Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has come up with a sure-fire way to improving the performance of students in the low-ranked state: lower the academic standards so more students can pass.
Jindal has signed a law that creates a new and easier public school curriculum despite the fact that educators have objected that it will result in high school graduates with poor understanding of basic mathematics and written English.
Under the new law, eighth-grade students who are 15 years old and fail the mathematics and English sections of the LEAP (Louisiana Educational Assessment Program) test while to move on to the ninth grade. This reverses the prior state law that insists, quite reasonably, that you pass the eighth grade to get into the ninth grade.
This is called the “alternative diploma” program and passed the Louisiana Senate unanimously.
This is a brilliant idea. Consider all of the problems that we could solve by simply creating an “alternative” system — previously known as flunking. We could have zero drunk drivers, completely clean air, and no rickets. World hunger can be a thing of the past if Jindal simply defines a full nutritional diet as 200 calories a day.
It is all a matter of definition. No child will be left behind because no child can fail in Louisiana. Under the Jindal educational system, kids will soon be counting by thumping their feet on the ground. One does not have to know one’s ABCs — A and B will be sufficient (Cs are overblown anyway).
Of course, Jindal may be taking a lesson from Washington where failure is often redefined as success. The Bush administration repeatedly tried (and in some cases succeeded) in lowering environmental standards to show success, here and here and here.
For the full story, click here.
Louisiana has elected Alfred E. Newman Govenor. Srsly.
http://laughingsquid.com/alfred-e-neuman-hopeless-poster-by-mad-magazine/
This is real:
http://www.republicandepot.com/Bobby_Jindal_for_President_2012_Gear_s/7490.htm?gclid=CN7D2PLFuZsCFdFL5QodSFbY_A
Wow.
For contrast, I’ve been to schools all over the country, but also I’ve been to Louisiana public schools. I didn’t think it was possible to dumb them down any further and even maintain the pretense it’s a school instead of publicly funded baby sitting. Way to go Bobby! I guess your plan is to keep a Neocon in state office by reducing the population into speaking in grunts. Pssst! If you make them too dumb, you eventually won’t have to worry with that pesky voting at all anymore!
Nice job, Gov. Jackass and the half-wits in Baton Rouge!
Correction.
Nice job, Gov. Ignorant Myopic Foolish Jackass and the bribe swilling incompetents in Baton Rouge.
This certainly explains a lot about that rebuttal speech . . .
So pathetic! They really can’t get much lower. It’s incredible to see the contrast of Orleans vs. the neighboring Jefferson Parish LEAP results.
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3ALuqWMYYYVKUJ%3Ablog.nola.com%2Fgraphics%2F2009%2F05%2FMetro-Area-Test-Results0521.pdf+Leap+test+2009+Douglas+HS&hl=en&gl=us
Why am I not surpised…. Here’s George Carlin for ya:
(…) right away they start talking about education. That’s the big answer to everything. Education! They say ‘We need more money for education. We need more books, more teachers, more classrooms, more schools. We need more testing for the kids!” You say to ‘em “Well, you know, we’ve tried all of that and the kids still can’t pass the tests!” “Ah, don’t you worry about that, we’re gonna lower the passing grades!”
And that’s what they do in a lot of these schools now, they lower the passing grades so more kids can pass. More kids pass, the school looks good, everybody’s happy, the IQ of the country slips another two or three points, and pretty soon all you’ll need to get into college is a ***** pencil! “Got a pencil? Get the ***** in there, it’s physics!”
If they spell there name right do they get extra points? Well heck some would flunk out anyway.
Still politics,but of a better nature.RE:Senator Al Franken:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/07/03/al_franken/
This actually is a good idea. It is far better to keep the students in school learning something than kick them out onto the streets.
Buddha: “Nice job, Gov. Ignorant Myopic Foolish Jackass and the bribe swilling incompetents in Baton Rouge.”
Well said; well spoken.
Perhaps Jindal is a Jack Handey Deep Thoughts kind of guy.
“Instead of having “answers” on a math test, they should just call them “impressions,” and if you got a different “impression,” so what, can’t we all be brothers?”
How do you repair a terrible school system, historically underfunded and limited by a political philosophy that is against spending money on anything but weapons, police and sops to industry? You elect Bobby Jindal and lower the criteria.
Dis splains evry thang. Dis is why we did not evacuate for Katrina. Wees couldnt reed da syines to tale us wich ways to go.
Watt U call a deer that aint got no I’s?
I got no I deer
Watt U call a deer that aint got no I’s standin still?
I still got no I deer
Go Bobby Go!!!! who dat aint gone get no edumication
I Remember being busted flat in B.R. waitn fur a train and I’s feelin faded as my jeans. Bobby thumbed a diesel down that rode us all the way to N.O. I pulled my harpoon out of my dirty red bandanna,
I was playing soft while Bobby sang the blues.
Windshield wipers slapping time, I was holding Bobby’s hand in mine,
We sang every song that driver knew.
Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.
And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,
You know feeling good was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.
From the Kentucky coal mines to the California sun,
Hey, Bobby shared the secrets of my soul.
Through all kinds of weather, through everything we done,
Hey Bobby baby? kept me from the cold.
One day up near Salinas,I let him slip away,
He’s looking for that home and I hope he finds it,
But I’d trade all of my tomorrows for just one yesterday
To be holding Bobby’s body next to mine.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing, that’s all that Bobby left me, yeah,
But feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,
Hey, feeling good was good enough for me, hmm hmm,
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.
Yeah,
I think I hate Bobby Jindal more than Fletch hated Tommy LaSorda.
Hasn’t Louisiana already lowered its standards by electing Jindahl as its Governor? Alaska? Texas?
I think I started noticing something like this when my oldest was in elementary school. they would have these ‘graduation’ ceremonies where every kid got a medal or ribbon for something. Sure, there were ribbons for excellence in math or the kid who read the most books or attendance or for other accomplishments and then there were ribbons for exchanging oxygen to carbon dioxide, it seems. schools with cheerleading teams decided that any girl who wanted to cheer was admitted to the team regardless of whether she could clap her hands and say “ready, okay” at the same time. every kid who wanted to play little league was on the team even s/he could hot hit, catch, throw or run.
the playing field became so level that kids who really worked hard at academics or sports never felt that their hard work was noticed in any real or specific way because the self esteem of kids who had no talent for sports and who did not apply themselves academically had feelings too and that their need for recognition was more important than their actual ability.
there are some pools that do not have a shallow end, and should not have a shallow end and in some ways this brings us back to the discussion about grades, test scores and college/professional school admissions.
my feelings about education in general are well-known here. students have to do the work. it is their job to go to class, do the assignments, pass the tests in exchange for a diploma. it is no different from the workplace where the employee has to show up, do his/her assigned work and is evaluated by his/her manager at the end of the year in exchange for compensation.
but my question is this: is there really something so wrong with failure?
GLSM,
I think music programs have it right. No one says “no you can’t be in band, you’re not good enough.” They just have two (or more) levels, the talented (or willing to work harder) top band and the everyone can join band. I meet more people who when they find out that I’m a musician respond with “Oh I played ____ in highschool, I wasn’t very good, but boy did I love it.”
Competition is great, but so is understanding that you don’t have to be good at something to have a great time doing it. Deep ends and shallow ends are not mutually exclusive.
Gyges:
I don’t think you want a “wader” doing brain surgery. This self esteem stuff is way out of hand. When I was a kid if you couldn’t make the team you joined intramurals or you played in the sandlot league.
Have you ever seen the movie “Idiocracy”?
A society must have competition and reward it’s winners to be able to move forward. Some people are going to fail and some are going to win. You cannot legislate equality of ability.
IS,
Did you stop reading my post at the end, or keep reading imaginary stuff so that you would have a point to argue? I clearly was talking about school activities, and was responding to a post about school activities, in a discussion about schools.
A little more on topic: If you think the lowering of standards is about anything other then federal funds, you are barking up the wrong tree.
I always loved the pun hidden in that turn of phrase.
Gyges:
You said “I think music programs have it right. No one says “no you can’t be in band, you’re not good enough.””
I took that to mean that you agree with this building self esteem stuff. Everyone gets to play no matter their ability.
Gyges:
the more students that pass the better the system looks.
It probably is about time to have a 2 track school system-college bound and vocational. A good many children do not come to school prepared or willing to do the work. The home environment has something to do with success in school. Parents need to take education seriously and appreciate the public school system. But since it is “free” they do not appreciate it and take it for granted. If they had to pay 5-7 k per year they would take it seriously.
The little sobs that disrupt class should be learning how to change tires or cut hair.
IS,
You’re right in the fact that I think schools should allow everyone to participate even if they stink at the activity. You should also note that what I supported was a tiered system, which rewards achievement while allowing those who want to try something new out the opportunity.
The logical extension of what I said is NOT people who dabble in medicine should be allowed to perform surgery. You were setting up a straw man based on what you assumed my position was. That is something you seem to enjoy doing, and something I’ll call you on 9 time out of 10.
Gyges:
“The logical extension of what I said is NOT people who dabble in medicine should be allowed to perform surgery.”
Well actually it is.
Gyges writes: think music programs have it right. No one says “no you can’t be in band, you’re not good enough.” They just have two (or more) levels, the talented (or willing to work harder) top band and the everyone can join band. I meet more people who when they find out that I’m a musician respond with “Oh I played ____ in highschool, I wasn’t very good, but boy did I love it.”
Competition is great, but so is understanding that you don’t have to be good at something to have a great time doing it. Deep ends and shallow ends are not mutually exclusive.
me: hmmm. kids know more about who they are and what they are capable of that adults give them credit for knowing. Talented kids don’t pretend that they can’t hit the ball, play the violin, sing or do calculus in their heads because there is a kid who can’t do that. Why encourage kids into believing that their level of ability is just as good when clearly it isn’t? why not help them find something that they can be good at or work to become better at instead of giving them a ribbon for being able to stand up and receive it?
I played piano and I sucked. my hands were too small and I could not reach an octave. and I hated practicing. years later i found the guitar and not only did I get good at it, it was portable and was a guy magnet. I would have hated having to stand up to get a ribbon for being awful at piano when everyone would know that I sucked at it.
when states like Louisiana fail to prepare students for high school what are their chances of being able to compete with students whose states gave them a better chance because they held them to higher standards? why make these kids believe that their A’s are the same as the A’s my kid earned in her high school? Why lead them on with lies?
Gyges:
you like to throw that straw man arguement around quite a bit. It appears that whenever you are unable to refute something you say it is a straw man arguement to dismiss it or as a refutation.
I clearly understood you to mean that all children should play in the band no matter what their ability. the only reason to allow someone that sucks to play an intsrument in a school band is to engender self esteem by way of parental and public praise during a concert.
This can lead to one of 2 things-first the child will believe they are actually good, see American Idol tryouts and watch the faces of those that clearly suck. Their parents have told them how good they are and they believe it. When reality strikes they are usually devastated and cannot believe that they actually suck. This is a false sense of self esteem unrelated to reality.
Secondly the child knows they suck and does it because the parents expect it. This does not end well either because they can grow up to be pleasers. Either way it is an evasion of reality.
The best thing to nurture self esteem is to find something a child is good at and encourage them to master it. Self esteem comes through hard work and mastery of a task(s). False self esteem leads to doctors thinking they are capable surgeons when they are not.
IS,
Well if you’d actually address what I was saying, you wouldn’t be fighting a straw man.
Here’s a quick exercise for you: Do a scan of this page for the following words: self esteem, ego, confidence, or any other synonym you can think of.
GLSM,
I’m not sure why both you and IS seem to miss the part of my example where students who are good at stuff are rewarded with a chance to do the activity at a higher level. Maybe I didn’t emphasize it enough, but it’s pretty implicate in the wording.
Nobody is pretending that the people at the lower level are as good (either through talent or hard work) as those in the higher level, they’re just encouraged to participate. The whole of my point is that sometimes the basis for inclusiveness in school programs isn’t about avoiding the bruising of egos, but instead exposure to new experiences.
In this specific case IS and I agree that it’s all about the need for the system to appear to be successful.
Gyges:
I see it now “top band and everyone can join band”.
I misread this to be like first chair second chair, etc. So you are saying 2 distinct bands that have different recitals, etc.?
If you are then I tender my apologies.
IS,
Accepted.
Gyges writes: GLSM,
I’m not sure why both you and IS seem to miss the part of my example where students who are good at stuff are rewarded with a chance to do the activity at a higher level. Maybe I didn’t emphasize it enough, but it’s pretty implicate in the wording.
Nobody is pretending that the people at the lower level are as good (either through talent or hard work) as those in the higher level, they’re just encouraged to participate. The whole of my point is that sometimes the basis for inclusiveness in school programs isn’t about avoiding the bruising of egos, but instead exposure to new experiences.
me: I got your example, I thought, but not all schools have two bands, one for the really good musicians, one for the so-so
I think all kids should be encouraged to participate and to practice. I think all kids should be given the opportunity to paint or sing or play sports. I just don’t think that at the end of the year that those who excel should be given the same ribbon as those who do not and that kids who do nothing should be rewarded for doing nothing.
eniobob, Obama shockingly got through to the Presidency even though he’s not a natural born citizen, but it’s possible by 2012 there will be requirements for presidential candidates to prove natural born citizenship (I know there’s a bill requiring that), & I’m thinking (but not 100% sure) that Jindal also failed to meet the requirement that *both* of his parents were citizens at the time of birth.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Cindy,
More facts, less tin foil.
Cindy said Obama is not a natural born citizen, but that is a lie. This question has been thoroughly reviewed on this and other sites. Obama was born in the United States, in Hawaii, in 1961, and therefore is a natural born citizen. He has produced his birth certificate and posted it on the internet for all to see. He has already complied with the pending bill. The Pulitzer Prize winning journalists at Politifact.com examined it and checked with Hawaiian authorities to verify it.
The charges (made on this site) that the certificate is a forgery are false, and have even been rejected by the right wingers at WorldNetDaily.com. It meets the requirements of section 7211 the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, which set national standards for birth certificates. The Certificate is a Certification of Live Birth, which is the only type of birth certificate that Hawaii now issues. It is based on a personal examination of official birth records by the responsible state officials. There is no other certificate that Hawaii officials release.
There is no requirement in the Constitution that both parents be citizens at the time of birth, and Chester Arthur’s father was not a citizen at the time of his birth.
Sorry, but there is scant tolerance for birther nonsense at this site.
SEC. 7211. MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR BIRTH CERTIFICATES.
(a) Definition.–In this section, the term “birth
certificate” means a certificate of birth–
(1) for an individual (regardless of where born)–
(A) who is a citizen or national of the
United States at birth; and
(B) whose birth is registered in the United
States; and
(2) that–
(A) is issued by a Federal, State, or local
government agency or authorized custodian of
record and produced from birth records
maintained by such agency or custodian of
record; or
(B) is an authenticated copy, issued by a
Federal, State, or local government agency or
authorized custodian of record, of an original
certificate of birth issued by such agency or
custodian of record.
Here is the text
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Intelligence_Reform_and_Terrorism_Prevention_Act_of_2004
I see Republicans are now even adopting tactis from the progresssive handbook.
.
Vince Treacy, sorry I didn’t check back ’til now & found your reply to my natural born citizenship comment, where you say:
“there is scant tolerance for birther nonsense at this site”
but I was talking not about the whole birth certificate issue, but about the requirement that both parents be citizens for someone to be considered more than a citizen, and more than a native citizen, but a *natural born* citzen.
*However*, since you have raised the “birther” issue, just wondering, do you know if Lt Quarles Harris Jr had a chance to reveal the whereabouts of Obama’s birth certificate & other document info before he was shot in front of church? You know, Lt Harris that had just agreed to cooperate in the investigation of the presidential passport breach…the one where the 2 guys involved just happened to work for Obama’s intelligence advisor. Though Harris was shot right after he agreed to cooperate, maybe he had a chance to give someone the info.
But like I said before, we really don’t need to know if he was an Indonesian citizen or whatever…we just need to have a little finding of fact into the legislative intent behind the Article 2 natural born citizen requirement.
No sources.
Unsupported allegations.
Inherently incredible charges.
Not up to the standards of this site,
Professor Turley and others here have already discussed the constitutional question, answered on the basis of the language and purpose of Article II of the Constitution. For this Clause, we know of the concern that the founders addressed:
QUOTE
Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution states in part:
“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”
Under the 12th amendment, vice presidents must also be natural born.
The requirement of being “natural born” appears to have been initially suggested by John Jay — who wrote a letter to George Washington on the requirement. In his July 25, 1787 letter, Jay wrote:
Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Command in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.
Some Framers were probably concerned with a desire among some to have a King, including some foreign princes who might rule the nation. (The theory that it was written to block Alexander Hamilton who was born in the West Indies seems apocryphal since he would have been grandfathered into eligibility at the time of the Constitution’s ratification.)
UNQUOTE http://jonathanturley.org/2008/03/06/the-supreme-redux-is-john-mccain-ineligible-to-be-president/
So the founders were worried about foreign-born leaders coming to the U.S. It was a serious concern. In the early years of the Republic, people could have sought out foreign noblemen or military leaders to take over. The natural born citizen clause prevented this option.
Obama does not present this problem. He was born in the United States. He has been a citizen since infancy. He does not fit into the class of foreign leaders, like German Princes or relative of Napoleon, who could have become U.S. President after being naturalized by Congress, that represented the danger that Jay suggested to Washington.
This is relevant to Obama’s BIRTH CERTIFICATE exactly how? This happened in April 2008. Harris and the co-conspirator, apparently accessed a passport, not a birth certificate. He was cooperating, presumably for leniency. This is pretty far afield, even for the birthers.
QUOTE Washington Times
Saturday, April 19, 2008
Key witness in passport fraud case fatally shot
A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.
Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department’s Criminal Investigations Division.
Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car.
Emergency medics pronounced him dead at the scene.
City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators.
“We don’t have any information right now that connects his murder to that case,” Cmdr. Anzallo said.
Police say a “shot spotter” device helped an officer locate Lt. Harris.
A State Department spokeswoman yesterday declined to comment, saying the investigation into
the passport fraud is ongoing.
The Washington Times reported April 5 that contractors for the State Department had improperly accessed passport information for presidential candidates Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain, which resulted in a series of firings that reached into the agency’s top ranks.
One agency employee, who was not identified in documents filed in U.S. District Court, was implicated in a credit-card fraud scheme after Lt. Harris told federal authorities he obtained “passport information from a co-conspirator who works for the U.S. Department of State.”
UNQUOTE
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/print/
I could never make this up. This is on the web: “Don’t know about 9/11 conspiracy, but do know from DC source that an Administration team is working on perfecting a forgery of the long-form birth certificate. They plan on presenting it in a month or so. The source is FBI agent who has drinking buddy from University of Illinois now in the Administration. Its second hand, but the source is supposed to be solid.”
What a solid source. Anonymous poster. DC source. FBI agent. Drinking buddy from UI. Now in the Administration. Second hand but solid. What could be more believable? This is mother’s milk to the birthers.
It goes on and on: “They have already prepared the forgery with special paper and ink. The document was printed on a fully functional 1960 Heidelberger printing press located at a print museum in Toronto. Access was arranged by a trustee of the museum who is connected to a large Canadian banking/investment firm with major US interests.
“The blanks in the forged form were filled in with an old Underwood Manual typewriter bought at an estate sale in Skokie, IL. The raised seal was the easiest piece to fake, since you can by a special order corporate seal from just about any online office supply store.
“The only reason they haven’t rolled out the foregery yet is that it is “seasoning” under mild UV light and a back and forth rotation between between a humidifier and a sauna. Get ready….one to two months tops
“I also said they’d have to get a 1960s Printing Press, and indeed, by this information, looks like they found one.
The banking connection is disturbing too, gives more credibility to this also. The details here are solid.”
Has the poster ever considered what would happen when Republican officials in Hawaii take a look in their files, find that their originals differ from the forgery, and do their public duty to expose it?
If this ever happened, and it did not, any sane official getting wind of it would have said “Does the term ‘plumbers’ ring a bell with you?’”
Cindy said “but I was talking not about the whole birth certificate issue, but about the requirement that both parents be citizens for someone to be considered more than a citizen, and more than a native citizen, but a *natural born* citzen.”
Cindy, there is no language anywhere in the Constitution that says that both parents must be citizens for someone to be a natural born citizen. If you find that language, please let us all know about it.
Sorry, everyone, I posted the Mark Sanford joke. You got me. I used a pen name because the joke was so lame I did not want to be associated.
Advertisement today in the Washington Times
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17107553/Kerchner-et-al-v-Obama-Congress-et-al-Advertorial-in-20090706-Issue-Wash-Times
There is a lot of dispute whether the founders intended to adopt Vattel. As far as the legislative intent goes, we know the founders were worried about grown up princes and generals, not infants.
We the People of the United States ratified the Constitution of the United States. Its text is available for all to read. We did not ratify Vattel. Most of us never heard of him. So his words have no bearing on the issue.
Vattel is not the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that children born on United States soil are citizens by virtue of their birth even if their parents were Chinese.
All of the issues about citizen parents have been debated on this site. Put Donofrio into the Search window to review the postings.
So the paid ad in the Washington Times is just another birther screed.
Bdaman posted the statement by Kerchner, plaintiff in Mario Apuzzo’s soon- to- be-dismissed federal lawsuit based on the theories of Leo Donofrio that were dismissed by the Supreme Court last year.
Vince Treacy wrote:
Obama does not present this problem. He was born in the United States. He has been a citizen since infancy. He does not fit into the class of foreign leaders, like German Princes or relative of Napoleon, who could have become U.S. President after being naturalized by Congress, that represented the danger that Jay suggested to Washington.
However the other clause in the constitution is “been fourteen Years a resident within the United States”.
Is this consecutive? or can I have a child born Jus Soli, take him back and forth to a country of my choice, educate him/her as I see fit with the hopes of one day being president of the U.S.
What makes the difference for being a Senator/Congressman vs Pres. and Vice Pres.?
To many questions surrounding the issue, back and forth that only the Supreme Court should decide.
You also wrote that Lt Quarles Harris Jr was, cooperating, presumably for leniency.
Well, what was his barganning chip? again more questions.
Helen Thomas and Chip Reed of the press corp said it best this past week.
bdaman: “However the other clause in the constitution is “been fourteen Years a resident within the United States”.
What is your point. Obama has been 14 years resident of the US, at least from 1995 to the present. This is not an issue.
“What makes the difference for being a Senator/Congressman vs Pres. and Vice Pres.?” What do you mean?
An awful lot of misinformation has been posted on this site by birthers. It is a good time to clear some scrub. Bvm used to worry that Hawaiian Homelands did not accept the COLB. That theory is officially dead:
QUOTE Holdouts, pointed to an obsolete web page on the Department of Hawaii Homelands web site that said the “long form” was preferable for them. However, reflecting the fact that long forms are no longer available, the DHHL web site has been updated and now says:
“The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”
Source: Dr. Conspiracy at the Obama Conspiracy site:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/07/hawaii-homelands-declares-short-form-good-enough/comment-page-7/#comment-13052
I recommend Dr. Conspiracy highly to all the vistitors to this site who want to drill down into birther weeds.
Dr Conspiracy has a long discussion of de Vattel’s views at his site:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/06/reply-to-cort-wrotnowski/#more-3774
“What makes the difference for being a Senator/Congressman vs Pres. and Vice Pres.?” What do you mean?
To be a Senator or Congressman one need only to be a citizen, to be a Pres. or Vice Pres. You need to be natural born.
The fact is, natural born is not defined anywhere. Why did the framers feel that they needed to seperate those two. They could of left natural out. Why does Obama post native born on Fight the Smears. He supposedly is a constitutional lawyer, he should know the difference.
Bdaman wrote “The fact is, natural born is not defined anywhere. Why did the framers feel that they needed to seperate those two. They could of left natural out.”
Please read my posts. JT and I have posted the reasons the founders wanted the President to be natural born. They did not want foreign princes or generals sweeping in and getting citizenship from Congress, and taking over the Presidency.
JT posted the letter from John Jay on this site, and I reposted it. Go back and read it again. Jay wanted a check on “the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government.” The Offices of the National Government are the President and Vice-President. That was their intent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer.
The Senators and Representatives (and Governator Arnold) have far more limited impact, power and influence than the national officers. The admission of naturalized citizens had a far smaller effect in Congress.
“Why does Obama post native born on Fight the Smears. He supposedly is a constitutional lawyer, he should know the difference.” What are you talking about? That site posted his birth certificate to show that he was born in the US, and was a natural born citizen qualified for the Presidency. They had to post it after the birthers had circulated their lies that he was born in Kenya or somewhere else. Where did you get “native born”? Are you pasting up stuff from the birther internet underworld?
You sure have a lot of questions. How about posting your views with some support for a change.
This is the link to the birth certificate on Fight the Smears:
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
The Truth About Barack’s Birth Certificate
Smears claiming Barack Obama doesn’t have a birth certificate aren’t actually about that piece of paper — they’re about manipulating people into thinking Barack is not an American citizen.
The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
bdaman, what are you talking about? You wrote that he is “a native citizen of the United States of America.” Once again, what do you mean by native?
Obama was born in the United States, in Hawaii, in 1961, and was subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. at that time (as he was not the child of diplomats). He therefore became a citizen of the United States by birth, not by naturalization. 14th Amendment. He was therefore “a natural born Citizen … of the United States” and thus eligible to be President. Art II, sec. 1.
Sorry, bdaman, I see now that you are quoting the Fight the Smears website:
QUOTE
“Smears claiming Barack Obama doesn’t have a birth certificate aren’t actually about that piece of paper — they’re about manipulating people into thinking Barack is not an American citizen.
“The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.”UNQUOTE
Obama is a citizen and a natural born citizen. He is the President of the United States.
Vince:
I would just save your fine arguments for citizenship and paste them every time some clown like Cindy thinks he is an African or Alien or Malaysian.
This is getting tiring even for a conservative.
Hey republicans he is a citizen so give up, spend your time fighting his policies.
Vince Treacy, I certainly understand all of your arguments and as IS said above, spend your time fighting his policies.
The problem is that he has either created this and/or is simply laughing as we hash it out in cyber land.
Why, knowing the constitution says natural born citizen, put native born citizen regardless if they mean the same thing.
You referenced WND above and the BC issue but they are still pushing it with bill boards and thier WH reporter asked Gibbs last week why not release the original and today they say that the hospital where the President says he was born can not confirm or deny his birth without his permission.
The rumor mill was rampant that he has spent over a million dollars in legal fees and we now no it’s true. As the President, even by executive order, could tell Hawaii to release all information about him. He could of gave a million plus to feed the children of Kenya. Speaking of which he will be in Africa but has no plans to stop in Kenya. Thats a great way to pay homage to the country where his father was born and I don’t buy into his excuse for not doing so.
Vine Tracy I appreciate your side of the argument, I really do, however appreciate mine that all I’m saying is there is to many questions about him and his life that has gone unanswered that he could of quashed long ago regardless of a COLB that was posted on line. I have come to believe that like 9-11, we may never know.
To bdaman, the questions about Obama’s life have been answered. You just do not want to hear those answers. Even conservatives are getting tired of the fringe birthers.
Why don’t you answer a few questions yourself for the readers out there? Why does it matter if an Obama website used the words native born instead of natural born, if they mean the same thing? What is the legal effect of this? Tell us. My answer is that the use of alternate words that mean the same thing makes no difference at all.
Do you or do you not hold that the posted COLB is a forgery, as alleged by another poster at this site? What is your answer? Probably that you do not know, but that can only because you do not want to look at the evidence. As I said, numerous experts have said it is not a forgery, and even World Net Daily agreed. I hold that it is valid and genuine. What is your answer?
Obama is not going to Kenya. So what?
You again say that he will not release the original. This has been explained over and over again. There is no other form that can be released. Hawaii now only issues computer-generated Certificates of Life Birth (COLB) to everyone who applies. I have posted the federal law, enacted in the fight against terrorism, that sets standards for birth certificates.
Neither Obama nor any other applicant can get any other form, whether it is called long form or vault copy or anything else. He has released the only birth certificate that Hawaii can give him. When the reporters asked the Press Secretary about the birth certificate, he responded truthfully that it had been released. That is your answer.
Obama has released his birth certificate. It is valid. It shows he was born in the United States. Get over it. Move on.
You wrote that “As the President, even by executive order, could tell Hawaii to release all information about him.” All the lawyers at this site will tell you that under the Constitution and our federal system, the President cannot issue an Executive Order to a State. Executive Orders cover the Executive Branch. Congress may sometimes enact legislation that affects States, and may delegate some authority to the President, but it has not done so here. The lawyers here will confirm this. Please try to learn something,
The rumor that he has spent millions in legal fees is false. Much of the legal representation was given free by voluteers. Other representation has been by governmental bodies against clearly frivolous lawsuits.
Here is a link to a conservative reporter in a conservative paper, the DC Examiner. Try to learn from him:
http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-St-Louis-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m7d6-My-last-word-on-the-Obama-birth-certificate-conspiracy-theory#comments
I have had my say and answered your questions. Now it is your turn.
Coprrection: Computer-generated Certifications of Live Birth (COLB) are now issued. “Certificates of Live Birth” are no longer issued, so Obama cannot get one 9even though the birthers keep asking for one). As noted, the COLB is a valid “birth certificate” under Hawaii law, under the federal law posted above, and under the pending House bill to require Obama to prove his birth if he runs for reelection in 2012.
The COLB was not forged.
The DC Examiner link above includes comment by Dr. Krawetz, a real person and a real doctor with real credentials, not a pseudonym, and a link to his research posted at: http://hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/235-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis-Part-II.html
QUOTE
Dr. Neal Krawetz says: With regards to Argument #2: My last name is spelled “Krawetz”. I have presented at numerous conferences on forensic topics including image analysis. For related works to this topic, see my BlackHat, CISCON, and Lockdown presentations on image analysis and digital photo forensics.
While “Ron Polarik” says that his name is an alias and gives unverifiable and questionable credentials, I am a real person and my credentials are verifiable.
July 6, 9:33 PM UNQUOTE
The argument that the COLB was forged is on a par with the argument that the 1969 Moon landing was staged on Earth. The COLB is in fact a valid birth certificate showing that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Vince it’s all good, you say tomato I say Tamatoe. Don’t take it personal. Thats just me. I also believe the U.S. Govt had a role in facilitating Pearl Harbor, 9-11, faked moon landings and the hoax of Global Warming, but again thats just me.
perez, mario 200.00
Perkins Coie 688,316.42 Look em up
Peter Slutsky 33.79
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2009/Q1/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
This combined with approx. $400k spent between Oct-Dec 2008 plus
Much of the legal representation was given free by voluteers. Other representation has been by governmental bodies against clearly frivolous lawsuits.
Do not think something is not possible without first exploring the possibilities. Gahndi
The golden rule of conduct…is mutual toleration, seeing that we will never all think alike and we shall see Truth in fragments and from different angles of vision. Conscience is not the same thing for all. Whilst, therefor, it is a good guide for individual conduct, imposition of that conduct upon all will be an insufferable interference with everybody’s freedom of conscience. Gahndi
bdaman said “I also believe the U.S. Govt had a role in facilitating Pearl Harbor, 9-11, faked moon landings and the hoax of Global Warming.”
Ok. Fine. Sure.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p431_Lutton.html
http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Air_Force_Station
Bdaman, I don’t know about your other sources, but the Journal of Historical Review is a well-known outlet for Holocaust deniers. I wouldn’t put a whole lot of stock in anything they publish.
Thanks Mike, I don’t agree with everything they write and I’m certainly not a denier of the Holocaust, however in this example of Pearl Harbor I think they are historically correct.
And the hits just keep on commin.
http://216.221.102.26/blogger/post/New-court-filing-against-Obama.aspx
Well, badman, that lawsuit is just as frivolous as all the rest, and will be dismissed like all the rest. Everyone, you saw it here, first, in writing. Dr. Conspiracy has the full up-to-date details:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/07/allen-v-soetoro/
Take, for example, paragraph 20 of the complaint: “Finally, in 1981, Barry Soetoro traveled to Pakistan, when there was a ban for U.S. citizens to travel to Pakistan, therefore the only logical possibility for him to do so was by using one of his other passports: Indonesian, Kenyan, or British.”
Somebody else posted this pathetic, false fiction on this site. I directed everyone to the official State Department Notice from 1981 that stated citizens traveling on US Passports could get visas to visit Pakistan http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/travel/cis/southasia/TA_Pakistan1981.pdf
Never heard back on that issue. Just one more example of birther falsehood.
But the birther conspiracy theorists are impervious to the facts.
The other issues badman raised in the links are just as frivolous and unfounded, but this is a classic diversionary tactic. Draw the discussion away, into a maze of irrelevancies, to divert attention from the abject failure on issue at hand. No thank you.
Way to go, Gov!
You are now the first Republican socialdemocrat in the US. What You just did is exactly what socialdemocrats did in Sweden during their time in office…
Andréas 1, July 8, 2009 at 6:01 am
Way to go, Gov!
You are now the first Republican socialdemocrat in the US. What You just did is exactly what socialdemocrats did in Sweden during their time in office…
******************************
May I ask you a question Andreas. ok I will anyway. What label do you place on someone for doing what is the right thing? Does it matter if they are a socialist, democrat, republican?
You know sir, I would trust more a known atheist than a proclaimed christian. At least with an atheist they usually are following a belief that they truly believe, can you say the same?
Vince the controversey of which Hospital he was born in is heating up again.
On January 24, 2009, Mr. Obama presented a letter to the Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children where, in part, he made the following assertion:
As a beneficiary of the excellence of Kapi`olani Medical Center – the place of my birth – I am pleased to add my voice to your chorus of supporters.
Their son, also named Barack Hussein Obama, was born on 4 August 1961 at the Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. (News accounts have also previously placed his birth as having occurred at Queen’s Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.)
an article published in the Rainbow Edition Newsletter, seems to indicate that Mr. Obama was actually born in Queen’s Medical Center:
A]ccording to Snopes, the popular online hoax-buster that many rely on as the final word on both important and frivolous stories, Obama was born at a different hospital in the Hawaiian capital.
In Snopes’ entry concerning allegations that Obama is a “radical Muslim,” the site addresses the birth history of the commander in chief, stating, “Barack Hussein Obama was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen’s Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.”
Update: Snopes has now switched it to Kapi’olani screen shot has been taken before the switch.
But Snopes is not alone in asserting Obama was born at a hospital other than the one he personally claims.
A number of news articles published both in the U.S. and abroad name Queen’s Medical Center – not Kapi’olani – as the correct birthplace.
A United Press International report from Nov. 4 states:
“Obama described his birth at Queen’s Medical Center in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman from Kansas and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya, as an ‘all-America’ story transcending orthodox racial stereotypes and experience.”
Obama doesn’t even know. Maybe he should of stuck to Honolulu like the COLB says.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/sophiaajaz/gGxqmC
1. Barack Hussein OBAMA was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen’s Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein OBAMA, Sr. of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann DUNHAM of Wichita, Kansas. His parents met while both were attending the East-West Center of the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was enrolled as a foreign student. When Barack Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father moved to Connecticut to continue his education before returning to Kenya.When Obama was six, his mother married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian oil manager. In 1967, when Soetoro’s student visa was revoked because of political unrest in Indonesia, Dunham and Barack, then in first grade, accompanied him to Jakarta, Indonesia. Obama’s half-sister, Maya Soetoro was born after the family moved to Indonesia. Four years later she sent him back to the United States to live with his maternal grandmother.
Bdaman,
Who cares anymore, you have a corrupt court system interested in preserving itself. They only go in at the call of the president. I may be wrong but that was an issued between Jefferson in which Marbury vs Madison was written. Silent but why they gap in Opinions?
Bman,
In re Birthers
It’s a dead horse legally. You should let that one go. We agree on more than you might suspect, but seriously, the birther thing is nonsense that leads nowhere. It’s propaganda for rubes (and I think you’re smarter than that). There’s plenty to go after BO about and more every day that he’s in office, but that isn’t one of them. If you want to take on the Washington Hypocrisy, which it seems you do, perhaps another avenue of attack would serve you better in the long run. I’m not saying don’t believe he’s not a citizen if you like, but belief and what is actionable (in the broadest sense of the term, not the legal definition) are often two different things. For example, I believe that I want to have sex with Milla Jovovich, but since I don’t know her, my chances approach zero rapidly.
Buddha is Laughing,
I hear you want to date me. My Ukrainian is better than my understanding of your English. I hope to meet you some day, please make my day and submit yourself to be mine. Will you direct me in my next movie?
Some say that I am half Russian and half Yugoslavian. I can assure you that I am all woman, your kind. Please come to me.
It would seem my luck has taken a change. lol
This is why, when you start telling lie’s you have to continue to tell them to cover the last one. Do you really want another lier in the Whitehouse, we just got rid of one that was in it for eight freakin years.
Obama says yesterday he met his wife in class (00:39)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIPcfrFVUo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etheobamafile%2Ecom%2FObamaLatest%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded
Barack Obama joined the Chicago law firm, Sidley Austin, as a summer intern in 1989. That’s where he met his future wife, Michelle Robinson, who was his adviser.
Michelle obtained her Juris Doctor degree from Harvard Law School in 1988. Obama began Harvard Law School in in the fall of the same year. They were never at law school at the same time. This is just another senseless Obama lie to add to the ever-growing list.
It just hit me, he’s reading from the teleprompter again instead of speaking from the heart.
The hospital birth issue is heating up only at World Nut Daily. As an example of their credibility, note that the Nut reported in May that Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate was up for sale on eBay (the article included a plea for money): http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102271
The Nut article on July 7, by swift boater Joe Corsi, also ends with a shout out for funds. These birthers are truly as despicable as the folks who used to send form letters to senior citizens telling them their Social Security was at risk, and then soliciting funds from them. They are trying to separate a lot of honest Americans from their money with lies and falsehoods.
Getting down to the hospital issue, Dr. Conspiracy has written at the Obama Conspiracy site that “the persistent Internet rumor that Barack Obama’s half sister Maya claimed that he was born at Queens Hospital, is not true.” [Dr. Conspiracy refuses outright to accept any money at all.]
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/05/where-obama-was-born/
Joe Corsi floated the Queens Hospital rumor at the Nut in November, 2008. This was his sentence: “In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow. Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.” http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900
The so-called Rainbow Newsletter is nowhere to be found. The link in Joe’s article does not go there. A search of the web shows that the birthers have been repeating Joe’s sentence over and over again until they believe it.
Other news sources have said that Obama said he was born at Queens, but without any links or first-hand sources. But Obama wrote and signed a letter himself on White House stationary that he was born at Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu. So he does know where he was born.
The gullibility of the birthers is awesome. They rely on news accounts that repeat each other to infinity, yet never link or print an actual first person statement by Obama or his sister. All the sources say that someone said this. Hearsay. Where are the first person tapes or transcripts of Obama or his sister saying he was born at Queens Hospital. The news sources may have made mistakes. So what? There is an express disclaimer at one of the sites: “Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign.”
What does it matter, anyway? Both hospitals are in the United States. Birth in either hospital made him a natural born citizen.
The Snopes entries can be accessed for all to read at these links::
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
The hospital birth issue is heating up only at World Nut Daily. As an example of their credibility, note that the Nut reported in May that Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate was up for sale on eBay (the article included a plea for money):
The long Nut article on July 7, by swift boater Joe Corsi, also ends with a shout out for funds. These birthers are truly as despicable as the folks who used to send form letters to senior citizens telling them their Social Security was at risk, and then soliciting funds from them. They are trying to separate a lot of honest Americans from their money with lies and falsehoods.
Getting down to the hospital issue, Dr. Conspiracy has written at the Obama Conspiracy site that “the persistent Internet rumor that Barack Obama’s half sister Maya claimed that he was born at Queens Hospital, is not true.” [Dr. Conspiracy refuses outright to accept any money at all.]
Joe Corsi floated the Queens Hospital rumor at the Nut in November, 2008. This was his sentence: “In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow. Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.”
The so-called Rainbow Newsletter is nowhere to be found. The link in Joe’s article does not go there. A search of the web shows that the birthers have been repeating Joe’s sentence over and over again until they believe it.
Other news sources have said that Obama said he was born at Queens, but without any links or first-hand sources. But Obama wrote and signed a letter himself on White House stationary that he was born at Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu. So he does know where he was born.
The gullibility of the birthers is awesome. They rely on news accounts that repeat each other to infinity, yet never link or print an actual first person statement by Obama or his sister. All the sources say that someone said this. Hearsay. Where are the first person tapes or transcripts of Obama or his sister saying he was born at Queens Hospital. The news sources may have made mistakes. So what? There is an express disclaimer at one of the sites: “Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign.”
What does it matter, anyway? Both hospitals are in the United States. Birth in either hospital made him a natural born citizen.
http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaBornQueensMedical.jpg
here it is Vince, your turn to say it’s a forgery. Plus all of the news articles. It’s a matter of being open and transparent, just another speech, words just words. See the latest post http://jonathanturley.org/2009/07/08/12598/ and comments. The word Liar is starting to get used alot.
Anatomy of a false rumor.
Funny thing. Dr. Jerome Corsi wrote: “In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.”
Well, the newsletter is not the Rainbow. It is “The Rainbow Edition,” published by he students at Education Laboratory School in Hawaii. Attorney Phil Berg posted it online as part of his frivolous lawsuit. Please read pages 2 and 15: http://www.radiodujour.com/people/berg_philip/pdf/057_2%20Exhibit%20Charter%20Schools%20Rainbow%20Edition%20Newsletter.pdf
The article did not say that Maya Soetoro said that Obama was born at Queens. It is the writer of the article who began by saying that Obama was born at Queens Medical Center. The quotations by Maya Soetoro say nothing of the sort in the article. So there is no first hand evidence of the persistent internet rumor.
The hospital of birth issue is not heating up. It is getting colder by the minute.
The article was not a forgery. It just didn’t say what the birthers said it said. Enough said.
Jim at Irregular Times beat me to the lie about Maya. He deserves all the credit in the world:
QUOTE ONHigh School Newspaper reports Different Hospital of Obama’s Birth. Schoolkid Typo or… CONSPIRACY???
Jim
Actual excerpt from a lawsuit filed by “Obama is a foreigner” conspiracy theorist Philip J. Berg:
The Rainbow Edition News Letter, November 2004 Edition, published by the Education Laboratory School, attached as EXHIBIT “3”, did a several page article of an interview with Obama and his half-sister, Maya. The Rainbow Edition News Letter reports Obama was born August 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.
The “several pages” of the Rainbow Edition News Letter are two pages, and the claim that Obama was born at Queens is not part of any interview. The Education Laboratory School is a… high school. That makes the Rainbow Edition News Letter a… high school newspaper.
Is this a high school kid’s typo, or… is this a vast international conspiracy to cover up Barack Obama’s foreign birth?
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/tag/kapiolani-medical-center/
QUOTE OFF
To wrap up loose ends for readers:
At Dr. Conspiracy’s site, richCares has noted, for those unfamiliar with Hawaii, that Honolulu has two hospitals, both founded by Queens: a Maternity Hospital started by Queen Kapiolani, and a Medical Center started by Queen Emma; both hospitals are often called “Queen’s Hospital.” “If it’s Maternity, it’s probably Queen Kapiolani Maternity Home, the name it went by in the 60’s (now Queen Kapiolani Medical Center).” Rich said “these two Hospitals are often confused. If looking for Queens Hospital either may come up, so some made a mistake. However Obama and his family never varied in stating where he was born, Queen Kapiolani. Birthers trying to use a simple mistake to bolster their ignorant story, that’s normal for idiots grasping at straws. Yes, the birth certificate issue is over.”
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/07/hawaii-homelands-declares-short-form-good-enough/comment-page-9/#comment-13285
PS, The facility was originally opened by Queen Kapi’olani as the Kapi’olani Maternity Home in 1890[wiki]. Concerned about the welfare of Hawaii’s mothers and their babies, Queen Kapi’olani opened the Kapi’olani Maternity Home in 1890. From its inception, the hospital has played a vital role in the health of Hawaii’s women and children [official website]. There is a upi.com story out there that made thIS mistake.
Vince,
I value your clear, stong voice. Will you please speak to Obama’s decision to imprison the innocent? If you agree with him, I’d like to know why. If you do not, I think every added voice matters.
Yet another loose end:
bdaman posted a long essay at the thread “Obama adopts Cheney” on June 24, 2009 at 11:05 am. Most of it was actually cut from Leo Donofrio’s Natural Born Citizen site (where bdaman has also posted) and pasted up verbataim without attribution:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/why-do-both-obamas-state-department-and-the-senate-require-two-us-citizen-parents-for-those-born-abroad-to-attain-natural-born-citizen-status/#comments [I do not post with Leo because, unlike JT, he censors and snips replies].
The entire long and repetitive essay is Leo’s answer to the question “Why do both Obama’s State Department and the Senate require two US citizen parents for those born abroad to attain natural born citizen status?” Or, as Leo asked repetitively, “The magic question is: Why was it important to all who co-sponsored Senate Resolution 511 that both parents be citizens?
The answer is straightforward. The resolution addressed the facts at hand. McCain was born outside the 48 States to two American citizen parents. That was the issue that the non-binding resolution addressed.
The State Department is bound by the federal immigration laws. Those laws provide that certain persons born outside the United States are citizens by birth rather than naturalization. These statutes have changed from time to time over the years. The rules differ, depending on whether the person born overseas had two citizen parents or just one citizen parent. A person born overseas who had one US citizen parent may be a citizen by birth, depending on that parent’s later residence in the US. The State Department has explained all of this.
The Senate has a right to express its views on the Constitution. The final interpretation of the Constitution is committed to the Supreme Court, and ultimately to the people by the Amendment process, but each branch, including Congress and the President, has the right and duty to determine any and all constitutional questions presented to it in the first instance. So the resolution addressed the question before it, and did provide a treatise on citizenship.
Leo knows where we are and can post here anytime he wants to.
Another unsupported false internet birther charge that should be cleared up for the record.
One posting above on this thread said: “The rumor mill was rampant that he has spent over a million dollars in legal fees and we now no it’s true.” Another posting, verbatim:
“perez, mario 200.00
Perkins Coie 688,316.42 Look em up
Peter Slutsky 33.79
This combined with approx. $400k spent between Oct-Dec 2008 plus”
[???, sic]
The rumor that Obama has spent a million in legal fees is another false internet rumor spread by the unthinking birthers and their incoherent supporters. Once again, Jim at Irregular Times has done the heavy lifting: “You can find these sorts of claims all over the internet going on and on about Barack Obama spending so much money on legal fees to hide a birth certificate! But the funny thing is, I can’t find a single verifiable piece of documentation to show me any monetary amount spent by Barack Obama or his presidential campaign on legal fees for the purpose of suppressing the release of any birth certificate of his.”
So Jim challenged his readers to come up with verifiable information.
Well, the birthers came up dry. See for yourselves: http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2009/05/06/challenge-barack-obama-birth-certificate-legal-expenses/