Last week, many of us expressed alarm over a statement by former President Trump that we might have to “terminate” constitutional rules in light of the release of the Twitter files. He has now denied saying that but repeats that the disclosures should mean that the election is “redone.” There are no constitutional Mulligans in presidential elections.
There is a legitimate demand for an investigation into this scandal and censorship that clearly had some impact on the close election.
However, while I have been a vocal critic of Twitter and the full mobilization of media, political, and corporate interests against Musk, any suggestion that constitutional rules could be terminated or suspended is both dangerous and demagogic.
For that reason, I was glad to see Trump walking back the statement but there remain deeply troubling aspects to the continued call for the election to be “redone.”
On Monday, Trump insisted that he does not want to “terminate” the Constitution:
“The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS.”
However, the earlier posting was unequivocal in stating that the Twitter disclosures “allows for the termination of all rules … even those found in the Constitution.”
As I stated at the time, there is no basis for termination or suspension of constitutional rules in such a case. Moreover, the misconduct of one company would never be accepted by a court as grounds for retroactively reevaluating a presidential election two years later.
Notably, there was ample evidence of raw fraud in states like Illinois that may have given Kennedy his victory over Nixon. However, the election was not “redone” in light of those allegations.
In his latest posting, Trump repeated that
“steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG…Simply put, if an election is irrefutably fraudulent, it should go to the rightful winner or, at a minimum, be redone … Where open and blatant fraud is involved, there should be no time limit for change!”
Putting aside the clarification on the call for termination of such rules, there is no basis upon which a court could order an election in 2020 to be “redone.” The implications of such a power are chilling. Such judicial intervention could be used by judges to “redo” future elections when they disapprove of a candidate or party. It is an invitation to judicial activism and would be destabilizing for our constitutional system as a whole.
It is unclear what Trump is now demanding. Should a court declare him the winner and order the start of a new four-year term — negating the 2024 election? Would the court order a vote in 2022 and then another vote in 2024? None of that is even remotely possible on a legal basis.
Moreover, before declaring that the election is to be “redone,” the court would have to not only find that the company engaged in election fraud but that such fraud was determinative or decisive in the election. How does it do that? There were a myriad of issues pushing voters that year. A court could not say with any sense of confidence that Twitter’s conduct determined the outcome.
My concern is that such postings create a false impression for citizens that such a “redo” is possible. It fuels extraconstitutional demands on our system. We have the oldest and most successful constitutional system in history because it is not subject to such improvisation or impulse.
Besides, there is a practical redo in the works. Trump is already running in 2024. We do not have to “undo” 2020 when the public will have a renewed chance to vote for Trump in 2024.
Trump accomplished a great deal when he was president. His main strength was that he was not a politician and his main weakness was that he was not a politician. His drive and his single minded determination to fulfill his promises was refreshing in a very jaded world and with some slight help from Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan he could have have accomplished a great deal more but those swamp creatures, especially Ryan were totally useless. He too often yielded to their programs instead of demanding his. They worked contrary to what the President and the people who elected him wanted done. The epitome of the swamp. Not being a politician, he had no experiences with which to judge people who ended up working in his administration and relied on recommendations from many of the selfsame swamp creatures and more of their ilk and they worked at cross purposes to his own plans. And those poor choices blunted much of what he tried to do.
A good politician could have seen and avoided many of the minefields that Trump ran into Willy-Nilly.
He had no real group of followers to assist that he could trust. And he had a marked overdeveloped belief in his ability to pick good people and multiple times it was a disaster. He continued to try to deal with the mainstream media instead of simply not talking to them. He continued with interviews he should never have done with a hostile media. He had no ability to keep his mouth shut and let his press people take care of things. And he had to grab every headline no matter what. He demanded absolute fealty instead of earning trust and loyalty. Good leadership means to spread the praise and take the blame.
His staff should have broken his fingers every time he logged on to Twitter. No restraint and too big an ego. All politicians are narcissists and have huge ego’s. The trick is to hide it.
Tump has not learned a thing and I have no confidence but he would do it all over again.
I read the Peter Navarro Report and I’ve never heard of a line-by-line rebuttal of it from the Democrats (or Jonathan Turley), other than they say “there is no evidence” or “there is no proof.”
Here is the Navarro Report summary of the evidence:
******
The Navarro Report – Peter Navarro
The Immaculate Deception
Six Key Dimensions of Election Irregularities (in six battleground states)
Cases of both widespread evidence and some evidence of the following in the six battleground states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin):
1. Outright voter fraud
-Bribery
-Fake ballot manufacturing & destruction of legally cast real ballots
-Indefinitely confined ballot abuses
-Ineligible voters and voters who cast votes in multiple states
-Dead voters and ghost voters
-Counting ballots multiple times
-Illegal out-of-state voters
2. Ballot mishandling
-No voter ID check
-Signature match check abuses
-“Naked ballots” lacking outer envelope
-Broken chain of custody & unauthorized ballot handling or movements
-Ballots accepted without postmarks & backdating of ballots
3. Contestable process fouls
-Abuses of poll watchers & observers
-Mail-in & absentee ballot rules violated contrary to state law
-Voters not properly registered allowed to vote
-Illegal campaigning at poll locations
-Ballots cured by poll workers or voters contrary to law
4. Equal protection clause violations
-Higher standards of certification & voter ID applied to in-person voters
-Different standards of ballot curing
-Differential & partisan poll watcher treatment
5. Election voting machine irregularities
-Large-scale voting machine inaccuracies
-Inexplicable vote switching and vote surges in favor of Biden
6. Statistical anomalies in six battleground states
-Significant changes in absentee ballot rejection rates from previous elections
-Excessively high voter turnout (at times exceeding 100%)
-Statistically improbable vote totals based on party registration & historical patterns
-Unusual vote surges
******
I believe the 2020 election results warrant at least a “Warren Commission” type of investigation and report.
If not, then I personally have little faith in our present “third world” election process.
The 2020 election results were audited multiple times in contested states. The audits, especially those run by Trump supporters yielded no evidence of the kind of fraud they claimed. And still they hung on to the claims because absence of evidence is evidence.
Even in Arizona the cyber ninjas audit revealed that Trump indeed lost to Biden. They even found a few more votes for Biden.
Court challenges were dismissed either because of lack of standing or lack of evidence.
All those claims made by Navarro have been debunked multiple times. There was no massive fraud. Some? Sure, every election is never going to be perfect. Was it enough to change the outcome? No.
Thank you. You just made a great case why people like me need a “Warren Commission” investigation of the 2020 results in order to get closure. Otherwise, it will remain another “1948 LBJ scandal” in our minds, forever tainting our faith in the election process.
“Was it enough to change the outcome?”
Really? What would have been “enough to change the outcome?”
Since you are obviously just blowing smoke and don’t know, I’ll answer that for you:
Some 60,000 votes across about six districts aroung the country.
None of these things means Trump was cheated. If all those things were corrected, Trump may have lost by more. I am sure there were similar things in states Trump won.
Scott, thanks for the above list. Now that there is freedom on Twitter everyone with a Twitter account should post your points so that many can spread the word.
Last week, many of us expressed alarm over a statement by former President Trump that we might have to “terminate” constitutional rules in light of the release of the Twitter files
Donald Trump, a white, obese, attention seeking blow hard with bad hair, agrees with Elie Mystal, a black, obese, attention seeking blow hard with bad hair. Donald Trump meets with a white nationalist 24 y/o, know nothing, young punk (and a mentally ill black rapper), while Kamala Harris and the DNC incite to violence and bail out of jail, black and white racist fascists, young and old from the east coast to the west coast for 2+ years. Cue the faux outrage.
Elie Mystal: The Constitution is trash
I am neither a lawyer nor a constitutional expert, just an interested layman who understands why an election cannot be rerun but wonders whether a candidate who has lost an election which he or she believes was not free and fair has any effective way to challenge the process before votes are cast or to contest the outcome after they are counted.
If there is no effective way to do either, then our system would appear to encourage less than free and fair elections, a conclusion I am reluctant to accept because I have a high opinion of those who founded our country and faith in the pragmatism of its citizens, but one that appears to be the case given evidence in plain view, from Molly Ball’s article in Time to Jim Baker’s apparent role at Twitter in suppressing the information on Hunter Biden’s laptop.
I found the following link helpful, but it raised other questions, e.g., how did its author and those judges who dismissed lawsuits in 2020 due to standing, laches, or venue know that there was no evidence of fraud or cheating? Or am I incorrect in assuming that they do not review the evidence by the parties bringing suit in such cases?
https://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2020/12/21/legal-technicalities-to-dismiss-trump-election-lawsuits-are-important-to-the-legal-system/
As for Trump, he is a loose cannon, a businessman turned politician. He is neither a lawyer nor a constitutional expert, so I am not surprised at his gaffes. I am surprised that his lawyers have not found a way to help him channel his frustrations legally, but if there is no legal redress for what he is convinced was a rigged election, I am not surprised that he is frustrated and unable to move beyond November 2020.
If Trump is correct to believe that the 2020 election was ‘rigged,’ to use Mollie Hemingway’s term, then the rest of us also will have difficulty moving forward as unless the problems in the system/process are fixed. Those who believe that the election was tainted will not be persuaded to change their views by assertions; they need to be persuaded both that the elections were free and fair, and that the evidence compiled by Trump’s supporters was neither credible nor compelling. However, given the shenanigans at Twitter, the actions of the FBI, and the use of mechanisms which effectively undermine chain of custody, from mass mail-in voting to vote harvesting and drop boxes, the odds are that Trump will continue to be frustrated and the country will remain divided–and that is more worrisome than Trump’s latest gaffe.
Old Guy: Do not belittle your views because you’re not an expert. You are a citizen and a voter and that’s all that really counts. The answer to your first question is that since Gove v. Bush in 2000, the Supreme Court has realized the folly of getting involved in charges of election fraud. The reluctance is understandable. The Constitution says that we, the people, elect our president and vice-president – not the courts or any other standing institution of government. Let’s suppose for the sake of discussion that the Supreme Court were to accept a fraud case regarding the 2020 election and let’s suppose the court ruled that the social media folks and the main-stream media colluded to interfere in ta fair and honest election. Let’s go even further and suppose that the court found fraud in how the states changed election laws by executive orders and not as the Constitution requires. Let’s say that the court ruled for the victimized candidate and ordered a new election to replace the fraudulent one. To say that there would be choas is probably an understatement. But the bigger problem this would create is the precedence for the court and not the people to select the president. Henceforth, every election would be accompanied by charges of fraud and bias and rather than the people selecting the president, she or he would be selected by the smartest lawyer making the stronger case before 9 unelected justices. There are very few perfect crimes but presidential election fraud may be one of them. The remedy. as Turley suggests, is not a do-over but a subsequent election when the people get to right right the ship of state. As I mentioned elsewhere today, we, the people, are stronger and more powerful than we, the media, or we, the FBI, or we, the Intel Community, or any other institution of society or government.
Thank you, JJC. That helps. If I recall correctly, Chief Justice Rehnquist was reluctant to accept the Gore-Bush case, or is my memory playing tricks again? But, yes, the courts are not legislatures, so there is effectively no redress, which means that any reform needs to come at the state level, and that a lot depends on the current case before the court.
Interesting times we live in.
The idea that righting the ship of state means voting again in a criminal sloppy stolen election is a JOKE.
What the bleaters and bottom lickers can’t seem to comprehend is the total failure to uphold the rule of law.
More lack of rule of law 2 years or 4 years later is not the righting of the ship.
Beating them over the head with this concept may or may not yield sufficient change, and admittedly the latter is highly likely.
The thing to be driven home to the dumb dumbs is it’s already too late for their constant refrain to take it easy and accept all the crimes for the greater good, as they spew through their lying teeth the crimes never happened…
You see they are stuck there.
We are stuck here.
So remove the criminals and install the winner. The lying spewers can make up their fake fraud criminal ceremony so it’s official. That will be their job – screwing around like a girl prepping a wedding. They can stand up there and babble their contorted “constitutional lies” like they do all the time anyway. I have faith they can make it sound rock solid because of the hundreds of the same sort of lies they have already told in the past couple of years. Yes, pretty little pomp and circumstance monsters they will be.
“Besides, there is a practical redo in the works. Trump is already running in 2024. We do not have to “undo” 2020 when the public will have a renewed chance to vote for Trump in 2024.”
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A fraudulent election result is a nullity in law. SCOTUS agrees with that proposition. We don’t have to “suspend” the Constitution to have another election. It’s been done in the past without Constitutional implications. All you need is convincing proof which seems to be emerging with the Twitter revelations. The law isn’t impotent in the face of wrongdoing. Only the Dims are — if they’re not doing it that is. Trump isn’t a lawyer but his sentiment is consistent with most people’s – Dim horde included. It’s not a democracy when you let criminals influence and count the vote. Stalin explained that reality decades ago.
Stalin explained that reality decades ago.
True, but Stalin and Mao never get referenced by the Democrats. They cherry pick their assassin dictators.
To listen to them telling it, Nazism (National Socialism, Nationalsozialismus) was the worst left wing political ideology to ever exist in the world. Small comfort for the 20 million who were killed by Stalin and 45 million killed under Mao Zedong. Heck, they would be thrilled if they could reproduce Fidel Castro’s society here in America
Time magazine put Stalin on its cover 11 times.
https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/
Then there is the Left’s hero, Walter Duranty, reporter for the New York Times who earned a pulitzer prize for denying Stalin’s genocide
Nazis were/are right wing, not left wing. The Nazis identified themselves as right wing. Their name includes “national socialists,” but they opposed the left-wing socialists and killed millions of socialists in WWII. Niemöller’s quote starts off “First they [the Nazis] came for the socialists …” for a reason: the Nazis went after the socialists.
I have no problem admitting that there have been vile left wing dictators, including Stalin and Mao. Apparently you cannot admit that there have been vile right wing dictators, including Hitler and Mussolini.
“Nazis were/are right wing, not left wing.”
Try again, again.
The Nazis were *both* wings.The right *in Germany* was generally fascist. The left was generally socialist/communist. Hitler and his henchmen declared, in essence: You two wings. Stop fighting. Let’s have total power — a totalitarian dictatorship (of both “right” and “left” statists). Hitler was the great “unifier” — of both types of power lusters.
No, the Nazis were NOT “both wings.” The Nazis self-identified as being right wing, and they were only right wing in fact. They imprisoned and killed those on the left. Dachau originally exclusively held those on the left.
“No, the Nazis were NOT ‘both wings.’”
Someone doesn’t understand the meaning of “totalitarianism,” as in *total* power — from all wings.
And as a historical fact, you are dead wrong. There is a well-documented history of Hitler imprisoning and murdering those in his own party — the so-called right-wingers.
ATS identifies himself as a free speech, and constitutional scholar and supporter but he isn’t. Same for ATS statement about NAZI.
Nazis and socialist wish to:
Suppress free speech.
Control private property
Control the means of production
Support the government over the individual
Etc.
ATS doesn’t seem able to learn. Nor can he debate the facts. He can only spew ignorance.
“He can only spew ignorance.”
It’s far more nefarious than that.The Left has to hold on to the fiction that the Nazis were “right wing,” in order to smear American conservatives.
“The goal of Socialism is Communism.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
“ For that reason, I was glad to see Trump walking back the statement but there remain deeply troubling aspects to the continued call for the election to be “redone.”
Trump didn’t walk back that statement. He meant it and still believes it. What’s that saying?…”when someone tells you what they think the first time, believe it.
“ My concern is that such postings create a false impression for citizens that such a “redo” is possible. It fuels extraconstitutional demands on our system.”
That’s his intention it’s always been his intention. That’s how he encouraged his followers to attack the Capitol on Jan 6. If Trump is demanding the constitution be scrapped so he can be president again clearly he was intent on overturning the election by force Jan 6.
Sometimes Turley can seem a bit dense or is just deliberately obtuse because he wouldn’t dare criticize Trump too harshly.
Sevvy:
“Trump didn’t walk back that statement. He meant it and still believes it. What’s that saying?…”when someone tells you what they think the first time, believe it.”
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With that kind of “knowing what you can’t possibly know” you must have clairvoyance. Are you doing parties?
Oh and the quote is “when somebody shows you who they are, believe them.” About the only interesting thing Maya Angelou ever wrote.
The quote is “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
Trump has shown us that he is a pathological liar and a malignant narcissist.
And the most effective and significant president and economic, diplomatic and military leader since Ronald Reagan, nay, since Alexander, The Great.
Mespo, it’s pretty obvious he didn’t want to walk back his statement. He “walked it back” by rephrasing what he still meant. That the election should be redone and that still requires the rules be terminated.
I notice you do not say what the remedy is if it is determined that fraud resulted in an electoral victory. Ignoring Trump’s assertions about the 2020 election, hypothetically, what is the remedy if an election was certified and there was enough fraud to determine the outcome?
Your silence about a remedy seems to suggest that if the people who orchestrate the fraud can go undetected until after the election is certified, then they get a pass. That does not strike me as just.
Yet when I think about fraudulent or rigged elections, that does seem to be the rule.
LBJ’s 1948 Senate primary election was very close. It’s an indisputable fact that not only did voter fraud occur on his behalf, but the level of fraud was enough to secure his “victory.” He went on to win his Senate seat. So that fraudulent primary election was the stepping stone that ultimately put LBJ in the White House years later. Ironically, he nominated to the Supreme Court – and the Democrat Senate confirmed, the shady lawyer who helped him navigate the fraud issue, Abe Fortis. So not only was the fraud rewarded, but the lawyer who figured out ways to get around the fraud was rewarded.
In the machine politics era party bosses rigged elections. Were any of them overturned later after the rigging became known and could be proven?
So is it the case that provided fraudsters can go undetected until after the election is certified, there is no legal remedy?
The remedy is simple. The American public gets to vote every four years for president and vice-president and every two years for representatives and senators (1/3). The Constitution provided at least two means of dealing with corruption and crime by government officials. The first is impeachment but we’ve seen how this can be manipulated for political reasons so this is not as solid as we’d like. The second is more decisive and powerful and it’s called an election. We can vote in good people and vote out the bad. These are the only remedies. Unlike a football game, you don’t get to replay the down or throw the red flag to challenge a decision. But, also like a football game, when all is said and done, regardless of a bad play or an unobserved infraction, when the game is over, it’s over, period (now, who says this all the time?) 🙂 For those who might argue in favor of a “re-do,” it would be short-sighted at best. Thereafter and for ever more, selections for office would be ruled by the courts and not the people, which of course would be unconstitutional. The best lawyer with the best set of “facts” would convince someone no one voted for that someone else should be president. It would work once and then we could turn our industrial centers and magnificent farmlands into banana farms to reflect the type of republic we have become.
Yes, but in football we now have “video replay” reviewed by referees. It slows the game down, but it makes the play calling more accurate. It’s not perfect, but it definitely helps. We need some analogous process added to our election system in order to help restore faith in it.
“We can vote in good people and vote out the bad.”
Not if the system is rigged. You seem to have missed the whole point here.
The standard, which the Dems have perfected, is to do whatever illegal tactics it takes to “win” because the outcome will not be changed even if the fraud is apparent & uncovered. Now the republicans realizing there is a new set of rules – or no rules, is discussing how to play the Dems game. Our elections will be about who can cheat the best.
Nah. They will be a mirror of what just happened Georgia…, D’s identifying where to target their campaign best and R’s making a push to suppress voting from segments of the electorate that vote against them.
There is no significant voter suppression. There is a major problem with illegal ballots created by Democrats.
Complete disconnect from reality.
Regardless, Yes, D’s are better at ballot harvesting – which is illegal in most of the US including GA.
I would note that every state has laws preventing campaigning anywhere near a poll.
When you send a ballot to someone’s home – doesn’t their home become a poll ?
Doesn’t mailin voting effectively bar political parties from going door to door ?
Even if you wish to claim that is not the law – in what world is it NOT OK for party aparatich’s of either party to follow you into the voting booth to influence your vote, But it is OK to come to your home when you are voting from home ?
You say D’s were better able to target their campaign – absolutely, they were perfectly happy to come right into peoples home push them to get out their ballot, tell them how to vote, seal the ballot and carry it to the mailbox for them.
If that happened at a poll – they would be arrested.
Either prohibit campaign workers from visiting peoples homes after ballots have been mailed,
or end mailin voting.
You can not do both – it is voter intimidation and voter fraud.
We did that in the 19th century it had massive problems, that is why 38 states have state constitutional amendment requiring secret ballots.
That means many things, but one of those is no one else can be present when you vote.
The voting booth is sacred – even when it is your home.
Of course that’s the case! Our democracy is not close to perfect, even though it’s probably the best in human history.
But ask yourself, how would you ever prove that some level of “fraud” (which is an elastic or fuzzy concept to begin with) was enough to secure an electoral victory?
What magical process could be followed in such a timely manner as to provide real justice, instead of just more ways to cheat in elections?
Maybe there are wise men and beneficent experts somewhere who can work this out. On the other hand, isn’t democracy itself an admission that a search for such “betters” is way too dicey?
“ There is a legitimate demand for an investigation into this scandal and censorship that clearly had some impact on the close election.”
LOL! Nope.
Ginning up demand by calling it a “scandal” is not evidence of a legitimate demand. That’s just a lot of wishful thinking on his part. Silly Turley.
Turley says, “ It is unclear what Trump is now demanding.”
Really? It couldn’t be clearer. All of us know exactly what he’s demanding. Trump clarified what he was demanding by declaring a redo should be necessary because his voter fraud claims are true, which they are not.
It’s interesting that Turley isn’t calling Trump a liar when he clearly is. He is perfectly willing to call out Biden for making false claims, but Trump gets an “it’s unclear”?
What is clear is Turley likes to treat Trump’s BS with kid gloves.
Professor Turley’s entire column is dedicated to calling out Trump. What more could he have done?
Point out more current examples of possible election malfunction, Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. Both of which had more dysfunction than anything in 2020.
You are demonstrating that you do not know what you are talking about. Florida had punch cards and the problem was that the chads didn’t disconnect like they should have. That is nothing like the cheating and machine dysfunctions we saw in 2020.
Claiming that FL and OH were worse is error.
No one claimed fraud in 2000 – I was very very worried that was coming.
Regardless, FL 2000 was an absolute disaster. It was PROOF that we MUST do better.
There are many many FL 2000 problems.
But what distinguishes FL 2000 from 2020 and 2022,
is that even if FL 2000 resulted in Gore losing when he should have won, it was democrats errors, that cost democrats the election.
What we have in 2020 ans 2022 is at BEST democrats errors in managing elections costing Republicans elections.
That can not happen (or the other way arround) even if that is honest it will ALWAYS smell like Fraud.
Florida in 2000 and OH in 2004 are very problematic – but 2020 and 2022 are much worse.
Both FL and OH were very localized problems. There was no allegation of fraud in FL 2000 – there were lots of errors that may have effected the election, but the errors were made in democratic counties, by democrats to the harm of democrats. Derschowitz continues to rant about the fact that FL butterly ballots tipped the election.
Maybe – but not fraud. Administrative incompetence by democrats to the harm of democrats.
I am not saying that is good, just that it is a far sight from fraud.
The problems in 2020 and 2022 are nearly ALL in democrat run cities and counties where the election was inarguably conducted rife with errors and the outcome favored democrats.
I have no problems with calling out problems of Republicans. Bush’s HAV voting act was a enormous mistake. Two decades later we STILL have not gotten rid of all the incredibly bad idea voting terminals that completely undermine peoples trust. I fought against those – and my recollection is that they were a factor in your claims about OH 2004.
Election integrity is a really big deal and until it gets fixed there is a near certainty that something REALLY bad will get caught eventually.
One thing about Trump he loves to deny what he screamed in public. Sadly his acolytes will believe him.
I think the public is comfortable moving beyond Trump at this point. Yes, he and we were unfairly deprived of his second term by a corrupt DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community and wound up with someone whose corrupt dealings are legion. That said, the courts rightfully avoided the controversies in the 2020 election, clearly not wanting to repeat the mistake of Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000). The Constitution says that the people – not the courts – shall choose the president and vice-president. So, we leave it to the historians to gather the facts and tell the true story of the 2020 election. Are the people willing to move on from Trump? It appears so. Since leaving the presidency, Trump has made some fatal errors in judgment. The Mar-a-Lago fiasco stands out. Knowing the Biden regime was out to get him for anything, he allowed himself to fall prey to their attacks. Why? The public is very forgiving of honest mistakes and this can be seen in how the public judged the behavior of past presidents. The public does not forgive and surely does not forget stupid mistakes that reflect serious lapses in judgment. It is, after all, a candidate’s ability to make good and sound judgments that we select the president in the first place. A lot of what Trump achieved will live for a long time. He showed that the “swamp” can be drained, ever so slowly, perhaps, but drained, nonetheless. The Biden presidency will go down in the history books as one of the most corrupt and much of this remains to be revealed by the House beginning next month. By 2024, the public once again will be looking to drain the swamp and the path seems clear that Governor DeSantis will be handed the baton by the RNC to do just that. The Constitution will once again prove resilient in the face of challenges. We, the people, in the final analysis, are more powerful than we, the media, or we, the FBI, or we, the Intel Community, or any other segment of our society or government that thinks itself supreme.
JJC,
Well said.
I agree.
JJC said: ” Yes, he and we were unfairly deprived of his second term by a corrupt DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community ”
That’s just silly. The fact are that thanks to the shenanigans and appearance of corruption of the DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community Trump received 11 million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016. Do you think there was a single Trump voter that had their mind changed about Trump because of revelations of dirty tricks by DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community.
The fact is you have to go back more than 100 years to when men only were allowed to vote to find the last time a higher percentage of eligible voters showed up for an election. The 2020 election was a referendum on Trump the voters showed up in record numbers to either vote for him or against him. The Democrats could have put up a wet piece of cardboard as their candidate and the results would have been the same.
Jinn: The corrupt FBI, DNC, and media tried but failed to unseat Trump in 2016 and beyond. The whole Mueller fiasco and the Russian collusion story was created by a corrupt FBI as an “insurance policy.” They tried again in 2020 by hiding the Hunter Biden laptop story that inculpates Joe Biden (aka “The Big Guy”) in an influence-peddling scheme that brings into question issues not only of money laundering and bribery but also of intense national security interest. These are undeniable and unspinnable facts. Even if we assume for the sake of discussion that the 2020 election outcome was accurate and honest, it does not invalidate the charge that the corrupt FBI, media and Intel Community all conspired to withhold from the public information about Biden’s alleged corruption that, polls show, would have swung the election to Trump. Do you think that the FBI’s handling of the laptop case was appropriate? The FBI had the laptop for 11 months before the election and yet was meeting weekly with Twitter and other social media companies to “suggest” that Russian disinformation was influencing the election. The FBI knew the laptop was genuine and the contents evidence of criminal behavior and yet it went out of its way to persuade the media that it was Russian propaganda. The Intel Community, likewise, joined in the “suggestion.” And don’t look for a “smoking gun.” You won’t find one. Consider, instead, the words of Henry II in his 14th century campaign against Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury. Henry asked rhetorically, “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” Shortly thereafter, four knights travelled to Canterbury and killed Becket. Sometimes, the biggest crime can be set in motion by the smallest wish. Give this story another look and leave the bias aside.
jjc said: “The corrupt FBI, DNC, and media tried but failed to unseat Trump in 2016 and beyond.”
It looked to me that the FBI got Trump elected by repeatedly announcing to the world that Clinton was the target of FBI criminal investigations while at the same time saying keeping all investigations and derogatory dossiers well hidden from the voting public.
Your post just renforces my claim that Trump voters like you had your support for Trump strengthened by the actions of the DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community. Anybody who believes Russiagate, Ukraingate, etc caused a single voter to turn against Trump has never talked to an American voter. What al the phony negative hype directed against Trump did in fact was gain Trump new voters. But for the most part the people who voted for Trump always liked him and those that hated him hated him long before the 2016 election day.
Without the DNC, FBI, media, and Intel Community acting like buffoons Trump’s popularity would have waned. Everybody new about Biden’s corruption but they don’t care. The Trump haters would vote for Al Capone over Trump.
When you call Bush v Gore a mistake, I remind you that the liberal Florida Supreme Court had to be stopped from attempting to change the voting rules to give Gore the win. SCOTUS did not pick a winner it just stopped Gore from cherry-picking recounts in only districts that favored him.
Thank you JJC. That’s a lovely little fairy tail. Fact is Republicans will never win the Whitehouse again. The Democrats have figured out just how to cheat right got in front of us (Arizona). And your “next election” nonsense will be proven to be nothing but wishful thinking.
Gosh, Rico, I hope you are wrong. Yes, it is easy to fall into a depressive state over what has happened but I still think taking a longer view is beneficial and mentally more healthy for ourselves as individuals and for the nation as a republic. It seems every election brings out apocalyptic predictions that disappear in time and to no avail, mind you. Try to look at the positive here and think that there are millions of people of all parties and beliefs looking to have an honest government that lives up to the Constitution and the expectations of the founders. And yes, Arizona is a mess but several years ago Florida was a mess, too. It takes but one election to begin turning things around. Hopefully that one election comes sooner rather than later.
Trump gave us GA 2020 and TWO Democrats. Trump gave us Oz, Masters, the Governor in PA that actually may have cost Oz the senate seat, and of course Walker. Add to this the fact that since all of these fiascos Trump has had dinner with Kanye and the other Jew hater and then called for overriding the Constitution.
If we want to end Democrat control of the WH and the Senate we need to move away from Trump, he is political poison. He is immature, unserious, naïve politically (I know he won in 2016, but that was a fluke and he wasn’t totally unhinged yet), undisciplined and he only cares about the fact that he allowed himself to get beaten by Dems that probably did cheat. Well guess what big guy, you and your lame team should have been ready for what the Dems did, this is on you. Check out the Trump legal teams and tell me he is a serious guy.
Byron York, a great columnist, has a story out today about Trump and his inability to move on. We cannot win looking backwards and Trump cannot stop looking backwards. Do any of you really want the president having dinner with Ye and the other guy? Do any of you want the president appointing Omarosa (or whatever the heck her name is) to the WH? This is not a serious guy.
Hulibobby: Don’t allow your anger to overwhelm your feelings. Trump did a lot of good for the time he was president. It may have been because he was surrounded by bright people – as every president, including the current one – will be when in office. Take away those wizards and you have a basement-dwelling, ice-cream munching, incompetent just as you have a person – Trump – who never before being POTUS was involved in politics. By the way, the people in 2016 were fed up with the corruption of the Clintons and the DNC and elected a non-politician simply because he was not a politician. Now that they have seen another example of corruption in the WH, the public is unlikely to make the same mistake again. I agree Trump’s political career is probably over and done with but he delivered on his promises and he did drain the swamp a little. Cheer up, better times are ahead.
JJC,
Again, well said.
Again, I agree.
JJC and Upstate, please don’t get me wrong, I think Trump did a great job as president, but he is hurting us now and that is all that matters. He is not loyal to anyone and we can’t get Dems elected because we are loyal to him. The conservative cause is more important. The border is more important. The military is more important. Crime is more important and the economy is more important and because of Trump we have a Democrat Senate and Joe Biden and we cannot afford another 6 years of this. Trump needs to go and he needs to go now. AND I VOTED FOR HIM IN 2020.
I agree, hullbobby, and I voted for him, too. We have to come to terms with the fact that Trump is as radioactive to swing voters as Hillary was. Three disappointing elections in a row don’t lie. It’s true that early voting and abortion hurt us in 2022, but the one constant in 2018, 2020, and 2022 was Trump. Trump had great policies but miserable messaging.
It’s true Trump took a lot of abuse–much of it horrendously unfair–but there are two types of politicians: Teflon and Velcro. Both Trump and Hillary are the latter, and Democrats paid the price in 2016 for not seeing it. Now we are paying the price. Trump’s goofy messaging made him an easy target for his enemies.
Further, Trump sat for three hours and did next to nothing on January 6th while some of his supporters were rioting on Capitol Hill. A catastrophic failure of judgment on his part. This fed right into his enemies’ narratives, yet again.
And we have to come to terms about 2020. I initially suspected the Democrats might have stolen the election, but to pull that off would have required a large conspiracy, and large conspiracies leak like a sieve. We are now two years out, and no large and nationwide conspiracy to steal votes has revealed itself with direct evidence or testimony.
There were some dirty tricks like censoring the laptop story and so forth, but outright stealing or defrauding votes so far has proven limited, and with every passing day, it’s less likely we can say enough votes were stolen or fraudulent. Trump won’t give it up. One more reason swing voters want him gone.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone, but our Constitution is now on the line, and Trump is losing the war.
I would like to qualify my statement about 2020 by saying that while it’s less and less likely 2020 was stolen in the conventional sense, early voting is a terrible idea. It took two years before I could start to accept the 2020 vote count might have been fair. These sloppy voting laws make it very hard to be confident in the vote.
Don’t be surprised if Democrats start a civil conflict because they lost and claim it was stolen at church drop boxes.
Voting should be on election day and in person. Only that chain of custody is indisputable and won’t take two years to prove an election might have been legitimate.
If you wish to beleive the 2020 count might have been fair – go ahead.
Unfortunately that is now a dead issue because in prep for the 2022 election the records of the 2020 election were destroyed in most places.
The investigations that should have happened are no longer possible.
If you have followed the TTV/Phillips/2000 Mules investigation, there is absolutely no doubt there was a large scale ballot harvesting effort in all 6 swing states. Ballot harvesting is illegal in all those states. The scale of that operation was somewhere between just under 400K ballots and over 1M – the above is proven to the same standard used to prove evidence in a criminal court.
Less established is whether these ballots were paid for – there is SOME evidence that people were paid $10/ballot to deposit ballots 5 at a time into ballot drop boxes. There is video evidence that those doing so knew they were committing a crime. They wore gloves and masks and generally only operated late at night.
The source of the ballots were 501C3/4’s affiliated with democrats.
We do not know where they got the ballots.
We do not know if they were forged, or if they were obtained by sending people door to door to collect peoples ballots.
Regardless, it is illegal.
Assuming the most favorable scenario for democrats – campaign workers were sent door to do to collect ballots – and lets assume that is legal – which in almost all states it is not.
You now have a situation where representatives from a political party are entering peoples homes with the possibility that they assist them in filing out ballots, and even that they coerce or induce them.
We had a version of this in the 19th century it ended badly, the parties were paying people for their votes.
Regardless, we do not tolerate people “assisting” voters at the polls, Why would “assisting” people in their homes be legal ?
And that is the BEST scenario for democrats.
I would note that happens all the time in CA – because that is the one place it is legal.
I would completely agree that Republicans need to take a serious look at what is happening and how to win.
But I do not agree with your analysis.
2018 was NOT a bad election. It was mild for a first term mid-term. Republicans would like to have done better, but they did not.
They did much better in the Senate than expected.
2018 was conducted according to the same voting laws we have had for a century.
2020 and 2022 were not.
There is an actual trend from 2016 through 2022. Republicans are gaining minority voters. That is a HUGE deal.
The word Trend is of significance. It means that the GOP can expect slightly more minorities in 2024 and … and …
Conversely 2020 and 2022 results reflect a sudden one time gain of young couch potato voters that vote 70+% democratic.
Democrats have been trying to get these voters for my entire lifetime. Nothing prior to 2020 has ever gotten them to vote in consequential numbers. They will voluteer for campaigns. but they do not vote in any numbers.
But 2020 and 2022 prove that if you deliver a ballot to their couch and you send people out to knock on their door and poke and prod them – they can be made to vote. Frankly that is illegal, but republicans are getting absolutely nowhere trying to fix that.
I also beleive that we had atleast 400K of actually fraudulent ballots spread over 6 swing states in 2020, and I would bet the same in 2022.
These are both again a one time increase – not a trend.
What I mean by that is democrats got – and if they continue to spend lots of money will keep a large bump in couch potato votes.
But they are NOT getting more in the future. And in fact there is real risk those numbers will slowly erode.
The same is true of the fraud. There is only so much fraud you can engage in without getting caught.
How much of the above is due to Trump ? we did not see either of these in 2016, we did not see them in 2018 – contra your claim 2018 was a mild midterm for the in party. The claim of a huge anti-trump signal is wishful thinking by the left.
In 2020 but for
Covid,
The supression of the laptop
mailin voting
fraud
Trump would have won.
22K votes would have tied the presidential election
45K would have made trump the winner.
100K would have flipped the entire election – Trump, the Senate, and the house.
2020 was that close EVERYTHING had to go right for democrats.
in 2022 the factors are
GOP mistakes. Both McConnell and MacCarthy were pumping money into elections Republicans were going to win, and starving potentially winning elections.
Early voting – Fetterman almost certainly won PA before voters knew what a disaster he was. Regardless, early voting is going to be an ongoing GOP problem, because elections tend to swing towards the GOP in the last weeks of the race. Voters that voted 6 weeks early do not get to change their mind.
mailin voting again – and Republicans are stuck with the impact of this for the forseeable future.
fraud again – it should be self evident that in exactly the same states as in 2020 Republicans must win beyond the margin of fraud in the future.
Further for reasons that make no sense to me (except possible fraud) 2022 had far more problems that 2020. Given that in 2020 we changed the way we voted at the last minute – that is weird.
Abortion – it is inarguable that there was a backlash against Dobbs in a small but significant block of voters – single women. And that probably was larger than any dobbs related gains. But I think the abortion effect is a ONE TIME effect. The trends I noted will benefit republicans a bit more in each election. The gains from mailin voting and fraud are locked in but not a trend. Abortion is a one time increase that will go away in 2024.
Biden successfully terrified the crap out of voters – especially young voters. While I know how he did it. I am completely shocked that did not backfire thoroughly – but it did not. I beleive that will be increasingly hard to repeat.
I do not discount the fact that Trump is toxic to some voters – I suspect that a couple of million voters are showing up to vote against Trump.
But there are 6-8m people who showed up in 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022 specifically because of Trump. And they will go away if Trump is not part of the election.
The very fact that DOJ is still chasing Trump on this idiotic nonsense is proof that democrats are terrified of Trump.
If Republicans do not figure out how to work things out with Trump in 2024 – they will lose.
If Trump is not part of the elections they will lose.
If we have this same garbage with Trump and his slate and the rest of the GOP and their slate – Republicans will lose.
I would further note – 2022 was a fizzle – but like 2020 the number of votes separating the fizzle from a red title wave is TINY.
Many major trump candidates without real GOP support lost, but nearly all of them very nearly won.
Trumps candidates did as well or better than the mainstream GOP candidates did in 2018 or 2020.
This is a Trump problem only in the sense that Trump ALONE is not capable of getting the ball over the finish line.
Had the GOP taken the Senate – and the difference between losing it and getting 54 seats is very small,
Trump would be the indisputed king of politics.
The GOP has a major Trump problem, but that problem is – no Trump and 6-8M Trump voters sit out the election.
The net factoring in Never Trump voters is NEGATIVE for the GOP.
What Republicans need for 2024:
They must avoid a bloody primary.
Several 2022 candidates lost because they had bruising late primaries and nto enough time to consolidate GOP voters and then work for moderates.
They must avoid a Trump DeSantis slug fest. If that occurs Republicans lose the presidency.
They need to NOT have abortion on the ballot in 2024.
They need to figure out how to Counter the All Repubicans are Nazi’s and a threat to democracy nonsense.
They need to make Biden Toxic.
They need to Push the school issue – that was a big winner for DeSantis – twice and for Youngkin. It is Democrats policy achiles heel.
They need to end the Rino/never Trump war. The Trump crew needs to grasp that there are places that MAGA candidates can not win. and the NeverTrumpers need to grasp that most of Red america is Trump country – and it is going to be for a long long long time to come.
They need to capitalize on Twitter revelations and investigate the crap out of social media.
Republicans need to POUND IN that they are the party of liberty, the party of free speech.
Make every culture war issue about KIDS.
What Republicans have going for them:
Democrats have F’d up, and the consequences of that are still coming. The country, even the world are going into recession – probably a bad one, and there is nothing that can be done. I do not think it is necescary for the GOP to DIE fighting Biden. The key thing house republicans need to focus on in the next two years is NOT thwarting Biden/Democrats at every turn, but NOT positioning themselves to be the causes of the failure that is inevitable, and making sure that anything that is passed in the next two years is reversable in 2024 trivially.
Give Biden whatever he wants as long as it looks like the GOP put up a fight AND the concession is trivially reversable.
The very narrow majority in the house provides repubicans a political advantage. On votes that Republicans can win, but would shut down the government or something else that will get them tarred and feathered – even if it is the right thing to do – send a couple of Republican congressmen in 2024 vulnerable districts home – have them catch the flu, or have a family emergency.
Let Republicans lose the vote without voting for something that is a bad idea.
Let Democrats own the economy in 2024. It is not going to be good.
And it likely will be worse if Democrats get to do what they want.
The underlying problem is not those who hate Trump, it is not the infighting inherent in choosing the correct nominee, though cheating is very much involved, it is not the cheating. The one thing killing the nation from repelling the socialists is the Rino’s in the Republican Party. Republicans can win by the numbers but lose in how the winners vote in Congress. They are not conservatives. They are almost a part of the Democrat Party.
I can’t stand being a Republican, so I am on and off because I want to vote in the primaries. We need to oust McConnell and probably even Ryan who will likely assume the Speaker position. What has the Republican Party done to promote a more conservative agenda? Very little. That is the big problem because even when the Republicans win, we lose.
Trump offers something different, and so might several others. He is willing to break up the monopoly of insiders and work for the people, not for those in power.
(Note: I use the term conservative in a general sense )
I am offended periodically by the conduct of some non-MAGA republicans.
But it is not their differences with MAGA republicans that bothers me.
I do not share the same positions as Trump or MAGA republicans.
It is not their willingness to compromise that offends me.
It is the willingness of SOME to compromise THEIR values.
Sienama just left the Democratic party. This does not appear to change anything in the Senate.
Except that it makes it clear that Democrats are NOT going to be able to get 51 votes to eliminate the Fillibuster and that it will be as hard in 2023 for Democrats to pass legislation in the Senate as it was in 2021-2022.
I am increasingly surprised by Sienema. When she was running in AZ I opposed her, and accepted that she was pretty far to the left.
It is increasingly evident that while despite changing to an independent that she is more of a liberal democrat from the past than the progressive I thought she was.
Regardless, Republicans should be no more looking to Drive the Romney’s ans Sasse’s out of the GOP than Democrats should have driven Gabbard and Sienema out.
I find it interesting that Sienema identifies as one of her best friends in congress as Rep. Any Biggs who is a MAGA firebrand.
Yet, they get alone and like each other.
“Trump gave us . . .”
Last I checked, Trump’s endorsement record was about: 230-20.
That’s a pretty good batting average.
Yes we want Trump having dinner with Ye and Nick the knife.
Yes, we want him telling you idiots there are good people on both sides while you scream we will replace you and the un-namable people are not in power. YES YES YES WE WANT IT. A LOT OF IT.
Trump, his base and his party should be concerned more about why Georgia counties which supported Walker in the midterms, flipped for Warnock in the run-off. Miller’s review of Trumps accomplishments pales in the light of the way Trump comports himself in the public arena. His bombast is his Achilles heel. I would not support him in a primary if DeSantis were to be a contender.. There are more pressing matters to devote your comments to this day.
Well that’s very convenient for Turley’s side. “We cheated, too bad, live with it.” No, 2024 is not a “redo” of 2020. Americans have the right to free and fair elections. When that right is abrogated, Americans have the right to redress, and not in the form of “better luck next time, losers” as Turley suggests.
“Americans have the right to free and fair elections.”
So what exactly would you be proposing?
Do you want the govt to step in and decide what is accurate information and what is disinformation?
Do you want the govt to regulate the order in which web links are presented when you search the web?
Exactly. The excuses all roll to the can kicked downhill, then when at the bottom of the hill the new worse same crime is lofted to the next, now a mountain, and they say “see, everything is fine!” “we have our stable democracy!” “there is no other solution!”
We all know better. The solution is Trump is installed, and the “lawyerly defenders of demoncracy and pomp and circumstantial lies” get to work their pursed lip magic on a plausible explanation to fool their skumbucket peers and loser followers “to defend democracy”.
Oh wouldn’t that be grand, making them spin up their tales for justice and decency and the truth. They’d be grinding their teeth the whole way.
No they do not get a do over. They get what is called “kicked to the curb for criminality”.
Maybe a better question is can the Congress take action against those involved??? Because as I see it based on evidence to this point, besides the Political appointees the top 3 of our Executive Branch were into this up to the top of their heads!!
During his first term, in the face of never-ending opposition from the left and his own party, Donald Trump accomplished gasoline under $2 a gallon, record low unemployment, inflation at 2 percent, the end of NAFTA, better trade agreements with Canada and Mexico, increased tariffs on products from Communist China, a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration, reduced regulation of American businesses, American energy independence, the creation of opportunity zones in low-income communities, reduced missile testing by North Korea, cancellation of the Obama nuclear weapons agreement with Iran, recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the brokering of historic trade agreements between Israel and its Arab neighbors, a Republican party that is welcoming to people of all races and classes, the appointment of over 240 American judges who believe in following the Constitution, and the appointment of three Supreme Court justices who believe in following the Constitution. In June 2022, seventeen months after Trump left the White House, the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade.
Miller, Trump did a great job as president but because of him we now have Biden. If you want another 4 years of Biden (or Harris) then keep Trump in the picture. If you want a Republican wave in 2024 then move away from Trump and do it now.
I voted for Trump in 2020 and I would probably vote for him again if Biden is the nominee of the Dems, but I will vote for any other Republican against Trump in the primaries. ANY OTHER REPUBLICAN!
Trump 24
Trump is a Constitutional imbecile, he’s right up there with modern day Democrats.
Although Turley champions free speech (which is a good thing) ultimately it is the doctrine of free speech as it is interpreted by the supreme court that dictates that what Twitter did is (or is doing) is not in violation of any federal law.
SCOTUS has determined in Citizen’s United that corporations can use their resources to influence elections and sway the public to believe whatever the corporation wants the public to believe. According to SCOTUS government cannot infringe on this right. Therefore Twitter is/was just doing what the court has allowed.
“[W]hat Twitter did is (or is doing) is not in violation of any federal law.”
BS.
When a private company censors at the request of a government agent, that’s worse than a violation of Federal law. It is unConstitutional, a violation of 1A — and a violation of the target’s civil rights.
When a private company censors at the request of a government agent, that’s worse than a violation of Federal law.
HA HA HA that may well be your belief that it is worse than a violation of law, but nevertheless it has to actually be a violation of law for anything to happen.
The Constitution is part of Federal law and SCOTUS has ruled that Corporations are allowed to try to influence elections. SCOTUS decides what is the law – you don’t get to decide.
You might also believe that speaking ill of Allah and Muhammad is worse than a violation of federal law but all I would do is laugh at that also.
“[I]t has to actually be a violation of law for anything to happen.”
So the Constitution is *not* “the supreme Law of the Land”?!
You must be thinking of a different country, perhaps Venezuela.
(Your “ha ha” is a child’s ad hominem.)
Trumps call for a redo is nothing more than political bluster. He know it will not happen for the reasons Turley cites above. Some have said conservatives should move on from Trump but who could withstand what Trump has withstood over the past 6 years? The Democrats have a winning combination of the media, government agencies standing by their side, and an incompetent Republican party. Unless this changes the two party system is dead.
Exactly! I don’t know how he has withstood all the crap the Democrats have put out there, and without a strong candidate running in 2024, the Republican Party is screwed. The Republicans have shown their cowardice enough in 2022.
This is a symptom, the whole; Russia Gate, Laptop Gate , Trump Tax Gate, the next Gate of Gates ….
It’s when a Person does not know when to quit. That’s the problem. [a bit similar to Addiction]
If I were to say; “this all stems from Hillary Clinton not knowing when to quit” or “this all stems from Donald Trump not knowing when to quit” One view or another would find that to be true. But the fact remains that They didn’t know when to quit.
Term Limits are not enough, because a Politician will just find another Office, thus Careers in Politics can be had for a lifetime.
‘Political-Careers’ should be abolished (You get 1-shot in office and your out for Life), ‘Political-Party’ Terms-Limits should be set (a Party can only hold a seat for 2 terms then they are band for two terms). And then there’s the Fifth Estate, “The Booze”, if you will.
These aren’t all the answers, but there is something(s) that can be done to put a stop to the endless & ever evolving cycle of addictive-behavior in our political system.
Political career longevity is not the biggest problem. The effect of politicians catering to dark money is the main problem.
Today that would be democrats.
Regardless, that is actually free speech.
I know free speech does nto actually mean anything to left wing nuts.
But I BOTH want people to be able to contribute as much as they want even anonymously to whatever campaigns as they want
AND to not be canceled on Social media and to not have anything the post or link to be supressd or silenced – because both are free speech.
And without freedom – all the democracy that the left rants about is hypocritical lying to acheive fascism.