Muslims Protest Burning of Quran By Florida Preacher By Killing 20 People

Qur'an (Koran)
Muslims around the world have protested the burning of a Quran (Koran) by Florida preacher Rev. Terry Jones by killing 20 people and injuries dozens of others. It is a perfect matching of religious fueled hatred. Jones burns the Quran to protest what he views as a violent, intolerant religion and radical Muslims then killed scores of people to protest such desecration. I will say it again: these people have a lot in common.

Many of the deathes occurred in Afghanistan after our good friend Afghan President Hamid Karzai helped things along by highlighting the Florida incident. The dead include United Nations workers. Karzai has been using any opportunity lately to denounce the United States and express sympathy for the Taliban — while insisting that we continue our spending of billions in his country.

Most Afghans were unaware of the incident on March 20th until Karzai made it the focus of a recent speech.

Jones is an example of how anyone can call himself a preacher and the head of a church — even though he seems to have only a handful of followers. He has expressed no regrets: “It was intended to stir the pot; if you don’t shake the boat, everyone will stay in their complacency.”

The fact is that Jones’ hateful act is protected speech in this country. Despite Obama’s support for an international blasphemy resolution, we remain committed to free speech — even speech that others find insulting and sacrilegious. He was roundly denounced in his country and has lost most of the small number of people in his church. Yet, I will not join those blaming him for this violence. It is a mistake to blame unpopular speakers for such mob responses. It is the fault of these murderous extremists. What Jones is responsible for is his own act of hateful desecration. Instead of showing that it is Jones who is the extremist and the symbol of intolerance, these Muslim extremists have played into dreams of anti-Muslims like Jones.

Source: Yahoo

114 thoughts on “Muslims Protest Burning of Quran By Florida Preacher By Killing 20 People

  1. People like preacher jones have this view and a lot of people in the tea party also IMHO:

    “simplistic [sɪmˈplɪstɪk]
    adj
    1. characterized by extreme simplicity; naive
    2. oversimplifying complex problems; making unrealistically simple judgments or analyses”

  2. By in large, what the Prof said.

    It’s Jones’ right to burn a Quaran as protected free speech. I don’t care if the did. That is as long as he has no problem with me burning a Bible as that is my right as well.

    But civil rights and choices are not the same thing.

    The choice of another group of insane zealots to kill a bunch of people totally unconnected to Jones in response is just that – an insane choice made upon the basis of belief – not evidence, reason and logic.

    Just like violence often begets more violence, crazy often begets more crazy.

    No God, under any name, anywhere, and at any time has ever written a book nor would they need to write a book.

    A being with absolute omnipresences and omnipotence would not need a book to make mortal creatures believe as it wants them to believe.

    It would simply make it so.

    It’s a god. Free from the physical constraints of the universe. A God can, by definition, accomplish what it wants within the physical universe simply by divine will.

    Book? Gods do not need books any more than they would need a house or a food processor or a coupon to get a free Brazilian wax. To say a God relies upon a book written by men or a specific humans interpretation of a book written by men to tell other men how this God wants them to live is both staggeringly arrogant on the part of men and egregiously stupid to believe by the very definition of what a God is.

  3. BIL:

    Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

    “No God, under any name, anywhere, and at any time has ever written a book nor would they need to write a book.”

  4. The Prof says, “even speech that others find insulting and sacrilegious” I would change “even” to “especially”, since the views of the majority usually don’t need defending.

    Many comments on a related post seemed to want to blame Jones for murder or incitement, or at least insensitivity to the “offended” Muslim murderers. I have no obligation to avoid offending Muslims, not that I would go out of my way to do so. But if I said something true and offense was taken, so be it.

    There are many things that might offend these same Muslims, apart from cartoons of The Prophet: speaking of The Prophet without adding Peace Be Upon Him (PBUH), speaking of Allah without using one of his 99 names (The Merciful, etc.), and the SI Swimsuit Issue.

    We should not countenance infringements on our free speech simply because someone might be “offended.” Nor should we be extorted into silence by the threat of violence.

  5. BIL – allow me to play Devil’s advocate for a moment.

    The first 5 chapters of the OT were hand written by Moses, transcribing the direct word of Yahweh. At least thats the story told by the fundies. So to them God DID write a book.

    Now I would want them to explain why, given a single author, Moses refers to himself in 1st, 2nd and 3rd person at various times. Why there are two different creation stories in Genesis. Why there are 7 distinct lists (and a few partial lists) of commandments he brought down from the mountain. When they get through those I have a couple hundred other questions.

    Rev Jones has to be praying like hell that there is no God & no after life.

  6. Jones has absolute protection from criminal prosecution. That’s a First Amendment issue.

    But he is not protected from a civil suit for damages by families of the victims. If they can proved that he acted recklessly and with malice, despite warnings by Petraeus, Gates and others — the victims could end up OWNING that church. Just like various African American victims ended up owning the property of a Klan group, recently.

    Is there a lawyer willing to file such a lawsuit? I bet Prof. Turley can name many former students who would.

  7. Frank:Rev Jones has to be praying like hell that there is no God & no after life.

    Truer words were never spoken. I have a theory, not a belief but a wish, that there is a hell, and the only people in it are the people who consigned others to it. Of course, then I’d have my own problems…

  8. personally I would say burning a book is significantly different from killing people.

    One is legal free speech and the other is murder. If a group needs to kill people to protest the burning of a sacred book there is something rotten and it isnt in Denmark nor in Florida.

    Sharia Law is a totalitarian law of men to keep other men (and women) in fear for their lives so they may be manipulated to do the will of God.

    I’ll take burning a book any day of the week. I would guess the Florida Crack er Pastor would probably not kill 20 people if someone burned a bible on the other side of the world. Just sayin.

  9. “Muslims around the world have protested the burning of a Quran (Koran) by Florida preacher Rev. Terry Jones by killing 20 people and injuries dozens of others.”

    If I may offer a slight quibble, I’m not sure it’s fair to say “around the world.” As near as I can tell, the violence and killing are taking place only in Afghanistan. I haven’t heard of Muslims in Jakarta or Michigan or elsewhere rioting and killing over this.

    Maybe 40+ years of constant warfare combined with a tribal and relatively uneducated population has more to do with a propensity toward violence than adherence to a particular faith.

  10. rafflaw
    1, April 4, 2011 at 11:25 am
    It is the idiotic blind in Florida leading the idiotic blind in Afghanistan.

    ==================================================

    Yep … that sums it up nicely.

  11. I don’t disagree as far as the role the law should play in connection with Jones and the important protection of free speech. However, moral responsibility can be much broader than legal responsibility. Jones engaged in his actions knowing, and quite possibly hoping, that violence would likely be the result. No, he didn’t kill anyone, but he shares moral responsibility for the violence that he deliberately incited.

  12. I doubt the pastor didn’t know that this would lead to killing or as he was warned it would in regard to getting our soldiers killed. I believe the FBI talked with him about this and so I don’t believe his claim. Of course, this is a Florida pastor and they seem notorious for being of low intelligence.

    Again, this may have nothing to do with hate. You cannot prove it is hate unless hatred is admitted. And hate is not necessarily a bad thing. It is good to hate many things. Nazism, for example. Pedophilia. Or theft.

    And, I would think that many here hate book burning.

    Hatred can be very good indeed.

    Frankly, I don’t mind burning any kind of filth that promotes the trafficking of women, which is what the Koran does.

    It is no surprise to me that leftists in America are for protecting some alleged right to promote trafficking and not upsetting the sensibilities of those who peddle it.

    I understand that it is illegal to promote harming a government official. Why is it not illegal to promote trafficking in women who are not serving in government?

  13. Original sentence:

    I doubt the pastor didn’t know that this would lead to killing or as he was warned it would in regard to getting our soldiers killed.

    Corrected sentence (in upper case lettering):

    I doubt the pastor didn’t know that this would lead to killing or MURDER as he was warned it would in regard to getting our soldiers killed.

  14. Along with Jones’ rights goes his responsibilities and he is without any doubt or question responsible for those deaths. I would like to see some “rendition” used on him and have him delivered naked to a public square in Kabul with his name on a big sign proclaiming his right to burn any religion’s texts.

  15. Somebody at Unocal needs to get ahold of this Terry Jones fella and explain to him how this is going to mess up natural gas futures. Maybe they could just buy this pud-wacker a new Cadillac and a new mega-church building. Unocal gave money to the Taliban to try to chill them out, howsa’bout turining down the volume on our own crazies? Come on Unocal my 401K needs you!

  16. I’d like to see the “good” pastor go to a Muslim country and burn the Q’uran but that would take balls.

    I hope this guy is proud of himself – now he really has blood on his hands.

    ————————————————————-

    “Stamford Shabazz (Malek)”

    Nice try, Taliban. Good dog you’re pathetic

  17. It is time to admit that people who commit or support violence in the name of religion (both secular as in political parties or overtly religious) are doing so of their own accord. God or the party leader may tell you to do something or to accept it. Because god, his self appointed emissaries or the party leader told you to do it, does not mean it is a good idea or that you should do it. You are making a choice to follow god’s emissaries or the political leader when they tell you to kill or tolerate murder and torture. This is not how a thinking, feeling human being should be living her life. Human beings have the capacity for judgment. We need to use it. Powerful gods or figures who tell people to kill or tolerate killing and torture are not worthy of our allegiance. Neither are holy books who recommend these things.

  18. I personally think he should be tried for commiting a hate crime. This is not free speach, this is down right a hate crime and should be prosacuted

  19. To G Newman: What would be the basis for a civil action against Jones by the relatives of people murdered in Afghanistan?

    I believe that the Klan case brought by the Sothern Poverty Law Center was about the murder of a young black man. The SPLC was able to show that the men who attacked the black man were influenced by the hateful rhetoric of their Klan group. There is no parallel here.

    Sandy: If there was a “hate crime” it was against a book, not against the victims of Muslim violence.

    Somehow otherwise reasonable people want to link Jones to the murders and sanction him somehow. They are welcome to picket his church if they want, shun him, make a pariah of him, but there is no criminal or civil case for him to answer to.

    If “hate” speech were indeed actionable, there would be one less TV network on cable. Also, in cities across the country, much of the AM dial would spout only static, as Rush Limbaugh and company are frog-marched out of their broadcasting booths.

  20. catch22oy:

    ” If “hate” speech were indeed actionable, there would be one less TV network on cable. Also, in cities across the country, much of the AM dial would spout only static, as Rush Limbaugh and company are frog-marched out of their broadcasting booths.”

    Proves that money talks.

  21. A guy burns a book of fables, some other guys kill a bunch of people because they believe the fables and the guy who burned the book should be arrested for a hate crime?

    Now that is a crock.

  22. Dredd,

    “… readers were introduced to the perplexing virgin species of reptile leiolepis ngovantrii, a species that is composed of females only.

    Virgin mothers are the sole source of the newborns in that population of reptiles”

    Uh,oh … are you saying Jesus is a female lizard??

  23. Stamford Liberal
    1, April 4, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    Dredd,

    “… readers were introduced to the perplexing virgin species of reptile leiolepis ngovantrii, a species that is composed of females only.

    Virgin mothers are the sole source of the newborns in that population of reptiles”

    Uh,oh … are you saying Jesus is a female lizard??

    =============================================

    lol … as penance for laughing I will now burn another page out of my revered copy of the Kama Sutra, a truly holy book …

  24. how dare he burn the Quran? how would he like it if Muslims burned the bible? he needs to take it to a prespective of how this will result to. would you like it if Muslims burned the bible? the answer is no, you wouldn’t like it. Muslims are outraged by the action that he took. Also, he is making things worst for the soldiers in Afghanistan because of him, Afghan people are attacking the soldiers, killing his own people. This is not right, and we need to find a way to make things better. Jones needs to take resonsibility for his actions. nuff said.

  25. Blouise,

    “as penance for laughing I will now burn another page out of my revered copy of the Kama Sutra, a truly holy book”

    ANYTHING but the Kama Sutra, Blouise! To do so would relegate you and your significant other to a future of premature ejaculations and genital warts …

    ———————————————————–

    rafflaw,

    “you better get the soap out to wash your mouths out once Tootie reads your virgin lizard reference!!”

    Lmao – virginal lizards are the LEAST of Taliban Tooties problems!!!

  26. One wonders what motivated Jones’ actions. Was he trying to make money? Probably. Was he intending to incite violence? Maybe.
    It would be interesting to see if people’s opinion of this episode changed if Jones stated his intent was to inflame and enrage people.
    I don’t believe what Jones did was illegal and I do not believe he should be held responsible for what happened. But if he were to ever say that he expected or wanted the violence to occur I would hope that the people who were murdered could sue him.
    I guess that is the only question: Did he intend or want violence to occur because of his act. He just may be stupid enough to admit it. I know the quickest way to get beat up would be to go to a church on Sunday and burn a Bible.

  27. I heard Thom Hartmann talking on his radio program about a 2003 Supreme Court finding that allowed for cross burning (assumes Bible and/or Quran burning are apt substitutes) unless it is done in public and with the intent to harm, intimidate, etc. Would this be applicable for arresting Jones on a federal charge? Please, someone say it is.

  28. Our government only pretends to condemn those who fan the flames of Islamophobia. Even Bush understood that domestic support for seemingly endless war in the region only rises with increased fear of Islam. The neocons – including many in the White House – are no doubt pleased with this new fuel on the fire.

  29. Islam is no more a real live boogie man than any of the other fairy tale based religions like Christianity. Which is not to say it’s not a boogie man. It’s just not the only boogie man. And the world would be a much better place if everyone would just come to realize that there is no difference between an adult who believes in an invisible judgmental sky daddy and a child who believes there is a boogie man under their bed. They are both prone to act irrationally.

    Don’t go to sleep with your closet open or Mohamed will get you!

    And if you fall asleep with a foot hanging off the bed, Jesus will pull you under and eat your face!

    These statements are no more and no less ridiculous than “We have to follow these rules because Our Big Black Book of Ancient Fairy Tales says so.”

  30. BIL,

    They say that “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” … but is it flatterly if coming from a dumbass troll? :)

  31. Here is the meme: Core teachings of Islam drive an inhuman savagery among followers, compelling them to act out against so-called free societies in the West and particularly the United States.

    The reality: Aggression and terrorism against the United States is primarily created by illegitimate and immoral US actions in the region. This includes decades of military action, occupation, murders, theft and installation of US-backed dictatorships.

    I see no sign that the apparent bipartisan consensus seeking US hegemony throughout the middle east will end, and therefore I see no end to the incentives to apply terrorist tactics to stop us. Islam really has no bearing on this dynamic. We control our fate; the Quran does not.

  32. puzzling, I don’t think we necessarily control our fate. There are many forces at work in the world.

  33. Swarthmore mom,

    Glenn Greenwald explained this view better tonight than I could, exactly one minute after I posted here.

    Primitive Muslims’ unique love of violence

    Boy, those primitive, dirty, lowly Muslims sure do have a bizarre, unique cultural compulsion toward violence and barbarism, don’t they?

    Nuke ’em. Invade ’em. Torture ’em. Occupy ’em. Murder their scientists and religious leaders. Put ’em in cages for life without due process. Reduce ’em to rubble. Why? Because Muslims are so prone to violence and barbarism! That’s a fairly succinct summary of America’s political culture for the last decade at least.

  34. puzzling, I will still say that the are always other factors at work. Japan did not have control of its destiny either. No country is totally in control of its destiny.

  35. No country totally controls its destiny if the US Empire wants a say in it. You’re right about that.

    My earlier point is that we have the power to stop most terrorism against us by simply withdrawing from the region. We have no right to be there in the first place. Not only does our constant meddling infuriate the local population and incite US hatred, but it is bankrupting us and the simmering resentment represents a huge risk to our national security.

  36. rafflaw
    1, April 4, 2011 at 10:55 pm
    Swarth more,
    You forgot that Japan was hit because of the gays
    =============================================================

    i recall ahmadinejad said there are no homosexuals in iran. no tsunamis there.
    gay people are tsunami magnets.

  37. Its certainly easy for cowards with keyboards to defend this book burning preacher from the safety of their couches. There are Americans in harms way (whether we support the wars or not) and David Patraeus got it right last September when he warned about this, and yesterday when he condemned the act.

    Extremist fundamentalists believe their ends justify the means, ask the friends and family of Dr. Tiller about their liberty. Tolerance of intolerance is freedom for one at the expense of another’s freedom; hardly the vision of the first amendment.

  38. Yes i agree some muslims are violent but has the “preacher” even read the Al-Quran before BURNING it ?Cause i did .The Al -quran thought TRUE muslims to love our enemies .In the al-quran it tells a story about prophet muhammad …back then those who refuse to believe that ALLAH exist hated prophet muhammad cause they think that he was just being ridiculous & ppl throwed stones at him till he bleed….but did he beat that person or “BLOW” the ppl up?no ,he did not because Allah dont teach his followers to be violent in fact he teaches us to love our enemies….and so prophet muhammad tried his best to get as many ppl to believe that is god and his name is ALLAH .He tried to save as many ppl to get them to the right path …now let me ask u if one group of muslims learns being violent towards their enemies and to the innocent than im sure as hell the quran did not teach them ….Btw i have read the BIBLE …dude it is almost the same as the quran only different names & in the Bible …JESUS was human…but in the quran ALLAH was not born or be borned he was special …that was the only difference so might u burn ur bible tooo.STUPID SIA!KNOW UR ENEMIES BACKGROUND MOTHER F*(@^&#()*^)*^@&

  39. oh and yeah …hmmm obviously burning the bible will cost war so it means there are many deaths rite?at least more than 20…so dont u think the”preacher” is making it worse…?& btw he should be ashamed to call himself a Rev. i mean seriously WTF …i dont think jesus thought his followers to burn other religions HOLY BOOK..or did he?

    hmmm anyway ..dont be so sursprised if someone wanted to burn the bible or any other holy book …u r the one who started the trend….u r such a good Christian;)may my God forgive ur sins…AMIN!;)
    ZAFIRAH

  40. eniobob:

    If “hate” speech were “actionable”, and if Republicans get full power some day in the major branches of the federal government, and it is likely to happen, this blog would be shut down for committing it because hate will be what Republicans define it to be. If “hate” speech can be whatever we wish Republicans will learn to do these same tricks that Democrats taught them. And what is good for the goose will be good for the gander.

    Unless I tell you that I hate someone have no proof that I do. You would only be guessing. It could be something else. Anger. Fear. Misunderstanding. Even emotional distress. It is difficult to scientifically prove emotions. Furthermore, hate can be a most excellent emotion. I, for example, hate robbery.

    You can prove murder. And robbery. And you can even prove negligence. These are not feelings but actions or in-actions. But hate? Or even love? You cannot prove them conclusively. You might get close to determining them only if admitted verbally by the person and matched by their ACTIONS. Even then other motives or intangibles may be in operation.

    May you not get what you wish for because someday it may be applied to you.

  41. for being an extremist bigot, “Taliban Tootie” certainly understands the issue of hate speech better than any of the posters on this blog.

  42. That would be because she’s a master at spewing it, ergo, any understanding Tootles has of hate speech is strictly from the administrative side. Because it’s not hate speech when Tootles spouts it. It’s just what Jesus wants. He was big on hatred, don’t you know.

    (BTW, Tootles, you’re not fooling anybody.)

  43. Tootie is much smarter than Buddha is Laughing. Don’t listen to Buddha is Laughing, listen to Tootie.

  44. Tootie for President, Buddha is Laughing for Road Apple Containment Facilitator. (cause he likes an overblown title to go with his ego)

    Road Apple – horse sh%*^&@t

  45. Just because I have clothing smarter than Tootles is no reason to pitch a hissy fit.

    And I’d think Tootles would be the expert here on road apples.

    Being that’s what her head is packed with.

    (And you’re still not fooling anyone, Theocratic Bigot.)

  46. you have smart clothing? I heard they were developing that at MIT.

    You must a Smart Car as well.

  47. It’s not manufactured by Smart, but it is smarter than you, troll. For example, it knows when it is broken and tells me so. Whereas you have no clue that you are broken because you are an anosognosiac.

  48. BIL,

    Just when I didn’t think Taliban Tootie could be any more pitiful, she has managed to surpass my already low opinion of her.

    I’m guessing her doctor’s are happy though – she’s finally sorting out all of those voices in her head …

  49. Tootie
    1, April 5, 2011 at 6:41 am
    If Tea Party folks only care about themselves why is it that conservatives are more benevolent to charitable causes than leftist scumbags?

    —————————————————-

    Ah … no hatred here! Can’t you just feel the love of Jesus? Now, who would Jesus call a scumbag …

  50. An excellent example of political theater played on both sides. The Rev wanted more publicity (which translates to cash/power) so he performs a provocative act, availing himself of a constitutional right which he doesn’t believe in for others. He has
    succeeded. Karzai, and Afghan thug gets installed as President by the fools of Bush, realizes who’s winning and moves to again switch sides. He uses this obscure act of a malicious Fla minister
    to inflame his people and establish his bona fides with the Taliban. It’s a win/win for the parties and a loss for the rest of us.

  51. Awww … the poor media whore’s feeling left out … and feels no responsibility for what’s happening in Afghanistan … Gee, WWJD?

    Radical Pastor Terry Jones Says He’s Considering ‘A Trial On The Life Of Mohammed’

    Responding to news that Florida pastor Terry Jones had last week burnt the Quran, a mob of Afghans in the relatively calm city of Mazar-i-Sharif ransacked the United Nations headquarters there, killing 12 people. Last year, Jones sparked widespread condemnation when he threatened to burn a copy of the Quran outside his church. While he ultimately decided against it after pleas from high ranking U.S. officials such as Gen. David Petraeus and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Jones last week burned the Quran after a supposed “trial” of the Muslim holy book at his church found it guilty of “crimes against humanity.”

    Violent protests in Afghanistan have now spread as far south as Kandahar. However, Jones feels no sense of responsibility. “We do not feel responsible,” he said on Friday. “We feel more that the Muslims and radical Islam uses that as an excuse.” Now, in an interview with the Daily Telegraph, Jones says he might also put the prophet Mohammad on trial:

    Terry Jones, the radical pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran in his Florida church last month after a mock court hearing, may put the Islamic prophet Mohammed on trial in his next ‘day of judgement’, he told The Sunday Telegraph.

    “It is definitely a consideration to stage a trial on the life of Mohammed in the future,” he said in interview on Saturday.

    Jones said in an interview with ABC News that his burning of the Quran “definitely does prove that there is a radical element of Islam. … I believe the UN needs to stand up to countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Muslim-dominated countries. They have been persecuting, killing Christians for generations.”

    Una Moore, a development professional based in Afghanistan, wrote on UN Dispatch on Friday that the reaction to Jones in Mazar-i-Sharif marks “the end” of the international community’s involvement in Afghanistan:

    Foreigners have been killed in Afghanistan before, and today’s attack was not the first fatal attack on UN staff. But it was different than previous fatal attacks. Very different. The killers were ordinary residents of a city deemed peaceful enough to be one of the first places transferred to the control of Afghan security forces.

    “Terry Jones and others will continue to pull anti-Islam stunts and opportunistic extremists here will use those actions to incite attacks against foreigners,” she wrote, adding, “Unless we, the internationals, want our guards to fire on unarmed protesters from now on, the day has come for us to leave Afghanistan.”

    Update The Washington Post reports that Jones acknowledged he broke his promise not to burn a Quran. “If you want to be technical,” he said, “I guess we broke our word.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/03/terry-jones-trial-mohammed/

  52. Dear apes,

    Yes, there are other tribes of apes, they are different than you. However, since your territories are fairly well separated, there’s no reason to try and wipe each other out.

    Signed,
    Humanity.

    There’s only one way to settle this, every twenty years we have all religions choose a leader to represent them, the one whose representative can piss the furthest gets to be the dominant religion for this cycle.

    It’s just as primitive as fighting for dominance, but a lot less messy.

  53. “Terry Jones, the radical pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran in his Florida church last month after a mock court hearing, may put the Islamic prophet Mohammed on trial in his next ‘day of judgement’”

    Back in the Middle Ages Jewish scholars were forced to “debate” Christian scholars on the “truth” of each religion. It was of course an impossible situation for the Jewish Scholar involved because rhetorical punches had to be “pulled” or he would be guilty of blasphemy. Invariably, but not unexpectedly the Christian Theologian always “won.” Sometimes, not always though, the Jew was put to death for his “blasphemy.” Different methods, but the fundamentalist nonsense from all sides is little changed today.

  54. Tootie:

    love the sinner, hate the sin. Liberals aren’t bad people, they just have bad ideas and that is my personal opinion. There is a huge difference. Hell some conservatives are very bad people but they have good ideas. I think I would like to hang out with good people who have bad ideas rather than bad people who have good ideas.

    At least you know the good person is just misguided, but the bad person might have an ulterior motive.

    You might be a good person, but it seems like you aren’t even though you have some good ideas. You have lost all credibility and are on the same level as Stamford Liberal with your vile invective. You and SL are just the same coin but a different side.

    Jilted lover? Death of a child? What caused the hatred for liberals? Republicons have caused a good deal of pain and suffering as well. Why don’t you hate them too?

    Personally I am afraid of evangelical Christians, they are a scary bunch and would only be allies of the fundamentalist Muslims. Until they started fighting over whose God was superior. Which is a joke because there could be more than one God and if there is a God it might be the one God so everyone is praying to the being anyway. The entire religion thing is rather hard to follow.

    Why cant we all just be human beings first? And agree that we all have different ideas about everything and the best way to be a human being is in an atmosphere of peace and freedom. And I don’t mean freedom from want but freedom. As in I do my thing and you do your thing, I don’t judge your thing if you don’t judge my thing. I also don’t want you preventing me from doing my thing and I wont prevent you from doing yours. As long as my thing doesn’t harm anyone and respects other people’s right to do their thing.

    Seems to me the golden rule works in many cases and it isn’t just for religion.

  55. Doobie a Dont Be

    “You have lost all credibility and are on the same level as Stamford Liberal with your vile invective.”

    Yeah, uh … Taliban Tootie and I are on nowhere near the same level. I’m not a coward who hides behind religion to justify my dislike of someone – I make my dislike of people like Taliban known, on my own, not because some old white guy in the sky tells me so.

    I will also point out that I’m just giving Taliban back what she dishes out … but your “concern” is duly noted …

  56. “And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war).” Surah 4:24, the Koran.

    In other words, Osama bin Laden can have sex with your wife if he captures her and it is considered virtuous, according to Allah. Then he can sell her to his friends.

    That is Islam and the kind of stuff Democrats get excited about and defend.

  57. Doobie:

    It is mighty arrogant of you to assume I hate sinners. If you loved me you wouldn’t have made that mistake.

  58. Doobie

    You wrote: “I don’t judge your thing if you don’t judge my thing.”

    I never judged “your thing” heretofore (not that I recall) but yet you just judged me (e.g. You falsely accuse me of hating liberals). So are you lying to me? How could you judge me unless I had already judged you? When did I do that? Have I even ever “met” you before on this blog? If I have, I surely don’t remember.

    And I don’t mind your judging me either. You seem to be the only one between us who is bothered by the idea of judging.

    If you continue to judge other people, then you might want to stop acting like it is something bad except when you do it.

    And regarding your false accusation that I hate liberals? My response to that is to ask you to PLEASE stop lobbing invectives at me.

  59. “If you continue to judge other people, then you might want to stop acting like it is something bad except when you do it.”

    Part of comedy is not just the words, but the speaker.

    The comic exaggeration here comes from the blatant hypocrisy of the speaker.

    “If you continue selling fried chicken, then you might want to stop acting like it is something bad except when you do it,” said Colonel Sanders to Popeye.

    See how that works?

  60. Buddha:

    I want Doobie to sell his/her chicken without reservation, as I reserve the right to sell mine whenever I choose.

    Doobie says he/she will sell chicken to me only if I first sell chicken to Doobie. But I never sold any chicken to Doobie and yet Doobie has forced his chicken down my throat and demanded that I buy it.

  61. Awwww. Isn’t that cute! “I know you are but what am I?” Tootles, have you been taking argument lessons from pre-schoolers again?

    As I’ve already told you, being a bigot against bigots like yourself isn’t a character flaw. The difference being that I admit I’m bigoted against bigots and being biased against bad behavior – namely bigotry – is by definition good behavior. You may call it bigotry, but most sane people call being against bigots exercising both good conscience and proper ethically based discrimination.

  62. “You falsely accuse me of hating liberals”

    Gee, doesn’t everyone show their affection by calling others scumbags, evil, depraved, stupid, ignorant, blah, blah, blah?

    I think I will when I see my kid later, I will show her the love by calling her a no-good, lazy, evil feminazilesbosocialfascistislamascumbag … and give her a big hug!

  63. Anonymously Yours,

    “So Tootie what you are really saying is that you are now chicken shit…good metaphor….”

    First good laugh of the day … thanks, AY!!

  64. Stamford Liberal: You included a quote in your post:

    Una Moore, a development professional based in Afghanistan, wrote on UN Dispatch on Friday that the reaction to Jones in Mazar-i-Sharif marks “the end” of the international community’s involvement in Afghanistan

    Wouldn’t it be a hoot if we had to thank Pastor Jones for ending the Afghan War?

  65. Buddha:

    Oh I see, only you can slap on labels? Well, that is more like pre-school thinking than any thing I’m doing. And you are not going to get me to stop it just because you think you own the sandbox. You are simply having a tantrum because I am not going to let you slap these labels on me without some blow-back headed your way.

    So get used to it, junior. You can stop it with the false accusations anytime you wish and we can proceed with the issues. Or we can play you game. I’m up for it.

    For you to stop it would take a certain level of competence on your part and you appear to not have enough of that to bring it to fruition. Another example of your inabilities is demonstrated by your stupid conclusion that it is bigotry to call a bigot a bigot. Or in your words:

    “As I’ve already told you, being a bigot against bigots like yourself isn’t a character flaw.”

    This isn’t shocking news, but isn’t bigotry to tell the truth. And if you are telling the truth about me (which you are not) then you are not being a bigot by saying so.

    I know a person of your moral character might find this confusing, but I assure you that it isn’t necessary for you to invent a new thing like “acceptable bigotry” for you to get out of the little mess you just put yourself in. Totally unnecessary. Now that you have confessed your sin: go and sin no more.

    Bigotry is bad no matter what and you need not invent a new category for it, put yourself into it, and then claim it is a good thing just to justify your being bigoted. No one of any respectable philosophical reputation that I know of has promoted the idea of a good bigotry. I don’t believe you are trail-blazing a new moral code. You might need to get over yourself. It appears that you are merely confusing yourself because of your own ignorance of the meaning of the word bigotry.(And I have pointed this out to you several times).

    If you are telling the truth about me, then you are not being a bigot.

    And you just admitted to the world you are a bigot (which has been my contention all along). Thanks for the honesty. It confirms I was correct all along and the insults I received from as a result of the charge I laid against you were unwarranted. And you may think (I’m sure you do) that I have enough “sins” to warrant anything you have charged against me. But, by your own admission here, it likely proves you wrong on that.

    Soon, you will be telling me it is OKAY for you to be a racist because you think I am one.

    As crazy as it would be for one to believe that one can be a bigot for telling the truth (according to your new moral theory), it goes a long way in explaining why you think I am a bigot though I am not.

    You don’t even know when bigotry should or should not apply to yourself let alone to others.

    You are extremely confused.

  66. Stamford Liberal 1, April 6, 2011 at 10:32 am

    “You falsely accuse me of hating liberals”

    Gee, doesn’t everyone show their affection by calling others scumbags, evil, depraved, stupid, ignorant, blah, blah, blah?

    ################################

    No, “everyone” does not show affection by name-calling in the demeaning sense.

    Since when did self-disrespect become affection?

    Not so very long ago, I bought a birthday present for my wife, a book. Harry Bernstein, “The Invisible Wall,” Ballantine Books, 2008.

    On one side of a street lived the Bernstein family, the Harris family, and other Jews; on the other side of the street lived the Forshaw family, the Turnbull family, and other Christians. Harry’s oldest sister, Lily, fell in love with Arthur Forshaw and Arthur Forshaw fell in love with Lily, and they became married.

    Arthur Forshaw and Lily Bernstein were able to cross that invisible wall because, except as mere imagination, there never was and never will be such a wall — or so I have always observed.

    While I find I am an insignificant person to whatever extent anyone else is insignificant, I also find that I am a significant person to the same extent as anyone else is significant.

    Therefore, I do not, and can not, make myself or my life more significant than otherwise by working to make someone else less significant than I am.

    Neither can I make myself or my life less significant by working to make someone else more significant than I am.

    I have no need to “play king of the mountain” by trashing other people, other people’s experiences, or other people’s beliefs.

    I do evaluations of events and I make no judgments in doing evaluations. It is my evaluation of social competition that people who have been taught aspects of self disrespect which I never learned may use psychological defenses which are of attempts to demean other people as a way of avoiding dealing with one’s own sense of personal validity or personal invalidation.

    No one has ever been able to teach me that I am in any useful way exceptional, whether for good or for bad.

    If people destructively compete with each other, is anything achievable other than a plunge to the bottom of the pit of unrelenting retaliation?

    I disagree with myself far more than I disagree with anyone else; I simply spend more time with myself than anyone else, and so have far more experiences of self than of others and more experiences of self with which to disagree than of others.

    I cannot know or understand anything my life experiences have not allowed me to learn, for want of my having been given the required learning experiences. I find this to be true no matter who else, who has had experiences not exactly identical with mine, may have learned which I have been unable to learn.

    Is it really that different for me than for anyone else?

    Perhaps the invisible wall is not down the middle of a street, but down the middle of many, if not most, individual people?

    Perhaps the invisible wall separates what people say from what people do?

    Perhaps the invisible wall separates what people know from what people understand?

    Perhaps the invisible wall does not exist except as a mistaken belief?

    For over seventy years, I have heard people say, “We are not like them.” Only, “they” say the same thing about us…

    I am one of them, and not one of us; only they are us, and we are they and they are we; and the little piggy cried “we we we, all the way home?

    I voted yesterday in Wisconsin.

    I voted for recognition of the non-existence of invisible walls.

  67. Oh of course Tootie….I am…do liberals taste better with or without catchup? I wanna know….a chicken by definition is a liberal…don’t you know…thats why they cross the road….

    SL,

    You are welcome…..I wanted to not insult any others as Tootie does a good job all by herself…

  68. “You falsely accuse me of hating liberals”

    Really Tootie?

    Does “liberal scumbags” ring a bell? Don’t abuse my intelligence by saying “scumbag” in that context isn’t hateful.

  69. Tootles,

    You are extremely confused if you think I need your approval in accurately describing your behavior past and present. Bigot is as bigot does, homophobic racist zealot. In addition to you being what you is?

    You make me laugh.

    I don’t just discriminate against bigots. I also discriminate against thieves and pedophiles too. Many other kinds of criminals and sociopaths as well. See, you miss the point of “judge not lest ye be judged”. It’s an evocation against unreasoned and irrational judgments, not against judgments themselves. People judge each other all the time. Homophobia and racism – two of your demonstrated bigoted behaviors – are both unreasoned and irrational. They threaten your preconceptions of reality. Too bad for you, reality exists without your approval. The difference being that I accept the reality that people come in different colors and sexual orientations whereas you do not. Or perhaps you do and your response is simple hatred. Either way, it shows a profound disconnect with reality on your part.

    Which is hardly surprising.

    Simple is as simple does, Forrest.

    And if you are anything, it is a simple creature, Tootles.

  70. catch22oy,

    “Wouldn’t it be a hoot if we had to thank Pastor Jones for ending the Afghan War?”

    Would kicking him in the ass classify as a “thank you?” :)

    ——————————————-

    AY,

    I would feel sorry for Taliban but … since I’m a liberal scumbag, I tend to not feel compassion for my fellow humans …

  71. You state that you do not blame Jones for the violence, that it is the fault of the murderous extremists. The problem with your position is that it is a logical fallacy. Blame may not be restricted to just one party. Blame can be shared, assigned to multiple parties. Perhaps the felony murder rule is an example of blame being placed on more than the actual killer. I believe Mr. Jones and those who took part in the “trial” share blame for the violence and deaths resulting from their actions.

  72. Here’s why.

    To paint an analogy, if you called me an a**hole, and I decided in response to go apesh*t and shoot some acquaintances of yours who happen to be nearby, would you be partially responsible for the murders? Of course, not. It would be insane or illogical to claim so, and your excuse-making here for Islamic extremism/terr0rism is no less insane or illogical, I am afraid.

    Jones’ action was arguably unwise (but he was exercising his freedom of expression), and an appropriate response for any Muslim person offended by it would have been to (privately or publicly) burn a Bible or two (or a few hundred Bibles if they were really mad), but not killing innocent people who, in this case, were actually there to help the people of Afghanistan.

    The Koran riot killings are utterly disgusting and inhumane actions, and rational people of all stripes should condemn such insanity. To do otherwise, as Maher puts it in the video here:
    http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/08/maher_islam_only_religion_that_kills_you_when_you_disagree_with_them.html
    is nothing short of “soft bigotry of low expectations.”

  73. I failed to make my position clear. Blue Fox believes a am making excuses for the people who killed innocent UN workers. I did not intend that meaning. I merely wished to point out that Jones has some blame as well. To use blue Fox’s example, if I have a reasonable expectation that calling him an a**hole will lead to the death of others, whether they are relatives or not, puts blame on me if I call him an a**hole. I may have the constitutional right to call him an a**hole..but that does not abslove me of moral blame if I know doing so will likely lead to the death of someone. I condemn the killings of the UN workers. But that does not mean I can’t also condemn the acts of the fool that led to the killings.

  74. You have got to be kidding me. This is an example of the “perfect matching of religious fueled hatred”. So burning a book is the moral equivalent of murdering a few dozen people?

    Even more ridiculous is the nonsense from idiots who claim that Jones is somehow responsible for the actions of the murderous Islamic thugs (sorry for the redundance). The comment above from Duane Skelton is the perfect example of such idiocy. So now Jones is to blame because someone has committed murder, because they said that Jones burning the book would make them do so? So if I walk up to a random person on the street and tell him that if he drives away in a car, I will murder someone, and he does so, does that make him ” morally responsible”? After all, as in the example from Duane Skelton, I warned him I would murder someone if he drove away in a car. I think we know the answer to that question. Yes my example is idiotic, but then so is the absurd nonsense from Duane Skelton.

    The only individuals “morally responsible” for the murders that were committed are those who committed them.

  75. The following quote is yet more idiotic nonsense from Duane Skelton:
    “You state that you do not blame Jones for the violence, that it is the fault of the murderous extremists. The problem with your position is that it is a logical fallacy. Blame may not be restricted to just one party. Blame can be shared, assigned to multiple parties. Perhaps the felony murder rule is an example of blame being placed on more than the actual killer. I believe Mr. Jones and those who took part in the “trial” share blame for the violence and deaths resulting from their actions.”

    So Jones shares blame? So Jones is somehow just as culpable as those who committed the murder? A man burns a book, so when a mob goes out and murders individuals not even remotely involved in said burning, Jones is also at fault? You have got to be kidding me? You really need to rethink what it is to live in a free society because you are obviously clueless. Your “logic” is similar to that of defense attorneys who claim a woman is equally culpable in her rape because she wore a short skirt. According to morons like Duane Skelton, we all need to walk on eggshells because irrational thugs might use are actions as an excuse to murder someone, thus, according to Duane “I am idiot Skelton” we are just as guilty as the actual perpetrators. If a Muslim wakes up tomorrow and says “if you draw a picture of Muhammad, I will kill someone”, according to Duane, the person who draws the picture deserves blame for any resultant murders committed. If a Muslim goes on TV and claims that selling alcohol and eating pork is offensive enough to provoke murder, according to Duane Skelton, every beer distributor and pork-eater is culpable in any murders that occur. You can claim my examples are foolish, but they are no more foolish than claiming that the burning of a book, yes, a f#@$*% book, for Christ sake, somehow makes one equally to blame in the resultant murders of completely innocent individuals.

  76. Man, some of the people that post here are absolute morons. Take Laughing Buddha for example. He is clearly one of those arrogant know-it-all pricks who makes the rest of us who call themselves atheists look bad. The following is an example of his stupidity:
    “No God, under any name, anywhere, and at any time has ever written a book nor would they need to write a book.

    A being with absolute omnipresences and omnipotence would not need a book to make mortal creatures believe as it wants them to believe.

    It would simply make it so.

    It’s a god. Free from the physical constraints of the universe. A God can, by definition, accomplish what it wants within the physical universe simply by divine will.”

    Hey moron, before you go criticizing people who belong to a religion you clearly know absolutely nothing about, perhaps you should look up that religion’s teachings on God and the free will of man, particularly as it relates to man’s acceptance of God. As an example, many Christian philosophers a whole hell of a lot smarter than you have written a seemingly endless amount on just that topic.

    Your post reminds me of the more idiotic atheists (and I am an atheist, so don’t try to mock me for believing in God)who think they somehow are playing a trump card on believers when they use the juvenile “if your god is so great, why does he allow bad things to happen” nonsense.

    You really, really need to read up on what a particular religion believes in regards to free will and God’s supposed involvement in every single occurrence everywhere on Earth at all times before you make an ass of yourself writing such nonsense about God “simply mak[ing]” everyone believe in his existence.

  77. “Man, some of the people that post here are absolute morons.”

    It is really rewarding when some of the fools that drop in here expose their failings within the context of their own content.
    Only someone of the greatest ignorance would use such a ridiculous sobriquet and make blanket statements about groups of other people. What is most amusing about this fools comments is that they are clearly meant to be upsetting to liberals, yet only succeed in exposing the ignorance of the poster. Amuse us more please? We need your kind of fool to show us how lucky we are to be people who can think, rather than those like you who pretend they are capable of thinking.

Comments are closed.