Burn Baby (Be-Bop) Burn: Christian Group Files to Seek Right to Burn Book

n26785The Christian Civil Liberties Union (CCLU) has selected a curious place to put together an old-fashioned book burning: a court. In West Bend, Wisconsin, Christians are upset over a book called Baby Be-Bop and other books contained in the “Young Adult” material that they say are sexually explicit and inappropriate. In a 9-0 vote, the library trustees refused their demands to remove or restrict the material at the West Bend Community Memorial Library.

Irate Christian activists Ginny and Jim Maziarka have been fighting for four months to cleanse the library and Robert C. Braun of the Christian Civil Liberties Union (CCLU) has distributed copies of a claim for damages he and three other plaintiffs filed April 28 with the city. They are demanding $120,000 in compensatory damages for each plaintiff for being exposed to the book in a library display, and the resignation of West Bend Mayor Kristine Deiss for “allow[ing] this book to be viewed by the public.”

They insist that the book by Francesca Lia Block is “explicitly vulgar, racial, and anti-Christian” and that “the plaintiffs, all of whom are elderly, claim their mental and emotional well-being was damaged by this book at the library.” They are reportedly seeking the right to publicly burn or destroy by another means the library’s copy of Baby Be-Bop.

For the full story, click here

83 thoughts on “Burn Baby (Be-Bop) Burn: Christian Group Files to Seek Right to Burn Book

  1. Have they actually read the book, and if so did it evoke an emotional response? Isn’t that the purpose of art?

    How are they with ‘Fahrenheit 451’? Is it alright that book is available at the library?

    I love that they are suing for emotional damage.

    Hilarious!

  2. Some folks claiming that they have been damaged emotionally by a book is like saying that I am lustful for a naked aborigine. Most of ain’t ever seen the naked aborigine or read the book. Not to say that they ain’t already damaged to begin with.

    I saw on TV this morning someones response to Pat Robertsons statement about sex with a duck. It is called the Duck or Love Duck or something like that.

    Thought it was pretty clever.

  3. There is nothing damaging about having books you consider vulgar at a library, if you don’t like the book, don’t read it.

  4. Hell, the collected works of Ann Coulter tick me off to no end, but I’m not going to raise hell over their presence in my local library, It strikes me that these folks really have nothing better to do with their lives.

  5. I’m always amused at folks that claim their right to violate someone else’s rights are being violated

    probably, by now, some enterprising righties have purchased many of these books so these folks can have a good old fashioned book burning, to be shown live on Fox no doubt

  6. Book burning, that most Nazi-like of activities, has all the logic of the War on Drugs. Congratulations! You’ve just sold more copies of that book than you’d be able to burn at one sitting. Prohibition breeds interest, hammerheads. I also invite you to buy as many copies of the book in question to make sure you make a nice big fire for the cameras. Unless you intend to steal them of course. WWJD? After all, a book burner needs to be media savvy. Seriously, get a standard shipping container full of them to light up. I’m sure Amazon could arrange that for you. Ms. Block and her agent are just thrilled. Turning the other cheek is a lesson about tolerance and compassion, something the actions of the Maziarka’s and the CCLU suggest they lack in abundance. At the same time, they’ve managed to once again show that the core of Christ’s teachings was “Love thy brother, except those whom shall pisseth you off or confuseth thine mind of whom which ye may symbolically or literally immolate in My Father’s Name.” I’ve read a few versions of the Bible and despite keeping an eye out for such oddities as suggesting fire as a dispute resolution mechanism or chocolate bunnies yet manage to emerge from the texts each time free of such arcane knowledge.

    So in one fell swoop you clowns have managed to be both shockingly unchrist-like in your behavior, wildly ineffective in suppressing the material you disagree with and all the while creating a media image for yourselves as unreasonable zealots who when threatened by an idea think with their little match head – a little passive-aggressive threat and hints at violence to come if you and YOUR GOD don’t get your way in intimidating those whom YOU HUMANS deem objectionable into submission to YOUR HUMAN WILL AND CLAIMS OF DIVINE PREFERENCE. So what’s next for those who dare to criticize you and your myopic mean spirited little version of the Sky Father? Thumb screws? Camps? Ovens?

    That’s a trifecta in the race to just not understanding. Anti-enlightened. So I invite the Maziarka’s and their CCLU mutants to get a pile big enough to light a bon fire visible from orbit. Ya’ll best be goosestepping on over to the Fire Marshall’s office for some permits. You wouldn’t want to be breaking any laws while providing the rest of a lesson albeit a negative one built on cruel and humorous irony that can be couched as both satire and cautionary.

  7. Christianists fight for their right to burn books! They just keep inching their way towards the Taliban every day, don’t they? It isn’t enough that they have the right not to read a book they don’t like. They want to violate everyone else’s right to read it as well.

    And what’s the deal with the Christian Civil Liberties Union? Do christians have different liberties than Americans? How can they justify a right to burn books they don’t like?

    Of course they have every right to burn books that they own. Perhaps every christianist should run out and buy ten or twenty copies of the book and throw them on the fire. That would really teach the author and publisher a lesson!

  8. So what’s a little book burning? When they get around to the real Christian stuff like witch dunking, burning heretics at the stake, bootikens, and waterboarding with the knotted cloth down the throat (real waterboarding as the neocon would say), then let me know. Enough of these JV theocrats! We need some real “holy” men to “defend the Faith.”

  9. this would be hilarious if it wasn’t coming on the heels of the murder of Dr Tiller.

    Look. You might be able to get Gone With The Wind published today as it was written in what 1934 and it was as racist a book as I’ve ever read (having re-read it three years ago) and the movie was pretty racist also. I loved it when I was 12 and all I saw was the story of unrequited love and kind of believed that all slaves went to bed with full bellies. but the good news here is that with age and experience comes some common sense.
    truly this book and movie make my skin crawl today.

    if these yahoos want to burn the book let them buy a copy from Amazon and burn it on the church lawn either during or following the cross burning.

  10. GWLSM:

    “if these yahoos want to burn the book let them buy a copy from Amazon and burn it on the church lawn either during or following the cross burning.”

    *********

    LOL & Brava!

  11. Untold accounts of human misery, suffering, and religious bigotry throughout millennia of humankind could have been prevented if every volume of the B-I-B-L-E’s multitudinous manuscripts in all languages had been *burned* to forever discredit the deceptive, fictitious, and disingenuous ‘greatest *Story* ever told.’

  12. GWLawSchoolMom;

    The good news here is definitely NOT “that with age and experience comes some common sense.” In this case, all the plaintiffs were elderly. Of course they may all be suffering from some senior Christian disease. The good news is that the library trustees have not succumbed to this disease and have voted 9-0 to keep the book in the library and not even restrict who can look at it. And may the mayor prevail as well.

    This story is just rich with irony – a ‘civil liberties group” that wants to burn a book! What a hoot!!

  13. Queen writes:
    This story is just rich with irony – a ‘civil liberties group” that wants to burn a book! What a hoot!!

    well. there are civil liberties and then there are civil liberties.
    apparently christian evangelicals have their own definition for that just as they have their own for what constitutes being pro-life while advocating the death penalty.

  14. Where’s right wing Mary to defend the book burners? Or does she agree with the liberals? If so, perhaps she’ll see why people join the ACLU to help protect people’s Constitution rights against such medieval thinking.

  15. GWMom,

    I could not agree with ya more. The Pro-life/Death Penalty one really gets me. But more that that the book burners, suppressionists have been around a long, long time. From ancient Greece to Sarajevo of recent. Power, is the theme. I do not know if most people are aware the Roman Catholic Church or at least some diocese would not let parishioners read the old testament. I think that this was up and until PiusXII.

    The destruction of the Library of Alexandria; the burning of books and burying of scholars under China’s Qin Dynasty; the destruction of Mayan codices by Spanish conquistadors and priests; Nazi book burnings which occurred May 10, 1933; and the destruction of the Sarajevo National Library.

    Now you wanna talk about a Pope that was well connected and well heeled. His family was almost in control of every aspect of Vatican City. If I am not mistaken he also right up there with being one of the the longest serving Popes.

  16. A little subversion would not be out of place- if everyone in the town that disagreed with them just showed up and threw a bible in the fire I’m sure most of these thought-fascists would have a heart attack and the bible burners would get a little camera time to express their views, whatever they may be.

  17. It seems very fashionable to bash Catholics. The Catholic Church is on record to be anti- death penalty. I have noticed that the states with high Catholic populations tend to much more liberal than those where protestants dominate.The peace and social justice movement in the catholic church is also a very positive thing. The Catholic Church has taken a turn to the right which has nearly driven me out, but there are still some good priests and parishes out there.It is very hard to be a Catholic these days.The pope stifles you and your non catholic friends look at you askance.

  18. I was at me Gran-Gran’s last weekind and I stumbled me accross a book that said if a lady-fella gits herself rapeded in the city she should be stoned to death on accout-a the fact that she mustn’t ah screamed loud enough and there for be a whore. Same book said we could smash the skulls of our babies and take their lady-fella’s as our wives if they was pretty.

    What really a-scared me though was this part about this man-fella a-named Ham who was curseded forever on-account the fact he saw his old-man’s weiner. Man, I’m pretty sure I saw my daddy’s weiner when he took a leek on our last opossum hunting trip. Also said it was a sin to eat cheese-burgers.

    I burned that crazy-ass book.

  19. Aside from the First Amendment issues raised by this story, the actions of Mr. and Mrs. Maziarka are foolish on common sense grounds. It appears that they are not happy with the publisher’s classification of the book in question, so instead of discussing the story line with their children, they reacted by expressing their unhappiness in an extreme fashion, simultaneously convincing every kid in West Bend to get a copy of the book. When I was a young Catholic school student in the ’50s, my parents subscribed to the diocesan newspaper. During that period a Catholic organization known as the Legion of Decency published a rating system for films. I routinely viewed the ratings for the movies classified as “C,” meaning condemned (morally objectionble for all audiences). In my mind, “C” meant there had to be sex in the movie. To this day, I do not remember any of the films with “A” ratings. But I do remember “Baby Doll,” “And God Created Woman” and “I Spit on Your Grave.” I knew that anything with Brigitte Bardot would automatically receive a “C” and must obviously be worth seeing. I never actually saw any of those movies, but the Legion of Decency regularly inflamed my pre-adolescent lust by keeping me informed of the forbidden pleasures just beyond my reach.

  20. Swarthmore Mom, I agree with your comments. I occasionally speak my mind, such as it is, on the “America” magazine website. I have long argued that evangelicals are hardly the friends of either Catholics or Jews. The pope is the Antichrist, but Catholic conservatives are useful allies in the abortion wars. Jews are likewise doomed, but the U.S. must support Israel unconditionally in order to fulfill the Armageddon prophecies. It is all nonsense and the Catholic hierarchy, in addition to its other obvious failings, has allowed the fundamentalist community to limit the moral debates in this country to abortion and capitalism (as though the latter were some sort of biblical virtue), while virtually abandoning its positions on capital punishment, social justice, support for unions, etc.

  21. this is a problem, isnt book burning free speech? And while distastefull it should be protected. I dont like flag burning but I think it should be legal.

  22. Mike A. and Swartzmore Mom,

    The catholic faith is based upon the Jewish traditions and they call these the High Masses. If you go to an Orthodox or some other related, the Jews are not viewed as enemies other than in business. Catholicism is and has always been based on Jesus being a Jew, dare I say, Jesus never renounced Judaism. From what I understand he was extremely proud of his heritage.

    The neo-catholics have separated themselves from any symbolical Jesus significance only to gain a wider audience. The separation from what I understand was who the messiah was, so therefore John and Jesus must die. Christianity was not a recognized religion until about the year 380. Then at that time they moved the business to Rome. I have read an account that Peter never stepped foot in Rome and maintained his underground existence in Jerusalem.

    Many Popes have been Antichrist and it is the individual that sets the policy of the church and therefore precedent. The marriage contract was all about counting for the money, to finance various wars.

    I need say no more at this time.

    Hey where is Buddha and mespo?

  23. Of course book burning is legal. That’s not the issue. Mr. and Mrs. Maziarka are welcome to spend their entire family fortune on Amazon if they wish, and hold a massive bonfire (provided they secure the proper permits from municipal and county agencies). But the type of “book burning” which has grown in popularity involves intimidating local libraries into stocking only those volumes which meet some sort of vague test of fundamentalist theology. Buy the book. Burn it. Preach against its messages. But don’t lynch the librarian.

  24. I have a question: Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

  25. Anon writes: could not agree with ya more. The Pro-life/Death Penalty one really gets me. But more that that the book burners, suppressionists have been around a long, long time. From ancient Greece to Sarajevo of recent. Power, is the theme. I do not know if most people are aware the Roman Catholic Church or at least some diocese would not let parishioners read the old testament. I think that this was up and until PiusXII.

    Me: I think I remember something from 8th grade social studies about how the church kept literacy under wraps for the entire middle ages, hence the descriptor “dark” as pertaining to learning and not the weather.
    knowledge is indeed power and the currency of modernity is information. witness the recent discussion on The Hill about release of photos of tortured detainees at Gitmo. The right is threatening a filibuster and even Obama thinks that maybe they should not be seen.

    Anon: The destruction of the Library of Alexandria; the burning of books and burying of scholars under China’s Qin Dynasty; the destruction of Mayan codices by Spanish conquistadors and priests; Nazi book burnings which occurred May 10, 1933; and the destruction of the Sarajevo National Library.

    me? I’m keeping my little printing press going for as long as my bony fingers can type.

  26. Author: lottakatz
    Comment:
    A little subversion would not be out of place- if everyone in the town that disagreed with them just showed up and threw a bible in the fire I’m sure most of these thought-fascists would have a heart attack and the bible burners would get a little camera time to express their views, whatever they may be.

    me: Va-Ca? Road Trip? Anyone?

  27. Author: Swarthmore mom
    It seems very fashionable to bash Catholics. The Catholic Church is on record to be anti- death penalty. I have noticed that the states with high Catholic populations tend to much more liberal than those where protestants dominate.The peace and social justice movement in the catholic church is also a very positive thing. The Catholic Church has taken a turn to the right which has nearly driven me out, but there are still some good priests and parishes out there.It is very hard to be a Catholic these days.The pope stifles you and your non catholic friends look at you askance.

    I don’t think anyone is bashing Catholics…. just the history of the church and its failure to take responsibility for its failures to their own people and of course victims of their policies of evangelism conversion inquistion and that kind of stuff in general.
    its easy to be liberal about the death penalty when it is actually in line with a genuine pro life stance. but what is the cost to the other side when the church won’t allow a woman to use birth control?
    I dislike many things about organized religion and if its hard to be Catholic then maybe its too hard or maybe it was never supposed to be easy.
    its still easier than being lots of other things like a Jew or black or gay

  28. Swarthmore mom writes:

    Also the evangelicals say the Catholics aren’t christian and are going to hell.

    me: Mormons are going to hell, jews too and well I’m going to hell too and their decision that I go doesn’t bother me a bit. I will be in excellent company. so why don’t we just hold hands and go together.

  29. I still have emotional damage from having (in a moment of bored desperation) read part of “Twilight,” but it is our scars that make us interesting.

  30. Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

    Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

    Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

    Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

    CAN I GET AN ANSWER PLEASE OR DO I HAVE TO GO TO A BLOG WHERE THERE ARE REAL ATTORNEYS POSTING INSTEAD OF YOU PHONIES?

  31. In addition to being off topic, you’re rude. Why don’t you do what normal people do if you’re so intent on pursuing this inquiry? Call a lawyer, make an appointment and pay a fee.

  32. Markk,

    Can Al Gore be personally liable, no more than any other corporation. You figure that out. Make the Corporations pay taxes and we will give you an answer.

  33. Anon writes: The catholic faith is based upon the Jewish traditions and they call these the High Masses. If you go to an Orthodox or some other related, the Jews are not viewed as enemies other than in business. Catholicism is and has always been based on Jesus being a Jew, dare I say, Jesus never renounced Judaism. From what I understand he was extremely proud of his heritage.

    me: not so much. no. I’ve read the christian bible and I think I understand a few things about the church and I don’t get any sense of jesus as any sort of jew. had he been even remotely observant he’d have married and would have had children. that is the core obligation for religious jewish males since god told adam to go forth and multiply. he never would have overturned the moneychanger’s tables either. moneychangers were the bank of jerusalem. pilgrims came from all over the countryside and from all over region to offer sacrifices at the temple. they had to exchange currency to buy grain or small birds, the most common sacrificial offerings just as we change money when we travel. we are charged a fee for this. the moneychangers charged a fee for this. this was their profession, work that they did so that they could support their families.
    those are only a few examples.i could go on but I’ve spent too much time in the lane.

  34. markk writes:
    Can Al Gore be legally liable for damages for sending his two journalists to North Korea? Al Gore is worth over 150 million dollars. These two journalists could have been shot on the spot in North Korea. Al Gore needs to answer some questions.

    CAN I GET AN ANSWER PLEASE OR DO I HAVE TO GO TO A BLOG WHERE THERE ARE REAL ATTORNEYS POSTING INSTEAD OF YOU PHONIES?

    good grief. don’t get your panties in such a twist. those reporters, young women, were not sent into N.Korea. they were sent to s. Korea to interview refugees from the north and they got too close to the line and were snagged.
    maybe if you want al gore to answer questions you might contact him.

    as to your little snit about real attorneys, maybe no one has answered you because we don’t like your style. feel free to find a blog more to your liking. i don’t think you will be missed.

  35. GW MOM,

    One Question, If Jesus was not a Jew then what religion was he? If you will read Paul, James or JohnII, you might get your answer.

  36. GLSM,

    Remember, the Bible was written, edited and compiled long after Jesus would have been alive. That was all done by people who would have looked at his being Jewish as something that should be minimized.

  37. GWLawSchoolMom

    You make zero sense. These young women were on North Korean territory. They were sent there by their boss, Al Gore and is an example of true negligence.

    If I were their families I would be suing Al Gore & his company(s) for every cent he has stolen from others – apparently about $150 million.

  38. Anon writes:
    One Question, If Jesus was not a Jew then what religion was he? If you will read Paul, James or JohnII, you might get your answer.

    me: I have read that stuff. I find most of it inconsistent and John is clearly a Jew hater. Luke was not any sort of Jew and most historians agree on that as well as the fact that not a single author of the christian bible ever met jesus as none of it was written until at least 40-80 years after his death. The gospels advance the story of the crucifixion in ever expanding circles of jew hating. had jesus really been a jew do you think that they would have been used so successfully to justify centuries of institutionalized anti-jewish behavior culminating in the holocaust.

    check out the early church canon. compare it to the nuremburg laws. there are similarities that are nearly verbatim and not in a good way.

    it doesn’t really matter what religion jesus was, does it? there were lots of Jews who were completely apikorus, assimilated into the greek and roman lives and barely religious. he was lifted from human existence anyway. he no longer inhabits a human persona. try talking to any religious christian and suggest that he performed all the bodily functions of a real man and see the response you get.

    the 1st century CE was a chaotic time for jews. jerusalem was under siege, most jews were killed or banished. the religious lives of jews transitioned from a temple/priest based system to one that was portable rabbbi/synagogue based way of communal worship and no,jesus did not have a bar mitzvah.

  39. Gyges writes: GLSM,

    Remember, the Bible was written, edited and compiled long after Jesus would have been alive. That was all done by people who would have looked at his being Jewish as something that should be minimized.

    well,yeah.
    I pretty much got that. I see jesus as a mythological figure anyway.

  40. yitzak writes:

    You make zero sense. These young women were on North Korean territory. They were sent there by their boss, Al Gore and is an example of true negligence.

    If I were their families I would be suing Al Gore & his company(s) for every cent he has stolen from others – apparently about $150 million.

    okay then. that’s how you see it. would you mind sharing how you arrived at the $150 million figure?

  41. Yitzak writes:

    Psst.

    I will let you in on a secret. Students mock Turley.

    me: really. that’s not what i heard. if you have taken classes from him and believe this to be true then you are certainly entitled to your opinion of him.
    if you want to come to his blog and devalue him as a prof, you won’t be well liked here. my kid, who had Prof Turley last year thought he was marvelous. so did her classmates.
    you must not have done well in his class.

  42. GW Mom,

    I beg to differ with you. The only faith that was allowed was Judaism. You either belonged or were not welcome. That is why the story of the Sadducee, Samaritans and others are so important. These were divided up into the class sects. Money, Power, workers etc. The one commonality was Judaism. No where even in the New Testament do they renounce their birth.

  43. yitzak,

    psst I have mocked the president. Some people care and some don’t. You can mock me, see if I care. Psst.

  44. anon writes: I beg to differ with you. The only faith that was allowed was Judaism. You either belonged or were not welcome. That is why the story of the Sadducee, Samaritans and others are so important. These were divided up into the class sects. Money, Power, workers etc. The one commonality was Judaism. No where even in the New Testament do they renounce their birth.

    okay then. differ with me. judaism was not the only religion. there were pagans everywhere. belonging was not a part of daily life or commerce at all. if you refer to who could gain entrance to the temple, then that is true, it was exclusive to Jews, but not Jerusalem, the Galilee or beitlehem or anywhere else in the region.
    of course the christian bible ( I don’t like the term new testament) renounces judaism.
    don’t forget that when paul struck out converting jews to his new religion he went to the gentiles who were numerous in the region and he told them right away that they did not have to be jews. they did not have to become circumcised or keep kosher. those are two core jewish values that were and are central to how jews live.

  45. This is the definition we shall use and, how can you be a Christian if he ain’t dead yet?

    1. of or pertaining to any people not Jewish.
    2. Christian, as distinguished from Jewish.
    3. Mormon Church. not Mormon.
    4. heathen or pagan.
    5. (of a linguistic expression) expressing nationality or local origins.
    6. of or pertaining to a tribe, clan, people, nation, etc.
    –noun
    7. a person who is not Jewish, esp. a Christian.
    8. (among Mormons) a person who is not a Mormon.
    9. a heathen or pagan.
    Origin:
    1350–1400; ME < L gentīlis, equiv. to gent-, s. of gēns gens + -īlis -ile
    Dictionary.com Unabridged
    Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
    Cite This Source
    |
    gentile
    1160, from L.L. gentilis "foreign, heathen, pagan," from L. gentilis "person belonging to the same family, fellow countryman," from gentilis (adj.) "of the same family or clan," from gens (gen. gentis) "race, clan" (see gentle). Used in Vulgate to translate Gk. ethnikos, from ta ethne "the nations," which translated Heb. ha goyim "the (non-Jewish) nations." Used during 14c. to mean both "one who is not a Christian" and "one who is not a Jew."

    This is where I agree that it was written to try and convince . That is all.

  46. You know it is nice to be able to say I disagree with you and not feel that I am going to get my head ripped off. Thank you. That is a finer point of a discussion.

  47. anon writes: You know it is nice to be able to say I disagree with you and not feel that I am going to get my head ripped off. Thank you. That is a finer point of a discussion.

    was this meant for me? if so, thank you. I hope the worst thing I ever do here is get kinda sarcastic. that combined with my proclivity for having to have the last word is clearly not my best feature. i have no reason to rip your head off. i wish to co-exist here free from personality as I prefer to address content and not get involved in popularity contests.
    let us set an example as humans of moderate temperament even when we’d rather be mean-spirited and divisive.

  48. GWLSM –

    “… that combined with my proclivity for having to have the last word is clearly not my best feature.”

    Well, now it appears that I’ve had the last word. (At least until the next post).

    ;p

    (Sticking tongue out)

    Neiner-neiner-neiner!

  49. From the article:
    “Ironically, four of the trustees were denied reappointment in April as a rebuke from city council members for adhering to the library’s reconsideration process instead of complying immediately with the Maziarkas’ changing reconsideration requests. The trustees are serving until their successors are appointed.”

    from the link in the above article: http://www.ala.org/ala/alonline/currentnews/newsarchive/2009/may2009/westbendbdslammed5409.cfm

    “Reilly-Kliss [a removed trustee] went on to say that when she approached Vrana [a board member] privately after the meeting to explain the library’s reconsideration process, he stated, “I don’t care about your policy. I want those books off the shelves.” ”

    I have always said about a certain class of my and others screw-ups that generally cost money or ‘face’ that education is ongoing and expensive as he**. That’s why we should learn from our mistakes, being serially stupid can bankrupt you. This kind of venality and stupidity by the Maziarkas’ or the Council should not be costly to them IMO.

    If trustee’s were discharged for NOT violating the library’s reconsideration process (for doing their job properly) which certainly tarnishes their resumes and reputations, shouldn’t there be a cause of action against the Council and possibly the Maziarkas’? It would probably be a stretch to include the Maziarkas’ in something like that but I hate to think of these folks getting away with causing this much grief and not having any liability accrue.

    GWLawSchoolMom: Road trip!
    Boy, I wish. Due to various and sundry personal reasons my road trip days are mostly over, much to my dismay. The thought of going on a mission does my heart good though :-)

    Jill: Throw another cross on the barby.
    Evil, you are pure evil; I love it! It would be free speech at it’s finest, I can’t think of a more appropriate forum. :-)

    Mike Appleton: The Legion of Decency and C rated movies
    I used to pore over their movie lists and hope one of the condemned movies would come to our neighborhood movie house. Unfortunately my father also read their reviews and on the odd occasion one would turn up I was put under house arrest if there was a chance my youthful wandering would take me to the show.

  50. GWLawSchoolMom 1, June 9, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    Swarthmore mom writes:

    Also the evangelicals say the Catholics aren’t christian and are going to hell.

    me: Mormons are going to hell, jews too and well I’m going to hell too and their decision that I go doesn’t bother me a bit. I will be in excellent company. so why don’t we just hold hands and go together.–

    moi: Is that my friend Kathy Griffins’s hand basket you’re carrying?

  51. Many public libraries, because of physical space constraints and unrelenting budgets, have a policy of getting rid of both unread books and donated books in regular book sales to the public.

  52. Indentured Servant: Of _course_ burning one’s own book/flag/cross-on-one’s-own-lawn/whatever should be legal. The problem is these idiots are arguing they have a “right” to burn SOMEONE ELSE’S copy of the book in question. Read the whole post next time before responding.

  53. “The Christian Civil Liberties Union”

    Oxymoron.

    GWLSM,
    Try reading Hyam Maccoby, Michael Baigent and others listed in their bibliographies. While you are correct that the evidence of Jesus existence is tenuous given that the Councils of Nicaea (325CE) and Hippo (370CE) set up the religion and canon about 300 years after Jesus death, there is good speculative evidence that if he existed he lived as a Jew and might have even been married. The Christian Bible (I dislike New Testament also)was edited and redacted, with words probably put into Jesus mouth, as other words were censored. The other problem with it was that it had to make Christianity acceptable to Romans, who hated the Jews because they were the most troublesome of conquered states. This is how Pilate became a good guy and Jesus said “render unto Caesar.”

  54. mojo writes: Well, now it appears that I’ve had the last word. (At least until the next post).

    ;p

    (Sticking tongue out)

    Neiner-neiner-neiner!

    me: okay then. the gauntlet has been thrown down.
    neiner neiner is the best you can do? sorry kidlet. go back to class but before you do, bring me a Manhattan.

  55. Patty writes: moi: Is that my friend Kathy Griffins’s hand basket you’re carrying?

    no patty it’s not. I wouldn’t be seen dead carrying anything that Kathy Griffin would. I would not be seen standing in the same room with her. I don’t care what list she is on.

  56. I like how they complain about the book being “racial” -not “racist,” but “racial.” It sounds like the old farts get irritated whenever someone mentions ethnicity.

  57. Mike S writes: GWLSM,
    Try reading Hyam Maccoby, Michael Baigent and others listed in their bibliographies. While you are correct that the evidence of Jesus existence is tenuous given that the Councils of Nicaea (325CE) and Hippo (370CE) set up the religion and canon about 300 years after Jesus death, there is good speculative evidence that if he existed he lived as a Jew and might have even been married. The Christian Bible (I dislike New Testament also)was edited and redacted, with words probably put into Jesus mouth, as other words were censored. The other problem with it was that it had to make Christianity acceptable to Romans, who hated the Jews because they were the most troublesome of conquered states. This is how Pilate became a good guy and Jesus said “render unto Caesar.”

    I’ve read them and I’ve read widely on the subject of Christian anti-semitism. One of the best books out there, Christian Anti-Semitism, A History of Hate by William Nicholls, an Anglican priest who quotes from Maccoby as well as other very well respected historians. My problem is not whether jesus lived or if he lived as a jew but the central core thought that a man could be divine as opposed to just being a decent guy with some original ideas. if he lived, and if he lived as a jew, his story in the christian bible would be a very very different one.

  58. yitzak, psst. I’ll let you in on a secret. No one cares whether you like Prof. Turley or Al Gore.

  59. GWLSM –

    Ha, just having a bit of fun with you and your last word obsession. No Manhattan here, but could I interest you in a Cadillac Margarita?

    Tequila (preferably top-shelf, but whatever is handy is fine)
    1 oz. Grand Marnier
    Finish with some lime juice

    But only if you’re in for the night. It’s definitely an “I’m not going anywhere tonight” libation …

    **************

    Mike S:

    ““The Christian Civil Liberties Union”

    Oxymoron.”

    Nice …

  60. Mojo,

    Oh good it’s cocktail hour.

    Shortly before prohibition was enacted the great composer Charles Ives was so worried that he wouldn’t be able to find vermouth for his nightly Manhattan, that he bought something like 10 cases worth.

  61. By the way (since we’ve drifted so far from the topic) Baby Be-Bop (and the others in tis series by Ms. Block) are really good books.

  62. “I’ve read them and I’ve read widely on the subject of Christian anti-semitism. One of the best books out there, Christian Anti-Semitism, A History of Hate by William Nicholls, an Anglican priest.”

    GWLSM,
    I should have known due to much of the comments you’ve made on this thread and elsewhere. The good thing though is that I haven’t read or come across Nicholls and I’m always looking for a good book to read on these subjects.

  63. Mojo writes: Ha, just having a bit of fun with you and your last word obsession. No Manhattan here, but could I interest you in a Cadillac Margarita?

    Tequila (preferably top-shelf, but whatever is handy is fine)
    1 oz. Grand Marnier
    Finish with some lime juice

    But only if you’re in for the night. It’s definitely an “I’m not going anywhere tonight” libation …

    me: of course you were having fun. me too. sorry, but tequila just is not my beverage of choice. Cadillac margaritas, or any other type are for beer drinkers who want to pretend that they are sophisticated and can really drink with the big boys. margaritas are not a cocktail for grown ups, they are a way to make nasty, cheap tequila taste better, go down faster so as to insure a massive hangover the next day. I vomited up enough tequila in college and learned my lesson.
    why not try a Manhattan. Get a hold of the best boutique bourbon you can find and some really really fine sweet vermouth. The cherry isn’t bad either.

  64. gyges writes: Oh good it’s cocktail hour.

    Somewhere is in the world it is 5 PM and it’s cocktail hour, my one strict observance.

  65. GWLSM,
    I love good tequila, especially Patron Gold. To me tequila tastes best and is easiest on my stomach. I never liked beer, first tried bourbon then went to single malt scotch, but found my love in Cuervo 1890. However, health concerns have now stopped my drinking of anything alcoholic or smoking anything herbal. Ah but I remember those times well and relish those memories. So as you celebrate your cocktail hour raise your glass to me, for the days gone by and the lack of a good buzz in my life.

  66. Mike S writes: GWLSM,
    I should have known due to much of the comments you’ve made on this thread and elsewhere. The good thing though is that I haven’t read or come across Nicholls and I’m always looking for a good book to read on these subjects.

    Me: what I like best about Nicholls is that he is not a Jew. Gives him a certain credibility. There is another author on the subject Amy-Jill Levine who wrote a book called “reassessing jewish christian relations” she is a professor of divinity at vanderbilt, is jewish and feminist and one of the most articulate and level headed speakers on the subject of the new christian philo-semitism, which is not based in love but in the end-times hoo ha that seeks to co-opt jewish symbols, liturgy and traditions for the purpose of evangelism.

  67. Mike S writes: GWLSM,
    I love good tequila, especially Patron Gold. To me tequila tastes best and is easiest on my stomach. I never liked beer, first tried bourbon then went to single malt scotch, but found my love in Cuervo 1890. However, health concerns have now stopped my drinking of anything alcoholic or smoking anything herbal. Ah but I remember those times well and relish those memories. So as you celebrate your cocktail hour raise your glass to me, for the days gone by and the lack of a good buzz in my life.

    me: Mike, you know I love ya, but Tequile is probably the most vile substance ever to be distilled. my squeeze drinks it — he likes to pour silver patron neat and add fresh squeezed lime juice with a dash of simple syrup.
    sorry you can’t participate any longer… but did you ever like rum? I mean the really good ones? There is this rum that comes from Orinoco that has floral top notes and has a delicate smooth vanilla finish. I like to sip this neat. slowly.
    as for single malts, i prefer the islay and skye malts. oban, talisker, caol islay, lagavulan, bunahaban. if I have misspelled any of these it is because I only know their names phonetically and can’t check the labels in the bar, because whiskey is not a necessity and we have not restocked lately.

    this is what I will do: next cocktail, I will lift my glass to you.

  68. GWLSM,
    The only time I liked rum was in the “Samoan Fog Cutters” served at Trader Vic’s in the Plaza Hotel in NYC. Five shots of white rum, 1 shot of 150proof rum and a mixture of pineapple and orange juice, with lime. Heaven, but paralyzing.
    That was in my pre-hippie days in the early and mid 60’s. After that I had rum and coke a few times and it made me sick. Every time I think of rum today the rum and coke sickness comes to mind, rather than the “Fog Cutter.”

    As for tequila being vile, I admit it is an acquired taste, but then aren’t all liquors. Thank you in advance for the toast.

  69. Mike S writes: GWLSM,
    The only time I liked rum was in the “Samoan Fog Cutters” served at Trader Vic’s in the Plaza Hotel in NYC. Five shots of white rum, 1 shot of 150proof rum and a mixture of pineapple and orange juice, with lime. Heaven, but paralyzing.
    That was in my pre-hippie days in the early and mid 60’s. After that I had rum and coke a few times and it made me sick. Every time I think of rum today the rum and coke sickness comes to mind, rather than the “Fog Cutter.”

    I adore Trader Vic’s. And I don’t remember pre-hippie days. The beatnik days sort of melted into hippie days. My only bad experiences with rum are as follows: a pre-party at this bar, a real shady polynesian inspired dive, that made a drink called Tropical Storm. It cost $5 back then, a real investment, was made with I don’t know how many kinds of rum and they’d only sell you one. we went on to two other parties, one thrown by my then dentist who seriously had the dreamiest green eyes and always wanted to talk while he had the gas turned up full blast with his fingers in my mouth (in a professional way) and the only guys there were former classmates — a realllllly dullllll bunch. we then went on to a party at a gallery. all the men were gay. more rum was consumed and I was driven home barfing out of the window of my friend’s car.
    the second was my very first night in new orleans 2 decades ago and a take out hurricane and then another and another while we crawled jazz places on Bourbon Street. never felt a thing until the next morning when I could not lift my head from the pillow.

  70. Shoot. Anything that’s truly anti-christian, can’t be all that bad. May have to pick me up a copy – before they literally become hot off the press.

  71. DAVID LETTERMAN’S HATE, ETC. !

    David Letterman’s hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
    Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
    Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
    Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!
    While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
    (For even more stunning information, visit MSN and type in “Separation of Raunch and State” and “Bible Verses Obama Avoids.”)

  72. Leah writes: Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!

    me: “persons perceived to be jewish” means what exactly?

    evangelical christians have not always been israel’s best friends. they have an agenda which requires that Jews move to Israel to advance their end times hoo-ha which will result in the death of all who do not believe jesus is the messiah, which means all Jews.

    David Letterman is a late night tv show host and a comedian. he tells jokes. sometimes they are funny and sometimes they are not very funny and it’s all a matter of perception on the part of the audience. i guess you didn’t think he was funny when he did his Sarah Palin jokes. I did. see, this is how it works: over here you got the real world and over there you have the joke world. all public figures are grist for the comedy mill. that’s the way it goes.
    I have no idea what most jewish leaders think about sarah palin. it isn’t like we have a monthly newsletter that publishes the poll numbers, like 9 out of 10 jewish leaders think she really does look like a slutty flight attendant. that was a joke. see how jokes work now?
    some people might find that funny and some won’t.

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