Respectfully submitted by Lawrence Rafferty (rafflaw)- Guest Blogger
It seems that almost everywhere you look, some State is trying to reduce the number of early voting days, purging the voting rolls and making it harder for citizens to cast their votes. The State of Florida has recently attempted to remove legitimate voters off its voter rolls and the State of Georgia recently attempted to restrict the time when a military absentee ballot can be counted as I wrote about earlier on this blog. Georgia Now, we have some hard evidence of just who is getting removed or impacted by the various State’s attempts to cure the imagined Voter fraud problem!
“Their data suggests that beyond the wide variation in purge rates across states, there is significant variation within states:
In many states, certain parts of the state electorate, both geographically and demographically, are much more likely to be dropped off of the voter rolls than others. More specifically, some general trends that we see are focused on:
a. Urbanity – cities are getting disproportionately purged
b. Race – minorities are getting disproportionately purged
c. Marital Status – unmarried people are getting disproportionately purged
d. Age – younger (< 40 years old) and older (> 65 years old) voters are purged more frequently than middle-aged voters
e. County effects – there are big differences across county lines, pointing to sharp discontinuities based on arbitrary political boundaries that do not correspond with inherent behavioral differences
Catalist notes that more than 2.7 million living people who voted in 2008 have since been purged from the voter rolls. Among those, African American voters are “1.5 times more likely to be purged than Caucasian voters, nationally.” ‘ Think Progress
It appears from the data above that Minorities are the big “winners” when it comes to the voter purge gambit. The young and the old seem to be the runners-up in the race to see which demographic gets the worst of the attempts to prevent legal voters from being able to vote. What could be behind this attempt to prevent minorities and the young and those older than 65 from voting? It couldn’t be politics, could it??!
What are these States afraid of? It cannot be voter fraud since the actual number of voter fraud incidents is infinitesimal. “In fact there were only nine instances of possible in-person voter fraud between 2000 and 2007, and it is more likely that an individual will get struck by lightning than they will commit voter fraud. In the lawsuit brought by the ACLU against Pennsylvania’s voter ID law, the state formally acknowledged that no in-person voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania and they don’t expect any to occur in November.” Think Progress
Let see if I understand this. One side is claiming that voter purges and stricter voter ID laws are needed to prevent or stop a problem that at least in the case of the State of Pennsylvania, was not a problem in the past or likely in the future.
If there is no legitimate voter fraud problem now or in the near past, should these voter purges and voter ID laws be considered Voter Fraud? If so, why and if not, why not?
Additional sources: The Brennan Center
Meh. Non issue. Don’t like it? Get an ID. Simple, really. Unless you have warrants. Then, maybe not so much.
I hate to use this word but I am “conflicted” about these laws. What makes me think it’s reasonable to have a voter ID law is from a woman I know who has been an election judge in Anchorage for a couple decades. She is as liberal as they come. She hates Palin which should give her Turley blog cred. She says it has never been a problem and supports voter ID. That is not dispositive[another word I don't like], but certainly noteworthy
Nick,
if voter fraud is not a problem in Anchorage, why do you need to make it harder for minorities and the young and those older than 65 to vote?
rafflaw:
my son and daughter had to show a valid birth certificate to play sports in our county. I dont think it too much to ask to show some sort of photo ID at the polls. The precinct where I vote always asks to see my drivers license. I have no problem showing it to them and I am glad they ask.
This cuts both ways, I would think democrats would want to make sure republicans are only voting once. You know how we like to steal elections.
Bron,
Your example is not a valid one. Their is no evidence, repeat no evidence of a problem under the current voting situation so why change? Especially when it impacts certain demographics unfairly? A good portion of the reason for birth certificates is for the safety of the child.
It’s isn’t as simple as just getting an ID. Some state laws specify only a particular kind of ID. What voters have used in the past is often no longer legitimate. For many people, such as the elderly, disabled, Native Americans, the impoverished et al. getting the required ID is not easy, depending upon where one has to get it within what time constraints (there are fewer places to get these IDs with shorter hours). I could go on but you get the idea. This affects a great many people who have the right to vote. I would not dismiss this so cavalierly as a non-issue.
Would a nationwide compulsory voting Constitutional change get up?
Once that was done, you’d then need preferential voting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting). Minor parties can start to have an effective voice then. Green groups even.
Bah! Who am I kidding…… The USA, the beacon of democracy, that doesn’t practice it.
I’ll be back Faster than you can say furious. ROTFLMAO
There are motor vehicle departments all over the place. If a handicapped person can get to the polls they can certainly get to the DMV to get a picture ID.
Maybe Acorn needs to do more than just register people to vote.
What some are missing is that voting is basically a right which can only be abrogated through due process. Playing for a sports team is not a right. Also, some of these laws are constructed in such a way that some people especially older people and immigrants would never be able to provide satisfactory paperwork. (Ronald Reagan would not be able to vote in some states because he was born at home, is one such example.)
Bron,
I see you have not been to the typical DMV office lately. At our local DMV office, the average wait is usually at least an hour and often closer to two hours. My daughter is handicapped and cannot sit in her wheelchair for that long without exquisite pain. What that means in practical terms, is that she is probably not going to be allowed to vote, despite the fact she has an expired photo DL showing her current address, her Medicaid card, her library card and mail addressed to her.
Furthermore, in a number of areas, Republican governors have limited DMV hours and even closed some…..all in poor or largely Democratic leaning areas of their states. I am sure that is nothing but coincidence.
GOP War on Voting Targets Swing State
By Ari Berman
3/9/2012
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/gop-war-on-voting-targets-swing-states-20120309
Excerpt:
On March 7, 1963, civil rights activists were brutally beaten by police in Selma, Alabama, during the infamous “Bloody Sunday” march, for advocating for the right to vote. This week, forty-seven years later, today’s civil rights leaders retraced the march from Selma to Montgomery, protesting what NAACP President Ben Jealous calls “the greatest attack on voting rights since segregation.”
Since the 2010 election, Republicans have waged an unprecedented war on voting, with the unspoken but unmistakable goal of preventing millions of mostly Democratic voters, including students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly, from casting ballots in 2012. More than a dozen states, from Texas to Wisconsin and Florida, have passed laws designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process, whether by requiring birth certificates to register to vote, restricting voter registration drives, curtailing early voting, requiring government-issued IDs to cast a ballot, or disenfranchising ex-felons.
Within days, the crucial battlegrounds of Pennsylvania and Virginia will become the latest GOP states to pass legislation erecting new barriers to voting. If, as expected, the new laws lead to fewer Democrats casting ballots in November, both states could favor Republicans, possibly shifting the balance of power in Congress and denying Barack Obama a second term.
Pennsylvania will be the ninth GOP state since 2010 to require a photo ID in order to vote; the state’s law mandates a government-issued ID or one from a college or nursing home. According to a study by the Brennan Center for Justice, 11 percent of U.S. citizens lack a government-issued ID, but the numbers are significantly higher among young voters (18 percent), voters 65 or older (18 percent) and African-Americans (25 percent). Based on these figures, as many as 700,000 Pennsylvanians may not be able to vote in the next election. (Pennsylvania Secretary of State Carol Aichele claims 99 percent of Pennsylvanians possess the proper ID, which seems unlikely given the state’s large student, elderly and African-American population).
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/gop-war-on-voting-targets-swing-states-20120309#ixzz22iq7BJLP
Otteray,
Should we Americans care about the handicapped, elderly, students…those who may not have the kinds of photo ID’s required by some of the new laws being passed in “swing states?”
In Texas a near majority of counties do NOT have a DMV office by the way. In fact in Harris County where Houston is there is NO DMV office within the loop 610 which means that no innre city voter has means to get to the DMV if they do not have access to a car. There is no mass transit to them. Then there is a long two or more hour wait if they can stand that long.
My wifes best friend moved back to our area from Dallas where she was a registered voter. Her purse had been stolen and it had all of her ID in it so she had no photo ID. She had put in a voter change of address form, but got a notice from Montgomery County registrar that she was not a legal voter and could not vote! She put in another card, and thought the problem had been solved when she went to vote. Again, her notice was good enough to take her OFF the voting rolls in Dallas, but she could not get ON in Montgomery County. I personally drove her to the voting office with her birth certificate and she demanded the right to vote. I told that if they did not let her vote, our next stop was the US Attorney’s office in Houston to file charges against Montgomery County. Her name is Hispanic, so if it had been Smith, she would have had NO problem. She mentioned the US attorneys office in her chat with the registrar, and they let her vote, but a restricted ballot since they had screwed-up. Montgomery County is the heart of KLAN kountry so I was not too surprised.
We later found out that you had to be certified by the Department of Public Safety in order to register to vote. So she went and got a picture ID, even though she had been a voter for over 40 years and was a past Executive Director of the Harris county Democratic Party. This was an unofficial and ILLEGAL requirement BEFORE the latest ID bill was passed.
Great link Elaine! And the answer to your question is yes, we should care for everyone’s right to vote.
Raff,
I am aghast…. Who gains was the question….. No one in the long run…..we all take a hit…..
rafflaw, The point this woman makes is that the expectations are known and people comply w/o angst. She considers the expectations reasonable as compared to other requirements for id, and sees it as righteous.
Knowing how spin works, I see this as a preemptive strike on the validity of the vote in the Fall election should it be close. I’m skeptical by nature and profession.
Otteray Scribe:
I understand completely about your daughter. I would think if you told the DMV manager of your daughters problem they would accommodate her and let her jump ahead or set up an appointment for a specific time and date. A wheelchair is sometimes a way to makes things happen more quickly and most people dont mind a person in a wheelchair cutting in line for a legitimate reason.
If the state is requiring a photo ID, then they should make them available to all who want one. If that means paying for a RV and setting it up to provide photo ID’s then going to out of the way communities so be it.
I apologize but I live in a state where the dead cast votes regularly. The post office requests ID if I use a credit card, my bank asks for ID when I cash a check, can’t fly without identification. Want to buy a drink? Ditto.
Tricksy,
“I apologize but I live in a state where the dead cast votes regularly.”
What state is that? Do you have proof that the “dead cast votes regularly” in your state?
Tricksy:
can you nail it down a little bit? East or west of the Mississippi River; north or south of the Mason Dixon Line. Contiguous states?
ALEC’s Voter ID Laws Work to Overturn Hundreds of Years of Progressive Moves to Broaden Democracy
Corporations, 1 percenters and Republicans are working to ensure you don’t vote because they honestly believe you don’t count.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155307/alec's_voter_id_laws_work_to_overturn_hundreds_of_years_of_progressive_moves_to_broaden_democracy
Excerpt:
May 7, 2012
Corporations, 1 percenters and Republicans want to take America back. And by that they mean all the way to the 1780s when wealthy white men controlled the nation.
Because only they could vote .
In the intervening 230 or so years, America became increasingly democratic, eventually awarding the vote to white landless males; Quakers, Jews and Catholics; black men; women; Native Americans, and 18-year-olds.
The wealthy are nostalgic for the power they enjoyed when most states limited voting to landed gentry. Republicans are helping them return America to those plutocratic days by passing voter identification laws constraining suffrage by the 99 percent. Country club conservatives are converting voting from a universal right of citizenship to a privilege exclusive to select society members
Voter identification laws require citizens to provide specific documents before exercising their franchise. Depending on the state, these include a photo driver’s license, a passport or a permit to carry a concealed handgun . The Brennan Center for Justice and others have calculated that 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo identification. That’s 21 million citizens.
A survey by the Brennan Center showed that many Americans, primarily women, do not have proof of citizenship under their current name and certain groups, primarily the poor, elderly and minorities are less likely to possess the documents the new voter ID laws require.
The U.S. Department of Justice barred implementation of voter ID laws in Texas and South Carolina after determining that the restrictions would disproportionately limit minority citizens’ access to the polls. Texas and South Carolina are among 16 states with records of discrimination, including voter intimidation and poll taxes. As a result, they are required by the 1965 Voting Rights Act to secure federal approval before changing voting laws.
Another great link Elaine.
I guess I dont understand how hard it is to get a drivers license since I have been doing it for almost 40 years. I have also had to get a social security card and a birth certificate in those 40 years. I havent driven for the last 2 years and can always find someone to drive me around when I need to go somewhere.
I would say if you cannot figure out how to get to the DMV, you shouldnt be voting.
If liberals have a problem with this then set up bus trips to the DMV for shut-ins and minorities. There is more than one way to skin a cat, however I dont think this is about the handicapped and minorities voting. Having a photo ID makes it hard to vote when you want to vote twice, are dead or illegal.
These voter purgers are da*n serious and a legitimate threat to our democracy.
State issued id – $$
Transportation to state office – $$
Birth certificate – $$ but not everyone has one.
Transportation – $$
Those who are elderly or disabled may need someone to go with them. Most can get a volunteer, others cannot – $$$
Just a devious way to require a poll tax of those least able to pay.
The problems identified in the video are due to deliberate intentions to deceive. Even so, better training of poll workers is called for.
SM, you have posted the answer by the guy with the checklist. A deliberate movement to skew the vote.
Voter ID laws could swing states
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/79103.html
Excerpt:
At least 5 million voters, predominantly young and from minority groups sympathetic to President Barack Obama, could be affected by an unprecedented flurry of new legislation by Republican governors and GOP-led legislatures to change or restrict voting rights by Election Day 2012.
Supporters of these new laws — spearheaded in six swing states, as well as other less competitive ones — argue they are just trying to stop voter fraud and protect the integrity of the vote. But opponents, mainly Democrats and Obama’s campaign, which is closely monitoring the daily warfare over the new laws, believe they are trying to change the face of the electorate in a way that benefits the Republican candidate for president.
Bron
1, August 5, 2012 at 7:55 pm
I would think democrats would want to make sure republicans are only voting once. You know how we like to steal elections.
Republicans like to steal elections by suppressing voter turnout, especially in groups that tend to skew Democratic, and try to justify it by telling lies to fearmonger about Democrats stealing elections via non-existant voter fraud. Why, exactly, should Democrats want to help them?
make the voting polls take a picture id the day you vote.
Bron, you just don’t get it. The DMV has no intention of changing the way they do things. The whole idea is to make it harder to get an ID, not easier. If we asked the DMV manager anything, she would point to the gadget where you take a number–it looks like one of those things where you get a ticket at the entrance to parking lots. When you get a number it is entered into the computer and you get to the “next available” window when, and only when, the computer calls out your number over the loudspeaker.
They don’t want to make it easier to get an official ID, not easier. What is so hard to understand about that. The only real voter fraud is the industrial strength voter suppression effort by the Republican party in those places where they are in power.
Swarthmore,
The 93 year old women is a great example of exactly who these laws are designed to stop.
@Elaine – One small problem with your source’s timeline. The Republican Party wasn’t founded until 1854. The Democratic Party was the dominant party for 20+ years before that. I guess that’s who the GOP learned their dirty tricks from
Speaking of parties, does anyone want to discuss actual voter intimidation by the New Black Panther Party in PA?
” … they are trying to change the face of the electorate in a way that benefits the Republican candidate for president.” (from Elaine’s link)
It’s Welfare for Willard Fraud
Wm. Robert Wall aka: junctionshamus,
We discussed that … see Turley’s posting Aug 1 … Federal Court Rules Against Obama Administration in Black Panther FOIA Case
If you want to go further into it, I’d be happy to oblige.
Man! I get tired of this crap. Why is everything related to race, hence the politically correct term, (certain demographics). I am sure that all races and ages would be affected having to show ID to vote. If you can’t get an ID then you should be ineligible for everything else too, not just voting. You need ID for Medicare, Hospital admission,
various purchases, loans, cashing checks. What is the issue. Get over it.
DMV’s are NOT easy to get to. I don’t drive and I had to get the Maryland ID whether I wanted to or not. I was not allowed to open a bank account without the MD ID. There was only one MD DMV on the bus routes and the lines were so long, any one who worked could not get enough time off to stand in line to get one. I finally had to ask a friend to take me to a DMV during lunch (which we couldn’t do during our lunchtime). It took longer than an hour. Such requirements for ID are ridiculous for voting. At that time, I worked for the Federal Government and had picture ID, which proved I was employed and should be the important part for opening a bank account. Yet, that wasn’t good enough. Since then, I retired to my home town and had to go through the ID thing again. And, again, the DMV’s were pretty much impossible to get to without a car (which I still don’t have). Not everybody in the whole world has a driver’s license. Not every body in the whole world should have a driver’s license. Also, driver’s licenses or the state ID do cost money. Thus, it is a poll tax. Unless voting ID is made easily accessible and free, it should be illegal to make such a requirement.
How about setting the ground work so there will be less voter fraud IN THE FUTURE?
Many other aspects in American life requires presentation of valid ID to continue. Why not something as basic to our system of government as validating who you are in order to vote?
Some examples of ordinary transactions
1) Buy booze or smokes if appearing under 25
2) checking into a hospital.
3) cashing a check
4) Using a credit card
5) setting up an account for electricity / gas / utilities
6) Obtaining a bank account
7) Identifying yourself to a LEO on a traffic stop
8) Crossing an international border
9) Pawning property
10) Withdrawing cash from a bank
11) Registering for a hotel room
OK so give me a specific example of why you believe that presenting a form of identification in 1-11 is A BAD PRACTICE and should be eliminated because it might disenfranchise others. What do you think would happen on a large scale. Fraud is what would happen. Don’t delude yourselves into believing it would not.
So why should something so basic to our country be just brushed aside. For those who feel it could never happen here? That is voter fraud. Well, you might want to do your own research but it has been a problem in areas in the past. It regularly happens in other countries presently.
This is a different issue than Gerrymandering, making it more difficult for others to vote, namely soldiers. I also would remind people not to just attack one political party and declare they are the only ones who manipulate the vote. Look at history, you will be educated that this is not the case. It would be a better statement to say nearly all major political parties have had members who have manipulated the vote.
I would say it would be a healthy debate to question every motive of any group that attempts a change in voting practices or laws.
Pat,
You are ignoring the data that was presented in the article, including the Brennan Center report noted in the Additional sources mention.
Darren,
Once again, there is no appreciable voter fraud now so all of what you suggest is unnecessary and irrelevant. Unless of course you do not believe what the State of Pennslyvania admitted to? By the way, I do not need a picture ID from the State to use my credit card, to check into a hospital, withdrawing money from a bank(most of the time) and registering for a room. I have never Pawned anything (yet) so I do not know if you are correct there. I do have to show my drivers license to a LEO and my passport or drivers license to cross some borders. As mentioned by one of the commenters, these ALEC designed voter ID laws are designed to make it difficult to obtain the necessary ID’s as highlighted by Texas closing offices in entire counties.
people in assisted living facilities and nursing homes don’t drive, aren’t likely to be id’ed for alcohol purchases, have banking accounts that may have been open years ago. the dmv does not allow ss cards, discharge papers, or old drivers, fishing or hunting licenses to be used for new id. if the person is in their mid 80′s they haven’t had to prove who they are to ss for 20+ years. now before the november election they are expected to find old proof of birth (birth certificate or affidavits of persons attending their birth).
and all this after being able to vote in every election since ww2
(we thank you for your service)
After reading some of the responses here, including Pat’s, I have come to the conclusion that if one wants to vote republican, they must first prove beyond a reasonable doubt they are sentient beings. I am in favor of a full psychological competency exam to rule out non compos mentis before they are allowed to vote. Let’s add driving, opening a bank account and being allowed out of their homes without being accompanied by their mommies.
To tell you the truth I would not be able to vote because I do NOT
have “valid” State Issued Identification”. I have an expired Drivers License. It seems not be a considered a “valid identification”. Unless of course the police find this “Invalid Identification” in my pocket. Then, by some mystical legal non-process… I am the person pictured on the card. It is not good for anything else. How many plates open accounts (pick one) on expired drivers license? Can I fill out a w4? nope. I’m not recognizable as that person anymore because some arbitrary clock went off.
The funny thing is I can’t get an ID because of excise taxes that were levied against a car that was “not within in the State” and TOTALED. The insurance company hired a sub that “lost” the plates.
Massachusetts will not let you get an ID with outstanding excise. I AM NOT GOING TO PAY A USE TAX FOR AN UNUSABLE OBJECT OUTSIDE THE TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION OF THE STATE.State.
The net real world result if I was in an n ID required State is this.
I would no be able to vote because the State will not recognize an expired Drivers License for the purposes of anything but law enforcement.
An insurance company basically disenfranchises me via it’s negligence that caused an excise levy.
The excise tax would bar me from an purchasing Identification without paying the extortion fee to vote.
The State has become a useless bunch of machine code. Government officials have become braindead CPU’s that just “execute the program”. T
Darren,
1) Buy booze or smokes if appearing under 25 – don’t buy booze or smokes
2) checking into a hospital. – not required
3) cashing a check – direct deposit or mailed to long established account
4) Using a credit card – not required
5) setting up an account for electricity / gas / utilities – not required
6) Obtaining a bank account – done long ago, don’t remember being asked.
7) Identifying yourself to a LEO on a traffic stop – not if I don’t drive
8) Crossing an international border – not if I don’t travel
9) Pawning property – ???
10) Withdrawing cash from a bank – not required
11) Registering for a hotel room – only the person doing the registering.
Darren, you must look awful sneaky to have all these folks wanting to see your id. : )
Well said Pete.
Half the dogs in the dogpack would vote RepubliCon if they could. Those are the one’s without webbed feet and cant swim– no name no blame here. One fourth say they like Ron Paul. The labradors and other swimmers like Obama. All have dog tags and papers. The DogWOP program took care of that. Yet they can not vote. Four legs good, two legs baaaaad!
That last campaign slogan is from Animal Planet. Or is it Animal House?
Orwell. If you have a dog in your household or like dogs then you should vote in their interest. Like vote to outlaw the organizations which tweety little names like Humane Society that round up dogs and kill them. There is some schmuck on Television in one ad after another who is running from something, or for something, named Willard, who put his dog in a crate tied to the roof of his car and drove it for a thousand miles or so. They call the dog DeafDog now. The answer was blowing in the wind. This Willard guy went to prep school on daddy’s stolen dime and made fun of a gay guy and teased him with the name “Atta Girl”. He wants you to vote for him and he favors all these show me your papers voter ID laws but he wont show you his papers regarding whether or not he paid income taxes. He has a hairdo like The Donald. They both hail from up in the Northeast Quadrant where people talk funny and think that St. Louis is in Michigan and Texas is next to California. So, That is The Ticket: The Willard and The Donald. Coming to a theatre near you.
The voter ID propaganda is an obvious ploy to allow the republican party to lie, cheat, and steal to gain more power.
ALEC may have written the script and talking points.
It looks like a mobster tactic.
BarkingDog,
I always liked the Labrador retrievers best.
Otteray Scribe:
No I guess I dont get it, why do we have all of these laws to help people with disabilities and they still have to suffer at the DMV? It seems to me a reasonable accommodation to let a person in a wheelchair go to the head of the line.
What most of the comments seem to indicate is that the elderly, the poor, the handicapped are victims without the ability to reason or function. How do they ever find their way to the polling place?
Bron,
your comment is uncalled for. The poor and and the elderly and the handicapped are just as capable of functioning as the rest of us if given the opportunity. However, when laws are designed to push them out of the polling place or make it more difficult, that is the real crime. If the Right is so willing to share its views and welcome all into their fold, why are they trying so hard to limit the vote? What are they afraid of?
Why Does Mitt Romney Want To Restrict Voting Rights For More Than 900,000 Ohio Veterans?
By Jon Soltz, a two-tour Iraq veteran and Chairman of VoteVets.org
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/06/641891/why-does-mitt-romney-want-to-restrict-voting-rights-for-more-than-900000-ohio-veterans/
Excerpt:
When I read stories this weekend that said the Obama campaign was suing to restrict the voting rights of military in Ohio, my blood got boiling. Of course, Think Progress has already documented that story, inflamed by the Romney campaign, is patently false. In fact, the Obama campaign was suing to block an Ohio law which restricts a very successful early voting program in the state. The President’s campaign was trying to keep expanded voting rights in place for everyone, military included. So, why am I still so disturbed?
Because Mitt Romney, by supporting the Ohio law that would do away with three days of early voting for all but those covered under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voter Act (‘UOCAVA’), is supporting the restriction of voting rights for as many as 913,000 Ohio veterans. This includes military retirees with over 20 years of service and multiple deployments. In short, Mitt Romney supports efforts to make voting more difficult for the very people who have put their lives on the line after swearing an oath to uphold our Constitution and democracy.
Once you leave the military, you are no longer covered by UOCAVA. Your voting rights are the same as any civilian. That means the early voting law which Mitt Romney wants to undo, provided hundreds of thousands of Ohio veterans with more of an opportunity to vote. By all accounts, Ohio voters liked and used the early voting law. In 2008, nearly one-third of all ballots was cast under the early voting measures, surely many of them veterans.
Romney Smears Obama, Falsely Claims He Filed Lawsuit To Restrict Military Voting In Ohio
By Judd Legum on Aug 4, 2012
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/04/640491/romney-smears-obama-falsely-claims-he-filed-lawsuit-to-restrict-military-voting-in-ohio/
Excerpt:
Today on Facebook, Mitt Romney claims that the Obama campaign is trying to “undermine” the ability of members of the military to vote in Ohio:
President Obama’s lawsuit claiming it is unconstitutional for Ohio to allow servicemen and women extended early voting privileges during the state’s early voting period is an outrage. The brave men and women of our military make tremendous sacrifices to protect and defend our freedoms, and we should do everything we can to protect their fundamental right to vote. I stand with the fifteen military groups that are defending the rights of military voters, and if I’m entrusted to be the commander-in-chief, I’ll work to protect the voting rights of our military, not undermine them.
This certainly sounds outrageous, but it is not true. Since 2005, Ohio has had in person early-voting in the three days prior to the election. This year, however, the Republican legislature in Ohio eliminated early voting during this period, except for members of the military. The Obama lawsuit is attempting to restore voting rights for all Ohioans, not restrict them for the military or any other group. From the Obama lawsuit, filed in federal court:
Plaintiffs bring this lawsuit to restore in-person early voting for all Ohioans during the three days prior to Election Day – a right exercised by an estimated 93,000 Ohioans in the last presidential election. Ohio election law, as currently enacted by the State of Ohio and administered by Defendant Ohio Secretary of State, arbitrarily eliminates early voting during the three days prior to Election Day for most Ohio voters, a right previously available to all Ohio voters.
Great link Elaine. Mitt has no chance unless he can restrict enough voters to give him the edge. Sounds like a good business practice.
I find it a ludicrous concept that somebody intent upon committing voter fraud could not figure out how to fake a passable photo ID card. Teenagers do it with scanners, color printers, and laminate available at any office supply store. When they get caught, the usual reason is because they look or act too young to be the age they are trying to fake. A vote fraud wouldn’t have to fake an age.
I think it is silly to think a photo-ID would stop any fraud; thus the more plausible explanation is that the intent is to stop people that do not have photo-IDs, and that demographic is disproportionately composed of those that benefit from a robust social safety net, and the young and city dwellers that have concluded a robust social safety net is a good idea.
rafflaw:
since I have multiple ID’s and a voter ID card, I do not understand the problem.
What I keep seeing posted here is that the republicans are preventing people from voting by requiring a voter id card, I dont think it is a big deal to get a voter id card.
I just looked for DMV’s in Baltimore, MD, there are not very many but they are within walking distance of the bus line run by the Maryland Transit Administration. It takes 35 minutes to get to the MVA from N. Monroe St. about 20 minutes of it are walking. Which would preclude some elderly and some handicapped people. The cost is minimal. So OK you do have a point. But the solution is to provide a couple of locations within the city which dispenses voter ID’s. If the republicans are against that then you are correct, they are trying to suppress the vote.
Or have community groups like Acorn provide transportation to area DMV’s on certain days for the next 3 months to get everyone an ID. I am sure there would be private money available to pay for that.
Another option is to open the polling places on 4-6 consecutive weekends and provide people with voter id’s, have republicans and democrats watching so that there are no shenanigans. It seems like this is a simple thing to address.
In my opinion if you dont want to spend a few hours getting an id so you can vote, maybe you really dont care enough so why should I bother helping you?
Bron, You need to keep up. Acorn was put out of business by faked videos and an attack by Republicans in congress. You’re an excellent example of privilege doesn’t recognize privilege.
Bron,
it seems obvious from your claims of not understanding the problem of these voter ID laws that you are in favor of making people who are currently legally able to vote drive hours, in the case of Texas, just to get the card. Some states try to charge for the ID and in some cases the ID process is purposely burdensome to anyone who goes through it. It is no longer just a process of going to your neighborhood Sec. of State office in many cases. Why “fix” something that isn’t broken. The right is not even hiding the fact that these voter purges and Voter ID laws are designed to curtail legal voters from being able to cast votes against Republican candidates. Tell your friends on the Right in Pennslyvania, Texas and many others to open up more offices and do not restrict the hours of early voting.
I have had 7 surgeries in the past two years and each time, I have had to show my ID at the hospital where I was getting the procedure done at.
And here in Indiana, the BMV will give you a FREE State ID around voting time so folks can vote. Also, both the Democrat and Republican committees will give you are ride to the BMV for FREE. And to voting polls as well. And the Citilink bus will take you there for FREE as well.
Sally, good for you and your community. BTW, you left a “tell.” It is Democratic, not Democrat.
Now, how about our semi rural area where there is no public transportation, and some people only come in to town once or twice a month to get staples at the grocery and hardware store? The average wait time at the single DMV office in the county runs between one and two hours on an average day. I know this because I am next door to the DMV. Our situation here is the rule and not the exception across much of the country with the exception of affluent (make that mostly Republican) suburbs.
rafflaw:
I dont have any friends in the republican party, they think I am too liberal.
Otteray Scribe:
I am not sure an hour wait or even a 2 hour wait is a big deal. In the mall where our DMV is located, I have waited that long on numerous occasions.
Otteray Scribe
1, August 6, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Sally, good for you and your community. BTW, you left a “tell.” It is Democratic, not Democrat.
Nice catch!
I’m going to blame my child, who was sitting on my lap while I typed on my phone for the Democratic error
I actually live in a rural area, I am 15 miles from town. Our BMV does not have 1-2 hr wait times, it is not as busy as the ones in the bigger cities. And you can still get free rides to the rural BMV’S for these ID’s.
They will have two employees working to only do State ID’s. It takes about 15 min per person. I think the program runs for a week prior to voting. And you can renew it online before it expires too.
Bron
1, August 6, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Otteray Scribe:
I am not sure an hour wait or even a 2 hour wait is a big deal. In the mall where our DMV is located, I have waited that long on numerous occasions.
Seeing as how you have your own business, I’m guessing that you didn’t have any problem getting your boss to let you off or a problem making up lost wages–an additional “poll tax”–and remember that a 2 hour wait probably means at least a half day off work (an entire day if there is any significant travel time). I thought you believed in the rights of individuals–don’t you think that the right to vote is one of the most important of those, or do you only extend it to those who will vote like you do?
Bron, you can tie yourself into all the logical knots you want. The issue still is the fact the real voter fraud is the caging and outright voter suppression being conducted systematically and deliberately by the Republican party everywhere they have the power to do so.
What is wrong, for example, with an expired photo ID? My daughter will never drive again, but she has her driver’s license with her current address and photo on it. So what if it expired a year or two ago? My granddaughter will be able to vote for the first time—maybe. She does not have a driver’s license and her permit has expired. She does have a valid passport, but the election people want a State issue ID in order to let her vote. She and my daughter are both progressives who are far more likely to vote Democratic than Republican. That does not pass the smell test.
SLARTI:
there were plenty of people who did laboring jobs in the line ahead of me, so they did not have a hard time either.
Bron,
The question is not how many people were able to be there–the question is how many people weren’t able to be there. Something you couldn’t possibly know, therefore your assertion is fallacious. Do you think that people should be deprived of their rights based on fallacious reasoning?
Slarti, he also neglected to observe the working people there may have been giving up two or three hours–or more–of wages for being there–not to mention that some supervisor might give them a hard time for taking off work when they got back.
OS,
I wonder if it was hard work not to see all of that… but Bron has always been good at ignoring the logical consequences of his arguments. According to him, I’ve got the right to put arsenic in his water supply.
Turley – It’s mostly the people who want to improve the integrity and reliability of the electoral process that benefit from voter ID laws. The candidates who have organizations in place to manipulate election outcomes with fraud are squealing the loudest. Right now, “O” has filed suit over Ohio’s early voting accommodation to the military. The Dems tried unsuccessfully to suppress the abscentee votes for 1500 members of the military in the 2000 Florida general election. Now comes confirmed reports that the White House instructed Erik Holder to stand down in the case of voter intimidation by members of the New Black Panthers. All eligible voters are guaranteed the right to vote. As with most worthwhile endeavors, voting may take some effort; otherwise ineligible candidates might get elected by ineligible voters such as: cats, dogs, convicted felons, dead people and illegal aliens.
Slarti:
you dont know how many people didnt show up, nor do you know how many could not come due to work restrictions. My observation is no more or less fallacious than yours.
Going to the doctor, staying home with a sick child, getting a drivers license, going to the bank, appearing in court are things we all have to do. That is how life works unless you are Donald Trump.
As far as arsenic in the water, it is already there in many areas of the country and is naturally occurring. But no, I do not think I have a right to pollute your well. If I do I should be punished.
Bron,
Oh, so I guess it’s just corporations that you feel have the right to pollute your natural resources.
I didn’t make any sort of statement about the size of any group—I merely pointed out that you relayed an observation about one group and used it to make a statement about the size of another group, which was fallacious reasoning.
If the comments here are typical of average Americans, it’s easy to foresee
how right-wingers will be able to sell flat taxes, no estate taxes (aka help support an even larger class of aristocrats than we already have), an endless war economy, and all the rest
I’m appalled, and fully expect to be subjected to derision (even by self-righteous, self-described liberals). here.
sLARTI:
If there are a couple of hundred people at the DMV who looked like they were tradesmen, I think I can make some conclusions about their ability to take off work to get a drivers license. I might be wrong but it certainly isnt fallacious reasoning.
I suppose when I go to a county fair and see a bunch of children with cotton candy I cannot come to any conclusions either?
Michael J. Marsalek,
Prof. Turley did not write this article. You do need to read a little more about theOhio lawsuit. Your talking points are not accurate.
Bron,
It is fine to come to conclusions about the children you see with cotton candy on the basis of your observations, but observations regarding the children you don’t see (i.e. why they are not at the fair with cotton candy) have no basis.
bRON,
yOU SHOULD ALSO BE MORE CAREFUL WITH YOUR shift KEY…
Virginia election officials decided Monday to not take action against a D.C. group that sent voter registration cards to dead people, children and pets and prompted calls for an investigation from Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
The Virginia Board of Elections said it was already working with the Voter Participation Center to improve the group’s registration practices so ineligible voters would not be targeted in the future.
Romney’s campaign recently called for an investigation of the group, which targeted minorities and young voters when it sent out 200,000 registration cards. The campaign said it was satisfied with the board’s decision.
“The Voter Participation Center has already admitted its misconduct, and we are glad that the State Board of Elections quickly convened a meeting on the issue,” said Romney spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg. “Even in the absence of a formal investigation, we are heartened that the group is being forced to stop mailing misleading, [partially completed] voter registration forms in Virginia.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/va.-wont-further-probe-charges-of-illegal-voter-registration/article/2504120
Just curious what happened to the we are the 99%, another farce.
“Unless voting ID is made easily accessible and free, it should be illegal to make such a requirement.” (Bonnie)
The simple truth of that statement stands without the need of any crutch.
Bonnie
Right.
I looked at the 2000 election as a back door coup and the 2004 election as theft. That the current Republican campaign is simply all lies is maddening to me but not out of the main for our political system in my lifetime. I am though very concerned that the wholesale voter suppression and disenfranchisement has every possibility of becoming some variation of self-coup to deliver the country into the hands of a party that wins primarily due to corrupt practices, not necessarily illegal, but corrupt and anathema to democratic principles. I see this as imminently possible.
Would provisional balloting be an acceptable accommodation?
lottakatz -
Nixxon ’68
Reagan ’80
GW Jetson 2000
GW Jetson 2004
Romney 2012
As Lyndon said: “Let us continyuh”.
Bill, You may be right but I have a different take on Nixon, there were strong and corrupt machines on both sides and I always figured that it was a matter of corrupt machines delivering votes: Kennedy got Chicago/Illinois and Nixon got Texas. LOL, I just put those contests down to old-school business as usual. Those were years when minority voting was marginalized(actually legally suppressed as the norm in ’60 and still a battleground in ’68) and elections were won on the back of corrupt, big city machines and practices. Those elections were ‘stolen’ the traditional way!
I think we have moved into new and frightening territory. HAVA is still flying under the radar. It’s a strange new world of electoral politics. Refresh my memory on Reagan, I’m fuzzy on that.
“It seems that almost everywhere you look, some State is trying to reduce the number of early voting days, purging the voting rolls and making it harder for citizens to cast their votes.”
The point is to make it harder for VOTER FRAUD – i.e. dead people voting, people in prison voting, family pets voting, people voting in multiple districts, etc… Not just “citizens casting votes”.
“The State of Florida has recently attempted to remove legitimate voters off its voter rolls and the State of Georgia recently attempted to restrict the time when a military absentee ballot can be counted as I wrote about earlier on this blog.”
Military absentee ballots – hmmm… he democrats are notorious for throwing out the military votes as we witnessed in past elections. Their logic is that the military tend to vote strongly for the Republican, so the fewer military votes counted, the less votes counted for the Republican.
“Georgia Now, we have some hard evidence of just who is getting removed or impacted by the various State’s attempts to cure the imagined Voter fraud problem!”
Imagined voter fraud problem??? What rock has this person been living under? We’ve seen clear voter fraud with Obama, but of course no one will dare pursue it because they will be labeled (shudder) a racist!
“Just Who Gains From Voter ID Laws?”
Everyone would gain from having a legitimate election without voter fraud.
Slarti:
“but observations regarding the children you don’t see (i.e. why they are not at the fair with cotton candy) have no basis.”
sure, their parents are dicks for not taking them to the fair.
Bron, you have lost the argument today. You want to inconvenience people to the point of being unable to vote all because you claim “not to understand the problem.” Bron, you lost the argument because there are no actual cases of voter fraud. And Bron, it does not matter what you “understand.” Millions of people are affected by these laws. Why couldn’t they be made to go into effect the day AFTER the election? That would give supporters a lot of time to help those who need it, and would eliminate the obvious politics of it. If you cannot see this is politically motivated, then you belong to the Grumpy Old Confused set you so openly deride.
Bron, who has this mystical fantasy that DMV managers give a crap about people waiting, wheelchairs or no, please come to California. You would have your eyes opened on more than one front.
Luckily, when those of Bron’s vintage expire, they are not being replaced in sufficient numbers.
Take your hands off my vote.
Barney,
please provide us the evidence of voter fraud that you are claiming? The State of Pennslyvania couldn’t find it even though they produced a law to combat it. Back up your claim.
Well said James.
Barney Collier said, “Everyone would gain from having a legitimate election without voter fraud.”
What past elections have all the voter fraud that requires taking millions of otherwise legitimate voters off the books? The answer: none.
I hope your fainting couch is paid up.
Farce, do you understand the difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud?
Actual voter fraud is very difficult because of having to show up in person. You would need posses numbering in the thousands all working closely together to vote numerous times at numerous locations. The reason it has never happened is because it’s nearly impossible to pull off, even in our connected age. It would leave too many footprints. Human nature would need to brag about it. You have to be able to move a mountain of votes to have any impact, and even then, good luck.
You have not made the case for eliminating millions of otherwise eligible voters.
James in LA:
I dont plan on expiring any time soon. Sorry to disappoint.
If the argument is on the principle that voter ID laws will lead to other pre-emptive measures to keep people who typically vote Democrat from voting I wholly understand but don’t agree. The ACLU and the League of Women voters by all means should sue states for voting laws like Florida that will purge the voter rolls of eligible voters. Voting rights and civil rights groups by all means should sue states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Ohio for voting laws that limit the number of days of early voting, squeeze the time between a registration drive and when those documents should be turned in, decrease the number of precincts in heavily populated areas, and make votes by mail from members of the military or any other count less than a standard vote. Those fights should be fought in court every day until November 6, 2012 and after. The fight on simply showing ID is a losing game.
http://changecomesslow.com/2012/08/07/voter-id-laws-whats-the-problem/
james in la:
I am curious as to why you think having a photo id to vote is such a big deal?
I bet you have to have some sort of ID for welfare and I imagine people on welfare figure that out and make it happen.
supposedly there are between 20 and 30 million illegal immigrants in this country mostly from central and south America. Hispanics tend to vote for democrats, I imagine if they voted for republicans voter ID laws would already be in place and enforced.
Begging everyone’s pardon in advance…
Bron is a blockhead and it is futile to indulge in any dialog with him.
I note that Barney Collier has failed to cite a single reference for any of his rather broad allegations. That’s because there are none.
Bron, you expose yourself with your inability to resist the temptation to cite “them illegals” as justification for removing millions of otherwise eligible voters from the books. You further cement your fate with your argument with the failed false equivalency between the right to vote, and the hundred other things for which ID is often (but not always) required. To twist the knife, you have to pick on welfare recipients, even to the extent you have to suggest I am one myself. You aren’t very good at this, are you?
Curious: Blockhead, indeed.
Mike A.,
I think you are correct.
Barney,
As I said earlier, back up your claims.
James in La:
I was using welfare as a general example, I was not implying you were on welfare.
If you are do you need a valid ID or not? There is welfare fraud so maybe you dont need a valid ID.
Reblogged this on Mary Cosmo.
It is difficult to mount a good defense for the morally indefensible.
here is org. which will help you get a voter ID card:
http://www.truethevote.org/voterid/
Rickad
1, August 7, 2012 at 4:31 pm
It is difficult to mount a good defense for the morally indefensible.
I thought “It’s okay if you are a Republican” was our highest moral law…
Bron,
How about this: we institute ID cards for people who apply for welfare and require them to vote. Anyone can get one, they just have to go down to the appropriate office, wait their turn and go through the process of registering to see what benefits they are eligible for. Sure, rich people don’t need the benefits and wont qualify for them anyway, but it isn’t a big deal to ask them to do this in order to vote, right?
“Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted — not just accused, but convicted — of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. “The numbers aren’t greater,” the authors say, “because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and ‘knowingly’ voted unlawfully.” The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/york-when-1099-felons-vote-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163
Slarti:
If you want to make rich people get a state voter ID card and sit in line at some government office, I am all for it. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
I am not rich but I wouldnt complain about it.
Bron,
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that such a plan was implemented (in Pennsylvania) and, due to the annoyance, resulted in a large group of people not voting who otherwise would have. Further, let’s assume that this group skewed enough toward the Republicans that it was sufficient to tip the state to President Obama and Pennsylvania was the difference in the electoral college (he would not have had 270 without it). Would you still feel the same way?
Besides, don’t you think it is unAmerican to disenfranchise any eligible voters in order to stop what seems to be a statistically insignificant problem? Would you give up your vote to fight this sort of fraud? I’m sorry, but attempting to fix a problem that is extraordinarily unlikely to swing an election, if it is even occurring in significant numbers at all, by a method which is nearly certain to impact the election in a way favoring your side is clearly unethical, even if you choose to blind yourself to it.
I went to vote in our state primary today and got a surprise; we now have the option in my precinct of using touch-screen or opti-scan machines. I chose opti-scan but there were several people at the touch screen bank of machines! Touch screens are the absolutely worst choice because if there is a close and contested race there is no way to do a full recount with touch screen machines.
Full recounts are not always done, just a resolution of voters and gross totals (bad idea) but that is the only possible kind of a recount available in reality with touch-screens because if it registers bad data it can only be examined for what it recorded- it’s entirely a self check- there is no way to determine if the data it recorded is bad.
Some retired lady should make a sign warning people to not use the touch-screen system and stand outside the polling place come November. That probably should be done in every precinct that provides a choice.
SwM and lotta,
Just got back from poll duty where things went smoothly. As you know I have always been active in the League of Women Voters (past president, etc) and I’m pleased to say that the law suit we filed after the terrible problems experienced here in Ohio in 2004 and which was settled in 2009 has brought about some much needed changes.
There is still much to be done but we remain ever vigilant and active.
Hey Slarti!
Hey Blouise!
They asked for my driver’s license when I voted today, but when I asked them about it they said that it wasn’t necessary (but it was convenient—they were trying out a new computerized registration database and had a card swipe for DL or Michigan ID). Not a very exciting election, although I did get to vote for a tax levy for an animal shelter and I voted for the guy who runs the party store down the street for township trustee (he’s already on the November ballot)—I figure that a candidate I have access to is better than a candidate I don’t know—every plan for world domination has to start somewhere…
^..^ * many,
Opti-scan only at my polling place.
you will be pleased to know the current administration has required states to offer voter registration to welfare recipients at welfare offices and has filed suits against a number of states it feels is not compliant.
Slarti,
Party stores should be in every world domination plan!
Lord, I’m tired … long day.
Blouise,
“But the man at the liquor store, he knew“—Roger Rabbit
An unqualified endorsement if I ever saw one
Blouise, put your feet up and have a rest, you earned it. If I weren’t an atheist I’d say ‘God bless the League of Women Voters’.
Slarti, Good on you for voting and having a plan for world domination. I got to vote against one of those ‘freedom of religion & prayer-in-school’ initiatives. Humbug! The better half just put on some Johnny Cash and we’re sliding into ‘The Man Comes Around’, a good voting day song if you think of voting day as Judgment Day.
I would like to echo lotta’s blessing of the League of Women voters! Great group.
Anyone may join the LWV. If there isn’t a local chapter then join the state chapter.
LWV is strictly non-partisan and never endorses candidates but does make recommendations on issues after in-depth studies.
If you want to meet people from all walks of life and all political persuasions who are able to come together and work towards positive goals, the LWV is a great vehicle.
“The League of Women Voters of the United States is a nonpartisan political membership organization, which:
acts after study and member agreement to achieve solutions in the public interest on key community issues at all government levels.
builds citizen participation in the democratic process.
engages communities in promoting positive solutions to public policy issues through education and advocacy.”
http://www.lwv.org/content/lwvus-lwvef-mission-statement-and-core-values
Making Democracy Work
slarti:
yes because if you dont care enough to give up a day or a couple of hours for your duty as a citizen, you should pay the price.
Bron,
The problem is that there is an inequity in what you are asking people to give up. For you (and many others) such a price (a day away from work) wouldn’t affect you beyond the time you actually spent and possibly a minor financial hit while for others it could easily mean less food on the table for their kids, less security at work (by pissing off the boss), or even lead to loss of a job altogether. Either you are too naive to understand that these laws are being enacted for a purely partisan political purpose (nice alliteration, eh?), or you feel it is okay to disenfranchise people if it helps your side—which is it?
” … purely partisan political purpose (nice alliteration, eh?)” (Slarti)
alliteration always alleviates anxiety
Well said Slarts!
Thanks raff–and I didn’t use no stinkin’ maffs, either!
Blouise,
I innocently intimated invalidating imitation incidentally incurring inconvenient ire.
Slarti:
I dont think it is a case of either or as you suggest. People take time off for all kinds of stupid stuff and with dumber reasons than to go register to vote and get an ID and they dont get fired. There are always slow times at work and most bosses arent going to get a case of the arse if you take off a couple of hours early one day to go and register to vote.
I think you are succumbing to the Simon Legree school of anti-capitalist thought that effects so many on the left.
As a small businessman [very small] myself, I get to hear and see behind the curtain, being one of them. I can tell you the ones I know, most are not paying themselves salaries right now and are doing their best to keep their people working. They would no more fire an employee for registering to vote than fly to the moon.
Now if you are talking big corporations, many of which are fascist in nature, then I will agree. Small businessmen for the most part are not going to fire a person for leaving early one day of the year to register to vote.
If you and other liberals are so upset about it, start a fund and reimburse people for their lost wages for 1/2 a day. We are probably talking about $75 per person and 50 million people, that is pocket change for George Soros. $27 billion or so. I would even pay a yearly tax to cover the lost time and so would most other people who think a voter ID is the way to go.
Problem solved.
Slarti’s slippery slope serpentines southward subtly smashing straitlaced stinkers.
or
Kevin Kessler keeps the ketchup in the kitchen.
Your choice AND you can only use the name “Blouise”!!
Bron,
I have a better idea. Stop removing legal voters from the rolls and stop making it more difficult and more expensive to vote. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.
Blouise, I knew the Presidential debates were no more than propaganda and entertainment in ’88 when LWV refused to sponsor the debate that year. I haven’t taken them seriously or watched them since then. I was one of those people that thought that LWV didn’t generally ask questions that were ‘hard’ enough (mainly that there wasn’t enough follow-up when an intriguing answer was forthcoming) but as a structured forum was done well and was informative. Now? The debates are controlled by the parties through a commission, yea, I’m going to have faith that the debates are disinterested and informative or even minimally fair. Right.
I had to look up the following statement to post it but I recall that when I first read it my reaction was that my real life had enough farce in it- I didn’t need to watch more of it from politicians.
The statement that the League put out says it all and is darned impressive:
“The League of Women Voters is withdrawing sponsorship of the presidential debates…because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter. It has become clear to us that the candidates’ organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and answers to tough questions. The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public.”
Blouise’s banal bon-mot better be by (the) book, betimes being backpatting. Bron better beware building baseless branches buys boding bedlam, boring besides.
Elementary erroneous element elimination erodes enhancement: KessEler
Don’t you kids make me get out of this chair.
Gene… grumpy gents get goat got.
lotta,
I remember that and haven’t thought about it for years. There was a hotly debated phrase, “rise above your handlers” that was included.
It really was unprecedented for the two parties to get together like that and demand concessions from the League that they knew would never be accepted. The League went for substance but Bush and Dukakis only wanted show.
Do you remember Bernard Shaw, the moderator of the debate, asking Dukakis, “Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?”
Can you imagine the League ever allowing such a question that injects a purely irrelevant emotional element into the discussion of a policy issue?
So who ran the debates then and since? Well, the Commission on Presidential Debates and if anybody wants to read about that sterling group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Presidential_Debates
I need a drink!
bLouise languishes last, losing leadership laurel. Lottakatz laments league’s lambasting lesser luminaries.
Alliteration aplenty; always an amusement.
Gene jumps and jiggles jarring jovial jousters just joining in jest.
or one of my diction exercises which I looked up so that I could copy and paste rather than type.
Theophilus Thistle, the successful thistle sifter, in sifting a sieve full of un-sifted thistles, thrust three thousand thistles through the thick of his thumb.
jeez, first math now this
prickly pete pines phor purity
“phor”? Brilliant! Srsly.
(Great set-up Pete- you also live to serve, bless your heart.)
LOL, I was lucky enough to find a picture of the last thing Pete saw when he looked up after hearing a rustling in the bushes behind him:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B4LrYEO3f1c/T4NYhcto7yI/AAAAAAAAFaM/TTzebCk4_vo/s1600/shadow+foot.jpg
lotta,
lol … great pic
Is there on-line scrabble? It’d be fun to get together and have a few games.
When raff checks in I’m afeared he won’t be too happy with what we’ve done to his thread.
Perhaps it is time to put on a cloak.
There is on line scrabble on facebook, Blouise. I play a lot but it currently is not loading.
Swarthmore mom,
If you mean Words With Friends, I play, too. Friend me on Facebook and challenge me if you’d like a game… (goes for anyone else, too)
Oops, gotta go, my brother George just played a word…
Blouise,
Mathless, small is good!
Small should be “so all” is good!
Slarti, I just sent the request but I actually play Scrabble.
Swarthmore mom,
Yeah, I’m downloading Scrabble on my phone right now (as you will note if you check your messages on Facebook
)
Slarti, The game has been down most of the day.
Swarthmore mom,
That’s okay, I’ll figure it out and challenge you to a game (or you can challenge me) in the next couple of days.
Can’t I get in on it without having to use facebook ? I stay away from facebook.
raff,
Whew … we did talk about the League for a while and Gene did attempt to restore order. I guess we’re just those guests who refuse to leave but you have to keep inviting us back ’cause we’re family.
Blouise,
I play Words With Friends via my phone and just use Facebook as a way to connect with other people playing. I assume Scrabble works the same way (i.e. if you connect your facebook account to your smartphone app, then it is easy to challenge friends who have done the same, but if not, you only need the email address associated with the phone to challenge someone). Isn’t technology wonderful
yes it is and you know how connected my daughter is but … I also stay away from smartphones. My son-in-law and daughter keep threatening to buy me an iphone(?) but I keep resisting.
Wow! Just read that nine have died in Dallas County from West Nile. Can’t walk the dogs at dusk any longer.
Blouise,
What will you do when the robot apocalypse comes and you don’t have a smartphone?
SwM,
Yikes!
Slarti,
Probably head over to NASA
If anybody figures out how I can get in on the game … email me
I gotta go meet the County Prosecutor (for drinks)
Later
LK
some days i should’ve just stayed in bed
WoW, Unfortunately for me I can’t play. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I started reading about all of the info sharing, theft, and unquestioning compliance with any government request for info etc. and I resigned from all of the social media sites I had joined as well as Google. Just because you’re paranoid it doesn’t mean “they” aren’t out to get you. I figure you don’t even have to be into anything shady, if your government goes mad it can target anyone or any ‘tag’ for any reason. Also, I just don’t like the exposure to corporate America, the less info they have about me the better, and that doesn’t even touch on information/identity theft. Facebook said recently that as many as 86 million of its profiles are probably false. I wouldn’t let my hypothetical kids NEAR social media…rant, rant, rant, wow, I don’t even know where that came from… Darn, I can’t play, waaaaaaaaaaa.
Pete, you are a gem.
“Pete”—an alliterative blank verse tone poem
poor Peter
lamenting lexicological larks
and alienating alliteration
bemoaning bygone bed
sleep’s surcease
goodnight
Now look what you made me do!
ARGGGGH,
The religious ‘freedom’ amendment passed in MO. What a hoodoo ridden, ignorant state (I live in).
From Fox news:
Another part of the amendment sparking controversy is a section that reads “no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/07/missouri-votes-tuesday-on-amendment-to-fortify-public-prayer/#ixzz231EyNTse
Blouise,
It is all good. I have enjoyed the word games!
Evidently black people, Latino people and other minorities are able to purchase alcohol without a picture ID, well to hear the Democrats tell it, anyway.
“no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs.”
wow. I think my religious beliefs might be variant depending on which essay questions I was unprepared to answer.
Damian,
First of all, no one is making that claim. If you insist, provide a link.
Secondly, to address your false assertion, there are a lot of people who don’t buy alcoholic beverages. And, you don’t need a picture id if you are obviously of age to buy. Or you can get someone else to buy for you – ask an underage teen how they do it.
bettykath,
If I were still in school I would be working on a memo explaining that my religious beliefs did not allow for the writing of essays.
Slarti, I hear ya. Essays, math word problems, history dates. I’ll bet there will be teachers saving some of those “religious reasons” for a book.
I’d probably be the only one who’s religion required doing math problems…
Slarti
you know they’d want a 5-7 page single spaced essay on religious beliefs first.
bettykath,
Anything but those damned math word problems!
Now if the students unite they can create their own religion, elect (or hire) the essay nerd to write up their beliefs for all to use. They can accelerate the growth of the teach-nothing school.
Several convenience stores in our area are out of business for second and third offenses of selling alcohol to teens or straw purchasers. ID is mandatory, and the clerk who sells to a person without an ID of some kind risks arrest. The argument presented by Damian does not hold water. You are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.
OS, what is “straw”
bettykath,
it is when someone who is of age is buying for someone who is not of legal drinking age.
“Man! I get tired of this crap. Why is everything related to race, hence the politically correct term, (certain demographics). I am sure that all races and ages would be affected having to show ID to vote. If you can’t get an ID then you should be ineligible for everything else too, not just voting. You need ID for Medicare, Hospital admission,various purchases, loans, cashing checks. What is the issue. Get over it.”
Wow. This is a massive projection.
I’m tired of the crap too. I’m tired of the crap that amounts to attempts to limit civil rights in the name of “preventing fraud” when there has been no fraud to start with. I’m tired of the crap that amounts to acting as if racism, sexism, government corruption and widespread dishonesty are no longer problems because somebody has written a few articles stupidly claiming that we’re all cured now, we’re all doing right now, and except for some “suspicious guys” and “thugs,” we’d be perfect right now if only mamby-pambies weren’t flapping their jaws.
I’m tired of the fact that whenever a court really screws up in such a way that anybody who ever HEARD of the phrase “rule of law” would be so up in arms they would tear down the courthouse brick by brick, the appellate judges find a way to call it “harmless error” and pretend the whole thing would have come out the same way even if the court had not obscenely misfunctioned.
I’m tired of the fact that elected legislators in the 50 states are passing laws that they know are unconstitutional because they realize that with the economy as it is now, it will take at least three or four years for anybody to gather up the money to make a legal challenge to the thing — if even they ever can — and meanwhile they can do whatever unconstitutional crap they planned to enable (with that “enabling legislation”) after which it will be moot.
I’m tired of the fact that in every state agency and in every federal agency BAR NONE there are “fixers” and hustlers who are using the taxpayers’ money to fix in place — better than the newest, most efficient dental glue — every small scam, knowing that to bust anybody doing this takes so much firepower that their victims will never be able to pull together enough energy to make a little ineffectual SQUEAK SQUEAK while they eat and drink the human rights of everyone in their thieving slaver “jurisdictions.”
I am tired of it.
And now, taking the one cosmetic thing we all had to fool us into thinking this really was a government of the people, by the people and for the people, taking the VOTE itself, is just par for the filthy course. And it is, at least, a tiny bit more honest (“We really want to make you not be able to vote”) than all the rest of the stinking lies that preceded it.
Pete said: “Slarti you know they’d want a 5-7 page single spaced essay on religious beliefs first.”
NOOOOOOOOOO!
Malisha,
Well said!
Al Gore was a pussy. I would have made them pay.