Below is my column in the Washington Post on the controversy over the possible use of pardon authority by President Donald Trump to protect his family and aides involved in the Russian investigation. Trump’s tweet reference to his “complete power to pardon” fueled rumors that he is considering pardons, including a possible self-pardon.
In using his power to pardon potential witnesses against him, Trump probably would convert a weak criminal investigation into a full-fledged impeachment effort. In 1833, Chief Justice John Marshall upheld a presidential pardon by Andrew Jackson by saying that a pardon is “an act of grace” by a president. A pardon in these circumstances would not be viewed as an act of grace, but a gratuity from an isolated president.
Trump clearly possesses the authority to pardon associates and family members under Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which states that the president “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” Although presidents have tended to wait for convictions before issuing pardons, Trump can do so in anticipation of federal charges. In Ex parte Garland in 1866, the Supreme Court ruled that the pardon power “may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.” That is precisely what Gerald Ford did when he pardoned Richard Nixon before any charges were brought against him.
The issue of whether a president can pardon himself is one of the unanswered questions of the Constitution; it has never happened in the history of our republic. Even Nixon did not stoop to a self-pardon, although he did research it. Neither did Andrew Johnson or Bill Clinton, both of whom were impeached by the House but not removed from office by the Senate. Such an act would make the White House look like the Bada Bing Club. After a self-pardon, Trump could wipe out the Islamic State, trigger an economic golden age and solve global warming with a carbon-eating border wall — and no one would notice. He would simply go down in history as the man who not only pardoned his family members but himself.
Pardoning his associates at this stage would clearly have a tactical benefit, but the historical and political costs of that would be immense. The most obvious reason for issuing pardons now would not be to protect any of the key people from jail but to limit Mueller’s leverage over witnesses. Mueller has selected a team of prosecutorial heavies, some of whom are known for flipping witnesses and using pressure to secure their cooperation. A pardon removes that option and reinforces the ability of close associates to take a hard line with investigators.
Of course, the use of the pardon power to protect the president’s political allies and family members would be legitimately decried as an abuse. It would not, however, be unprecedented.
President Thomas Jefferson pardoned Jeffersonian Republicans accused of treason under the Alien and Sedition Act. He also issued a pardon for Erick Bollman that would have allowed Bollman to testify against Aaron Burr in 1807. Jefferson and Burr had received the same number electoral votes for the presidency (a tie broken by Alexander Hamilton, whose own conflicts with Burr would later lead to the duel in which Burr killed him). After Burr became vice president, Jefferson wanted Bollman to testify against Burr for alleged treason in plotting with the British to create a new country out of territory in the Southwest and Mexico. Bollman, however, refused to accept the pardon and thus did not testify.
The most recent abuse of pardon power was by Clinton. He waited until his last day in office to pardon billionaire Marc Rich, generally considered one of the least worthy recipients of a pardon in history. Jimmy Carter denounced the abuse of the pardon power for Rich as “disgraceful” and attributed Clinton’s decision to “his large gifts.” Worse yet, on the same day, Clinton pardoned his half-brother, Roger Clinton, in an open abuse of pardon power to benefit his family.
Trump could attempt to justify pardons on the basis that any mistakes committed last year were simply the result of novice aides unfamiliar with politics. After all, in 1795, George Washington pardoned the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion, justifying his decision by dismissing one of them as “little short of an idiot.” The idiot rationale, though, does not sit well with Trump’s “anyone would have taken that meeting” defense. Nor would it be in keeping with Trump’s carefully maintained public image of himself and his children.
Some of Trump’s aides could obviously use a pardon. Paul Manafort and Michael T. Flynn are facing credible claims of violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act. However, FARA violations are almost uniformly addressed administratively, not through criminal prosecutions. Indeed, there have been only three prosecutions under FARA since 1966, when the law was last revised. Nevertheless, prosecutors could threaten a FARA charge to induce cooperation. Likewise, Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner will be questioned before congressional committees starting next week; the risk of false or misleading statements will be at their apex. One such false statement to investigators can be charged as a violation of 18 U.S.C. 1001, or a false statement under oath to the committees can be charged as perjury. That can be considerable leverage for prosecutors.
But pardons would not end the investigation. Even if everyone were pardoned, Mueller could — and probably would — issue a report to Congress. Likewise, the congressional investigations would continue. Indeed, with pardons, witnesses could lose protections against self-incrimination and could more easily be forced to testify. New crimes such as perjury could fall outside of the pardon, and such a pardon would not protect against state charges. Finally, the difference could be that the focus would shift from potential counts for indictment to counts for impeachment. That change is not an improvement. The existing claims of criminal conduct on Trump’s part are relatively weak and speculative. To move from the legal to the political forum is to leave strategic high ground for a quagmire.
Tactical pardons are like burning bridges to slow an investigation. That has rarely stopped a determined foe. Indeed, it tends to encourage and swell the ranks of opponents.
In the end, a pardon of Trump’s allies and family — let alone himself — would destroy any legacy of Trump’s and demean his office. The presidential pardon remains one of the most majestic and storied powers of our Constitution. Hamilton once stated that the unfettered power given to a president reflects its foundation in “humanity and good policy.” Neither would justify pardons at this stage of the investigation.
Jim Sinclair’s Commentary
I think there is no saving this place or these people.
New Wikileaks Emails Show CNN, NBC And Washington Post Worked With DNC To Influence Election
July 22, 2017
A new batch of over 8,000 emails exposed by WikiLeaks revealed that staffers from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) wrote questions for CNN news anchor Wolf Blitzer for when he interviewed then Presidential candidate Donald Trump. Emails dating as far back to 2015 show the mainstream media colluding with the DNC and Democratic candidates.
Among the 8,263 emails released by WikiLeaks, one shows staff working for the CNN network asking DNC staffers what questions they should quiz Republican candidates on, including Trump and Ted Cruz.
The emails make it clear the DNC was working in cahoots with CNN during the 2016 Presidential election. In a colluding effort to help Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton win over Trump, or possibly Cruz, CNN worked effortlessly with the Democratic party, the DNC, and staffers from the party to develop interviews with calculated questioning to make Republican candidates look poor in hopes of influencing the election.
More…
https://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/images/Jims-mailbox_BAB2/clip_image002_thumb.jpg
An interesting question regarding Sessions recusal by Tom Fitton.
“I think he should reevaluate his recusals,”
“If Mueller is doing everything he’s being reported as doing, that’s beyond what anyone signed up for in terms of the scope of Sessions’ recusal.”
“It’s an ethics question, it’s not a legal question,” … “Circumstances have changed given the nature of the investigation.”
Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor, told The Daily Beast
“I’m sure he has the authority to do so,”
Trump can certainly pardon all his family members and staff, I have no idea what Congressional intent is regarding himself but it’s theoretically possible. If he does pardon Manafort, Flynn, Kushner, et al and they later commit perjury to protect him. Does he just pardon them again?
In the few days since Turley posted his op-ed, it has been no less than ridiculed by his peers on the basis that it would allow Trump to commit ANY criminal act — Including MURDER — and simply pardon himself for the crime. Turley has never responded to this argument, just as he has never responded to the now repeated fact that the power of self-pardon has never been applied in human history. Yet Turley continues to promote his utterly discredited and non-consensus view as if it has merit: It doesn’t.
More disturbing, however, is Turley’s continual silence on Trump’s manifest abuse of power and his fitness for office itself. Today, 7/25/2017, marks an important turning point on these issues: (1) Trump called HRC a “criminal” and said the DOJ should prosecute her for her crimes, which Senator Graham all but called an abuse of power. (2) Trump accused acting FBI director Andrew McCabe of corruption without any evidence, which, with his recent threats to Robert Mueller, his accusations of negligence against Rosenstein, his claims that James Comey is a liar who tried to blackmail him, his obvious efforts to fire Jeff Sessions, and his persistent discrediting of U.S. intelligence agencies on Russia, collectively amount to an attack of the U.S. justice system that is an unprecedented danger in our history.
And Turley is completely SILENT.
In terms of Trump’s fitness for office, which has been called into question during his campaign for his leading the Birther movement, for calling for HRC to be jailed, for saying Pres. Obama is the actual founder of ISIS, for bragging about grabbing women’s pussies, etc., etc., today marks the first time a leading psychiatric organization has gone on record to allow its members to publicly assert that Trump’s psychological state poses a potential real danger to the nation.
And Turley is completely SILENT.
Why?
Holding out for the “hail mary” potential SCOTUS appointment from Trump?
If so, Turley should be sure to put a poster of this in his SCOTUS chamber:
https://twitter.com/MrDanZak/status/889617053447008256
Politicizing the Boy Scouts is a disgusting development.
Turley SILENT. He won’t even comment on how Trump’s Boy Scout speech reflects the horrors of fascism:
https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/889677939750711296
Turley SILENT.
He won’t even disavow Birtherism, or acknowledge Trump’s racism in any meaningful way.
In Turley’s world, it’s fine to call Obama the Founder of ISIS, a terrorist, a spy.
It’s fine to call HRC a criminal and call for her imprisonment.
It’s fine to call into question all the leaders our entire justice system.
Turley SILENT.
JT’s silence should tell you something, but you simply are not listening.
I am listening. Turley’s silence is DEAFENING. It says he’s COMPLICIT.
Roach,
You are trying to assemble a puzzle where you have the picture but you have no idea if the pieces you have even go with this picture. Put down the scissors, because no matter how you slice it, the picture will still appear to be the work of a crazy person. Instead, try assembling the pieces and see what picture emerges.
J. Mclaughlin — eminent patriot. war vet, leader:
https://twitter.com/jmclaughlinSAIS/status/889675861259165696
Turley: SILENT.
Brainwashing and indoctrinating America’s youth with redistributionist, anti-American-sovereignty, globalist propaganda, applied liberally by lazy, greedy, striking teachers union thugs in public schools on a daily basis, is unconstitutional, tyrannical and oppressive despotism.
Jay, Did you ever notice how the left has politicized education in this country?
You mean, by teaching science as science ? I have read about the difficulties HS biology teachers have in rural and Southern areas.
No, I mean teaching left wing propaganda in schools and using violence at the University level to keep conservatives out.
I have no problem with teaching science the way science should be taught, but it shouldn’t become religious indoctrination by either side.
In certain religious schools they teach the Bible in one class and science in another. When in Bible class argue the Bible. When in science class argue science.
I don’t think the problem you talk about persists in very many public schools.
What sort of “left wing propaganda” are you referring to? Can you give some examples?
It’s highly reported, but difficult to demonstrate without comparing textbooks. I think I shall do some searches for actual textbook revisions. We know what is being taught has changed, but probably need an educator to document the changes. I know Muslim bias was found in textbooks, documented and removed. I would like to find the same for this situation, but I don’t know if that is possible.
Instead I will provide you with one example of left wing propaganda in Chicago. Intermittently we read about these things in the news so this is one of many that happened recently.
Political watchdog groups are decrying the actions of Chicago Public Schools after a letter sent home to parents criticizing President Trump and the Illinois GOP for “cheating” children.
“Dear Families,” the letter begins. “Governor Bruce Rauner, just like President Trump, has decided to attack those who need the most help. Governor Rauner and President Trump regularly attack Chicago because they hope to score political points. It is shameful.”
There is no way to sugar-coat the rest of this news. If we are not able to win the political battles in Springfield, we will have to make more cuts. Those cuts will be even more painful. We need not just the $215 million first step that the Governor has stolen from your children. We need real change that is fair to your children.
“But while the Governor and his friends fight about how to solve the problem,” they continue,” they know that every day they cheat your children of their fair share, they can score political points with their own supporters. Just like President Trump.”
And like President Trump, Governor Rauner is targeting our most vulnerable citizens: immigrant children, racial minorities, the poor.
“Please join with us in demanding that the Governor and his friends stop acting like President Trump. Please join us in demanding that your children receive their fair share of money Illinois spends, ” the letter concludes. “Please join us in demanding that your children receive the quality education they deserve.”
WGN says one parent contacted them in anger over the letter, writing of CPS CEO Forrest Claypool, “This is so inappropriate. How can he send political propaganda home?”
Sarah Brune of the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform heavily criticized the action.
Invoking partisan politics – especially at the national level – is not the most effective way to build trust with parents and students.
Education is becoming more and more a fiery issue with the new administration as Democrats roundly criticized his nomination for the secretary of education, Betsy DeVos, and ultimately forced Vice President to break the vote tie and have her confirmed. Chicago has also been the target of much of Trump’s rhetoric from his tweets to his speeches.
“And Turley is completely SILENT. Why?”
Turley is center left. He isn’t silent as can be seen from his publications.
The problem is that you don’t understand the law nor do you know the difference between opinion and fact.
You have a distorted way of thinking and are blaming the messenger.
The problem is you have not refuted a single word I’ve written. Not one. Do that first before blithely dismissing me as someone who is uninformed.
I did the first time you asked and I didn’t hear a response from you.
I never saw it. More than happy to respond: Just list ONE example here:
Go above and look for my answer. I actually gave 2 because on one I agreed with Olly.
“Does he just pardon them again?”
Great question. Another great question is:
If communists steal other people’s money from Americans then give it to the “untouchables” as welfare, does in then proceed to favor them further with quotas, social services, Obongocare and affirmative action, etc. too?
I fully understand your shrewd question. Where does it all end? Tytler says “dictatorship.” Are we there yet?
Exactly how much “free stuff” can parasites extract from their host?
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the people discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy–to be followed by a dictatorship.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler
If you have a question about Communists, you likely should be checking with those collaborating with them.
He should pardon his family and friends. And Prosecute the media. Lock em up in the concentration camps FDR built in the deserts in California for the Japs in WWII.
That’s no fun. How about a full-blown civil war, with live ammunition?
Donald J.Trump is our President.
Despite the many roadblocks placed in his
Path everydayhe is doing a remarkable job.
Wait until the witch hunt cloud is removed .
You will see a new America.
Dems.had 8 years and gave us this mess.
The sewer is being cleaned.
No, Bush gave us this mess. Our system is dysfunctional. We are an oligarchy. Our representatives are bought and paid for by the special interest and oligarchs. We are a socially backward nation. But, we do have more nuclear aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined and our President is turning the Boy Scouts into the Trump Youth, modeled after the Hitler Youth. Wake up and smell the sewer. It originates in every American mindless ego.
issac – we have a two ocean navy which requires more aircraft carriers. Carriers have to be constantly updated with new equipment and designs. When you live in a country like Canada that depends on the USA to protect them, you don’t need as many carriers. If we decide to stop protecting Canada, watch them go into a defense building program.
Pat, somehow or other the US is dividing into two separate universes. The US that you see doesn’t look anything like the US that I see. From my perspective, the only thing remarkable about Trump is his megalomania, narcissism, cronyism and nepotism. From my perspective, the “witch hunt” will reveal that he and his clan are the most egregious witches of all. From my perspective, America is devolving into a “new America” that is a master/serf state, where the poor and unfortunate will be left to rot while the multimillionaires and billionaires will party like never before. From my perspective, the 8 years of Obama set us on a road to a decent society that tried to take care of everybody. The sewer is now fuller than ever, and crawling with the vilest creatures imaginable.
We need to have a divorce. Left Coast, Right Coast, and Flyover Country. In my view, the only way to have a “New America” is to have two or three separate ones, with radically different philosophies. I hope the divorce can be amicable. I didn’t use to feel this way, but that is how I now see things progressing.
A cold civil war is going on says Bernstein. Don’t know that it is flyover country versus the coasts as there are red communities in Maine and Washington and blue communities in Texas and and Michigan.
Some Trumpers on this blog have threatened to get their guns so it might not stay cold for long although they might need to be reminded that the guy that was misled about Comet Pizza got 5 years.
From my perspective, the 8 years of Obama set us on a road to a decent society that tried to take care of everybody.
You’ve got nothing on Rip Van Winkle. We’ve been dividing long before Obama took office, he merely doubled the progressive’s effort as if the transformation from limited self-government, self-reliance and liberty to the administrative state you describe had to be completed on his watch. That ego-driven approach is what has been rejected over recent election cycles and it has led to the election of this President.
We don’t need a divorce but rather a reconciliation. The marriage between the people and our form of government is still viable. This love triangle we currently have going on with the Progressives invading our home must end. The people are rejecting the all-controlling, abusive progressive party in this triangle. They don’t need to be taken care of. They need a partner that does what they promised to do in their vows, nothing more and nothing less. If your worldview is so corrupt that you see the need for the government to care for everybody, then grab a burqa and join the lovefest going on in Europe.
There are winners and losers in society. That question that I ask is, what should happen to the losers? How miserable should they be? If “self reliance” results in many millions in desperate straits, what then? Should we chastise the unfortunate and abandon the sick, in the hope that they will spontaneously turn into sturdy independent small business owners?
The concentration of wealth that is occurring in this country, leads (it seems to me) to ever more losers. Do we just say “tough luck” and step over the bodies?
That question that I ask is, what should happen to the losers? How miserable should they be?
It’s unfortunate you view outcomes as winners and losers. People will be as miserable as they want to be. I know wealthy people that are miserable and homeless people that are happy.
One thing is true of human nature; an individual that succeeds by his own labor will measure success by the effort first, not the outcome.
Are you suggesting that the sick, downtrodden, and unfortunate should just be persuaded that they ought to be happy?
Are you suggesting that the sick, downtrodden, and unfortunate should just be persuaded that they ought to be happy?
If they need to be persuaded, then they’ve given up pursuing that natural right. And why would they give up that pursuit? Because they’ve been conditioned to believe individual happiness is out of their control. My wife has cancer, her brother died of cancer. But she considers all the things she has been blessed with and she strives to teach my son that happiness is a state of mind. My son is being taught that his happiness comes from his hard work, not from anything we provide him. I want him to know how not to become a victim and dependent of the state.
Jay, you should be helping those sick and downtrodden, not just talking about it.
Allan,
These are worldview differences that are miles apart. When you, I or other conservatives talk about self-reliance and limited government, we believe government’s role is to create an environment where people are free to pursue happiness. On the other side of the equation, the Left believes it is the government’s role to create the agencies necessary to provide the promise of happiness. The former enhances a culture of self-reliance; the latter enhances a culture of dependency.
By the way, what makes you think that I would want to invade your home ?????
Actually the people rejected Trump but because of the unfair political system we have, he still managed to win.
His win was a confluence of many factors. Many commenters seem to think it was just one or two things, but I believe it was many. Poor messaging on Hillary’s part (too many policy wonks, and not enough bumper-sticker writers), Comey’s 11th-hour email kerfuffle, Russian intrique, dislike of rural residents for city-dwellers, probably other factors.
If Will Shakespeare was still around,would he classify a play based on the Trump saga as (1) an historical, (2) a tragedy, (3) a comedy or (4) all of the above?
The Drifter – Shakespeare would say give him some time. BTW, all Shakespeare plays are 5 acts.
Just 1 and 2. See “The Handmaids’ Tale.”
Jay S – historical tragicomedy is a play classification.
I will say 4 based on his performance at the Boy Scout Jamboree yesterday.
What a mess America has got itself embroiled in. Trump, is simply NOT fit to sit in the Oval Office.
Neither is Hillary.
My grandson said to be the other day, the two party system is not working.
The first move is to get rid of private funding of elections. The true democracies have done it. What’s wrong with us, the world’s phoniest democracy, an oligarchy, two parties, one more than a dictatorship.
If money represented labor, diligence and innovation, then those with money might be appropriately worthy of selecting leaders. Unfortunately, today money represents mostly theft, scams, corruption, greed, inheritance, and gambling.
issac – I keep telling you to get an American Civics book. We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
issac – I always take my meds. They are right by my computer. 🙂
Yeah, the American system is the best one money can buy…… Citizens United was a giant nail in the coffin.
Here’s a list of Obama pardons: They include drug dealers, mail fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, aggravated identity theft
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons
Teapot, meet Tempus.
I think you meant “tempest.”
Like I’ve said before nothing like a little stress to check a system’s efficiency.
Meanwhile ATD, All Things Democrat, continue to offer nothing other than scorn and Rachel Maddow’s incessant soap opera in real time yarns about just how despicable and debased our political structure has become under our current POTUS. The guests she has on just describe how things are, while offering no solutions to remedy the symptoms. That crap gets old fast.
On another note:
Which Game of Thrones character is Trump?
Suggestions?
“Which Game of Thrones character is Trump?”
~+~
He is Aerys II Targaryen, according to our host in a previous article.
https://jonathanturley.org/2016/10/24/americas-game-of-thrones-election-hates-as-good-a-thing-as-any-to-keep-a-person-voting-better-than-most/
I think he is Joffrey Baratheon if he had lived a bit longer.
Sooo, let me give this little hypothetical, and see how people think:
Twenty-one year old Tabitha Goodbody has been arrested for being a witch, and is currently in lockup. Ten women similarly accused have already been found guilty, and hung. Tonight, Tabitha’s jailer forgot to lock her jail cell.
Should Tabitha:
1) Vamoose out of the jail cell and head for the hills at all possible haste;
2) Stay in jail and let the legal procedures continue to operate, because it is really bad wrong to escape from jail and run to escape prosecution.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – hypothetically what year would this witch trial be taking place and where?
SFGR, being a witch, Tabitha should wait ’til she’s about to be hung and use her magic and deny the hangman his prize.
Sooo, let’s change this little hypothetical to better fit the particular circumstances in question:
One day, the Devil approaches twenty-one year old Tabitha Goodbody and makes her an offer. “I’ll make you all-powerful, the Lord Protector of this town. Guardian of church and state. Whaddaya say?” Tabitha agrees but wonders how he’s going to do this. “Oh, it’s child’s play,” the Devil reassures her. “I’ll dig up some dirt on Hester Clearwell, some letters from long ago that she was careless with. Neither here nor there. But…with them, I’ll be able to sway the townfolk, those gullible fools. They’ll elect you into office. But just remember who made this all happen.
Sure enough, Tabitha becomes Lord Protector. And soon after, people begin noticing how Tabitha seems to be all buddy buddy with the Devil. Inviting the Devil’s emissaries to her house, laughing it up with him. At first, she denies that she has anything to do with him. But when the mark of the Devil appears on some of her closest family members, she changes her tune. “So what if I made a deal with the Devil? Believe me, you or anyone else would do the same if he offered you absolute power! Sheesh, it’s not like I’m offering up virgins to him so get off my back!”
But they don’t. Rev. Brimstone starts an investigation. “Come clean and step down from office. If you do, I’ll give you the Lord’s Blessing which will absolve you of all your sins.” Tabitha, full of her newfound power, isn’t having any of it. “You’re a big phony. You and your church and your God! You holier-than-thou hypocrites! Know what? I’ll bless MYSELF. And after I do that, I’m coming after YOU, Reverend. My followers LOVE me because they’re tried of having to be nice. Tried of people like YOU telling them they can’t push around people they don’t like. I tell ’em go aheah! We’re taking this town back and if you’re not careful, Reverend, I’ll destroy you!”
“I’ll dig up some dirt on Hester Clearwell, some letters from long ago that she was careless with. Neither here nor there.
Evidence of a crime.
And soon after, people begin noticing how Tabitha seems to be all buddy buddy with the Devil. Inviting the Devil’s emissaries to her house, laughing it up with him.
No evidence of a crime.
Thank you for your honesty. So the Left takes the position that the now exposed crime should not be prosecuted and instead they begin to move heaven and earth to terminate the criminal’s opponent. Oh, and never forget that a legitimate election process rejected the actual criminal.
I believe you have not identified the correct person that has made a deal with the devil. She was seen for what she was and nothing can be done by those with the mark to change that history. But you can keep trying.
More popcorn please. MPP
Did Trump win the popular vote? It’s a simple question- yes or no?
Nope. Did Trump win the Electoral College vote? It’s a simple question- yes or no?
Do you know what they call a candidate that loses the popular vote but wins the electoral college vote?
Yup, Mr. or Madam President. Fortunately it’s Mr. President. 🙂
Considering how well the country fared under the last President that lost the popular vote but won the election, I wouldn’t call that fortunate.
Hillary won the unassimilable, incongruous illegal invasion/immigration vote in California which was created for this very purpose by the anti-American-sovereignty, redistributionist globalists.
It was an artificial vote of the illegal hyphenates against a constitutional vote of Americans.
President Trump and patriots will have to vigorously address this issue in the very near future.
Gorsuch. Yup, fortunate! 🙂
LS – Trump won the popular vote in the states that counted. The Electoral College selects the President and Vice President. The people vote for electors to the Electoral College. Civics 101.
So, there are states that count and states that don’t count. In essence, what you’re saying is that if you live in one of the states that doesn’t count, your vote is worthless. Real nice civics there.
Trump won the popular vote in the states that counted.
Please allow me to do the critical-thinking for you; I don’t want you to labor too long on this.
What I believe Paul is referring to is Trump won the popular vote in the states that would bring an electoral college victory. Now for me living in California, I would tell you that my district did well for the conservative cause but not for the state. So my vote still counts, at least down ticket.
LS – what I am saying is you vote for electors and they vote for the President and Vice President. Most states are winner take all. Trump got enough Electoral votes to win, Hillary didn’t. Popular vote doesn’t count and the fly over states are unlikely to give up that right. My guess would be that any amendment to change to Constitution to popular vote is dead in the water. It will not get out of Congress.
If LS were educated in American History (s)he would know why the electoral college was created and he would understand why there is no way that the smaller states or the people in sufficient numbers would ever choose to change it to the popular vote.
LS wants a Constitution that only fits his personal desires and that isn’t going to happen. I don’t even know if he understands why we are not a democracy and that the founding fathers were afraid of having a democracy. That is why the founders created a Constitutional Republic.
We really have to educate our children in American History and the philosophy behind the Constitution. The left would prefer that American History die and be buried for they represent repression and slavery.
The left would prefer that American History die and be buried for they represent repression and slavery.
A friend of mine joined a delegation that went to D.C. to meet with members of Congress. They came away with the opinion that the run-of-the-mill member isn’t there to do harm; they just see themselves as doing good without any consideration or understanding of the long-term harm they are doing. The leadership however on both sides of the aisle is a different story. They know exactly what they are doing. Repression and slavery? Not so much from the average congressperson, but the leadership, of course.
I think many are there for themselves. Think of insider trading and how long it took to change the laws in Congress to prevent them from doing those things normal citizens go to jail for. Think of the ACA and how they protected themselves. Think of their salary increases at night and their pensions that are for life after how many years?
They pander and garner votes by presenting themselves in a fashion desired by the voter, but at the same time behind closed doors deal with the lobbyists.
Look at how the ACA was passed. This was a bill that affected each American citizen. They lied and Gruber finally admitted the lies. That is how arrogant they are. The left plays the game of dividing Americans by race, by gender, by income, by profession etc. destroying the cohesiveness of a nation making one person turn on another. This is sickening.
Allan,
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t trust any of them. As a body, they are no different than a drug cartel. They sell the high and the people get addicted to it. It’s a vicious cycle that makes the political class dependent on the voters and the voters dependent on the political class. The rise of Trump is a political intervention that will test this country like it hasn’t been tested before.
You don’t have a problem then with Trump colluding with the Russians? A country that attacked our election system with the aim of getting Trump elected President. I find that very surprising from someone that flaunts their military service to this country and trumpets their desire to keep it safe from its enemies.
I served during and after the cold war. I stood watch at sea tracking Soviet submarines and surface combatants. I also stood watch in my homeport and shore commands alert to threats both foreign and domestic. I have in my entire adult life never seen a threat more seditious to this country than what is coming from the Left. They have ignored blatant corruption and criminal acts to a degree that no reasonable person could ignore. They (and the progressive right) have weaponized our government against the people that would make any foreign threat envious. Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran and other foreign governments won’t ever succeed in destroying our country. Theirs is a long game and all they need to do is wait for us to do it ourselves.
You don’t have a problem then with Trump colluding with the Russians?
What does that mean to you, colluding? Colluding like when someone tips off the police with evidence that a crime has been committed? Or colluding with a criminal to commit a crime? Please tell me what collusion has taken place and what evidence that collusion has harmed the United States.
Olly, some of these people don’t understand what it is to be an American. They were born American so all they can do is take, demand and refuse to understand the Constitution and our Republic. They haven’t learned how to give. In fact sometimes they are downright silly and will use any means to prove theselves and their ideology correct. Trump likes good food such as Russian dressing, French fries, Hollandaise sauce, German potatoes, New Zealand Mussles etc. so they equate simplistic events with collusion. They have no concern for the truth.
So it’s ok for democrats to cheer McCain’s brain cancer, but Trump was supposed to stop Russian hackers from revealing Clinton and the DNC’s corruption and incompetence?
It’s all moot. If Tabby was a witch she would simply wrinkle her nose and disappear to some netherland with Uncle Arthur to keep her amused. If she can’t do that, shes proven she’s no witch and thus a trial is unnecessary. Problem solved.
mespo – we throw her in a pond and if she floats, she is a witch. If she sinks, she is human. The old methods are the best. 🙂
Hear, hear!
Certainly they’re definitive.
Awesome analogy. She should wiggle her nose and cast a get out of jail free spell proving at one and the same time she is guilty and has instincts of self preservation and couldn’t care less about such niceties as rule of law unless she can manipulate them to guarantee a win.
I still don’t understand why President Trump doesn’t simply declassify the information he has at his finger tips that would prove once and for all that this Russia Gate fiasco is a DNC/Hillary fabrication from start to finish. The DNC has already done enough damage to itself; it’s a dead party and there is no longer a need to subject everyone to the stench of rot. It may even manage some scattered future victories for neocons and neoliberals at he polls, but then it takes larger institutions time to for their final gasp. But the DNC is beyond bringing back, and both young and old know it.
Professor Turley is correct. Self pardons, family pardons, legal or not, would simply prolong the agony and dig a hole deeper that doesn’t seem necessary in the first place. I imagine the DNC is ecstatic at the prospect, but they are very much mistaken if they imagine such a Pyrrhic victory will help them long term though it can definitely hurt Trump in the meantime.
One place he may, and I stress may be vulnerable is business dealings with Russia and use of the office of POTUS to further enrich himself and his family. Trump may claim that wasn’t part of the original inquiry, but if he starts waiving self serving pardons around, it probably won’t matter.
Being President of a collapsing empire is bad business unless you are willing to play ball with the establishment. It’s no secret and Trump should have known it before actually catching the car he was chasing.
He was chasing a car full of rubles.
Squeeks, the answer is 1) Vamoose out of the jail cell and head for the hills at all possible haste.
History will show that Civil War II began with the AG Sessions recusal.
The man’s colossal narcissism, and only that, will determine what he does or does not do. Forget precedents or consequences. It shouldn’t take a psychologist, which I am, to understand that.
bawbtherevelator – you are not supposed to diagnose at a distance.
You’re a psychologist like I’m a Martian General. No psychologist diagnoses without seeing the patient, or conducting an assessment and, most assuredly, an ethical psychologist never discloses harmful diagnoses publicly. Your out on strikes.
Reblogged this on Right Ring and commented:
Panties on the Left are in a bunch. Something can be possible without being a good idea.
Some even posit that mereley mentioning or discussing the use of a pardon is an admission of guilt. Wow, so over the top. So he or the WH cannot mention a hypothetical but Congress and the left can make all these theoretic assertions about Trump?
Prof Turley frames issue and hsitory.
I think Trump has the power to pardon everyone, including himself. However, I do agree, it would be the first step towards impeachment.
Impeachment for what?
Impeachment for what?
For having the temerity to steal the throne away Clinton. The Left has no idea just how much this effort is damaging their brand. They aren’t investigating just Trump and associates. They are telling all that supported his election that they had no right to reject Clinton and all the corruption already exposed. They aren’t looking to impeach just Trump. They are looking to impeach any opposition to the progressive deep state. This is progressive suicide. MPP
Olly, I don’t think there is a “progressive” deep state.
There is a Neo-Liberal, HRC model, though.
Debbie Barnhart – the SC has said that impeachment is a political charge. A ‘high crime or misdemeanor’ is what ever they decide it is. They could decide the act of pardoning his staff was sufficient.
“Impeachment for what?”
For WINNING!
In “Slick Willy’s” Monicagate, there was PROBABLE CAUSE all over Miss Lewinsky’s dress as EVIDENCE and PERJURY in Bill’s LIE, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.”
“Fake News” as false accusations against President Trump include no evidence or probable cause.
Witch hunts are not real.
Witches are not real.
This is not forensics, this is war.
The purpose of the investigation IS to see if there is evidence or probable cause. Do you claim that it is utterly, categorically impossible that Trump and company colluded with, or had assistance from, Russians or Russian interests? If so, how do you know this? Just because Trump said so?
which states that the president “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” Although presidents have tended to wait for convictions before issuing pardons, Trump can do so in anticipation of federal charges. taken from the info.
How you gong to anticipate a federal charge when the so called offense in question is not a crime?
Stupid is as stupid does. either that or the PC Fictionary is the source for farkling I mean collusion.
So far there is no reason to use it. There still is not a shred of evidence produced for this thing called collusion and even if it’s true ‘collusion’ is not a crime.l
Better he just let’s the left continue looking stupid.
Ever hear of farkling. That’s a word like thingamajig we used in the police department when we couldn’t come up with anything else. The best was farkling while intoxicated That told the Jail Captain the dude was in the tank just to sleep it off and then would be released to his vehicle and keys. Assuming his wife hadn’t shown up and started the spousely thunder and lightning routine.
But farkling had a lot more to do an actual situation than this collusion nonsense.
Don’t tell Louise that she’s a good little party member and her little herad would farkle to pieces if she ever figured out seven months of her life had been wasted on a fairy tail.
Michael Aarethun – didn’t the word farkle come from Rowan & Martin’s Laugh-In?
I’m curious what it would take to constitute a “shred of evidence ” in your book. Maybe a signed directive from Putin, ordering interference? And nothing less?
In this preposterous, unprecedented and wholly unconstitutional
Election 2016 Redux Without Probable Cause,
President Trump needs to run a vigorous campaign.
Pence was elected.
Does anyone think Trump cares about whether it’s possible or proper or legal? He’ll do as he pleases and will then drag it through the courts for years just as he’s done all his life. He has no sense of morality.
Still farkling?
Obongo was sued by Professor Turley representing Congress, which represents the People, for unconstitutional “executive overreach” or abuse of the power of government against the People and usurpation of the power of the legislative branch – capital crimes if ever there were.
Combined with his current efforts to subvert the duly elected government of the United States by employing “holdovers” and Intel “assets” to conduct illegal, covert political operations such as leaking, “unmasking” and “surveillance,” Obongo’s crimes are serious indeed.
A traitor committing treason, who admits guilt by swearing to “fundamentally transform” the nation, must pay the maximum penalty, which, by the way, used to be Drawing and Quartering – oh my, how they could sell tickets to that one.