First there were the Knights Who Say Ni! (below). Now we have the problem of the lawyers who say Meep! After reading the recent publications over the decision of the principal of Danvers High School banning students from saying the word “Meep,” Entertainment lawyer Theodora Michaels decided to act and wrote a letter using the four-letter word to Principal Thomas Murray, who comes across as a high school version of Dean Vernon Wormer from Animal House. She was immediately reported to the police for investigation by the school.
Murray stumbled on a conspiracy on Facebook where he learned that kids in the Danvers High School in Massachusetts intended to say “Meep!” in school — mimicking the lab assistant to Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, Beaker, of “The Muppet Show.”
Meep is actually in the dictionary which defines it as “whatever you want it to mean.” Murray, however, did not want it in his school and banned it — sending an automated call to parents warning that any student using “Meep!” could be suspended. His minions had uncovered a plot for students to do a “mass meep” in one part of the school.
That is when Michaels decided to nail her letter to the Internet door like a Meepish Martin Luther.
Here is the entire letter:
An open letter to Principal Murray of Danvers High School (MA):
Meep.
Sincerely,
Theodora Michaels
She says that the response was fast and furious: “Yesterday I received a reply email from Assistant Principal Mark Strout, which said (in full) “Your E-mail has been forwarded to the Danvers Police Department.”
I am pretty sure that Meep is not a form of hate speech, even under the Muppet criminal code. Methinks that Murray doth protest too much.
For her account of the controversy, click here.
Oh Beaker! I’ve missed you!
How do you say Meep?
Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep,Meep!
Sounds like a Yale, MIT or CalTech Students Stunt to me. None were intentionally left out or ignored only forgotten.
Caltech is M.I.T.’s biggest rival in pranks, despite being located at opposite ends of the country. They often take potshots at one another and are especially prone to pranks at football games. Although the Great Rose Bowl prank is pretty well known, another football stunt occurred when Caltech wasn’t even playing. During the 1964 Washington vs. Illinois Rose Bowl game, the audience of 100,000 was rather bored by a somewhat lackluster game. That is, until they looked up and realized that someone had changed the electronic scoreboard to make it appear as if Caltech was putting the hurt on M.I.T. It happened again in 1984 – although the teams were UCLA and Illinois (again), it appeared as if Caltech was stomping M.I.T., 31-9.
“We Suck”
Link: http://www.neatorama.com/tag/yale/
As a matter of full disclosure, I have a little Beaker puppet riding an unused pencil in my pen caddy. So Meep! you, Principle Murray. Grow a sense of humor.
Here’s a link to the article from my local newspaper.
What’s wrong with ‘meep’? It’s all in how you say it (Salem News, 11/10/2009)
http://salemnews.com/punews/local_story_313233045.html
Meepily yours,
Elaine M.
Maybe the principal changed his name from Wile E. Coyote.
Seriously. Don’t you know that if the kids say “Meep” the terrorist win. Honestly, I thought you knew that. And you call yourself a lawyer.
I still say grow a sense of humor. Oh! The kids were planning a “mass disruption” by “saying meep”! Well Holy Crap! Let’s call the National Guard! What the Hell was a principle doing profiling his student’s online lives anyway? That’s inappropriate for so many reasons. And for essentially a harmless prank. Way to go, Jackboot! “It’s not about banning the word” blah blah blah. No, it’s not. It’s about you being a creepy old humorless bastard with ZERO respect for your students and their rights outside your direct control. If you were following MY kid online? I’d have your ass charged for stalking, you draconian creep. I was in on several really good school pranks in high school, one’s that make this one look “cute”, and if Murray doesn’t think that the administration(s) didn’t know some of those pranks were coming then he’s not very bright. I once orchestrated putting almost 100 pats of butter on the ceiling of the lunchroom. They knew “something” was coming. They knew who did it. But since they didn’t catch us red handed, we all played stupid and they had to back off. That’s the price you pay with pranks. Sometimes you catch the pranksters, sometimes you don’t. But you don’t engage in “preemptive warfare”. That’s psychological equivalent of “The Bush Doctrine” and it leads to escalation, Principle Orwell. You wanted to stop an essentially harmless prank by acting like a little Gestapo thug? You don’t understand the psychology of teenagers very well, do you? What you’ve done is invite an never ending and always escalating series of pranks from the more serious malcontents in your group – to whom you’ve telegrahped that they shouldn’t plan or coordinate online.
I see exploding plumbing in your future, Principle Murray.
Way to contain that sense of youthfulness, genius. Go read some Sun Tzu. You may be a good paper shuffler, but a tactician you are not.
BIL–
You should tell us what you really think.
You said: But you don’t engage in “preemptive warfare”. I’d call it preemptive “wordfare.”
****************
Honestly, schools have to deal with so many important educational/behavioral/fiscal issues these days–and this principle is concerned about a Meep-speaking conspiracy? I think Murray needs to get a life–as well as a sense of humor.
Principal Murray has zero tolerance for humor. He must be on some kind of power trip.
I sent an e-mail, sans MEEP, to Thomas Murray and CC’d Dr. Lisa Dana
Superintendent of Schools. The only course of action against these power hungry types is ridicule and Principal Murray deserves all he gets.
Vive la résistance!
http://www.zazzle.com/meep+bumperstickers
http://www.zazzle.com/penguin_meep_tshirt-235057835588876751
I’ll be waiting for Katy Perry’s new song.
“I meeped a girl”
Elaine M.,
I am sorry for the young children that cannot tell their children a zany tale of some inane thing accompolished at school.
You are correct that too much emphasis is placed on the fiscal aspect of school. I can blame RWR for the slow degradation of the public school system. That about how long ago it started.
Too many things are too serious too not have any fun.
AY,
I can give you a more granular target than RWR.
Ronnie’s boy, Bill Bennett.
He did more to set back education in this country than just about anyone.
“Hey everybody! We’re all going to get meeped!” – Rodney Dangerfield as Al Czervik in “Caddyshack”
OOOOPPPS! I did it again. I wrote principle instead of principal in an earlier comment. I should proofread what I write here.
Hi, all. I’m writing from inside this controversy. What you don’t know is that the media is only giving less than HALF of the story==the “funny” part. Anyone who knows Tom Murray knows:
1. He is the most laid-back kid-friendly Principal in the state.
2. He would not have taken the action that he did if he had not exhausted all possible avenues first.
3. He’s a good man with a kind and generous heart.
4. He is not a control freak–in fact,if you look up the word Laissez faire in the dictionary, you’ll probably see his picture next to it.
5. He has an AMAZING sense of humor. As an example, in our school, we’ve had problems with beach balls and disruptions at graduations that has existed for years. On his first graduation ceremony with the high school, he talked to the graduates in small groups. He told them, “It’s about respect. Not one single one of you is bigger than the group. It’s everyone’s day and when you do something to bring things down and call attention to yourself, you are saying, in effect, that you are more important than everyone else in this room.” He then asked them to refrain from ball bouncing during student speeches etc and promised them something fun after. Even the normally most disruptive students were angels throughout the ceremony. He then purchased with his own money a bunch of giant beach balls. After the last diploma was handed out, and before they tossed their hats, the senior class officers sent the balls into the crowd of kids. They had a great time in this final class activity batting the beach balls around in joyous celebration. The dignity of the graduation ceremony was preserved, and the kids had their fun. His quote to the crowd “If you can’t beat them, join them”.
And if the “meeping” in Danvers high school were just plain ol’ silly meeping–I’d bet that he’d laugh along with them. But it isn’t. Behind the “meep ban” is a much darker story. It’s not about meep, it’s about a host of disruptive actions,vulgar words, barnyard noises, and systematic harassment orchestrated to drive one person over the edge–and it’s about bringing down the learning environment at the same time. But that’s not “sexy” enough for the “news” media. So they left that part out. “Look at the principal! he’s banning a nonsense word” they all yelled… it is far more entertaining to the masses of sheeple than ” dark and ridiculously immature 18 year olds with no sense of boundaries plot to drive a person over the edge with systematic harassment”. And so, the whole bunch of sheeple bleated along without questioning exactly what happened.
I’m so sad about the whole thing. It’s not about meep, it’s about teaching kids that there is a RESPONSIBILITY that goes with the freedoms they have. Unfortunately, the news media and many adults who should know better, are not setting a very good example for them to follow.
http://salemnews.com/punews/local_story_158225341.html (the beach ball story)
No apple for the teacher ‘twoday’.
Remember, a principle is never your pal.
Gotta luv mnemonics, which in and of itself needs a Knew-monic to remember its spellin’
78 definitions of “meep” at the Urban Dictionary, so far:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meep
BIL–
Ah, yes, Bill “The Morally Superior ‘Book of Virtues’ Author Who Is Always There to Tell Others How They Should Live Their Lives” Bennett.
Ole poker-faced Blackjack Bill surely didn’t do anything to advance education in our country. What a waste of oxygen!
I am selling placards that say “Thank you for not meeping.”
I have always told kids that that a principal is not your ple.
Vince–
I think it’s a psychological block for me. Since I’ve retired from teaching, I haven’t been able to use the correct homophone when writing about the leader of a school. Also, I never bought that bit about a principal being my pal.
Insider,
Your hyperbolic comment brings the principal no relief. I’m sure the principal and his supporters can justify his actions by invoking sinister, dark forces that want to bring down the educational system, but when you’re in a hole, stop digging.
“Behind the “meep ban” is a much darker story. It’s not about meep, it’s about a host of disruptive actions,vulgar words, barnyard noises, and systematic harassment orchestrated to drive one person over the edge–and it’s about bringing down the learning environment at the same time.”
Insider,
Perhaps you are closer to the situation. Perhaps you work at the school, or are even related to the principal. I’m not impressed with your explanation and I’ll tell you why. The dumbest thing any person in authority can do is to issue edicts that appear silly on their face and to try to over exert control in a situation that doesn’t require it. Had the Principals E Mail to the parents specified the actual reason for his ban and made the argument why it was necessary, then i’m sure if the reason was plausible enough he would have had overwhelming support. He chose instead to send a message that opened more questions than it answered. This was dumb.
Now if this was a form of harassment to drive one person over the edge, I would assume that person is either in the school administration or a teacher, the E mail should still have been up front about its’ purposes. The reason for that in my opinion is that if school personnel in a High School can be driven “over the edge” by students, then their ability to be in the job must be questioned. School personnel are adults, teenagers are still children despite their size and if you as an adult can’t handle children who I guess in this case may be ridiculing you, then you need another line of work. however, if the Principal wanted to show support for this person than bringing the situation out into the open would have shown the strongest type of support.
Insider, Thanks for sharing the “inside story”.
The principal sounds like a person that cares about the students.
Humorless.
Gestapo.
Half-wit.
Franklin admonished that “[a]ny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
I’m pretty sure Ben wouldn’t care what the motivation of a school official was in depriving others of their liberty whether the cause be altruism and love or (as it sounds like) humorless paranoia and stupidity in understanding human psychology. Again, if he was following my child’s off campus activities, no sh*t, I’d have him arrested for stalking: end of story. Again, his motivation for this inappropriate behavior is irrelevant. He can care all he likes. He can worship the students. This still makes him neither desirable nor competent to act in a supervisory capacity. It does not mitigate that Murray’s overreaction and busy body meddling will end up in the long run blowing up in his face. His feelings have nothing to do with it. His handling of the situation was poor no matter his motive. At best, he looks like he’s not up for the job, at worst, he looks like a paranoid. As a matter of basic principle, he basically shouldn’t be principal.
And to thank that greased pigs were not wanted loose in the Hi School I attended, but no one got hurt, kicked out or suspended. The Pigeons were another story. We did have to clean the school on that one. Oh well.
Got Meep?
Me thinks that a lot of the people commenting here are former Meepers–maybe even inveterate Meepers.
Elaine M.,
Meep, meep. Willie Coyote has gotten hit by another anvil. Meep, meep.
Meep thinks you are correct.
http://www.danvers.mec.edu/dhs.cfm
Principal
Thomas Murray
murray@danvers.org
Asst. Principal
Mark Strout
strout@danvers.org
Asst. Principal
Cornelia Varoudakis
cvaroudakis@danvers.org
Meep
5. He has an AMAZING sense of humor.
—
Like when he was such a baby that he had his sidekick, vice principal and little dictator in the making, Mark Strout, forward a very nonthreatening, even funny letter to the local police department for further investigation.
Elaine,
I plead the Meepth.
And although I missed it on my earlier read though,
In Re “ple”
Vince, that was awesome. I am compelled to ask if that was a Treacy original?
BIL–
I’m a retired teacher. I think former Meepers may be the best at adeptly handling Meepy, pre Meepy, and post Meepy situations in schools. It is best to understand the psychology of Meepers–in particular the Meepers who would incite gullible peers to commit collaborative Meeping.
As to whether I’m a former Meeper, I’ll plead the Meepth like you.
Paully, thanks for your kind words. People find it so easy to be harsh in the anonymous realm of the Internet. This is a harsh crowd. I can only testify to the truth as it exists. Reasonable people–people I know and people I don’t know–with whom I’ve spoken since this whole thing blew up, understand that there is more to it than meets the eye.
Everyone else who commented on my explanation: I cannot but explain myself as clearly as possible. I’m sorry that you do not want to hear a rational explanation. I’ve found that people who speak with such vitriol are people who do not understand anything but low level humor. Please do not lecture me on how to “handle a classroom” or assume that that must be the problem. I’ve taught for over a decade and managing a class of teenagers is an art that is learned and crafted over many many years. I’ve improved with each year, but gradually the students change and I have to re-learn again on the fly.
In the last five or six years, I’ve noticed a shift in the kids that I teach. So many of them are coming to us with no sense of propriety and no sense of duty to themselves and to their community. I do NOT command respect from my students, I make an earnest attempt to EARN that respect by being fair to all, forgiving when needed, available to talk and counsel when they are facing rough patches in life (my classroom door is always open) and by showing them that I know my stuff. But more and more kids do not even give respect when respect is given. You can laugh all you want now, but next time you go to a restaurant and the waitress ignores you because she is fighting with her boyfriend via text message, next time you go to a mechanic and they screw you over for the bill when they realize you know nothing about cars, next time you go to get service in a store, or you are carrying a load of groceries and the young person in front of you allows the door to slam in your face, next time you are trying to pull out onto a roadway and nobody will wave you on, next time you are being mugged in broad daylight and nobody stops to help you, remember that as a society we reap what we sow. Proverbs 22:6 says: “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
It’s so easy to make anonymous jokes on the Internet about things you don’t understand. It is much harder to realize and admit when you are the fool. And I don’t expect that you will admit it. We are a nation of prideful arrogant people. It is sad.
As for high school pranks. I’m a prankster myself… I WISH that the kids would do a greased pig prank on their last day. That’s funny (well, funny everyone but the pig), I get a kick out of goofy behavior at the right time, and I cannot stand when foolish rules are applied to a situation. I am the first to work with the administration change something what I believe that it is not good for the students or the school community as a whole. I UNDERSTAND kids. And the second that I stop understanding them, is the day I retire and do something EASY like working in the Business world.
As for this situation: I can only offer my witness from my own experience IN DANVERS HIGH SCHOOL. I can only tell you what I am free to tell you, and if I could tell you more without breaking rules of privacy and protection for kids and adults alike, I would. But I can’t. Because, unlike the fools that started this thing, I am aware that there are boundaries, and that I AM free to tell all, but that it would be wrong to do so.
And the silent majority of the students in Danvers High are embarrassed and angry that the “meepers” are out of control and have brought negative attention to our school. Our band is INCREDIBLE. They are going to march in the Rose Bowl Parade in Pasadena for the THIRD time in a decade. They have worked so hard for what they’ve achieved, and they are rightly upset that the news media does not give one fig of care for their hard work–and slacker meepers get all the attention. One of the band girls went up to one of the news bimbos and said to her “are you here for the meep thing?” and the news bimbo stopped brushing her hair and said “yes, I am, do you have something to say.” and the girl bravely replied “yeah. Our band is going to Pasadena to march in the Rose Bowl Parade for the third time and we are the only school in the state to do so ever.So why don’t you cover that instead?” And the bimbo laughed, turned her head and began fixing her make up for her “live shot.” So you tell me–who is the wise adult in this situation?
As a side note:
It’s funny. I just opened my electronic Bible for my Bible reading of the day. It was from Proverbs 9. If I’d have read this before my original post, perhaps I could have saved myself grief.
6 Leave your simple ways behind, and begin to live;
learn to use good judgment.”
7 Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return.
Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt.
8 So don’t bother correcting mockers;
they will only hate you.
But correct the wise,
and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise,
and they will be even wiser.
Teach the righteous,
and they will learn even more.
Perhaps I am the fool for I should neither rebuke a mocker nor correct the wicked. Those who are wise will understand.
Anyway, thanks for letting me say my piece. If I’ve reached one or two of you, I will not consider it a failure.
I repeat:
Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, tits and …. meep
Insider as a person that is posting Anonymously as well, think of this in a way that is palatable to you. RWR started the education system on a downward spiral slippery slope. The children you teach today are a product of that generation of that day.
With what you have stated is that children have a whole lot less preparation today than when you were in school. I wonder if both parents working and not having enough time to spend with the children created the situation of todays general greed and get ahead in anyway you can because I am not going to get caught and screw you if I do. I understand the mentality. Go to your first year of law school and you’ll see what I say does not ring true.
Lastly, Meep, meep.
Insider,
I was a teacher for more than three decades. I do understand more than low level humor. I also understand how difficult the job of teaching has become in recent years. I also think the news media often try to hype controversial stories.
But I can’t help but wonder if the prinicipal’s leaving a voice message on answering machines was the best way to handle a situation that you say is a serious as it is?
And it does appear that the problem at the school is a much more serious behavioral issue than kids just saying Meep. (I have talked to someone who teaches in the community.) Telling kids that they can’t say Meep–doesn’t get at the core of the problem, which should be addressed. I just wonder if the situation could have been dealt with in a better way.
BTW, I don’t post anonymously.
Elaine M.,
You got a problem with people posting Anonymously?
Insider,
You’ve got some real anger issues, especially with female news reporters. You condemn society for its lack of respect in one breath, and in the next you use the sexist insult “bimbo.” If you think quoting a few Bible verses indemnifies you from your sexist insults, you are mistaken. I would advise you to remain anonymous.
It is not the “meepers” who have brought negative attention to our school, but the principal’s reaction to them.
AY–
Do I have a problem with people posting anonymously? Not at all. I just wanted to point out to Insider that I didn’t–since that seemed to be a problem for her…even though she commented anonymously.
P.S. I will say that I do have a problem with people who post extremely crude and vulgar comments anonymously.
P.P.S.
I assumed Insider was a woman. Insider could be a man.
Elaine M.,
How do we know what reality is? I am speaking anonymously as well.
AY–
Are you implying that you could be speaking from an alternate reality? Maybe you’re not a man or a woman–but one of those sinless aliens I read about on the Turley blog a few days ago.
Elaine M.,
You always bring a smile to my face. You must be a pleasure to be around. I probably had someone like you for a teacher and I was blessed because of it. Thanks for Teachers like you.
________________________
Now, in response. Are you implying that you could be speaking from an alternate reality?
************************
I may have smoked my way there. Not sure as it was an alternate reality.
________________________
Maybe you’re not a man or a woman.
***********************
I am a female caught in a males body. More explanation if you request.
________________________
–but one of those sinless aliens I read about on the Turley blog a few days ago.
**********************
I wish I knew what sin was, as I have had an altered reality since about the early seventies. At one time I could tell you but then it became a blur in law school. But I’ll never smoke weed with Willie again. I am unsure if he’s stopped but I did.
Insider, Thanks for the follow-up. You make some very good points.
You are correct. This is a tough crowd. It’s always easy to defend the rights of others when you don’t have to suffer the consequences of such freedom. There’s a reason children are not granted the same rights as adults. If limiting the speech of high school students, when it comes to something as petty as being able to say the word “meep”, will have a positive effect on the deeper issues, I say do it.
I’m sure the word “meep” has a personal meaning to the students that are using it. The word “bitch” didn’t always carry a negative meaning. There was probably a principal somewhere that placed similar restrictions on its use. -I don’t think most here would protect a high school student’s right to say “bitch” at school.
Insider: “In the last five or six years, I’ve noticed a shift in the kids that I teach. So many of them are coming to us with no sense of propriety and no sense of duty to themselves and to their community. I do NOT command respect from my students, I make an earnest attempt to EARN that respect…”
Insider,
Other than rediscovering how advances in technology can lead to death by distraction, your leadership approach to the problem is all wrong.
You’re applying a ‘joiner’ paradigm where a ‘teller’ type of leadership is warranted.
Don’t ‘earn’ their respect; take it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiedler_contingency_model
You’re dealing with a bunch of brats spoiled by technology–leaving them bereft of conscience.
Pick up the f’n ruler and teach for Christ’s sake.
Paully,
I think you are correct, in that most people complain of what they know not of what there is to complain about. They have to figure something to gripe about. Then again, they gripe about something that they don’t want, but they don’t offer anything that they do want. So what would you suggestion be? What is you answer to this quandary that you speak about. Uniform Rules of School Conduct? That worked well in the late 20′s though the mid 40′s in Germany. How about a having Senate Investigations about Communism in America. I know of a Senator from Wisconsin that would be all to happy to assist you in your endeavor. To wit, Joe McCarthy. Some people complained about his working habits. Some people even went so far as to volunteer their services for the screen actors guild. One even went on to become Gov of California and President of the US. I think he reported to the House Unamerican Activities which was abolished right before he took office. Coincidence? I think not. This one ran from 38 to 75. Would you explain to me what Unamerican activity really is? Thus far I am unmoved by anything that I have heard so far. It is kinda of like a radical christian. Are people who are not radical not Christians? What about Jews for Jesus. Do you see any contradiction? If so, where? How about the original catholic belief. Jesus was still a Jew and that part has not changed. Do you see any place in the bible where any of the original disciples renounced Judaism? If they do so, where?
Insider you too can chime in on this. One last question, what does meep really sound like and what does it mean? What does a hundred dollars mean to you? A person that lives on the border of Mexico and the US?
Please answer these for me.
Insider—
I find it interesting that you accuse people commenting here of being harsh with their anonymous comments. Yet, it seems you think that it’s okay to make harsh comments about others anonymously. You don’t know who we are—but it appears that you’ve formed judgments about the kind of people we are so quickly.
You imply that people who left comments in this thread are fools—as are the “slacker” kids who started the meeping. You say we can’t understand anything but low level humor. You imply that we are not wise enough to understand—and are wicked as well. You also refer to a female reporter as a “news bimbo.” One might surmise that you could be one of those “prideful arrogant people” of which you speak—one with a “holier than thou attitude,” I might add.
Too be sure, Danvers High School has had an exceptional band for a long time—and to the best of my recollection, it has received its share of the spotlight from the local news media at the appropriate times over the years. Maybe the “news bimbo” was sent to the high school to get information about the “meep” story. I would hazard a guess that if she returned to her office with information about something else—the band, a sports team—her boss might not have been too happy with her.
I have no doubt that there is much more to the “meeping” story than many of us know. Maybe if the situation at your high school had been handled better by administrators, Professor Turley wouldn’t have written about it at his blog. The school’s vice principal writing Ms. Michaels to inform her that he had forwarded her E-mail to the Danvers Police Department shows a lack of good judgment. And I’d say that sending automated calls to parents informing them that their children could get suspended for saying “meep” at school is not the best way to address a serious problem at your school.
***************
Maybe you would agree that the following applies to you as well as the other people who commented here:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:1-3
I think there’s a big difference between having an entry in the urbandictionary and one like Merriam-Webster’s or even the free dictionary google gives in search returns.
But, just because a word isn’t in a dictionary doesn’t mean that people don’t use it constantly…
MEEP!
Bleep the Meep. Don’t meep for me Argentina. And Jesus meeped. Jesus said: Bleesed are the meep for they shall inherit the earth (until it’s destroyed in 2012). Mary had a little lamb which grew up to be a meep. Meep, meep said the Roadrunner after the Coyote let him down. Meep me in St. Louis. (O.K. now we know the secret of GWB’s speeches.)
It would be interesting to hear the reaction of the police department to the forwarded meep-mail. Apparently this school has no real problems (such as vandalism, gang activity, teen pregnancy, etc.) and can focus so heavily on the meep menace, but it is likely that the Danvers police department has more serious concerns than the meep situation.
It’s a movement.
50 people a day
walkin in singing meep
and walkin out.
All together now!
You can get anything you want
meep meep-meep-meep meep meep meep
Me thinks that Principal Murray is full of Meep!
rafflaw,
Hey Meep me over, lend me a meep….
AY,
Free the Meeps! Freedom of speech for the Meeps!
I think Insider is really the principal in disguise. He tried to convince us that we were wrong, we just didn’t understand, we didn’t know the facts, he is really a nice guy, etc.
When that didn’t work, Insider/Principal came back and worked a different angle. He gave us the consequeces that will affect us all throughout the entire land. He tried to convince us if this meeping business continues, the entire service industry will fail. I get it. If he doesn’t stop the meeping, the economy of the country will collapse.
Then he worked on his ethos a bit. Pretty clever. “Maybe you are against me, but God sides with me, therefore God is against you.”
I have to agree with Simone. Insider has too much personally invested in convincing – not just others – but himself that he’s not an overreacting clown with no understanding of teen psychology. Anyone who argues ex deus in defense of someone essentially stalking his students is not fit to run a public school, but I’m sure some half-wit like Pat Robertson will give them a job running one of his indoctrination, er, “educational” facilities. Maybe there is a spot on the Regents faculty for someone like Murray. If God is on his side, that makes him a shoe in. Can I get God’s phone number, Principleless Murray, er, Insider? I have some questions. You not only have superior wisdom as to the dangers and nature of meeping but even claim to have a God on your side? My but you are a petty and arrogant little Jesus Nazi. I sincerely hope you have someone like me in your student body. Someone with a creative mind and total disrespect for faux authority and meddlesome, skulking, holier-than-thou, Civil Rights abusing, jackasses who threatens kids. You’ve got it coming. Seriously. You have prank target writ large right across your forehead. Written in your own hand, poorly and partially backwards, I might add.
Again, I suspect exploding plumbing and liberal applications of toilet paper to foliage will be the least of your concerns if you’re lucky enough to have a little Buddha Is Laughing in your student body.
This comes from a Meeper who was part of a prank that made a teacher quit – as was our goal. And her crime wasn’t even a Civil Rights violation, but it’s never a good idea to put someone in charge of a G&T program (let alone an entire school) who isn’t at least as smart as the students let alone someone who is an active insult to their collective intelligence. This went on until we had had enough. Then when stopped it. And that’s what will happen here. You will eventually have a situation where the local board will be forced to move Murray, he’ll quit or it’ll escalate until someone actually does get hurt. That’s how these things work. Or have you never read “The Chocolate War”? Anything by S.E. Hinton or J.D. Salinger? Or been to high school? I don’t need an electronic bible to tell me that an “educator” like Murray is headed for disaster. I’ve been there. So unlike you, I’m not making a false claim to authority – God being on “my side” is irrelevant just as it is to your “argument” – but rather relaying personal experience. It’s called “reality” vs. “wishful thinking”. You are 1) outnumbered by the kids and 2) obviously not smarter than the majority of them. You can’t have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Have a nice day.
Buddha,
Meep, Meep….
It is normal for the governance structures of schools to resemble fascism or the rules governing a prison to some greater or lesser extent. This has always been the case.
At the top are the teachers. A state of permanent war exists between the students and the teachers just as permanent war exists between prisoners and guards. A student who cooperates with the teachers is a despised in any school as is the snitch in the prison system. There is one exception, in the school the bullies are part of the power structure and to a certain extent teachers rely on them to intimidate the majority into conformity just as prison officers rely on a certain number of thugs to keep other inmates from complaining in public. This is why schools never succeed in tackling the problem of bullying.
In a community where civility is the norm it is possible for schools to relax the fascism a bit, but when the school is in a law and order war zone as are many public schools in the USA as also in Australia, the proportion of students who enter the system seriously alienated from main stream society makes any attempt to treat students as if they are entitled to respect from the teachers impossible. Alienated students see no relevance for school, they lack necessary prerequisite knowledge to understand lessons, the become bored and tune out then of course they fall behind. The only thing that gives them any satisfaction is mocking the school, their teachers and everything else. Punishment does not work on them because it acts as reinforcement, if they are punished it shows that they have succeeded in pissing the authorities off, it has more effect reinforcing bad behaviour than discouraging it.
In the USA and in Australia conservative politicians have been following an agenda of destroying public education. They want public schools to be failing schools for those whom are surplus to the requirements of the economy, who only need preparation for prison or minimum wage jobs. Their main concern with education is to prevent quality free public education from allowing upward social mobility among those at the bottom of society, especially blacks. One consequence of upward social mobility is relative downward social mobility for those who have achieved a comfortable position and do not want to scrabble and fight to hold their positions.
The trouble is that the damage alienated students do to the smooth running of the school is such that it destroys the chances of those capable of gaining from their education were this disruption not present. Perhaps when schools exist in war zones the only remedy is zero tolerance for disruption. Expel troublesome students quickly or get them into prison. Of course this will have disproportionate effects on blacks, both because alienation among the black underclass is higher than it is among whites of any class and because racism will ensure that teachers always see behaviour of a black student as worse than equivalent behaviour of a white. We have to acknowledge that prohibition of spending money on the undeserving in any way that benefits them makes any adding process to the school system to target the alienation of some students and remedy the prerequisite knowledge gaps is never going to be tolerated. Some episodes of the HBO series “The Wire” I do not know which season included an example of such an attempt, to provide special classes for ghetto students who could see no relevance in the normal syllabus. In the story line such a system was introduced shown to work and then abandoned.
Perhaps it is time to introduce capital punishment in schools or to introduce a system that allows students to vote th execute other students that they do not like.
Buddah, Mike.
From what I remember of school, I can understand both your and Insiders points of view.
Perhaps Insider could reference some drama about school that illustrates the same processes as occurred in the cases he has in mind but cannot mention even with names changed as the identities of those involved would be obvious to those associated with danvers school.
Thanks for reminding me.
I understand that facts are merely opinions and as there are diversity of opinions I value all opinions because I value diversity therefore everyone is correct.
Did my indoctrination work or should I be recycled for some retraining?
“People find it so easy to be harsh in the anonymous realm of the Internet. This is a harsh crowd. I can only testify to the truth as it exists. Reasonable people–people I know and people I don’t know–with whom I’ve spoken since this whole thing blew up, understand that there is more to it than meets the eye.”
Insider,
You are anonymous and yet you spread what you deem to be “inside” information and then take umbrage that your anonymous information is not believed. My comments on this are to the facts that are known and public record. You may believe you have greater involvement and insight, but why should I take your word for it?
“I’m sorry that you do not want to hear a rational explanation.”
You did not provide a rational, or plausible explanation. You only attested to the Principal’s good will and assured us that this was a serious situation, without providing any evidence of same, other than your own anonymous opinion.
“In the last five or six years, I’ve noticed a shift in the kids that I teach. So many of them are coming to us with no sense of propriety and no sense of duty to themselves and to their community.”
As a teacher, if indeed you are, I would think you would have some knowledge of history. In that respect a common human perception as they age is that the “younger (newer?)generation lacks the values of past generations. There are quotes to this effect that date back 4,000 years, or more. Many today look back at the 1950′s for instance as a “golden era” of behavioral correctness, when the reverse is true. You are growing older Insider, roll with it and adjust your pre-judgments accordingly.
“next time you are being mugged in broad daylight and nobody stops to help you, remember that as a society we reap what we sow.”
With this we are beginning to come to the heart of your problem, which is you falsely remember a past time of greater civility. The fact is the crime rate has been dropping steadily for years, but your old fart impressions haven’t kept up with the changing times.
“And the silent majority of the students in Danvers High are embarrassed and angry that the “meepers” are out of control and have brought negative attention to our school. Our band is INCREDIBLE. They are going to march in the Rose Bowl Parade in Pasadena for the THIRD time in a decade.”
By “silent majority” you no doubt mean those kids that are considered “good” by the school’s teacher’s and administrators.
These are the tractable ones, the ones who follow your orders.
By viewing the situation like this you are able to “isolate” out of your thinking the “others,” the “different,” the “rebels” against your authority. The good kids support the band and the football team, the “bad” ones don’t.
As for marching in the Rose Parade, that venerable institution, mostly racist through its’ history, that was dreamed up as an economic promotion for Pasadena, forgive me if I’m not impressed. Now if your school had a great debating team I might be, or if it rated well in one of the many science/logic competitions available to High Schoolers, that I would consider pertinent. A marching band is a silly waste of those student’s time, except to get them college scholarships, to schools that emphasize their football team over academics.
Another sad and amoral waste of education dollars.
“yeah. Our band is going to Pasadena to march in the Rose Bowl Parade for the third time and we are the only school in the state to do so ever.So why don’t you cover that instead?” And the bimbo laughed, turned her head and began fixing her make up for her “live shot.”
The use of “bimbo” for a newswoman was uncalled for. How do you know what her moral standards are and who are you to judge them without evidence? As to the students reply, which you find precious, I find it vapid and certainly does not exhibit to me that the “silent majority” of students you speak of have much going on mentally.
“It’s funny. I just opened my electronic Bible for my Bible reading of the day. It was from Proverbs 9.”
“Perhaps I am the fool for I should neither rebuke a mocker nor correct the wicked. Those who are wise will understand.”
With this you finally come out of the closet so to speak and in your own words show perhaps what this whole issue is really about. You inject biblical quotes into a discussion about school and into a discussion about an occurrence in school. Is it wrong for me to assume that you are a person of deeply held religious beliefs, who views the world and society in apocalyptic terms? I think not. Perhaps behind the “meep” issue lies a religious agenda? I think that could be a reasonable assumption. Since you are a teacher, or at least say you are, I would direct you to our Constitution and to its various interpretations regarding using the schools to promote religious viewpoints. By your response I think the inference that your personal viewpoints influence your judgment is justifiable. This would make you a rather prejudiced witness to the truth of the matter and render your testimony not worthy of belief.
Paully,
For some reason I find this statement more upsetting than anything else in the discussion. “It’s always easy to defend the rights of others when you don’t have to suffer the consequences of such freedom.”
Care to guess why?
Insider,
Personally I agree, let’s get back to the Biblical model of parenting. I’ve got the stones and town elders if you’ve got the disrespectful child.
Mike S,
I agree with almost everything you said (as usual); but Please, please don’t *Dis* the school’s marching band!
If you wish to dis the parade feel free but please don’t dis the band!
CEJ,
As someone who’s marched in many parades and half time shows I’ve found that the only people who taking marching band seriously are those who should really know better.
School bands especially if they travel and compete, need a serious commitment in time, energy, talent, capital and hard work, on the part of students, teachers, parents and volunteers in the community to be successful. While fun for the most part, it is still a lot of work. I do feel high school music programs and bands don’t get enough deserving praise.
So those who have made such a commitment to the Danver high school band should be proud they have been so accomplished.
Gyges,
I posted before reading your post; and really it’s not that I take bands so seriously, and true I most likely don’t know any better, but so many students and schools don’t have the support needed to even have a music program let alone a band; I just felt it was a poor target and a low blow.
We have an educational culture that gives music a low priority and presents such few opportunities for live music that I want to give them my support.
Not to take focus off the band issue but did anybody catch how Insider thought the news reports on meeping were sexy?
CEJ,
I was mainly joking around, but…
Scholastic Marching bands exist for one reason: Football. They may pretend otherwise, but just ask most band teachers in a school with a marching band what their chances of getting funding are if they don’t do halftime shows. The same goes for Cheerleaders.
If you want to get into “well it helps the music program,” we’ll have to disagree again. I don’t think that supporting Marching Bands is going to do any good in getting the school to support music. If anything it re-enforces the idea that the music program exists only by staying in the good graces of administration by kissing up to the athletic department.Then there’s the fact that most of the work that goes into marching band DOESN’T go into the music, it goes into learning the drill. The visual is always more important than the music. This is never going to change, thanks to the acoustics of performing in a football stadium. If you want to support live music, go to the concert\jazz band\orchestra\etc. concerts. Volunteer to help out with the bands. I’ve worked with several school jazz band programs on a volunteer basis. It’s incredibly rewarding.
All that said, I loved marching band. It was a great way to meet chicks and get into football games for free. I just happen to think it should be recognized for what it is.
Simone Benedict:
Simone:
no you have it wrong, opinions are like a . . . holes.
Facts are facts.
How can a principal ban a word? This has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. The man is a fool. So they stop saying meep and start saying beep or zlot or some other meaningless sound. Will he ban them all? Someone fire him and put someone in charge that has a clue.
Gyges–
One of my friends and former teaching colleagues served as a member of the Danvers School Committee years ago. Her children attended school in that town. Danvers has been extremely proud of its marching band for many years. I know that–at least in the past–there was a strong parent music support group in the community. The band is/was not just considered window dressing at football games.
As a former educator, I believe it’s a good idea to encourage kids to get involved in activities outside of school hours–whether it be music, art, the school newspaper, science club, math club, sports, volunteer work, etc.
I know the following may be a bit off topic, but I’ll bring it up anyway: Too often music, art, and library programs are the first things cut from school budgets as finances get tight. I think that’s a shame. Since I retired from my school library position in 2004, the elementary library program in the town where I taught has been decimated. It’s sad that in a country as rich as ours, we have plenty of money to fully fund two wars–but not enough for education and healthcare.
Thanks Byron. I think it’s great you have an opinion and I very much value your opinion. Psst, sheep….m-e-e-p!
Hey shameless plug for us, but get a Meep shirt.
http://bs-clothing.com/p-145-meep-charcoal.aspx
BS-Clothing
Elaine,
Of course there are exceptions. My point was simply that people take Marching Band too seriously, often to the detriment of the real music part of band program. Honestly, the music is pretty secondary to the rest of the production of a marching band’s show.
As an example, one of my former band teachers had spent years as the music teacher in a rural middle\high school, so our band would always show up early to watch the smaller schools perform at competitions. Every year when we’d get there, at least 2 of the three big name marching bands in the state would be there setting up their PROPS for the show. Notable props included: a mock pirate ship, a replica of the space station from Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Several HUGE canvases with painted African Savanna landscapes (which as a side note is a terrible idea for outdoor events in Colorado during the fall).
When you factor in: the money they payed EVERY YEAR for new music, props, customized drills, truck rentals, hired gun coaches, etc. you’re talking well over the cost of hiring another teacher for that particular school. Now those were the extreme examples, but I know my highschool’s band was forced to spend a similar chunk of it’s budget (which is tiny) every year on marching band. We had money to buy a new show, but our director had to pay out of her own pocket for reeds for the woodwind players that couldn’t afford them.
That’s what I mean by “the only people who taking marching band seriously are those who should really know better.” In my opinion band teacher’s should be fighting it tooth and nail. It forces them to spend half a year telling people where to stand, how to hold their horns, and “oh yeah, this part should be less loud.” If they want to make that deal with the devil, that’s their decision not mine, and I don’t envy them having to make it. From my perspective though, marching band does future musicians a great disservice. Of all the brass\woodwind\percussion majors I knew who were music majors in college, the ones that had the most problems were almost always from schools that emphasized the Marching Band.
File under “Lawyers who should have said meep:
If you ever testify in court, you might wish you
could have been as sharp as this policeman. He
was being cross-examined by a defense attorney
during a felony trial. The lawyer was trying to
undermine the police officer’s credibility…
Q:
‘Officer — did you see my client fleeing the
scene?’
A:
‘No sir. But I subsequently observed a person
matching the description of the offender,
running several blocks away.’
Q:
‘Officer — who provided this description?’
A:
‘The officer who responded to the
scene.’
Q:
‘A fellow officer provided the description of
this so-called offender. Do you trust your
fellow officers?’
A:
‘Yes, sir. With my life.’
Q:
‘With your life? Let me ask you this then
officer. Do you have a room where you change
your clothes in preparation for your daily
duties?’
A:
‘Yes sir, we do!’
Q:
‘And do you have a locker in the room?’
A:
‘Yes sir, I do.’
Q:
‘And do you have a lock on your locker?’
A:
‘Yes sir.’
Q:
‘Now why is it, officer, if you trust your
fellow officers with your life, you find it
necessary to lock your locker in a room you
share with these same officers?’
A:
‘You see, sir — we share the building with the
court complex, and sometimes lawyers have been
known to walk through that room.’
Vince–
That’s a classic!
roflol, Vince.
Meep indeed. As a general rule, you’re not supposed to ask a question in court you don’t know the answer to but this is a valuable lesson about assumptions and multiple answers to singular questions.
Gyges–
I understand the points you make. Where I live marching bands aren’t big. No pirate ships or Stars Wars Deep Space Nine.
I can’t say that it’s still true today–but I do know that years ago the Danvers music support group definitely helped to support the band financially.
Thanks, Elaine, but I hasten to add that I just pasted it up from an email from a friend.
Vince–
I don’t care where it came from–it’s still a classic!
Insider doesnt really get it…
The rain of feces didn’t truly start until the over-reaction of notifying the police about a simple little one word email.
Then the pile on started.
Step one, stop digging.
Meep
I think the best thing that came out of what the very brave attorney did was that the Danvers Police Dept issued a statement saying that it is okay for us non-student meepers to email the word, “meep.”
I’m not attorney, but I think this is a huge development in free speech law, isn’t it?