove Merrick Garland from any involvement in the Trump investigation before this happened? Jeff Sessions recused himself for far less.
2. President Biden, did you or your administration foresee the possibility for abuse by Mr. Garland? If not, why not? If you did, why didn’t you act on it before this happened?
3. President Biden, it is true that Mr. Garland signed off on the raid on is own accord, without your knowledge or the knowledge of others in your administration? How do you explain this? Shouldn’t you be calling for Mr. Garland’s resignation?
4. This raid has created a crisis in confidence in your administration and in the DOJ and FBI. How are you planning to address it? Can these institutions be reformed, or do they need to be rebuilt from the ground up?
5. Many Americans are dismayed by what appears to be a double standard in our justice system, especially given the widely disparate treatment given to the allegations of corruption and influence peddling by the Biden family, as compared to over six years of concerted government action against Mr. Trump. Mr. Biden, what do you say to those Americans? What to you say to Americans who are calling for a special counsel to investigate the allegations against you and your family?
By your reasoning, no judge could rule on a Trump case (or, for that matter, a Biden case, or an Obama case, or a Bush case, …) because that President “removed [them] from consideration for appointment to the Supreme Court.” It’s a ludicrous standard.
As for #3, it’s routine in an ethical administration for the DOJ to act independently.
Executive authority is delegated downward from the president it is NOT independent.
We are all rightly suspicious of improper political influence when presidents intervene in the exercise of their delegated authority.
I would further note that independence is no bulwark against political corruption.
“it’s routine in an ethical administration for the DOJ to act independently.”
Gosh, ATS said something that should be true. One would want that but not Biden or Obama.
Uh: Epstein:
1. Mitch McConnell is the one who prevented Merrick Garland from being selected to the SCOTUS. Your hero wasn’t in office at the time.
2. What “abuse happened”? The only abuser was your hero who stole classified documents he had no right to possess, who failed to fully comply with a subpoena to return them and thus forced national security people, via the FBI, to seek a obtain a search warrant and seize the documents. Now, your hero is lying about having created a “standing order” that any classified documents he took are automatically deemed no longer classified. That is: a. a lie–there was no such “standing order” and b. That’s not how documents are declassified. There’s a specific process and paperwork trail that is created. And, once documents are declassified, they are available to the world at large. The documents contain a designation that says “declassified”, which is part of the process. None of the confiscated documents contains this stamp. Just another lie in the long list of lies Trump tells. When it comes to nuclear weapons matters, the DOE must approve any declassification of documents. It has not done so. Trump is lying.
3. Unlike Trump, who doesn’t understand even the basics of how our government works, Joe Biden does not direct, control or get advised about what the DOJ does in carrying out its mission to investigate and prosecute criminals. Joe Biden is not required to “explain” anything that the DOJ does, and for a Trump disciple like you, no explanation would suffice anyway. You’d just tune in to Fox to hear their spin and believe whatever drivel they tell you. No, Merrick Garland should not resign because he did nothing wrong. The one who engaged in wrongdoing was Trump, who stole classified documents, refused to return all of them in response to a subpoena, and then lied about a nonexistent “standing order” to declassify.
4. It wasn’t any “raid”–it was service of a search warrant, issued by a judge who found probable cause that Trump committed crimes by removing classified documents from the White House, based on the sworn testimony of an informant. The information provided was correct–Trump retained classified documents in defiance of the subpoena served on him previously. The only “crisis of confidence” that exists is in the minds of you alt-right news disciples.
5. Most Americans, thank God, are not Trumpsters. There’s no evidence of “corruption or influence peddling” by the Biden family. All of this nonsense was part of the daily Fox slop served up to gullibles like you who fall for it every day. When it’s all said and done, it’s been proven that Trump took classified documents, failed to comply with a subpoena to return them, kept them in an unsecure location at his home where thousands of people have entered for parties, weddings, other gatherings, and who is known to treat our top secrets with a cavalier attitude. His possession of these documents is a crime, and that would be true even if the documents weren’t designated as “classified”. I just hope he hasn’t sold or given the information to Putin or to North Korea. But, I wouldn’t put it past him. That’s why playing the “whataboutism” game is so lame.
1). Correct.
2). We have been over this. Do you have the video of Trump sneaking into the whitehouse after the inarguration and packing up these documents ?
If you do not – this is over – there is no stealing.
NARA was given full access to MAL repeatedly.
FBI was there in May and possibly June.
They were told to take whatever they wanted.
The failure of NARA and FBI to retrieve documents is on them.
Do you have evidence that Trump refused to turn over anything he was required to turn over ?
3). The basics of how our government works:
“The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”
The very first line of the section of the constitution on the executive branch.
Joe Biden does not understand who he shook hands with 5sec ago.
And yet according to the New York Times he is Constantly ranting that Garland must get off his ass an indict Trump.
4). Raid – armed service of a search warrant by large numbers of officers in tactical gear.
If you have any doubt – there is video.
I appologize if you are actually blind.
5). There is much polling on the Hunter Biden debacle – the majority see Biden’s dealings as corrupt.
The also see the media hiding the Biden scandal as corrupt.
The rest of you “points” have all been repeatedly proven false.
I know you’re not a lawyer, so to that extent it isn’t fair, but you should look at Rule 45 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (widely available for free online) that discusses the DUTIES when responding to a subpoena. It says, in relevant part that a subpoena must “….command each person to whom it is directed to do the following at a specified time and place: …produce designated documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things in that person’s possession, custody, or control.” Another part of Rule 45 (e (1)(a)) provides that “a person responding to a subpoena to produce documents must produce them as they are kept in the ordinary course of business or must organize and label them to correspond to the categories in the demand.” The FBI did NOT have a duty to rummage through Mar A Lago to try to locate the materials that were the subject of the subpoena–that duty was Trump’s, so it’s just another Trump lie to say that if everything didn’t get turned over, it’s the fault of the FBI.
Another part of Rule 45 states that a person who has been served with a subpoena may seek to quash a subpoena if it: “…requires disclosure of privileged or other protected matter…”. Trump failed to object or move to quash the subpoena, so his latest claim that there are “privileged documents” included in the materials taken is not timely. Privileged documents were not the subject of the subpoena or search warrant, and if Trump co-mingled privileged materials, that falls on him.
Everything else you say is just alt-right blather. Joe Biden pulled this country out of the worst recession since the Great Depression, got COVID under control, got kids back to school, got businesses opened up again, passed a massive infrastructure bill that will create thousands of good-paying jos, passed the CHIPS act to stimulate domestic computer chip production (which we need due to Trump’s stupid tariffs), got relief for veterans suffering the effects of burn pits, got a bill passed to require corporations with a billion or more in income to pay a minimum tax of 15% and passed the inflation relief act, among other accomplishments.
NO ONE except Trump disciples cares about Hunter Biden.
I am not a lawyer. My Wife is. Further I have appeared representing myself and my businesses in courts many many times over the years. Mostly on small matters, but often large ones.
I have issued innumerable subpeonas and interogatories myself. I have issued subpeonas on law firms for records that were not priviledged.
The rules you cite are honored in breach. Your reading is NOT the real world.
One of the huge problems that you have with subpeonas and discovery is that you are asking your opponent to review their records and decide what it is that you have asked for that they are obligated to provide. And you can guarantee that however clearly you have written your request – they will read it incredibly narrowly. Further while we have not seen the subpeona, we have seen the warrant – and it is obviously constitutionally overbroad. We can expect that more care was given to writing the warrant than the subpeona.
It is near certain that the subpeona was overbroad. And it is likely that is precisely what Trump’s lawyers replied.
The means within the law to resolve competing claims is for the moving party to ask the court to compell.
That process has 3 possible results.
An order to enforce the subpeona as written.
An order that more narrowly defines what the other party is required to produce
Or the court telling the moving party to stuff it.
That is the normal process.
DOJ did not follow that.
You talk about the rules of Civil procedure as if you have participated in their application – I HAVE.
But you clearly speak with no experience.
One of the big fights here is about classifed records.
We have not seen the subpeona, but it likely demanded classified records – it has been reported and is likely true that Trump’s attorney’s responded that THEY had searched and there were no classifed records at MAL.
It is highly unlikely we will see what the FBI is claiming are classifed records they found.
But there are only a few possibilities:
The FBI planted documents – this is why Trump’s attorney’s should have been allowed to observe.
Trump’s attorney’s searched and found none – somehow missing 11.
They found documents that were obviously declassified.
They found the documents that the FBI took and were persuaded that Trump’s claim they were declassified was legally valid.
They lied.
There may be a few other possibilities – but no matter what Trump’s attorney SWORE that they had searched and found nothing.
There are criminal penalties if they lied.
It is highly unlikely they lied. I am sure you do not beleive that. But private attorney’s working at this level are very very good.
They are good at making life difficult for DOJ. But they also are very very careful. Lying to DOJ or FBI as an attorney is a carreer ending move – even if you “win”
Conversely as we have already seen – though this is nothing new – DOJ and FBI attorney’s and agents lie all the time and get away with it. No one is holding them accountable.
This reality has little to do with politics. It has been true forever – whether the DOJ and FBI leaned conservative or progressive.
I strongly suspect that DOJ thought they could do this and keep it quiet.
This warrant was handled differently than Stone or Bannon or Navarro.
The press was not given a heads up. And but for Trump telling the world this was happening while it happened though this likely would have been made public – there would not be video and DOJ would have publicly downplayed it.
Why – because this is going nowhere and they know it.
But by making the raid public while it happened Trump raised the stakes for everyone.
There is now enormous pressure by those like you to prosecute Trump – on a case that is a dead bang loser.
On a case that probably will get dismissed before it gets to court.
DOJ is in a bind – politically they can not back down, and at the same time they really can not go forward.
Further, no one sane wants the precedent this would set if by some miracle they managed to win.
First the entire country will wonder why Clinton is not in jail for life – she had hundreds to Top Secret documents.
But next – president will not be able to take classified material to the east wing to review.
Ex presidents will be terrified that GSA inadvertently (or deliberately) slipped a classified document into their files when they sent them home at the end of the presidents term.
A win would make a thorough mess of the handling of classified documents in the whitehouse – it would be impossible to get anything done.
Do you really think DOJ wants to litigate this and create a bad precedent.
But if they do not – the left will be angry and crying foul. The left’s trust of democrats will be undermined.
And the right will use that as proof the FBI and DOJ are politically corrupt liars.
Fromthe start of Trump’s run for president, the left has been playing Poker with someone who owns and runs casino’s.
You have been betting against the house. You have been betting with a weak hand, against the person to stacked the deck.
You have not understood the greatest Strength Trump has had from the very start. Every single claim you have made about him – He is the one person in the entire US who KNOWS with absolute certainty whether it is true or not.
That is what I mean by Trump stacked the deck – and you are playing poker with him.
You keep thinking – maybe this time we will get him.
But HE KNOWS that you do not actually know the truth – and HE DOES.
He knows when you are bluffing.
Why on earth would you be so stupid to play high stakes poker with someone – when he KNOWS your hand, but you do not know his ?
“But by making the raid public while it happened Trump raised the stakes for everyone.”
John, this shows Trump understands risk and can think quickly on his feet. Actions of this nature are mostly inherent to the individual, not learned. This action is one of the traits that made him a successful President in foreign affairs. It also made him a successful businessman. It did not help him assess the nature of those working under him. That was one of his failures.
“Further, no one sane wants the precedent this would set if by some miracle they managed to win.”
Your discussion that followed is excellent. It is logic-based, absent emotion. You respond very well in this area of discussion.
You may be correct about Trump.
But I would suggest a different explanation.
You and I do not know the Truth.
Svelaz does not know the truth.
But Trump actually does. Even the FBI’s claim that Trump committed a crime – requires that Trump KNOWS he has classified documents.
In every single conflict with Trump the left has engaged in – one advantage Trump has ALWAYS had is that he KNOWS the truth.
It is unfortunate today that is often not sufficient. But it is still a massive advantage.
There is no obligation to move to quash a subpeona.
I have subpeona’d people.
They have responded with what they wanted to give me – not what I asked, and essentially told me to pound sand over the rest.
The did not move to quash. They tried to push me into moving to compell.
Your timeliness argument is nonsense.
Trump did not provide privileged material to FBI or NARA. He is NEVER obligated to.
If DOJ/FBI asked for privileged material – Trump need not move to Quash. He can refuse to provide it.
You clearly have never been in the real world – and you do not understand the rules of procedure that you are selectively citing.
I find it interesting that you are arguing that the DOJ should be entitled to priviledged material – because according to YOU Trump did not dot his eyes and cross his T’s.
That is a pretty immoral argument. It is also the reverse of our legal system. The burden of proof is always on the plantif or the prosecutor.
Defendants are presumed innocent.
You are essentially saying that it is OK with you that DOJ is games the rules to get everything that Trump and his lawyers communicate about. But you would not ever support Trump getting the internal communications of DOJ.
The right of priviledge exists for defendants.
While prosecutors do not have rights.
I find your moral foundations very poor.
MY wife resigned a clerkship for a federal judge – a prestigious one. Because the elderly judge did not give a $hit about a major case that she was handling and he told her to decide the case and write the opinion.
It is likely she could have done a far better job than he.
But she was a clerk and not a federal judge appointed by the president and confirmed by congress.
It was unethical for her to act as the judge – even if he ordered her to.
So she resigned.
That was a long time ago. But I am incredibly proud of her.
It harmed us financially, and we were afraid it would make it hard for her to get a job.
Pissing off a federal judge is a really big deal.
This is how actually ethical people behave.
Quit trying to game the rules to get the outcome you want.
Start questioning your own certainty about what is true.
And remember the most rights you have are the most rights you give those you hate.
That is true whether you hate immigrants or poor people or minorities
It is true if you hate republicans or the rich or Trump.
“It’s the [Advice and Consent], stupid!”
– James Carville
_____________
Mitch McConnell is distinctly NOT “…the one who prevented Merrick Garland from being selected to the SCOTUS.”
Mitch McConnell is the one who, in fact, accurately and comprehensively fulfilled all requirements of the Constitution and provided the Advice and Consent of the Senate.
The fact that Mitch McConnell provided the necessary Advice and Consent of the Senate has never been legally challenged by any concerned and serious entity.
Please read for your edification below:
______________________________
Article 2, Section 2
The President…shall…nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint…Judges of the supreme Court,….
I’m told that investigators are now focusing on Trump’s failure to leak the classified documents to the New York Times, which is the accepted procedure in these matters.
We will punish our ENEMIES and reward our friends. And this is how you do it, with consent never ending battles, but who will win the war?
+100
When Trump runs again in 2024, I think a good VP choice would be Marjorie Taylor Green. Now this should give the dims high blood pressure. I can see the veins popping now.
She has bigger balls than most other Congress critters.
She has a smaller brain than most and literally NO shame or scruples whatsoever. She is an ignorant hillbilly who doesn’t even have sense enough to cover her fat, lumpy upper arms, or to keep up on her bleach job. She is a joke and makes the citizens of Georgia look bad.
Natacha, talking about Maxine Waters that way makes you sound like a racist.
“She is an ignorant hillbilly who doesn’t even have sense enough to cover her fat, lumpy upper arms, or to keep up on her bleach job”
Nutacha, you have opened the window into your soul, and it is a pretty nasty place.
“IN MY OPINION”
NUTCHACHACHA is inferior and it eats at her constantly.
NUTCHACHACHA is precisely the same as the wackjob African teacher who berated the “Mexican murderer” who “would never be white” in the traffic stop video.
NUTCHACHACHA will never be ________ (fill in the blank).
No, no, neva, neva, uh, uh, uh!!!!
It’s a complex; a debilitating complex.
It is truly tragic that the citizens of Georgia are represented by such a loser: she chased a school shooting survivor down a Washington street and accused him of being paid by the anti-NRA lobby of lying after he testified; she claimed that “jewish space lasers” started California wildfires”; she went to AOC’s office, banged on the door, demanded that AOC “change her diaper” and come out to debate with her in front of cameras. These are just a few examples of her bizzare and unprofessional conduct–not opinions. She is a disgrace. It’s not a matter of a difference of opinion about political matters. She doesn’t know how to dress or conduct herself with the dignity and decorum commensurate with being a member of Congress.
The people of GA are entitle to the representative they want.
Just as the people of the Bronx are.
As bad a choice as those from GA may have made – those in the Bronx have chosen far worse.
Why does your opinion of who should represent the people of GA matter ?
You have your own congressmen. You can vote to elect them or someone else. That is your right.
That is the only congress person where your opinion really matters.
Why are you so insistent that you should be able to tell others what choices they must make ?
This is what is wrong with the left.
Someone once said any publicity is good publicity. We’ll the dims have certainly kept Donald Trump in the spotlight.
Two months before his Florida home was raided by the FBI, former President Donald Trump secretly received a grand jury subpoena for classified documents belonging to the National Archives, and voluntarily cooperated by turning over responsive evidence, surrendering security surveillance footage and allowing federal agents and a senior Justice Department lawyer to tour his private storage locker, according to a half dozen people familiar with the incident. While the cooperation was mostly arranged by his lawyers, Trump personally surprised the DOJ National Security Division prosecutor and three FBI agents who came to his Mar-a-Lago compound on June 3, greeting them as they came to pick up a small number of documents compliant with the subpoena, the sources told Just the News, speaking only on condition of anonymity because the visit was covered by grand jury secrecy. He subpoenas requested any remaining documents Trump possessed with any classification markings, even if they involved photos of foreign leaders, correspondence or mementos from his presidency. Secret Service agents were also present and facilitated the visit, officials said.
He clearly didn’t turn over all “remaining documents he possessed with any classification markings,” which is why the manifest includes boxes of classified material.
Several people have addressed all this nonsense before.
There is no legal duty of the president with respect to classified documents ever.
We are now finding out that not only did both Obama and Bush do exactly as Trump, but that there are Executive orders by each of them still in effect exempting both the president and vice president from all classified document handling requirements.
Trump is saying that he has a standing order declassifying anything he took to MAL or into the WH residence.
Others are confirming that and that taking classified documents to presidential homes or the respidence of the WH by presidence is routine – and Defacto declassifies them.
But that is only the start. The next problem is how did these documents come to be in boxes at MAL.
If Trump personally took them with him on J18th, 2021 – they are declassified.
If the GSA took them from the WH residence and took them to MAL they are declassified.
If GSA took them from secure areas of the WH and transported them to MAL inadvertently – they remain classified.
BUT the responsibility for them is with the GSA not Trump. You can not hold Trump criminally responsible for mistakes by the GSA.
There is really no legal theory that is not made of thin air and will not have myriads of examples of other former president running afoul of repeatedly that will get you to criminal conduct on the part of Trump short of sneaking back to the WH on Jan 21, 2021 and stealing classified documents.
Another fantast who thinks that Trump lugged documents in a handcart back and forth from the WH to MAL all by himself.
In a Jeffrey Toobin-style celebration of Palm Sunday, Merrwreck Garland fantasizes that the Mar-a-Lago raid went more like this:
“All I have in this world is my balls and my word. And I don’t break ’em for no one.”–Tony Montana
“I have neither.”–Merrwreck Garland
Training Day.
This was for personal jolly’s and to jazz up the base.
AG Merrick Garland: “No person is above the law” (7/20/22)
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: “No persion is above the low (8/9/22)
When Hillary Clinton was running her 1st presidential campaign in 2008, she had a private server installed at her home in Chappaqua, NY The domains clintonemail.com, wjcoffice.com, and presidentclinton.com, were registered to “Eric Hoteham” (maybe a typo,as Eric Hotham was an aide to her).
While serving as Secretary of State (2009-2013) under President Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton didn’t have a .gov e-mail address but used multiple private email servers to communicate. She began using the email address hdr22@clintonmail.com, which.was first discovered in 2012, by a House committee investigating the attack on the American Consulate in Benghazi. Her aides did not take any actions to preserve the emails sent through her personal account. This prompted an investigation by the FBI to determine if Clinton intentionally put classified information at risk. Clinton handed over 30,000 emails to the State Department (there were also concerns that she deleted the same amount previously), of which 110 contained classified information at the time they either were sent or received, according to the FBI’s findings.Iimplications has been
1. potential threat to national security
2. lack of transparency (see Federal Records Act)
3. limiting public access to government records (see Freedom of Information Act)
Although NSA requested that Secretary Clinton use a secure “Sectra Edge”, but she used her personal BlackBerry instead. Her mobiles were physically destroyed by her staff.
In 2013, “Platte River Networks” (Denver, CO) was hired to manage the server, but wasn’t cleared to work with classified information.
After Hillary Clinton announced her 2nd bid for the Precidency on 4/12/15, her use of private email servers while serving as Secretary of State went viral. In 8/15 ICIG Charles McCullogh sent a referral (focused on whether classified information was transmitted on that personal system) to FBI and an formal investigation started. On 7/5/16 then Director James B Comey informed the press [1] that the FBI recomend to DoJ: No charges are appropriate (“no intension”), Some days early former President Bill Clinton met then AG Loretta Lynch on the tarmac of Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport at random. They claimed her 20 min chit-chat was mainly about grand-kids, travel and golf but not about DoJ matters. On 7/716 Lynn closed the case.
While mainstream media defended this decission (Espionage Act 1917 is an outdated legislation) this time it goes the other way. However, President Trum had classification authority as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton did not.
.
[1] https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
I grew up in a home of a World War II veteran who served in the south pacific. My late father-in-law was a Purple Heart D-Day infantrymen. My aunt, an Army officer and field nurse and two uncles were Purple Heart recipients as well as one who was a POW. I learned deep respect for this nation. None of them are alive, thankfully to see the cesspool that Washington D.C. and much of our media have become. We have sunk to a new low. There is no way they could understand. It is nothing shy of bizarre and malevolent.
There was absolutely zero reason for a raid of the personal home of a former President of the United States, holder of the most powerful office in the world. Why now? It has now been 20 months. Why a KGB style raid? His legal team was working voluntarily with officials to sort out and give the documents they requested. It is not like the President packs his own office. Those not yet finalized we’re put under additional security by the Secret Service.
This is a propaganda smear campaign by the same club of actors who brought us Russia collusion, Impeachment part I, Impeached part Ii and now The latest version of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, signed off by a judge who had recused himself due to bias on 22 June 2022 from sitting on a case involving the former President vs Hillary Clinton, et al.
It is bizarre but it is much worse. This is deliberate and destructive of precedent and decorum due to our former President.
This should worry any person who espouses civil liberty.
First of all, it was NOT a raid–it was service of a valid search warrant, which Trump forced the FBI to obtain when he intentionally withheld classified documents previously subpoenaed. His “legal team” was NOT “working with” anyone. An informant tipped the FBI that Trump was holding out classified documents, and that’s why it was necessary to seek a court ordered search warrant. It turned out that the informant was correct–Trump hadn’t turned over all of the things that the grand jury subpoenaed. Trump was never going to turn over classified documents. Now, he’s lying about a nonexistent “standing order” that anything he takes becomes automatically “declassified”. That’s not how it works–there’s a specific process to declassify documents, which creates a paper trail that doesn’t exist. He just made up that lie when he got caught being in possession of documents he had to right to have. That’s why I am stunned when disciples like you speak of the “decorum” or call that election-cheater “President”. His name doesn’t belong in the same breath as Lincoln, Washington, FDR, JFK or even the Bushes.
Answer me this question: what valid reason is there for citizen Trump to possess classified documents, including those pertaining to nuclear weapons? Trump became a private citizen at noon on January 20, 2021, at which point he had no greater rights than the rest of us to possess classified documents.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/
Expand your thinking. let the sun shine In…enjoy the show
Two months before his Florida home was raided by the FBI, former President Donald Trump secretly received a grand jury subpoena for classified documents belonging to the National Archives, and voluntarily cooperated by turning over responsive evidence, surrendering security surveillance footage and allowing federal agents and a senior Justice Department lawyer to tour his private storage locker, according to a half dozen people familiar with the incident. While the cooperation was mostly arranged by his lawyers, Trump personally surprised the DOJ National Security Division prosecutor and three FBI agents who came to his Mar-a-Lago compound on June 3, greeting them as they came to pick up a small number of documents compliant with the subpoena, the sources told Just the News, speaking only on condition of anonymity because the visit was covered by grand jury secrecy. He subpoenas requested any remaining documents Trump possessed with any classification markings, even if they involved photos of foreign leaders, correspondence or mementos from his presidency. Secret Service agents were also present and facilitated the visit, officials said. MY QUESTION IS IF THERE WERE DOCUMENTS THERE, WHY DIDN’T THEY GET IT ALL WITH THE GRAND JURY SUBPEONA???? THEY DIDN’T ALL OF A SUDDEN APPEAR, THIS IS ANOTHER TYPICAL FBI, DEEP STATE ATTEMPT TO INCRIMINATE PRESIDENT TRUMP!!! IT JUST GOES ON AND ON AND ON JUST LIKE THE RUSSIAN HOAX COME TO FIND OUT HILLARY CLINTON WAS THE RUSSIAN ASSET!!! WILL THEY EVER STOP THIS DOG AND PONY SHOW OF THEIRS?????
Here’s what’s wriong with your theory about the FBI being to blame for classified documents remaining at Mar A Lago after the subpoena was served: there was a confidential informant who tipped the FBI that Trump was holding onto classified documents and failed to turn them all over in response to the subpoena. He or she told the FBI where to find them. And, there may still be some more of them squirreled away at Mar A Lago.
I want one of you Trumpsters to explain to me any valid reason why Trump would retain classified documents. And, the documents ARE classified. Trump cannot wave a magic wand and say that everything he took became declassified by virtue of his taking them. There’s a paper trail created when documents are declassified. No such paper trail exists.
Donald Trump is under federal criminal investigation on suspicion of having violated not only the Presidential Records Act, but additional federal statutes as well.
The DOJ search warrant reveals the federal crimes Donald Trump was accused of committing by the Dept. of Justice in seeking a search warrant from a federal magistrate.
I contend these are some of the same federal crimes a federal grand jury will indict Trump on:
Trump’s Federal Crimes: 1) ESPIONAGE 2) OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE 3) UNLAWFUL REMOVAL/DESTRUCTION OF RECORDS
18 U.S. Code § 793 – Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information
18 U.S. Code § 1505 – Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
18 U.S. Code § 2071 – Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
44 U.S. Code § 3106 – Unlawful removal, destruction of records
It is highly likely that Donald Trump will soon be indicted in state and federal courts.
I predict Trump will be indicted next month by a Fulton County grand jury on election law violations.
I predict Trump will be indicted by the Dept. of Justice by the end of this year, possibly by Christmas.
I’m telling you if the DOJ sought and acquired a criminal search warrant to search your house for classified documents and found classified documents you previously told the DOJ that you no longer had in your possession, there is a 100% chance of you being indicted by the DOJ for federal records crimes.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
DEBUNKING TRUMP’S DEFENSE CLAIMS AND REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS
1) Trump claims he was in legal possession of the U.S. government documents confiscated;
None of those U.S. government records belong to Donald Trump.
There is hardly any circumstance which permits former President Donald Trump to be in physical, lawful possession of unclassified or classified U.S. government documents at his residence.
Historically, U.S. Presidents do not remove U.S. government documents from the White House.
If a former President wants to write his memoirs and wants to review classified documents to refresh his memory, official protocol and processes for such a request by a former President does exist.
2) Trump claims he already declassified all the documents in question;
This is not the first time Donald Trump lied about his ability to declassify U.S. government documents.
In 2020 President Trump lied about his ability to declassify U.S. government documents when Trump tweeted out to his supporters and the world that he had declassified all the Russia documents in the Mueller investigation.
“I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!” Trump tweeted.
He followed that up less than an hour later, tweeting: “All Russia Hoax Scandal information was Declassified by me long ago. Unfortunately for our Country, people have acted very slowly, especially since it is perhaps the biggest political crime in the history of our Country. Act!!!”
The DOJ informed a federal judge that President Trump lied when Trump claimed and tweeted that he had declassified all the Russia documents in the Mueller investigation.
Trump remains unable to produce a single document, receipt or note(s) related to President Trump declassifying ANY DOCUMENT DURING HIS FOUR YEAR ADMIN.
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/doj-admits-to-federal-court-that-trump-lied-to-his-supporters-on-twitter-about-declassifying-all-russia-docs/
First of all, when it comes to declassifying U.S. gov’t documents related to U.S. nuclear secrets, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DECLASSIFYING U.S. NUCLEAR SECRETS.
No one, not even a U.S. President can declassify U.S. government nuclear secrets.
Despite what Republicans claim, the President cannot wave his hand over a set of documents and magically make those documents declassified.
There are no “Presidential declassification wands.”
That’s not how U.S. government declassification processes work.
Every Congressperson and Senator are painfully aware of U.S. government record-keeping requirements, protocols, federal laws and declassification processes.
If a Congressperson or Senator walked out of a SCIF with classified documents, they would get a visit from a U.S. government agent by dinnertime and would be arrested.
Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF) – An area, room, group of rooms, buildings, or installation certified and accredited as meeting Director of National Intelligence security standards for the processing, storage, and/or discussion of sensitive compartmented information (SCI).
3) Republicans and Trump claim the FBI planted false incriminating evidence against Trump;
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the FBI planted evidence at Mar-a-Lago. Trump and Republicans have nothing but desperate, outrageous defensive claims left.
4) Trump claimed that President Obama unlawfully kept millions of classified documents at his residence;
The National Archives and Records Administration debunked Trump’s wild claim against Obama.
– – – – – – – – – – – –
Agents at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago seized 11 sets of classified documents, unsealed filing shows.
The newly-unsealed search warrant for Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club lists potential crimes including mishandling defense information and destruction of records.
The search warrant lists potential crimes including mishandling defense information and destruction of records
The FBI search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida home earlier this week found four sets of top-secret documents, and seven other sets of less-secret but still classified information, according to a list of items seized in the high-profile raid and unsealed by a federal magistrate judge on Friday.
The written inventory — a document provided by investigators after a search — says the FBI took about 20 boxes of items from the Mar-a-Lago Club on Monday, including photo binders, information about the president of France, and a variety of classified material.
One set of documents is listed as “Various classified TS/SCI documents,” a reference to top secret/sensitive compartmented information, one of the more closely-held forms of top-secret information. In addition to the four sets of top-secret papers, agents also took three sets of documents classified as secret, and three sets of papers classified as confidential — the lowest level of classification.
The warrant signed by a federal magistrate judge authorized FBI agents to search Trump’s office and any “storage rooms and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by [the former president] and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate.”
The warrant said it is seeking all “physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of three potential crimes, including a part of the Espionage Act outlawing gathering, transmitting, or losing national defense information.” The warrant also cites destruction of records and concealment or mutilation of government material. The contents of the warrant and the inventory were first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
The status of key investigations involving former president Donald Trump
The Washington Post reported Thursday that FBI agents who carried out the search at Mar-a-Lago were looking for classified documents about nuclear weapons, among other items, according to people familiar with the investigation. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing case and did not offer additional details, such as whether the documents involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation.
Experts in classified information said the highly unusual search of a former president’s residence underscores deep concern among government officials about the types of information they thought could be located at Mar-a-Lago and potentially in danger of falling into the wrong hands.
In a statement early Friday, Trump called the nuclear weapons issue a “hoax” and suggested the FBI planted evidence, without offering information to indicate such a thing had happened. Trump said agents did not allow his lawyers to be present for the search, which is not unusual in a law enforcement operation, especially if it potentially involves classified items. A second statement by the former president claimed his predecessor, Barack Obama, kept sensitive documents. “How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots!” Trump wrote.
The warrant was made public a day after Attorney General Merrick Garland announced that the Justice Department wanted it unsealed, insisting that officials had scrupulously followed the rules of federal investigations in executing the search and that the public had a right to see the document authorizing them to do so.
Hours after Garland’s announcement, Trump posted on social media that he supported unsealing the documents. He or his lawyers could have shared them anytime since receiving them days ago.
Typically, search warrants speak in broad terms about what is to be searched, the purpose of the search, and the possible crimes being investigated. When the search is completed, investigators provide a list of property seized, but that also tends to be a general description of items, such as papers or boxes, without describing the particulars of what they contain. For most search warrants, the most detailed description of investigators’ suspicions and what they expect to find are provided in an affidavit from the agent requesting the warrant.
In this case, neither the government nor Trump proposed releasing the affidavit, which is likely to contained far more information about the case. But several news organizations have made that request, and the judge overseeing the case has given the government until 5 p.m. Monday to respond to their motions.
The court-approved search of Trump’s caused a political furor, with Trump and many of his Republican defenders accusing the FBI of acting out of politically motivated malice. Some have threatened the agency on social media, and on Thursday, an armed man stormed the security entrance at the FBI building in Cincinnati. Police pursued him and he was eventually shot and killed by police. Authorities are investigating his possible ties to extremist groups, including the Proud Boys.
The Justice Department’s investigation into the Mar-a-Lago documents began months ago, when the National Archives and Records Administration sought the return of material taken there from the White House. Fifteen boxes of documents and items, some of them marked classified.
This spring, Trump’s team received a grand jury subpoena in connection with the documents investigations, two people familiar with the investigation, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details, confirmed to The Post on Thursday. Investigators visited Mar-a-Lago in the weeks following the issuance of the subpoena, and Trump’s team handed over some materials.
People familiar with the probe have said it is focused on whether the former president or his aides withheld classified or other government material that should have been returned to government custody earlier. The people, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation, said that as authorities engaged in months of discussions on the subject, some officials came to suspect the Trump team was not being truthful.
Material about nuclear weapons is especially sensitive and usually restricted to a small number of government officials, experts have said. Publicizing details about U.S. weapons could provide an intelligence road map to adversaries seeking to build ways of countering those systems. And other countries might view exposing their nuclear secrets as a threat, experts said.
A federal judge in the Southern District of Florida has unsealed documents related to Monday’s search of former President Donald Trump’s estate at Mar-a-Lago.
The move comes after the Department of Justice on Thursday asked the court to unseal the search warrant, attachments only called A and B, and the property receipt detailing what was seized during the search.
Trump announced the search himself, but the Justice Department did not speak publicly about the matter until Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the motion to unseal on Thursday.
Trump posted on his proprietary social media platform late Thursday night, “Not only will I not oppose the release of documents related to the un-American, unwarranted, and unnecessary raid and break-in of my home in Palm Beach, Florida, Mar-a-Lago, I am going a step further by encouarging the immediate release of those documents.”
Several major news organizations also have intervened to support unsealing the search warrant and related documents. They include the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, CBS, NBC, and the USA TODAY Network’s Palm Beach Post, among others.
I predìct no one will read this stupid comment including me.
You predicted correctly.
Pam, talk about taking all the air out of the room.
Pam, I wish you had placed your comment before the one written by Studio. I read what he wrote, and it is clear that he is filling all his gaps of knowledge with BS. He must think that when Trump went to MAL he used a handcart by himself and lugged the documents to MAL all by himself. Studio is calling the FBI and NARA incompetent because they were both there multiple times to remove the needed documents. One time should be enough.
It appears the left has sent in reinforcements, but he shot all his bullets and never hit the target. All he can do now is repeat his useless claims.
Thank you for your warning that I wish I heeded.
Everything Studio wrote in his/her wonderfully written and detailed piece above is THE TRUTH. You Trumpsters have been deluded into believing lies, and when confronted with the truth, attack the source. As of noon on Jan 20, 2021, Donald J. Trump became citizen Trump, at which point he had no greater right to possess classified information than anyone else. I want one of you Trumpsters to give me any innocent explanation as to why Trump would want to keep classified documents, even after receiving a subpoena, OTHER THAN to brag about them, display them to people, or, possibly, sell the information they contain to Russia, China, Iran or North Korea.
Trump got caught failing to comply with a subpoena. The FBI was tipped off that Trump was holding out and even where they could find the missing documents. Now, he’s lying about a nonexistent “standing order” to declassify which does not, and cannot exist because there’s a paper trail created when documents are declassified, and nuclear documents are NEVER declassified. Why can’t you see the truth?
“Everything Studio wrote in his/her wonderfully written and detailed piece above is THE TRUTH.”
I believe you. You think it is the truth, but when have you ever been able to participate in an intellectual discussion based on facts and logic? I don’t think that has ever happened.
Are you calling NARA and the FBI incompetent like Anonymous the Stupid did? They have had access to MAL multiple times so if they couldn’t find what didn’t belong in MAL the second time, maybe you should blame them. Trump has the right to keep documents but on June 3 permitted the FBI to do what they felt they needed to do. The FBI even put another lock on the storage room, and I don’t think they had prior authorization to do so, but Trump permitted and even told them he would help in any way he could.
Nothing in MAL was illegal and Trump complied with the subpoena.
Please see my comment above to John Say, in which I lay out verbatim Rule 45 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. The duty to respond to a subpoena falls on the recipient, who must produce them as they are kept in the normal course of business, or if it’s not a business, then organize and label them to correspond to each category listed in the subpoena. The FBI did not have any duty to rummage through Mar A Lago to try to find documents. That’s just another Trump lie. And, Trump and/or his lawyer, LIED about turning over all of them in June, based on a tip from an informant, which necessitated the search warrant. Trump has NO right to possess classified documents.
Natacha, why do you expect people to explain to you rule 45 in relationship to the raid on MAL. You have been provided with loads of explanations for virtually everything you have said. Despite the efforts of many intelligent people you run away only to produce the same stupidity over and over again. Our last engagement ended the same way.
http://wondermark.com/1k62/
Nutacha, it is quite clear that you have no experience with courts and subpeona’s and that you do not understand the rules and process that you only partly cite.
I have barely responded to that post – because it is pretty much wrong from end to end.
Go get yourself a text on civil procedure.
Read it.
Then read it 5 more times.
And quit trying to figure out how to game the process to get the outcome you want.
Our justice system is adversarial specifically because so many like you exist on both sides. For whom the ends justify the means.
Courts allow both sides to make their arguments before making decisions – to insulate themselves a little from these biases.
They are also inherently conservative – being very careful about deviating from centuries of practice that – even if imperfect has obviously worked to try something knew that there is no reason to beleive will work.
Because you are clueless.
When a person decides to write a lot of words without dealing with the facts, one knows he is selling snake oil. Too many obvious errors in the piece to correct, so one need not deal with the specifics. One can see an example of intelligent discussion from Nick @ https://jonathanturley.org/2022/08/12/trump-calls-for-release-of-warrant-as-controversy-comes-to-a-head-at-mar-a-lago/comment-page-5/#comment-2212884 provides reality. If Studio wants to deal with the facts, let him go one by one and stop trying to hide behind a mound of useless words.
Comrade General Secretary, tell us how you really feel about Real President Donald J. Trump’s destruction of the Deep Deep State Swamp.
One may presume you are against it.
Trump is under investigation for anything democrats can make up because he is a thorn in their side.
The entire planet knows that.
This is unbelievable stupid on the part of Democrats.
If you win – you lose.
If you lose you lose.
Republicans are 99.99% certain to retake the house in 2022. It would require a miracle to flip that.
the RCP certain republicans seats are already significantly over a majority.
They could lose every tossup and still have a bigger majority than democrats now.
It is increasingly likely they will win back the senate – even though 2022 structurally favors democrats in the senate.
Trump is currently polling +5 over Biden for 2024. Even DeSantis is polling ahead of Biden.
There is no significant democratic candidate for 2024.
Take out Trump you get DeSantis.
Regardless, this stupidity has unified republicans, and independents are moving right.
Likely speaker MacCarthy has put DOJ on notice – they are getting grilled come January.
In every possible way democrats have politically weaponized everything they can get their hands on.
Do you expect republicans to behave better ?
It’s time for a fun exercise in intellectual integrity. Let’s imagine that a violent gang of liberal Democrats attacked our national capitol, caused five deaths, desecrated a national landmark building, and attempted to overturn the results of an election. And then their deposed President got caught removed classified material from the White House. I wonder how the Right would respond to that set of circumstances?
Let’s imagine that a violent gang of liberal Democrats attacked our national capitol, caused five deaths, desecrated a national landmark building,…
You’re talking about the 2020 summer of love right? No imagination needed. But it wasn’t just DC. It cut a wide swath across the nation and 100’s were murdered. Prominate elected Democrats spent $thousands to bail out the anarchists.
The yes they would likely ask where the 2 billion went. And why the did had so many paranoid schizophrenia on the pay roll. Then they’d ask why Carlyle gets a pass…to the point an exemption per Shaun to comply with etics…Then look at the 2008 summit and at admiral Fallon of the navy who said your ears are vs and walked with the suitcase. If I were in the chi I’d be looking there ….not at the red herrings.
Where is my reply? Too much truth for ya al!
2 people were killed on J6 not 5. Both protestors, and both murdered by police.
Angry mobs of lefties have descended on the capital all the time.
Not ONCE have they been locked out.
Not Once have they been held for more than a few hours.
One lefty took an axe to a senators door. DOJ recently returned the axe – no charges filed.
attempting to overturn an election is perfectly legal.
Hillary is STILL fighting over 2016. She and other democrats sought and succeeded in geting electors to change their votes.
Democrats objected to certification.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/electoral-college-vote-objections/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/06/congress-certify-trumps-victory-friday-challengers-grasp-straws/96218660/
What does it take for left wing nuts to quit pretending that normal politics is a crime.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-01-06/congress-certifies-donald-trumps-election-over-democrats-protests
“Let’s imagine that a violent gang of liberal Democrats attacked our national capitol, caused five deaths, desecrated a national landmark building, and attempted to overturn the results of an election”
We do not need to imagine it.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/19/politics/trump-inauguration-protests-womens-march/index.html
Comments from Donald Trump
“Number one, it was all declassified,” he wrote on Truth Social. “Number two, they didn’t need to ‘seize’ anything. They could have had it anytime they wanted without playing politics and breaking into Mar-a-Lago. It was in secured storage, with an additional lock put on as per their request. They could have had it anytime they wanted—and that includes LONG ago. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS ASK. The bigger problem is, what are they going to do with the 33 million pages of documents, many of which are classified, that President Obama took to Chicago?”
““Planting information anyone? Reminds me of a Christofer [sic] Steele Dossier!” the former president said. “
“Nuclear weapons issue is a Hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia was a Hoax, two Impeachments were a Hoax, the Mueller investigation was a Hoax, and much more,”
“Same sleazy people involved. Why wouldn’t the FBI allow the inspection of areas at Mar-a-Lago with our lawyer’s [sic], or others, present. Made them wait outside in the heat, wouldn’t let them get even close – said ‘ABSOLUTELY NOT’.”
All Trump’s comments are true especially the sleazy part which is now a feature of the Democrat Party along with the left.
I have spent 43 years in the IC. One point that everyone is missing: when Trump was president His residence was certified as a SCIF. Alarms, combination locks, etc. the nuclear codes were stored there. Former presidents always retain their security clearance and have access to the PDB. Bush Senior would read the PDB until shortly before his death. The former President is surrounded by federal agents 24/7, there are few more secure environments that the home of a former president. Apart from the presidents authority to declassify as the nation’s preeminent classification authority it is completely incredible that any classified information in Trumps possession was at risk of compromise.
Well said!
First of all, Mar-a-Lago was NOT a SCIF by no stretch of your imagination.
You neatly avoided the fact that when the DOJ asked Trump and his lawyers to turn over all U.S. gov’t documents to the DOJ last May, Trump did not give all the boxes of documents.
TRump initially gave 14 boxes then insisted he had no more boxes or U.S. gov’t documents. After the informant notified the FBI about additional U.S. gov’t docs at Mar-a-Lago, the FBI confiscated 11 more boxes of U.S. gov’t boxes.
The DOJ informed Trump and his lawyers that Mar-a-Lago was NOT secure facility for storing U.S. gov’t documents.
Trump claims he already declassified all the documents in question;
This is not the first time Donald Trump lied about his ability to declassify U.S. government documents.
In 2020 President Trump lied about his ability to declassify U.S. government documents when Trump tweeted out to his supporters and the world that he had declassified all the Russia documents in the Mueller investigation.
“I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!” Trump tweeted.
He followed that up less than an hour later, tweeting: “All Russia Hoax Scandal information was Declassified by me long ago. Unfortunately for our Country, people have acted very slowly, especially since it is perhaps the biggest political crime in the history of our Country. Act!!!”
The DOJ informed a federal judge that President Trump lied when Trump claimed and tweeted that he had declassified all the Russia documents in the Mueller investigation.
Trump remains unable to produce a single document, receipt or note(s) related to President Trump declassifying ANY DOCUMENT DURING HIS FOUR YEAR ADMIN.
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/doj-admits-to-federal-court-that-trump-lied-to-his-supporters-on-twitter-about-declassifying-all-russia-docs/
First of all, when it comes to declassifying U.S. gov’t documents related to U.S. nuclear secrets, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DECLASSIFYING U.S. NUCLEAR SECRETS.
No one, not even a U.S. President can declassify U.S. government nuclear secrets.
Despite what Republicans claim, the President cannot wave his hand over a set of documents and magically make those documents declassified.
There are no “Presidential declassification wands.”
That’s not how U.S. government declassification processes work.
Every Congressperson and Senator are painfully aware of U.S. government record-keeping requirements, protocols, federal laws and declassification processes.
If a Congressperson or Senator walked out of a SCIF with classified documents, they would get a visit from a U.S. government agent by dinnertime and would be arrested.
Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF) – An area, room, group of rooms, buildings, or installation certified and accredited as meeting Director of National Intelligence security standards for the processing, storage, and/or discussion of sensitive compartmented information (SCI).
Supposedly the president can’t institute a nuclear strike by himself. The president use to have what looked like a credit card and the military officer that had possession of the briefcase had the second “credit card”. They would run both of their cards through at the same time. Without both cards there is no nuclear strike. Remember when Bill Clinton was president, he lost his card and it was missing for 3 days. Nothing to see here folks, just move along.
Do you think that no one knows how to use Google ?
Here is just the first instance I found easily of Trump ORDERING the declassification of documents.
Are you saying CNN is lying ?
Massive amounts of time are wasted on this blog schooling left wing nuts with respect to trivially verifiable FACTS.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/17/politics/donald-trump-declassify-documents/index.html
And more trump orders to declassify
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-gives-ag-barr-authority-to-declassify-documents-related-to-2016-campaign-surveillance
And again.
Please learn to use google.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-authorizes-declassification-of-all-russia-collusion-hillary-clinton-email-probe-documents
“Every Congressperson and Senator are painfully aware of U.S. government record-keeping requirements, protocols, federal laws and declassification processes.”
That would be false – they do not apply to congress.
From Obama’s 2009 EO on Classified documents.
Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations. (a) In no case shall information be classified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.
EO provisions for reclassification
(c) Information may be reclassified after declassification and release to the public under proper authority only in accordance with the following conditions:
(1) the reclassification action is taken under the personal authority of the agency head or deputy agency head, who determines in writing that the reclassification of the information is necessary in the interest of the national security;
(2) the information may be reasonably recovered; and
(3) the reclassification action is reported promptly to the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office.
More from EO – Government is barred from retribution for challenging claims that something is classified
You have NARA, FBI, DOJ and Garland violating Obama’s EO.
(b) In accordance with implementing directives issued pursuant to this order, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish procedures under which authorized holders of information are encouraged and expected to challenge the classification of information that they believe is improperly classified or unclassified. These procedures shall ensure that:
(1) individuals are not subject to retribution for bringing such actions;
(2) an opportunity is provided for review by an impartial official or panel; and
(3) individuals are advised of their right to appeal agency decisions to the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel (Panel) established by section 5.3 of this order.
Sorry I am citing the Bush 2003 EO not the Obama one
Regardless, Former presidents have access to classified materials without a need to know.
Sec. 4.4. Access by Historical Researchers and Certain Former Government Personnel. (a) The requirement in section 4.1(a)(3) of this order that access to classified information may be granted only to individuals who have a need-to-know the information may be waived for persons who:
(1) are engaged in historical research projects;
(2) previously have occupied policy-making positions to which they were appointed by the President under section 105(a)(2)(A) of title 3, United States Code, or the Vice President under 106(a)(1)(A) of title 3, United States Code; or
(3) served as President or Vice President.
Interestingly I can not get to the 2009 Obama EO on classified documents – as it has been removed from the whitehouse web site.
You’re incompetent at searching.
When the administration changes, the previous admin’s WH website is archived.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
The top links in google were dead. Not surprising as government is incompetent. Under Biden, Trump, …..
I did eventually find it
“If a Congressperson or Senator walked out of a SCIF with classified documents, they would get a visit from a U.S. government agent by dinnertime and would be arrested.”
Likely – but not the president, and aparently vice president.
Again – have you heard of google ? DuckDuckGo ? Yahoo ?
“Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF) – An area, room, group of rooms, buildings, or installation certified and accredited as meeting Director of National Intelligence security standards for the processing, storage, and/or discussion of sensitive compartmented information (SCI).”
Yup – an entire floor of the state department is a SCIF. That came up in 2016.
I suspect that most of the whitehouse is a SCIF. as well as large portions of the Penatgon.
There is a SCIF at Mar-A-Lago.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/05/trump-in-palm-beach-mar-a-lagos-scif-jfks-bunker-and-keeping-national-security-secure/2359130007/
“White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters on Tuesday that Trump had been briefed on the North Korea situation with his national security team at a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF, in Mar-a-Lago before and after the dinner.”
Trump is not President.
He was.
And Hillary was never arrested and she actually did what you claim.
Conversely There is atleast on SCIF in the capital, and it is highly unlikely a congressmen would be arrested.
Further the courts have interpreted the speech and debate clause immunity incredibly broadly.
You keep trying to pretend this is simple.
It is not.
Outside of Hillary the application of the espionage act has mostly been consistent.
Minor violations by active military are heavily punished.
Actions of other government employees are punished consistent with the scale and the rank of the person – Except for Hillary.
Actions by private party that do not involve actual theft result in loss of clearance and firing.
Just to be clear my response is applicable ONLY where the violation is reckless or negligent, and did not result in the classified material getting into unauthorized hands. John Walker delivered material to the USSR and died in prison.
Google is your freind
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/trump-election-protests.html
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jan/22/two-million-protest-against-trumps-inauguration-worldwide
Violent left wing nuts protesting Trump’s election in 2016.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/11/11/anti-trump-protesters-pepper-sprayed-demonstrations-erupt-across-us/93633154/
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37946231
“Despite what Republicans claim, the President cannot wave his hand over a set of documents and magically make those documents declassified.”
Actually he quite literally can. And it occurs frequently. It is well documented that Trump declassified documents “at the wave of the hand”.
That in the midst of meetings finding that some document was classified he declassified it.
That when discovering that some person was not allowed access to a document – he declassified it on the spot.
Nor is this unique to Trump. Obama and Bush did it too.
If you “spent 43 years in the IC” then you should know that he broke the law even if he’d declassified these documents, and the residence as a whole was NOT certified as a SCIF, even if there was a SCIF inside the very large MaL Club.
I expect that the residence as a whole was not certified as a SCIF – though I would not state that unequivocally.
An entire floor of the State Department is a SCIF. It is not uncommon at the upper eschelons of government to have very large SCIF’s that include many offices. but a SCIF has serious entrance and exiting requirements that apply to everyone – except the president and VP (by Obama’s 2009 executive order). Further SCIF’s can not have any devices connected to insecure networks.
Regardless, the presence of a SCIF at MAL – just as there is with certainty a SCIF at every presidents and vice presidents – active or retired home.
It is my understanding that Biden is currently vacationing in a 20M home alone the ocean – there is with certainty a temporary SCIF setup wherever he is.
Do you honestly believe that the entire house would be littered with documents? You apparently have never been there or seen representative pictures of the inside. Even when the President isn’t there, there is tremendous control as to where people can go.
Thanks Nick, it is always good hearing from someone with knowledge confirm what is true. People wish to believe what suits their wishes even though it demonstrates a failure in logical thinking.
The espionage laws are not about posession of classified information they are about ACTS that compromise national security.
The now public Warrant is damning – to the left, the DOJ and the FBI.
It is incredibly broad. It is histrionic. It is ludicrously stupid.
We the pole are not paying attention. This all happened in 2008 about our nuclear secrets. Do you really think the then football carrier really committed suicide.? Do you think admiral Fallon walked away with a suitcase for no reason? Come on man! No Carlyle group took over on 911. Why else would that be an exemption to ethical disclosure? It’s clear but we don’t discern. Bc hereto fire they classiffy. But now that classify is obe. Over. Unclassified by trump.
Did you see what I just repoted? Trump declassified. So now you reporters should go back and report more better about that means ‘suicide”. And Fallon resignation….And while at it did news reports of wiring problems…in 2008. Trump declassified it all for you…..but instead you report some other party line. Report this. Lanes 86! And I reclassify it.
Because when methods and tactics become the press’s itself….And when ppl in govt like business or birsiski call for propaganda….we the ppl are screwed. And I won’t sit idle by ! This is my country. You can’t steal it. Lanes 86….545499a. Assigned…And declassified.
And declassified. The chi can only people their fiction as to classified. And many of them weren’t even around for the cold w ar. But what today is classified? And who says so? by law it’s the person who classified it. Who can reclassify it. Or the president can trump! That’s important. Lajes86 545499a. I can reclassify that. Or time itself can. The big is lying about their warrant…..They are trying to be more than our president. They need their bar cards seriously looked at. About democracy and oaths.
Trump is an inveterate liar.
Reminder: not only had the government previously asked for all of the documents they took by warrant, they had subpoenaed all of it previously, and he’d refused to abide by that legal subpoena and turn it over.
Reminder: for the alleged crimes underlying the warrant — 18 USC 793, 1519, and 2071 — these crimes can all be charged for info that’s “declassified,” as the text of the laws doesn’t depend on whether the materials are or aren’t classified.
Reminder: NARA already corrected Trump’s lie about Obama — “The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.”
Both his lawyers and family members were able to watch the entire search via the security cameras.
“Trump is an inveterate liar.”
Defamation is not evidence or argument.
“Reminder: not only had the government previously asked for all of the documents they took by warrant, they had subpoenaed all of it previously, and he’d refused to abide by that legal subpoena and turn it over.”
False and stupid.
First on MULTIPLE occasions NARA and the FBI were given full access to MAL – which they searched – without routing through melania’s intimates, and took boxes of documents back with them. Trump is on record as saying on atleast one occasion – give them whatever they want.
Trump has no positive duty to give NARA or the FBI anything. He gave them access and they were allowed to take what they wanted.
“Reminder: for the alleged crimes underlying the warrant — 18 USC 793, 1519, and 2071 — these crimes can all be charged for info that’s “declassified,” as the text of the laws doesn’t depend on whether the materials are or aren’t classified.”
Reminder: Not a chance in h311 this claim holds up.
“Reminder: NARA already corrected Trump’s lie about Obama”
Reminder we all already KNOW that NARA and the government lie.
Yeah that NARA fascilty in Chicago is Obama’s home.
Regardless, NARA is based in DC not chicago.
“Both his lawyers and family members were able to watch the entire search via the security cameras.”
Only because they ignored the FBI demand to turn off the security camera’s
Regardless that is not the requirements of the law.
You left wing nuts are lawless.
“Trump has no positive duty to give NARA or the FBI anything.”
You’re deluded.
He has a positive duty to obey the law, including refraining from having taken documents subject to the PRA and obeying subpoenas.
Trump obeyed the law. That you are a nutcase who likes to dress in Melania’s panties is your problem.
Ewww. She’s a skank married to an adulterous sexual abuser.
Talking Trash about Hillary ?
We understand you ATS. Ashli Babbitt was a stupid woman.
Anyway, try not to mix plaid with stripes.
There is no positive duty to obey almost any law.
Religion is the domain of positive duties and positive morality.
Negative duties and morality are the domain of government.
The very law you left wing nuts cite – does not say “you must”.
It says “You must not”.
Nowhere in the Espionage act is there a reference to possesing documents.
Every crime is about ACTS you can not commit.
It is incredibly rare that a law imposes a positive duty on us to Act.
Virtually all law tells us what ACTS we can not do.
Not at all deluded, just familiar with milenia of “law”.
Even 8 of 10 of the ten commandments tell us what NOT to do.
“Trump is an inveterate liar.”
So you say and continue to say, but to the present you have failed to make your case. No one need respond to such which demonstrates a lack of insight on your part.
Do you think anything you say that follows is meaningful? It isn’t and all one had to do is is look at your opening statement. You are sounding like the moron known as Svelaz.
“When you strike a king, you must kill him.”
– Ralph Waldo Emerson
___________________
Real President Donald J. Trump is a natural born citizen, over 35 years of age, and has been a U.S. citizen for more than 14 years.
You anti-Constitution, anti-American communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) be very sure to keep Real President Donald J. Trump in prison for at least 2 1/2 years because you will never cause him to be ineligible, as is the case with Barack Obama and Kamala Harris, both of them can never be “natural born citizens.”
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Article 2, Section 1
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
WHAT FRESH HELL IS THIS?
George Bush, Dick Cheney, Lizzy Borethem and the entire Deep Deep State Swamp Gang finally found their “WMD.”
The whole U.S. nuclear inventory is at Mar-A-Lago where Trump stashed it after absconding with it in order to keep it out of the hands of the eminently bug house Joe Biden.
Thank you, Mr. Real President Donald J. Trump.
Trump Org. can’t shake Manhattan DA’s criminal fraud case: The Trump Organization and former Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg couldn’t shake the Manhattan District Attorney’s bombshell fraud case today , as a New York judge nixed their bid to dismiss the case. Weisselberg and the Trump Organization wanted New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan to toss a 15-count indictment variously alleging fraud, tax evasion, grand larceny and falsification of business records. They argued prosecutors improperly “targeted Trump’s associates and companies for investigation and prosecution based on their animus toward his speech and political views,” and that the DA provided insufficient evidence. Merchan dismissed just one fraud count against the Trump Organization. Now the case moves toward trial, with jury selection slated for Oct. 24.
I am not a lawyer but using common sense, if Trump is guilty of all this supposed tax fraud why didn’t the IRS charge him years ago?
This is how it goes – whittle this nonsense down one count at a time.
Hundreds of cases have been filed against Trump.
How many are left ?
DOJ dropped its investigation of Guiliani.
Numerous cases dropped in New York.
standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified,” the statement added. “The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”
courts generally have held the president’s power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.
Obama’s executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.
But in the end, officials said the president’s declassification powers were sweeping and likely would be viewed as such by the courts.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents?utm_source=breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
The crimes that were alleged don’t depend on whether or not the documents were classified vs. declassified.
As has already been pointed out by Charlie Savage at the NYT:
“The search warrant for Trump’s residence cited three criminal laws, all from Title 18 of the United States Code. Section 793, better known as the Espionage Act, which covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary; Section 1519, which covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings; and Section 2071, which covers the unlawful removal of government records. Notably, none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified.”
And if you doubt that last sentence, read the laws for yourself:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519
law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2071
Steve Vladeck (UT Austin Law prof) adds: “the fact that the search warrant was based on §§ 793, 1519, and 2071, but *not* 1924, suggests that DOJ was worried about affirmative *misuse* of materials in President Trump’s possession — and not just that he was wrongfully *retaining* them. 1519 is about more than just holding on to documents; it’s about messing with them. And if the concern was that President Trump was simply retaining classified information, why use 793 but *not* 1924? This is all speculation, but it sure points to something beyond mere retention.”
“As has already been pointed out by Charlie Savage at the NYT:”
On virtually every major Trump issue the NYT was wrong, yet you still quote it’s opinion. You have your right to continue on your being wrong streak.
How many times do you have to be wrong before you learn something?
By the way lefties, the purpose to all the attacks against Trump are to make it so he can’t run for President in 2024. I think the Democrats have made it so Trump will run even if his intentions before were the opposite.
If that is true then the left screwed up because the left made it near certain that a healthy Trump will run. That is known as leftist success, like Afghanistan, the war in Ukraine, the economy, gas prices, inflation, etc.
They are also making it so that Trump will win in 2024 by proving that they ARE everything they tell us to fear about Trump.
Again: if you doubt Savage’s last sentence — “none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified” — you can read the laws for yourself.
BTW, attacking the source when you have no evidence that the claim is false is a classic ad hominem fallacy.
I have read the laws, You/Savage are wrong.
Further this whole nonsense is idiocy.
The entire world know that a DC jury will convict Trump or any other republican of breathing, And most DC judges are partisan enough to go along.
But in the event that you stupidly decide to proceed on this nonsense – the issue will be decided at higher courts that are not bat$hit crazy and based on actual law – not the wet dreams of left wing nuts.
Further the core issue here – how does the espionage act apply to presidents – was addressed in 2016 when it was exposed that Obama was communicaing top secret information via an AOL to Clinton.
Many myself included, as well as those on the left pointed out at that time that the law on secrets does not and can not apply to the president. That has not changed.
I am pretty sure Turley posted at the time regarding Pres. Obama’s AOL interactions with Sec. State Clinton in Russia.
Trump is not the President, idiot.
And if you read the laws in question, you need (new) glasses if you think that they’re dependent on the materials being classified.
The above anonymous is unable to read.
My glasses are fine.
The Espionage act was addressed endlessly – even by Trolls such as you 6 years ago.
No one is letting you disown your own arguments then.
You are correct that something does not have to be MARKED classified to be classified.
That was addressed in 2016.
Some government work product is born classified – The president schedule, the sec states schedule.
It need not be marked. Many of those same documents become defacto declassified when they are
no longer a national security issue.
But you are confusing MARKED with classified. And the distinction is very important.
Clinton or her staff transcribed classified documents – often verbatum but omitting classified markings.
They were still classified, and still crimes.
The ACT of transcribing the document and the ACT of removing the markings was a separate crime.
You are correct that this is not about markings. But it is about whether something is classified.
And if it was declassified by the president – your done. There can be no violation of the law.
“BTW, attacking the source when you have no evidence that the claim is false is a classic ad hominem fallacy.”
Smart people pay attention to the source when that source has been wrong on every major issue involving Trump. A person writing for such a source needs to provide additional proof that he is honest while the journal he is writing in isn’t.
Anonymous the Stupid, you are not aware of these things but most intelligent people are.
Any limitation on the President’s powers as commander in chief would require a constitutional amendment. Any attempt to do so through a mere Act of Congress would be an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers.
Trump isn’t President.
He was when these documents were declassified.
He was when these documents were moved to MAL.
Wow!!! Something true from Anonymous’ lips.
AGAIN
US Constitution A2 S1
Its short, its sweet.
It has not been amendmended.
All you are doing is demonstrating how stupid the people in our institutions of higher learning are.
Congress can not grant the executive branch power that does not go through the president.
Doing so requires amending the constitution.
This has been addressed in many supreme court cases. This is not about declassification, it is about ALL powers of the executive.
Congress COULD define the process for classifying and declassifying documents – but the power would STILL reside with the president.
It probably could require declassification to be in writing. But it has not.
“18 U.S. Code § 793 – Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information”
Please read the title – it is NOT about retention of classified information. It is about affirmative ACTS in handling that information.
Subsections e and f cover Reckless or negligent ACTS.
Several people have pointed out that you have absolutely no Mens Rea – which is a requirement for nearly all crimes.
But most are Missing that you have no Actus Rea.
In fact this is a common flaw in nearly all left wing nut claims.
So far all you have is allegations that classified material was present at MAL.
A nuclear bomb could have been present at MAL, a dead body could be present at MAL.
For Trump to have committed a crime he has to have ACTED, He had to have brought the nuclear bomb to MAL – illegally,
He had to have killed the dead person – illegally, or he had to move the classified material illegally.
Only AFTER you have an actually illegal act, can you look at illegal intention.
The near universal requirement for BOTH an illegal act and an illegal intention – always eludes left wing nuts.
Left wing nuts are constantly telling us that Trump or someone else committed a crime – because they had bad motives.
Aside from the mind reading problem – a legal act is legal regardless of motives.
And rarely if ever does the law make it a duty to act. Crime is “Thous Shalt Not”. Imposing positive duties on people by force is essentially slavery. And it is unsustainable.
But god forbid that what comes out of elite law schools today has two brain cells to rub together.
Section 1519, which covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings;
Not as governmetnt investigation or administrative proceding to be found.
You have a massive circular reasoning problem
“Section 2071, which covers the unlawful removal of government records.”
Can not apply to presidents while president.
And again – do you have Trump removing documents AFTER Biden is inaugurated ?
We are back to crimes require ACTS. And the same circular reasoning again
“Notably, none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified.”
Still false. You continue to conflate classified with marked.
A document is classified because of its contents. Executive orders require classified documents to be marked.
But failure to do so does not make then unclassified.
However affirmatively acting – declassifying them removes them entirely from any of the laws regarding classified documents.
Biden could reclassify them – but there is no evidence that he has. And that would create a huge stink.
“Steve Vladeck (UT Austin Law prof) adds: “the fact that the search warrant was based on §§ 793, 1519, and 2071, but *not* 1924, suggests that DOJ was worried about affirmative *misuse* of materials in President Trump’s possession ”
The standard for a warrant is probable cause of a crime – and you must swear that evidence exists
The standard is not “worried”.
I can not arrest you, or search you because I am “worried” that you might commit a crime.
Left wing nuts are worried that Trump will run again in 2024.
Not a crime.
S. Meyer, that may be true of lower classified documents, but the top secret/sensitive compartmented information classification does not apply to Trump. Even he cannot declassify those documents on his own.
Trump has been lying all day and getting caught. This is just one more.
Trump is in serious trouble and he knows it.
He also faces charges of negligence in storing those top secret documents. He’s not president anymore and he’s not allowed to keep those documents.
Svelaz, You are a moron proven by your many posts that contain information totally wrong. You have no critical thinking skills and your credibility is subzero.
You don’t know the law. Instead you belch up whatever is rattling in your brain at the moment.
I’m not an expert in these matters but the sum total of what you say is WRONG as usual. Truth is your enemy.
JTN has been correct on every Trump issue while your source has been wrong on almost all. Dummies don’t know what to do when they see a pattern. You are such a dummy.
Was he always correct when he was an MSNBC contributor? Reading these comments is making me laugh.
Trump cannot keep documents. It’s the law. He’s been out of office long enough. What a crock.
Talk to Obama.
Why? NARA has already stated that Obama turned over all of his Admin’s documents as required by law.
NARA had the same ability with Trump. They picked up documents possibly more than once as did the FBI. Why don’t you take your hand truck and help the FBI gather the documents needed since you keep saying both organizations are incompetent.
NARA has stated all kinds of things that are not true – and that NARA fascility containing Obama’s documents – is in Chicago,
Probably his home.
Regardless, Did Obama load 30M documents into Trucks and send them to NARA ?
No they came and got them.
It is well documented that Trump told NARA, and FBI to take whatever they wanted.
Of course he can.
Do you think about what you write ?
Can Trump not keep birthday cards he receives when president ?
If Melania sends him a love letter is that not his ?
This entire debate is over WHAT can Trump keep.
The receipt shows lots of documents that one wonders why Garland and the FBI are desparately seeking copies of.
A letter from Obama, letters from foreign leaders, photographs with foreign leaders.
I would further note that all documents are not originals – in fact most are not.
President Trump could have the entire contents of the whitehouse photocopied on Jan 19th 2021 and delivered to MAL.
The NA exists to preserve the official records of the US govenrment – not to prevent copies.
The NA contains the declaration of independence – yet I can view a copy online – is that illegal ?
I can view copies of Trump and Obama Executive orders – does that break the law ?
Do you left wing nuts THINK before you speak ?
Quit beating a dead horse.
“US Constitution
Article II
Section 1
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”
I suggest reading the Clinton Bush, and Obama EO’s on classified material
Each have sections covering special catagories – such as nuclear materials.
AGAIN all classification and declassification authority comes from the PRESIDENT.
It MUST, the constitution requires that.
If congress limited the presidents power to declassify relative to the rest of the executive – that would be unconstitutional
The constitutions words are right up there you can read them.
There is no exception in the constitution for the department of energy.
To get the law you want – you must amend the constitution.
I would further note to all those legal experts talking about “process” and not following process.
The “process” is defined in executive orders – not the law. It is defined by EO’s from Clinton, Bush, and Obama.
Each of which exempt the president and vice president completely. Each of which specified that all authority to classify or declassify originates with the president.
Put simply the formal process is defined by the president. It can be ignored by the president.
We still do not know specifically what documents these are.
But it is increasingly likely that these are Collusion Delusion documents – as I have indicated before.
WaPo’s nuclear claim seems to have been “fake news”.
Trump Declassified all of that REPEATEDLY, and did so LOUDLY and Publicly.
He announced it – as early as 2019. and again in 2020 and 2021.
We may have a situation where Trump’s defense is much more than – I declassified these documents,
But that AG Garland is DEFYING a presidential order.
Trump does not have the authority to give orders after Biden was inaugurated.
But every order he issued as president is binding until a subsequent president rescinds that order.
In more than one instance there is a Trump EXECUTIVE ORDER declassifying everything related to the Collusion Dellusion.
Those ORDERS remain in effect.
Further those ORDERS do not say – declassify these two documents.
They say declassify EVERYTHING – IMMEDIATELY.
I have provided several links to MSM stories confirming that Trump issued these orders.
Latest GOP presidential poll has Trump up by 38 points over DeSantis.
Democrats appear to have guaranteed Trump will be the GOP candidate in 2024.
My guess is that more and more Republicans – not senators and representatives,
but ordinary people in their homes understand this left wing nut nonsense will not end until the left is completely crushed.
And as much as they may like DeSantis, Trump is the one they beleive will do that.
There is a split in the GOP between moderates, who may support Trump policies but are turned off by the conflict,
And the main body of Republicans – outside of congress who grasp that unless you kill this woke left nonsense, the toxicity will never end.
There is a split between republicans who want to put the 2020 election behind them, and those who want the proof of serious fraud brought out and punished.
And this difference is consistent issue to issue.
All of us want peace in washington.
The debate is how do we get it.
The left has already lost the debate.
Not only could Biden have not F’d up and delivered a strong future for democrats.
But Biden and democrats could have walked away from Trump and J6 and gotten down to business – and Trump would have faded.
Instead Democrats have done everything they could to kill Trump and his supporters – and all they do is make Trump bigger more powerful and make it clear that democrats will NEVER let go.
There are several republicans that I would prefer over Trump.
But not one of them is as likely as Trump to clean house in DC in 2024.
“There are several republicans that I would prefer over Trump.
But not one of them is as likely as Trump to clean house in DC in 2024.”
One need not like Trump. All one needs to know is who will be in the best position to terminate the work left. Trump is the man though DeSantis has backbone and will be the likely candidate if Trump cannot run because of physical illness. One has no choice, they must vote for Trump or throw their vote away, unless of course, they are part of the sick woke left.
DeSantis does not have the same experience being targeted by the apparatus of government while president.
One alleged reason that the FBI etc. pulled this stunt was because there is a story floating that Trump plans to fire 50,000 federal employees nearly immediately on taking office in 2025. I say far to few.
Regardless, neither DeSantis nor any other republican is going to take a scythe to the federal government in the way Trump will.
Trump knows damn well that the agencies that he presides over will be actively working to take him down, and he must use the power of the president to take them down first.
No other republic has that understanding.
That is why it is essential people vote for Trump should he run. Wasting votes on third party candidates can lead to more of the same we have had under Biden.
Please do not tell me how to vote.
“Please do not tell me how to vote.”
Obviously, John, I am not telling you how to vote. I have no control over that. I am telling you what might happen if too many people decide to vote based on things I find to be the least important.
We have very similar policy views when expressed broadly but differ considerably in assessing results. You are strict in your interpretations, but my interpretations account for the fact that people don’t live forever and society is social. Despite my great support for individualism, we cannot live as complete individuals in a social society.
You can vote for whomever you want, but as you said to Kingsdale, you have a choice. In your case, it is to vote for the ideology or the compromise that can move the needle in the right direction.
Our disagreements are smaller than you think.
I am having a great deal of fun working backwards through Bari Weis’s honestly podcasts right now.
Though I do not think she intended that, one of the themes running accross many podcasts on many different subjects is that top down solutions just do no work.
There is nothing that govenrment is good at.
There is very little that government is necescary for.
Correctly noting that we are social does not change the fact that whatever the legitimate scope of government,
Whatever the scope of those things that must be done and only government can do them is.
It is far smaller than what we have now.
We do know that there is such a thing as too little government – but too little by evidence is only a few percent of GDP.
Peak US Government spending – local, federal and State in the midst of the Civil war was 8% of GDP.
For all OECD countries for every 10% of GDP that government spends/consumes growth declines 1%.
That is true all the way down to the smallest examples – Hong Kong and Singapore at 19% of GDP total government spending.
Unfortunately Hong Kong is likely to drop off as Xi has wrecked it.
Singapore is a fairly authoritarian government, it is incredibly strong on the rule of law – to the point of draconian.
But it also has very high freedom – particularly economic, and in 70 years it has gone from a back water overgrown fishing village to the most prosperous country in the world.
Singapore is not my ideal. But it does show that nations can be incredibly successful with limited government.
Anyway, in those places we differ. In those places you accuse me of being “strict”
Both ideology and utilitarian evalusations lead to less works better than more.
I do not expect to get what i want.
But I am not going to pretend that because I get some of it – I am going to pretend we are done, or that is utopia.
John, you are dealing with a different issue. I don’t significantly disagreement with your ideological views. The question was whether one should vote for (assuming they both are the candidates) Trump or Biden or throwing the vote away.
I will vote for a significant move in the right direction. I won’t say what you might do because you will tell me “Please do not tell me how to vote.” 🙂
Voting for any candidate is not throwing your vote away.
John, if 50 people think Trump much better than Biden and 50 prefer Biden, then if one of the Trump people votes for a third candidate, the vote is thrown away.
No votes is thrown away.
In many instances when the two dominant parties could not secure a majority
a 3rd party gained great power.
“No votes is thrown away. In many instances when the two dominant parties could not secure a majority a 3rd party gained great power.”
If we look at the numbers that was not going to happen in 2016 or 2020 nor in 2024. It is a reasonable rationale for lower offices where change is more likely but will have less power. That is a poor excuse for the dates in question.
At best you are saying, if you flip a dime enough times it will land on its side.
No, I am saying that as people get disgusted with Democrats and republicans support of third parties – particularly libertarians may rise.
That will never happen if we play the lessor of two evils game you insist on.
John, that type of logic can lead to another Biden type victory. I am all for putting the power you are talking about into offices below the presidency (unless there is a major opportunity). Continuous losses doesn’t help. Grow the leadership from the bottom and support those that have a chance in Congress. When one is weak they concentrate power where power will work.
Take a lesson from the Asian supermarkets and nail salons in NYC and elsewhere. Many businesses are run by a family. They all put some money into a pot to help the most likely to succeed and keep building. That is a successful plan quite different from the failing plan I think you might be supporting.