Below is my column in The Hill on the controversial role played by the ABC moderators in the presidential debate. Three false claims in the debate continue to be repeated in what is now our post-truth political environment. (ABC later challenged another claim by Harris on the deployment of U.S. troops).
Here is the column:
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
That famous line from Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.) remains a virtual mantra for politicians and pundits. Yet, judging from the presidential debate between former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris, we have officially entered the post-truth political era.
ABC News has been widely criticized for the bias of the two moderators Linsey Davis and David Muir. Even liberal outlets acknowledged that the two journalists seemed inclined to “fact check” only Trump. In the meantime, they allowed clearly false statements from Harris to go unchallenged.
Three of the unchecked claims are being widely disseminated by supporters, including some in the media. Here are three legal “facts” that are being repeated despite being clearly untrue.
“Crime is down under the Biden-Harris administration.“
One of the most notable slap downs by ABC followed Trump commenting that crime rates have drastically risen during the Biden-Harris administration. Muir immediately balked and declared: “As you know, the FBI says overall violent crime is coming down in this country.”
Harris and her allies have been repeating the claim by ABC. But the actual statistics show that Trump was right. The Justice Department’s released survey found that, under the Biden administration, there has been a significant increase in crime. Violent crime was up 37 percent from 2020 to 2023, rape is up 42 percent, robbery is up 63 percent and stranger violence is up 61 percent. Other reports had shown startling increases such as a doubling of carjackings in D.C. in 2023.
“Harris has not supported transgender operations for undocumented migrants.”
Some of the greatest mocking in the media concerned Trump’s statement that Harris has supported transgender conversion treatment for undocumented persons. New Yorker staff writer Susan Glasser immediately wrote “What the hell was he talking about? No one knows, which was, of course, exactly Harris’s point.”
On CNN, Wolf Blitzer declared how “outlandish” it was for Trump to make such a claim.
But it’s true.
In 2019, Harris told the ACLU that she not only supported such operations but actively worked for at least one such procedure to take place. When it was reported by Andrew Kaczynski on CNN, host Erin Burnett was gobsmacked by the notion of taxpayer-funded gender transition surgeries for detained migrants. “She actually supported that?” Burnett exclaimed.
Even the New York Times later admitted that the “wildest sounding attack line” from Trump was “basically true.”
Harris does not support the right to abortion in the final three months of a pregnancy.
Trump also hit Harris on her no-limits position on abortion rights, allowing women the right to abort a baby up to the moment of birth. Trump said Harris supports laws allowing abortions in “the seventh month, the eighth month, [and] the ninth month,” to which Harris retorted: “C’mon,” “no,” and “that’s not true.”
The hosts again said that Trump was making up his criticism of late-term abortions, including the risk of babies being born but allowed to die.
But in fact, many states, including Minnesota under Gov. Tim Walz (D), protect the right of a woman to abort a baby into the ninth month. While it is often said that this is left to the mother and her doctor, the law gives the decision to the mother.
Late-term abortions are relatively rare, but they do occur. A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report estimated in 2019 that about 4,882 abortions were performed that year at least 21 weeks or later into pregnancy.
More than a dozen states, in fact, allow on-demand abortions after a baby is viable and can even survive outside of the womb. Nine of those states permit abortions throughout the entirety of pregnancy. Harris has supported these state laws and certainly did not answer the question on what limits she would support, other than saying that she supports Roe v. Wade.
Clearly, many late-term abortions occur to protect the life of the mother. However, you can have (as both Trump and Harris support) exceptions to protect the life of the mother without allowing abortions up to the moment of birth.
To be sure, Trump did not help himself with his wilder claims. These included debunked accounts of Haitian migrants eating people’s pets in Ohio, which Ohio’s Republican governor, Mike Dewine, has denied.
The issue is not fact-checking, but the failure to do so equally and accurately. ABC actually disseminated false information under the mantle of fact-checking, and that’s a real problem.
Moderator Linsey Davis admitted later that ABC did not want a repeat of what had happened in the last debate, wherein Trump was given free rein and the moderators limited themselves to asking questions and enforcing time limits. CNN was praised in that debate across the political spectrum for being even-handed.
What is most striking about this election is that none of this seems to matter. Indeed, even the debate did not matter. While Trump can legitimately object to a three-against-one debate format, Harris’s victory was clearly not dependent on bad calls by the refs. However, there has been little overall movement in the polls, even though 67 million people were watching.
The era of post-truth politics is evident in Harris repeating false claims about Trump’s support for “Project 2025” and debunked claims regarding his comments about an extreme-right Charlottesville rally in 2017. Leading Democrats continue to make these false claims, in some cases despite knowing that they are false.
On the other side, Trump is making promises he has to know can never be fulfilled. For example, he has pledged to make flag-burning a federal crime with a penalty of two years’ incarceration. The Supreme Court, including conservatives like the late Justice Antonin Scalia, has ruled that flag burning is protected speech under the First Amendment. Neither a president nor Congress can change the meaning of the Constitution without amending it.
With the help of the media, we have reduced our election to a political Slurpee. It’s all sugar rush and no nutritional value. We now have pundits supporting the idea of no further debates and even arguing that Harris shouldn’t give any interviews because it’s too risky.
Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) explained that Harris should avoid one-on-one media interviews because “sometimes, you drill down into a question until there’s a word that’s uttered that can be used in a negative way.” I suppose, as president, she will need to insist on meeting foreign leaders only in CNN town hall events.
If you do not say anything, there are no facts to check. The election then becomes a vote over whether you are for or against “joy.”
What is clear from the ABC debate is that citizens are on their own in the election to find actual facts and substance in the super-sized Slurpee of the 2024 election.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. He is the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage” (Simon & Schuster).
Professor, this is probably one of your best and most important columns. As soon as we all saw how ABC would only fact check Trump and not Harris, we all knew the debate was rigged. Since then, ABC has gone on to prove, even brag, it was rigged. Had the debate take place like on CNN with their shockingly fair and balanced moderation, would anyone be claiming Harris won? Even my Democrat sister said it was “clearly staged against Trump.”
* Haven’t you ever known anyone who’ll just lie to your face? They’re just liars, children. It’s what they do.
Reminds me of the old saying in government about management… “If their lips are moving, their lying.”
When Harris was asked, “when it comes to the economy do you believe Americans are better off than they were four years ago”, she diverted to her having grown up as a “middle class kid” and how she relates to middle class concerns. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When she was asked why the Biden Administration kept in place the Trump Administration’s tariffs that she now says have made and will make the economy worse, she launched into a continued litany of talking points without any explanation of exactly how bad Trump’s economic policy would be for the economy. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When asked why the Biden Administration has only recently acted upon illegal border crossings and would she have done anything differently from what President Biden failed to do previously, she diverted to a long monologue inviting people to attend one of Trump’s rallies “to see how people leave early out of exhaustion and boredom.” She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When asked about the Biden Administration’s weaponization of the Department of Justice, she evaded and spoke only of how Trump might weaponize the same. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When asked about changes from once supporting a ban on fracking to now she doesn’t, from once supporting a federal buy back of firearms to now she doesn’t, and from once supporting decriminalizing border crossings to now she doesn’t, she simply evaded the fact of her having flip flopped on such issues and went on a diatribe touting her values while denigrating Trump’s. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When asked how she would “break through the ceasefire stalemate between Hamas and Israel, she put the responsibility entirely on Israel to unilaterally stop the killing, declare a ceasefire, and accept a two-state solution for peace. She said nothing about the fact that Iranian supported Hamas is uncompromisingly vowed to the total annihilation of Israel regardless of any ceasefire or two-state solution. She would not say why Hamas’ Gaza dictatorship is itself responsible for innocent Palestinian deaths. She never completely answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question for her to denounce Hamas’ practices and ultimate intentions.
When asked if she had ever met with Putin like she did with Zelensky to discuss ending the Ukrainian War, she spoke only of meeting with Zelensky before immediately moving on to disparage Trump as a leader in the world. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
When asked if she had any responsibility for the failure of the Afghanistan withdrawal, she said only that she agreed with the decision to withdraw and said nothing about how poorly the logistical planning of the withdrawal was conceived. Beyond that she had nothing to add other than Trump’s one attempt to negotiate directly with the Taliban to stop the sniper killing of American soldiers as somehow indicative of someone who does not appreciate the ways of American diplomacy and who fails as a commander in chief. She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.
The moderators might have also asked her about the $80 billion of American military equipment left behind for the Taliban to now proudly parade as their own, as well as the Gold Star family members of the 13 soldiers killed in the ill-thought withdrawal who were never consoled by either Biden or Harris. They might have asked, but they didn’t. And so, ends that discussion about failures of commanders in chief.
If ABC wanted Harris not to answer the moderators’ questions, then ABC was the clear winner of the debate. Had there been an ABC/Harris Team game plan going into the debate it would have been letting Harris know its moderators would ask a few tough questions, but do not answer them. Instead, simply pivot to blaming Trump for her last four years.
Ron A. Hoffman,
Thank you for that great comment and thank you for pointing out all those additional facts of what actually happened on that night.
OT, last Thursday, the Biden admin added more tariffs to the one’s they kept from the Trump admin.
“She never answered the question, and the moderator never returned to the question.” x nn
And yet evidently Turley considers Harris the victor in the debate: “Harris’s victory was clearly not dependent on bad calls by the refs.”
Really? I take Turley seriously when he discusses points of law. Otherwise, it is a VERY mixed bag
Not a single mention in the MSM (or this article) of the ear buds masquerading as earrings on the incompetent Harris. She won that debate because she was repeating word-for-word what her handlers were telling her. In a fair debate with anyone she would flounder and come off as the incompetent airhead that she is.
Looking at Harris’s lies about Trump loving neo-Nazis, wanting women to die by denying them medically necessary abortions, etc and the ABC “moderators” eagerly accepting them and “fact checking” Trump as a liar when he denied them, it should not surprise anybody that we’re now into a period where it is almost an assassination attempt each month where Trump is concerned. We don’t know how many the SS learned about ahead of time and intervened before an actual attempt happened.
This morning another news channel talking head is saying “Trump should turn down his tone to prevent this”. Sounds familiar.
After the July attempt left Trump wounded, Biden eventually pontificated the political vitriol and rhetoric must be turned down on both sides. Trump in particular should “turn down his tone”! The media nodded their heads up and down in agreement.
And then within days, Biden and Harris joined with their news media propagandists to renew and double down on the rhetoric that Trump was quite possibly the most vile human being walking the earth. Their online propagandists like our very own Gigi and Dennis renewed their efforts here.
The willingness of the extreme far left media to propagate violence by not only accepting lies from Democrats but shield them from inspection and support them instead, did not start with Trump’s announcing his run for president. It began with Obama and Biden. But the media blames Trump instead.
With the Obama/Biden administration, America was systemically racist. Police went out hunting young black men to murder each shift they worked. Michael Brown was murdered while down on his knees in surrender with his arms up saying “Please don’t shoot”. Black Liars & Marxists and Antifa popped out all over the country to riot. Police officers were murdered while sitting in their cars, sitting in restaurants eating on lunch breaks, murdered in staged 9/11 call ambushes. The murderers were overwhelmingly blacks. Obama and Biden never once made a serious appeal to the country for the violence to stop; they excused it as an unfortunate response to police racism and hunting down and killing young black men.
The media response was to defend Obama/Biden doing nothing: “nothing to see here… we can understand why American blacks would get equally violent in response to police murdering them.”
Five police officers were murdered in a mass murder in Dallas and others wounded by a Black Panthers/Black Lives Matter racist and black supremacist. Obama showed up at their eulogy to raise his finger and pontificate to their families and police gathered there that while this was a tragedy, this was a “teachable moment”, an opportunity for police to reflect and cleanse themselves of their white supremacist racism. The media weren’t appalled by that lecture at a memorial service – they sagely nodded their heads in agreement.
Rioting and pillaging broke out in Washington the day of Trump’s inauguration. The media didn’t write about insurrection or violent mobs; they concerned themselves with questioning Trump’s comments on the size of the crowd at his inauguration. And how they still couldn’t believe that such a vile human being as Trump could fool Americans into voting for him instead of Clinton.
Shortly after Trump’s inauguration, one of Bernie Sanders campaign workers took action on Sanders’ continued claims that Trump eliminating Obamacare would kill people. He attempted the mass murder of House Republicans at a baseball practice. The near murder of Steve Scalise and serious wounding of others at that practice never got the legs in media memory of J6, where they’re happy to continue to roll with claims by Biden, Harris, Pelosi, etc that police officers were murdered on J6.
Instead, the media turned themselves inside out telling the country that the would-be Democrat mass murderer wasn’t motivated by the repeated lies of Bernie Sanders, Clinton, Obama, etc that Trump repealing Obamacare would kill people.
Then we had four years of ongoing lies Trump was Putin’s puppet, street rioting, increasingly aggressive and violent extreme far left “protestors”. And the propaganda media didn’t condemn it – they defended it. While attempting to create moral equivalencies that somehow or other Trump and Republicans were no different. In fact Trump was the cause of it.
We had months of widespread violence and murder after a violent black career felon was killed during an arrest by a police officer employed by a black Democrat police chief, in a black Democrat run city, in a Democrat run state. The first target of the rioting was the White House – where the president was Republican, and had nothing to do with the employment of any police officer in that city.
The media repeatedly typified that violence as “mostly peaceful” protesting. They turned themselves inside out to portray those months as justified and mostly peaceful. Few if any condemnations of that political violence were heard from the media – compare that to their obsession with the three hour long J6 rioters.
So here we are today. The extreme left propaganda of the news media excusing Democrat lies and violence is their new normal. They will happily lie about Trump while defending the lies of Biden, Harris, Pelosi et al to do their best to ensure Americans pick the right candidate to be president.
And when all of the media/Democrat partnership lying paints a picture of Trump as the most vile person still drawing breath, why wouldn’t a true American patriot attempt to murder Trump to save the county?
The extreme left propaganda media has been a significant causal factor in this violence since before Trump ever ran for office for them to use as their excuse. Politicians lying to demagogue their opponents can claim “this is just politics”.
The news media both defending Democrat lies and propagating their own lies can’t use the excuse that they’re just doing news. They’re doing it because they believe it is their job to ensure Democrats run this country, even if the voters don’t recognize that without their help.
“ Some of the greatest mocking in the media concerned Trump’s statement that Harris has supported transgender conversion treatment for undocumented persons.”
That’s an oversimplification. The claim is related to a 2019 questionnaire from the ACLU.
https://assets.aclu.org/live/uploads/2024/08/Harris-ACLU-Candidate-Questionnaire.pdf
It was not only about sex change surgery. It was about treatment common among transgender individuals, regular medical treatment. It included ALL California inmates. The question asked if she would ensure those in prison who are transgender and non-binary have been relying on the state to have access to treatment and medical care, including surgery. That doesn’t mean all of them will have it. She argued for one case for a transgender woman. Which led her to advocate for treatment of all inmates in prison.
Trump was not being entirely truthful. That’s par for the course.
Crime IS down. Turley doesn’t link all the FBI statistics except carjackings. Which is the only shows an increase, why doesn’t he look to the rest? Perhaps because it has decreased.
Trump loses so much during the debate that fact checking him was inevitable. That includes the pet eating claim that has been debunked multiple times including by the original source.
Republicans agree Trump did a horrible job during the debate. He lost by losing control and had zero discipline. Harris was able to goad Trump often and she easily had him on the defensive the entire time.
George: You said this, a “claim that has been debunked multiple times…”. How many gazillion times did we hear that said about let’s say: 1. Biden has dementia 2: Hunter Biden’s laptop story was Russian disinformation 3. Our wonderful Border Czar’s border is secure. Need I go on?
Bwahahahahahaha. He “lost”. Typical idiotic statement. I didn’t see a scorebboard.
“Harris was able to goad Trump often and she easily had him on the defensive the entire time”
Because the “moderators” did not force her to answer a single question. But you aren’t wrong. His answer the first 3 times she goaded him with proven lies, he should have replied “Madam VP, no matter how many times you repeat a lie, it will never be true. And I yield the remainder of my time so that Ms Harris can answer the question you asked her”. That likely would have put a stop to that garbage.
If you are suggesting he was outsmarted by Harris, you’re a simpleton and displaying ignorance again. Phillippe Reines is responsible for that “win”. Harris is an empty suit who did as she was told, just ike she will be as President.
Crime, especially violent crime is UP under Biden/Harris. The FBI stats are proven flawed and incomplete. Recidivism is RAMPANT. No bail, lax sentencing, and lax enforcement leads to that. No one needs a manipulated statisitic to know that.
The economy SUX under Biden/Harris. Just like crime, no one needs a statistic to know that.
Quite simply, you are willfully and malisciously lying about crime being down
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2024-quarterly-crime-report-and-use-of-force-data-update
George is right. 2024 data shows drops, which Turley doesn’t account for. Either he is intentionally deceptive, or he doesn’t realize what year it is. I am not sure which is worse.
“George is right. 2024 data shows drops, which Turley doesn’t account for. Either he is intentionally deceptive, or he doesn’t realize what year it is. I am not sure which is worse.”
Many cities did not report. Its a lie. And you are a liar for repeating it.
A comparison of data from agencies that voluntarily submitted at least two or more common months of data for January through March 2023 and 2024…
The number of incidents will be publicly released when 80 percent participation levels are met.
LMAO Thanks for making my point. Appreciate when the sycophants do the work.
Aside from that fact, any coincidental reduction in crime would be due to exactly WHICH Biden/Harris policy?
George is never right, “anonymous” George.
Stop lying.
Not to mention “Anonymous-George”, its just like inflation…2024 is down from WHAT?
Overall, under Biden/Harris, crime, even with these bogus FBI numbers, is UP.
What everyone fails to mention is that so much of the actual crime is not being adjudicated, or even prosecuted. Stats are easily manipulated to support whatever facts you want to support, but look around for the actual crime! I live in the Chicagoland area, and every day I hear on the local news about some horrific crime committed by someone that was not prosecuted for some other crime and has a rap sheet a mile long. I’m no Trumper, but I don’t have to be to see the way this country has devolved into some “sh*thole”. Until politicians are no longer making a career of being part of the ruling class, nothing is going to change, from either political party.
Someone believes the FBI data?
George is right. FBI 2024 data shows drops, which Turley doesn’t account for.
Is that you David Muir, posting here Anonymously to deflect from the national data that pretty much all categories of violent crime are way up?
And the FBI that perjured themselves to FISA courts that the Democrats’ “Russia Dossier” was all verified intelligence agency evidence, we should trust them?
The FBI that hid the felonies of The First Felon Crackhead Kid for years – especially during the 2020 election campaign, where they allowed the Democrat lie that the Biden Bribery Laptop was just “Russian election disinformation”.
David Muir, posting Anonymously or not, we’re supposed to believe you as well as the FBI you use to prop up Harris lies? And George’s lies here?
David Muir/Anonymous/George… you believe if you throw lies against the wall long enough, your well earned credibility will suddenly make them stick?
Bad data from the FBI mislead about crime
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/2953562/bad-data-from-the-fbi-mislead-about-crime/
The Problem With The FBI’s Missing Crime Data
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/08/the-problem-with-the-fbi-s-missing-crime-data
DOJ releases 2023 crime statistics, Trump campaign fact checks ABC
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/trump-campaign-fact-checks-abc-crime-statistics-presidential-debate?utm_source=referral&utm_medium=offthepress&utm_campaign=home
Georgie says, “Republicans agree Trump did a horrible job during the debate.”
georgie, you miss one big, huuugely, important fact here. The Republicans who were critical of Trump were angry that he did not defend himself against Harris’ lies and the ABC moderators’ failure to call her out. Republicans were also angry that Trump did not bring up some important “issue” facts that would have crushed Harris’ lies and statements, nor did he call out her childish facial expressions, gestures, and smirks, in addition to her lies and feel-good emptiness. WHo was the Adult in the Room, Georgie?
For one who brags about the importance of context, boy, you sure failed that test.
* reconstructive surgeons need to step up about this. They are beginning by refusing surgeries for children.
@Svelaz George: Statistics change 180 degrees based on the selection process. Svelaz doesn’t know what selection is so diarrhea runs from his mouth just like it did when he talked about the problems in the Middle East.
When the Ottoman Empire broke up, portions of the Middle East were divided into Mandates. Some of the major countries of the time each got a piece of land, which, under specific laws, was to be divided up to become nation-states. That is how many of the countries were created and the boundaries settled. Therefore, each country created worked under the same international rules.
What happened to the British Mandate?
Time for you to respond, but you don’t. You can’t. You are too stupid to do so.
Trump loses so much during the debate that fact checking him was inevitable. Republicans agree Trump did a horrible job during the debate.
— George
George: Professor Turley’s column today was written about YOU, Dennis, and Gigi – not just about your fellow Democrat moderator “fact checkers”.
And George, nobody is better equipped to tell us what Republicans think than a virulent neo-communist Democrat apparatchik like you, George. Because you’re ACTUALLY a constitutional Republican!
When the truth is not a viable choice it is aborted. When it is steeped in dysphoria, it is corrupted. When it is inconvenient, it is “shared”.
Conspiracy theorists correct / xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx
Experts correct / 0
The cause and effect of our political system today is our K thru 12 educational system.
With Fact-Checks Like These, How Does Truth Stand a Chance?
Good morning Dennis McIntyre; does it make your day that Professor Turley wrote this column with you in mind?
Happily, you don’t get a pass here in person like your fellow lying “moderators” do in the legacy media
Sadly young people today have their heads up their cabooses’s instead of questioning what the media feeds them they quickly accept the lies. Ask any of them today who Vladimir Pozner Jr. or Baghdad Bob where and without a doubt they would answer with a quizzical look “Base guitarist for Taylor Swift”?
“young people today”… ?????? The senior citizen group I’m in is just as or even more willing to accept the lies of the propaganda Democrat media. I don’t pay much attention to political polling, it it would seem it reflects that reality if you use preference for Biden or Harris versus Trump and compare age demographics.
Propaganda via lies of commission or omission works on all age groups
They have no critical thinking skills.
Interviewing the citizens reveals more truth than any main stream media spewing.
Even later events claim a whistleblower has supplied a notarized document stating that the fact checking by ABC was pre coordinated with the questions asked and that there were be no fact checking of Harris. This just goes to show how in the tank the mainstream media is to one political party.
I cannot say this for sure but as I was turning from one football game to another 60 minutes seemed to be asserting that a capitol police office was killed by the J6 demonstrators. I may have heard that wrong but that appeared to be the gist of the statement and it appeared and disappeared very casually.
Last I heard the only capitol policemen who died on Jan 6 was Officer Sicknick who died of a vertebra-basilar infarction (ie:stroke) with no evidence of trauma (like a fire extinguisher), which had been falsely reported.
Also the MSM continues to truncate Trumps comments at Charlottesville to make it look like he was calling Neo Nazi’s and white supremacists “many fine people on both sides” and ,in fact Harris and Biden both continue to say that as well as falsely saying Trump calling The Dead in France “Suckers and losers” when there was no such statement verified by anyone.
ABC also decided to unmute the microphones at the last minute.
It’s a sad day when we have to turn to CNN to get an unbiased debate.
If we are going to have debates then we have to remove the media from them. Allow one moderator to make sure that the rules are followed. Each candidate supply one questioner and those 2 questioners pick a third. Each question is asked to both candidates with alternating who gets asked the question first. Time limit on answers and then the other candidate gets a short rebuttal. Microphones are muted for everyone who is not to speak.
The audience needs to fact check on their own. It’s called becoming an informed voter.
With the Media so untrustworthy anymore, it’s the only way to conduct a debate. Otherwise I will simple continue to not watch them. Last time was 2004.
It might even be worthwhile eliminating the media entirely and settling on certain individuals in either party to ask questions with a 3rd one being independent. Reduce the media to just observer status. That might get real questions.
Mr Turley-
Let’s be please precise about the claims made by Trump.
1) Shortly before the “debate,” there were at least three videos circulating on X and elsewhere of three citizens of Springfield relating what appeared at the time to be firsthand accounts of geese from local ponds being decapitated and pets disappearing and a cat being eaten.
2) Two of the testimonies were taken from the live/recorded feed of Springfield’s City Commission meeting.
The third was police body camera footage showing the encounter and subsequent arrest of a woman who had allegedly killed a cat. The witnesses stated she had been eating it.
3) These accounts were worthy of being taken seriously and investigated, not mocked. Furthermore, the plight of the 40,000 citizens of Springfield overwhelmed by 20,000 illegal immigrants allowed into the country and placed on a small American city’s streets, all as a result of Harris’ policies deserved much more respect. Trump missed the opportunity, but no one should be surprised that he was and continues to represent the concerns of people outside of your bubble.
3) Timing is everything- some of those claims appear to be secondhand, others we don’t know what happened. (Where’s the followup on the alleged cat killer? I haven’t heard, but I saw her arrested on bodycam footage.)
No disrespect intended, but I believe you sometimes fall victim to preconceived prejudices toward the people who don’t mix in the circles you do in an effort to appear fair and balanced. There’s absolutely NOTHING fair or just about this.
the woman “eating’ the cat was not from Springfield and was NOT Haitian…and several of the items you list HAVE BEEN checked and are either not happening in Springfield or are photos with no back up data such a date or location or someone claiming they took the picture and the story behind it. I’m not saying that the animal eating story is true or untrue…but we really need to move on to things that are more important and better substantiated IMHO 🙂
Conspiracy theorists correct / xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx
Expert Fact checkers / 0
“Authorities to crack down on ‘animal sacrifices’ in New York City”
1 hours ago
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/rita-panahi/authorities-to-crack-down-on-animal-sacrifices-in-new-york-city/video/ac77c1923e5e1981146943cf1eaf1ed7
You missed the point. It is about respecting the individuals who made the claims publicly, not mocking the man who gave voice to their concerns. Harris showed no compassion toward the legitimate concerns the citizens of Springfield have as a result of her policies.
*Correct. The citizens of Springfield just don’t matter.
The 20 thousand migrants will be 40 thousand within a year because of chain migration. The 20 thou are seeds or cells. Springfield will grow to a million Haitians eventually.
The Haiti hubs are spread out it takes 8 hubs and the Dominican Republic says thank you.
Granny, despite the statement by Anonymous below (anonymous posters repeatedly lie), these facts create uncertainty that is justified considering the rapes, murders and the ability to extrapolate, making Trump’s comments true or close to the truth.
” I believe you sometimes fall victim to preconceived prejudices toward the people who don’t mix in the circles you do in an effort to appear fair and balanced. There’s absolutely NOTHING fair or just about this.”
I agree with your statement and conclusion. Since it is unlikely that the professor will read this note, you should send it to his email. I say this, though I am a big fan of him, but I wish him to expand his viewpoint.
“Where’s the followup on the alleged cat killer?”
The cat-killer lady story was real, but misplaced. It turned out to be in a different city, Columbus iirc.
Not only a different city, but NOT AN IMMIGRANT.
There are exactly ZERO first-hand accounts of Haitians in Springfield stealing and/or eating people’s pets.
There is ONE report of four Haitians in a car carrying geese, with no reason to believe they had done anything wrong. People don’t have pet geese. Geese are pests, and if someone wants to take some they’re welcome to it.
I don’t give a damn whether they have a hunting license, and nor does anyone else. Trump’s and Vance’s claim was that pets were being stolen, because that is what people care about. Hunting pests without a license is akin to a paramedic racking up a harmless traffic violation while on a call, or a soup kitchen getting a harmless building code violation.
These accounts were worthy of being taken seriously and investigated, not mocked. Furthermore, the plight of the 40,000 citizens of Springfield overwhelmed by 20,000 illegal immigrants allowed into the country and placed on a small American city’s streets, all as a result of Harris’ policies deserved much more respect. Trump missed the opportunity, but no one should be surprised that he was and continues to represent the concerns of people outside of your bubble.
Overall great comment granny. I sincerely doubt the American people were distracted away from the shocking number of illegal immigrants overwhelming this small town. I live in a town of about 45,000. We have a small group <40 of homeless men that rotate in from surrounding communities to house and feed them. Whenever that occurs, crime spikes. This small group has committed burglaries, arson, vandalism, auto theft, sexual assault and murder in 2024 alone. I shudder to think of what our community would have to endure if that number were to increase by 50,000%.
stop being nice….ABC are liars…and why doesn’t someone SUE…just because you are media doesn’t mean you get to LIE!!!
Sue for what? They’re not breaking any law.
No, being the news industry doesn’t mean they get to lie; being in the USA means they get to lie. The first amendment applies to everyone, including but not limited to the news industry. There’s no exception for lies, especially on matters of public concern such as politics.
ABC debate, fact check of Trump only, was simply one massive Hit Job to discredit Trump, even though the fact checking was All False and wrong. ABC was 10000000 % behind Harris. Harris Team knew what was coming. She was never answered the questions, especially the first one Are you better Off under Harris/Biden vs Trump.
sorry delete the word was in the last line after She
Turley, I’d be a little more circumspect about asserting that any of Trump’s claims have been “debunked”. Time has eventually proven him right before. Just because a claim seems ridiculous on its face doesn’t mean it’s not true. And if you’re betting that Haitian refugees wouldn’t eat a cat or a dog, I think you’d better become a little more familiar with their culture. You won’t find too many overlaps with that of the Midwest.
There’s nothing in their culture that would predispose them to eating cats or dogs. Neither species is commonly eaten in Haiti.
And the fact is that this claim HAS been debunked. The Springfield police say there is no evidence of pets being stolen at all, let alone eaten.
* you’re laughable. The police in such a small town are easily overwhelmed. Don’t make ill advised statements about 20bthousand people is wise. How old are you? High school?
“Harris should avoid one-on-one media interviews because” she is so insecure that she degenerates into cackling and word salads. She’s so ignorant and phony that she degenerates into fifth-grade preachiness. And she’s so afraid of being outed as the far Leftist she is, that she deflects questions with empty statements such as: “I’m from a middle-class family . . .”
Now his statement is accurate.
I walk my dog in cemeteries around my house in Boston. I first saw dead chickens at a grave on November 25, 2022 (I took a picture, it was something I never saw before). Since then I have seen at least 20 more instance of dead chickens. I am sure if an intrepid reporter in Ohio went to cemetery they could find evidence of dead chickens with a little effort.
I also have heard from a Haitian immigrant in my son’s class (this was 3 years ago, it became political) that Haitians eat cats, dogs, and anything else that moves in Haiti. It beats eating mud cookies. You do not have to assume evil intentions on the part Haitians to think a few of that 20,000 that were dumped in a small city, saw a cat wandering around, did not know it was a pet, and ate it. I do not think the biden administration is educating the immigrants on American customs, like pet ownership, before they release them in to society.
The smug gaslighting without any effort to see if there is truth to the claims is ridiculous.
I see the dead chickens in both the Catholic and city cemeteries, usually accompanied by alcohol and money. I doubt they are voodoo sacrifices. Maybe looking in to the claims could lead to an understanding of the what has to be a Haitian custom.
Instead smug coastal elites deny the deplorables. Pathetic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_cookie
* it’s voodu. The Haitian religion is voodu with some Roman catholic memes injected. The animals blood appeases the spirits and can then offer help. The animals being tortured are a part of it. It can be any animal, dogs, cats chickens, goats etc.
It comes from west Africa and different forms are practiced in Jamaica, Cuba, Puerto Rico Haiti, Dominican Republic etc. It’s quite common in New York now and officials are seeking to crack down on it because of animal cruelty. It’s a bunk religion except to the practitioners.
I’m not not touching it or it’ll go to SCOTUS as a 1st amendment right. Welcome voodu and enjoy the 4th world! 🤦♀️
The chickens show no sign of torture. They appear to have had their neck broken. If you ever been to the Caribbean, Africa, South America,… and seen a local farmer kill a chicken, they pick it up by the head and twirl it.
* investigators have reported the dogs are repeatedly hit in the head and tortured before the neck is broken. Cats are cut in half and paws removed.
It’s a religion. Multiculturalism…
Anonymous 10:07 pm -That was a common way to kill chickens in the South. My uncles and grandfather all did it because they raised thousands of chickens. Also it was handy to have a hog operation close by because the hogs disposed of dead chickens quite expeditiously, when they were not salvageable for sale.
* so your people had chicken sacrifices to ghosts. Ok.
Canadian geese and other birds and mammals will become endangered once again. Let’s hope the larger mammals survive.
And then this quote showed up in my FB feed today: September 12 at 11:32 AM ·
“This constant lying is not aimed at making the people believe a lie, but at ensuring that no one believes anything anymore.
A people that can no longer distinguish between truth and lies cannot distinguish between right and wrong. And such a people, deprived of the power to think and judge, is, without knowing and willing it, completely subjected to the rule of lies.
With such a people, you can do whatever you want.” —Hannah Arendt, German historian and philosopher (1906–1975)
I also saw this and thought it is spot on. We must hold fast to the insistence that objective truth is knowable, discoverable and a fundamental fact of this life.
We must NEVER stop exposing lies and seeking truth.