Libs of TikTok has been much in the news recently after a column by the Washington Post’s Taylor Lorenz and a suspension by Twitter. Lorenz was on CNN’s “Reliable Sources” on which Brian Stelter praises her writing and said that “I can’t wait to see what you’re working on next.”
However, it was one of the key justifications for the piece that stood out in the interview. Lorenz said that Washington Post targeted the host because she might be a foreigner. Since the Russian collusion stories, the media has been whipping up a fear of how “foreigners” are secretly influencing our society, politics, and culture. It increasingly seems like “They might be foreigners” is now the rallying cry for the left to justify every excess.
The Post column ran around the same time that Twitter moved against the Libs of TikTok. The suspension was particularly bizarre because the site was accused of “hateful conduct” due to its re-posting of liberals talking about themselves. Notably, there are many sites that watch and repost videos of evangelical ministers and conservative figures for use on liberal sites. That includes “Right Wing Watch” run by the liberal People for the American Way.
Lorenz came under attack for joining liberal groups like Media Matters in targeting Libs of TikTok. Both Lorenz and these other groups admit that they went after the site because it was having an impact in the debate over alleged radical agendas in schools.
Many on the right objected that Lorenz just appeared on national television in an emotional interview on how “horrifying” and unfair it was to be targeted in the media. That led to critics objecting to her pursuit of the host of this site and publishing details on her work and identity:
Lorenz’s view is that the site is now so influential, the identity of the founder was legitimate news. However, the piece had classic elements of a hit job, particularly given the collateral actions taken by groups like Media Matters and Twitter.
Lorenz and the Washington Post joined in the characterization of the site as engaged in hate speech for re-posting views of these teachers. Lorenz told CNN that this is “an LGBTQ hate account that’s the whole goal is to get trans and LGBTQ people sort of excluded from public life and drive these very harmful narratives around trans people.”
However, Lorenz insisted that she and the Post were concerned that those damn foreigner might be behind the site:
“Well, it wasn’t — I would say it’s equally important describing the power that this account has,” she said. “I think it’s rare to see an account gain so much prominence so quickly and be shaping these narratives in such an effective way, especially against trans people. So, I was — I mean, my story was kind of long, but I really wanted to make the case like why this account mattered. And I think it’s incredibly important, you know, as someone that covers the influencer industry to know who is exerting influence in this way. I mean, for all we knew, this could have been a foreign actor, right, or someone — we just didn’t know.”
Of course, she obviously learned that there were not foreigner actors behind the site but still did the hit piece. However, the question is why it would have matter if the host was someone in another country who had the same objections to such alleged radical agendas in schools.
There is a growing xenophobic element to such reporting that harkens back to far right groups in the 1950s. It is particularly striking in someone who covers “influencers,” a group of people on social media that is notably transnational in scope. Social media has erased national borders with many of the most influential figures coming from outside of the country. Likewise, many political movements are transnational with NGOs and civil liberties groups working across borders.
Notably, the Oxford English Dictionary says that “xenophobia” first appeared in a London weekly in 1909 when German and Italian archaeologists did not like the views of a French historian and geographer that contradicted their own conclusions on ancient Rome. They attacked the viewpoints of Paul Frédéric Gauckler on the basis that he was a foreigner.
The Washington Post itself has denounced such xenophobic “fear-mongering” arguments, though tying it to the right and Trump.
Notably, Stelter (who has been a voice for censorship to combat disinformation) did not ask why the Post did not look into possible foreigners lurking behind other influential sites from the left. He simply accepted the old saw that “they might be foreigners” to justify targeting a conservative site as if Lorenz just happened to light upon Libs of TikTok.
Lorenz was unchallenged in explaining:
“You know, attention whether it’s YouTube account or Instagram or TikTok or Twitter, and I think we need to, you know, take a step back and make sure we know who we’re getting our news from, make sure that things are framed correctly and not just buy into things that, you know, feed into our — the point of views that we already have, if that makes sense.”
It might make a little more “sense” if the Post targets sites with equal vigor on the left to see if there were any foreigners hiding in the shadows trying to “frame” our discussions or “feed into our …point of views.” Once again, however, the focus on the nationality of such influencers raises serious questions over the suspicion or vilification of influencers because they are not Americans. We live in a global marketplace of ideas and, yes, influences. Indeed, this blog often comments on attacks on free speech or other rights in foreign countries. Indeed, many LGBT advocates (including critics of Libs of TikToc) are foreign citizens but their views are not diminished by their nationality.
There was another interesting part of the interview when Lorenz attacked the host for deleting tweets:
“you know, case in point, this woman deleted thousands of tweets the day my article came out because she realized that she was going to be under increased scrutiny and that she could get — that people are really going to start looking at her account.”
Lorenz has been accused of locking her account to prevent access in the past. Most recently, there was a controversy that thousands of old tweets by Lorenz have been removed from the archives accessible by the WayBack Machine (though there is no response on whether Lorenz requested such removal).
Here is the interview:
I’d be interested in Turley’s view of the argument that Florida’s removal of special treatment for Disney was unconstitutional retaliation burdening 1st amendment rights. Anyone have informed views on this?
Dan, you are the attorney, so you have a better grasp than most, even though this might not be your specific field. Nothing has been taken away from Disney that all other businesses operate under. It will continue to operate under customary laws. Right now, it seems that the case would revolve around the right of a politician to punish a company because the company has political disagreements with him. But DeSantis appears to be representing the majority of Floridians. Other issues are bound to arise when the attornies view the initial documents granting them a virtual kingdom along with Florida’s Constitution and its laws.
The House of the Mouse has more to fear than just this, as it is a virtual inland island in the middle of nowhere except the Orlando area, which prospered because of Disney. Disney depends on a lot under state control, such as the highways, water systems, electric grid etc. The state has always done things to enhance Disney. Will the state be so happy to offer so much help in the future?
I hope DeSantis wins this battle.
Alan, because Disney’s special district is going away, residents in 2 counties could see their taxes rise by up to 20%. Do you think they’ll be pleased with DeSantis?
My taxes went up substantially because of Trump’s tax legislation. I thought it proper that less affluent people not subsidize my property taxes. I even sent Trump’s campaign money. Conservatives and libertarians have principles, something Democrats frequently lack, so a few might stray from DeSantis when the bill hits their pocketbook. However, families in Florida are getting sick of how their children are being treated. Politically, it will likely be to his benefit.
Take a look at Trump supporters and how loyal they are to him. You don’t see such loyalty among Democrats except maybe those who supported Sanders.
The operative word is COULD. They could see their taxes go down too. The media hysteria is designed to help Disney.
Clearly the District will have to be reestablished and there are a few ways of keeping the tax burden concentrated on the property owners in Reedy Creek.
It is in Disney’s best interest to make sure there is not need to economize on public services within the boundaries of the District
Just a quick edit
“The operative word is COULD. They could see their taxes go down too. The media hysteria is designed to
help Disney.hurt Republicans”I don’t know how the structure of the special district for Disney actually works but I can assume that they take care of all the infrastructure etc within the district in exchange for not paying into the tax base. By removing the special district status Disney will now become subject to property taxes based on the value of their property, just like any other landowner. This would have the effect of increasing the taxes paid to the town/city that are in the boundary. It may actually end up being more of a benefit to the city than everyone is surmising considering that the Disney property is worth a helluva lot of money in commercial real estate which is usually taxed at a higher rate than residential properties. So until everything washes out people are only using scare tactics by saying that residents taxes will increase.
No, that red herring was already taken care of. The original analysis that implied residents would see a tax increase failed to take into account the replacement income from taxing everything that was previously exempt.
It is near certain that adding a public government will decrease the efficiency of Disney special districts.
And that means added cost that someone will have to pay.
That is most likely to be Disney, and therefore Disney’s consumers.
Regardless, if those on the left are so enamoured of the anarcho-capitalist model of governance – because that is what the Disney Special District is, then lets move to it everywhere.
It is inherently more efficient.
S. Meyer,
The repeal of the special district will affect the operations of the company. It will not be able to operate at the high standards that it demands and taxpayers will be on the hook for maintaining the company’s massive infrastructure.
Furthermore, the law the republican legislature passed is in direct violation of the 1st amendment. The whole reason for the repeal of the special status is because the governor was upset that Disney criticized the “don’t say gay” bill. Republicans punished Disney for having a different point of view.
Svelaz, you generally talk without any knowledge like you are doing now. The best guess is that Disney will be hurt financially, or they would have voluntarily made this happen earlier. I am not going to do a lot of speculation without the facts. I leave that type of inanity in your hands.
As I have already said, I don’t know the legalities. I leave that in the hands of those more capable of analyzing the law. While I see the possibility of problems for Florida, I don’t see the First Amendment violations. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to make the case. You are not that person. When you are asked questions about what you say by many different people, you cannot answer them.
I thought Disney was foolish for becoming political, but they have been doing it more and more, so I am happy DeSantis did what he did. I don’t have the prejudices a lot on the left seem to have, so I do not need to virtue signal. I don’t care what sex anyone calls themselves or what race they are. What matters to me are the people and their ideas.
I do not like the abridgment of parental rights over their children. The state is a much worse proxy parent. I don’t want teachers who overstep their boundaries and don’t recognize that their skills do not translate well into defacto parents. Whereas, when most of us were young, today’s teaching profession (IMO) is not as strong in the intellect department as a whole though not necessarily individually.
Overzealous teachers should not abridge parents’ rights over their children. Such teachers are a danger to our youth. Overzealous companies are likewise a danger and Disney represents one of the worst.
Twitter agreed to the Musk Buyout.
My guess is that some lawyer pointed out to them that if they don’t and the stock takes a dive – there could be massive shareholder lawsuits.
I point that out because it is relevant to ALL “woke” public corporations.
We have seen many businesses “go woke” and then quietly change their minds.
A public corporations first duty is to its shareholders. Its second duty is to its share holders, its 3rd …
Disney is damaging its brand. Disney produces childrens entertainment. Parents make the choices. Parents are not likely to want Disney pushing gender issues on kids. Even woke parents mostly prefer characters in childrens entertainment to NOT be pushing gender messages. Woke snowflakes have taken over the staff of myriads of big corporations. For sometime those in those businesses have kowtowed to their staff. But when it starts to obviously cost shareholder value – trouble is brewing.
If the corporation is public – even a majority of shareholders can not change the duty to make profits.
I strongly suspect this is why Musk is taking Twitter private – Private corporations can do whatever they please.
A business that has a narrowly defined market that is inherently woke to start – can “go woke”, but businesses like Coca Colla whose market is everyone can not piss off 10% of their consumers – because that harms shareholders.
There are reasons that big public business have tended to be apolitical.
Shareholders and employees can Donate as they please.
Often when you hear that AT&T or Goldamn is in bed with Democrats or republicans – that really means that the company provided means for employees to contribute to each party – and most employees picked one party.
S. Meyer,
What the governor and the Republican legislators in Florida did WAS a violation of the 1st amendment.
Punishing Disney because they had a different political view is unconstitutional. Disney has the right to freedom of speech just like everyone else.
DeSantis already made it abundantly clear that Disney is being punished because it disagrees with the governor on his anti- LGBTQ law.
“ I do not like the abridgment of parental rights over their children.”
So you agree with the parental rights of those parents of transgender children to seek the medical care they choose?
You seem to agree that criminalizing transgender treatment is a government infringement on parents’ rights over their children.
“WAS a violation of the 1st amendment.”
It might be a violation of Florida’s law or Florida’s Constitution. I don’t know, but can you show how it violates the First Amendment? The people of Florida didn’t like Disney’s attitude towards parents. Disney had its say, and through DeSantis, the people of Florida had their say. Are you looking to deny democracy to the people of Florida?
One might say this is not punishment but rather rectifying the problem that Disney had rights Universal was denied. The law’s timing creates a problem, but that is usual in politics.
Tell us what would justify this as a First Amendment case that should be brought to the Supreme Court and why this is the business of the Supreme Court of the United States? Don’t bore us with the inane answer that this is a First Amendment case. You have to prove the substance behind your hollow claims.
“So you agree with the parental rights of those parents of transgender children to seek the medical care they choose? ”
No. There is a lot of case law on what a parent can or cannot do when it comes to the health and safety of their children. You are reckless and ignorant on the topic.
“You seem to agree that criminalizing transgender treatment”
It is already criminal for physicians to harm knowingly. PC attitudes do not represent scientific knowledge, but listening to you argue on this blog tells me you have nearly zero scientific knowledge.
If a physician thinks an experimental surgery on the heart and lungs could improve lives, do you believe he should be free to do this on his patients?
The law was passed by the collective legislature. Going to be hard to get into the head of each of those members. All legislation is voted on by members that vote for a variety of motivating factors. So while some may have voiced an opinion about Disney’s foray into politics, that in no way cancels out their other reasons to vote in favor of overturning legislation passed back in the 60’s. There was most likely legislators that always wanted to reverse the special districts and get the whole state on the same playing field. Disney sticking the head up and getting shot, is on Disney.
You are not that sharp.
First arguing that FL should not kill the Special district – because there will be a cost – which is probably true – is advocating for anarcho-capitalism – that is really extreme right wing economics.
So you are saying that FL should be required to allow disney to operate under extreme right wing economics ?
You like the snow flakes at disney probably have never even thought that Disney running its own little government is anarcho-capitalism
So we have a bunch of marxists dependent on the most extreme right form of economics there is.
Regardless, it will be less efficient to have a public government for Disney properties.
That additional cost will be born by Disney.
Disney can up and leave FL – abandoning maybe 100B in assets. That is not likely.
Visitors to Disney world might be less happy – there may be all kinds of new taxes and service may get worse.
But the net negative on Florida will not likely be that large, the cost will be borne by Disney.
Florida will loose a small amount of Tourist revenue as Disney is less popular.
I thought you lefties said Corporations have no first amendment rights ?
Wasn’t that the left wing rant over Citizens United ?
Regardless, This is not government censorship.
No one is telling Disney it can not participate in FL politics, or speak as they please.
They are telling Disney that if they wish to misinform people about FL legislation, that there is no reason for FL to provide them special privileges.
You can not claim that Disney’s right to free speech was infringed on when what they have lost is not something they were entitled to.
A couple of hundred billion in government contracts have been redirected because Biden won the presidency.
How is this different ?
Sounds like they did the right thing; bring Disney back to an equal footing with every other company. There is no 1A issue though. The government has done nothing to stifle Disney’s “speech”.
Governments do not have rights, they have powers.
There is potentially an attentuated first amendment issue here. But even it is complex.
Saying “You attacked me politically and I am going to punish you by taking away your special priviledges so that you are like everyone else”
is probably legitimate government response to speech it does not like.
But the biggest constitutional issue is that of motive.
SCOTUS has been dancing arround this for a while.
Maybe this will get SCOTUS to close the circle and rule that MOTIVE is irrelevant to the analysis of individual rights or government powers.
We punish bad motives in government acts by voting people out.
The Courts sole job should be to address the constitutionality. A law is constitutional regardless of the allegedly bad motives of those passing it.
it is OBVIOUS that it is constitutional for FL to revoke Disneys special status if it did so to raise money.
An act of govenrment that is constitutional with a good motive must be constitutional with a bad one.
If the legislature passes a law making murder illegal and makes a big stink about doing so because black people commit more murders – is the law criminalizing murder constitutional ? Clearly the legislature had Bad Motives. But it is still obvious that a law criminalizing murder would be otherwise valid. Could FL of all states be forbidden to criminalize murder – because it had offered a clearly racist justification ?
We have addressed this issue at Scotus repeatedly.
The Trump immigration EO’s were attacked for bad motives – Trump won.
The Questions on the census were criticized for having a bad motive – Trump lost.
SCOTUS’s oppinion was actually stupid – they almost Begged the Commerce Sec to impliment the same regulation over with some new justification and the court would pretend to ignore the Remarks of the Commerce Sec the 2nd time around.
All that does is highlight why Scotus was wrong.
We get into the same thing with Gerrymandering. Nearly all state legislatures have political motives for the maps they create – GET OVER IT. The courts can not stop politicians from being political. They are their to adjudicate the constitutionality of a measure – not the political motives.
Trump’s impeachment was all about “motive” – is there anyone who thinks the president is barred from asking a foreign leader to investigate credible allegations of corruption ?
Biden is purportedly ranting in the halls of the whitehouse because AG Garland has not indicted Trump.
How is that different from what democrats impeached Trump over ?
We get into this a little with the stupid Totenberg decision.
There was no insurrection – that is the END of the issue. Fundimentally Totenburg is attempting to judge MTG’s motives.
Even if it was proveably false that that the election was stolen – which is clearly not factually established, it is STILL constitutional for a representative to oppose certifying the election.
Which just raises another legal and constitutional error of the left. If the law or constitution grants a power to government or legislators, that ALWAYS means they have atleast two LEGITIMATE choices. If congress is required to vote – then the act of voting Yea or Nay is legitimate – even if the law or other action taken is unconstitutional. Ir an act is constitutional – speaking to demand that act is also constitutional – even if you are wrong about the facts.
“But the biggest constitutional issue is that of motive.”
Excellent point, John. The courts are straying from their job description, and as you have pointed out, this creep creates more problems than it solves. We need a textualist or originalist interpretation of the Constitution and deal with its faults through the process of Amendment. Push the legislators to do their jobs.
Professor Turley sometimes mentions he favors the legislature more than the executive branch and seems to want the legislature to have the upper hand. I won’t take sides, but I wish he would say the same about the courts.
Daniel,
You’ll generally find better legal discussion at Volokh.
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/04/25/prof-michael-dorf-cornell-on-floridas-repeal-of-disneys-special-government-district/
Thank you for this reference, whichever Anonymous you are. The analogy to the permissibility of firing a high level political appointee for his speech seems relevant here.
SCOTUS has been dancing arround the issue of political motivation, it is possible this might tip them in the right direction.
Disney’s political action against FL is a very bad reason to pass a law eliminating Disney’s special status.
But Florida’s bad motives do not alter that unless we are going to go full anarchocapitalist we should not outsource government to special interests.
So Florida is doing a good thing for a bad reason.
The ONLY questions the courts should entertain – is whether FL’s law is constitutional or not.
We have touched on motives – with the endless parade of redistricting cases.
We dived deep into it with Trump’s immigration executive orders.
And the house tried to make political motivations the basis for removing Trump for office.
The courts should get over it – politicians are political. The motivation of those passing a law is a matter for voters.
Courts should stick to whether the law is constitutional.
There is an attenuated first amendment issue – but it is not direct.
If the courts toss the FL law – how is it that FL or any other state could pass a similar law ?
“So Florida is doing a good thing for a bad reason.”
That is a good way of putting things. The timing is what I question most, though one needs to ask why Disney has a leg up from the State of Florida, and Universal, in the same area, doesn’t?
ATS, thank you for letting me know that Volokh’s first thought was no different from my own where I worried about unconstitutionality based on “political disagreements.” Volokh said basically the same, “because it is in retaliation for Disney’s “political activity,” which was the initial thought of many.
The question arises, does the state of Florida have the right to remove the special district they created over 50 years ago? Does Universal Studios or Sea World, both in the same area, have the same rights as Disney? It makes one ask the question, why not? Therefore, as I said before, one cannot adequately assess the problem. One first needs to look at the initial documents, Florida’s Constitution and Florida’s laws. Though you answer questions and search only for superficial data that meet your ends, this will require far more than you or I have to offer. The people of Florida elected a legislature and a governor who speak on their behalf so that we will see.
I responded to Daniel not because I had any specific legal knowledge but rather because I am interested in this topic. I Posted this subject as an OT response the other day, hoping to hear different opinions about the House of the Mouse, but none were forthcoming, so I responded to Daniel, hoping more would follow. Alas, I got you, the one who defends the killing of Ashli Babbitt. You can’t say I didn’t try.
Idiot Bob Reich in a Newsweek op-ed just commented on Musk’s impeding purchase of Twitter. You guessed it. ” It might well upend democracy”
I have lost count. How many things are liberals now claiming ” Will be the end of democracy”? Can moron Max Boot be far behind? And who’s *ss will Stelter kiss first?
“Free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy, and Twitter is the digital town square where matters vital to the future of humanity are debated.” ~Elon Musk
The Left just lost.
Hear, hear!
_________
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
– American Founders and Framers
Hullbobby says:
“JeffSilberman says it is because of Fox and Trump that the Libs of TT say such crazy things.”
First, thanks for not mocking my name as some childishly do here. I appreciate that modicum of respect. Second, how many times must I repeat that I do NOT fault Turley for criticizing the MSM; rather, I condemn him for NEVER criticizing his employer, Newsmax or OAN.
I know of only one instance where he has criticized Hannity and Pirro for attending a Trump rally in 2018. If you can cite but one instance of Turley criticizing the advocacy journalism at Fox since his employment, I will keep my mouth shut.
You can’t because he hasn’t. Turley is a hypocrite. Turley points out the hypocrisy of the Left; likewise, I call him out. It’s just that simple.
The funniest thing about this is, Miss Lorenz is almost 40, employed by a major newspaper, a college graduate, being asked softball questions from a pathetic excuse of a reporter, and the best excuse she can come up with is “They might be foreigners”.
Let me take that back, the funniest thing about this is, progressives will hear her pathetic excuse and not only agree with it, but think it is intelligent.
no I take that back, the funniest thing about this is, if a reporter at the Daily Caller used the excuse “They might be foreigners” for anything they would be tarred and feathered as xenophobic.
Upon reflection, the funniest thing about this is…
progressives are a joke.
What may happen in the 2022 election cycle could be universal. There was a report most recently by ‘Physical Review Letters’ that, Two black holes united into one, the larger hole flung off the smaller hole at +/- 5 million kilometers per hour. The smaller hole could be synonymous with the Woke Culture of today’s Jesters’.
They Might Be Foreigners!
Breaking News: Elon Musk buys Twitter…And owns it
Users & stock holders can now punk for pesos in the ally ways of Juarez Mexico
And in other news…
NY AG Letitia James and Judge Arthur Engoron must be impeached, prosecuted and sued for egregious corruption, usurpation of power, abuse of power and malicious prosecution.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“New York Judge Holds Trump in Contempt, Fines Him $10,000 Per Day That He Refuses to Turn Over Documents to Crooked AG”
“New York Judge Arthur Engoron has held Donald Trump in contempt and ordered a fine of $10,000 per day that he refuses to turn over documents to New York Attorney General Letitia James. During a hearing on Monday, the judge considered James’ contempt request. ‘Mr. Trump, I know you take your business seriously, and I take mine seriously, I hereby hold you in civil contempt and fine you $10,000 a day,’ Engoron ruled.”
– Cassandra Fairbanks
https://twitter.com/i/status/1061397270527180800
“Libs of TikTok” is essentially a Google, Yahoo, Twitter, Washington Post, PBS, a search engine, an aggregator, a publisher, a broadcaster, but without the generous credit and special access afforded to those outfits.
“They might be foreigners!!!”
_______________________
They might be “citizens” with foreign parents with foreign allegiances!!!
Like Obama and Kamala who were the children of foreign citizens which precludes them from ever obtaining the constitutionally mandated status of “natural born citizen” in order to be eligible for the office of president or vice president.
What the —- happened to the judicial branch to cause it to be unable to read the U.S. Constitution?
Emanations from penumbras (twilight fringe), which, among other things, established the nominally “secular” Pro-Choice “ethical” religion (e.g. wicked solution); diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry), inequity, and exclusion; political congruence (“=”) and population-wide transgender conversion therapy; science through conflation of logical domains and liberal use of inferential logic.
What you said!
err….didn’t this hacks intel come from a cutout sponsored by German intelligencia?
I’m guessing Stelter conveniently omitted that fact and didn’t bother to ask her why she wasn’t transparent on the fact that SHE IS FOREIGN-SPONSORED PROPAGANDA
The left hates it when you use their own words about grooming children. Here’s a video of encouraging words for your little tykes. https://nypost.com/2021/05/29/dalton-parents-enraged-over-masturbation-videos-for-1st-graders/
Taylor Lorenz is a beautiful example of what is wrong with an entire generation and actually the nation at large right now. Crying over being called out when you are the attacker of people with less means than you is another new height of hypocrisy.
Lorenz punches down…I hate people that punch down.
The left hates it when their grooming is exposed. A Director at Disney gets 16 months in jail for Paedophilia and is then hired back by Disney to direct another film for children. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/04/confessions_of_a_disney_writer.html. Instead of condemning the acts of the groomers they condemn the messenger for uncovering who they are. These are hard facts to accept but they are what they are and we should not turn a blind eye because we might find it uncomfortable to see what’s happening. The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision. – Helen Keller
“ The suspension was particularly bizarre because the site was accused of “hateful conduct” due to its re-posting of liberals talking about themselves.”
It wasn’t just about re-posting of liberals talking about themselves. It also involved making false accusations and false claims which were used to harass teachers and others on the tik toks.
Right-leaning news such as Fox News and right-leaning pundits used the sites’s to stoke anger and rage toward the LGBTQ community.
Turley wasn’t telling the whole story about why Twitter suspended the account.
Lorenz provided a more accurate context showing why it did violate Twitter’s policies.
Conservative media got upset because they no longer have a source of misinformation to manipulate their rage-prone audience. Essentially twitter deprived Fox News and other right-wing media of the “age of rage” journalism that Turley finds detestable.
Hypocritically, Turley is engaging in it with this column by making a very loud statement in the title falsely insinuating that Lorenz is implying foreign actors are behind this site.
Svelaz, so using the teachers own words stating that they are grooming elementary school children is an attack on teachers. Somehow people who go on TikTok think that they will not be attacked. What wonderland do you live in. You just don’t want us to see liberal’s who are telling us who they really are. What’s missing? Liberals like yourself disavowing what your friends on TikTok are saying. We wait for your exclamation saying that these woke teachers positions on child grooming are not your positions. A glaring omission of your concern for the brainwashing of children. No surprise here.
Thinkitthrough,
“Svelaz, so using the teachers own words stating that they are grooming elementary school children is an attack on teachers.”
The teachers didn’t state they are grooming elementary school children in the link you provided. You inserted the “grooming” label yourself. What you are doing and what the story about the teacher at the Dalton private school is dealing with is exactly what Lorenz is talking about in her article. It’s the libs on tik tok site’s influence on setting the false narrative that people are “grooming” children. That’s why it was suspended for violating Twitter’s policies. It was not just about reposting tik toks of libs. It also involved making false claims and spreading misinformation that you are repeating here.
You are a prime example of what Lorenz is talking about.
Stop entertaining “trolls and juvenile posters”. They’re not here to add anything constructive to the conversation. They’re just agitators hoping someone will reply so they can continue their rant. Notice how the “trolls” always turn the subject to right-ring this or that or Fox News and Turley’s association with the network and call him a hypocrite. Ignore them.
“It wasn’t just about re-posting of liberals talking about themselves. It also involved making false accusations and false claims which were used to harass teachers and others on the tik toks.”
You sound weird. Since there was no editorializing, can you tell us how they did this? What false accusation did the video make?
Groomers gonna groom. Dems are hated by More Americans today than ever. Keep up the great work!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/23/la-hit-violent-crime-wave-organised-gangs-target-wealthy-areas/
“LA hit by violent crime wave as organised gangs target wealthy areas”
Police have identified at least 17 groups carrying out highly coordinated ‘follow-off’ robberies in affluent neighbourhoods
Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascon has come under increasing pressure over law and order, with his critics insisting his soft punishments are emboldening criminals.
Anonymous,
“Since there was no editorializing, can you tell us how they did this? What false accusation did the video make?” It’s not the video that is the issue. It’s the description of it. It falsely portrays what it is about.
Thinkitthrough, falsely claimed that the teachers stated in their own words that they were grooming elementary school kids when they didn’t state that at all. The whole point of making insinuations such as that is to portray a false narrative and therefore a false claim which is a violation of Twitter’s policies.
Thinkit only said what the teachers and others were telling the viewers they were doing.
Now I await a more forthright answer to my previous question. You say: “It’s the description of it. It falsely portrays what it is about.”
What description in the video do you object to?
Svelaz like the typical leftist, spewed emotional garbage without contemplating the meaning of his words, or how shallow his thought was.
Another criticism of his remarks is that when he claims the actual video and the description are at odds, and the description is a falsehood intended to cause harm a logical requirement for that to be true would be that LibsOfTikTok followers are all morons, do not watch the videos and just react to the descriptions.
Calling the now almost 1M LibsOfTikTok followers – thanks to Lorenz, all morons is the typical stupid leftwing remark.
I frequently insult leftwing posters here – when they post stupid things. But I long for the day that an intelligent left wing poster shows up prepared to have a real debate of issues. Often I am insulting – because I am disappointed. I honestly want to be challenged by good arguments from others. That is how minds are changed – atleast mine. It is also how I test my own views – do they hold up under critical examination.
This is what JS Mill meant when he said if all you know is your own side – you know little even of that.
I am sure there are some idiots in LibsOfTikTok followers – there are almost a million – one must be slow.
But Svelaz is implicitly arguing they are all Stupid. Claiming a million people are morons and were deceived by LibsOfTikTok is a stupid argument.
Svelaz also poorly argues that libsOfTikTok is wrong – because it intends to cause harm. It is actually true that LibsOfTikTok deliberately holds the videos it posts up to ridicule.
It is a logical error to conclude that is always wrong.
Most people – including on the left understand that ridiculing Putin for Genocide is RIGHT not wrong.
Far more people that Svelaz grasps also understand that Ridiculing left wing nuts for stupid and even criminal posts is RIGHT not wrong.
His central argument is that ridicule is always wrong – he should then read his own posts and die of shame.
More of Turley’s pandering and half-truths while he ignores the BIG political stories: Trump was held in contempt by a NY judge for refusing to comply with subpoenas. And, more and more evidence is adduced each and every day that proves that Jan 6th wasn’t a peaceful protest that got out of control: it was a planned insurrection in which members of Congress, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, were active participants.
Natacha,
Turley ignores a NY Judge holding Trump in contempt because he likely does not take issue with it. Turley is not going to risk alienating his employer’s followers by approving of actions taken against Trump with which he does not disagree. Why? Only when he disapproves of something said or done to Trump will Turley speak out in order to ingratiate himself to Fox. Fox gets emails from its audience approving or disapproving of Turley’s views. Turley must be cognizant of the general tide of opinion about his rhetoric lest he jeopardizes his utility to Fox’s narratives. There have been many times where Turley has denounced Trump, but why should he look for trouble unless his silence in the face of Trump’s conduct would be intolerable.
Turley has made his opinion known by calling Trump a “carnival snake charmer.” And knowing Turley as we do, were he asked whether he would take back those words, he undoubtedly would say “I do not.” Turley rarely, if ever, has reversed a position. He prides himself on his principled consistency.
Are you Counsellor Troi ? Are you tellepathic ?
Why do you beleive you know what other people think ?
You have enough problem with facts.
What is a counselor troi?
Are you a child ?
Every heard of Star Trek ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deanna_Troi
I grew out of Star Trek after the original series.
The left hates it when their idiocy is exposed by the likes of Lib of TikTock. They hate it when it’s found out that the grooming of children is occurring. They hate it when it’s found out that CRT is being taught in elementary schools. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dge2a30qi05brxw/AADZE5YRB-DViEZ-eiLQ1yoYa/By%20the%20end%20of%20Grade%202?dl=0&preview=3Rs-NJ_PinkBluePurple.pdf&subfolder_nav_tracking=1. They hate it when what they stand for is being exposed. Whenever someone on the left is telling you that something isn’t happening an instant scepticism on your part should prevail.
For what it’s worth:
An early feminist, I don’t recall her name right now, made a very controversial statement which got quite a bit of ‘airplay’ at the time.
“All sex is rape” was her statement.
If I were to locate a video or a transcript of her saying that, and Post it on a social media platform, I’m very curious to know how it would be reacted to given that it’s not my statement.
Turley must be editing the article after publishing it. Just below is the original statement,
It might more a little more “sense” if the Post targets sites with equal vigor on the left to see if there were any foreigners hiding in the shadows trying to “frame” our discussions or “feed into our …point of views.”
the fixed one,
“ It might make a little more “sense” if the Post targets sites with equal vigor on the left to see if there were any foreigners hiding in the shadows trying to “frame” our discussions or “feed into our …point of views.”
Regardless, it’s hugely ironic that Turley wonders why the post doesn’t target left-leaning sites with “equal vigor” when he doesn’t target right-leaning sites with equal vigor. Hypocrisy perhaps?
Turley is as usual deliberately mischaracterizing the issue by focusing on the “foreigner” claim.
Lorenz was not claiming it was a foreigner behind the site. She just mused that it could be, just as Tucker Carlson does all the time.
It’s funny that Turley doesn’t post the link to Lorenz’s article which explains in greater detail why Libsoftiktok was suspended from Twitter. It wasn’t about satire it was deliberately targeted toward the LGBTQ community posting false claims and conservative bigots and conspiracy theory nuts used it to harass and intimidate teachers and individuals depicted on the site. That was an obvious violation of twitter’s policies.
You are correct – there is no obligation to target left and right equally.
History is rife with conflicts. It is NEVER true that both sides are equally right or wrong.
Nor is it ever true that one side is perfectly right and the other wrong.
As an example – Ukraine was far from a perfect country. Some of Putin’s criticisms are atleast partly true.
But NONE justified invasion.
The right in this country has a variety of problems. But it is not even close to the a consequential threat today.
The consequential problems in this country today are caused by the left.
We are not required to point out problems equally – and failing to do so is not hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy is where we go after others for problems that we ignore in others.
The right is not engaged in consequential efforts to muzzle free speech. The left is.
John B. Say,
“ We are not required to point out problems equally – and failing to do so is not hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy is where we go after others for problems that we ignore in others.”
But Turley did just that. He went after others by criticizing the Washington Post for not doing something that Turley is just as guilty of. That’s the very definition of hypocrisy.
“ It might make a little more “sense” if the Post targets sites with equal vigor on the left to see if there were any foreigners hiding in the shadows trying to “frame” our discussions or “feed into our …point of views.”
He’s critical of the fact that the Washington Post is only focusing on the right-wing site and that it would make sense if they gave equal emphasis on left-leaning sites. The hypocrisy lies in the fact that Turley is just as guilty of not giving “equal vigor” to scrutinizing right-wing sites. Which he does not.
“ The right is not engaged in consequential efforts to muzzle free speech. The left is.”
That’s false. The right is currently engaged in large efforts to muzzle free speech. Book bans and legislate what you can and cannot discuss regarding sex, race because it might make others uncomfortable.
What about the Florida governor DeSantis and Republican legislators punishing Disney because they disagreed with the Governor? That is an actual violation of Disney’s right to free speech. They punished a company because they were critical of the governor’s anti-LGBTQ views.
“The hypocrisy lies in the fact that Turley is just as guilty of not giving “equal vigor” to scrutinizing right-wing sites. Which he does not.”
Turley’s issue is freedom of speech. He is not scrutinizing right or left-wing sites except where speech is substantially involved. Do you think Turley’s job is to monitor websites where speech is not a significant issue?
Anonymous,
“ Turley’s issue is freedom of speech. He is not scrutinizing right or left-wing sites except where speech is substantially involved. Do you think Turley’s job is to monitor websites where speech is not a significant issue?”
No, the Turley issue is then just freedom of speech. He’s also critical of what left-leaning media doesn’t address. This is still hypocritical because Turley often doesn’t address the same issues in right-leaning media.
*then= not just.
Stop entertaining the “trolls and juvenile posters”. Do not reply to them. Ignore them. They just want to agitate others. They never add anything constructive to the blog.
Sergeant Major, there are no intelligent people on this blog able to defend the left. The best the left has to offer are shallow hypocrites. If intelligent leftists appeared, the “juvenile posters” would be discarded and gradually melt away. Since leftists are by nature afraid of open debate, you will have to put up with the juveniles.
There is no comparison between Tucker Carlson and Lorenz.
Lorenz beats up little people, and then cry’s crocodile tears when others criticize here.
Tucker Carlson attacks people more than capable of defending themselves – like Lorenz.
Further unlike Lorenz – Carlson and his family were actually attacked by angry leftist mobs when people like Lorenz targeted him.
He did not whine or whimper about having PTSD. He got angry, and he moved, and he now spends money on security.
“ There is no comparison between Tucker Carlson and Lorenz.”
I disagree. Tucker Carlson engages in the same type of musing that leads others into a false assumptions about any given issue. Lorenz was not insinuating that a foreign actor was behind the site. Turley is falsely depicting Lorenz wondering about a possibility by cherry-picking the context of her statements. He cited only the phrase about a foreign actor without any context in which it was stated.
“ Lorenz beats up little people, and then cry’s crocodile tears when others criticize here.”
That’s false. Lorenz exposed a cowardly bigot and the right is upset that they no longer have a ready source of misinformation to exploit.
Libs of TickTok did not “target” anyone. It did not editorialize. It reposted content people published themselves.
Libs of TikTock did not cast some specific group in a bad way – those who looked like fools – did that to themselves.
If there were “False claims” – that would be the people Libs of TikTok reposted making false claims about themselves.
If Libs of TikTok deliberately focused on the stupid things that people on the left said or that LGBT people said – so what ?
They are free to do so.
Libs of TikTok is trivial to defuse – don’t publish yourself saying stupid things.
Twitter can have whatever policies that it wants.
All that Cancelling Tibs of TikTok accomplishes is making it all the more clear that Twitter is not a platform for free speech.
It is heavily engaged in political censorship.
The right seems to think that Elon Musk is trying to ride in and save them like a white night.
While I am sure Musk likes that image. The FACT is Musk’s effort to buy Twitter is a good business move.
Twitter has damaged its brand. It has diminished its own value. Without the blatant political censorship Twitter is likely worth nearly twice its current share price. Musk could make billions cleaning it up.
“If Libs of TikTok deliberately focused on the stupid things that people on the left said or that LGBT people said – so what?
They are free to do so.”
It’s not merely stupid things people on the left say or what LGBT people say. It’s the description accompanying the posts that falsely portray the videos lending a false narrative that others perpetuate and ultimately cause harm. Lorenz is correct in her reporting that the goal of the site is to spread hate and false claims about the videos used on the site. It’s the accompanying comments and retweets that are causing the problem. Not the videos themselves.
Bzzt, wrong.
If you actually beleive that another persons words have harmed you – sue them for defamation.
Lets assume that you are correct and the goal of the site is to “spread hate”.
You seem to think that automatically is evil.
Is it OK to spread hate of Hitler ?
Half the world is spreading hate of Putin right now.
You are running face first into the brick wall that accompanies ALL censorship – “Who Decides ?”
Who decides who we are allowed to “hate” or merely dislike or poke fun at ?
Much of what is said by the left here about Fox and Tucker Carlson is Hate Speech.
But that is OK with you – because you have decided that TC and Fox deserve to be hated.
Need I remind you that left wing nuts have not always had the power they currently have, and are unlikely to have it in the future.
Soon enough it will be Elon Musk deciding what is “hate speech” on Twitter. Why is he less qualified than whoever is doing it now ?
What if in the Future Alex Jones gets to decide what is hate speech and what is not.
Lest you forget historically it is the RIGHT that is most heavily involved in censorship.
The era of free speech is only a few centuries old – and it was an absolute requirement for the modern left to even exist.
Pissing on it is a very stupid idea.
With specific respect to LibsOfTickTok – what exactly is wrong with exposing perverts who are teaching toddlers to masturbate ?
That is something you want to defend ?
If you do not want Conservatives to reframe the modern LGBTQ…. Debate as about “Groomers” – then do not defend people who are sexualizing children.
I would note that some of what LibsofTikTok posts is those on the left discussing what is likely criminal acts in all 50 states.
Most of us “hate” crime. Most adults likely hate people who sexualize children.
No, I am pretty sure that a kindergarten teacher discussing showing her students how to masturbate is a real problem – no editorial comments necessary.
I am pretty sure that Taylor Lorenz is not right about almost anything.
She is an incredibly hypocritical crybully – the fact that you have any regard for her speaks poorly of your judgement.
If you are a teacher – you should absolutely expect that if you post stupid or offensive things about how you are teaching other peoples children – that you are going to LEGITIMATELY be “hated” by and awful large number of students.
The culture wars are over – or at least we all thought they were. Nearly the entire right has agreed to keep their views on the morality of the conduct of the panoply of abnormal sexuality confined to their churches. Whatever your sexual predilections – you are entitled to the same rights as others.
What you are NOT allowed to do is attempt to impose them on children. Straight white males that talk about sex with kinder-gardeners or that rub their genitalia through they cloths are called pedophiles and are arrested if caught. There is no special right for pink haired transsexuals.
Regardless, you have reopened the culture wars on ground you are going to get obliterated on.
Nearly every left parent on the planet says they do not care if their child is gay or trans, or …. THEY ARE LYING.
Absolutely they will love their children anyway and hope for their happiness – if my child was a murderer I would still love them,
We do not know whether homosexuality is a choice – the left pretty much bans research into the subject. Politically it is necessary that it BOTH is a choice or innate – depending on the moment or the issue. The same is true of trans.
But in the off chance it is a choice rather than innate – we would greatly prefer other were not pushing our children into a fringe lifestyle choice in Kindergarden.
And no matter what we do not want ANYONE sexualizing our children.
As a Parent – I would be headed for jail if I talked about or did what many of these teachers are doing.
Attacking this as “hate speech” – is a mistake by those of you on the left.
The answer is easy – “So What ?” – there are things and people deserving of hatred.
Those who sexualize our children among them.
All you are accomplishing is opening peoples eyes to the fact that calling something “hate speech” does not inherently make it bad.
Or maybe LibsOfTikTok should just Dox these posters and report them to local police.
10 years in jail and a lifetime on the sexual predators list is alot worse that being jeered at by conservatives.
Absolutely LibsOfTikTok greatly broadens the exposure of these videos to others.
And guess what ? pretty much all of LibsofTikTok’s followers need no help no editorializing to understand these videos.
You do not seem to understand speech very well.
When MSNBC accuses Putin of engaging in Genocide – is that Hate speech ?
It is near certain MSNBC views will hate Putin even more after hearing he is genocidal.
You are trying to frame hatred as a black and white – always wrong.
But you engage in hate speech and hatred of others all the time.
I am not sure I would call libsoftiktok hate speech.
But I have no problem with exposing people who publicly admit to sexualizing children to scorn and derision.
You fawned over Taylor Lorenz – but hate speech is her stock and trade. It is what she makes a living at.
The difference between libsoftiktok and taylor lorenze is solely who they spew hatred at.
How is it that you spread “false claims” about the videos shared ?
Do you think no one watches them ?
Watching them is the entire point.
If I post a tweet saying – Here is Biden stumbling incoherently, and I attach a clip of one of the few instances Biden manages to leave a podium without looking old and terrified
Is that going to cause actual harm ?
The only effect of such a post would be for people to unfollow me.
No one (atleast not outside the left) is interested in blatant attempts to deceive.
You claim that LibsOfTikTok is to spread hate and false claims about the videos.
That is total nonsense.
LibsOfTikTok is successful because it ACCURATELY exposes the left to ridicule.
No one would pay attention to it if it did not.
I have addressed your stupid remarks in about half a dozen different ways.
I would suggest the same thing to you that I would to those featured in LibsOfTikTok.
If you do not want ridiculed. If you do not want exposed as a hypocrit, If you do not want your shallow and poor quality thinking exposed.
THINK before hitting POST.
You know, I can take anyone seriously who uses “you know” and “like why” in a professional capacity. I tend to not get my opinions from someone with the vocabulary and intellectual capacity of a 14 year old girl.
You’re small-minded or simply making excuses for being unable to offer a rebuttal.
“. . . who uses ‘you know’ and ‘like why’ . . .”
It’s a symptom of what she is: anti-intellectual.
So, an individual posts a compilation of videos put out freely on a public platform, with zero editing, zero editorializing, no usage of chyrons, and the entity to be demonized as anti – anything is the person putting out the compilation? Not those who freely offered up their own words? This is absolute insanity!!
Can’t figure out who is the bigger A**hole. Stelter or Lorenz. Probably Lorenz as she has shown typical liberal hypocrisy with her “tearful” PTSD Bull**it !
And the ” Foreign” component is an insult to anyone with an I.Q over room temperature. I guess that gives Stelter an excuse not to be insulted. Afterall he is not sure if cnn+ was a failure.
$ 300 Million investment and on the air for less than 30 days. I guess the Titanic was a successful voyage also.
As the father of a 10-year old girl in 4th grade in a public school I found it informative to see the lunacy that is put on line by some teachers. How putting these publicly available videos together into compilations is a violation of Twitter rules justifying suppression is puzzling.