The gay community in Manhattan are denouncing a new campaign by the New York Police Department targeting the gay community and adult video stores. Men like Robert Pinter, 53, say that they were enticed by offers of consensual sex in the store (perfectly legal) and were then told on the way to their car that the man wanted to give them some money afterward — followed immediately with an arrest. City Council Speaker Christine Quinn has denounced the arrests as abusive.
Pinter’s arrest came in October at the Blue Door Video store in the East Village. Here is how he described it to the media: “I was approached by a handsome Asian guy who was about half my age,” Pinter recalled. “He asked whether I wanted to have sex. … On the way out, he very suddenly said to me, ‘Oh, I want to pay you $50.’” He was then allegedly hit by a swarm of arresting officers.
The NYPD has arrested 27 men for prostitution — that is twice the average number. Notably, these arrests were then used as a basis for seeking to close the stores, which have been the subject of complaints by local citizens. The use of the arrests to justify the closure adds to the suspicion that these may be manufactured violations. There is also the problem that the arrested individuals generally have no prostitution violations in their background. Two-thirds are 42 years old or older.
It is difficult to believe that New York has run out of serious crimes to investigate. There is obviously much room for a city council investigation into the motives and means for an operation of this size.
For the full story, click here.
Doesn’t money have to exchange hands first?
I mean anyone could offer someone sex and say “Oh I’ll pay you for your time”. But wouldn’t money have to exchange hands first? Kind of like a drug deal?
Sally,
Money changing hands isn’t usually the key. I say usually because I don’t know all state’s various laws. It’s usually offer and acceptance to keep it in contract language. The crime is, after all, called solicitation – the OFFER to sell sex.
This looks like just pure discrimination and entrapment. And by the sound of it, being done as a budgetary goal. You have to have enough arrests to justify that ever growing budget!
Prostitution should be legalized and controlled, as should drugs. Police Vice Squads in the end corrupt police practice and lead to stuff like this. Things such as this are perpetuated by phony “moralists,” who prefer to elevate sexuality and personal pleasure into the major sins. It is easier for these “moralists” to decry crimes of the flesh and pleasure, than to come out against the major sins of avarice, greed, fraud and killing in the name of the State.
As the regular visitor here who has the most difficulty understanding and ‘accepting’ homosexuality and all of the associated issues, the NYPD is entrapping these people. What’s next, using entrapment to get rid of people in the neighborhood attending a certain religious institution because of their outlandish “beliefs” in a silly god-manlike apparition? Even as an atheist, I would oppose those police actions against the religious just as I oppose the NYPD’s actions targeting homosexuals, although I would just as soon that Blue Door-type stores never existed. If they are not violating the law, then leave the patrons alone to exercise their liberties regardless of how objectionable others and I consider their personal behavior.
FFLeo,
You are a true conservative. Your comments should be studied by
“conservative wannabees” to understand that there really is a sound philosophical basis to conservatism. As an old time Lefty, who has some disagreements with your views, I nevertheless admire your point of view. It is consistent, logical and one that should be heard in debate in a democratic society, so that we can find consensus using all available ideas. While I am of the left I don’t believe in doctrinaire responses, based on following some party line. We can’t maintain a pluralistic society without the ability to pragmatically deal with the problems that face us. To paraphrase Emerson: ” A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” People of all places on the spectrum of political thought should heed those words.
Unfortunately, in today’s world the ability to keep one’s mind open is fast losing ground. Because of this I appreciate your comments all the more.
FFLEO,
What Mike said. Thanks again for your valuable contributions.
Mike:
“To paraphrase Emerson: ” A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” To paraphrase Emerson: ” A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.[...]” People of all places on the spectrum of political thought should heed those words.
*********
Totally in your corner, but the whole quote adds a bit:
“…adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divine.”
“Rut thinking” is what distinguishes these law and order types. How creative was this “sting?”
After 8 years of Bush, America just needs to go out and get laid…
And in swoops whoolie with some practical advice! I, for one, intend to take it.
What is particularly galling about this and many other similar stories is it highlights how insane our “justice” system is. This is a waste of police time and taxpayer money. Police should help the many people who are facing actual danger. They should investigate white collar crime. There are limited resources, why are they used on this and busting people for smoking pot? I don’t know if anyone got to hear the almost unbelieveable testimony about Bernie Madoff’s scam. Here’s a small out-take:
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Harry Markopolos, a former financial executive who tried to blow the whistle on accused swindler Bernard Madoff, will tell lawmakers he feared for the safety of his family when U.S. securities regulators ignored evidence in the case, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Harry Markopolos, a former financial executive who tried to blow the whistle on accused swindler Bernard Madoff, will tell lawmakers he feared for the safety of his family when U.S. securities regulators ignored evidence in the case, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.
“There was an abject failure by the regulatory agencies we entrust as our watchdog,”… Markopolos said he gave evidence to the SEC’s office in Boston beginning in 2000 and resubmitted the evidence several times over a period of nine years.
“Because nothing was done, I became fearful for the safety of my family until the SEC finally acknowledged, after Madoff had been arrested, that it had received credible evidence of Madoff’s Ponzi scheme several years earlier,”
This is just crazy. This man feared for the safety of his family? White collar crime gets pretty down and dirty. Where is law enforcement? Why is the IRS dedicated to auditing the lower middle class and below when we’ve just seen 4 prominant people admit to tax fraud (I mean “mistakes”)? Why will no one hold the past administration to account for war crimes but they’re all over smoking pot? Something is insane about this entire system. We need to change our law enforcement priorities and system of justice pronto.
Mespo,
Thank you for the remainder of the quote. I wasn’t aware of it, but it further raises Emerson in my esteem and further impresses me with the breadth of your knowledge.
Jill and Patty?
How about a female perspective to the legalizing prostitution argument? If you’ve ever heard George Carlin’s take on it, you know mine, but I’d be interested in hearing what you ladies have to say on the issue.
Hello Buddha,
Women’s views run the gammit. I thought I’d link up to groups who take very different views of prostitution:
1. COYOTE, or Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics, is an American sex worker activist organization. COYOTE’s goals include the decriminalization (as opposed to the legalization) of prostitution, pimping and pandering, as well as the elimination of social stigma concerning sex work as an occupation.
Though it is frequently described as a prostitutes’ rights group, COYOTE’s mission includes advocating for all varieties sex workers of all genders, including strippers, phone sex operators and adult film performers. COYOTE provides counseling and legal referrals for sex workers, and assistance in leaving sex work for different careers.”
(wikipedia)
2. WHISPER–http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/factsheet.html
This link may be instructive as well. I can’t get the other link to come in correctly.
http://action.web.ca/home/catw/readingroom.shtml?sh_itm=46413d9acb7e9322a28f1df36d75637c&AA_EX_Session=249dd51bf02b1beceb5793addfdbe1dc
Mike S, Buddha et al.
You both, and the other regulars, posit reasonable arguments that entice me to continue returning here. I almost quit because of the Spam.
I trust that Professor Turley will respect good debaters and debate, continue to allow strong—although reasoned—rebuttals, regardless of ideologies, but that he will quickly delete the irrelevant junk and its authors.
FFLEO,
I’m very glad you decided to stay with this blog. I always value your opinions and you seem like a lot of fun also!
FFLEO,
Keep on coming back. The place wouldn’t be the same without you.
Fed
You’ve been sorely missed. Step around the irrelevant junk like you would manure.
Jill,
The links on prostitution were good. Not ever having resorted to the profession in my life and being a long time feminist, I nevertheless can understand the need for it. I know for a fact that my father utilized a call girl after my mother’s death, not wanting to get seriously involved in another relationship. There are uses for the profession as practiced by both females and males.
When the profession is made illegal is when the problems arise. Exploitation becomes profitable and prohibition impossible. This is the effect when religious moralists try to enforce their views of sexuality upon the rest of us. Their most common tactic is that they do it in defense against exploitation of children. This argument is useful for them against sexuality, films, literature and thought. There have been quite a few people who have argued that this is so important to their anti-sex agenda because they seek to ban perceived weaknesses in themselves. I ascribe that need to many on that side of the fence, but I would add the will to power and control as another strong motivation. Finally, motivationally we can’t forget that by defining sin in only sexual terms, the sins of greed decried by Jesus, the Hebrew Prophets and Islam can be downplayed and ignored. This allows the religionist to cozy up to the powers that be.
Mike S.
I am not for criminalizing prostitution but I think it is wrong for one person to buy another person. Today a report came out on the BBC that prostitution has increased among the poor because of economic hard times. I am enclosing a very good article from a small local paper. I know some of the young girls involved in this story. This is the norm for prostitution (or it’s much worse). I wanted to include opposing points of views because many women and men do support it. I do not, not for sexual reasons, but for reasons found in the article.
http://www.toledocitypaper.com/view_article.php?id=2142&highlight=prostitution
In my work I ran up against a lot of the ills that go with prostitution and was sickened by them. You are also correct in saying that it has a devastating effect on the poor and that poverty spurs recruitment. As I’ve also inferred it has never personally appealed to me and I view it with some distaste.
When it comes to affecting the poor so will organ selling gain growth in the years to come. The solution is the eradication of poverty, which is not only possible, but also desirable for the whole of society. When it comes to prostitution the human race coming to maturity in viewing sexuality and overcoming ridiculous religious biases against it, would also reduce demand.
In the end though prostitution needs to be legalized, in my opinion, because you can’t effectively prohibit it. If that is true, than the best we can do is have it controlled from a health and anti-exploitation standpoint and hope that we grow enough in the future to find healthier options to deal with our sexual needs.
Mike S.
“[Y]ou can’t effectively prohibit it.”
That’s the whole kit right there. It’s the world’s oldest profession, even older than agriculture. “Hey, Og! I’ll give you a rub and a tug for that antelope leg.” Or conversely, “I’ll give you an antelope leg for a rub and a tug.” It’s not going anywhere anytime soon. We might as well mitigate any negative effects as much as possible and get out of the way.
Mike,
I really agree that going all out to do the possible, eliminate poverty , would be a very good pursuit. Here is another problem that arises due to poverty:
“As international adoptions have flourished, so has evidence that babies in many countries are being systematically bought, coerced, and stolen away from their birth families. Nearly half the 40 countries listed by the U.S. State Department as the top sources for international adoption over the past 15 years — places such as Belarus, Brazil, Ethiopia, Honduras, Peru, and Romania — have at least temporarily halted adoptions or been prevented from sending children to the United States because of serious concerns about corruption and kidnapping. And yet when a country is closed due to corruption, many adoption agencies simply transfer their clients’ hopes to the next “hot” country. That country abruptly experiences a spike in infants and toddlers adopted overseas — until it too is forced to shut its doors.
Along the way, the international adoption industry has become a market often driven by its customers. Prospective adoptive parents in the United States will pay adoption agencies between $15,000 and $35,000 (excluding travel, visa costs, and other miscellaneous expenses) for the chance to bring home a little one. Special needs or older children can be adopted at a discount. Agencies claim the costs pay for the agency’s fee, the cost of foreign salaries and operations, staff travel, and orphanage donations. But experts say the fees are so disproportionately large for the child’s home country that they encourage corruption.
http://www.alternet.org/story/125414/many_westerners_are_adopting_children_bou
Jill & Mike,
Another poverty issue? Two words: human trafficking.
I can’t stress enough that a systems health is judged by it’s stability and the strength of weakest components. You elevate the poor, you elevate us all.
Dear Prof. Turley,
I was heartened to see your attention to this issue. In 2005 Amnesty International published “Stonewalled” a report on police abuse and misconduct against LGBT people in the US. It’s conclusion: “Nearly four decades after Stonewall, and despite significant progress in the recognition of human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, the targeting of LGBT individiuals for police abuse and misconduct remains a persistent and widespread problem in the US”
If you would have read the above statement to me prior to October 10, 2008, I would have said “No way, not today, not in 2008!” I received my “wake up” call when those handcuffs clicked on my wrists for doing absolutely nothing illegal. I have formed a Coalition to Stop the Arrests. We are working with the NYC Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, the NYC LGBT Community Center, Queer Justice League and the Urban Justice Center and concerned elected officials to keep the spotlight on this abuse and police misconduct until it ends.
A colleague recently forwarded the following quote from ACT UP’s Civil Disobedience Manual (remember them?):
“Those who profess to favor freedom, yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”
– Frederick Douglass, African-American abolitionist
I am also a huge fan of yours from “Countdown with Keith Olbermann”. Keep up the brilliant work.
With gratitude,
Robert Pinter
Coalition to Stop the Arrests
It can have multiple tabs with group chat, private chat and the regular screen open at once. ,