Below is my column in the Hill on the claims that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) and other governors are committing crimes ranging from kidnapping to human trafficking in shipping undocumented immigrants to other states. The claims are legally baseless. While MSNBC regular Elie Mystal said this week, “kidnapping is a thing,” it is just not “this thing.” While insisting that migrants should be seen as a “blessing,” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has declared the free trips to be “crimes against humanity.” Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-Cal.) has also demanded criminal investigations even though Newsom, as mayor of San Francisco, shipped homeless people “back home” to other cities with free bus tickets. There are now threats of some blue states suing as well as New York City but those lawsuits are likely to fail absent evidence of systemic fraud or coercion. These migrants are allowed to engage in interstate travel and other states can facilitate such travel.
Here is the column:
Moves by Govs. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.), Gregg Abbott (R-Texas) and Doug Ducey (R-Ariz.) to transport undocumented migrants to sanctuary cities beyond their states have produced a torrent of denunciation and claims of racism as being (in the words of one writer) the work of “white supremacists, relying on [a] racism-and-spite blueprint.”
Some pundits and Democratic politicians, such as Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-Calif.), have called for criminal investigations by the Justice Department on discrimination, fraud, “kidnapping or potential Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) charges.” DeSantis’ Democratic challenger in November, Charlie Crist, echoed calls for a federal investigation of his own state, declaring: “Justice needs to be served here.”
While these objections risk proving the intended political point of the trips, they do not prove a crime. If Attorney General Merrick Garland were to yield to this pressure, he would saw off the very branch of government on which his department sits.
Although Martha’s Vineyard previously declared itself a sanctuary for migrants, it declared a “humanitarian crisis” this week when some 50 individuals were flown there from Florida, and it denounced their arrival as a potentially criminal act.
Other leaders, such as D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser, have demanded the deployment of the National Guard when border states shipped migrants to their jurisdictions. In Illinois, Gov. J.B. Pritzker did precisely that — called out the Guard.
The border-state governors have responded that the groups bussed or flown to other jurisdictions are just a tiny percentage of those pouring over their borders, projected to be more than 2 million this year alone.
Yet Newsom’s demand that the Justice Department prosecute such transfers would create a dangerous precedent, one that might backfire on the Biden administration.
The Biden administration has transported thousands of migrants across the country with little public notice, including late-night flights denounced by Republicans as clandestine “ghost flights.” Those transfers have been defended by Democrats and others as standard practice in the past three administrations. This, as thousands of migrants regularly overwhelm border towns despite administration officials — including Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and, most recently, Vice President Kamala Harris — insisting the border is secure.
The trips arranged by the three Republican governors have been denounced as a political stunt. And, indeed, they are — but they are not criminal acts, absent new evidence of compulsion or fraud. There are reports of some migrants demanding to be allowed off buses en route to New York, and some migrants are quoted as saying they were induced with promises of opportunities or care in sanctuary cities. Yet there is no evidence of systemic fraud or misrepresentation. Moreover, even if there was misrepresentation, it would not constitute some of the crimes being claimed on cable television, including Hillary Clinton declaring that it constitutes “literally human trafficking.”
Most migrants do not intend to remain in border communities with a huge influx of migrants and limited opportunities — one reason why the Biden administration has moved migrants elsewhere. Thus, if the administration pursued Newsom’s allegation of a possible “civil rights conspiracy in violation of 42 U.S.C. section 1985,” it would potentially make a case against itself. If these governors are discriminating on the basis of national origin, so is the administration.
Let’s consider a few of the other alleged crimes suggested by politicians and pundits:
Kidnapping, human trafficking
The claim by Newsom and others that this could constitute kidnapping is absurd. Kidnapping requires that the culprit “unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds for ransom or reward or otherwise any person.” There is nothing unlawful in conveying individuals who are lawfully in the country pending their immigration hearings; the trips are voluntary, and most migrants appear eager to accept free passage to cities like New York or Chicago.
Human trafficking — a charge suggested by some law professors — is prosecuted by the Justice Department when you exploit “a person for labor, services, or commercial sex.” Gov. DeSantis may have overt political motives for transporting migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, but even cable-news programs have not suggested he is doing so for sexual or labor exploitation.
Racketeering
RICO was designed to combat organized crime by allowing criminal charges based on a pattern of underlying criminal acts. Under 18 U.S.C. § 1961 there is a list of “predicate offenses,” and at least two of those crimes can create the needed pattern for prosecution. But there is no established RICO pattern here because there are no established predicate crimes. An effort by the Biden administration to designate political opponents as “racketeers” would raise deeply troubling concerns about weaponizing the criminal justice system.
Illegal transport
One of the most-cited bases for criminal prosecution has been 8 U.S. Code § 1324, which prohibits transporting or attempting to transport undocumented migrants. The law is designed to combat smugglers, not states offering free trips to those released into the country by the federal government. It requires an act of “knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact” that the migrant “has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law.”
These trips, however, are not in violation of law or “in furtherance of such violation of law.” The Biden administration’s controversial “catch and release” policy means migrants are free to go anywhere or accept trips from public interest groups, the federal government or the states.
In theory, public interest groups arranging for transportation or individuals giving rides to migrants could be prosecuted on the same basis under Section 1324. In reality, if transporting undocumented migrants after they are released into the country is to be judged criminal, then the Biden administration would be the largest “coyote” in history.
None of this, of course, may prevent Attorney General Garland from using these wild accusations to launch a federal investigation. Biden officials are reportedly discussing options for legal action. Garland may yield to such demands. After all, he was criticized for creating a nationwide task force at the behest of school boards to investigate parents who publicly challenged board members over issues like teaching critical race theory or diversity policies. Such a move would magnify concerns about the Justice Department being used for political purposes before the midterm election.
The governors’ critics are correct: These trips are politically motivated. That is precisely why the proper response is also political, not criminal. Using the criminal code to amplify political points is a dangerous precedent. Frustrating though it may be for sanctuary cities to face an influx of undocumented migrants, criminal irony still is not an offense under the federal code.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. Follow him on Twitter @JonathanTurley.
If the National Socialist Workers (aka Democrat) Party pursues a criminal complaint, then it will certainly be wrapped around 8 U.S. Code § 1324. It would make a plausible headline on the Minitrue’s chyrons that there were several transportees who were not first “caught and released” by ICE. And after that idea soaks into the American Lemming’s subconscious for a couple weeks, Herr Heinrich Garland will find or invent at least one instance of, ahem, “an undocumented Undocumented” with which to trump up charges for some kangaroo D.C. court. This level of lunacy can only be maintained by the boot of tyranny (well, or a dark comedy franchise like Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy).
The liberal elite (e.g. Obamas, Spike Lee, Beyonce, Oprah, Valerie Jarrett, aka people of color) of Martha’s Vineyard treated the 50 immigrants the same way any group of left-wing, virtue-signaling, atheists, sanctuary supporters would treat them. They opened a GoFundMe account to support their local charities, and then had 150 National Guard personnel take the 50 immigrants to their island border and tossed them onto a ferry so as to deport them to a military base. Guantanamo Base in Cuba was too far to swim apparently. It was surprising Doktur Jill TM did not arrive with breakfast tacos to serve the
hired helpLatinx😉
their GoFundMe account was deleted but the internet is forever.
https://archive.ph/CJEMD
“Urgent plea to help Martha’s Vineyard migrants”
$38,630 raised of $30,000 goal
425 donations
“However, the island is a resort community with only 20,000 year-round residents, and it already faces a shortage of affordable housing and off-season jobs.”
“The liberal elite (e.g. Obamas, Spike Lee, Beyonce, Oprah, Valerie Jarrett, aka people of color) of Martha’s Vineyard” don’t spend time on MV this time of year. The affluent only go in the summer, when the weather there is nice, not when it’s already getting cold. If you’re going to blame the people who live in MV year round, don’t lie about who you’re actually talking about.
Estovir,
I.m glad you found the time to stop back by & post, I suffer the same time/etc., issues.
I glad that the Commie/Fascist Democrats & the Rino Republicans have now fully shown to everyone what Human Hating Azzholes they are.
It doesn’t matter what color anyone is, they’re Racist,etc. & they hate us/ & attacking us all
I/m tried, but everyone needs to focus on those DAMNED US/EU Central Bankers/BIS/IMF/ETC., let us all give them the straw hat & a leaf blower!!!! Ph’kers
Estovir, your comment made me chuckle. “Guantanamo Base in Cuba was too far to swim apparently.”
There seems to be a cognitive dissonance on a massive public scale for so many to run interference for the NIMBYs of Martha’s Vineyard. They only want illegals to mow their lawns, clean their toilets, and babysit their kids. Not, actually, gasp, to live near them.
“there is no evidence of systemic fraud or misrepresentation”
That’s not true, as the fake “brochure” presented to the migrants demonstrates: https://popular.info/p/the-smoking-gun-in-marthas-vineyard
Is Turley ignorant of this, or is he instead lying to his readers?
🤣🤣🤣 This is fake. Liberals are a bunch of virtue signaling pandering morons.
And they only need one to say “I was duped”….no informed consent. And then remind desantis of the Arizona vs us case…..about federal premption. He’s on thin ice. And will get slapped with probably tort suits under 1983.. But he is ferdinhan. If they charged him….States would succeed and it would be civil war. That’s my crystal ball.
Does it matter? States have the right to exclude…..that’s always been. Re-read scalia’s dissent in Arizona vs us. States have the right to exclude. From the beginning….if our compact…….this is the next challenge. Their constitutions predate Aaraizona bill. Consider it a challenge to our foundation……this time the Supremes will have to address….States rights. This time…they will have to conceived some states won’t stay in the union….this time is different….we are being chicken invaded…so this time is different. What if Florida passed a law…that anyone who have housing to an illegal was a felon? Does Biden run housing law? Dramatic could pass that law in a heart beat……and where would all these vagabond go? He could ex-spell them from his state…..as vagabons. But he dissent go that far because he understands what the feds are up to. So he makes a point to the people. A good point. What is wrong with that?
Illegal deportation is as ethical, moral and legal as illegal immigration.
“Asylum” is a communist (liberal, repressive, socialist, democrat, RINO) “workaround.”
“Asylum” will soon include 7.9 billion people on earth who are “repressed” and “oppressed” by their respective governments.
When the American Founders discovered tyranny, they terminated it with extreme prejudice and corrected the situation by themselves in their own country.
The Israelite slaves were out of Egypt before the ink was dry on their release papers, but then, they possessed the ambition, capacity and acumen sufficient to the task.
Lincoln high-criminally and unconstitutionally abrogated the Naturalization Act of 1802.
Can you tell us more about this 1802? And in it weave that throughout history….conquers have conquered by migration. A definite tactic of Persians….but may la Rasa be copy cats? Just curious.
The quote by OAC “‘It’s appalling that far-right politicians seem to have decided that fall BEFORE AN ELECTION IS THEIRE REGULARY SCHEDCULT TIME time to commit crimes against humanity on refugees,’ she wrote. Emphasis added. This is satire or exaggeration referring to GOP shenanigans (true or not) at pre-election periods not an accusation.
These people are both demented and evil. They could care less about southern border towns being inundated with thousands of unvetted, unvaccinated and mostly uneducated illegal immigrants overwhelming their public health, public education and public safety systems not to mention housing. They don’t care about the human trafficking or flow of drugs into inner cities. These progressive sanctimonious hypocrites need not worry about their safety, their children’s schools or their access to medical care as they live in wealthy suburbs isolated from the consequences of their policies. The modern progressive is cruel, inhumane and at heart a racist; just like their predecessors in left wing authoritarian dictatorships. My only complaint is why did the governors not do this in the summer when the real targets were vacationing there in their multimillion dollar compounds.
And you can blame Joe Biden for opening the border, inviting them in with promises of utopia…. The blood is all over his hands. How many deaths have to happen before he closes the border???
https://nypost.com/2022/09/19/migrant-mom-commits-suicide-in-nyc-shelter-mayor-adams/
WHEN are you Cult 45’ers going to stop lying about Biden “opening the border, inviting them in with promises of utopia”. THESE ARE VICIOUS LIES that come from alt-right media. VP Harris made a trip south of the border and TOLD these people “don’t come here”.
Sorry to write this but Natacha is either the dumbest or the most ignorant commenter on this site. If one does not call the border open when well over 4 million illegals entered the country in 18 months (and maybe more) and who are gifted upon their arrival with cell phones, free travel. and free housing then I don’t what an open border would look like. VP Harris telling them not come while offering them a free ticket to US benefits I am sure was a real deterrent. She went to Central America she did not go to the border.
Looks like they didn’t get the message.
It’s like you are always in a competition for the most ignorant (or perhaps most deceitful) post. Biden invited the “asylum seekers” on national TV. Harris yapping at a few dozen reporters not quite the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYwLYMPLYbo
hiram maxim proposed a solution to the invading horde problem 140 years ago.
If Walmart, apts., gas stations, used car dealers etc. didn’t want millions of new customers each year, the border would be sealed. Upscale
neighborhoods aren’t affected. If they were, the border would be secured. Wake uP, folks.
Oh, my! Well HELLO!
The American Founders took care of that.
_________________________________
Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795, 1798 and 1802 (four iterations, they meant it)
United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” March 26, 1790
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof…
So many elected Ds and their toadies are left with using emotion – fear, hate, divisiveness, envy, etc. – to get votes. These days, they refuse to deal with facts because the facts do not support the positions they take.
(Since this is basically the same thing Professor Turley posted elsewhere on the blog earlier today or yesterday, let me repeat my comment:)
Writing here from Ground Zero on Cape Cod a few miles from where a few of the migrants may or may not now be housed, here’s what we don’t know:
— How did these aliens enter the United States and where had they been previously and for how long if they did not immediately come from their home country?
— Are some of them — but how many — Venezuelan (those that are might have dramatically different alien status and no need to seek asylum depending on answers to the questions above)
— It seems pretty sure at this point that they signed up for the flight in San Antonio (but how long had they been there, who was assisting them in Texas if anyone, and why the stops in Jacksonville and SC?)
— Didn’t someone file a flight plan with the FAA, which would certainly be required for a plane ferrying 25 civilians or so? Who? When?
— What was the alleged Biden administration DHS involvement in this prior to boarding (as alleged by a Boston immigration lawyer in Newsweek) https://www.newsweek.com/migrants-flown-marthas-vineyard-were-kidnapped-immigration-attorney-1743508
— What does their paperwork that the Biden Administration DHS allegedly filled out actually say?
— Where did the mostly 20 something destitute males get those $1000 smart phones?
— How many aliens if any left on the last ferry last Wednesday night, sometime last Thursday or on the first ferry last Friday morning?
Without these facts and the answers to about a dozen other open questions, almost every comment here and the column itself is worthless
The question about “who was helping them in Texas” helps answer the question of — if remotely possible — coercion. Don’t you think the Washington Post and USA Today and NYT have been looking all over San Antonio for “Perla” since last Thursday morning. One of the alleged Venezuelans even named the homeless shelter where he or she was staying when Perla approached him or her (so the people that run that homeless shelter should know who Perla is). In addition, the alleged Venezuelans must have paperwork that says who arranged the stunt (leftist immigration lawyers even say that Biden DHS administration employees doctored that paperwork). There has been little reporting on the fact that at least some number of the migrants had been in the United States for some time… length of time unreported… living in San Antonio. They did not just “walk over the mountains” and on to the plane
“TOTO, I’VE A FEELING WE’RE NOT IN [AMERICA] ANYMORE”
– DOROTHY, WIZARD OF OZ
________________________
The Founders gave America its Constitution in 1789, and its Naturalization Acts in 1790, 1795, 1798 and 1802 (four iterations, they meant it).
America homogeneously enjoyed maximal individual freedom under severely restricted and limited government for 71 years until Lincoln illicitly seized power and destroyed it.
Every act of Lincoln nullified both the governance and makeup of America.
Every act of Lincoln was unconstitutional, from the denial of secession, martial law, and war against a sovereign foreign nation, to the suspension of habeas corpus, confiscation of private property and the corrupt, improper ratification of, not one but three typically impossible-to-ratify constitutional amendments.
Slavery must and would have been prohibited and proscribed by law.
As unconstitutional Roe v Wade was overturned and retroactively corrected after 50 years, Lincoln’s unconstitutional Marxist state must be overturned and retroactively corrected after 150 years.
That is the sworn-oath duty of the Supreme Court.
________________________________________
“THAT POWER HAS BEEN RESISTED BY A FORCE TOO STRONG FOR ME TO OVERCOME”
“The clause in the Constitution which authorizes the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus is in the ninth section of the first article. This article is devoted to the Legislative Department of the United States, and has not the slightest reference to the Executive Department.”
“I can see no ground whatever for supposing that the President in any emergency or in any state of things can authorize the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, or arrest a citizen except in aid of the judicial power.”
“I have exercised all the power which the Constitution and laws confer on me, but that power has been resisted by a force too strong for me to overcome.”
– Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, May 28, 1861
____________________________________
LINCOLN ESPOUSES MARX’S PEJORATIVES, “CAPITALIST” AND “FLEECE THE PEOPLE,” IN 1837
“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.”
– Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837
__________________________________________________________
“Everyone now is more or less a Socialist.”
– Charles Dana, managing editor of the New York Tribune, and Lincoln’s assistant secretary of war, 1848
______________________________________________________________________________________
“The goal of Socialism is Communism.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
__________________
SO THAT’S WHERE THE “RECONSTRUCTION AMENDMENTS” CAME FROM – KARL MARX
LINCOLN IS KARL MARX’S “EARNEST OF THE EPOCH” LEADING AMERICA TOWARD “THE RECONSTRUCTION OF A SOCIAL WORLD.”
“The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world.”
– Karl Marx and the First International Workingmen’s Association to Lincoln, 1864
ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS ARE NOT “MIGRANTS” AND HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
Taxpayers bear no licit burden of taxation to support foreign citizens.
Claiming any consideration or “rights” for criminal, illegal-alien invaders is as preposterous as saying that enemy combatants with wounds and PTSD are eligible for benefits from the VA.
Asylum is a joke.
Ridiculous “asylum” claims would jump to 7.9999999 billion if they carried any veracious validity, legitimacy, weight or force.
Criminal, illegal alien invaders “fundamentally transform” America.
Barack Obama, Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Karl Marx and “Crazy Abe” Lincoln have been conspiring through the centuries to:
“FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.”
The American Founders conducted decades of active opposition and a 7-year Revolutionary War to “FUNDAMENTALLY FORM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.”
To “fundamentally transform” America is an antithetical, anti-American, and unconstitutional act to diminish freedom, initiate collectivism, and increase enslavement, as well as an act of war by insurrectionist direct and mortal enemies of America whose goal is to abrogate and replace the Constitution.
Caveat America!
It’s the return of the Bolsheviks.
Finally exposing the Democrat hypocrisy that we all know and loath.
It’s not only this but almost every facet of our life the Democrats have a do as I say not as I do attitude.
Two things: this regime is so corrupt, and the DOJ and its tentacles (e.g., the FBI) are so corrupt, I wouldn’t put it past them to attempt to “prosecute” a political rival under even the most pathetic pretexts, and never mind the “precedent” it creates. They are depraved and deranged. They don’t reckon with concepts such as actual justice, equal application, nor even common sense and decency.
Secondly, DeSantis’s political “stunt” did an excellent job displaying the sickening hypocrisy of sanctimonious self-styled “liberals” living in their lily-white antiseptic gated communities. They preach to the rest of us and call us “racist” but the minute an “unwashed” shows up on their own precious island, they waste no time running them down the road.
“Not in my backyard” should be the motto of these elitist hypocrites, along with “do as I say, not as I do.”
The city of Chicago said that the have accepted the illegal immigrants with open arms then they send them out of the city. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-suburb-says-it-didnt-know-dozens-of-migrants-were-being-sent-from-chicago-as-more-buses-arrived-in-city/2934565/. They forgot to say that the open arms were alligator arms. Will the citizens of the Chicago suburb have to foot the bill for their upkeep? Send us your tired, your hungry, just don’t send them to our city.
Jonathan: This column is basically a rehash of your previous column on the transfer of migrants to northern cities. Apparently Fox doesn’t think your first column on the subject was not strong enough. So let’s move on to some interesting news. Donald Trump is on a rant over the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. He wants to rile up his supporters so they will continue sending in money for his legal defense fund. They are suckers and Trump knows it.
So what is Trump complaining about re the search? For starters the former president feels “totally violated”. Sounds like a Mafia Don who says the same thing when the FBI searches their places of business and their residences. Trump even complained the FBI agents didn’t bother to take off their shoes when they searched his bedroom. Maybe one of the agents stepped on one of the tubes of Trump’s orange face cream.
How outrageous! As Trump looked around he said Mar-a-Lago would “never be the same” and he continued his false claim his 4th Amendment rights were violated. Come on Donald, the search warrant was authorized by Judge Reinhart who found “probable cause”. Even your first lawyers didn’t argue this point. Trump was aghast the FBI even searched Barron’s bedroom. Apparently, Trump never bothered to look at the search warrant that covered ALL of his residence. Trump also repeated his bizarre claim that the top secret docs spread out on the carpet in that iconic photo were placed there “perhaps pretending it was me that did it”. Nope, Donald. The FBI found those docs in your office and the photograph them per normal FBI investigative protocols. Perhaps. Trump thinks as the former president he should be shown more deference. Sorry, Donald, you are now a private citizen despite your claims to the contrary and Judge Cannon’s ruling you may have a “possessory interest” in top secret docs that don’t belong to you.
Speaking of Trump’s legal defense fund, it turns out his penchant for stiffing his lawyers is having consequences. His latest attorney, Christopher Kise, demanded a hefty $3 million dollar retainer fee to represent the grifter. Smart move! So all you loyal Trump supporters in this blog you need to get out your checkbooks again because lawyers like Kise don’t come cheap.
Dennis why you making Anonymous comments to bolster your argument…lol.
And I see your Trump derangement syndrome is peaking this morning you’re vibrating…ROFLMAO.
You Moon bat loons are so delusional
Why are you adopting the leftist language of “undocumented migrant?” These folks are crossing the border illegally. There are processes in place to deal with people seeking asylum, but regardless of whether the Fed continues to create new money out of thin air or whether Congress (Republicans and Democrats) continues to spend us into oblivion, we will eventually have to deal with the bankruptcy of our country-
We can either help a limited number of legal immigrants or help no one, once the country implodes.
My guess is that the plan is to destroy the country, because that is the actual agenda of the leftists in charge…
People who present themselves at the border and seek asylum are NOT illegal. Our law allows this. Those who sneak in and don’t seek asylum are illegals.
People who go to a port of entry and request asylum are not illegal.
People who cross the border illegally and ask for asylum if they are caught are illegal – or if you prefer more accurately criminal.
Without law there is no government.
We have immigration laws.
If you do not like them – change them.
In the meantime the rule of law requires enforcing them as written.
Congress has on multiple occasions past laws requiring a wall at the southern border.
Yet democrat until Trump almost no construction was done.
If you do not want a wall – change the law.
We have laws regarding legal entry into this country. Crossing willy nilly where you please is a crime.
Further it precludes you from claiming legal immigration status.
If you want asylum you must meet the legal requirements for asylum – which include raising your claim at a US consulate, embassy or port of entry. Those legal requirements for asylum preclude 99.999999% of those crossing our southern border.
Though probably not most Venezuelans. Regardless if you do no like the asylum law – Change it.
US presidents swear to uphold our constitution and the laws of the land. that means immigration laws too.
They do not swear to uphold only the parts of the constitution or law that they like.
If you do not like the law change it.
We have had an ongoing debate over immigration law for nearly all of my life. For most of that time, democrats and republicans worked together – though often with different values, and they changed the law.
But to greater and lessor extent presidents, particularly democrats have been ignoring immigration law and doing as they please.
That is lawless, it destroys trust in govenrment. it is actually authoritarian.
ENFORCE THE LAW WE HAVE, and change the ones you do not like.
You will likely find broadspread support for SOME of the changes in law you might want – if you stick to “the rule of law”,
especially the adherance to and enforcement of those laws you do not like – until you are able to change them.
“ People who cross the border illegally and ask for asylum if they are caught are illegal – or if you prefer more accurately criminal.”
False. That would make every Cuban who reaches a beach in Florida and gets caught illegal only of they don’t declare asylum first. The majority of those seeking asylum cross at ports of entry and declare asylum. Even when they cross illegally they can still legally request asylum.
“False.”
Nope
“That would make every Cuban who reaches a beach in Florida and gets caught illegal only of they don’t declare asylum first.”
Yopu do not declare asylum, to a large extent it is true that Cuban illegal immigrants are deported, But the issue with Cuba has been arround for 70+ years. There is lots of Cuba specific immigration law – Cubans are a very important political constituency.
” The majority of those seeking asylum cross at ports of entry and declare asylum.”
If true that would be a few thousand people. We are talking about Millions.
“Even when they cross illegally they can still legally request asylum.”
Nope, and if the go all the way to being deported rather than agreeing to be deported, they will be unable to request asylum for years in the future.
You really are clueless. Aside from actually paying attention over the past 65 yearsm there is another reason to beleive I am right. Because the process worked under Trump and it did not under Biden.
If the law actually was as you claim – Trump would have had 10M illegals enter the US in 4 years and been unable to stop them.
Trump followed the actual law. That law allowed him to rapidly deport the vast majority of border crossers.
As a result the incentives to try decreased and fewer and fewer people ever TRIED to cross.
Biden changed the incentives – and the problem is growing. He is ignoring the law – so he is depriving himself of the tools to deal with this.
The actual fact is that what is happening is not because Biden CAN’T stop it – that is obviously stupidly false. Everyone KNOWS better. Trump inherited a huge border problem and turned a flood to a trickle. Biden inherited a tricklen and turned it to a flood.
There is no outside factor that Biden could not control.
This is happening BECAUSE Biden is not enforcing the law.
Further it is happening BECAUSE Biden wants it to happen.
We can debate the reasons, But Biden is happy with almost 3M illegals crossing a year.
Because if he was not he could stop it.
There is only one other possible rational explanation.
Biden does not want this – but is unwilling to publicly do something that shows Trump to be right about anything.
Probably this is a bit of both.
But the latter is more interesting. It makes Biden Trump’s rope a dope.
When you let your embarrasment at letting another person be right when you are wrong prevent you from shifting from wrong to right – they OWN you.
Almost none of these people are actual migrants.
Almost none of these people are immigrating legally.
Legal asylum requires two things –
meeting the laws requirements for asylum – 99.999% of these people do not.
If you do not like that – change the law.
Making an asylum request at a port of entry or diplomatic post of the US government.
You may not be law request asylum when you are caught in the middle of the Arizona Desert.
If you do not like that – change the law.
“ Legal asylum requires two things –
meeting the laws requirements for asylum – 99.999% of these people do not.”.
Not accurate. Legal asylum first requires the government investigating the claim. While that is pending those seeking asylum are granted temporary stay in the country often that involves staying with legal relatives or travel to a state where they can wait for their hearing. While all that is going on they are legally in the country. The 99.999% claim has no basis in fact.
“ Under the new Biden administration asylum seekers are seeing greater success rates in securing asylum. While asylum denial rates had grown ever higher during the Trump years to a peak of 71 percent in FY 2020, they fell to 63 percent in FY 2021. Expressed another way, success rates grew from 29 percent to 37 percent under President Biden.”
https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/667/
“Not accurate. Legal asylum first requires the government investigating the claim.”
False, government need not investigate AT ALL. The burden of proof is on the asylum seeker.
This is just a stupid argument.
“While that is pending those seeking asylum are granted temporary stay in the country often that involves staying with legal relatives or travel to a state where they can wait for their hearing.”
that CAN happen, but there is absolutely no legal requirement that it happen.
Asylum is a privilege granted by the US, it is not a right. An asylum seeker will get a hearing, in the US or in a consulate or embassy. THEY must make that case at that hearing. There is no legal requirement to allow an asylum seeker into the US while the hearing is pending. There is no requirement to allow them to stay with relatives.
That the Biden admin has chosen to offer priviledges that are NOT legal requirements that have vastly complicated the process and enticed millions to come here does not make that the actual law.
Separately, if you crossed illegally – all of the above is entirely moot. You are charged with a crime, and you will have a hearing on that crime – not a petition for asylum. Doing otherwise DOES violate the law. Further if you go all the way to a hearing – you will be convicted and you will not be able to request asylum for years to come.
You do not seem to grasp that Asylum is a priviledge not a right.
Even the delay to a hearing is actually a priviledge – YOU chose to come asking for asylum, the US government can procede as fast as it pleases – the presumption is YOU brought what evidence you need.
“While all that is going on they are legally in the country.”
Again a priviledge that Biden has chosen to extend – not a legal right.
“The 99.999% claim has no basis in fact.”
From 2019.
“There were 63,278 asylum seekers coming to the US in 2018.
The majority of asylum seekers in 2019 came from the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The US has capped the maximum number of refugees in 2020 to 18,000.
65% of asylum cases were denied in 2018.
For 2019, the Flow Report showed that the top ten countries whose citizens who received grants of asylum from USCIS included (from most to least):
Venezuela
China (PRC)
Egypt
Turkey
Russia
Guatemala
El Salvador
Mexico
Nigeria
Honduras.”
In 2018 there were 521,000 illegal border crossings.
If you assume as you claim – which is false that asylum seekers were illegal border crossers.
Then 4% of them received asylum.
The fact is that illegal border crossers are not part of the asylum seekers number.
The border crossers were almost entirely deported = if they were caught.
Your best chance in 2018 was to NOT get caught.
“ Under the new Biden administration asylum seekers are seeing greater success rates in securing asylum. While asylum denial rates had grown ever higher during the Trump years to a peak of 71 percent in FY 2020, they fell to 63 percent in FY 2021. Expressed another way, success rates grew from 29 percent to 37 percent under President Biden.”
Correct, and asylum seekers are NOT illegal border crossers
Under Biden in 2021 despite Promises of much higher numbers only 21K people were granted asylum.
You are in a deliberate effort to conflate the two.
While asylum statistics are inconsistent – I see claims that Biden promised to grant 220K asylum in 2021 – nothing says he did better than 10% of that. Biden has far less control of that than he thinks. Asylum requests are handled by ALJ’s they may lean right or left, but they still are bound by the law. That means a left leaning ALJ is only going to make decisions a few points different from a right leaning one. Biden can apoint more – but it takes years to replace or increase the number. It also takes congressional approval. It also takes prioritization.
Trump and McConnell focused on Judical appointments during his 4 years. For 2 of those with democrats controlling the house – nothing else was really going on in the senate. So Trump pushed through judges of all kinds are a record pace. Biden has a choice between a legislative agenda and judicial appointments. he has prioritized legislation and therefore is having less impact on judges – including ALJ’s. Ultimately there are only so many cases each can here a year. Regardless less than 200K people applied for asylum in 2021. That is less than 10% of the people who illegally entered the country.
Biden is trying to ramp up the asylum process – but he is failing. Illegal border crossers DO NOT qualify for asylum.
If you doubt that – why aren’t there 5M pending asylum requests ?
Biden has probably doubled the number of requests for asylum. but as best as I can tell there is about a 10% increase in the number of approvals. Total approved asylum requests in 2021 are about 2 days worth of illegal border crossers.
I would further note nearly all approved asylum requests come from a very small number of countries.
These are universally countries we have issues with. If you are not from one of those countries you are SOL.
You are with near certainty correct that Republicans are holding up the appointment of ALJ’s handling asylum.
As a result Biden can game the system and allow them to wait in the US. but he can not get them approved.
And 2024 is coming, when they will likely be sent home.
Though the priority will be the 5M so far catch and released border crossers, who will get a short quick hearing when caught, and be deported never allowed to return.
Natacha, you are way off base. Someone who comes to the border claiming asylum but has not been persecuted in their home country has committed improper entry. This misrepresentation is a crime. We should all realize that almost all of the migrants are here for work and generous government benefits. These people are illegal and our law does not allow this misrepresentation. You didn’t do your homework.
The story has nothing to do with Trump and the fact that you have this essentially what’s like a small novel about Trump orange man bad only shows everybody in the comment section just how severe your Trump derangement syndrome is you should get professional help Dennis before it rots away what’s left of your gray matter
“transfer of migrants to northern cities”
Illegals, not migrants.
“Donald Trump is on a rant over the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. He wants to rile up his supporters”
He is angry because the FBI and government abused their powers. If you wish to live under fascist rule, that is fine, but he doesn’t want this country to become fascist.
“They are suckers and Trump knows it.”
They are not suckers. They are working people who benefitted from Trump’s policies and are now suffering under Biden. He provides preference to criminals and the elites.
“FBI agents didn’t bother to take off their shoes when they searched his bedroom. “
Didn’t your mother teach you manners or cleanliness? Do you act like a pig in other people’s houses?
“the search warrant was authorized by Judge Reinhart who found “probable cause”
If you understood the law, you would have questions about the lack of the rule of law seen today, but you don’t have any. Is that because you are a fascist or don’t understand the Constitution?
“Even your first lawyers didn’t argue this point. “
I will give you a hint which would be good for you. Good defense lawyers don’t open their mouths when they don’t have to.
” in that iconic photo were placed there “perhaps pretending it was me that did it”
I guess you are too inept to realize he was talking about the placement of the documents in the photo.
“per normal FBI investigative protocols.”
Are the FBI “normal” investigative protocols to take pictures that create emotional bias?
I forgot I am asking a fascist who doesn’t understand the rule of law and how law enforcement is supposed to act in free societies.
“in top secret docs that don’t belong to you.“
Here you go again talking when you should have kept your mouth shut. You don’t know that there were any top secret documents. You also don’t know who they belong to. Courts make that decision, but I forget again, you are a fascist believing the courts represent the leader.
“Christopher Kise, demanded a hefty $3 million dollar retainer fee “
Most lawyers take retainers in advance and will not proceed if their costs aren’t covered in advance. I guess you don’t know. When you need a lawyer, it is one provided by the court.
Might take a quick look at CA Penal Code Section 182, subdivision (a), paragraph (2).
Anonymous: Please explain how CA PC Section 182(a)(2) would apply to the transportation of migrants from Texas to Chicago and Martha’s Vineyard.
You can’t stand how your hypocrisy is being exposed can you you love to Virtue signal from the safety and luxury of your sequestered Mansion don’t you
It is clear Dennis doesn’t have the intellectual rigor to understand his hypocrisy. He doesn’t even know the difference between 6 million being tortured and killed, with flying illegals to one of the hot spots of America.
A mind like that is not a terrible waste. It should never exist in the first place.
Why?
You can’t stand how these migrants were taken to a better place in America.
You hate these migrants and loathe them if they’re around you but as long as they stay in a different area you’re okay with it you actually support the open border just as long as it doesn’t affect you
Can we please quit calling them migrants.
Migration is a cyclical and usually seasonal process. Birds migrate, farm workers migrate – both return at the end of the season.
These people are immigrants. As they are not legal immigrants, they are illegal immigrants.
Technically they are undocumented, although even that is dubious as th Biden admin is giving them temporary documentation. regardless the reason they do not have visa’s and work permits and documentation is because they did not legally immigrate.
They’re not illegal immigrants.
They’re legally in the US with Temporary Protected Status: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/temporary-protected-status/temporary-protected-status-designated-country-venezuela
Irrelevant.
They are hear illegally.
They are immigrants.
They are illegal immigrants.
This is just more stupid left wing nut word games.
You can fight over this until you are blue in the face.
The term in Law is “illegal alien”.
It has been that for all of my lifetime
Your link raises a completely different problem.
Myorkas’s order violates US immigration law.
Unless you enter the US at a port of entry or a consulate or embassy, current law does not allow you to raise an asylum claim. If you do not like that – change the law.
If you are stopped within 100m of the border, not having entered legally (at a port of entry), the due process requirements are minimal and you can and are legally supposed to be removed within somewhere between 15 and 30 days.
This administration is playing idiotic games by catching them, transporting them further than 100m(to red states) from the border and releasing them to magically delay their deportation often for years.
John B. Say,
“ Irrelevant.
They are hear illegally.
They are immigrants.
They are illegal immigrants.”
No they are not. They are here legally since they are legally awaiting their asylum hearings. Because they are currently here on a temporary basis they are migrants. Once they are granted asylum they are effectively immigrants.
This is how the law legally classifies them. It’s not word games. You just have a poor argument
“ Asylum seekers who arrive at a U.S. port of entry or enter the United States without inspection generally must apply through the defensive or expedited asylum processes. All three application processes require the asylum seeker to be physically present in the United States or at a port of entry.Aug 16, 2022”
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/affirmative-asylum-frequently-asked-questions/questions-and-answers-affirmative-asylum-eligibility-and-applications
Even if you enter illegally you can still apply for asylum. All that is required is that you are ON U.S. territory when you do so. So just jumping over a fence and declare asylum to the nearest authorities is legal.
Svelaz – please read your own quote. It proves you wrong.
Under Biden there are 200K assylum seekers in 2021.
These are people who came to ports of entry and requested asylum.
Of those about 30K received hearing, and 20K received asylum.
The rest are in limbo.
You are correct that the remaining 170K are free to remain in the US – until another president decides they are not.
But all of this is a drop in the bucket. There are 8,000 illegal border crossers that we know of per day.
These are not asylum seekers. They did not cross at a port of entry. They can fill out a form, but they will never get an asylum hearing. They are not allowed to stay here legally. Many may be decent people but the violated the law, and if they do not agree to leave someday they will have a hearing for the crime of illegal border crossing.
They will be convicted, and they will be deported. That has been the norm my entire life.
It is possible that hundreds of thousands will avoid getting caught. Obama deported 400K illegal aliens per year.
Trump deported just over half the number of people per year than Obama did. Because Trump significanly reduced illegal border crossings. Biden has deported 59,000 people in 2021. That is the lowest number Ever recorded.
The previous low was 2004 when there were 174K deportations.
Again there will be a republican president in 2024, and you can expect that deportations will jump to possibly a million a year. While crossings will return quickly to Trump levels. This is all false promises and a waste of time and money.
It is most easy to stop the problem from happening. Prevent border crossings. Build the wall, enforce the border send a message that you are not getting in. Next – as the law allows detain and deport those you catch immediately.
If you do that – quickly people will stop coming accross illegally. The stupidest choice is to let them in. Then they spend years living in fear of getting caught unable to work legally, and a significant portion of them will eventually be caught and deported, and never allowed to return.
The asylum system is different. You keep claiming that it is illegal border crossers, It is not.
These are people who really try to enter at ports of entry. Biden has increased requests over Trump – but not dramatically. He has increased the grant rate – but it is still 10% of the application rate.
No one here is fighting over 20K people granted asylum last year who entered the country legally through ports of entry. No one is fighting much over the 200K that applied legally at ports of entry.
The fight here is over the 4.8M illegal alien border crossers – 8,000/day. More in one month than all asylum requests in a year. More in 3 days than all the asylum grants in a year.
Biden is making a mess of the asylum system. But it is a small mess it has barely changed from Trump.
But he has entirely F’d up illegal border crossings. There is a gargantuan difference there.
These are not asylum seekers. And they will not be allowed to seek asylum – not even under Biden.
There are millions of them – not a few hundred thousand. They can not legally work. They can not legally stay.
And the odds are at some point they will be caught and thrown out for good.
And YOU made that mess.
This is pretty trivial.
This is an issue where many libertarians could find some common ground with liberals, BUT FOR the lawlessness and stupidity of those on the left.
Our current law allows very limited basis for claiming asylum – it is probable that of the 5M people who have crossed since Biden took office less than 1000 would meet the requirements for asylum – if they crossed legally.
The entire remained, by law must be deported. PERIOD. That is the law.
Of course left wing nuts only enforce the laws they like – thereby alienating libertarians and pretty much anyone for whom the rule of law is actually important.
I will be happy to agree to change our asylum laws.
I could even join you to impliment something very close to open borders.
But there is no way in the world I would compromise or make any agreement to change the laws, with those like you, the left, the democratic party.
Because you will not live up to any agreement, you will not enforce provisions of any law you do not like.
You are lawless and unfit to govern anyone – honestly not even yourself.
Current law requires anyone caught in the US illegally withing 100m of the border to have a quick hearing and be deported immediately. I beleive the hearing is within 15 days, but it might be a bit longer.
The only reason for the hearing is that we do not authorize law enforcement anywhere in the US to act as prosecutor, judge jury and prison administration all concurrently.
Even illegal immigrants are entitled to due process. That due process is simple – can you prove you entered the US legally ? No ? Go out that door where you will be transported out of the US. That is it.
In unbeleivably rare instances someone can prove they are a citizen or crossed legally. Almost always mistakes like that are resolved before any hearing.
But instead of following the law – left wing nuts release them, often even transporting them far away from the border.
They do not show up for their hearing. And if they are picked up elsewhere in the country later, they now have a much more complex due process system that if they fail to cooperate, could result in delays lasting years before they are deported.
This is democrats being cruel.
You are unwilling to follow the laws we have – so no one trusts you enough to change the laws to something better.
A wall accross our entire southern border was required by law as part of the reagan democrats amensty deal in the 80’s.
DO YOU SEE A WALL ? No! That is because democrats lie about everything. It is not possible to make deals with them. They will not keep their part of the agreement.
The checks and balanaces in the US constitution are their to make it HARD for those controling one portion of government to go off and do as you please. But those on the left will convert the least control of the smallest portion of government into carte blanche authority to do as they please rather than follow the law.
You Myorkas order is a perfect example. It is in violation of existing US law.
I am not at odds with the left on SOME parts of immigration reform.
I think that we can take far more people into this country and allow them to be here LEGALLY.
But we can not do that chaotically, we can not do that in a way that creates massive moral hazards and unfunded liabilities as we have as a result of the lawless behavior of democrats.
You go out of your way to alienate those would share some of your views – by acting completely lawlessly when given the slightest power.
No one rational will trust you.
All you bleeding heart liberals need shut your pie holes about this illegal invasion. Act on your virtue and take the invaders into your home, show us racists how caring and loving you are! Your lack of action is quite revealing. Sack up or shut up!
What an absolute mess this administration is making of our nation and the difficulties it’s causing it’s citizens.
The worst part is: It’s all by design.
Dear Margot: you have it exactly backwards. Biden got COVID under control and got the immunization program on legs–something Trump failed to do. Biden reversed Trump’s 10% unemployment rate. Biden got schools, factories, businesses open again and the supply chain is trying to catch up. Biden has NO control over the number of people coming to our borders seeking asylum. Biden restored our allies’ confidence in America. Ukraine is making tangible progress against Russia, thanks to help from the US, EU and NATO allies, both of which Trump alienated.
What “difficulties” is the Biden administration “causing its citizens”, anyway?
The US has had over 1M covid deaths. more than 700K of those were while Joe Biden was president.
Trump was president for 9 months of the US epidemic – April-December. Joe Biden for 21 months.
The development of the vaccine took place under Trump.
To Trump’s credit and that of vaccine companies the Vaccine was completed in less than 9 months.
It has unfortunately through no fault of Trump or Biden proven to be at best minimally effective,
Certainly not sufficient to have any impact on the spread of the disease.
It is self evident to nearly anyone with a brain at this time that NOTHING that those im power have done to thwart covid has worked. Nothing Trump did worked. Nothing Biden did worked.
There is no world leader or public health expert that can be held responsible for deaths from Covid.
It is clear that there was nothing that worked.
That said it is also clear that nearly everything public health experts did to fight covid caused all kinds of other even more serious harms.
We destroyed the economy of the country, of the world, we isolated people, causing anxiety, depression and suicides.
We destroyed the education of our children. We wasted gargantuan amounts of money to no good purpose at all.
Some republicans did this, nearly all democrats did this.
Worse still we actively silenced those who correctly told us we were wrong.
Biden did far worse dealing with Covid than Trump. Not because more people died, but because Biden promised he would do better than Trump. It is self evident that promise was a lie. It was self evident by May 2020 that
public health policies were not working and were not going to work.
Unemployment on Jan 20, 2021 was 6% and falling. Today it is just under 4% and rising.
“What “difficulties” is the Biden administration “causing its citizens”, anyway?”
Uh, skyrocketing inflation.
Forcing some to pay for the student debts of others.
Censorship (via the DHS).
The creation and persecution of political “criminals.”
Rampant crime, caused by Leftist policies that he has neither denounced or tried to fix.
My angst, every time I try to figure out what he’s saying. And every time I wonder: How long will it be until the WH “walks back” his statements.
The destruction of America’s energy industry.
Declaring political opponets “enemies of the state.”
The utter absurdity and pretense that he is in fact in control of his administration.
Did I miss anything?