Below is my column on the rise of Antifa deniers in Washington. Once embraced and even marketed on the left, Antifa has become the group that must not be named as political violence rises across the country. It does not matter that radicals identify as Antifa, coordinate protests, carry Antifa flags, wear signature clothing, and espouse the same ideas from the “Antifa handbook.” There have even been people elected as Antifa representatives. Yet, the current spin is to pretend that they do not exist as a single organization to deflect the debate over violence on the left. Even with the past and current FBI directors saying that they exist as a group, politicians are mocking those who object to Antifa, even journalists and others targeted by its members.
This week, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison (D) claimed that “nobody” knows what the left-wing terrorist organization Antifa is and that it does not exist. However, he previously promoted the “Antifa Handbook” in 2018 and praised the group as terrifying Trump. Now, however, he has joined the chorus of Antifa denials as political violence rises around the country.
Here is the column:
Roughly seventy years ago, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover famously declared, “There is no organized crime in America.” Hoover’s stubborn denial of the existence of the mafia continued despite ample evidence to the contrary, from arrests to congressional testimony.
Many have speculated on why Hoover maintained his stubborn denial. Perhaps, they say, he was trying to avoid the political embarrassment of long ignoring the single largest criminal network in the country.
Many today seem to be adopting a Hoover-esque wilful blindness about another violent group: Antifa.
Politicians and pundits are denying that the left-wing anarchist group exists, mocking President Trump’s designation of Antifa as a terrorist organization.
Rep. Dan Goldman (D-N.Y.) seemed to morph into Hoover before our very eyes, including a posting in which he challenged anyone to “name one member of ‘Antifa.’”
Others on the left have joined Goldman in this absurd claim. Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel committed part of his monologue to assure viewers that Antifa is no more than a mythical “chupacabra.” “You understand there is no Antifa,” he said. “This is an entirely made-up organization.”
I have testified about Antifa before Congress, run columns on the organization for over a decade, and wrote a book discussing Antifa. I did oppose declaring Antifa a terrorist organization due to free speech concerns, but I also know that it is very real.
By design, Antifa avoids typical leadership hierarchies and organizational structures. Antifa was first created in the 1920s, associated with the Weimar-era German communist group Antifaschistische Aktion.
It is easy to satisfy Goldman’s demand in naming some members, since they self-identify as members of Antifa. One such student came from my campus and proclaimed that Antifa was winning after his arrest for property destruction.
When another radical was arrested after taking an axe to a congressional office, he self-identified as a member of Antifa.
Before Kyle Benjamin Douglas Calvert, 26, implanted an IED device outside of Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall’s office in downtown Montgomery, he put up stickers reading “support your local Antifa.”
Numerous Antifa members have been arrested, including some who claimed to be journalists.
Many protesters belong to Antifa groups that have names like “Rose City Antifa” and offshoots like Love and Rage and Mexico’s Amor Y Rabia. Antifa members have been elected to the French and European parliaments.
Rutgers Professor Mark Bray’s “Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook,” called by some the “Antifa bible,” explains that the group is united in its opposition to free speech. “Most Americans in Antifa have been anarchists or antiauthoritarian communists,” he writes. “From that standpoint, ‘free speech’ as such is merely a bourgeois fantasy unworthy of consideration.”
Law enforcement officials like former FBI Director Christopher Wray have long debunked the deniers like Goldman. “Antifa is a real thing,” said Wray.
Ironically, when many on the left are not denying its existence, they are rallying their members or actually selling Antifa merchandise. Former Democratic National Committee deputy chair Keith Ellison — now the Minnesota attorney general — proclaimed that Antifa would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. His own son, Minneapolis City Council member Jeremiah Ellison, declared his allegiance to Antifa in the heat of the protests this summer.
But ,with Antifa violence on the rise, Democratic leaders have gone back to denying its existence even as Antifa deploys its signature black hoodies and masks.
Indeed, some liberal activists admit to having coordinated violent protests with Antifa groups. For example, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill professor Dwayne Dixon was a member of the radical gun club Redneck Revolt, a group recently referenced in flyers quoting the assassin of Charlie Kirk to rally the left. The flyers read, “Hey, Fascist! Catch! The only political group that celebrates when Nazis die.”
During a panel at Harvard University, Dixon reportedly admitted that an Antifa-linked group requested his gun club to provide security during the August 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia: “Prior to that day, as the planning for the defense of Charlottesville proceeded, the local Anarchist People of Color Collective … had requested that Redneck Revolt be present to secure Justice Park for a wide variety of activists who were expected to assemble.”
The denial of the existence of an actual group is meant to deflect the discussion of the rising violence from the left, as these same politicians fuel the rage with reckless rhetoric. But they’re not so good at keeping their story straight. While whipping up the mob with claims that democracy is dying and comparing their opponents to Nazis, they deny the existence of the very group that politicians like Ellison praise for targeting conservatives.
Hoover declined to admit the mafia existed until, on November 14, 1957, dozens of mobsters were found meeting in a farmhouse in Apalachin, New York.
What is different is that Antifa has repeatedly had such farmhouse moments, with prosecutions revealing a national movement with self-identified members. So why the denial? These are the shock troops for some politicians who think that they can use the violent group for political advantage. They are mistaken. Antifa is unlikely to have much use for establishment liberals once it gains more power.
Until then, Antifa can count on the Goldmans of the world to give them cover in denying that they exist.
In the film “The Usual Suspects,” the character Verbal Kint offered this explanation for the invisible villain Keyser Söze: “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.”
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. He is the author of the bestselling book “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
Audacious false narratives as everyday occurrences in the political landscape would have been squashed like a bug 40 years ago. You couldn’t get away with them. I remember Lee Atwater’s infamous push poll in the 2000 South Carolina primary — suggesting that John McCain’s dark-skinned adopted daughter Bridget was his illegitimate child.
Because McCain lost that primary, the technique was validated among cutthroat political operatives. Then, in the 2004 Democratic primary race, Vermont Gov. Howard Dean was subjected to a relentless audio misperception campaign, depicting him as howling crazily taken from a unidirectional mic track that concealed the raucous cheering audience over which he could barely be heard if you were actually there. What’s wrong with a little audio trickery, right? — when winning is everything.
Then, after 9-11, we had to go fight the Iraqis for 8 years based on a clever con-job waged by Saddam’s domestic Shiite opposition. Too many Americans “wanted to believe” Al Qaeda was being given nukes, emotionally spurred by the 9-11 attack into paranoid aggrandization of the threat. In reality, the impulse was to avenge the 9-11 attacks, and it didn’t matter which Moslems paid the price.
Then you had Trump’s “birther” false accusation against Obama. which caught many of us off-guard when it acquired “legs”. With each transgression against the honest truth achieving a desired political effect, the power of the well-crafted lie metastacized like a cancer. The Hunter Biden laptop cover-up orchestrated by Biden, Blinken and their ex-CIA friends pushed Joe over the top in a close race, which then the loser Trump thought he could overturn by getting enough people to go along with his paranoid fantasy of “having won by a landslide”.
This leaves us in a precarious place where political information manufactured by activists actually lands solidly on loyalist ears without a hint of impropriety. That’s why Antifa can organize rallies and provoke violence, and yet not even exist. Without objective truth as unifying glue, our 250 year experiment in self-government is doomed to failure. A moral sewer produces only regrettable decisions.
It’s kind of audacious of you to get to Trump’s birther false accusation against Obama – while omitting it started with Clinton and her campaign which you apparently forgot to mention.
And then moved on to also just forget to mention that Obama didn’t just make false accusations against his most dangerous potential opponent of his 2012 reelection, Governor McDonald, but actually had Jack Smith falsely prosecute and convict him.
Then you also forget to mention the four year long false accusations of the Russia Dossier. No mention of that attempt to rig the 2016 election, nor the four years of false accusations to attempt to have Trump impeached or at least destroy his presidency.
And then you smoothly carried on by forgetting to mention the last three years of false, innovative criminal charges in attempts to jail Trump and eliminate him as a political foe.
Part of the reason we’re in what you call a precarious place is because of people who selectively decide what they will tell their readers – and what they choose to try and keep concealed. You know some of them!
As Professor Thomas Sowell often says: Beware of people who want to tell you A story – instead of ALL the story.
BTW… there were eight reasons put before Congress before we went back into Iraq after that country never complied with the ceasefire conditions from the day the fighting ended. You want to blame the Shiites for every one of those reasons – including Sadaam refusing to comply with the conditions for the ceasefire pretty much from the day we withdrew our troops from the front line?
Weapons of mass destruction was just one of them – you couldn’t name a single one of the others without first frantically running to Google to learn about the rest. You failed to tell all of that story because you’re legitimately ignorant of it.
False narratives and half truths are indeed a problem.
It was Governor McDonnell. Quite a stretch to suggest that he would have been a viable candidate against a 2nd term of a popular President. He would have had to beat Romney for the Republican nomination. It is interesting that doing business and taking bribes as Governor were considered by the Supreme Court to not be official acts, hence the conviction was vacated.
The Russian dossier was mainly discredited within the investigation into why the Russians were calling Trump’s campaign headquarters regularly and was not part of the evidence given for the warrants.
Maybe if Trump didn’t violate per se terms of New York laws he would not have been convicted.
There were eight reasons? I lost count because what Bush the Lesser did was to continue moving the goal posts. Bush the Lesser’s own intelligence agencies and everyone with boots on the ground in Iraq informed him that Iraq was not a threat to anyone, that it was all bluster and bluffing to keep other countries from attacking Iraq. This was the reason his father, a former CIA head, decided not to invade after pushing Saddam’s army out of Kuwait.
Moreover, the only WMDs found were the ones the West sold to him when the West supported his attacks on Iran.
Saddam was an evil guy, but there are plenty of evil leaders; the US moved from an evil guy protecting his hind side to regional destabilization because that was in the interest of Bush the Lesser’s best buddies – the House of Saud and the House of bin Laden.
The Hunter Biden laptop where a legally blind owner of a store thousands of miles from Hunter Biden’s home handed the copies of the contents to a Biden opponent because the owner was an opponent of Joe Biden, a laptop which had no information implicating President Joe Biden in anything? A smear campaign that apparently was based on a laptop that was stolen from Hunter’s therapist?
Also, note that the ticket the legally blind repairman, who could not recall who brought the laptop in, had written on the ticket that there were three laptops on the same repair order and that data recovery was the main reason. Why would Hunter want the data recovered and then never return? The repairman could have sent it, which he ultimately did to Rudy Giuliani. What happened to the other two laptops? Snooping though a customer’s data is at the least unethical; no doubt his other prospective customers realized he could be snooping through their private information and so he lost his business.
It is most likely that Russians stole the laptop from Hunter’s therapist, snooped on it and found nothing immediately useful and mainly salacious, and worked to find the one place they could falsify a chain of custody that looked like it came from Hunter directly. Did they just get lucky with the unethical repairman or did they work to find one who was so anti-Biden?
Why would Hunter steal his own laptop from his therapist rather than just asking for its return?
Why would Hunter ignore calls from the repairman to come get his three laptops?
Who did the repairman actually call to say the work was done?
Why wouldn’t the repairman do what every other repair shop does with abandoned hardware and either wipe the drives to prepare for sale or shelve the unit as a parts donor?
How would a person who is not the President cover-up a laptop that was in the hands of the Trump administration and the Trump DoJ? Don’t the people the data was originally given to,g who made copies of the contents, also have friends in the CIA?
In fact “two Republican Senate committees released in September 2020 and a Republican House Oversight committee investigation released in April 2024 did not find wrongdoing by Joe Biden with regard to Ukraine and his son’s business dealings there.”
How does an organization that does *not* exist “strike fear in the heart” of Trump?
Simple. Paranoia.
That quote is from Ellison.
So according to you, Ellison is spreading rumors and conspiracy theories to stoke paranoia.
That fits.
“How does an organization that does *not* exist “strike fear in the heart” of Trump?”
It doesn’t strike fear. Trump is manufacturing a strawman to use as label for anyone he doesn’t like and he wants to use anti-terrorism laws as a threat to stifle free speech. Technically, the Project 2025 backers want this, but Trump is a meat-suit auto-pen for them.
“It doesn’t strike fear.”
Apparently, some of you can’t read. The words “strike fear in the heart” are from Ellison, a staunch Leftist.
I do not understand the absurd denials by the left – many posters here.
I understand the frustration of some – like Turley that we can not even get most left wing nuts to accept VERY BASIC and OBVIOUS things – like the existance of Antifa and the threat they pose.
At the same time – the Head in the sand attitude of those on the left over this and many other OBVIOUS facts is for the most part irrelevant.
Antifa is real and despite their efforts to avoid traditional structures – they leave more than enough for law enforcement to follow – possibly even right to the money that supports them.
When an antifa member commits a crime – the facts of the crime are available to find them, arrest them and convict them.
Today – those facts often include Video of them committing the crime.
Once identified their contacts, their social media, their digital and real world foot print can be examined.
Where that establishes that the crimes they have committed are part of a conspiracy – any identified groups can be targeted and so forth through the entire web of the supposed non existant group.
Left wing nuts denying the reality of a wide assortment of things does NOT change reality.
It does not change the real world evidence on the ground.
It does not change law enforcements ability to use long established tools to target them for the very real crimes committed.
This is also true of the long list of other things those on the left deny.
You can only create your own reality inside your own bubble. You can only create it for yourself, you can not force it on others, and it can only exist so long as you are able to exist within that bubble without significant interaction with ACTUAL reality.
John
do not understand the absurd denials by the left – many posters here.
_______________________________
Simple answer John
They support this.
Prove it.
Don’t understand? Because you’re stoopid.
John Say,
“I do not understand the absurd denials by the left – many posters here.”
Of course you don’t. Because YOU are in denial of the facts, ANTIFA was never one homogenous group. The problem is similar to how those on the right keep conflating and mixing ideologies one such as Marxism, Socialism, Communism, etc. So many can’t explain the differences or make any distinctions. It’s ignorance that makes it hard to understand.
You’re projecting your own flaws onto others and that is the problem.
ANTIFA is an ideology, not a group or movement. Making ANTIFA a domestic terrorist group is just a pretext to label anyone who opposes Trump’s immigration policies or any policy as ANTIFA and crack down on their speech. It’s literally a form of silencing dissent. Professor Turley is opposed to it, but his mealy-mouthed opposition to Trump’s labeling of ANTIFA as a terrorist organization is merely lip service instead of a full-fledged defense of the freedom to express the idea ANTIFA is.
It is YOU who is enveloped in your own reality bubble. That is why you don’t understand. Those on the left are seeing your irrationality from outside your information silo and bubble of reality. It’s that obvious.
“. . . ANTIFA was never one homogenous group.”
Neither are scam artists, street gangs, international terrorists, . . .
Yet there they are.
Sam, that is the problem. Those on the right cannot grasp the concept becasue they NEED to have one homogenous group to focus on in order for it to make sense. So they create it out of thin air to better fit their view of what ANTIFA is. Instead of taking the time to understand it they create an easier path to grasp.
George, the rabid pavlov puppy, who cant stop following Turley around, has now posted that “antifa is just an idea”, 20 times in the last 2 days.
He can’t stop repeating himself. He tthinks that if he chants the lie often enough, it will become true.
Is there an oligarchy?
GeorgeX, poster child for the emotionally broken neo-communist left tried this: “Those on the right cannot grasp the concept becasue they NEED to have one homogenous group”.
If you want to know what those on the right think – who better to ask than a neo-communist like GeorgeX who has been denying reality and making up his own special set of facts ever since he arrived here?
GeorgeX, who can’t grasp the fact Professor Turley doesn’t even give him the attention one would give a yapping small dog, as GeorgeX follows Professor Turley around, daring to nip at his heels (from a safe distance, of course).
You aren’t just a cheap fake American, GeorgeX. You’re an amoral, mental train wreck and cheap fake human being.
The conservatives have fought the “War on Drugs” for half a century and it is clear that the drugs are winning.
This is what happens when one targets a noun.
George, the rabid pavlov puppy, who cant stop following Turley around, has now posted that “antifa is just an idea”, 20 times in the last 2 days.
He can’t stop repeating himself. He tthinks that if he chants the lie often enough, it will become true.
“Because YOU are in denial of the facts”
Odd that you should say that GeorgeX, as you’re in denial that you have absolutely no credibility here. And can’t face the fact that you’re considered to be a pathological liar.
Antifa poses a major threat to neo-Nazis. I suppose if one supports neo-Nazis then Antifa is a personal threat.
Is that what bothers you John? That those opposed to Nazis are a threat to you?
It’s kind of the leftist approach to everything. Deny objective reality and proffer solutions to problems that either don’t exist or didn’t exist until the left created them, while pretending that actual real solutions are impossible, i.e. closing the border. I have leftist fatigue at this point.
Trish!
https://x.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1572614112516968455
President Trump just proved that it is easier to negotiate with radical terrorists than the Democrats. They have truly gone off the deep end.
I met the leader, by chance, of the Italian Anarchists some years ago. He was real. The group is real. Antifa is real. They are funded by plenty of money. Go after the money and arrest the little thugs and throw them in prison. That will dry up the “rent a thug” paid agitators. Thankfully, the full force of the FBI, Treasury, DOJ, and other federal agencies is now being applied.
Spot on… Thank you!
President Trump just proved that it is easier to negotiate with radical terrorists than the Democrats.
Well, I’m tempted to ask what the difference is between radical terrorists and Democrats. But instead, I’ll recognize that your observation wins the Internet for at least this month!
*. Anyone concerned that 2000 prisoners were released for 20 Israelis? 2000 is a band of merry men? The Israelis have not received the corpses of the still missing exception, four (4). Are they dead? So Gaza has already reneged?
I hope the unsaid threat looms eternally? It’s good to have the 20.
These Gazans are some fine people.
Haven’t read the antifa handbook. Unqualified to respond.
The fact that Israel has on many occasions traded often thousands of criminals for a handful of innocents is proof that the Israelis place a very high value on life, and that Hamas and the Palestinians do not.
It is also a strong indication of the more advanced state of their society.
The value of life rises the more prosperous a society is.
WAR is never fair or fun.
Sometimes you have to agree with stuff you hate.
WTF???
Radical terrorists is a rough way to refer to Netanyahu. Trump didn’t talk to anyone from Hamas.
The Italian Anarchists are entirely unrelated to American Antifa.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and hangs around with a bunch of other ducks, it’s going to get shot, gutted, plucked, stuffed, and roasted like a duck. Only a matter of time.
Professor Turley thinks ANTIFA is a group? That’s amusing. ANTIFA is an ideology. Trump designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist group is so broad that anything contrary to any Trump policy.
Even Wray made the claim that ANTIFA is not a monolithic group. It’s an ideology. Trump is going to be trampling all over the 1st amendment in pursuit of his misguided idea of what ANTIFA is. He can’t even distinguish between reality and TV documentaries.
Buddhism is an ideology. Once a group is united and turns to the use of violence to attain its ends it becomes a “group” of violent law breakers. Have you noticed that the ANTIFA army always wears the same uniform.
If they were not a group they would present themselves as ordinarily dressed people. We understand X. The Nazi and Stalinist marchers in the streets were not groups but just ideologies. I’m sure that according to your definition X that you would agree that the proud boys are just an ideology. Delirious much?
Antifa is not “united”
They always look united when they are together. But believe this idiot, not your lying eyes.
You can say or beleive whatever you want. Law enforcement will follow the actual evidence.
Do you beleive that when 30-100 people show up dressed identically at the same time and place for an event that this is no communication, no coordination ?
If that event turns violent – and antifa events nearly always do – then law enforcment can further investigate to determine if some real group exists.
Your denial of their existance is not a speed bump to investigation. With sufficient evidence law enforcement can get warrants for communications, for financial records.
Do you honestly beleive that Antifa violence materializes out of thin air ? When you plan violence – all those involved often even tangentially in the planning are co-conspirators in the crime.
Law enforcement will be able to do the same things to Antifa as it has to the KKK or the Mafia – if anything it is likely to be easier. There are more records of communications today.
70 years ago, you would be lucky if the phone company knew who called who, To know what they said, you would need a phone tap in real time. And few would write letters detailing criminal planning.
Today there are records of ever phone call, your location is tracked by your devices. If you send an email – it is preserved on the computer of the sender the receiver and their mail servers. If you communicate over social media you leave your footprints all over. Little is done today using cash, all payments leave digitial records.
If you drive or walk down the streets of most cities – your movement is recorded on video.
Left wing nuts here like you are found of claiming that Police dashcam or body cam video contradicts something.
But in the real world dashcam and body cam video is increasingly securing convictions and reducing the subjectivity of criminal law. If an officer pulls you over for DUI – it is not going to be your word against his is court – the video of the event will be there. It is increasingly difficult for police to “target” people, but at the same time it is increasingly easy to get convictions – even where the defendant has excellent high paid lawyers.
The jury sees what actually happened – before and during the stop. ‘
And in addition to dashcams and bodycams there is an increasing body of third party video. Everyone today walks arround with a high quality video camera in their pocket.
All of this radically reduces the subjectivity of policing, it also eliminates more and more of the “bad cops” and increases the quality of policing. The police KNOW that they are being observered near 100% of the time – often by MULTIPLE sources, some of which they can not control. They KNOW that if they engage in misconduct they are likely to be caught. But they also KNOW that false accusations of misconduct will die quickly.
My point is that there is a wealth of evidence for law enforcement to follow.
If you wish to pretend that Antifa is an idea and not a group – that really does not matter.
Law enforcement will arrest people for bad acts. It will gather evidence that those acts were part of planned violence, and it will arrest those involved in the planning.
The means to do those are readily available and known to most anyone who has ever watched a police procedural.
John Say,
“Left wing nuts here like you are found of claiming that Police dashcam or body cam video contradicts something.”
Dashcam and body cam videos have indeed caught Police lying, planting evidence, and committing crimes, and yes even contradicting police reports. Because Police are allowed to lie to you, and on reports. The only way to expose that is through evidence and in court.
“If you wish to pretend that Antifa is an idea and not a group – that really does not matter.
Law enforcement will arrest people for bad acts. It will gather evidence that those acts were part of planned violence, and it will arrest those involved in the planning.”
It’s not pretense. It’s a fact that ANTIFA is an idea. It’s not one homogenous group. Your inability or denial of the fact is the problem. Law enforcement will arrest people under pretenses the majority of the time, especially under Trump’’s DOJ crackdown on dissent. We already have Grand Juries refusing to issue indictments because law enforcement is overreaching and lying about charges. Law enforcement including ICE, CBP, DHS, etc is already operating lawlessly more brazenly every day.
George, the rabid pavlov puppy, who cant stop following Turley around, has now posted that “antifa is just an idea”, 20 times in the last 2 days.
He can’t stop repeating himself. He tthinks that if he chants the lie often enough, it will become true.
Tell that to the poor citizens of Portland.
Buddhism focus is suffering. It has that in common with Roman Catholicism. .
Thinkitthrough, the Proud Boys have a hierarchy, a defined leadership a structure modeled after the military. They share an ideology based on white supremacism and anti-government sentiment.
Buddhism is a religion not an ideology.
“If they were not a group they would present themselves as ordinarily dressed people.”
According to what? They are ordinary people. Just as Communists, Marxists, Socialists, etc. They are also ordinary people. Some local groups may dress the same as the Proud Boys or may not even wear black to identify themselves. Some may be wearing normal clothing like everyone else.
This is the problem. So many on the right who cannot distinguish between fact and opinion and reality while failing at reading comprehension on a truly astounding scale and can’t figure out the differences between what ANTIFA and the Proud Boys.
President Trump and those on the right label anything contrary to Trump’s supporters as ANTIFA. Sometimes it’s Marxists, Communists, Socialists, or whatever the prevailing word is on that particuar day.
“Buddhism is a religion not an ideology.”
LMAO I just knew George was gonna pull that one out of his arse. He’ll say anything.
I·de·ol·o·gy
/ˌidēˈäləjē/
noun
1. Set of beliefs and values attributed to a person or group of people
Just stand there and DENY reality again, ya lame brained stooge,
All religions are ideologies. All ideologies are not religion.
Oh, and take special note of the words “group of people”.
Your Antifa soy boys are a group of people, just like Christians are, even when they dont go to church or have an organizational chart.
Deny it some more George. Its fun watching you hysterically repeat yourself.
..which TDS Troll is this new ‘X’ .. Dennis McIntyre? Gigi? or someone new..?. Interesting point is Humans invent Ideologies.. Ideologies don’t appear out of thin air…. the fact that ANTIFA Humans, the new ‘Brownshirts,’ think they are invisible is amusing and the fact they think they are anti-fascist when indeed they behave like fascists is pathetic…………….
X is not new. That name showed up about 2 weeks after George disappeared. He claims to not be George, but he answers to it everytime he is called by it. He, knows that we know that he is George, but remains too chickenshlt to admit it. George showed up exactly 2 weeks after Svelaz left, and claimed he wasn’t Svelaz, again, even though he made it obvious that he was. Same exact phrases, same MO, same references to the same cases that had previously been discussed.
He’s not as clever as Dennis, but he is just as ignorant and idiotic. He gets his opinions from the same sources and when the facts dont suit him, he literally just makes stuff up.
Looks like birthing boy George, the rabid pavlov puppy who follows Turley around like a lost soul, has come to repeat his rabid claims that Antifa is just an ideology.
What is Christianity, imbecile? you know, the people you like to whine and complain about in your fits of rage?
Why its an ideology!!! And people who practice it are called Christians. Doesn’t matter if they belong to a local church or have an organizational chart.
People who practice the Antifa religion are TERRORISTS.
And its rich that you’re claiming someone cant tell fact from fiction.
You just had to apologize for swallowing a fake story hook, line and sinker.
One of several you’ve lied about lately.
“Even Wray made the claim that ANTIFA is not a monolithic group.” That’s right, he CLAIMED they are not a monolithic group – at the exact same time he was hiding evidence while protecting both the Bidens and their Antifa terrorists from criminal prosecution.
But Wray is an even greater liar than you, GeorgeX. In his case, he lied to the extent her perjured himself and has now been referred for criminal prosecution a third time! With Merrick Garland no longer able to hide the Obama/Biden felons from prosecution, he may actually be indicted this time.
No worries GeorgeX – you know better than anybody else that no Democrat felon will ever be convicted at trial in Washington DC.
E pluribus unum
Well X,
Law enforcement is going to arrest the members of that ideology for the violent crimes they commit,
It is going to use all the other attributes that GROUPS have – shared communications, event planning, membership lists, social media, funding etc, to target those who conspired with those who actually committed violent crimes.
You claim that this will result ijn first amendment violations – HOW ?
I know this is hard for left wing nuts – but law enforcement chases down evidence of bad ACTS as well as the threads that connect them.
When a group of people all dressed simmilarly show up at the federal courthouse in portland every day to riot and some of them are arrested for their violent acts, the investigation includes how they coordinated, and their communications in doing so. Where that investigation exposes a conspiracy to commit violent acts, that means that all those involved – not just those who committed the act are part of the conspiracy.
The investigation will grow or shrink depending on what law enforcement finds.
If it does not establish planning of violence at some level, that becomes a dead end.
But where fore knowledge of violence is evident the investigation can continue to expand.
It can grow into membership lists, meeting attendance, social media groups, communications,
it can trace the flow of money.
All that is necessary for the investigation of criminal acts to expand to include all who provided material support to those criminal acts is the reasonable suspicion to continue the investigation and the probable cause need to get warrants.
So long as law enforcement follows the constitutional constraints for investigations, the first amendment is no more breached than it is when law enforcement seeks warrants for wiretaps on Mafia bosses.
You are free to believe there is no such thing as Antifa as an organization.
But your belief will not stop law enforcement from pursuing the evidence of organization that it finds.
WRONG again gorge, as usual
George, the rabid pavlov puppy, loves to contradict the dictionary. He does it at least 3 times a week.
“Professor Turley thinks ANTIFA is a group? ”
Group
/ɡro͞op/
noun
1.
a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together:
Where does it say they need an organizational chart or a leader, Svelaz?
The Federal government has CLASSED them together as terrorists. They will now CONSIDER them a group, as they hunt them down individually.
Go ahead George, DENY reality some more. Its hysterical.
When I told a motorcycle gang that their motorcycles were
pieces of crap, they immediately became a violent anti-free speech group.
Confucius say: “Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day.”
OT
Kristi Noem wants 15-20 million Mexicans, Latinos, etc. to self-deport.
I love her ambition.
If you self deport you are able to apply to come to the US legally.
If you are arrested by ICE and deported you will PERMANENTLY be barred from legal entry to the US.
The new neologism is: Crony-Terrorist Groups
The term “crony terrorism” is not a standard dictionary or academic term. It appears to be a neologism, or newly coined phrase, created by combining the distinct definitions of
cronyism and terrorism. Search results indicate that the two words are used separately and together in news and political commentary, but not as an established concept.
A reasonable interpretation of the phrase “crony terrorism” can be derived by combining the definitions of its component words:
Re: Cronyism: The practice of giving jobs and other favors to friends and associates, especially in politics, without regard for their qualifications.
Terrorism: The use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Therefore, “crony terrorism” can be interpreted as the use of violence and intimidation to achieve political aims by favoring friends, associates, or organizations. One example of this would be a corrupt or authoritarian government that protects and sponsors violent, non-state groups connected to the ruling class, while labeling those who oppose such practices as “terrorists”.
Cronyism is the practice of favoritism shown to friends or associates, especially in politics or business. It involves granting special privileges, jobs, or benefits based on personal connections rather than merit. Synonyms include nepotism, favoritism, and bias, and it can lead to corruption and undermine fair competition.
FWIW, I just bought a new laptop, or rather me and Klarna bought it. It is ON SALE at WalMart for $279. It’s an HP 15.6 inch, with a touch screen. 8 gig of ram, and a 256 gig ssd. Good machine:
Here is a link:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-15-6-inch-Windows-Touch-Laptop-Intel-Core-i3-N305-8GB-RAM-256GB-SSD-Moonlight-Blue/15840257186?classType=REGULAR&athbdg=L1100&adsRedirect=true
What happened to the Floyd blog? You should be very busy over there. I think I hear them calling you right now. Listen! You should look into that immediately.
I got a dropbox account today, and took pictures of Sarge and Puff No. 1 and Peanut. Sarge and Puff No. 1 are outside strays who hang out here. Peanut is my little barky dog. I went outside to sit on the porch, and feed the cats. And put out a bowl of dog food for the coons and possums. I also put out some bologna, generic fruit loops, and a half of a banana for the coons. OH!, and I also saved a little jumping spider from the water bowl! That makes two that I have saved. I was too late on another one. I could not figure out how to do CPR on him or her. They are cute little spiders, and all I have to do is stick my finger in the water bowl, and they will crawl out on my finger.
I also smoked two bowls of tobacco in my pipes.
Donald Trump will grace the cover of Time magazine. Trump the peacemaker.
Must be a bitter commie pill for them to swallow if they can’t portray him as Hitler this time….
Professor Turley,
Is white supremacy an organized group? Based on your twisted logic from this article is must be! You suggest that the existence of factions like Rose City Antifa makes Antifa writ large an organization. Does the existence of Proud Boys make white supremacy also an organization? Does the fact that individual white supremacists claiming their white supremacist beliefs make it suddenly an organization?
Of course not. What a terrible article, rife with a misquotation of Wray and a lack of anything resembling an logical, coherent argument. Shameful from a man of your stature.
That would be the white supremacist Proud Boys whose best choice to lead their white supremacy group was a Latino leader! Perhaps copying Obama’s friends at the black supremacist/anti-semetic Nation Of Islam, led by blacker than Obama Louis Farrakhan? (It’s not Obama’s fault he was born a light skinned mulatto; he renounced his childhood and early adult life of Rich White Privilege to run for office as a po’ black chil’ from the ghetto)
After all, after Democrats proclaimed that George Zimmerman was racist white Hispanic after he killed Trayvon Martin in self defense while Martin was trying to murder him, then the Latino led Proud Boys must be white supremacists due to their eagerness to offer recreational pugilism to the black clad Antifa fascists who specialized in gang attacks on unarmed single people they didn’t want to allow to speak.
If Proud Boys (or anyone else) fight fascist communists after they choose to dress head to toe in black, in the Democrat Borg, that means that they’re racists!
Which makes sense, because ICE and any other law enforcement who end up fighting violent black clad Antifa rioters assaulting them are also supposedly racist, according to Democrat Antifa psy ops mantra.
none of that ridiculous rant responded to the question I posed. Congrats for puking out some ignorant and irrelevant drivel.
And maybe you should read up on the complex relationship between Latino and white identity. That Venn Diagram doesn’t look like the one you envisage. Someone slept through history class.
He OWNED you. You are just too stupid to realize it.
“the complex relationship between Latino and white identity”
LMAO what a stooge
You didn’t pose a question: you posted Democrat fraudulent BS.
BS that was dependent on the Democrat version of racism and your general rule of thumb that anyone who opposes you commies must be racist and a white supremacist.
The Democrat Borg gave you the wrong address to do your Vaudeville Democrat Clown Show Theater. You should have put on your performance over at Bluesky.
+100
Someone is unfamiliar with the question mark. The English language is hard.
Don’t worry, you’ll figure it out eventually.
Anon 4:55 ……. Your 5-star projection is duly noted, as you’ve cornered the market on “irrelevant drivel.”
ATS – ideologies that you do not like are NOT relevant.
You rant about white supremecists.
Presuming there were significant actual white supremecists groups in the US today – which there are not,
They could NOT be targeted for advocating for white supremecy any more than communists could be targeted fo advocating for communism.
Ideology is NOT a crime. While there is much error in antifa’s ideology – soy boy idiots too stupid to grasp they are the actual brownshirts and fascists.
The Big deal about Antifa is NOT their ideology – it is their use of VIOLENCE – and especially violence targeting Govenrment, our institutions and law enforcement.
Fundimentally the proud boys are a male chauvanist organization (which is NOT the same as white supremecist) that takes pleasure in targeting Violent antifa soy boys. The proud boys do NOT pose any threat to our govenrment, our institutions or law enforcement. Nor do they appear to be engaged in any organized violence or crime beyond as vigilanties targeting Antifa Violence.
Most other supposedly white supremecist organizations are either entirely non-violence law abiding organizations that hold views those on the left do not like or white prison drug gangs – which are vastly outnumbered by non-white prison drug gangs and not in any consequential way different from other drug gangs.
The problem with Antifa is NOT their ideology – except to the extent that ideology justifies violence especially against govenrment and institutions,
The problem with antifa is their ACTUAL VIOLENCE.
We do not want the FBI targeting the catholic church or parents of public school kids or pro-life groups, any more than we want the FBI targeting communists, or white supremecists or antifascists.
We Want law enforcement targeting Crime – violence. And we ESPECIALLY want them targeting violence against govenrment institutions or ordinary people over political differences.
This violence is far more dangerous than drug dealers.
John Say,
“Presuming there were significant actual white supremecists groups in the US today – which there are not,
They could NOT be targeted for advocating for white supremecy any more than communists could be targeted fo advocating for communism.”
There is no “presuming” here. There ARE significant white supremacist groups in the US today. Your denial of their existence is a deliberate attempt to minimize the problem.
You’re trying to have it both ways because of your animosity towards anything regarding the “left”. The double standard you apply to everything speaks volumes about the disingenuousness of your arguments.
“ The problem with Antifa is NOT their ideology – except to the extent that ideology justifies violence especially against government and institutions,
The problem with antifa is their ACTUAL VIOLENCE.“
The problem for the right IS their ideology. They want to conflate their ideology with violence to justify cracking down on them for expressing it. Ironically it was the Proud Boys who are against government institutions and their penchant for violence. Jan 6. is a great example of right-wing ACTUAL VIOLENCE and that is why so many Jan 6ers were Proud Boys who were arrested and convicted of crimes until Trump pardoned or commuted their sentences.
The Trump administration WANTS to criminalize ANTIFA’s ideology in violation of the 1st amendment. Professor Turley tries hard to justify Trump’s approach towards ANTIFA while ignoring the fact that Trump is violating their free speech rights. Conflating an ideology with violence gives Turley and Trump AND you the justification to punish anyone who is labeled or associated with anything related to ANTIFA and violate their constitutional rights in the name of preventing violence. That is what Fascists do. The cognitive dissonance on the whole subject is amusing.
Show me where Professor Turely hurt you on this doll.
You conflate to confuse and your logic is ridiculous. White supremacy is not violently rioting. Are there white Supremacists organization? Yes. The Neo Nazis. The Skinheads. No one tried to deny it like the leftist idiots do AntiFa. Are they funded by maintenance conservatives like AntiFa is funded by Soros and Hoffman along with Democrats NGO’s? No.
Your arguments are childish and foolish. No one can take you seriously. Your comments are a joke. I know you want to make people upset but you only make laugh. I suggest you get some professional help. You don’t.have to live such a bitter life.
ROTFLMAO!!! Show me on this doll. . . Fantastic!
You proved my point. Just as there are white supremacist organizations, there are Antifa organizations like Rose City. But there is not one umbrella group.
Whether the ideology involves violent rioting is not dispositive as to its identification as a unified group.
Islamic fundamentalism involves violent rioting but it isn’t a group. There are many organizations that espouse the ideology but they operate separately. The same can be said of Antifa and white supremacy. This is not that complicated.
And all Islamic fundamentalists who practive violence are TERRORISTS. Which makes them a group of terrorists.
ATS
No one sees any point to your nonsense
First Ideology – DOES NOT MATTER.
While as people we correctly note that SOME ideologies are more prone to violence than others.
Islamic fundimentalism, and communists as an example.
It is NOT the ideology that matters.
If you think there is a large body of white supremecy in the US today – you are delusional.
But even if there were – SO WHAT ? That is not the business of govenrment.
To the extent that Antifa is an ideology – SO WHAT ? In the US citizens are free to rant about whatever looney beleifs they wish.
What matters is VIOLENCE.
The most protected form of speech in the US is political speech.
But the most dangerous form of violence is actually political violence.
The fact that political speech is properly so protected and political violence is properly so criminal, makes law enforcement difficult.
Except when they are on the right we routinely let slide minor violence at political protests – we arrest, and drop charges later, or often reduce charges – so long as the violence is not egregious, or it is not organized.
You rant about just exactly how orgainized Antifa or other groups are. That is merely a law enforcement issue.
Law enforcement should prosecute orginized violence – especially orgainzed political violence – as far as they can follow it.
If as you claim these groups are isolated islands in the ocean without coordination – then law enforcement can take down those groups that orchestrate orginaized political violence.
It should do so using the same means and methods it used against the Mafia, the KKK, and various orgainzed drug groups.
You rant about your beleifs regarding the structure of Antifa as if that is proven fact – or even relevant.
That no one should investigate or prosecute antifa because of your beleifs regarding their structure.
If all we have is a bunch of stupid individuals engaged in disorganized political violence then the prosecutions will stop with those individuals – but Law Enforcement is free look at the comunications of those who committed the violence for evidence of criminal conspiracy and use that to further investigate including obtaining warrants
for finances, and further communications. If the criminal conspiracy dies at little distance from the perpitrators – so be it. If it extends accross the entire country – that is what Law Enforcement should trace and prosecute.
Those of you on the left beleive this is just individuals engaged in lone wolf violence – and likely some of it is.
But the rest of us see that it is likely that there is organized political violence by the left.
That should not be surprising – the one thing the left does FAR BETTER than the right is organize.
It is one of the core ideological differences between the left and right and it is Why the left is so violently opposed tot he concept of american exceptionalism.
Because the left is NOTHING if not organized, while the Right is at its core about INDIVIDUALS.
That is why there are so few right wing protests. To a very large extent the right wants govenrment to leave them alone.
John Say,
“First Ideology – DOES NOT MATTER.”
It matters to the Trump administration and it shows. They absolutely want to criminalize ANTIFA’s ideology and conflate it as violence. The Trump administration WANTS to punish dissent and ideas they don’t like. Remember AG Pam Bondi once stated hate speech will be prosecuted as a crime.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,…secure the Blessings of Liberty TO OURSELVES and OUR POSTERITY….”
– Preamble, 1789
_____________________
Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795, 1798, 1802
United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” March 26, 1790
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof….
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution [of slavery]. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land. [Should freed blacks be made] politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this, and [even] if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of white people will not … We can not, then, make them equals.”5
Abraham Lincoln, Peoria, Illinois, October 16, 1854
Why is it always “White Supremacy” and never red supremacy, brown supremacy, yellow supremacy, black supremacy, etc.?
It is self-evident.
The democrat agenda works feverishly to control the message ……… and it is notoriously racist and anti-white.
There absolutely are supremacist groups that espouse the superiority of other races. The Southern Poverty Law Center – not typically thought of as a bastion of conservatism – labels the Nation of Islam as a black supremacist group.
Hindutva is an ideology that believes in the superiority of Hindus.
The Asian Mens Rights Movement promotes Asian supremacist views.
There are others. Your attempt to be cheeky simply shows your ignorance of the world.
That’s why they’re all here in America, leeching as parasites on white supremacists.
So what ? And please do not cite SPLC as a source. Everything is white supremecy to them.
Worse still they have had their own horrible internal scandals – racism, embezzelment.
Regardless – this is the US you can espouse any idiotic ideology you wish.
What you can not do is use VIOLENCE to pursue that ideology.
White supremacy presumably means that English speakers ideas from centuries spoken and written have produced civilization? Apparently you have Stalin?
If you can find the same organizations structures, the same coordinated communications, the same transfers of funding and the same planning
AND most importantly you can connect it with criminal acts of violence – you are free to go after any supposedly white supremacist groups.
Nearly every white prison gang in the US is “white supremecists” – but the reality is they are no different from other prison gangs and drug gangs.
No one is suggesting that law enforcement should ignore organized violence or crime by ANY group – without regard to ideology.
But the fact that a group holds views that you dislike is IRRELEVANT – regardless of whether they are an ideology or a group.
What is relevant is whether they do or do not commit crimes, and what types of crimes they commit.
Absolutely law enforcement should go after drug dealers.
But those specifically directing violence at our institutions – at government, at law enforcement, at our courts, are a more significant threat.
*. In this case, Goldman may just be the slow and dumb one in the litter.
In the hierarchy of lives this one appears to be instinct as feed and breed. Some are confused about the breed part. That leaves feed.
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune…
Professor Turley,
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ap-top-news-elections-james-comey-politics-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e
Wray in 2020 explicitly said that Antifa is an ideology not an organization.
Heck, your own Fox News article includes the full quote. He clearly states that Antifa is not an organization
The very words following “Antifa is a real thing” are “it’s not a group or organization. It’s a movement or an ideology….”
If it is NOT a group, it cannot be labeled a terrorist GROUP.
Yet you mislead your readers into selectively choosing the first part of the quote to make it sound like Wray “debunks” Goldman’s claim that there is no organization.
That is a pretty shameful misinformation. If one of your students did the same thing with a case citation, how would you grade their essay?
They are a terrorist group. What do terrorist groups do for security? Operate in small disconnected cells as to not compromise other groups. But they all have the same goal: to fight against anyone they deem as “fascists.” Over throw the government and install their own version of some socialist, Marxist, communist government. As we have seen by their own words (i.e. “Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook,” and they even sell antifa merchandise to fund their domestic terrorism) and actions that is their end goal.
I am not a member of any “group” but I am still a Constitution loving American if that can be called a “group.”
Every Constitution loving American should reject what antifa stands for as it is the total opposite of what America was founded on.
Terrorist groups with splinter cells still have a leadership structure. Al qaeda still had Bin Laden. Nothing of the sort exists here.
This is equivalent to labeling white supremacy a terrorist group because there are a number of groups like the Proud Boys and Boogaloo Boys that have some semblance of communication and similar but not identical beliefs and goals.
Do you think white supremacy is a terrorist group? Islamic fundamentalism?
Wrong.
Antfia operates just like al-Qaeda but even more so as a domestic terrorist group as they do not have a leadership structure. At least that we know of. With luck, the Trump admin, the FBI, DOJ and other agencies will follow the money and go after them, dismantle their dark money, NGOs and they will be left impotent.
I think antifa is a greater threat to national security than white supremacy by far. Just look at their actions and words. We see them in numbers in deep Blue cities like Portland, Chicago, Seattle, actively committing acts of violence against LEOs. And we see leftist Democrats supporting antifa and their acts of violence and lawlessness.
So who is the Bin Laden equivalent of antifa if it operates “just like al-Qaeda?”
I didn’t ask whether white supremacy or antifa is “a greater threat to national security.” I asked whether you would label white supremacy, an ideology akin to anti-fascism, a “terrorist group.” Still waiting on that answer.
It does not matter. Antifa is a domestic terrorist group. The Trump admin, the FBI, the DOJ, the IRS and other LEOs should go after them as a terrorist group. And every Constitutional loving American should be ready and willing to fight against the domestic terrorists of antifa. They need to be put down as a terrorist group.
ATS – none of this is about ideology – you constantly pretend that it is.
I do not care if Antifa is NAMBLA – what matters is not what they think, it is not what they beleive, it is what they DO.
The same is true of white supremecists and white suprmecist orgainzations – if there actually are very many today – and please do not cite SPLC, or of various islamic fundimentalist groups.
What they BELEVIE does not matter.
It is their acts of Violence that matter, and the extent to which those acts are organized we expect law enforcement to take down the entire organization.
“Do you think white supremacy is a terrorist group? Islamic fundamentalism?”
The latter yes.
The prior, not until they start acting like Antifa and Islamic fundamentalists.
I think you are too focused on the word group and not enough on the word terrorist.
You keep starting at the wrong place.
Ideology is irrelevant.
Violence and particularly political violence is.
If there was a well organized white supremecist organization throughout the US that was purely ideological – that would be no more business of the govenrment or law enforcement that those shilling for the vile ideology of communism.
What is relevant is violence.
What matters NEXT is the extent to which that violence is organized.
You are free to beleive against the odds that Antifa has no organization that law enforcement can not follow and/or that that orgainzation has no involvement in violence.
The Biden DOJ threw the vast resources of the US govenrment to establishing proof of planned and organized violence by the right and right wing groups on J6 and despite massive abuses of constitutional rights hiding exculpatory evidence still never came up with evidence of anything beyond planning a protest sufficient to convince anyone outside the left wing loons on DC juries.
Do you really think Antifa can survive the same law enforcement scrutiny ?
I would note that what you claim to be the structure of Antifa – orginazed as small independent cells for the purpose of precluding law enforcement from making connections – is itself proof of criminal intent.
Organization engaged in lawful purposes do not need those kinds of disorganized structures.
I don’t like what Antifa stands for but that doesn’t mean those with anti fascist beliefs should be silenced. It’s worse than McCarthyism. At least there was a loose political party involved with communists.
Here there isn’t even that. It is anti-American to suppress ideas because we don’t like them. Period.
“I don’t like what Antifa stands for but that doesn’t mean those with anti fascist beliefs should be silenced.”
Your fraudulent attempts to sail the Sea Of Deceit in your false flag Democrat warship failed right there. The terrorist group Antifa by their own actions and proclamations show they are the most fascist group still operating in America. You want their violence in attempting to prevent free speech contrary to what they want allowed to be accepted as “anti-fascist”.
What we have in reality is yet another instance of Democrats lying; channeling of their own sins, desires, and malfeasance on those they hate and wish to destroy.
And this is a direct and mortal communist enemy of the American thesis, freedom and self-reliance, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, actual Americans, and America.
so lets address that. at every opportunity to show balance, the so called equity of a stronger more accommodating “democracy” HOW has antifa represented itself?
put aside the trivial complaints about using the right terror groups labels, or the what about ism.
HOW HAS ANTIFA REPRESENTED ITSELF?
violently, lawlessly, with zero contrition..it declares violence and insists on it.
Why do members of antifa feel comfortable being violent and terrorizing people, cities, fire bombing cars and buildings destroying billion upon billions of dollars of value? why do they show no restraint?
it is because THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT ANTIFA IS ALL ABOUT.
anarchy.
so if you want to feel differently and win an argument just replace terror groups with anarchists. the same kinds of violence an scale of it from any league or assemble of like minded anarchists are by legal and technical definition;;
terrorists.
you were misled by Turley. He makes a few points but he misses to break it down so that very simple minded people can get out of their own way and see the bigger picture. whether these collection of people even bother to belong to or are associated in any way with some kind of official membership is of little importance…in the bigger picture.
you don’t have to prove they are hyper violent and that they do enjoy getting together to ruin a city, roughed up the cops, set fires loot and steal. you don’t have to prove any of that.
they have put it on full display. the didn’t plan to do these things during some post football game that didn’t go there way. this was not some long term Animus between community people who just decided to show up and start fighting. these were people who KNEW that they could gather along with like minded violent anarchists across the spectrum and under the collective action of the antifa movement, they could wreck havoc and chaos and the likelihood that they would be arrested would be close to zero, unless they were really stupid. the mob of antifa protects each of these anarchists.
labeling the entire group and each specific person who committed these mob anarchist antifa crimes as a terrorists organization is a very smart thing to do from a policy standpoint and from a law enforcement and safety aspect. These people must understand the stakes are much higher the next time they might be thinking about burning down a city, robbing, harming police, advocating for the death of people whom they simply do not agree.
these people have shown us who they are. They have earned the honor of being a terror organization.
it is just that simple.
God Bless America
No one is looking to silence the expression of Antifa beleifs – though frankly I have seen VERY LITTLE effort by Antifa to “express beleifs” – what they do is ACT VIOLENTLY.
You rant that Antifa is anti fascist – and yet they are out there behaving like little fascists and fighting against the Rule of law, and the efforts to disempower govenrment.
Like most of the left they are not capable of supporting their ideas in debate – partly because they have no consistent ideas, just a collection of disorganized grevances.
Reardless, From Turley through the most extreme right person here Antifa is being targeted for ACTS OF VIOLENCE
John Say,
“No one is looking to silence the expression of Antifa beleifs – though frankly I have seen VERY LITTLE effort by Antifa to “express beleifs” – what they do is ACT VIOLENTLY.”
The Trump administration is looking at silencing the expression of ANTIFA beliefs. They are literally doing that by threatening to punish anyone associated with ANTIFA. They absolutely want to silence ANTIFA by claiming they are acting violently without proof.
“You rant that Antifa is anti fascist – and yet they are out there behaving like little fascists and fighting against the Rule of law, and the efforts to disempower govenrment.”
They ARE anti-fascists. You don’t understand what a fascist is and it shows. Just like so many on the right cannot make the distinction between a Marxist, a Communist, and a Socialist. Rather than make a distinction those on the right conflate all three purely out of intellectual laziness and ignorance.
ANTIFA only shows up when real Fascists like the Proud Boys, and like-minded groups show up at protests. Violence ensues when ANTIFA encounters real fascists like the Proud Boys. The rest are random anarchists causing chaos within peaceful protests and those on the right who cannot make distinctions label anything violent as ANTIFA because it’s the easiest way to label anything regarding the left and the narrative used to justify cracking down on dissent.
“Like most of the left, they are not capable of supporting their ideas in debate – partly because they have no consistent ideas, just a collection of disorganized grevances.”
Projecting again John? You’re describing absolutely what the right does daily. Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.
“Regardless, From Turley through the most extreme right person here Antifa is being targeted for ACTS OF VIOLENCE”
Wrong. ANTIFA is being targeted for its ideology. The right is using the pretext of violence as an excuse to target their ideology and violate their 1st amendment rights. That you are trying so hard to emphasize “acts of violence” means you and those on the right are using it as an excuse to crack down on dissent by using violence as a pretext. You can label anyone you don’t like as ANTIFA and that is the point.
Do you at least agree that Turley misled readers with the Wray quote? Did you click on the link in the article? Shameful.
Do you agree that your entire post was deliberately intended to mislead readers about the terrorist group Antifa?
Do you agree that Wray’s record is one of hiding the serial criminality of both Antifa and the Bidens – concealing it, rather than prosecuting it?
Do you agree that your claim that Antifa’s actions are “anti-fascist” is a lie? A lie you put on full display as we remember them over the last sixteen years engage in violent fascism to silence free speech and terrorizing people, coercing them into deciding it is better to say nothing than be attacked by Antifa terrorists?
You agree with all of that? Shameful indeed.
But then, the apparatchiks sent here by the Soviet Democrat Borg have no morals, no character – nothing that would result in shame being a deterrent to their daily appearances here.
Let me quote Yuri Bezmenov, on Liberals: “Some of these jaybirds are as dumb as a bag of hammers! You can kick them in the a$$, and they will have a headache! All you can do with them is shoot them or pack them off to a potato farm in Siberia.
UF – while your perceptions are likely accurate and shared by most people, this whole debate is mostly pointless.
Law Enforcement should investigate patterns of violence and it should continue those investigations and prosecutions through whatever organization it finds.
As with myriads of other issues – wise people can determine early on what the odds of the outcome will be.
Many of us understood how close to zero the odds of Trump colluding with Russia where.
Or how low the odds that the Hunter Biden laptop was russian disinformation was
or how low the odds that Covid did not come from a lab were
or how low the odds that Joe Biden was competent were
or ….
You, and I and Turley and others here grasp how low the odds that antifa is NOT a criminal organization are.
If X and ATS wish to beleive against the odds – that is just more evidence of their lack of critical thinking and intelligence.
And we see that everyday.
Why would inability to accurately assess the odds regarding antifa be a surprise. ?
John Say, Antifa is not a criminal organization full stop. It never was. It’s what you WANT it to be so you justify criminalizing the ideology. That’s it. That’s all it is. It’s a deliberate targeting and use of an ideology to paint anyone who expresses dissent against the Trump administration which is ironically what Fascism is. Stephen is a fascist by definition. Fascists love to accuse others of being fascists because fascists love to lie about their true nature.
“If it is NOT a group, it cannot be labeled a terrorist GROUP.”
You think you have any credibility to propose your definitions and your rules?
Maybe over at Bluesky or the New York Times and CNN, venerated for pushing the felonious Russia Dossier perjury for so many years. But not here, and certainly not with your attempts to give Wray credibility that neither of you possess.
Tell us why we should believe Wray wasn’t also lying to protect the Democrats’ street thugs in Antifa that he was allowing to riot and rampage for almost eight years, just like he hid the criminality of the Biden’s and former FBI Directors and agents for the same eight years?
Wray’s credibility at this point is just about the same as yours and the Democrat criminals that Wray pimped for and covered.
Why do you presume these are MY definitions or rules. These are the definitions identified by the experts that Turley has identified, i.e., former FBI Director Wray.
I have no idea where that second to last paragraph is coming from? I can’t tell you why Wray also is lying about his belief that the Earth is round to protect his hidden support for flat earthers, either. Baseless conspiracy theories …
Convince readers here why they should give Wray any more credibility than you have earned, after eight years of Wray hiding rather than prosecuting serial felonies committed both by the Bidens and you Democrats’ Antifa terrorist storm troopers.
Explain to readers here why they should give Wray credibility after watching him lie to and deceive both the American people and Congress?
This is the same former FBI Director Wray who has been referred for prosecution for perjury.
No worries that Wray will actually be convicted in Washington DC, even if DC Grand Juries don’t give him the same pass they gave the rest of the Democrat FBI criminals referred for prosecution since 2016.
“If it is NOT a group, it cannot be labeled a terrorist GROUP.”
Discounting the idiocy of what you just said, if “IT” is not a group. then why do you care? By your logic, thin air may just as well have been labeled terrorist group.
You keep ranting meaningless nonsense.
Law Enforcement STARTS with the criminal ACT.
The various acts of violence against law enforcement, journalists covering Antifa, our political institutions.
If investigates the individual acts of violence and searches for patterns and connections.
And it follows the evidence obtained up through whatever orgainization there is.
If you beleive that Antifa is all just spontaneous disorganized political violence – then all investigations will end quickly – there will be no inciting and organizing communications to trace, no money.
Most of us are wise enough to grasp several things – First left wing nuts ALWAYS organize.
The whimpy members of Antifa are incapable of acting on their own, then NEED the connection to a supportive organization. Again this is a fundimental difference between the right and left.
Next when we see pattersn of similar conduct – often conduct that requires significant funding – there is one or many orgainizations behind it.
But the differences in our views are irrelevant.
Law enforcement will find organized violence or not as it investigates and prosecutes.
its worth noting that terror cells operated for many years using the same veneer of ideology.
it would take years before the United States, specifically Congress and the FBI to realize that normal rules of order could not be applied to these hyper violent actors who are non uniformed, represent no particular state or agency or group. that reality set in when it became quite clear that the entire strategy of the terror cells collectively referred to as al qaeda had designed this opague legal veneer to throw off otherwise proper thinking and acting leaders in the United States. these former terror cell actors understood there is a fundamental Achilles in the United States. We hesitate against naming a person of a group as terrorist. And we hesitate for the same reasons we have hesitated about the definition and application of treason. We have a bold and unique history based fundamentally on change by war. Revolutionary war. That sense of right and wrong was being exploited by al qaeda and it was also our self induced surrender to terms related to free speech, property rights, liberty, the rights to protest and to assemble. Al qaeda and other terror groups understood this weakness of our heritage that still exists within our social order…how we make judgement about someone who is opposed to the USA.
there is a point when you MUST establish new rules that allow you to conduct legal law enforcement against people and organizations who have attempted to exploit the loopholes of your justice system, your law enforcement, you intelligence gathering assets. And that is exactly what happened. A few good men and women stood up and said, ENOUGH.
declare these people as terror organizations. And then modify the law enforcement rules of engagement so we can actually do something about this hyperviolent group.
now is the time to reexamine that same approach and take the gloves off and go after every single person who committed these acts of criminal conduct, whether by relation to a name of a distinct terror groups name OR NOT. that’s how we did it before and we should not be shy to realize that this is the ONLY way to take these vermin down and put them in prison, for a very long time.
tldr: I don’t have to prove your intentions were to demonstrate the agency of an organization. That is not longer required. I simply have to prove that your crimes were motivated by a radicalization that is aimed at anarchy and the destruction of life and property. I don’t have to prove what your expected to happen when you did these things. I only have to prove that you did these things and that your actions are criminal and specially criminally terror related.
its is good that we continue to improve and expand on the definitions and scope of what makes a terror actor. Because it going to get much much worse. there be monsters.
God Bless America
“Professor Turley, Wray in 2020 explicitly said that Antifa is an ideology not an organization.”
Commie: Wray explicitly worked to hide the criminality of the Bidens and his previous FBI Directors who both repeatedly perjured themselves to FISA courts and Congress. Both during the Trump presidency and then the Biden presidency. These days we hear your fellow commies having a Midol Moment as they fear that Wray will be the next former FBI Director to be indicted for perjury.
Tell us why we should believe Wray wasn’t also lying to protect the Democrats’ street thugs in Antifa that he was allowing to riot and rampage, just like he hid the criminality of the Biden’s and former FBI Directors and agents?
Wray’s credibility at this point is just about the same as yours and the Democrat criminals that Wray pimped for and covered.
WRAY was Turley’s expert on this, not mine.
He didn’t identify a single expert source other than Wray to support his evidence-free claim that antifa is an organization. And he completely misstates what Wray actually said, which was the OPPOSITE of what he claimed.
CAN YOU FIND A SINGLE EXPERT SOURCE THAT TURLEY CITES TO ABOVE TO SUPPORT HIS CLAIM OTHER THAN WRAY?
Your rebuttal is “uh duh dup, they dont have an organizational chart” You deserve no ground.
Professor Turley devoted one single line to Wray. The focus of that line was that Antifa actually existed – doing so in response to Goldmann’s claim they do not exist.
He didn’t proclaim Wray, who hid Antifa and Biden criminality every day he was in office, to be an expert on what is and what isn’t a terrorist. YOU want to introduce that – it isn’t good enough for you that Turley agrees with you that Antifa thugs shouldn’t be designated as domestic terrorists.
Your response was to drop your guts in the usual Democrat fashion, playing a Karen because professor Turley didn’t go on to include other comments made by the unindicted felon Wray that would help you defend Antifa terrorists.
You probably would be equally outraged at anyone simply calling them criminal thugs.
Are you so upset because of that set of Antifa combat black jammies still hanging in your closet after your 2020 Election Campaign Of Mostly Peaceful Rioting, Pillaging, Looting, Arson And Murder insurrection?
If we dealt with black clad and masked violent thugs here with the 5.56 solution, exactly as we did over in Afghanistan, you really would have a serious reason to be quaking in fear.
However, that isn’t the law over here in CONUS. And as long as you cowards are smart enough to confine your violent rioting to Democrat ran large cities, you can confidently feel safe that your violence won’t be met by equal and greater violence from those you attack.
If you or any of your fellow Democrat Antifa terrorists ever decide to advertise you’ll take appointments to make house calls, I’ll be happy to give you my address in Montana to come here and try your luck and see how FAFO works out for you here.
If I’m not home when you show up; don’t worry, you won’t have made the trip in vain. My wife and every other biological woman around here knows how to deal with violent Democrat soy boys dressed in black man jammies.
Antifa should be treated to the same outcome as the British at Yorktown, the Mexicans or Latinos after The Alamo, the Indians after Custer’s reinforcements arrived, and the Japanese after Okinawa.
Wray was deep in the effort to subvert and overthrow the president. Wray was born and raised on the 7th Floor and most certainly knew about the attempted coup against Trump.
Ideologies have organizations.
White Supremecy is an ideology, the KKK is an organization.
Antifa is both, but what is more important is that it engages in political violence.
And it is that violence that requires law enforcement to target it.
And to pursue whatever organization there is as far as it goes.
And we KNOW that it goes pretty far – the left wants us to beleive that a pattern of political violence is NOT evidence of organization – but it is.
The KKK was brought down by SPLC before it become corrupt by establishing that the pattern of political violence was fostered by the organization.
It would be interesting to see how many of the baby boomer professors were affiliated with the radical groups of the 1960s-70s when they were young, such as SDS, Yippe, Underground Weathermen, Black Panthers, etc.
So many went to university to delay being drafted so stayed on for graduate studies.
These are not organic protests by citizens. They are organized agitators, many of whom are thugs. I am glad the DOJ and FBI are putting their full force into tracking the money.
https://x.com/KellyScaletta/status/1977769874714677683
It sure would-be nice if Dick Cheney “wearing his Stetson” along with his little girl Liz coming out and giving President Trump an “atta boy” for his success in the Gaza Treaty.
Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson might also want to congratulate President Trump. You remember that it was Rex that said DJT was dumber that a “bag of hammers”.
Stetson??? Rex??? OH! Rex Stetson! A gay guy playing a straight guy, playing a gay guy! Pillow Talk, with Rock Hudson and Doris Day! I loved that movie! The plot, from Wiki:
Jan Morrow is an interior decorator in New York City. She lives alone and claims to be happy when questioned on that subject by her drunken housekeeper, Alma. The only irritant in her life is the party line that she shares with Brad Allen, a Broadway composer and playboy who lives in a nearby apartment building. She cannot obtain a private phone line for her business, which she runs from home, because the telephone company has been overwhelmed by recent demand for new phone lines.
Jan and Brad, who have only ever “met” on the telephone, develop a feud over the use of the party line. Brad constantly uses the phone to chat with one young woman after another, singing to each of them an “original” love song supposedly written just for her, though he only changes the name or language he sings in. Jan needs the line for work and tries to make him more considerate. Brad suggests that the single Jan is jealous of his popularity and has a problem in ‘the bedroom department’. He charms the telephone inspector who is sent to investigate Jan’s complaint. Later, Brad and Jan agree to share the phone line on alternate half hours.
One evening in a nightclub, Brad sees Jan dancing and learns who she is. Attracted to her, he fakes an accent and invents a new persona: Rex Stetson, a wealthy Texan rancher. He succeeds in wooing Jan, in part because he has Brad make insinuations that he can then work to Rex’s favour. For example, Brad suggests Rex will stop by his hotel room on their date and try to seduce her; when Rex does this but only shows Jan the view, she thinks he is a perfect gentleman. When Jan brags to Brad about this, he suggests Rex may be gay. This leads Jan to question Rex about his attraction to her, thereby allowing him to kiss her.[8]
[you have to watch the movie to see how it all ends] But here is a scene:
Plus, this scene:
One last scene. The singer in the night club knows who he is!
Oh, please build a blog.
Without me, you would have never made the connection between Rex and Stetson! You are welcome!