Yesterday, a filing by Special Counsel John Durham revealed that Igor Danchenko, who worked as a key contributor to the discredited Steele dossier funded by the Clinton campaign, was later put on the FBI payroll as an informant. The disclosure rocked Washington and raised additional questions of the FBI’s eagerness to pursue any allegations against Donald Trump despite being warned that the dossier appeared to be a vehicle for Russian disinformation.
Danchenko is facing five counts of lying to the bureau during that relationship. His trial is scheduled for next month in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia.
The filing states that “In March 2017, the FBI signed the defendant up as a paid confidential human source of the FBI. The FBI terminated its source relationship with the defendant in October 2020.”
The news shocked many of us who have closely followed the Russian collusion controversy for years. The FBI showed a zeal to investigate Trump and his campaign that seemed to border on the blind obsessive. It was not simply with the Steele dossier. On the baseless Alfa Bank allegations (also pushed by Clinton campaign through friends at the FBI) the supervisory agent for the FBI’s Trump-Russia probe, Joe Pientka, sent a note to FBI special agent Curtis Heide, stating: “People on the 7th floor to include Director are fired up about this server.” Pientka then messaged Heide: “Did you guys open a case? Reach out and put tools on?”That description of the apparent eagerness of then-FBI Director James Comey and others only magnifies concern over the bureau’s alleged bias or predisposition on the Trump investigation. It was the same eagerness that led the FBI to pursue the Russian investigation for years despite being warned early by American intelligence that the Steele dossier contained not just unsupported allegations but possible Russian disinformation.
Indeed, Danchenko’s possible connections to Russian intelligence have been raised as a matter of concern. The filing states “During his January 2017 interview with the FBI, the defendant initially denied having any contact with Russian intelligence or security services but later — as noted by the agents, contradicted himself and stated that he had contact with two individuals who he believed to be connected to those services.”
What is particularly concerning is that the FBI also had former British spy Christopher Steele, on its payroll. Steele then assembled his dossier under the funding of the Clinton campaign which repeatedly denied such funding to the media. This money was funneled through the law firm of Perkins Coie and the campaign’s general counsel, Marc Elias. (The Federal Election Commission (FEC) fined the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign for violating election rules in hiding that funding).
So the FBI cut off Steele as a paid source after he allegedly worked with the media to spread these unproven claims. It then turned around and hired his principle source for the dossier.
The filing also states that Danchenko discussed an interest in obtaining classified information for possible sale to the Russians.
“As has been publicly reported, the defendant was the subject of an FBI counterintelligence investigation from 2009 to 2011. In late 2008, while the defendant was employed by a prominent think tank in Washington, D.C., the defendant engaged two fellow employees about whether one of the employees might be willing or able in the future to provide classified information in exchange for money.
According to one employee (‘Employee-1’), the defendant believed that he (Employee-1) might be in a position to enter the incoming Obama administration and have access to classified information. During this exchange, the defendant informed Employee-1 that he had access to people who would be willing to pay money in exchange for classified information. Employee-1 passed this information to a U.S. government contact, and the information was subsequently passed to the FBI.
Based on this information, the FBI initiated a ‘preliminary investigation’ into the defendant. The FBI converted its investigation into a ‘full investigation’ after learning that the defendant (1) had been identified as an associate of two FBI counterintelligence subjects and (2) had previous contact with the Russian Embassy and known Russian intelligence officers.”
The “prominent think tank” appears to be the Brookings Institution. I have previously written about the prominent role of Brookings in spreading the Russian collusion claims and hiring an array of people who played critical roles in these investigations. That also included former FBI general counsel James Baker. For some, it seemed like not just friends but “friends with benefits.” It seems that everyone in this scandal was six degrees from Brookings.
I would say we have a flaw in our constitution. A senile president who was elected through the use of corrupt information is too senile to put a check on abuse by the “Just-Us” department. Without enough votes to impeach, we watch justice in it worst form run rampant.
RE:”I would say we have a flaw in our constitution. A senile president who was elected through the use of corrupt information ” I say we have a flaw in our electorate who swallowed that Kool Aid and remain constant in his support. One right next door from me, in fact!
One possible solution: let natural selection do its thing.
Man selects only for his own good: Nature only for that of the being which she tends.
― Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species
“The FBI Paid For Russian Disinformation To Frame Trump—And 7 Other Takeaways From Durham’s Latest Court Filing”
https://thefederalist.com/2022/09/14/the-fbi-paid-for-russian-disinformation-to-frame-trump-and-7-other-takeaways-from-durhams-latest-court-filing/
“[T]he FBI’s eagerness to pursue any allegations against Donald Trump . . .”
But, by all means, we should trust the FBI today — because, well, that was so yesterday.
Those who deny history and motivation are either dupes or willfully dishonest. Not sure which is worse.
We are dealing with neo-marxists and useful idiots.
What is also shocking is the people who pushed this hoax are still in power and have no shame or embrassment about being revealed. That includes Schhff and Hillary. This group and there are many are so driven by lies and hate that they actually believe their own lies and is pathological now.
IOW, they got away with it.
No shame or embarrassment for sure, in fact likely the opposite, pride and righteousness.
They don’t live in the same legal world as you and I; they have their own community and supporters, and people in powerful places that see it as a given to take down Trump as an existential threat by all means possible.
So they do what they do, with the assurance they will not be held accountable. And it looks like they are right.
“The news shocked many of us who have closely followed the Russian collusion controversy for years.”
At this point, it’s hard to imagine that FBI corruption, incompetence, or just a general lack of integrity would shock anyone.
Ugly threads that seem to have been in obvious sight for many years.
The FBI is out of control, but people in Washington seem to see that as “normal”.
Their mistake was in letting the little people catch a glimpse of the swamp.
Turley is missing the big story about this today. The NYTimes is reporting that the Durham investigation is winding down with the grand jury expiring and no further charges expected and very little to show for its three years of work and travel around the world.
Because there was nothing there all along except for a bunch of the usual FoxNews conspiracy theories trying to run interference for Trump.
Farley is a moron
Farley: You need to read Rule 6 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, especially Notes of Advisory Committee on Rules—1983 Amendment. Courts can extend grand juries for good reasons (such as the COVID Pandemic interferring) or to “wrap things up.” In addition, if a grand jury expires without issuing an indictment, a new grand jury can be presented with the same evidence and testimony and can be asked to decide on an indictment (true bill). But, hey, if the NY Times says it, you know, well, you know what it means, right? 🙂
You think that guy went to law school? But I guess it really doesn’t matter when you have law school professors thinking the same way.
All Durham is done is prove that in DC you can not get a democrat convicted for conduct that makes Watergate look like a bible study.
While Durham has done an excellent job of demonstrating that Hillary and her campaign were corrupt and immoral.
They did very little that was actually illegal.
The real misconduct was within the DOJ/FBI/SC and that has not been addressed at all.
What has NYT been right about in years ?
As a constant observer of politics in the USA from my mid-west perch, what’s becoming clear to me as facts are revealed in this investigation and those facts are logically piled one upon the other, is that the perception that there’s a “deep state” out to get President Trump wasn’t a wackadoodle conspiracy theory after all. What the accumulation of facts shows us is, there was, and still are, “deep state” traitors to the United States of America and its’ people that were/are inside and outside the United States government bureaucracy that engaged in a soft coup and that conspiracy was willfully supported by an obsessed lapdog Pravda like media propaganda network that intentionally set set journalism ethics aside and spewed any anti-Trump propaganda they could find at a moments notice regardless of truth, facts or journalistic ethical standards; they were all colluding in an attempted soft coup to take down the sitting President of the United States. With this “deep state” group of traitors it’s clear that the ends justifies the means in their witch hunt as long as the goal was to get President Trump and they didn’t, and still don’t, care if their efforts are truthful, fact based, illegal, unconstitutional, unethical or immoral. The effort of the “deep state” witch hunt to get President Trump started before he was inaugurated and is still going on today. These people have very serious morality problems.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; “The political left has shown its pattern of propaganda lies within their narratives so many times since 2016 that it’s beyond me why anyone would blindly accept any narrative that the political left and their lapdog media actively push?”
Traitor: person(s) who betrays a country or a principle.
Witherspoon, good grief. There is no “deep state”. That’s just a pretext for anything that is deemed suspicious because it involves a complicated set of events and information. If anything is not simple or has sharp black and white explanations it’s because of the “deep state”. These “deep state” excuses are borne out of conspiracy theories that never match up to reality.
John Durham’s prosecution of Michael Sussman ended up with an acquittal because Durham’s arguments were heavily dependent on conspiracy theories and notions of a “deep state”. The “deep state” is an easy boogeyman used as an excuse when things get too complicated or nuanced for Trump supporters who need clear sharp and simple black and white explanations for what they are seeing or reading. Nuanced and complicated explanations are looked upon with distrust because it’s often exposes an inability ti understand and to compensate for that the “deep state” is the simple answer that they do understand.
Svelaz wrote, “There is no “deep state”. “
Stating that does not make it true especially when compiling evidence shows that you’re dead wrong.
Svelaz wrote, “John Durham’s prosecution of Michael Sussman ended up with an acquittal because Durham’s arguments were heavily dependent on conspiracy theories and notions of a “deep state”. “
I know you being an internet troll and all means that you don’t apply reasonable logic or actual reality to anything you write and you’re making it up as you go, but this is a flaming example of non-logic trolling. Just because prosecution of Michael Sussman ended up with an acquittal does not mean in any way that a “deep state” doesn’t exist and that that “deep state” is not out to get President Trump.
Svelaz wrote, “These “deep state” excuses are borne out of conspiracy theories that never match up to reality.”, “The “deep state” is an easy boogeyman used as an excuse when things get too complicated or nuanced for Trump supporters who need clear sharp and simple black and white explanations for what they are seeing or reading. Nuanced and complicated explanations are looked upon with distrust because it’s often exposes an inability to understand and to compensate for that the “deep state” is the simple answer that they do understand.”
If your overall comment is you actually trying to claim that no one is out to get President Trump, then I’m going to state in no uncertain terms that all the facts since 2016 prove that you’re dead wrong and your either delusional, as in holding idiosyncratic beliefs that are contradicted by reality, or just a bald-faced liar. There’s a big world out there Svelaz and your inability to accept the actual reality that’s right in front of your face because it contradicts with the left’s hive mind narrative is signature significant of a purely bigoted partisan hack.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; “The political left has shown its pattern of propaganda lies within their narratives so many times since 2016 that it’s beyond me why anyone would blindly accept any narrative that the political left and their lapdog media actively push?”
Svelaz’s statements are clearly those of an troll. They are indicative of someone who worships government control and government institution and whose information is controlled by his semi-fascist friends (whom we call Democrats).
Durham proved with absolute certainty Sussman lied. There is no way around it. That he was acquitted shows that Democrats have corrupted the system from top to bottom. We’ve known since FDR tried packinh SCOTUS that they’ve been selecting activist judges willing to legislate from the bench and ignore the Constitution to achieve political goals.
But now we know that jurors in jurisdictions heavily populated with Democrats can not be trusted to return a fair, unbiased, honest verdict in cases that even remotely touch on politics.
Anonymous,
“ Durham proved with absolute certainty Sussman lied. There is no way around it. That he was acquitted shows that Democrats have corrupted the system from top to bottom.”
Nope. Durham didn’t prove Sussman lied according to the charge. Sussman was acquitted because Durham did not show that Sussman lied to the FBI.
“ But now we know that jurors in jurisdictions heavily populated with Democrats can not be trusted to return a fair, unbiased, honest verdict in cases that even remotely touch on politics.”
You don’t know the party affiliation of the jurors. Your assumptions are not fact. Just because you didn’t get the verdict you WANTED is not proof that the Jury was all democrats. You’re just upset that the law worked as intended.
Sevlaz:
Durham presented unambiguous evidence that proved Sussman lied. That is a fact. It is all in writing. Sussman wrote, “I am coming on my own, not on behalf of a client or company.” Billing records show that is a lie. He was being paid by the Clinton campaign. He went to the FBI to try to get them to investigate the Democrat lies that Trump was using the Alfa Bank server to communicate with “Russia”.
Sussman’s written lies are unambiguous. You can not spin it away. The facts do not change with your lies.
The corrupt judge allowed multiple Clinton donors to sit on the jury. One juror had a child who played on a sports team with Sussman’s daughter. That corrupt jury chose to engage in jury nullification rather than convict based on the rock solid evidence that Sussman lied.
It’s impossible to reason with someone who refuses to acknowledge the facts. Please don’t respond further. I fart in your general direction. Your mother is a hamster.
I have huge problems with 18 US 1001. Lying to government agents is stupid and should attreact their attention, but it should not be a crime. Not for Sussman, not for Danchenko, not for Papadoulis, not for Van Der Zandt, …..
But Sussman made a false report of a crime and should have been prosecuted for that.
So far I do not see a basis for prosecuting Danchenko.
Danchenko should be a witness against those int he FBI and DOJ and SC that engaged in massive abuses of power.
Danchenko’s conduct is not moral. But it is not illegal.
Witherspoon,
“ Stating that does not make it true especially when compiling evidence shows that you’re dead wrong.”
Saying that there is a “deep state” does not make it true either. That “evidence” you mention is nothing more than conjecture and innuendo borne out of these conspiracy theories. It’s a vicious never ending series of circular arguments.
No one is out to “get” Trump. It’s Trump’s own fault. He brought the DOJ’s scrutiny upon himself when his actions, behavior, rhetoric, and constant lying raised a lot of suspicions that required investigations.
Trump’s own incompetence and narcissistic need to be worthy and be deemed “important” AND his constant need to just keep shooting his mouth off is what brings the FBI and DOJ to “get” Trump.
Trump has no one to blame but himself. Because of his narcissism he is blaming the FBI and DOJ for his own blunders with the law.
What is the conjecture ? What is the inuendo ?
The steele dossier was a HOAX – that is an established fact. It was concocted by the Clinton campaign. paid for by the Clinton campaign. Denachenko was hired – through Perkins Coi by the Clinton campaign, and the content came from gossip and rumors within the Clinton campaign.
The Alpha Bank claims were another HOAX again perpitrated by the Clinton campaign, from manufactured data.
The FBI/DOJ knew this in October 2016, By Jan 2017 they knew in great detail from Danchenko the Steele Dossier was just a collection of DNC gossip.
And yet, DOJ/FBI still investigated Trump – not Clinton, deliberately trying to frame the incoming NSA – and Biden and Obama were part of that frameup.
Then when the FBI director responsible for this abuse of power, this political hit job was fired, the DOJ appointed a special counsel – Based on WHAT ? A collection of know frauds and HOAXes ?
That Special Counsel not only learned quickly that the foundation of the investigation was hoaxes all the way down, but then hired the creator of one of the HOAXes to prevent congressional and court inquiries from finding out about the HOAXes and then wasted 2 years investigating the HOAXes as if they were real – rather than the HOAXsters.
All that is established FACT.
And you think that noting that those involved are engaged in a conspiracy to abuse power – is a fantasy ? Inuendo ?
The question is not is there a deep state. It is why aren’t these people in jail ?
And why is it that those like you are still shilling nonsense ?
John B. Say,
The Steele dossier was indeed discredited, a complete hoax. Not really, Some parts of the dossier were indeed corroborated. It is true that the media ran wild with the Steele dossier story and it’s many allegations. Some retracted their claims others corrected their stories which indicates that they at least recognized the error in reporting that story. What kept the story alive however was not only the rest of the media’s reluctance to admit some parts of the story were not true, but also the Trump campaign’s own actions making the optics and the dossier’s allegations seem more plausible. The meeting at Trump tower with the Russians was not helpful. Neither was the fact that Manafort did share polling data with the Russians when he was campaign manager for Trump.
It didn’t help when Trump publicly called on the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails to look for those “missing’ emails and it turned out they really did that.
At the time the Dossier became publicly known it’s allegations were explosive and coupled with the Trump campaign’s suspicious behavior the FBI had no choice but to investigate. They ARE in the business of counterintelligence and the idea that Russians had something on Trump when he was a presidential candidate HAD to be investigated.
“ The FBI/DOJ knew this in October 2016, By Jan 2017 they knew in great detail from Danchenko the Steele Dossier was just a collection of DNC gossip.”
That’s pure conjecture. Nobody knew what they knew and making assumptions that they knew early on is just conjecture. That is how conspiracy theories are born.
Here’s an article that better explains the whole issue in a nicely balanced way. The author does include the fact that the Steele dossier was indeed discredited and he does make a good point in the end.
https://amp.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2021/11/17/steele-dossier-media-trump-rich-barlow
Sorry Sergei but your response to John Say is way off base. You re-arrange timelines and make totally unsupportable assertions, the most egregious of which is “Some parts of the Steele dossier were indeed corroborated.”
As I’m sure you know there really was no Steele Dossier but 15-17 short memos with all kinds of spytalk crapola in them to make them sound impressive. I think the only thing corroborated in any of them is that Prague is in The Czech Republic and that Trump’s first wife was Czechoslovakian and that — as has happened in every U.S. election since Stalin re FDR in 1932 — Russian intelligence played dirty tricks in the U.S. 2016 election (primarily running Facebook ads showing Hillary boxing with Jesus). “Indeed,” if you believe some of them were actually corroborated, please cite them by number (they were all numbered). And do not include things that anyone could have read over the last 40 years on Page 6 (such as Trump had a swimsuit competition in Moscow and talked about building a hotel there)
You need look no further than the Horowitz report that stated that “The FBI concluded, among other things, that although consistent with known efforts by Russia to interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections, much of the material in the Steele election reports, including allegations about Donald Trump and members of the Trump campaign relied upon in the Carter Page FISA applications, could not be corroborated; that certain allegations were inaccurate or inconsistent with information gathered by the Crossfire Hurricane team; and that the limited information that was corroborated related to time, location, and title information, much of which was publicly available.”
And you — like the lying media — still five years later insist on conflating the Clinton Chappaqua emails of State Department/Clinton Global Initiative secrets of 2009-2012 with the anti-Catholic and related emails phished from Podesta in the Clinton Campaign of 2015-2016. Roger Stone had no more to do with phishing Podesta in 2016 than Mark Zuckerberg did. And I still don’t understand why Garland doesn’t just give Assange immunity from everything for simply spilling the beans on the Trump connection to Wikileaks… which would not have been illegal if there were one. Maybe that’s because there was no such connection.
And all your “balanced” 2021 whataboutism article from the far far left WBUR does is assert that the rest of what you wrote is wrong, quoting even further left Axios
“The Steele dossier was indeed discredited, a complete hoax. Not really,”\
Yes, Really
“The meeting at Trump tower with the Russians was not helpful.”
Only in a world where only Democrats are allowed to get political dirt on their opponents from Russians.
Clintons ties to Russia are massive – hundreds of milions of dollars.
“Neither was the fact that Manafort did share polling data with the Russians”
With a Ukrainian, who the state department claims works for them.
Regardless this was always a stupid claim.
“It didn’t help when Trump publicly called on the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails to look for those “missing’ emails and it turned out they really did that.”
Except they did not. Even Crowdstrike has refused to testify that the DNC emails were hacked, much less that it was Russians. I would further note that Trump’s remarks came After the purported hack.
“At the time the Dossier became publicly known it’s allegations were explosive and coupled with the Trump campaign’s suspicious behavior the FBI had no choice but to investigate. ”
False. the criteria for opening an investigation are not emotional. Mere allegations are not sufficient.
The allegations have to be credible. Credibility is not acheived by stacking lies.
I would note that the FIRST thing the FBI did when they were told Papadoulis was conspiring with the Russians over Emails, was to contact the SOURCE where they quickly found that there was nothing there.
The claim regarding the Trump campaign colluding over Clinton’s emails died in days as a basis for investigation,
Because the FBI did their job and checked the SOURCE First, and the claim fell apart.
The Alpha Bank scam fell apart quickly – though not in the media – because the FBI went to CIA to evaluate the SOURCE data – and the CIA noted it was garbage.
The FBI’s correct response to the Steele Dossier would have been to start with Steele and Danchenko – not the allegations in the dossier.
If I accuse you of being a pedophile – law enforcement is going to check ME out first – do I have any reason to actually know, do I have an axe to grind with you. Only after my credibility is established will they look at my claims regarding your pedophilia.
“They ARE in the business of counterintelligence and the idea that Russians had something on Trump when he was a presidential candidate HAD to be investigated.”
Nope. Myriads of people allege – with reasonable basis that the Russians and Chinese have something on Joe Biden,
yet there is no special counsel investigation.
Alleging something is not sufficient basis for an investigation.
““ The FBI/DOJ knew this in October 2016, By Jan 2017 they knew in great detail from Danchenko the Steele Dossier was just a collection of DNC gossip.”
That’s pure conjecture. ”
It is literally what Danchenko told the FBI when he was interviewed in Jan 2017.
“Nobody knew what they knew and making assumptions that they knew early on is just conjecture. That is how conspiracy theories are born.”
Quotes from the FBI’s interview of Dnachenko in 2017 stating that the Dossier was all rumor and gossip have been published log ago. More recently Danchenko’s own court filings including emails to the FBI to that effect prior to the Jan 2017 interview.
Danchenko is following the same defense strategy that Sussman did successfuly – and likely will prevail for the same reason. Danchenko is claiming, and providing evidence to PROVE that the FBI knew the whole mess was a hoax from the start.
Danchenko is a disreputable character. He may be a Russian spy. But he did not do anything criminal – putting together a bunch of gossip and rumors for money is not illegal.
“Here’s an article”
Your article is about the media failures. So What ? The entire point here is that the FBI knew this was garbage in Jan 2017 – or earlier. What does the fact that the media – without knowledge of the Dossier’s source, idiotically beleived the nonsense in the dossier have to do with anything ?
The media can be faulted for bad journalistic standards. For failure to investigate. But the media has one important exculpatory fact – they did not know that the Steele Dossier came from the Clinton campaign until fairly recently.
They did not know that Danchenko was the author of most of it until recently. They did not know that Danchenko had discribed it as salacious gossip years earlier. None of us did.
The FBI however knew that. The DOJ knew that. At the time Rosenstein appointed Mueller SC he KNEW or should have known that. Shortly after being appointed we now know that Mueller KNEW that.
You do not seem to grasp – that ends the investigation.
You can not constitutionally continue an investigation when there is no credible allegation of a crime.
The constituton forbids a warrant absent law enforcement swearing under oath that the allegation is credible.
We can not investigate people based on rumors. Not even lots of rumors.
“The author does include the fact that the Steele dossier was indeed discredited”
The core problem is not that the Steele dossier was discredited, But that it was discredited to the FBI very very early.
I would not that legally it is not that it was discredited that matters. It is that it was never established as credible.
Those are similar but not identical.
The FBI/DOJ could not proceed constitutionally beyond Steele and Danchenko until the dossier was established as CREDIBLE. That does not require every allegation to prove true. But it requires something that could not be gleaned by reading the newspapers to be proven true.
The allegation that the Biden’s are corrupt is not proven By Joe Biden’s public remarks about getting Shokin fired.
But the allegation is CREDIBLE because of Joe Biden’s involvement, his remakrs and Hunter Biden’s involvement with Burisma, and his involvement in the investigation of Burisma, and his involvement with the state department trying to shut down the investigation.
Trump met the standards of credibility to ask for an investigation of the Biden’s.
The Steele Dossier NEVER met those standards.
There NEVER was a basis for investigation and DOJ/FBI/SC KNEW that and proceeded anyway.
That is abuse of power, that is abuse of civil rights, that is criminal.
Danchenko is repugant, but not criminal. Everyone in DOJ/FBI that was involved in crossfire Huricane and the SC investigation acted criminally. The investigated us citizens in violation of their rights without a credible allegation of a crime.
YOU fixate on the pee tape – which MIGHT be true, but STILL is just a rumor. You can beleive it to be true. But there is no evidence. But worse still, even if true it is not a crime.
Government can not legitimately investigate non-crimes.
Of course they were “out to get Trump”
That is what you call it when you manufacture multiple HOAXes to take someone out.
That is what you call it when the FBI and DOJ use their power to shill KNOWN HOAXes.
If I post that you are a pedophile – and make up evidence to support that. If I produce documents saying that you were diddling little boys in some motel off US 1, and chatting on known pedo sites, and Trading child porn.
If I make all that an more up and go to the FBI with it.
And then I tell the FBI it was all a HOAX – and yet the FBI and DOJ continue to investigate YOU
Is that OK with you ? Is that constitutional ?
Is that Moral ?
Does the fact that you have posted lots of incredibly stupid things here, mean that you should have your life torn apart by law enforcement based on claims they KNOW are a lie ?
If then rather that prosecuting me for Lying about you, the FBI decides to pay me as an informant to protect me from scrutiny, to make it so that neither you nor anyone else can find out that the entire investigation of you rests on lies and HOAX’s ?
That’s all OK with you ?
That’s justified – because so many of your posts are stupid and offensive ?
Ok I will shut up as a-Deaf activist, politicos and all
Actions speak louder than words
People do not have to listen to me or anyone else
Door closed
“ Of course they were “out to get Trump”
That is what you call it when you manufacture multiple HOAXes to take someone out.”
No, that is what happens when you ignore the fact that Trump’s massive propensity to shoot his mouth off and lie constantly.
Relying on past mistakes or “hoaxes” as an excuse to ignore everything else happening in the present is not different than how Republican candidates these days have their vote fraud claims because they lost. They are relying on the notion that when a Republican loses an election it is automatically the result of voter fraud or a stolen election. We both know that is not true. This happened in Kansas when the abortion referendum passed by landslide margins and the anti-abortion advocates cried foul claiming voter fraud. Even a recount paid by them showed they lost and they still refused to accept that it what happened. They were not convinced they lost so it must have been voter fraud.
Your oversimplified examples are not comparable to what happened in the Durham vs. Sussman case.
“that is what happens when you ignore the fact that Trump’s massive propensity to shoot his mouth off and lie constantly.”
Completely irrelevant, whether True or not.
There is no crime of shooting off your mouth and lying.
The media can investigate whatever they want – rumor, gossip, rudeness.
None of these are legitimate constitutional basis for a government investigation.
“ignore everything else happening in the present”
Again – the DOJ/FBI are free to investigate present credible allegations of crimes.
Nor rumors gossip or conduct that offends you.
The press is free to chase that down – law enforcement is not.
“Republican candidates these days have their vote fraud claims because they lost.”
Right now at this moment more democrats believe that Clinton won in 2016 than republicans beleive that Trump won in 2020.
It is not a crime – despite what Biden and democrats claim – today. To dispute the outcome of an election.
Further it can not EVER be a crime or we will always have massive election fraud.
And whether you like it or not the 2020 election was disasterous for democrats.
The failure to properly examine allegations of election fraud – failures that continue through this day,
continue to undermine americans trust in our elections and our institutions.
Trust comes from transparency and from scrutiny. We did not have that.
We still do not have that.
Worse still democrats are working hard to make elections as untrustworthy as possible.
“They are relying on the notion that when a Republican loses an election it is automatically the result of voter fraud or a stolen election.”
Nope. whether you like it or not there is plenty of damning evidence regarding 2020.
What we BOTH know is true is that democrats used the pandemic to massively change voting in the US.
That is a huge recipe for distrust. And that is exactly what you got.
“This happened in Kansas when the abortion referendum passed by landslide margins and the anti-abortion advocates cried foul claiming voter fraud. Even a recount paid by them showed they lost and they still refused to accept that it what happened. They were not convinced they lost so it must have been voter fraud.”
And they are entitled to do so. You keep pretending that being wrong is a crime.
I have no dog in the Kansas abortion referendum.
But it is highly unlikely that a measure that wins by almost 20% of the vote is going to be the result of fraud – even if there was fraud.
There was near certain significant fraud in the Newsom Recall. There was not some massive fight about the election results because Newsom won on a scale that was beyond fraud that would not have been blatantly obvious.
Significant election fraud is always going to be most common in close elections.
Several states have implimented Mailin voting prior to 2020 without serious allegations of fraud.
While mailin voting can NEVER be secured it is still unlikely to matter so long as elections are not expected to be close. The more fraudulent votes you have to inject the exponentially more likely you are to get caught.
In Kansas pro-life voters paid for a recount. That was more than the left allowed in any of the contested states in 2020.
While I think that demographic and ideological factors make election fraud by the left more likely than by the right.
That is merely a matter of scale and frequency. I have zero doubt that there is plenty of election fraud in every election and that there is republican as well as democrat fraud.
The recent Sam Harris inteview demonstrates ideologically why it is more likely on the left than the right.
Harris openly admitted that Trump was such an obvious evil that defeating him by ANY MEANS NECESCARY was acceptable. Harris is a highly respected person. I respect Harris greatly. But his remarks are damning – not just to him but to the entire left that is a far less character than Harris. First it reflect a massively distorted view of reality.
Trump is not an existential threat to anything. Aside from being a loud mouth, in terms of actions he is tame and mostly only slightly right of center. He is not Hitler, he is not fascist, he is not semi-fascist.
But the more significant problem is the “by any means necessary” – ideologically the left has ALWAYS allowed the ends to justify the means. While in the real world pursuing even more despicable means and never accomplishing the desired ends. The left is by ideological core values more likely to engage in election fraud.
But there are also demographic factors. Republicans are widely dispersed in the US. That makes fraud much harder.
Democrats are concentrated, that makes fraud easier. Completely without regard to ideology fraud will be more common where it is easy than where it is hard.
From the 2000 Bush Gore Election I have been fighting for election integrity.
I fought and still fight against the computer election terminals that Bush and republicans foist on us in 2001.
These are a major mistake and destroy transparency. Replacing punched cards and mechanical voting machines was an excellent move – but black box voting terminals were a huge mistake. Fortunately those are slowly going away.
Mailin voting is a massive invitation to election Fraud. That said, most of the states that implemented mailin voting prior to 2020 have not likely seen significant fraud. Those states have not seen significant numbers of close elections.
Conversely there was 5 times more election fraud in the 2020 democratic primary in newark than would have been needed nationwide to flip the presidential election. large blue cities – especially those with a long history of election fraud, combined with mailin voting is a guarantee of fraud.
“Your oversimplified examples are not comparable to what happened in the Durham vs. Sussman case.”
Why ? I actually think the Jury got it right in Sussman, and they are likely to Acquit Danchenko – and that will be right to. They are engaging in jury nullification. And the only problem is they are doing so only one way.
18 US 1001 is bad law. Susman should have been tried for false reporting. Danchenko did not approach the FBI they approached him. Danchenko is much like Flynn – except he is a more disreputable character. Durham has already proved that Danchenko lied to the FBI – as with Sussman that is not in doubt. But Danchenko is doing an excellent job of correctly pointing out that the FBI did not care.
The problem in collusion delusion is not the conduct of Danchenko, Sussman, or Clinton. It is the conduct of DOJ/FBI/SC Mueller.
“ that is what happens when you ignore the fact that Trump’s massive propensity to shoot his mouth off and lie constantly.”
Completely irrelevant, whether True or not.
There is no crime of shooting off your mouth and lying.
The media can investigate whatever they want – rumor, gossip, rudeness.
None of these are legitimate constitutional basis for a government investigation.”
it is quite relevant. When Trump shoots his mouth off or makes false claims those things in and of themselves are not crimes. However, that doesn’t mean that they don’t bring scrutiny and suspicion. They do become legitimate when it is reported to have violated a law or a crime may have been committed. An investigation can also be initiated at the request of congress, a senator, or any of the multiple congressional committees. If allegations are serious enough and have enough credibility they certainly merit an investigation.
Trump shooting his mouth off and lying couples with reports of malfeasance trigger an investigation. This isn’t government just deciding to investigate out of the blue. Trump’s own stupid actions and behavior or the incompetence of his own staff expose him to investigation. The FBI which is an INVESTIGATIVE body is often legally required by law to investigate certain allegations and that includes foreign entities trying to compromise a presidential candidate.
Republicans have always been quick to play the victim card whenever Trump by his own doing invites scrutiny and investigations and keeps on doing it because he ends up playing the victim card to the extreme.
As for the rest of your long winded response which is just a re-hashing of past grievances I will only respond to the last paragraph. Sussman didn’t make a false report. As it was pointed out in the filings his reporting was not about misleading the FBI as you allege. Durham could have tried that route, but he was smart enough to know that he would never be able to prove intent. So all that he had was making a materially false statement which was shown not to be the case.
“it is quite relevant. When Trump shoots his mouth off or makes false claims those things in and of themselves are not crimes. However, that doesn’t mean that they don’t bring scrutiny and suspicion.”
Nope. The constitution protects free speech. There is not criminal liability for false claims – except specifically false claims to law enforcement for the purpose of subjecting others to criminal investigation.
If Trump has said something that actually defames you or someone else – YOU are free to files a defamation claim.
That is civil, not criminal, and no business of law enforcement.
“They do become legitimate when it is reported to have violated a law or a crime may have been committed.”
When someone reports a crime – such as if I accuse you of being a pedophile, the FIRST investigation is of ME, not you. Law enforcement may not investigate YOU, until they have verified that MY report is based on real first hand knowledge. The FBI/DOJ knew that the Steele Dossier was a hoax. That is the verdict in the Sussman trial and will be the likely verdict in the Danchenko Trial. It is a crime – a violation of the constitution, a violation of peoples civil rights for law enforcement to investigate a crime – when the allegation is know to be a hoax.
“An investigation can also be initiated at the request of congress, a senator, or any of the multiple congressional committees.”
Nope, they can request an investigation, but actual investigations must be based on credible evidence of a crime.
The standard is lowest for opening an investigation – but merely opening an investigation does not allow the FBI to do much. Each more intrusive investigative step requires a higher standard of evidence.
The Steele Dossier was a KNOWN Hoax from the first day it was brought to the FBI – that is litterally the decision of the Sussman Jury. That means the DOJ/FBI never had the basis for an investigation.
BTW the same standards apply to requests for investigations from congress.
There is no exception to the 4th amendment for congressional requests.
“If allegations are serious enough and have enough credibility they certainly merit an investigation.”
Serious is irrelevant. Credibility is critical. A known hoax has no credibility.
“Trump shooting his mouth off and lying couples with reports of malfeasance trigger an investigation.”
Nope.
“This isn’t government just deciding to investigate out of the blue”
Yes, actually it is and that is precisely the problem, and precisely why the conduct of those in the FBI and DOJ is both unconstitutional and criminal. The FBI/DOJ used the Steele Dossier as a pretext to investigate Trump, and those related to him. How do we know that ? Because the FISA warrant application told the FISA Court all the reasons they wanted to spy on Carter page, and all of them were lies, frauds or Hoaxes. The Steele Dossier was not their only basis, But it was the most significant, and the remaining ones if anything were WORSE.
You can lie to you neighbor, you can lie to the american people. But when you lie to a COURT – that is a crime.
When you lie to a COURT to obtain the power to spy on others that is a very serious crime.
In fact there is nothing Trump or Page or others are alleged to have done that is a fraction as serious as using a Hoax to investigate people you do not like.
“Trump’s own stupid actions and behavior or the incompetence of his own staff expose him to investigation.”
Nope, there is no clause in the constitution that says The government can criminally investigate stupid, or incompetent. A criminal investigation requires a credible allegation of a crime. By defintion a known hoax is NOT a credible allegation of a crime.
“The FBI which is an INVESTIGATIVE body is often legally required by law to investigate certain allegations and that includes foreign entities trying to compromise a presidential candidate.”
The FBI is a CRIMINAL investigative body. This was a CRIMINAL investigation.
“Republicans have always been quick to play the victim card”
Nope, not republican. Regardless, I have not heard anything that justifies prosecution of Danchenko so far.
His conduct was repugnant – just as you think Trump’s is. But it is not criminal.
I would have prosecuted Sussman – but for filing a false criminal report, not lying to the FBI which should not be a crime. Danchenko and Sussman are both guilty of violating 18 US 1001 – much more so than Flynn or Papadoulis, or van der zandt. But none should be prosecuted – because this should not be a crime.
This is not about Republicans vs. Democrats.
Everything is purportedly worse than Watergate.
But this literally is.
Watergate occured because the FBI and IRS refused to be used by Nixon to go after his enemies.
Obama and Biden and NY AG James have used the IRS to go after their enemies.
Obama and Biden have used DOJ/FBI to go after their enemies.
Trump was impeached for trying to use Zelenski to go after his political enemies.
But there is one HUGE difference. There was and still remains credible evidence that the Biden’s engaged in misconduct in Ukraine. While the Crossfire Huricane and Special Counsel investigation are based not merely on HOAXES, but HOAXES know to the FBI and DOJ and SC from the start.
“whenever Trump by his own doing invites scrutiny and investigations and keeps on doing it because he ends up playing the victim card to the extreme.”
Not how the constitution works.
“As for the rest of your long winded response which is just a re-hashing of past grievances”
What you call grevances are Crimes that have not be redressed.
When there are no consequences for government failures – or worse crimes. Trust in govenrment is destroyed.
When law enforcement is criminal, we are lawless.
“I will only respond to the last paragraph. Sussman didn’t make a false report.”
Of course he did.
“As it was pointed out in the filings his reporting was not about misleading the FBI as you allege.”
That is correct – when you file a false report and those who are taking your false report know it is false, no one is mislead. That is the standard for lying to a federal agent. It is not the standard for false reports of crime.
“Durham could have tried that route, but he was smart enough to know that he would never be able to prove intent.”
Knowing the report is false is more than enough to prove intent.
You actually have a double bind here. Sussman’s lying to the FBI defense is that everyone knew he was lying.
For filing a false report that is not a defense, But YOU knowing that your statement is false is all that is needed to prove the crime. That is well established. Further Sussman knew where his information came from. He has both admitted it was false. and obviously knew it.
“So all that he had was making a materially false statement which was shown not to be the case.”
First you are botching the law. It is not materially false, it is false and material. They are separate elements.
The reason the statement was not material, is because the FBI knew it was false.
Materiality is not an element of False reporting, But knowing the statement is false is.
I would further note that false reports of a crime does not require absolutely knowing that what you are saying is false.
It only requires telling the police something that you do not know or have good reason to believe is true.
It is possible that you are a pedophile. But if I call the police and report that you are a pedophile. the fact that I do not know for certain that you are not, will not avoid conviction.
John B. Say,
After reading your long winded response I noticed a big flaw.
“It is a crime – a violation of the constitution, a violation of peoples civil rights for law enforcement to investigate a crime – when the allegation is know to be a hoax.“
It all hinges on the assumption that the FBI “knew” it was a hoax. Sadly that’s not really true. Some of the Steele dossier’s claims were corroborated. That was enough to launch an investigation as it is the FBI’s job. Upon investigating the corroborated claims further clues or more suspicious activities were uncovered. Trump shooting his mouth off and making more false claims just exacerbates it further pushing the FBI investigate. Trump is his own worst enemy.
“ Nope. The constitution protects free speech. There is not criminal liability for false claims – except specifically false claims to law enforcement for the purpose of subjecting others to criminal investigation.”
The constitution only protects your right to free speech. It does not protect you from investigation for what you say this is why you have the 5th amendment, you have a right to remain silent because anything you say can and will be used against you court. You don’t have to be arrested for this to apply. It’s a crime to lie to a law enforcement officer, but they can lie to you with impunity.
As for the exception you mention yes that is also true. And I’m sure you’re referring to Sussman reporting to the FBI. HOWEVER that is not what Sussman did despite your unsupported allegation that he did. Durham did not provide evidence that he did which is why Sussman was not guilty of the alleged crime.
“ The reason the statement was not material, is because the FBI knew it was false.
Materiality is not an element of False reporting, But knowing the statement is false is.”
The FBI didn’t know it was false. It couldn’t because some of the dossier’s claims were corroborated. You’re making the assumption that it was false for the FBI. Not they they deemed it false. Sussman wasn’t on a “mission” to give false information to the FBI as you allege. That’s purely conjecture on your part and conflating it as fact. This is why in reality Sussman was acquitted. Because of the facts.
The FBI didn’t know it was false. It couldn’t because some of the dossier’s claims were corroborated.
They certainly knew early on that nothing in the dossier that was used to open Crossfire Hurricane and subsequent FISA applications was not verifiable. As the Horrowitz report concluded:
Dossier-deflating references such as that populate the Horowitz report. Its global assessment is blunt: “The FBI concluded, among other things, that although consistent with known efforts by Russia to interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections, much of the material in the Steele election reports, including allegations about Donald Trump and members of the Trump campaign relied upon in the Carter Page FISA applications, could not be corroborated; that certain allegations were inaccurate or inconsistent with information gathered by the Crossfire Hurricane team; and that the limited information that was corroborated related to time, location, and title information, much of which was publicly available.”
Trump shooting his mouth off and making more false claims just exacerbates it further pushing the FBI investigate.
If shooting one’s mouth off or making false claims warranted an FBI investigation, they would have you on your front lawn in jammies.
Trump is his own worst enemy.
Only in the mind of those supporting the political weaponization of the FBI/DOJ.
Thanks.
I beleive the Horrowitz Report ALSO made it clear that whatever credibility the Steele Dossier had completely vaporized in Jan 2017 when Danchenko told the FBI is was all newspaper clippings and DNC Gossip.
That one finding in Horrowitz should have resulted in a special counsel to investigate both Crossfire Huricane and the Special Counsel. That Finding means EVERYTHING after that interview was illegal.
While Durham has not prosecuted anybody who should be prosecuted,
Durham has actually gone further than Horrowitz.
Durham has proven the Steele Dossier, The Alpha Bank hoax, were all known bogus FROM THE START.
Durham has moved the point of illegitimacy to approximately October 2016.
That is important because in undermines those parts of Horrowitz that tried to limit the scope of political bias and political corruption.
I would further note it is self evident – as we see more and more agents who were involved in XFH and the SC exposed as biased partisan hacks, that the DC office is nearly completely corrupt.
And these are the same people running the investigations of Trump and a small army of republicans.
When you have much the same people engaged in bad conduct and political misconduct in investigation after investigation, you have an actual conspiracy to violate peoples civil rights. Not a “theory” but reality.
John,
I understand the desire to not leave another Svelaz lie unaddressed, but at this point, two words and not 200 would be all that is necessary, if that: Lying Troll.
I am trying to make different arguments each time.
The collusion delusion is so bad, that it is wrong MANY ways.
It was obvious to me in October 2016 when I first heard the claim that it was stupid.
Putin would not pick Trump over Clinton.
I was really anoyed at Trump for his fawning pleas to Putin to release Clinton emails.
I strongly suspect Russia has them. I strongly suspect that if Clinton had been elected Putin would probably have released them. But he was not going to do anything to get Trump elected. I suspect he hated Clinton more than Trump. But it was in his and Russias best interests for Clinton to win. Just as it was in his and rusias best interest for Biden to win in 2020. And he has capitalized on that.
Olly and John, Svelaz is an idiot. He has taken all the mistruths and rewrote them into a story, wrong and contradictory. I am happy John writes these replies, not to convince you, Olly, and not to convince Svelaz. As he did with Anonymous the Stupid, John has created a FAQ where one puts the wrong answer in and the correct answer pops up. There is a lot of information there, some of which I didn’t know. Both of you write in your ways, always trying to adhere to the truth and common sense. That is what the blog is all about.
I don’t think many people have any respect for what Svelaz writes if they have been on the blog. Even those that agree with the ultimate conclusions Svelaz thinks he proves probably recognize Svelaz truths destroy all credibility of their counter-arguments, so they mostly stay clear. Most of John’s statements are verifiable.
RE:”I am happy John writes these..” I’d rather he found better fruit than the rot which has fallen to the ground.
ZZ, I am not sure what you mean. John has a particular point of view and is writing for John, not anyone else. I am happy with his responses, so I am interested in why anyone would not be. I like what you say as well. Is there something wrong with what I like? 🙂
“It all hinges on the assumption that the FBI “knew” it was a hoax. Sadly that’s not really true. ”
Except that it is not. The Sussman Trial literally PROVED that. Durham has actually proved it in his pleadings even though that is not his goal. And Danchenko has proved that in his pleadings.
Danchenko is highly unlikely to be convicted specifically because the FBI knew his product was garbage.
“Some of the Steele dossier’s claims were corroborated.”
You really know very little about this.
There are 3 inputs to the Steele Dossier
Rumors and gossip from the DNC and a few other sources. Even if these had proved accidentally true, they do not ever meet the standard for an investigation. Regardless none were true.
Claims Danchenko made up.
Information form Press clippings that Glenn Simpson had collected over the years. These for the most part were “true”. But they also were not crimes. It is as an example True that Trump hosted a beauty pagent in Russia.
“That was enough to launch an investigation as it is the FBI’s job.”
Wrong on both points. The FBI is at all times constrained by the constitution. And the constitution bars government from willing nilly invading peoples privacy, and that is what investigating them is.
You do not seem to grasp that ALL investigations violate peoples constitutional rights.
Only investigations that meet critical requirements – such as a credible allegation of a crime allow violating those rights. Nor is it black and white. The standard that must be met to open an investigation is not as high as the standard that must be met to get a warrant which is not as high as is needed to make an arrest.
But ALL investigative steps require an allegation of a crime and some evidence to support that crime.
You say some things in the Steele Dossier were true – that is correct – as I noted it was true that Trump ran a beauty pagent in Russia. A few true facts in the steele dossier get you nowhere. There are no allegations in the Steele Dossier that have credible evidence to support them. That is an issue that has long ago been resolved.
Worse still there are no criminal allegations in the steele dossier that were not made up – AND the FBI knew that from the start.
“Upon investigating”
Full Stop – the Steele Dossier does not meet the constitutional standards required to even open an investigation.
You do not seem to grasp that.
My calling you a pedophile will not result in the FBI knocking on your door. To get an investigation of YOU, I am going to have to demonstrate that I credibly KNOW that you are a pedophile.
“the corroborated claims further clues or more suspicious activities were uncovered.”
False. The only things in the Steele Dossier that were ever corroborated were the things from Glenn Simpson’s newspaper clippings. Things like Trump ran a beauty pagent in Russia. ALL criminal allegations were not only know false from the start but FAILED to corroborate even the slightest detail. The “pee tape” was gossip from the DNC.
Efforts to prove that any tiny bit of the gossip was true FAILED.
“Trump shooting his mouth off and making more false claims just exacerbates it further pushing the FBI investigate. Trump is his own worst enemy.”
You keep saying this. But even if it was True – it would be a crime on the part of the FBI.
The FBI can not investigate someone for shooting off their mouth.
They can not investigate them for pissing on the FBI publicly.
There are constitutional requirements – written in the constitution and developed through centuries of caselaw as well as in formal rules that the DOJ and FBI have for investigations. You meet these or your actions are lawless.
They were NEVER met.
“The constitution only protects your right to free speech. It does not protect you from investigation for what you say”
It absolutely does if what you say is not evidence of a crime.
” It’s a crime to lie to a law enforcement officer”
Nope. It is a federal crime to lie to a government agent in the course of an investigation about something material that misdirects the investigation. That law 18 US 1001 should have been declared unconstitutional long ago. Even Ginsberg found that it was overly broad. Regardless, you can lie to local police all you want. You can lie to state police. It is not a good idea, but it is not a crime.
“but they can lie to you with impunity.” Not completely true either. They can not lie to induce you to waive your rights.
They can not lie about your rights.
“As for the exception you mention yes that is also true. And I’m sure you’re referring to Sussman reporting to the FBI. HOWEVER that is not what Sussman did despite your unsupported allegation that he did. Durham did not provide evidence that he did which is why Sussman was not guilty of the alleged crime.”
You really are unfamiliar with this. Durham proved Sussman lied. Sussman admitted that he lied, The Jury found that he lied. They decided it did not matter – because the FBI knew he was lying.
It is litterally a finding of fact by a jury that the FBI knew Sussman was lying.
“The FBI didn’t know it was false.”
You are off in la la land – please go read the findings of the Jury and their remarks.
“It couldn’t because some of the dossier’s claims were corroborated.”
There are no criminal allegations in the Steele dossier that were Ever corroborated. This is well known.
There are not even criminal allegations that were not known false by Jan 2017.
You are totally unfamiliar with the facts and keep insisting that things that are now well known as false – and were well known to the DOJ/FBI as false very early in the investigation are somehow magically true.
They are not. Absolutely many “innocent facts” within the steele dossier were corroborated.
Trump did run a beauty pagent in Russia – the entire world knew than and did not need the Steele dossier.
“You’re making the assumption that it was false for the FBI.”
NO I am dealing with actual findings of fact – mostly findings by courts.
“Sussman wasn’t on a “mission” to give false information to the FBI as you allege. That’s purely conjecture on your part and conflating it as fact.”
Not conjecture. You do not seem to understand that Both Sussman and Danchenko’s defense is
“we were selling BS to the FBI/DOJ AND THEY KNEW IT”
And that is what the Sussman jury found – Sussman lied, the FBI knew it was a lie, therefore no crime.
That is why Sussman was acquitted – as determined by the Jury.
That is why Danchenko is likely to be acquitted. Danchenko’s has a slightly harder case. He is not a Clinton crony.
He will be portrayed by Durham as a Russian stooge. It is possible that a DC jury might see him as a perfect patsy.
And convicting him will give cover to the FBI/DOJ.
But Danchenko is still likely to be acquitted.
Durham has produced some damning evidence. But mostly the evidence Damn’s DOJ/FBI
Danchenko has himself produced even more compelling evidence that DOJ/FBI knew the dossier was a hoax.
“This is why in reality Sussman was acquitted. Because of the facts.”
Yes, the FACT that the DOJ/FBI knew that he was lying.
Here is the problem: Bill Clinton said he didn’t know how bad the situation in Rwanda was, so he didn’t intervene in time.
1. He never intervened. He lied.
2. He knew exactly what was happening in Rwanda as it happened. He was fully informed. He lied.
3. He defied/broke the Proxmire Act which required, legally, that the U.S. intervene in the event that a holocaust was taking place. He’s a criminal.
4. Because he broke the law, 800,000 black folks perished unnecessarily while the U.S. stood back and did nothing.
The Media, our “free press” is accountable for allowing Clinton to perpetrate this massacre.
5. The Media pursue Trump like they should be pursuing the American President who compares to Hitler.
If they could cover-up Clinton’s liability in the slaughter of 800,000 human beings, they will never report anything harmful to their own cause.
What happened in Rwanda is despicable.
Clinton was absolutely abysmal with respect to foreign policy.
As a rule the US should not intervene in matters that are not in our national interests.
I think there is a good argument that we should have intervened here.
And that it would have been effective.
If there is law that requires the president to intervene – that law is unconstitutional regardless of good intentions.
It is arguable that there are instance when the consent of congress is required for a president to intervene.
It is not constitutionally arguable that congress can a priori compel a president to intervene.
I am not a Clinton fan – though he makes Bush, Obama and Biden like like Buffoons.
I would have impeached and removed him in a minute.
….Svelaz…(Witherspoon…) ..so adroit in giving yet another underhanded bashing of Trump in the disguise of being objective…..
The extent of your Trump derangement syndrome is bottomless.
There NEVER was a basis for investigating Trump.
What this exposes is the extent to which Mueller and his band of angry democrats went to HIDE that.
I find it odd that Durham is providing this information now – because while it is about Danchenko, it is exculpatory, it makes Danchenko appear less guilty but is damning to the DOJ/FBI/SC.
You do not seem to understand that we do not live in a police state.
Government may not investigate whoever it pleases.
Our constitution precludes government from enquiring into your actions, your life absent reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in criminal conduct.
Multiple know HOAXs that government is protecting from enquiry are NOT a basis for reasonable suspicion.
So what was the foundation for Crossfire Huricane ? What was the foundation for the Special Counsel ?
What evidence independent of:
The Steele Dossier Hoax.
The Alpha Bank Hoax
The Papadoulis Email hoax
was the foundation for the investigation ?
You do not seem to understand that it is abuse of power to investigate people just because you want to.
To have TDS, one must have more intellect than the reptilian brain is capable of having. Svelaz has proven himself to be intellectually disabled and a liar, so I don’t know if TDS can apply to him.
S. Meyer, hurling insults doesn’t detract from your own flawed arguments. Heck, over half the time you just post incoherent ramblings demonstrating your need to project your own shortcomings on others.
Svelaz, those aren’t insults. They are the truth. You are intellectually dishonest, and almost everything you say is wrong. You aren’t embarrassed by the number of errors meaning a lack of self-awareness, or you are paid to comment in this fashion. Either way, my comments hold.
John B. Ssy.
“ There NEVER was a basis for investigating Trump.”
Oh yes there was. At the time Trump was running for office his ties to Russia and the sketchy meetings and claims that Russias had compromising information on Trump REQUIRED the FBI to investigate. It’s their job. At the time everything from the Steele dossier to the Trump tower meetings and his business deals in Moscow, and the fact that Russia did want to help Trump win, all had to be investigated. It’s how we find out whether the allegations are true or not.
That was not an abuse of power. It was literally the FBI’s job to investigate the allegations. Some of which did turn out to be true.
“ There NEVER was a basis for investigating Trump.”
“Oh yes there was. At the time Trump was running for office his ties to Russia and the sketchy meetings and claims that Russias had compromising information on Trump REQUIRED the FBI to investigate. It’s their job.”
Not at all. The FBI investigates allegations of crimes. BTW Clinton has 10,000 times more sketchy ties to Russia and was not investigated for her russian ties. Biden has massive ties to russia and china – and was not investigated.
Everything you are ranting about is the responsibility of the PRESS not government.
” At the time everything from the Steele dossier to the Trump tower meetings and his business deals in Moscow,”
None a basis for investigation.
Law enforcement investigates Crimes.
” and the fact that Russia did want to help Trump win”
A statement that is proof of delusion.
Absolutely Putin wanted the candidate that was going to release the Fracken,
Force NATO members to build their defenses.
Acheive US energy independence.
Oppose European energy dependence on Russia.
Reduce the US involvement in the mideast and increase european responsibility their.
Decrease the idiotic and suicidal climate war on energy that empowers beligerant countries like Russia.
You Putin was going to favor the candidate most harmful to Russia, instead of the one he had already bought and paid for. Instead of the one receiving hundreds of millions from russian oligarchs. Instead of the one whose husband receives a $0.5M fee for a single speech in Russia. Instead of the candidate that pushed he Uranium One deal with Russia.
Those of you on the left must think Putin is a complete idiot.
“all had to be investigated”
Again government investigates crimes.
“it’s how we find out whether the allegations are true or not.”
Unless it is a crime it does not matter if it is true.
If the allegation is a criminal one – then it must meet constitutional standards to be investigated.
The Collusion delusion never did.
“That was not an abuse of power. It was literally the FBI’s job to investigate the allegations.”
Nope – it was an unconstitutional abuse of power.
You have a very bizarre idea of what the legitimate purpose of law enforcement and criminal investigations is.
“Some of which did turn out to be true.”
Can you name a single criminal allegation that was true ?
Can you name a single substantative allegation that was true ?
RE:”””Stating that does not make it true especially when compiling evidence shows that you’re dead wrong.”” You’ll never get back the time you lose investing in long-winded responses to Svelaz, Short, sweet, and to the point. The Danchenko game has been on deck for some time now and is ready for its at bat. Outcomes will speak truth to Svelaz but don’t expect a retraction if they speak truth.
Is there anyone that expects a DC Jury to convict Danchenko ?
Frankly Danchenko does not really appear to be guilty of anything.
This Damn’s the FBI and particularly Mueller who continued an investigation for almost 2 years after he KNEW it rested on multiple HOAX’s. And worse he hired Danchenko to prevent congressional investigations from figuring out that he was pushing a hoax.
The question here is why is it that those involved in this – the Mueller Team, The Crossfire Huricane team are not all being perp walked to jail right now – rather than their victims.
I think it goes to Virginia or Maryland.
“ The question here is why is it that those involved in this – the Mueller Team, The Crossfire Huricane team are not all being perp walked to jail right now – rather than their victims.”
Because your claims are not based on the facts. Durham didn’t have evidence to make a conviction stick.
RE:” Durham didn’t have evidence to make a conviction stick…” …or, rather. ‘The Comey Factor” “””In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. Although we don’t normally make public our recommendations to the prosecutors, we frequently make recommendations and engage in productive conversations with prosecutors about what resolution may be appropriate, given the evidence. In this case, given the importance of the matter, I think unusual transparency is in order.
Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes……….. our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past”””” We shall see how the ‘Danchenko Gambit’ rolls out. Perhaps an ‘October Surprise’?
Of course he did. We know most of the evidence already.
Durham is going after people like Susman and Danchenko whose conduct is repugnant but not really criminal,
No one has the balls to go after those in the FBI and DOJ who betrayed their oaths.
Violating someone’s civil rights is a federal crime.
The LA Cops who beat up rodney King were convicted of violating his civil rights.
Durham should be charging people in the FBI and DOJ for violating the civil rights of Carter Page, that is low hanging fruit.
As Durham has demonstrated repeatedly – the DOJ/FBI KNEW the whole collusion delusion was a Hoax from the start. Susman was aquitted Because the Jury was smart enough to KNOW that the FBI/DOJ knew they were being lied to. They did not care. They were going to use that Lie to trample anyone that got in their way. They were going to “Get Trump” and anyone near him – “by any means necescary”.
You do not seem to understand – that is criminal. Using a hoax as the fig leaf to abuse the power of government to F’over others is criminal. It is a civil rights violation.
These people should lose their jobs, their pensions, and spend time in jail – as well is being sued civilly.
But our institutions reflect the corrupt values of those like you.
I will be holding my nose and making the same arguments when these people come after you and yours.
As repugnant as I find your values – I will defend your right to free speech and your right to be left alone, when you have done nothing illegal.
But we all know that for you people only have rights, if they share your views.
“ As Durham has demonstrated repeatedly – the DOJ/FBI KNEW the whole collusion delusion was a Hoax from the start.”
Durham couldn’t use the ‘evidence” he had in court because he didn’t have evidence. All he had was conjecture and allegations. Durham could have charged Sussman with the crime that you allege he committed, but Durham was smart enough to know that he didn’t have evidence to back up the allegations of a hoax. The FBI couldn’t dismiss the entire dossier because some of the allegations in it were corroborated.
RE:”The FBI couldn’t dismiss the entire dossier because some of the allegations in it were corroborated.” What was corroborated that remains incontrovertible fact today and might still serve to support the continuance of that investigation which was blown up.
You are so confused.
Yes, there was evidence excluded from the trial.
Evidence that probably should have been let in.
But that is not relevant to what we are debating.
You do not seem to understand that Susman presented the claim that the FBI knew he was selling snake oil.
Danchenko is presenting a bigger version fo the same evidence.
As to what was excluded at trial. it is Still evidence. It is still true. it is not relevant to our argument.
But the inadmissibility of specific evidence in a specific trial against one person does not discredit that evidence.
One of the reasons that Durham did not charge Sussman with false reports is that oddly it has a much shorted sentence – despite being a more serious crime.
There was also some problems with statute of limitations.
I think they were solveable
Durham has faced major statute of limitations issues from the start.
The FBI/DOJ and Mueller ran the clock out on lots of crimes associated with the Collusion Delusion.
“The FBI couldn’t dismiss the entire dossier because some of the allegations in it were corroborated.”
Not a single one.
A few facts that could be found in newspapers were correct, but absolutely ZERO criminal allegations were correct.
And Horrowitz told us the FBI/DOJ knew that by Mide Jan 2017.
But both Durham and Danchenko are saying the FBI knew the Dossier was a hoax by sometime in October.
Sometimes the best trial is in the court of public opinion. That’s why the FBI shielded Hunter Biden. They feared it would defeat Biden in the vote. Hopefully the Hunter Biden Laptop Gambit will finally prove out thisvtime.
“ The question here is why is it that those involved in this – the Mueller Team, The Crossfire Huricane team are not all being perp walked to jail right now – rather than their victims.”
The answer is very simple. Because there was no “hoax”.
The investigations continued because evidence kept surfacing that corroborated some of the claims in the Steele dossier. The FBI couldn’t dismiss the whole thing if some of the allegations in the dossier were credible.
Svelaz – we are way way way past any questions about whether the Alpha Bank or the Steele Dossier were a Hoax.
Everyone Durham has indicted is falling all over themselves saysing – “It was a hoax and the FBI Knew it”.
It has taken years for the rest of us to learn what the FBI knew at the start.
But now we do. The Steele dossier and the Alpha Bank claims are HOAXES
Deliberately manufactured by the Clinton campaign at Hillary’s direction.
That is not ethical – but it is legal – or Durham would have indicted Clinton.
RE:”Svelaz – we are way way way past any questions ..” Good grief! Why do we spend our precious time with this tripe! We’ll never get it back. I couldn’t resist responding to it myself, but avoided wasting words.
The question here is why is it that those involved in this – the Mueller Team, The Crossfire Huricane team are not all being perp walked to jail right now – rather than their victims.”
The answer is very simple. Because there was no “hoax”.
The investigations continued because evidence kept surfacing that corroborated some of the claims in the Steele dossier. The FBI couldn’t dismiss the whole thing if some of the allegations in the dossier were credible.
Please allow us to know what in this Steele “Dossier” was actually true and was not fabricated by someone involved in Crossfire Hurricane!
Bravo S.W. for exposing one of the most slick ‘deep state’ trolls,, with the handle of ‘Svelaz…’
eighteenthhole wrote, “Bravo S.W. for exposing one of the most slick ‘deep state’ trolls, with the handle of ‘Svelaz…’ “
Actually he drops his pants and exposes himself to the entire world with almost every comment he posts here, I simply choose to be one of the commenters that emphasizes the utter lackingness of what he dangles in our faces. 😉
What was a conspiracy theory that I thought laughable a few years ago, has now presented itself in so many forms, in public records and reports and trials, by whistleblowers, and by concerted selective investigation/enforcement, that now one has to be a fevered conspiracy nut NOT to believe it is going on. Either that or a pathological skeptic.
Either way, it is clear they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore.
It is irrelevant what you wish to call it.
There is inarguably a very large number of people within the government who were and are working towards the common cause of thwarting Trump. They did so before he was president, while he was president and after.
These range from Obama and Biden to Klinesmith. These people bent and broke the law and conducted unconstitutional investigations.
And they were aided, abetted and cheered on by those in government outside of law enforcement.
I have no problem calling that the “deep state”
Regardless, it is evil and it must go.
You are clearly unfamiliar with the Sussman case – or the Danchenko Case.
Durham lost the Sussman case – and he likely will lose the Danchenko case, because the DEFENDANTS argued that they were just doing what the “deep state” wanted.
Durham’s case rests on the claim that But for the lies of Danchenko and Sussman the DOJ/FBI/SC would not have conducted an unconstitutional investigation.
Danchenko’s and Sussman’s defense is that DOJ/FBI/SC KNEW what we were saying was a lie. They were going to conduct an unconstitutional investigation by whatever means possible.
OK, I’ll play. Let us see the evidence. Citable. Real, demonstrative, documentary, testimonial, or digital in any combination. In sufficient quality and quantity where a reasonable prosecutor agrees to and a judge signs off on an affidavit. The affected U.S.C. as well, please. It’s a nice word salad though. Just saying “deep state” doesn’t cut it.
Oh, it goes way back further than that. The difference is that they now have the FBI, CIA and the intelligence community doing their bidding.
I never would have guessed that using the phrase deep state in the manner in which I did would rile up progressive trolls trying to protect their lying anti-Trump propaganda narratives but what these fools logically ignore is that I could have written that entire comment without using the phrase “deep state” even once and instead used a phrase like “a network of government and non government individuals operating extralegally” and I would have conveyed the exact same message. Regardless of the phrase used, the same collusion indicating the same witch hunt soft coup to take down the sitting President of the United States is there.
It appears that progressive tools loose their sh!t when they see the phrase “deep state” and can’t think critically about what’s actually being said, so they dive straight into their usual attack the messenger propaganda lie narratives that it’s a conspiracy theory and anyone that uses the phrase is a conspiracy nut.
Again; “The political left has shown its pattern of propaganda lies within their narratives so many times since 2016 that it’s beyond me why anyone would blindly accept any narrative that the political left and their lapdog media actively push?”
Remember…
I’ve stated what I came here to state, I’m choosing not to feed the trolls today.
Let the unethical anti-Witherspoon trolling continue.
Taking your Deep State and going home? Your diatribe seems to be attributing to malice when you should be thinking garden variety vanity, greed, laziness, etc. It’s a human condition, not specific to a political party…but that doesn’t support your narrative.
So who will be held accountable = no one. This nation had better gain back it’s equilibrium fast.
RE:”So who will be held accountable = no one” Only the electorate can hold them so.
ZZDoc says:
RE:”So who will be held accountable = no one” Only the electorate can hold them so.
Maybe, if the definition holds true???
Electorate, body of qualified voters.
After their interview with Danchenko in January 2017 the FBI knew he had no significant Russian sources and that his contributions to the Steele dossier had no validity. So what was their ostensible reason for hiring him?
Techno Fog speculates that the FBI made Danchenko a CHS to shield him from investigation.
Because by labeling him a confidential human source they could redact information about him with regard to house and senate and IG investigations.
Why should we be surprised that “everyone in this scandal was six degrees from Brookings”? Brookings has been in league with the FBI to promote Biden’s “Great White Threat” theory. In an April 2021 paper by Brookings senior fellow Daniel L. Byman (a professor at Georgetown), the FBI is extolled for its classification of “white supremacy” alongside that of Isis in terms of the threat to national security. In keeping with this thesis, Trump is vilified: “During its four years in office, the Trump administration increased public fears of white supremacist violence because of its perceived toleration, and at times even encouragement, of white supremacism.” Byman uses the debunked Charlottesville claim by Trump that there were “very fine people” on both sides of the issue, ignoring the fact that this statement was made not about the rioters or white supremacists but, instead, the claim that Confederate statures were reminders of slavery and oppression. So, we have Brookings and the FBI twinned in their disdain for Trump. Has anything really changed with empty-suit Chris Wray at the wheel?
Surprised there is not a post-mortem here today for Kenneth Starr, who could not see a Clinton scandal which did not require endless investigation and prosecution, and could not see a Trump scandal or a Baylor college football scandal that requires anything but looking the other way.
Not that far off from Turley.
It was revealed this week that Barr’s Justice Department was pressuring US Attorneys to indict Democrats after they indicted Republicans to even things out.
Durham was appointed by Barr to do this same thing in this investigation. The fact that he could not really find as much wrongdoing by Democrats has led him to invent some and have a spectacular loss in court.
Source ?
Durham has found and exposed massive amounts of wrongdoing.
He has two problems – first he keeps trying to prosecute those outside the govenrment whose conduct is immoral but not illegal. Rather than those inside govenrment whole violated their oaths and who violated peoples constitutional rights.
Second convicting anyone who opposes Trump in DC will never happen.
“So the FBI cut off Steele as a paid source after he allegedly worked with the media to spread these unproven claims. It then turned around and hired his principle source for the dossier.”
*********************************
I would expect nothing less from the Stasi that took over our FBI. The Dims are ruthless tyrants. Sic Semper …
There should be a Special Master to oversee Durham’s Bullsh!t investigation, which has gone on longer than Mueller’s has wasted millions and has produced nothing but an acquittal on a trumped up charge.
Durham has exposed massive amounts of misconduct.
Sussman and Danchenko’s conduct was immoral but not illegal.
The real crimes took place inside government.
It is inarguable at this time that Mueller knew shortly after being appointed that the was not a basis to continue to investigate Trump. And yet he illegally and unconstitutionally did.
Durham has exposed that – even if he has not prosecuted it.
Mr. Turley, the Steele Dossier was not “Russian Disinformation” it is Obama/Clinton and FBI fabrication for a political coup attempt. Nothing more, nothing less. Developed at the top levels of the US Government.The fact that those involved have skated criminal indictment is disheartening.
MRR, I think the allegation is (and it is not Turley’s) is that a few of the 13-14 Steele 2016 memos that some call collectively a dossier were planted by Russian intelligence agents. I haven’t looked at the Steele 2016 memos in years so I cannot tell you which ones they are (the Cohen in Prague memo might be one) but no one alleges that all 13-14 are Russian disinformation. It’s simply that as soon as Russia saw what Clinton was up to in the summer of 2016, it got in on the fun
Cohen was never in Prague, on those dates. I’ll explain exactly how that started but I doubt you are interested in facts.
I’ll leave a trail. It starts with 702 lookups. If that is an unknown, you only use the Democrat Propaganda media for information.
The operatives working for the Criminal Deep State haven’t “skated criminal indictment.” Criminal indictment was never in the cards for those operatives. They knew they were protected at all times by the Criminal Deep State. There was zero risk to them at all times. That’s the nature of our sacred and esteemed Two-Tier System of Justice.
Pne of Durham’s revalations is that Danchenko was under investigation in the past as a russian spy, that he likely was, that FBI/DOJ knew that, and that in addition to the Steele Dossier being DNC rumours and gossip, that there is also possible russian disinformation.
Put differently – it was the clinton campain not the Trump campaign that unwittingly colloborated with Putin.
I’m shocked to learn that the FBI has engaged in criminal activities and continues to do so. Shocked, I tell you!
So this guy was looking for classified information to sell to the Russians?
I know a guy at Mar-a-Lago who has a bunch to sell.
So…I wonder if you are also looking for a brain for sell. I hear you and Biden are looking for one.
That would be “a brain to buy”, not sell.
He won’t sell, but you would sell anything for money lester.
We need to all ask ourselves, when is this eagerness coming for you?
I’d argue that we’re seeing it in pursuit of the Jan 6th individuals. The FBI is pursing anyone who they are told had a connection to Jan 6th.
If you feel good about that, realize the precedent has now been set. At some future point, you will face the police state.
RE:”At some future point, you will face the police state.”….so take care that you don’t piss off your neighbor. You might get a visit from the FBI with a subpoena telling you that an anonymous source informed them that you were in DC on Jan 6th. Be prepared to prove otherwise. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-backer-says-fbi-showed-up-at-her-home-after-she-voiced-support-online/ar-AA11KURH
It is misleading to say the FBI “later” put Danchenko on its payroll. Steele was fired one day (not because he was lying but because he violated the rules of being an informant and Nunes exposed him for it) and the next day FBI criminals Strozk and McCabe and Comey put Steele’s actual source, Danchenko, on its payroll (so probably indirectly still paying Steele)