To his credit, President Barack Obama has rejected efforts at the CIA and National Security Council to prevent the disclosure of memos detailing torture techniques. However, the statement below appears to lay the groundwork for a decision to block any investigation into war crimes. While insisting at we are a “nation of laws,” Obama seems to refer to enforcing those laws as acts of “retribution.” It is a position that is strikingly similar to the view of pro-Taliban leaders in Pakistan who have blocked war crimes prosecutions in that country. In the meantime, Attorney General Eric Holder has promised that no CIA employee who tortured detainees will be prosecuted. I discussed the memos on this segment of Rachel Maddow.
Holder’s anouncement further shows the obstruction of any serious investigation since the threat of prosecution is a critical tool used by investigators to gain cooperation from witnesses. It is also a curious position for the Attorney General who is saying that he will not allow people to be investigated for the commission of federal crimes despite his oath to enforce those very laws without political manipulation or interference.
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
________________________________________________________________________
____
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 16, 2009Statement of President Barack Obama on Release of OLC Memos
The Department of Justice will today release certain memos issued by the
Office of Legal Counsel between 2002 and 2005 as part of an ongoing
court case. These memos speak to techniques that were used in the
interrogation of terrorism suspects during that period, and their
release is required by the rule of law.My judgment on the content of these memos is a matter of record. In one
of my very first acts as President, I prohibited the use of these
interrogation techniques by the United States because they undermine our
moral authority and do not make us safer. Enlisting our values in the
protection of our people makes us stronger and more secure. A democracy
as resilient as ours must reject the false choice between our security
and our ideals, and that is why these methods of interrogation are
already a thing of the past.But that is not what compelled the release of these legal documents
today. While I believe strongly in transparency and accountability, I
also believe that in a dangerous world, the United States must sometimes
carry out intelligence operations and protect information that is
classified for purposes of national security. I have already fought for
that principle in court and will do so again in the future. However,
after consulting with the Attorney General, the Director of National
Intelligence, and others, I believe that exceptional circumstances
surround these memos and require their release.First, the interrogation techniques described in these memos have
already been widely reported. Second, the previous Administration
publicly acknowledged portions of the program – and some of the
practices – associated with these memos. Third, I have already ended the
techniques described in the memos through an Executive Order. Therefore,
withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in
the public domain for some time. This could contribute to an inaccurate
accounting of the past, and fuel erroneous and inflammatory assumptions
about actions taken by the United States.In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who
carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from
the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to prosecution.
The men and women of our intelligence community serve courageously on
the front lines of a dangerous world. Their accomplishments are unsung
and their names unknown, but because of their sacrifices, every single
American is safer. We must protect their identities as vigilantly as
they protect our security, and we must provide them with the confidence
that they can do their jobs.Going forward, it is my strong belief that the United States has a
solemn duty to vigorously maintain the classified nature of certain
activities and information related to national security. This is an
extraordinarily important responsibility of the presidency, and it is
one that I will carry out assertively irrespective of any political
concern. Consequently, the exceptional circumstances surrounding these
memos should not be viewed as an erosion of the strong legal basis for
maintaining the classified nature of secret activities. I will always do
whatever is necessary to protect the national security of the United
States.This is a time for reflection, not retribution. I respect the strong
views and emotions that these issues evoke. We have been through a dark
and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges
and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and
energy laying blame for the past. Our national greatness is embedded in
America’s ability to right its course in concert with our core values,
and to move forward with confidence. That is why we must resist the
forces that divide us, and instead come together on behalf of our common
future.The United States is a nation of laws. My Administration will always act
in accordance with those laws, and with an unshakeable commitment to our
ideals. That is why we have released these memos, and that is why we
have taken steps to ensure that the actions described within them never
take place again.
The refusal to allow an investigation by a special prosecutor obstructs the enforcement of these laws, including our commitment under treaties. Obviously, Obama and Holder cannot be charged with obstruction of justice for refusing to prosecute but they are obstructing the enforcement of these laws in violation of these international agreements.
What does it mean to say we are a nation of laws while simultaneously flat out refusing to execute those very laws? There are many inaccuracies in his statement. Nevertheless, as I read it, it should only prohibit the people who physically did the torturing and relied upon the legal council to do so. Many CIA officers were told by their own legal council that what they were doing was illegal and there were govt. attys who said the same thing. But, to me, this statement by Obama leaves prosecution of the lawyers and the most senior officials, to include bush and cheney, open to prosecution. So what is the reason for not prosecuting them? This is an act of lawlessness.
Pass, but…
“…nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past.”
“…we have taken steps to ensure that the actions described never take place again.”
the former policy subverts the latter. Appoint a Special Prosecutor.
Pvt. Keepout,
“the former policy subverts the latter”–You are absolutely correct.
From the ACLU–this is a very good examination of what Obama is doing. It is forceful and strongly worded. They are not backing down.
“We have to look back before we can move forward as a nation. When crimes have been committed, the American legal system demands accountability. President Obama’s assertion that there should not be prosecutions of government officials who may have committed crimes before a thorough investigation has been carried out is simply untenable. Enforcing the nation’s laws should not be a political decision. These memos provide yet more incontrovertible evidence that Bush administration officials at the highest level of government authorized and gave legal blessings to acts of torture that violate domestic and international law,” said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. “There can be no more excuses for putting off criminal investigations of officials who authorized torture, lawyers who justified it and interrogators who broke the law. No one is above the law, and the law must be equally enforced. Accountability is necessary for any functioning democracy and for restoring America’s reputation at home and abroad.”
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/breaking%3A_obama_doj_releases_four_cia_torture_memos/#137058
Not interested in the torturers proper. I’ve said it before. I want the ones who provided them cover and gave the orders, from Yoo to Cheney.
APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR NOW!
I have a utopian idea that was predicated on Mr. Obama’s cowardice and naiveté.
Let’s not look back at any crime—governmental or otherwise—by opening the prisons and telling everybody: “Your crimes of pedophilia, torture, murder, and all others are forgiven, we are all starting over from this day forward with a clean slate. However, if you commit the same or worse crimes again, well then, we are *really* going to punish you this time—we really are and mean it now, please be sure of that resolve and please be nice…
OBAMA OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE !!
OBAMA THE LIAR !!
OBAMA THE MASS-MURDERER !!
OBAMA THE WARMONGER !!
OBAMA THE WAR CRIMINAL !!
Since we can’t find a judge in the U.S. who is a real man or real woman, extradite OBAMA and all the co- conspirators of U.S. War Crimes to Europe.
“That is why we must resist the forces that divide us, and instead come together on behalf of our common future.”
I say, more important then unity in this country is having an open and painfully frank discussion as to what exactly this country does and doesn’t stand for.
I don’t WANT to have a common future with folk who think torture is justified.
“I don’t WANT to have a common future with folk who think torture is justified.”
Seconded.
To look forward a little bit is short sighted. Look forward with clear vision further than Obama is doing now, and you will see repeats of these crimes because those types of criminals do not need to fear prosecution.
Look further ahead President Obama.
The press release is an exclamation of the Nuremberg defence that has already been rejected by the United States and the free world. It has also been rejected by federal criminal trial courts.
Hitler’s minions exclaimed that they “were only following orders” which was rejected.
There is a criminal case in the 5th Circuit published cases where a sheriff and his deputies water boarded prisoners to exact confessions.
They were all convicted.
One of the deputies raised the Nuremberg defence, but it was rejected by the trial court, and by the appellate court.
US v Lee, 744 F.2d 1124 (5th Cir., 1984).
Change we can believe in.
Obama and Holder are traitors to the United States and cowards to their race.
BVM,
Where does their race come into play? That statement went beyond stupid into the realm of beyond belief. If you’re not black it was racist and if you are, then you should re-read the history of your people to discover that statements like that are pitifully dumb. It is enough to endure your over the top hyperbole, but to read nonsense like this makes me sick.
You’re either a right wing troll who thinks he’s smart, or an aspiring left winger whose got no chops. In either event you are representative of the most dangerous of humans, one who doesn’t know that he/she is stupid.
Seconded.
Mike,
Click on BVMs name and look at the website to which it links.
God Bless America…
Suddenly it’s clear how Woody Guthrie’s anger at “God Bless America” could bring him to sing “This Land is Your Land”
or this little ditty
Then there’s this:
The Washington Post also reported:
“For the first time, officials said that they would provide legal representation at no cost to CIA employees in international tribunals or U.S. congressional inquiries into alleged torture. They also said they would indemnify agency workers against any possible financial judgments.” (quoted by Jeremy Scahill)
So we move beyond ignoring our law to paying for any and all expenses incurred by lawbreakers.
I want to add that to release damning information while at the same time refusing to do anything about the actions described therein is really appalling to me. If you find clear and convincing evidence of a crime you don’t “move forward” you appoint a prosecutor. It’s also more divisive to ignore the rule of law than to follow it. And don’t forget that Obama said also, that his govt. will need to be more secretive from now on, “to protect the American people”. I see where this is heading–right back to the past.
Excuse me. I will restate it.
Obama and Holder are cowards to the black people of the world. They make us all ashamed.
FFLEO,
Went there and found a flashback to the annoying holier than thou radicals I knew in the 60’s. So pure in verbiage, so disdainful of anyone who doesn’t follow their party line, so accusatory in style, most of them were “skin deep” believers, ready to sell out their ideals if the gravy train came in. From the looks of this group they’d be up singing for Rick Warren if the dollars were right. People often mistake those seemingly with common cause for allies when in truth they’re just carbon copies of their political opposites. Same type of rhetoric, same authoritarian bent: The interchangeability of Nazi’s and Stalinists.
“So we move beyond ignoring our law to paying for any and all expenses incurred by lawbreakers.”
Jill,
How cool is that?!
So we’re going to pay for their defense?
How about this.
Punish the torturers or cease to be a legitimate government.
Illegitimate. Do you understand that word, Obama?
As in “one I should no longer pay taxes to”. Or “obey their unequal application of laws”. Or “give any thing except the finger, much less money, respect or deference.”
You think those idiot teabaggers are trouble? They’re poorly educated pawns. Right now I urge every attorney who takes his or her vow to protect the Constitution seriously to withhold paying taxes next year (probably too late for this year) absent forward movement on prosecution between now and then. Write on your forms, “I’ll be glad to pay as soon as you put the treasonous traitors of the Bush Administration on trial. Until then, I politely decline to participate in your tacit approval and furtherance of criminal conspiracy to defraud U.S. citizens and violate the Constitution by cutting your funding.”
So, what has the president accomplished today with these announcements? Let’s itemize:
1. He has proclaimed to the world that the prosecution of those responsible for the violation of U.S. domestic laws and international treaty obligations is limited to those accused who are foreign nationals.
2. He has published a handbook of permissible torture methods that current and future enemies of the U.S. can safely rely upon when interrogating U.S. citizens arrested or captured overseas.
3. He has revived the argument rejected at Nuremberg that reliance upon orders from one’s superiors is a valid defense against charges of war crimes.
4. He has ratified the worst excesses of the Bush administration in deference to the false god of national unity.
5. He has confirmed to the American public his belief that government should be of laws rather than of men, unless there are overriding political considerations.
6. He has cast aside the opportunity to reaffirm our willingness to exercise responsible moral leadership in international affairs.
7. He has established the political precedent that the actions of the executive branch should be afforded immunity from investigation by successive administrations.
8. He has informed the community of nations that our word can be relied upon provided we deem it appropriate under the circumstances of the moment.
9. He has betrayed the trust of literally millions of voters who saw in him real hope for the restoration of this country’s reputation.
10. He has delivered to the Republican Party sufficient evidence of hypocrisy to galvanize political opposition to future policy battles.
If I appear bitter, I am. This is shortsighted, Machiavellian expedience at its worst.
Mike S.
Two words. One phrase. “Poison Pill”.
Also a troll tactic.
BVM,
How lovely to note that you speak for the black people of the world, just when were you appointed? Somehow, those people of color I know didn’t realize you were the minister of propaganda.
Just a note on Black History, which you really should know. Eldridge Cleaver, he of Black Panther Fame and raper of women called Dr. King a coward and traitor to his race. Eldridge, that man of the people wound up as a clothing designer. Elijah Mohammed of the Nation of Islam called one of the greatest persons of his time, Malcom X, a traitor and Elijah probably conspired with Hoover’s FBI to have him murdered. Stokely (Black Power) Carmichael helped destroy the Civil rights movement with his inflammatory rhetoric calling great Black Leaders cowards and traitors, then Stokely miraculously reappeared in Africa to avoid the mess he created and the destruction of his community. There were of course rumors of CIA employment and Cointelpro, but nothing came of it.
As a white man,the most important and most moving issue of my 7 decades has been the struggle by African-Americans against racism and assaults on their dignity. My role was small, but my commitment never has wavered and I don’t give a damn what color you are: Stupid is Stupid, but ignorance is worse.
I AM SORRY I EVER VOTED FOR THIS SAD SON OF A BITCH OBAMA.
HE LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH TO US ABOUT EVERYTHING.
HE IS JUST ANOTHER CROOKED POLITICIAN.
Mike,
If you have some other words to describe Obama and Holder which mean the same as cowards and traitors, please feel free to use them.
I want you to be comfortable in referring to the treasonous fascists.
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Nice combo, trolls.
Poison Pill (Obfuscation of blame – the crime is Bush Co’s. but the failure to prosecute is Obama’s. That’s more subtle than anything I’ve seen since I used to crush your kind at WaPo.) and False Consensus all on one thread. Your corporatist fascist bosses must be sweating buckets to pay your overtime.
Thanks Mike Appelton.
Although I do not always agree with lawyers, the ones who posit reason and logic through critical thinking are invaluable writers who often take the time to ‘itemize’ their thoughts. We have 4 or 5 of those types within this blawg.
However, Stars ‘n Bars forever to those 258,000 Confederate dead.
“We must protect their identities as vigilantly as they protect our security, and we must provide them with the confidence that they can do their jobs.”
Good Lord! Is torture now a job?
“It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department,” Holder said.
It would be unfair? What the hell! Is torture now a victim-less crime.
WHERE IS MESPO?
I WANT THAT PRICK TO COME HERE AND TELL ME HE WAS WRONG WHEN HE WROTE SERVERAL MONTHS AGO THAT OBAMA WAS DIFFERENT AND WOULD REVERSE ALL THE SPYING BUSH DID!
IT APPEARS OBAMA IS AN EVEN WORSE RIGHTS VIOLATOR IN JUST 3 MONTHS THAN BUSH WAS IN 8 YEARS!
FFLEO, thanks for the kind words. I just wish I could come up with something positive to say about this decision.
Apparently mark just picked up on my item #10. I didn’t think it would take long.
HEE HEE HEE!
Oh come on you naive little creatures. Virtually Obama’s entire safety in this dangerous world rests with the CIA.
Were you ever so naive to actually believe this President would make an enemy of the same agency charged with protecting him?
No wonder this clown won; you actually never thought this through did you?
Amazing.
I know it’s off-topic, but the W.A.R. article was posted so long ago, I felt it necessary and important to popst this update about Gov. Palin’s choice for Alaska Attorney General, Wayne Anthony Ross. This is from the Huffington Post:
After weeks of losing ground, the joint body of the Alaska legislature has voted to reject Wayne Anthony Ross as Attorney General.
Our representation has debated at length Governor Palin’s controversial appointment and they have been distracted from state business in the critical waning days of the session. I believe that was part of the design of the appointment.
Sarah Palin is 3000 miles, and 3 time zones away in Indiana. She was not present to lobby her appointment.
They have denied Wayne Anthony Ross.
This vote by the joint legislative body reveals a growing bipartisan lack of confidence in Governor Palin’s ability to make critical appointments.
The Combined Vote: 23 yeahs 35 nays. DENIED.
Well, mark, let me be the first to publicly confess my naivete. Until your post, I truly didn’t realize that the CIA has a standing policy of assassinating presidents who don’t sign on to its game plan. What universe have I been inhabiting?
Excerpt:
“Spain wants torture charges against Bush Six dropped”
By MARTIN SIEFF
http://www.upi.com/news/issueoftheday/2009/04/16/Spanish-government-wants-torture-charges-against-Bush-Six-dropped/UPI-95961239896403/
“WASHINGTON, April 16 (UPI) — The attorney general of Spain has recommended dropping a yearlong attempt to bring six former senior Bush administration officials to trial on charges of authorizing torture practices at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But the final decision on whether or not to proceed with the case will lie with the daredevil judge prosecuting it. And he’s never backed down yet.”
Good points WollieB.
During my tenure as a federal officer, there is no way my supervisor would have forced me to torture anyone for any reason. Any reasonable CIA officer or other LEO would have known that waterboarding is torture, regardless of those written legal opinions.
I think many–not most–decent Americans would experience deep remorse if they commited torture under the orders of superiors and then found that out, after-the-fact, that they violated international law and would at least resign and seek justice against those who gave the orders.
Full Court Troll Offensive.
Game on.
FFLEO,
The truth is most of these CIA “interrogators” did get there own legal opinion and were told their actions were illegal. That is why they got the DOD and DOJ to sign off on their every move (which was in fact done). I have sympathy for grunts in Iraq who had no place to go and they tortured people. But for the CIA I have none. These people could have quit their job anytime. A grunt can’t leave a theater of battle but these people could. So not only could they have quit as soon as they were asked to torture, they did not. Instead, they went to the lawyers to see how they could torture, keep their jobs, and not get nailed for it. That is evil.
One of the memos shows the DOJ clearly knew they were basically pulling shit out of their butts and that no court was likely to agree to their “interpretations” of the law. That is evil also.
The highest evil is reserved for those who conceived the idea and asked for ways to torture and have no consequences–bush and cheney. Then the man that protects them, obama. He is clearly an accessory to torture and if the detainees at Gitmo are proven correct (and I believe them) he has allowed torture under his presidency. A pox on them all.
mark:
Well if screaming helps you win an argument in your world go ahead. I am disappointed by this statement but I am not sure it closes the door on investigation or prosecution of the officials who instigated, supported,implemented and hid this vile program. I don’t think the final whistle has sounded, and I’ll wait and see. I think you’ll find gloating is much more fun when the game is over, and not prematurely in the fourth quarter.
By not prosecuting Bush and his cohorts has Obama not negated every federal law? If a president can pick and choose which laws to follow then by god so can i and everyone else.
mespo727272 1, April 16, 2009 at 7:35 pm
mark:
Well if screaming helps you win an argument in your world go ahead. I am disappointed by this statement but I am not sure it closes the door on investigation or prosecution of the officials who instigated, supported,implemented and hid this vile program. I don’t think the final whistle has sounded, and I’ll wait and see. I think you’ll find gloating is much more fun when the game is over, and not prematurely in the fourth quarter.
—
mespo,
Thank you. I just logged in to see what you had to say…
I didn’t take Obama’s statement as ‘Game Over’ either.
That is also what JT led with on ‘Rachel’ just now
- sort of. Obviously, Leon Panetta doesn’t see this as the end of the road, either.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2009/041109a.html
CIA Videos Predated Bush Legal Memo
“There are questions as to who was authorizing what for the CIA before August,” Singh said. “Those facts need to be made public and that’s why we need to have an investigation.”
Patty C:
I find there are all types of tribunals in life and all sorts of ways to make people suffer punishment for wrongdoing –a lot of it is self-imposed. By blocking prosecution Obama may be doing these torturers the greatest of disservices by denying them the right to confess their “sins,” in public. I do not believe them to be psychopaths and there is only so much rationalizing one can do to ease a guilt ridden conscience–the perceived crimes of your victim notwithstanding. They may never face a formal judge and jury but I find guilt to be the most relentless and degrading jailer of all. Oscar Wilde said it best, “It is the confession, not the priest, that gives us absolution.” The president has foolishly denied them and us this benefit. These torturers have made away with nothing:
“If he has a conscience he will suffer for his mistake. That will be punishment-as well as the prison.”
–Fyodor Dostoevsky (Crime and Punishment)
Well said Mespo. While I am upset that the people who carried out the torture may not be charged, I have always been more concerned with the big fish in this pool. Bush, Cheney and the rest of the cabal that ordered and authorized the torture is who I am after. Maybe the CIA operatives are being protected because they will be “singing” for the Justice Department in an upcoming investigation of who authorized the torture. Could this just be an immense plea bargain?
One more thing. Mark, the CIA is not charged with the duty of protecting the President. That is the Secret Service’s job.
well in the last days of the IIIrd Reich, were they really protecting?
I agree with BIL in that I don’t really care about the CIA torturers, I am more interested in the prosecution of the people who said that torture is legal (and if it turns out they were pressured to give opinions that legitimized torture – which I suspect is the case – then we should look at prosecuting them…). As a mathematician and a scientist I have a very different view of proof and evidence than most posters here as well as a far less nuanced understanding of the law than most of the posters on this blog, but it seems to me that the defense of “I was just following orders” is legitimate if these persons were told that the orders were legal by the justice department – thus doing their due diligence to verify that the orders were legal (and making the memos authored by the justice department even more egregious). This argument seems logically sound to me – is it legally sound, or am I missing something?
Prosecute them all. Do it on TV. Show it in Guantanamo cells. Show it on Al-Jazzeera. Show it in the gym, in the barber shop, in the dorm, in the lobby. Let’s all watch and feel and learn. Let’s all put ourselves in everyone’s place–the accused, the judge, the jury. Hear them out. Do us good. Isn’t that what courts are for? It’s what they were for, once, when citizens were the ultimate authority instead of directionless clueless passengers. And then we can decide what justice is, and what America means anymore.
By the way, I’m imagining a jury of their peers. A bunch of hooded spooks who shrivel in sunlght. End the CIA. Harry Truman said he’d never have started it if he’d known it would become the American Gestapo.
By the way, this idea of Obama’s that prosecuting war crimes is divisive and that we should instead look forward– ? There’s nothing divisive about uniting us in common defense of the Constitution. It’s the page we all need to be on. I saw a lot of tea baggers with signs about the Constitution, it’s not a right or left thing at all. To fail to defend our common ground — that’s the biggest fail of all. That’s where we lose America. Congratulations Osama, you win.
And by the way, how about reopening the 9/11 investigation? The 9/11 report was based in large part on info spoonfed the commission by the CIA from tortured prisoners. And we might finally learn why the third building fell.
Arrest Obama! He is Not the President!
Obama is a War Criminal. He has been a War Criminal for several years in funding and waging Wars of Aggression. He should Not have been placed on the ballots. He should Not have been certified by the Congress. Obama should Not have been sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. These acts were unconstitutional, felonious and treasonous. Obama can be arrested at any time by the U.S. Government, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Spain, Germany, Britain, etc. for War Crimes and a multitude of other charges. Our political, civil and military leaders along with the mainstream media have perpetuated and built a “Big Lie” for years. It is on the scale that Hitler and the Nazis used to deceive the German people. Obama is one manifestation of that Lie.
The list of War Criminals includes all those in Congress who voted to invade Iraq, those who voted to fund the war and the continuing occupation and all the political, civil and military leaders of America responsible for the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have all conspired in War Crimes. Many of the people in Obama’s cabinet and in his administration are War Criminals. Very few in the Bush Administration and Congress are NOT War Criminals. They are murderous fascists!
Dear Jonathan,
Every time I see you appear on MSNBC I know I am going to feel dreadful when your comments are over–not because I don’t agree with you, but because I do. I am a sixty-five year old white woman who has the greatest respect for our new president–but some of the decisions coming out of his Justice Department have me chilled to the bone.
Raised a Goldwater Conservative–now a flaming liberal–I don’t know how a Constitutional scholar like Obama can countenance some of the latest Justice Department rulings. The President is an intelligent and subtle man, so I can only hope that there is a plan here not available to a mortal such as myself. But please keep speaking out, Jonathan–even if it feels as if you are crying in the wilderness. You have my greatest respect and admiration.
I have been “reflecting”. I find this situation quite dangerous. We have a group of secret “interrogators” coming from within our own govt. and from outside contractors. We asked these people to torture. They hired their own lawyers who told them, if you want to go ahead make certain you get everything in writing from the govt. first, so you’ll be covered if you get indicted. After being told this, and upon being asked to engage in torture, this group of people said, “yes we’ll do it”.
Now this group is left in place by the govt. Do we want our govt. leaving people who say “yes” to torture in place? If they said yes before, why should they say no now? We have a standing group of unnamed people who will torture if our govt. tells them to. Where does a standing group of immune tortures exactly fit in with democracy? That seems like a dangerous thing to me.
I thought Jonathan made many excellent points on RM last night. I hope we will have the video of him soon. He said the best way to have a non-politicized situation is to appoint a career, impartial prosecutor who will follow the facts wherever they lead.
Please do not forget that Blackwater is a group of displaced servicemen who had to get out of the military to make real money.
The connection between Blackwater and the Republicans is extensive. The Brother that runs Blackwater is none other than Betsy DeVos’s own. And you ask who is Betsy DeVoss? She is married to Dick DeVos who owns AMWAY.
Oh yes and I have the knowledge teacher. I can buy my way into a Covert Operation of the CIA without identification because I have money and You can’t trace it to me.
I like that where else do you get paid to shoot people for fun and profit?
Slartibartfast,
The argument is logically sound, but not legally sound for the aforementioned Nuremberg defense (I was following orders) having already been discredited in Federal court. Due diligence does not excuse torture, rape or murder as any human with a conscience should know they are committing a prima facie illegal act under color of authority. But I am willing to accept the logical argument over the legal in this instance for one reason only – the pragmatic aspects of the intelligence community require that we employ a certain number of sociopaths. Why? Because every other intelligence agency in the world does. It takes a lizard to catch a lizard. They can be useful tools. But like any tool, they can harm when misused. That’s why I want the ones who misused them held accountable. Should this be a blanket immunity? Absolutely not. Any participant who strayed into murder and rape needs to be punished, be they CIA, military or civilian. A case by case review is merited where the most egregious defenders go on to face criminal trials. If you’ve followed the unfolding history here, I’ll think you’ll find the military has objected to this abuse of prisoners all along – sometimes more strongly than others. It is a well known fact that torture produces bad intel and that’s why these techniques are not part of the military’s standing practices on interrogation. And object or not, they followed their orders albeit under various degrees of protest. Given the limited options of legal protest available under the USCM, their participation should be reviewed on a case by case basis. This courtesy of a semi-blind eye to primary actors (as opposed to enablers – the ones I REALLY want hung from the neck), however, does not apply to the medical professionals who helped carry out said torture. They have a wholly seperate obligation to humanity and that is to “first, do no harm”. While imprisoning them for assisting in torture (absent murder or rape) and giving the torturers proper a walk is manifestly unjust, I don’t think removing their ability to practice medicine ever again is out of line for any of them.
BTW, I really like your work. Fjords rock!
Here a black minister, James David Manning, compares Obama to Hitler;
Do you think Hitler suffered from Narcissism?
I tried to read every post above, so if I missed this subject no offence intended.
What happened to the independence of the Attorney General?
We heard a lot of that from Obama and Holder (BTW I voted Obama /Biden).
Holder wanted to release the memos unredacted. Maybe to prosecute?
So Obama overruled Holder?
If so that is another error.
Dredd,
There have been AGs who resigned rather than engage in illegal activities. Holder should do so if he truly disagrees with Obama. I agree that if Obama overruled Holder that is another mistake, but I’m guessing they are on the same page and any talk about differences is spin. Otherwise, Holder would act on priciple and resign.
Mike Appleton:
“If I appear bitter, I am. This is shortsighted, Machiavellian expedience at its worst.”
Imagine the liberal rage had this been a republican president that did this.
had this … done this…?
Mike: “This is this.”
– The Deer Hunter
This is an article by Bruce Fine, a Republican who consistently criticized Bush. I agree Bob, had this been McCain, there would have been no doubt about the real meaning of the actions taken by the president. Upon further “relection” I find that it is quite dangerous to describe crimianl investigations into crime as a type of vengence. JT addressed this very well on RM. Glenn Greenwald feels that Obama should be praised for the release of the memos and condemned for the grant of immunity. I think he is mistaken to separate the two acts. They were taken together for a reason. Bruce Fine addresses this issue and how he feels Obama should have handled the problem:
“President Obama should have invoked his pardon power if he believed circumstances justified the crimes by Bush and Cheney and the CIA’s interrogators. A pardon or lesser clemency properly exposes the president to political accountability, as Bush discovered with Cheney’s chief of staff Scooter Libby and President Ford with former President Nixon. More significant, a pardon does not set a precedent making lawful what was unlawful. It acknowledges the criminality of the underlying activity, and acceptance of the pardon is an admission of guilt by the recipient. Pardons leave unsullied the doctrine of Ex parte Milligan (1866):”The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men at all times and in all circumstances. No doctrine involving more pernicious consequences was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government.”
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/17-4
Hi Everyone,
When I heard Prof. Turley speaking on Countdown that Obama was invoking “state secrets”, I realized that I knew very little about this person who was now our president. I began a search and it has led me down the proverbial rabbit hole. As I watched the Ring of Power videos and One Nation Under Siege on youtube, I began to see a bigger picture forming. I’ve spent hours searching and am committed to shining a light into dark places in order that the truth be revealed, not only for myself, but for our future generations. Even though it was tough looking at some of this, I am determined to do so with an open, objective mind. I have also come across an idea that I believe is a very viable solution. The links for these are at the bottom of this. Now you may be asking what this has to do with the subject at hand? I believe it has everything to do with it.
As you search for yourself and perhaps look into some of this, it will make more sense. More dots will be connected and a bigger picture forms. Now I know that “conspiracy theroy” stuff is taboo…but that’s exactly what they want us to think so we’ll keep looking away from that which points us to the truth.
If you are a parent or educator, you might wish to read The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America. If our government is openly and deliberately disregarding the laws of our nation right in front of us, the question remains…what are they doing behind the scene?
Speaking of Amway, I just got the ebook Merchants of Deception, which is about Amway.
So, if you’d like to go down the rabbit hole, you can go to you tube and search for Ring of Power and One Nation Uner Siege, as well as The Zeitgiest Movement and The Venus Project. Check out Phillip Berg and 911weknow.com and click the link Who is Obama.
One this site, check out the article on hdtv about halfway down the page. Not everything is as it seems to be.
Mespo backed by Patty caution that the issue still isn’t settled and that we’re in the 4th Quarter, so we need to wait until the game is done before making final judgments. I agree with both of them but I would suggest that we are about 3 minutes into the 1st Quarter. The whole back and forth of this argument is really about parsing words, fueled by suspicions that are grounded by the disaster of the last 8 years.
I believe we have a right to be suspicious, a duty to speak out, a need for the public pressure led by JT, ACLU, etc., and a healthy basis to be skeptical of the backbones of the politicians from both parties. Righteous anger is needed and we see here, with trollish exceptions, that we have it in abundance.
Nevertheless, we are reading into a politician’s words. The President is walking a difficult line and no doubt trying to finesse it. I was at one point a Director in the NYC Human Resources Administration, with a staff of more than 300, located in about 15 different offices Citywide. The project we were working on was an effort to save NYC from $150 Million in penalties, so as you can imagine I had full authority. Do any of you have any idea how hard that was to ensure that everyone was on the same page, especially because firing wasn’t an option? President Obama, besides only 3 months running this huge government, is dealing with Secret Agencies, with secret funding and secret mandates. This is not easy stuff folks and if I was him I would be proceeding just as cautiously and believe me I’m far more radical than he ever was.
Get pissed, write what you have to, sign petitions, call the White House and Congress, support Professor Turley et. al. in their public forays, but please keep one thing clear, what would be happening had John McCain been elected? I well remember those voters who refused to vote for that “sellout”
Hubert Humphrey, than feeling shocked, shocked I tell you, when student were murdered at Kent State and the Ohio Governor was congratulated by Nixon. A little perspective please, mixed in of course with your righteous anger.
BVA,
I’m sorry to say you are probably not a troll, but merely a fool who thinks he’s radical. You don’t get the fact that President Obama’s actions should not be judged on a racial basis, but on the political merits. My issue with you, other than your excess of hyperbole, is that you seem to want to condemn the man based on his skin color rather than his policies. That is plainly out and out stupid and is no doubt informed by your thinking of yourself as a real radical. guess what, real radicals aren’t that dumb. If, as is implied you are a person of color and don’t feel a sense of accomplishment that the Country has elected a Black man as President, then you are ignorant of your own self interest. Try actually thinking through your ideas rather than giving “hipper than thou screeds that frankly are more silly than politically astute.
Thanks for some perspective, Mike S. I remember my anger watching Humphrey embracing Mayor Daley at the 1968 convention. My tongue was seriously bleeding when I pulled the lever for Humphrey that November. I’ll try to remember that moment while we wait to see how this plays out.
This just leaves me pretty disillusioned with the whole political process in our country. I didn’t vote for Obama, but I certainly saw his presidency as the lesser of the two evils. As a Marine, I was taught to respect life and to only resort to force when force was presented to me. We were taught to obey orders, but to remember that our moral compass is what makes us better than our enemies. It is our solemn duty to object to carry out any unlawful order. This is pounded into you (or at least it was to me) throughout my military career. These CIA officials who carried out this torture have no excuse. I place some blame on them, and believe they should be punished, but it is often very hard to stand up to authority. They can be punished and forgiven once they’ve paid the price. The people who cannot be forgiven, however, are the politicians and officers who ordered/approved/allowed this to happen. Unfortunately, we will probably never know who these people really are. This is a sad day for our nation.
I’m saddened and hurt by President Obama’s position. I had such high hopes for real change. Now it seems that nothing will change except the names and faces. A nation of laws can not ignore the rule of law. Nor can we set such a poor example for others to follow. While this episode is painful, it is one that needs to be addressed by an investigation and prosecution. Otherwise, we are no better than some countries that did the same or worse,(e.g., Liberia, Guatemala, Argentina,etc.)and were prosecuted for their actions. We can’t have it both ways.
Matthew and Urban,
What we’re talking about is a battle for the soul of this country. This is an ongoing war between those who would enslave us in the interests of their greed/power and those who would see our constitution reign supreme in the Land. I can understand your being disheartened, but the war for justice is still being waged. Marines aren’t supposed to quit when the going gets rough and people from City’s know that sometimes life is a daily battle. As I said in another comment we’re only 3 minutes into the 1st Quarter and there is a whole lot of time left on the clock.
Matthew N,
I’m very glad that you serve in our military. What you wrote shows the best of what it means to serve. Thanks for posting here.
I hope that millions saw you on The Rachel Maddow Show last night. As usual, you described with clarity what is at stake here, and what the law requires. I have signed 4 petitions and used Facebook to urge others to do the same. I have also written to the White House (http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/). But I feel despair. Where has the Principled Obama gone? How can we reach him? We must all act and act now to send him the message that he is not moving the country forward, but is instead perpetuating the darkest days of the Bush era. I think that we must do more, and so I am considering circulating a printed petition in my small town. . .if we can get a few hundred people in a rural Western town to tell him this is wrong, might that penetrate what seems to be his hard-headed disregard for justice?
Lynn,
Go for it! Perhaps this is all stagecraft building a national momentum for prosecution, perhaps not, but what we all can do is exert pressure any way we can and see what happens. In its’ beginnings Watergate was a slow trickle that became a flood. Is it really coincidence the way this information is being slowly released?
This is not going away,the pressure to prosecute is overwhelming.
Obama must feel caught in a rock and a hard place in fear of political backlash if he would to proceed with bringing those
culpable of clear and outright torture.On the otherhand if he
doesn’t then he faces what he is facing now,growing outrage over
the hypocracy of his campaign promises to uphold the United States of America as a Nation of Laws as Jill pointed out.
Obama knows that this is going to lead to George W. Bush’s
doorstep if he orders prosecution and that is what he is afraid of.
Mike S,
I think he and Holder are orchestrating this so that prosecution will come, but be seen as the will of the people, rather than the retribution of political partisanship. Given the buffoons in the MSM and the Village Idiots, bowing to public pressure with seeming reluctance would provide excellent political cover. Isn’t it interesting the pace at which these new revelations keep appearing?
Is the 9th circuit still more liberal that the other courts? Or is this symbiotic of the entire administration?
Local Governments Begin Investigations of Obama Crimes
Subject: Criminal investigation of Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
Beaumont Police Department
Beaumont TX
Attn: Officer Ronald Dischler
Dear Mr. Dischler,
My name is Dr. Orly Taitz, I am an attorney representing over 130 members of the US military, 10 state representatives, ambassador Keyes and other citizens, questioning legitimacy of Mr. Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro for presidency. Among them are following citizens of the State of Texas:
LTC Chetwin Hurd
SGNT Morgan Samuel Ward
Capt. Ralph H. Jenkins
SGNT Jeffrey Wayne Rosner
LCDR Jeff Graham Winthrope
Mr. Richard D. Sanders
Mrs. Jody Brockhausen
While doing research of this case, I’ve uncovered a number of instances of suspected illegal and criminal activity by Mr. Obama and his supporters. As an officer of the court I have a solemn duty to report such activity to the law enforcement and demand immediate investigation, subpoena of the records and prosecution to the full extend of the law.
Mr. Obama has availed himself to the jurisdiction of the state of Texas as he put his name as a candidate for president on the ballot here and additionally he came and campaigned here.
Please see attached reports, that should help in your investigation. Reports contain a computerized image of Certification of life birth for Mr. Obama and Certification of Selective Service and statements from experts, showing those documents to exhibit numerous signs of forgery.
It is my understanding that in the State of Texas forgery is a class C felony that carries up to 10 years in the state penitentiary. On two counts of forgery Mr. Obama might be facing up to 20 years in jail in the state of Texas alone, since those counts run consecutively. Since Mr. Obama has availed himself to the jurisdiction of 50 states with similar statutes, he might be facing 1,000 years in state penitentiaries around the country on forgery charges alone. Additionally, there are numerous counts of suspected fraud, voter fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, corruption of a public official, intimidation, interference with the system of justice, social security fraud, tax fraud, perjury and other related crimes. As the National Security is at stake, I would request your immediate attention to this matter and expedient report with a report number of the suspected criminal activity and subpoena of Mr. Obama’s vital records, such as his original vault long version birth certificate in Hawaii, passports from Indonesia and Kenya, immigration records, certification of selective service, school registration from Occidental College, Harvard university and Columbia University.
I am attaching a 164 page dossier of suspected illegal activity. You can find more documents for download on my blog http://www.repubx.com
Sincerely,
Dr. Orly Taitz Esq
26302 La Paz ste 211
Mission Viejo Ca 92691
29839 S. Margarita Pkwy
Rancho Santa Margarita Ca 92688
ph. w- 949-586-8110 c- 949-683-5411
fax 949-586-2082
——————————————————————————–
From: “ronald dischler”
To: dr_taitz@yahoo.com
Ms. Taitz,
I have received your email and I will use it to further my investigation into the Criminal matter concerning Barack Hussein Obama. The only thing that I will be able to file on is crimes committed in the City of Beaumont Tx.. However, with your information, I will attempt to add to the criminal charges or bring it to the attention of someone who can go further. I am a very resourseful individual and I guarantee that I will fight to the end. I do not enter into this matter lightly or with blind abandon. I do this because I too took an oath as a Police Officer to defend the Constitution of not only the great state of Texas but also the great nation of the United States of America. [Redacted]
Again, thank you for the information and I will be back in touch with you very very soon. [Redacted] There is another Officer who works in C.I.D. (Criminal Investigation Division) who would be more than willing to join me in pursuing this investigation. I have as yet to tap this resource.
If you have any more questions, or you obtain any more information that you think would be beneficial to my case, please feel free to contact me anytime of the day or night.
Thank you,
Officer Ronald C. Dischler Sr.
Beaumont Police Dept.
255 College
Beaumont Tx., 77701
409-880-3865
409-466-2060-Cell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_8:_Oath_or_Affirmation
Further information: Oath of office of the President of the United States
“Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
As I noted again last night, even Leon Panetta does not regard this as the ‘end of the road’ on these issues. In his words, there will be more requests and inquiries from the public and Congress. The least the CIA can offer is a buffer to costly prosecution and potential judgements.
Also, as I’ve noted previously several times, there is no liability insurance policy that covers illegal acts. To afford coverage or deny it for defense and/or indemnification, one would have nail down the specific time line of events for the supposed reliance on ‘Dummies on Justice’ memos, as the current law, at the time.
At this juncture, my sense is to expect a pissing contest
-defensively drawn out and stinky to boot and definitely NOT
what we need at the moment!
Patience…
If I may offer unsolicited advice, well are we not all doing it.
I do not agree that if Obama is doing the same things that Bush and Co is being complained about should be made aright.
I voted for Ralph Nader, so I say this with all sincerity. The issue of being president or not is a moot point. He is in fact the president. Just like Bush stole the first election from Florida which eventually cost him his brothers job. His best friend and political mentor ran against him as a Democrat and won. You tell me how that played out.
The second time Bush stole the election was in OHIO. You tell me that it was not stolen when UNEMPLOYMENT was at an all time high. Plants were shutting down that a Republican won this state? Come on, they are still finding ballot boxes that were not counted.
The fact is BUSH stole the elections Johnson style. Well in Grander style than Johnson, more people were watching. Waiting for the miscreant to do it again. So, since he was the President and he needed justification for keeping his job. He did what he had to do.
For the record, I am no longer in the military. I finished up and decided to attend college.
Many people seem optimistic that the door isn’t shut on this decision. Call me cynical, but I really don’t think that raising hell on the Internet and giving my Congressmen and Senators a few calls and emails is going to change anything. The real power can only come from large PACs and whatnot, and the only one willing to stand up for the American people is the ACLU. Unfortunately for all Americans, the ACLU either runs a terrible PR campaign or the GOP/right wing runs an outstanding smear campaign against them. I guess there could also be leftover fear/distrust/contempt for the ACLU leftover from the Cold War, though I did not live through any of that so I can’t really comment (all I know is that the ACLU was associated with the “Reds” and we all know how much Americans hate “Reds”). I’ll do whatever I can to pressure the Justice Department to do the right thing, but I’m sorry to say I don’t share the optimism that others here do.
My fear is that President Obama, who is failing in so many ways to change the status quo, will ruin any chances that progressives have for the future in the way that Lyndon Johnson and his Great Society did.
Pay attention to what I’ve said…
I am no idiot in matters of politics, as many others here, obviously, are!
Christ…!!!
Jonathan, I am disappointed in your interview on Rachel Maddow’s show. I think there is room for investigating three things:
1. Whether anyone exceeded the orders based on the findings of the OLC.
2. Whether anyone who could not- should not have- in “good faith” believe(d) the findings of the OLC participated in these activities.
3. What the culpability of the people who wrote the memos is.
And I think they will be investigated. I’d like to hear why you think they won’t. I didn’t hear that on Rachel’s show; she asked you directly about the third and you didn’t give a response that passed my standards.
While emotionally, I’d like to see these people hang high, it’s called the rule of law because it’s the rule of law. If you don’t like the law, that’s OK, I don’t either. Get it changed. But please don’t ignore what’s really going on in order to comment on what’s going on that you don’t like (and I don’t either). We have to keep some connection to reality here.
Bush can be question for the Lies told to Home Owners to get them to sell there home for Presidential Library.
So this is a civil action. Of course his attorneys are appealing the decision.
Excerpt from:
“Will They Be Prosecuted?”
by Scott Horton
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-17/will-they-be-prosecuted/
“Within a period of only a few hours, however, Judge Garzón issued an opinion on the matter. He rejected the application for a transfer to Judge Moreno saying he disagreed with the prosecutors’ analysis and felt the case should remain in his hands. However, recognizing the prosecutors’ objection, Garzón referred the case to the chief judge of the Audiencia Nacional’s penal chamber to make the final call as to whom the case should be referred. The case of the Bush Six is therefore now back in the court’s assignment system.
Lawyers familiar with Audiencia Nacional practices advise me that the chief judge usually decides questions about the referral of cases extremely quickly, in a matter of only a few days. If that holds in this case, then next week we should learn the identity of the judge who will decide whether the Bush Six case will move into the next phase of criminal investigation, or will be dropped.”
“I’ll do whatever I can to pressure the Justice Department to do the right thing, but I’m sorry to say I don’t share the optimism that others here do”
Matthew,
Stay with it. Hope don’t come easy, but commitment at least drives away helpless feelings. The greatest enemy we all have is the belief that we are powerless to change our lives and/or the world around us. This is a message we are being fed by the people who have the most to gain. They are awash in greed and the lust for power. It makes their life easier if we leave it at “you can’t fight City Hall.” We owe ourselves and our fellow humans the duty to try to make our country and humanity the best it can be.
BVM,
Damn but in your simplicity of thought it really is hard to figure you out. You’re getting more trollish again.
Mike
Poison Pill. I promise you.
VIENNA (Reuters) – President Barack Obama’s decision not to prosecute CIA interrogators who used waterboarding on terrorism suspects amounts to a breach of international law, the U.N. rapporteur on torture said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE53H1Y020090418
Bob,
Most excellent. Let’s gets as much international pressure as possible so as to force Obama’s hand on the Neocons who placed the order. Too bad Spain’s AG is a lightweight. Let’s hope Judge Garzón, a past friend to liberty, comes through again.
gets?
Man, my fingers are still drunk.
If one ever finds themselves in Lawrence, KS, might I suggest a visit to the Freestate Brewery. The Ad Astra Ale, the Stromwatch Ale and the Backus Barleywine (their spelling) are three of the finer cereal malt beverages I’ve ever had pleasure to imbibe. Watch out for the barleywine though. It’s got a kick.
For those like me who had a very limited understanding of what a Rapporteur is/does mentioned in Bob, Esq’s post.(okay I did not have a clue)
______________________
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Rapporteur
United Nations Special Rapporteur
Special Rapporteur is a title given to individuals working on behalf of the United Nations who bear a specific mandate from the UN Human Rights Council (or the former UN Commission on Human Rights, UNCHR), to investigate, monitor and recommend solutions to human rights problems. They are also called “Special Procedures”.
Appointed by the UN Secretary General, these experts are “of high moral character and recognized competence in the field of human rights.” They act independently of governments. They do not receive any financial compensation for their work, but they receive personnel and logistical support from the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. Some of these experts are called Special Representatives or Independent Experts.
Special Rapporteurs often conduct fact-finding missions to countries to investigate allegations of human rights violations. They can only visit countries that have agreed to invite them.
Aside from fact-finding missions, Rapporteurs regularly assess and verify complaints from alleged victims of human rights violations. Once a complaint is verified as legitimate, an urgent letter or appeal is sent to the government that has allegedly committed the violation
Thank you Bob and FFLEO!
This is good news. I was thinking– why couldn’t Obama do what Bruce Fein said. He could issue a pardon to all the low level officers if and only if they gave a complete account of their actions. Should that account ever be found to have been imcomplete, the pardon would be void and they would serve hard time.
Further, theee men and women should be fired from jobs in our govt. They are welcome to keep their pensions but having people in one’e govt. who are willing to torture is a recipe for disaster.
I’m so happy that the international community isn’t just rolling over on this. The US uses many clubs on other nations–it’s how we got the “coalition of the willing”–through the use of threats. So it is impressive that the UN, and poassably Spain and Poland will take us on.
I’m going to state this again – differently.
Holder’s response about prosecutions, begging the high sign from the administration, has to do with the establishment of time lines pre-memo vs. post – ie by use of the worda “In advance”…
Obama uses the term ‘policy differences’ therby avoiding avoiding the assertion that the policy was fashioned around the position, because he doesn’t KNOW that.
There IS a difference, and it doesn’t stand firmly on its own merit, in my view.
Also, you don’t remove a person’s possible defenses against prosection and judgments by Foreign courts OR even State courts by giving them a Federal pardon, which in effect, constitutes an admission by the mere acceptance of same.
And you can’t pardon people without their acceptance. Potential pardons, usually, go through an in-depth application process instituted BY the potential recipient… There have been questionable exceptions, I might add.
George Bush didn’t even try that tactic before leaving office, as many predicted, ie feared, he would.
In fact, I dared him to try…!
Again, a liability insurance policy does not exist for illegal acts. While this may seem to be a minor issue, I can pretty much assure it isn’t…
Obama is playing too cozy with an absolute evil. If he allows those who have contributed to the torture of fellow human beings to go unpunished, he will be guilty of torture himself – after the fact, but guilty. Whatever the political calculation he may be making.