“A Vision Of The Future”: Military Magazine Details Plan For Putting Down Domestic Uprising

Civil libertarians have been concerned for years with the move toward greater use of the military in domestic operations by both President George W. Bush and now by President Barack Obama. The military continues to shift resources for prepare for large-scale domestic operations. Most recently, the Marines moved to create a battalion to allow the military to “be capable of helping control civil disturbances, handling detainees, carrying out forensic work, and using biometrics to identify suspects.” Now the Small Wars Journal, a respected publication closely followed in the U.S. military, has published an article entitled “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A ‘Vision’ of the Future” by retired Army Col. Kevin Benson of the Army’s University of Foreign Military and Cultural Studies at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., and Jennifer Weber, a Civil War expert at the University of Kansas. It lays out not just the military but the legal basis for military operations to crush domestic insurrections in the United States.


The authors write how the military must be prepared to act against citizens when they received orders regarding domestic threats to the government. What is troubling is the lack of balance in the article and the general assumption of legality in the full spectrum of such operations. What is clear is that, again, Congress is allowing for such preparations without any serious discussion or review. The assumption of legality will soon become the acceptance of legality in domestic use of military forces.

The article lays out how the existing policies regarding “full spectrum” operations require the military to prepare for internal campaigns against our own citizens: “full spectrum operations in the coming two decades (US Army Training and Doctrine Command, The Army Operating Concept 2016 – 2028, TRADOC Pamphlet 525-3-1, dated 19 August 2010, p. iii. Hereafter cited as TD Pam 525-3-1. The Army defines full spectrum operations as the combination of offensive, defensive, and either stability operations overseas or civil support operations on U.S. soil).”

The underlying scenarios are set for as soon as 2016 if the economy does not improve and unrest grows. Focusing on a town called Darlington, the article explores an order to “Fix Darlington, but don’t destroy it!” The authors write “We cannot discount the agility of an external threat, the evolution of Al Qaeda for example, and its ability to take advantage of a ‘Darlington event’ within U.S. borders.”

The authors write “once it is put into play, Americans will expect the military to execute without pause and as professionally as if it were acting overseas.” The article takes on a chilling tone, telling its many military personnel readers that “the Army cannot disappoint the American people, especially in such a moment.”

The authors spend comparatively little time considering the constitutional and legal barriers to the operations. They details how “Federal forces continue to tighten the noose as troops seize and secure power and water stations, radio and TV stations, and hospitals.” Yet, legal limitations are treated as largely irrelevant.

I have no problem with provocative articles exploring scenarios. This are issues that we should be discussing. However, the tenor and one-sided analysis of the piece is rather chilling. What is even more chilling is the lack of national debate as the Obama Administration continues the expansion of the military into domestic law enforcement and operations. It is indeed a “vision for the future” — the question is whether this is the vision that most citizens have for their government and themselves.


Source: Wasington Times

147 thoughts on ““A Vision Of The Future”: Military Magazine Details Plan For Putting Down Domestic Uprising

  1. The only way I can put my reaction is that I’m shocked, but not surprised. I’ve expected that this type of thinking has existed in the Military, Intelligence and Industrial Complex for a long time. That they choose to publicize it now does add a chilling urgency.

  2. It is also unfortunately related to Romney and Ryan emerging from a battleship, because their Ayn Rand philosophy will cause an uprising if implemented.

    One cannot fully understand Ryan and this election unless they understand Ayn Rand:

    In a 2005 speech to a group of Rand devotees called the Atlas Society, Ryan said that Rand was required reading for his office staff and interns. “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” he told the group.

    (Ayn Rand: Patron Saint of The Plutocracy). She was so clueless that she called a psychopath “Superman”, “the perfect man”, and the ideal Amercian man.

    That man, unbeknownst to fans, as psychopaths tend to be, cut off the legs of a young child he kidnapped, also robbed, pillaged, and murdered multiple times.

  3. I’m assuming that when all this would be taking place it would be under martial law and there would BE on Constitution. Oh! Kind of like it is now!

  4. I find this very planning unconstitutional and shocking. We don’t need our military planning for ways to control Americans. It is supposed to work the other way around.

  5. Hasnt this been going on with FBI investigation of groups exercising 1st Amendment rights…and a violation of other rights…does a citizen have a case against the FBI when the FBI has investigated that citizen for exercising those rights … http://www.stopfbi.net/

  6. ‘To All Innocent Fifth Columnists’ excerpt:

    “And if you — in the privacy of your own mind — believe so strongly in some particular good of yours that you would be willing to deprive men of all rights for the sake of this good, then you are as guilty of all the horrors of today as Hitler and Stalin. These horrors are made possible only by men who have lost all respect for single, individual human beings, who accept the idea that classes, races, and nations matter, but single persons do not, that a majority is sacred, but a minority is dirt, that herds count, but Man is nothing.” ~Ayn Rand

    http://fare.tunes.org/liberty/library/taifc.html

    I agree with her on this statement

  7. mespo727272
    1, August 13, 2012 at 10:26 am
    I find this very planning unconstitutional and shocking.
    ———————-
    Mespo, what Lawyers organization is working to counter this? You know, in a time effective manner so that it does not become more moot history…..

  8. Agree totally w/ all that this is scary. However, what also scares me is how we Americans would react to a pandemic or economic conditions akin to the Great Depression. I don’t know the answer on how we should be prepared for those possibilities. You all do realize the civility of our culture since the 1918 pandemic and the 1930’s Depression has declined greatly. So, how should we prepare? This is not a sarcastic or judgemental question, I don’t know.

  9. The modern movement started with George W. Bush’s creation of NORTHCOM, and moves to undermine possee comitatus. NORTHCOM is active in Mexico under the Merida Initiative, and was active in the cleanup of the BP oil spill.

    Under the 2008 NDAA, this movement was accelerated:

    “For the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of “homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.” Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being “necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities” under section 1815 of the FY2008 NDAA.”

    http://publicintelligence.net/u-s-domestic-contingency-purchasing/

  10. So now that the sitting armed militia is ready, willing and very capable of shooting American citizens on American soil makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over……

  11. One of the key elements of fascism is militarism.
    One of the key elements of corporatism is allowing corporations to set national policy for their benefit.
    One of the key elements of totalitarianism is brutal oppression of dissent.
    This coup will be brought to you by Halliburton in conjunction with CCA.

  12. Last Monday the administration was in court to overturn the stay on NDAA. They also refused to let the judge know if they had defied her stay and indefinitely detained a citizen living overseas in contravention of her legal order. It is the administration (not Congress) asking to overturn a legal order and further, refusing to comply with a judges’ order for evidence and stay of action. I ask the question, why this and why this now? (Of course, anything the administration wants as far as the abridgement of rights will be granted by this Congress.)

    Apparently it never occurs to the powerful jerks running things that you could prevent social unrest by 1. addressing the actual economic needs of the people and 2. restoring the rule of law. However, these actions would require a genuine desire to make things work. That is obviously not the plan.

    These people want power. To get it they have stolen public funds, they will abridge our rights, they have created a state of permanent warfare and are engaged in a strikingly effective propaganda campaign. It is all working.

    Notice how al Qaeda keeps growing larger every day, moving in to all the places the US powers want under their thumb? Just as in 1984 the govt. created a permanent state of war to keep people in line, this wasn’t quite enough. The worst enemy was the “enemy within”. The 2 mins. of hate against anyone who questioned the govt. was necessary to truly keep people in line. Clearly, this playbook is being followed by US powers.

    The one hope we have of confronting this utter lawlessness is to take off the blinders and see what is happening. This is a heavily armed govt. turned against its own people. People have been primed for our two minutes of hate, divided by race, class, and particularly by party. It is necessary to confront the hate priming that has gone on, reach out to others and use soul force to confront overwhelming military force.

  13. Well well, now more people will begin to live in the world I have lived in. I do not necessarily welcome having all the company, however…

  14. As far as I’m concerned it’s all been here since the National Guard was ordered by the government onto the Kent State Campus and issued live ammunition resulting in the deaths of students who were doing nothing more than walking to class.

    Once the government and the guardsmen got a free pass for that, I knew we were all phucked.

  15. Here’s a vision of the present that is part and parcel of a govt. who sees its citizens as “the enemy”. It also shows the public/private fascism of the financial/military/industrial complex. It is released by wikileaks. Their site has been shut down for over a week. Go to wikileaks on twitter to get updates: “Anyone who takes a photograph at high-risk locations is logged as a suspected terrorist on a vast network of secret spy cameras linked to
    the U.S. Government, according to leaked emails.

    People pointing cameras in New York are regarded as suspicious and the facial recognition images of them from the civilian CCTV are fed into a data centre run by U.S. firm Abraxas.

    The system then connects with hundreds of other cameras in a bid to pinpoint potential terrorist activity, it is claimed.

    Details of the system emerged from emails released by whistle-blowing website Wikileaks. The issue has caused outrage among privacy campaigners amid fears that it could be abused.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187602/U-S-Government-secretly-spying-using-civilian-security-cameras-say-Wikileaks.html#ixzz23ROzSbrl

    US powers are not concerned with the safety or welfare of US citizens. They are concerned with power and wealth. Even those who want to believe still have a choice to make. That choice is to break faith with the rule of law for one’s supposed safety. History is littered with bodies when the people of a society decide to break faith with fundamental human rights in exchange for “safety”.

  16. I will say that I don’t expect the American Public to be subjects of tyrrany, so if we have a situation where our own government attacks our citizens as the Syrian Government is currently doing, the public has a natural right to eject our government by force if necessary. A murderous government has no legitimacy.

  17. No way, America becoming a totalitarian police state? Say it ain’t say so, I’m no big Alex Jones fan, and don’t subscribe to many conspiracy theories, but the warning signs have all been there since 9/11. Global military hegemony, & police state at home. With the Patriot Act, Military Comissions Act, NDAA, never mind Obama’s executive order on complete control of the economy in case of “emergency”. When the dollar collapses, or war breaks out with Iran, the US is going to get locked down faster than the Germans under Hitler, or the Russians under Stalin.
    It’s sad to watch what was the most amazing experiment with liberty turned into the Orwellian place it has become.
    I’m sure all the good work they are doing at the ACLU will get Manning freed, Obama won’t detain Americans without charges or trial, they don’t secretly rendition prisoners still, and they don’t assassinate American’s anymore do they? Well if only you could spy on the govt the way it claims to be able to do to you, we might get some truth out of Big Brother that was just a pacifier for the land of the Un-free, home of the slaves.

  18. BE PREPARED – BE PREPARED

    THE NWO 10 COMMANDMENTS: ( just do as you are told )

    1) HAND OVER YOUR GUNS ( sit back and leave the shooting to us )

    2) TAKE YOUR INJECTIONS ( or get school entry refusals )

    3) SIGN-UP ON FACEBOOK ( make it easy on us )

    4) BUY A SMART-PHONE ( get hooked- literally )

    5) TAKE YOUR FLUORIDE ( or we will force it in your water )

    6) EAT MONSANTO PRODUCE ( and get sick )

    7) DO NOT DISTURB POLICE IN ( they are on duty )
    ACTION BY PHOTOGRAPHING

    8) ACCEPT FRISKS AT AIRPORT ( TSA is only doing their job )

    9) DO NOT SLIP A TONGUE AND ( it can and will be used against you )
    EXPRESS YOUR THOUGHTS

    10) DO NOT BELIEVE IN AMEND- ( they are for the elite only )
    MENTS

  19. Notice how al Qaeda keeps growing larger every day, moving in to all the places the US powers want under their thumb? ~Jill
    ———————————-
    Jill this is just the opposite of the newscast the other day….are you hearing or reading different?

  20. The legislative and judicial branches much reassert their power. Currently, the executive branch is using the perpetual wars to run roughshod over civil liberties in room 641A, lack of habeas corpus for enemy combatants and the extablishment of kill lists to include US citizens. They (the Obama administration) claim the executions can occur anywhere, including on US soil. Frightening.

  21. Wootsy, no, this very post shows the govt. trying to implant the idea that al Qaeda will be in the US and that is why we will need the military to “protect us”. Further, I guess you haven’t seen the newz about al Qaeda moving into Syria? It’s in Yemen, that’s why Obama said we have to use drones there even without any declaration of war!

    From the article in SWJ:
    “The authors write “We cannot discount the agility of an external threat, the evolution of Al Qaeda for example, and its ability to take advantage of
    a ‘Darlington event’ within U.S. borders.” Of course, this idea is ridiculous to anyone who is allowed access to facts, but that would not be most of our citizens. Propaganda is very effective when it permeates a society and shuts out reality or access to reality. It’s why people think Iran is going to attack the US mainland and needs to be bombed.

    The scary thing is that the military is the most trusted institution in the US. If you see just what happened to Bradley Manning for example, that his torture was approved at very high levels in the military, you will wonder how this can be. Propaganda has a way of erasing the truth and replacing it with ideas that don’t make sense.

  22. As a retired military officer (AF) I find this very disturbing, and frankly outrageous. I used to think that the military would refuse to be a part of such a thing, but sadly I can no longer say that.

    I still hope for some brave souls in senior leadership that would refuse to carry out such unconstitutional operations, or a revolt among the junior officer ranks, maybe. Hey, a guy can hope, right?

  23. “Wootsy”
    —————-
    careful! every time you make a typo…the errorists win! (it’s Woosty… ;) )

  24. Philip SZ: Judicial power is being misused to wreck small lives and to commit the small injustices; the executive power will do the big stuff; legislative power has no effect because of the other two. Legislative “power” in fact makes things worse by writing laws we all imagine have effect; laws have no effect until interpreted (by the courts — out of existence) and enforced (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!).

    That is, there was already a law against murder in Florida on 2/26/2012. So damn what?

  25. “As far as I’m concerned it’s all been here since the National Guard was ordered by the government onto the Kent State Campus and issued live ammunition resulting in the deaths of students who were doing nothing more than walking to class.”

    Blouise,

    I couldn’t agree more.

  26. Dredd 1, August 13, 2012 at 9:56 am

    It is also unfortunately related to Romney and Ryan emerging from a battleship, because their Ayn Rand philosophy will cause an uprising if implemented.

    One cannot fully understand Ryan and this election unless they understand Ayn Rand:

    In a 2005 speech to a group of Rand devotees called the Atlas Society, Ryan said that Rand was required reading for his office staff and interns. “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” he told the group.

    (Ayn Rand: Patron Saint of The Plutocracy). She was so clueless that she called a psychopath “Superman”, “the perfect man”, and the ideal Amercian man.

    That man, unbeknownst to fans, as psychopaths tend to be, cut off the legs of a young child he kidnapped, also robbed, pillaged, and murdered multiple times.
    ===============
    Paul Ryan is from Janesville, Wisconsin. Don’t blame me. Maybe he’s already been prayed into heaven.

  27. Mike S.,
    I was in college when the Kent State massacre went down. Our school closed down early because of the unrest that was made worse by the Kent State murders.

  28. I also heard that al Qaeda is moving into select Board of Elections in select states right here in the Homeland to implement voter fraud and that every citizen worth his/her salt must be prepared to open their homes to the troops who will need to be quartered amongst the people in order to root out the al Qaeda plotters who will be poised to act during the 2016 presidential election by sending hordes of fraudulent voters to the polls and thus stealing the election from the rightfully anointed republican/democratic candidate.

    Hand to heart.

  29. Matt Johnson 1, August 13, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Dredd 1, August 13, 2012 at 9:56 am


    Paul Ryan is from Janesville, Wisconsin. Don’t blame me. Maybe he’s already been prayed into heaven.
    =============================
    Yes I know of his elitist background, a Plutocrat of Plutocrats, born on the block he still lives on, with family members living on the block or near, as that link I provided points out.

    The American populace is not only unaware that the power that governs them is not a “democracy” except as veneer, they are also unaware of the world at large:

    … Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, in his book Strategic Vision, focusing on this failing aspect of American society, writes: “its populace is self-deluded and, frankly, ignorant about the rest of the world”

    (The Failure of Applied American Epistemology). Another savvy fellow points out the real core of these powers that be (who will win the election if they need to through means and methods I will not discuss here) as follows:

    Support for democracy is the province of ideologists and propagandists. In the real world, elite dislike of democracy is the norm. The evidence is overwhelming that democracy is supported insofar as it contributes to social and economic objectives, a conclusion reluctantly conceded by the more serious scholarship.

    (Noam Chomsky @Tom Dispatch). This post of JT shows that they are tiring of the charade of U.S. democracy, and are already prepared to use other methods and means.

    It is a matter of when.

  30. Dredd,

    This need exists because we express and project, to the world, that we are a nation with a philosophy of government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”
    ================
    Once they wake up, it won’t be Kent State. It will be Ted Nugent.

  31. When was Kent State? I’m trying to relate it timewise to the student uprising in Paris, 1968.
    It is one of my sores, the few from there in the USA. Along with JFK, RFK and MLKjr.

    Jill and Woosty.
    Many say AQ is in Syria. And why not, the Sunnis want
    to counter the Iranian Shia influence there since 1980’s, and the alleged coupling between SA and AQ seems accepted.

    Note however that two days ago in NYT an OpEd done by a female “deserter” from the Alawites who penetrated Syria to Saqib from Turkey. She says that nothing she saw or heard indicated AQ in Syria, including reports from Homs. ?????

    So glad to see folks uproared. Woosty asks Messpo what the lawyers are doing. Malisha asks what Congress is doing. And I guess JT ask us all what we are doing.

    Note to all.
    You remember of course: ….”the Obama Administration continues the expansion of the military into domestic law enforcement and operations.” from above by JT.

    Well, the military has been taking intelligence and operational control effectively over the police since some time back. So the operational merger is quasi in operation. Of course, similar arrangements predate on the intelligence and op front from the assassination of JFK.
    Then, it is alleged, one key Army reserve intelligence officer was also a key figure in the Dallas police department.

    So what’s new is that the plans are national in scope.
    Or are they not? They haven’t informed me yet.

    Sleep well, your National Guard is…….!

  32. “In the real world, elite dislike of democracy is the norm.” Chomsky cited by Dredd above.

    For the Pentagon view of democracy, the press, the Congress and the necessity of lying to them all, read the first chapters of Daniel Ellsberg’s book: “Secrets”.

    Ellberg is a proven hero, he had waded the paddies in Vietnam with our troops, wént out to the ARVN units to expose the lies reported by our advisors to satisfy the requirements to feed Washington and the press with, advised JFK in 1951 (on JFKs visit there), and was earlier a marine battalion op officer who extended his discharge date to stay on board with his unit waiting for invasion orders off the Mediterranean coast.

    A true Anerican patriot. We need more now.

    Pentagon’s attitude: You don’t need to know. Don’t get in the way. We know best. That is all you need to know.

  33. The United States Government killed JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald had a junk standard Italian army surplus rifle. That isn’t a sniper rifle. Lee Harvey Oswald was drinking a soda when JFK was shot.

  34. Soon half the population will be surveilling the other half—actually all will be doing it to each other.
    Kids against parents, students against professors, etc.

    Anerican politicians liked the Soviet model so well we have been adopting it in secret. Our next goal is to imitate China. Any volunteers for a factory job?

    Curious about Sovjet terror? Want to see our ultimate fate? It won’t be as nice as 1984.

    Read “Hope against Hope”, by Nadesda Mandelstam, available at Amazon. I got it from the library. The mother of my jewish neighbor used to read samisdat of his poetry smuggled out. Osip did not have anything of his own published since 1920’s, but wrote a lot not published but circulated in samisdat, yet he is regarded today as Russia’s most significant poet in 1900s. Two russians I know have concurred upon my questioning of his rep.

    Learning of others mistakes and strengths is useful.

    Blouise, thanks for the warning. I vote at the embassy. Very tight AQ control there. smile.

  35. Idealist, mother of your Jewish neighbor in Sweden? Or here? Where was the mother?

    Matt J, I agree about JFK, and it was pretty obvious that the story wouldn’t fly even by the time Jackie stood there with blood all over her pink suit and said, “Let them see what they have done.” I also think the Jack Ruby thing was carefully arranged and he was so nuts he didn’t understand it himself. What a bunch of Romans we will look like to the future historians, if there is a future.

  36. “Blouise, thanks for the warning. I vote at the embassy. Very tight AQ control there. smile.” (id707)

    Well then, only 3 troops need to be quartered with you just in case an al Qaeda operative has moved into your basement and registered an imaginary friend as living in your bathtub who then follows you to the embassy with the sole purpose of hiding under your coattails and sneaking in to cast a fraudulent vote.

    Que appropriate music to guarantee your acceptance of this danger and agreement that all possible measures should be taken … even in Sweden: (this video has it all … fresh-faced troops, football players, flag, jets, two former Presidents, Michael Douglas, and trumpeters)

  37. You know, for the longest time, since 9/11 (gag), I have been telling people that this was coming. Now that it is becoming so obvious, I thought I would feel a little pride for being so prescient. However, I mostly feel sick. I spent four years in the Navy, serving my country, but, damnit, this isn’t the country I promised to serve and protect. idealist707, Sweden is begining to look very nice!

  38. I thought it was illegal for the military to act within our borders.

    Preparing for food riots? Maybe a civil war? Now that is possible given the current political climate.

  39. SwM,

    On November 2, 2010, Moon and a group of former Washington Times editors purchased the paper from Moon’s son, Preston Moon, for $1.

    That’s all I could find.

    Swooosh ;)

  40. Malisha,
    My neighbor, Lena, did not say, and I did not ask as she was in a hurry. Her mom was from Poland. No details. She is the one who first tried to get me to let her ride on my trip to the country, but has declined to be buddies since. Would love to get to know her as she did consulate duty for at least 3 years in NYC.

  41. Blouise,

    Love your over the top humor.

    To which I reply: Do I get to check the accept contract box before clicking. We all risk false results thanks to electronic voting machines.

    PS
    I will wear extra long coat on election day. (keep wanting to say erection day….why?. been long since last, maybe. Old times sake?)

    I have a fake-fur lined one I bought on an expensive shopping street in Rome, just the one running down the hill from the Spanish steps.
    Well, it is so large and long that have never worn it since. Could accomodate at least two AQ voters.

  42. Kraaken,

    If it is any consolation, I’ve been calling this since I was in law school (well before 9/11). People I knew then kind of laughed it off when I said, “Soon we will start having our civil liberties stripped away under the guise of fighting terrorism, real or imagined.” They don’t laugh about it anymore. Being correct in analysis (either post hoc or predictive) is very often not the equivalent of being happy with the answers. But that is the thing about sussing out the truth. It isn’t always pretty nor what you want it to be, but it has the benefit of being true.

  43. After reading the editorial in the “Washington Times” and looking at the picture of the Tea Party flag next to it, it looks to me like more moonie fodder for them.

  44. After reading this article and comments…and links, I had a sudden urge to stick chopsticks through my ear and pierce my frontal cortex. Cognitive thinking can bring its own despair, (in buckets). I wonder what it would be like to watch Fox and believe everything they say. I would be a patriot, a proud American, a good christian, a strong tough man, independent, and Right as in repub) and right as in correct. I would not need my frontal cortex. Cognitive Shmognitive…..
    OH So tempting, ………. NAH, the price of Reason is worth the difficulties of Reason, to have the knowledge of Reality. I would rather experience the Joy and Fear of Reality.
    I don’t don’t keep chop sticks in my house anyways. :o)

    PS. I think I spelled Shmognitive wrong.

  45. Idealist

    “I will wear extra long coat on election day. (keep wanting to say erection day….why?. been long since last, maybe. Old times sake?)

    I have a fake-fur lined one.”

    You have a fake fur-lined one….What ? …… I hope your talking about a coat !!!!!!

    “Well, it is so large and long that have never worn it since. Could accomodate at least two AQ voters.”

  46. In 2005, Hurricane Katrina, one of the first “responders” was Blackwater. They shot 4 people that we know of. Bush then unleashed a group of soldiers on American soil to quell civil unrest. At that time, Democrats and civil libertarians believed doing so was wrong.

    Since this time we have seen the complete integration of Israeli forces, US regular forces, US special forces and private contractors conducting surveillance and much worse towards American citizens. You need to research this if you do not understand what has happened.

    Democrats are so easily turned against their fellow citizens. If they did not have the tea party they would have to think about what is really happening. It is no different for Republicans. If they did not have liberals they also would have to confront what is actually happening in our society.

    I hope soon that people will not be so easily manipulated into hatred of their fellow citizen. This is counterproductive and serves the power elites well. It is why it is such an encouraged pass time among each party–a thought stopper so neither group will understand or think for herself.

    If this doesn’t stop we the people do not have a chance. Only a smart, aware, ethical and united people can use soul force to combat a govt. which is armed to the teeth against its own population. That is the truth and no amount of self lies and comforting lies told to others will get us out of what we face.

  47. David Blauw 1, August 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Idealist

    “I will wear extra long coat on election day. (keep wanting to say erection day….why?. been long since last, maybe. Old times sake?)

    I have a fake-fur lined one.”

    You have a fake fur-lined one….What ? …… I hope your talking about a coat !!!!!!

    “Well, it is so large and long that have never worn it since. Could accomodate at least two AQ voters.”
    ==================================
    Keep your coat to yourself. You’re a pussy. Nobody wants your coat.

  48. The Soviet Union is gone, China is on the road to economically smoke us. Starting wars seems to be currently frowned upon. Although a Repub Prez, House and Senate (plus Fox & Limbaugh) could probably turn that around in a few years. Whats a Democratic Republic, slaved to Capitalism supposed to do now?
    OH I know, lets divide our own people, get them to start tearing each other apart, then we can militarize our military against our own people… BRILLIANT.
    The Soviet Totalitarians are gone. Now the USA has no US vs THEM game to play. Has anyone notice that we are becoming a bit more like the Soviets every year?
    I bet there is a huge potential IRONY waiting to be discovered. Somewhere in the past there must be a political anti Soviet speech disclaiming certain Soviet practices,
    …… and the practices being denigrated will be ones that the USA is beginning to implement on we citizens today. Irony Irony.
    I just thought of this, The Soviet threat kept our government honest (at least 1/2 honest). Now it’s gone. For 50 years our military existed “massively” to counter this threat.
    Our military is still massive, now we make up threats, and super size them. ….. And super size the fries too, you got a 64 oz bucket of coke no ice?

  49. Thomas Jefferson once said, “There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army.”

    Wise fellow, that Jefferson.

    An army with no real legitimate military enemy is simply a coup d’état waiting to happen. Terrorism, unless it is openly state sponsored, is and always has been a police problem, not a military problem. You don’t have to be Nostradamus to see what dots are connecting. Just a student of history with minimal pattern matching skills.

  50. http://www.naturalnews.com/035607_government_checkpoints_Martial_Law.html

    Just a few weeks ago, the federal government initiated a contract for acquiring 450 million rounds of .40 caliber ammunition. “The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions,” says a press release from the award winner, ammunition manufacturer ATK. (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-co…). This ammo is for the Department of Homeland Security as well as ICE.

    Question: What does DHS intend to do with 450 million rounds of barrier-piercing hollow point ammunition?

    The really important answer is that no one buys hollow point bullets for target practice. They’re too expensive. Practice ammo is always FMJ ammo (Full Metal Jacket), meaning it has a solid tip. But the far more expensive hollow point ammo is ballistically designed to shred internal organs upon impact. It’s the kind of ammo used by police officers who want to shatter the bad guy’s sternum as quickly as possible and thereby bring him to the ground where he bleeds out from internal tissue trauma.

    The DHS is a domestic agency. It does not fight wars overseas. It almost exclusively concerns itself with the American people on American soil. That the DHS is contracting to buy 450 million rounds of hollow point ammo can only mean DHS plans to need this ammo to be used against the American people.

  51. Bravo, Gene. You hit the proverbial nail on the head (so did Mr. Jefferson). Do you think that maybe that was the reason for not instituting an army post-revolution?

  52. Kraaken: “You know, for the longest time, since 9/11 (gag), I have been telling people that this was coming. Now that it is becoming so obvious, I thought I would feel a little pride for being so prescient. However, I mostly feel sick.”

    I know exactly how you feel; this news article is not a surprise. But the future is not carved in stone.

    The best antidote to this slide into a totalitarian state is general prosperity. People that are making money and having a good life just don’t have time or patience for government repression or much government BS of any sort. That we are watching an artificial impoverishment in the western world is not an accident IMO, and it’s not an end in itself, just a means to an end.

  53. Kraaken,

    I think that mindset (not uncommon among the Founders) was part of it and simply the raw economics of starting a country from scratch was the other. Although they had defeated arguably the world’s greatest military power of the time, the freshly minted country needed to build infrastructure as quickly as possible if they wished to remain both free and competitive on the world stage.

  54. Wow. The most chilling thing about this article is the replies. People nowadays really have abandoned any desire for civil liberties, and will literary continue to defend the State and Party at all costs, demanding its expansion into civil society even on a article about how it is now making plans on how to kill them. Scary….

    Thomas Jefferson would turn over in his grave if he saw what Collectivist political philosophy has done to our country and those once beloved principals of ’76 (and ’98)

  55. This once meant something…

    Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776) by Mason, Madison, and Jefferson

    A DECLARATION OF RIGHTS made by the Representatives of the good people of VIRGINIA, assembled in full and free Convention; which rights do pertain to them and their posterity, as the basis and foundation of Government.

    I. That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

    II. That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.

    III. That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.

  56. Not to mention this (by Thomas Jefferson in the Kentucky-Virgina Resolutions)…

    “That the several states composing the United States of America are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by compact, under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes, delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each state to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force”

  57. Of course, at the time of the Virginia declaration of rights, Virginia was not only a slave state but the chief slave-producing state. Ahhh, Virginia.

  58. And with this article and mention of TJ how could I not add this…

    “What country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

    -Thomas Jefferson

  59. Aaron,

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.”

    Don’t use words you don’t understand as pejoratives. In a democracy, the power rightfully rests with the people which is by definition a collective of individuals. Jefferson’s words mean the same thing now as they did then, including the collective right of the governed to control the government and be free of oligarchical despotism and tyranny.

    Individual rights are of critical importance but they only exist in the context of a society – a group – that protects them. The protection of individual rights is not just a singular effort, it is a singular effort aided and enforced by the collective.

    The erosion of our civil rights is not a function of collectivism. The erosion of our civil rights is a function of democracy being supplanted by the creeping tyranny of plutocratic oligarchical corporatist fascism which by definition puts the needs and desires of a few ahead to the needs and the desires of the many ergo it is antithetical to the collectivist form of government known as democracy because it concentrates power in the hands of the few and once concentrated that power is threated by dissolution and distribution of power to the many in a democracy.

  60. Hopefully, one outcome of this defense analysis debacle will outrage enough people that it will politically forestall any movement toward moving toward this military posturing.

    It’s much easier at this state to prevent such a bad outcome in the beginning before it expands to a worse situation.

    Better that the cat’s out of the bag now; better than heading down the wrong path secretly. I don’t want to see bad things for us or those in office. People need to undertand the average person does not pose a threat to the security of our country.

  61. Matt Johnson,

    Thanks. You inspired a good one on my part.

    A retreat to verbal abuse shows but a lack of more fertile words with which to pursue an argument.

    Dedicated to the master of alliteration, sex unknown but suspected.

  62. Darren Smith,

    Just for comparison and reflection.

    Operation Northwood, signed by JCS chief Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, available in fotostat copy on the net, was aimed at providing military motivation to attack Cuba, Its form was to do a false flag operation to dupe the people, outrage them, scare them, and provide pressure for the desired decision.

    9/11 was a revival in far greater scope and expertise and with a greater goal. Its ultimate purpose was to create a continuous war against an adversary who could never be regarded as defeated finally. The war on terrorism.

    Let us now contemplate 450 million hollow point 40 caliber rounds ordered by Homeland Security.
    Does anymore convincing fact be necessary to convince us that there is one with our names on it?

    War empties the coffers. Kings were in the hands of financiers. Now we are in the hands of the financiers also. And the whole conspiracy. And for every leaker we have 10 million picking happily up there paychecks and pensions. Some becoming millionaires after early retirement, so has been proven as CIA employees start companies for doing contracts for their old employer.

    Duplicity and greed feed corruption and defeat justice and democracy at every joust.

    Since they see us as potential rebels, is it not time to rebel, before their plans have been fully executed?

    We have a moral leader in TJ. How to do it without the preparations being detected? No preparations. Just blood on the streets.

  63. Idealist:

    With many of your points I consider to be true or at least plausable, I might not hold as strong their inter-relation. But what can be worrisome is to presume seemingly related events draw proof of a particular outcome, in this example the belief of an upcoming oppression by the federal government. We certainly should work to prevent this from happening by ordinary means, namely the voting booth, but also with investigative reporting, news media or simple word of mouth.

    As for the 450M rounds of 40 caliber hollow point ammo, I might offer at least a measure of reassurance this might not be the concern as it might appear.

    DHS employs 200 thousand individuals. Surely all of these persons are not commissioned officers and do not carry firearms but a large number do. If we assume that 60% have handguns that makes 120,000. Hollow point ammo is not used in general by military personnel but is in LE uses. I would suspect that is for police type agencies. If you take the 120,000 and divide this into 450,000,000 that is 3,750 rounds or 75 boxes per person. This does souund like a large number but consider also that a LEO can easily shoot 20 boxes of ammo per year just on training and qualification per year. The DHS also maintains the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and new officers can easily shoot 3000 rounds or 60 boxes of ammo during firearms training. Given also the fact that LE egencies have been plagued with ammo shortages over the years, buying this amount might be reasonable for supply purposes.

  64. What a pleasure it is to see all of you quasi-commies working yourselves up into a frothy, inconsolable, irrational terror. I’m sure when the crap hits the fan it will be you all acting like loons running, screaming and ducking for cover.

    What did you all expect would happen when you continually hand the central government more and more cash and power?

  65. lottakatz:

    “That we are watching an artificial impoverishment in the western world is not an accident IMO, and it’s not an end in itself, just a means to an end.”

    Let me guess who your bad guys are, no need. Now how can we see the same thing happening and have 2 different conclusions as to why it is happening?

  66. Jefferson was quoted up-thread, so to show accord with Jefferson note what another early president said:

    Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied: and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. Those truths are well established.

    (Greatest Source …, quoting James Madison).

  67. Darren,

    Just goes to show you can’t trust figures, or figures that produce them rather. Take your pick. You seem good at it. Thanks for the math. International convention required soldiers to use bullets which disable but do not maxiamize trauma, thus full jackets.

    But who gave police the right to use hollow point? There was some discussion in the newspapers in Sweden when they were proposed some few years ago.

    When I hear figures used to impress I usually say: In comparison with what, in what percent, per capita, per annum, per what you idiot.

    Bla bla increased profit by xxx million (0.05 percent WOW). But here I swallowed the bait and the opinion which followed it. Fool, am I, and I have company.

  68. ID707

    Since they see us as potential rebels, is it not time to rebel, before their plans have been fully executed?

    We have a moral leader in TJ. How to do it without the preparations being detected? No preparations. Just blood on the streets.
    ============================================
    Surprise.

  69. Wow, just spun through the replies of this article, which is a pleasantly surprising loud criticism that we just don’t see enough of.

    What is happening here is similar in many ways to what happened in Germany, circa 1930’s.

    A democratically administered nation, slowly and incrementally pushed towards tyranny, with the complacency of the public at large, and with a few loud doomsayers that no one took seriously. Eventually the doomsayers were taken seriously enough by the govt to shut them up.

    By the time the voting public did take it seriously, they could no longer vote to undo it. At that point the Stockholm syndrome for self-survival kicked in, the public mostly going along with it, and the only way to undo the seizure of the nation by jingoists, statists and extremists in power, was either by revolution or by what happened – being beaten militarily by other powers.

    We here on the internet are still relatively comfortable, but inch by inch the govt is most definitely encroaching very personally on your lives. You feel it in many incremental ways, but by necessity and practicality dismiss the real urgency of it all. You still have that mental cushion that says, “Well there not here banging at my door.”

    But the encroach is multifaceted and has become a mental mindset of all branches our goverments, national as well as the very local.

    For me, they can and have started banging at my door; my little pit of hell of overarching, insinuating and presumptuous govt action has expressed itself in the local agencies of the Family Court system, which comes with it the very real and instant probabilities of ruinous fines, property seizures, licensure revocations, and imprisonment, for non-crimes.
    That is my bette noir, but you can be sure there are dozens of others custom made for each person in this country.

    But I see that aggressive attitude and heavy-handed unconstitutional assertion of power over the individual in America, as a symptom across the board. All our govt branches and agencies have developed this mindset, and they feed off each other’s confidence that they can and will do these things.
    The checks and balances are compromised and muted, the courts feel the same anti-individual thrust, and are not curbing their dogs.

    In sum, it is fk’d, and it will be only too soon that they will be knocking at your door too, for one reason or another.
    Then you will no longer have that mental cushion, or any resources, to scurry back to, and will have to face what another part of you has known all along to be true.

  70. ME 1, August 14, 2012 at 9:24 am

    What a pleasure it is to see all of you quasi-commies working yourselves up into a frothy, inconsolable, irrational terror. I’m sure when the crap hits the fan it will be you all acting like loons running, screaming and ducking for cover.

    What did you all expect would happen when you continually hand the central government more and more cash and power?
    ==========================================
    Ask Stalin. Or Hitler. Or the dumb Dago.

  71. Here’s more information on the present. Find at wikileaks on twitter: “Mass interception of entire populations is not only a reality, it is a secret new industry spanning 25 countries

    It sounds like something out of Hollywood, but as of today, mass interception systems, built by Western intelligence contractors, including for ’political opponents’ are a reality. Today WikiLeaks began releasing a database of hundreds of documents from as many as 160 intelligence contractors in the mass surveillance industry. Working with Bugged Planet and Privacy International, as well as media organizations form six countries – ARD in Germany, The Bureau of Investigative Journalism in the UK, The Hindu in India, L’Espresso in Italy, OWNI in France and the Washington Post in the U.S. Wikileaks is shining a light on this secret industry that has boomed since September 11, 2001 and is worth billions of dollars per year. WikiLeaks has released 287 documents today, but the Spy Files project is ongoing and further information will be released this week and into next year.

    International surveillance companies are based in the more technologically sophisticated countries, and they sell their technology on to every country of the world. This industry is, in practice, unregulated. Intelligence agencies, military forces and police authorities are able to silently, and on mass, and secretly intercept calls and take over computers without the help or knowledge of the telecommunication providers. Users’ physical location can be tracked if they are carrying a mobile phone, even if it is only on stand by.

    But the WikiLeaks Spy Files are more than just about ’good Western countries’ exporting to ’bad developing world countries’. Western companies are also selling a vast range of mass surveillance equipment to Western intelligence agencies. In traditional spy stories, intelligence agencies like MI5 bug the phone of one or two people of interest. In the last ten years systems for indiscriminate, mass surveillance have become the norm. Intelligence companies such as VASTech secretly sell equipment to permanently record the phone calls of entire nations. Others record the location of every mobile phone in a city, down to 50 meters. Systems to infect every Facebook user, or smart-phone owner of an entire population group are on the intelligence market.
    Selling Surveillance to Dictators

    When citizens overthrew the dictatorships in Egypt and Libya this year, they uncovered listening rooms where devices from Gamma corporation of the UK, Amesys of France, VASTech of South Africa and ZTE Corp of China monitored their every move online and on the phone.

    Surveillance companies like SS8 in the U.S., Hacking Team in Italy and Vupen in France manufacture viruses (Trojans) that hijack individual computers and phones (including iPhones, Blackberries and Androids), take over the device, record its every use, movement, and even the sights and sounds of the room it is in. Other companies like Phoenexia in the Czech Republic collaborate with the military to create speech analysis tools. They identify individuals by gender, age and stress levels and track them based on ‘voiceprints’. Blue Coat in the U.S. and Ipoque in Germany sell tools to governments in countries like China and Iran to prevent dissidents from organizing online.

    Trovicor, previously a subsidiary of Nokia Siemens Networks, supplied the Bahraini government with interception technologies that tracked human rights activist Abdul Ghani Al Khanjar. He was shown details of personal mobile phone conversations from before he was interrogated and beaten in the winter of 2010-2011.
    How Mass Surveillance Contractors Share Your Data with the State

    In January 2011, the National Security Agency broke ground on a $1.5 billion facility in the Utah desert that is designed to store terabytes of domestic and foreign intelligence data forever and process it for years to come.

    Telecommunication companies are forthcoming when it comes to disclosing client information to the authorities – no matter the country. Headlines during August’s unrest in the UK exposed how Research in Motion (RIM), makers of the Blackberry, offered to help the government identify their clients. RIM has been in similar negotiations to share BlackBerry Messenger data with the governments of India, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.
    Weaponizing Data Kills Innocent People

    There are commercial firms that now sell special software that analyze this data and turn it into powerful tools that can be used by military and intelligence agencies.

    For example, in military bases across the U.S., Air Force pilots use a video link and joystick to fly Predator drones to conduct surveillance over the Middle East and Central Asia. This data is available to Central Intelligence Agency officials who use it to fire Hellfire missiles on targets.

    The CIA officials have bought software that allows them to match phone signals and voice prints instantly and pinpoint the specific identity and location of individuals. Intelligence Integration Systems, Inc., based in Massachusetts – sells a “location-based analytics” software called Geospatial Toolkit for this purpose. Another Massachusetts company named Netezza, which bought a copy of the software, allegedly reverse engineered the code and sold a hacked version to the Central Intelligence Agency for use in remotely piloted drone aircraft.

    IISI, which says that the software could be wrong by a distance of up to 40 feet, sued Netezza to prevent the use of this software. Company founder Rich Zimmerman stated in court that his “reaction was one of stun, amazement that they (CIA) want to kill people with my software that doesn’t work.”
    Orwell’s World

    Across the world, mass surveillance contractors are helping intelligence agencies spy on individuals and ‘communities of interest’ on an industrial scale.

    The Wikileaks Spy Files reveal the details of which companies are making billions selling sophisticated tracking tools to government buyers, flouting export rules, and turning a blind eye to dictatorial regimes that abuse human rights.

  72. Dredd 1, August 14, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Jefferson was quoted up-thread, so to show accord with Jefferson note what another early president said:

    Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied: and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. Those truths are well established.

    (Greatest Source …, quoting James Madison).
    =====================================
    History repeats itself, get ready.

    George W. Bush is an eternal teenager. And he was elected twice. Welcome to reality, America.

  73. “once it is put into play, Americans will expect the military to execute without pause and as professionally as if it were acting overseas.”
    I suppose dissenters can look forward to “enhanced interrogation”, and posthumous potraits of themselves while grinning hillbillies hover over them.

  74. Idealist:

    For military use purposes, hollow point ammo is prohibited by The Hague Convention of 1899 (Declaration III). This convention does not apply to civilian agencies, only military forces.

    The reason why hollow-point ammo is used by police agencies in the US is an ugly truth but is what it is. Generally the reasons are as follows:

    In the past, most police agencies used .38 caliber, round nosed bullets. Later, this was abandoned due to under performance issues where the cartridges were not effective in stopping violent offenders.

    The hollow point, or specifically the jacked hollow point (JHP) or Semi-jacketed version (SJHP) became the standard due to better performance. The reasons are:

    The bullet expands significantly, often with jagged edges which sever more veins and arteries, leading to rapid blood loss and faster incapacitation.

    The expansion tends to prevent over-penetration in which the bullet passes easily through the intended target and threatens others.

    Hollow point bullets do not have the same richochet potential as FMJ ammo does.

    Hollow point ammo tends to be somewhat more accurate as this shifts the overall weight to the back of the bullet and this causes a minor benefit of increased stability during flight.

    Hollow point ammo is better for use against metal targets since it does not damage the target as quickly as FMJs do.

    Given these traits of the new bullets one cannot help but look at this with a bit of revulsion, but as I said it is what it is. A LEO or anyone else who is being attacked and needs to use a firearm to defend herself wants that threatening person to be incapacitated as fast as possible. Currently firearms provide the best protection to a person trying to kill the victim. I don’t see this changing in our lifetimes. Tasers are not effective against someone shooting at the victim, especially at distances greater than 20 feet. Tasers do not always work due to the darts not hitting properly. A LEO cannot take a chance on dying by using these.

    Globally speaking, one has to look at the reason for the use of JHP ammo not the ammo itself. If the public believes the police or individuals only use firearms when lawful or for the purpose of self defense they are in my view benign. Abusive governments are worse than the ammo they possess, which I suspect is your main concern.

    Consider the alternative, an abusive government with FMJ ammo. People hit by say the Syrian government’s forces’ FMJ ammo are not going to declare “Thank God these abusive police forces shot me with FMJ rounds, I could have been really hurt badly. When they shoot FMJ they show they are the more progressive belligerant.”

    Until humantiy declares universally a farewell to arms we have the reality in which we presently live.

  75. while grinning hillbillies hover over them.
    ================================
    Forget about the grinning hillbillies. They’ll kill you, but they won’t bother to take your picture.

  76. The news Jill bears scares me.

    Little did I know, when in Saudi in th 80’s I was told of our products capability to tap any individual’s phone anytime without preparation of physical sort, that this would result. All thanks to digital as opposed to the old wire borne technique.

    That they now can tap whole nations, snalysing some of it in almost real time and all of it over time is only a natural result of digital tech.

    The symbol of the “thigh bone weapon” used by an “enlightened” human predecessor in “2001” has new significances. Disturbing ones,

    I repeat what has been said before. The era of the great experiment in democracy is over.

    One can discuss if the termination process began after WW ONE or in 1840 fifty years after it started.
    For myself, I believe it began before the ink was dry on the signatures.

  77. Darren,

    We would all agree that the use of crisscrossed tip bullets is humane as described by you. I do also.
    It is the appropriate one combatting the enraged or doped.

    The international convention assumes that a wound results in the intended and approved results; ie the retirement of the wounded from effective combat, not his death necessarily.

  78. ANOTHER VISION OF THE FUTURE

    I am thankful for living in a peaceful country. Where use of firearms by criminals or police is rare.

    My visiting niece and her husband remarked on the lack of police sirens. I was glad for them. Also that they tried on their own in town to make contacts with Swedes as needed. They brought up later that they had and were very pleased with the results. I had demonstrated this several times for them on their first day.

    To end on a positive note: the international acceptance of English as de rigeur working language has made it easier for all. We can also thank the open culture so visible from American sources on TV and film. All have adopted in, even the tourists who visit (shy japanese, etc.); even the muslim youth here imitate it.

    The youth are our only hope now.

    When and if a collision will occur is hard to say.

  79. George Zimmerman used hollow-point bullets I believe. I think he told either Serino or the guy who did the Voice-Stress Test.

  80. If the authorities are preparing to combat citizen violence with military violence then maybe the trick is to work out how to achieve change in a non-violent manner…

    So many people accept the two-party system of government instead of joining with others to form a new and viable political party (the Common Sense party perhaps?) and inviting citizens who are disillusioned with both of the main parties to join it and support it with small contributions.

    The existing parties are supported by a small number of individuals who give them a lot of money each. Why not use the internet to get a large number of people to give a small amount each?

    There are so many intelligent people who could stand for election once enough people had been persuaded to join a new political movement… You could start by creating a website about the idea, promoting it through the socual networks and asking for pledges of a regular amount, however small (no payments to be made until the party is ready to be formed and legalized) and see what happens. If more than one person starts up and their ideas match, they can simply link up with each other and, regardless of what the websites are called, agree on a name for the party and so forth… it wouldn’t hurt to try rather than waiting passively for the ghastly scenario envisaged for 2016… Just a thought from abroad… :-)

  81. ME: Not to worry. When the feces hits the fan, people like the majority online here will be the ONLY ones standing up for our beliefs and our rights. The rest of you will be the ones rolling over and letting the military-industrial complex rub your bellies and tell you that black is white, day is night and that wrong is right.

  82. Linnet Woods,

    That matches well my way of organizing resistance. A party would be even better as a goal. Some try and have failed. My key point was we have to start where we stand locally, and then effect local politics etc. before expanding our cooperation. A long process or an avalanche.

    A party would be a way of neutralizing the accusations of being terrorists, a concrete and acceptable goal with a program.

    Do you agree with the need for figureheads with bipartisan esteem to be guarants for its seriousness?

    I suggest two names: “Constitutionalist party”, or “Return to 1776 party”.
    They should confuse the right wing voters and the libs can figure it out I’m sure.

    PS I’m in Sweden and you are in England I presume.

  83. Linnet Woods-

    Very interesting comment.

    I have had some hope that the traditional Republicans and Tea Party might lock horns and have a battle for control at the Rep. Convention if one or the other exercises it’s power and dumps on the other faction, This could lead to a 1912 type situation with one faction breaking away and forming a new third party. There are plenty of Rep’s. radical enough to do such a thing if they feel marginalized. And I don’t think that the establishment Republicans are ready to hand the party over to the Bible-belt redneck faction and the Ayn Randers.

    This might inspire the demoralized “progressives” and “liberals” to break away from the “lesser of two evils” Obama worshipers and form a fourth party. I can think of few things that would be more beneficial for this nation than the splintering of the two party system. Maybe wishful thinking, but it would be a hell of an improvement over the current two (military-industrial-plutocracy-permanent war) party system. There are a lot of Americans not being represented by either of these two corrupt and dying organizations.

  84. HenMan,

    Two words for you: Bobcat Party.

    Next to campaign finance reform, there is little that would benefit the country as much as breaking the two parties/no choice system currently in place.

  85. Befoe we all divide up “Ma Bell and her children” and create multiple parties, reflect a bit on the European experience. Ills lurk there too.

    What are your goals? Do they automatically devolve from structural changes or from other ones?

    My intent was to develop the american way from the local bottom level.

    Here we have parties making open alliances to achieve publicly declared goals. Sounds sound, but not always.

    In the corrupt traditions there even JC would have climbed down from the cross and gone home to his brothers. Just to give emphasis to how far it has gone there, I fear.

  86. What a difference a comma makes (familiar melody)!

    “In the corrupt traditions there (in America), even JC would have climbed down from the cross and gone home to his brothers.”…..etc.

  87. So, Woody, is there some way to figure out how much the federal govt has spent on the infiltration project? How were the infiltrators screened and hired? How many reports did they make? Where is the result of their work?

  88. It is interesting to note that many people from the political “left” as well as the political “right” are up in arms over reports that military and civilian authorities in the U.S. Government have plans for our military to engage, if necessary, in “full spectrum” operations to include internal campaigns against those of our citizens who are regarded (by the government) as domestic threats to other citizens or to the government.

    But the differing political points of view of those who are upset about the role of the military to put down a domestic uprising reveals not only our political differences but also what we apparently share in common, at least to some extent, regarding the domestic use of our military not only to put down an insurrection with force of arms but also to gather “intelligence” on citizens who are merely engaged in political speech.

    The recent Small Wars Journal article referred to by Professor Turley in this blog posits a hypothetical military intervention to quell an insurgency initiated by tea party activists — “right wing,” “extremists,” “insurrectionists” — all of whom are lumped together with militias and organizations that are considered “racist” and “anti-immigration.” By contrast, those who oppose the tea party are referred to as “mainstream” in this magazine’s hypothetical uprising. This article, co-written by a retired U.S. Army Colonel and a civilian History Professor who is a Civil War expert, is a hypothetical scenario that has the right up in arms because it suggests that tea party activists are all insurrectionists. And it appears that it also has the left up in arms, based on the responses to this blog post, even though the good Professor did not state in his post that the target in this hypothetical consists of right-wing tea party insurrectionists.

    On the other hand, a recent article from the George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal posits a similar hypothetical military intervention, only this one is to put down an insurgency initiated by the Occupy movement and therefore it targets “left wing” anti-war activists and members of social justice organizations. Both of these articles posit different hypothetical military interventions to illustrate the potential for the abuse by our government of our free speech rights and our civil liberties during the prevailing era of real threats to our security by real terrorists.

    Of the two articles, the one from the George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal is superior in explaining that there are risks that the balance between our legitimate security concerns and our constitutional liberties have tipped too strongly in favor of the security concerns. The fear is that this could lead to unwarranted lose of our civil liberties, domestic spying, and perhaps even a real military intervention. But the concern is articulable and is based upon on shortcomings in existing (published) civilian executive orders and military doctrines, not on the run-away imaginings of conspiracy theorists from either the right or the left. I highly recommend actually reading the full Small Wars Journal article and more especially this latter article, to wit:

    Smith, McKay M. Smith, Occupy Wall Street and the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division: A Hypothetical Examination of the Slippery Slope of Military Intervention during Civil Disturbance (August 2, 2012). George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal (CRLJ), Vol. 22, No. 3, 2012. Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=2122857.

  89. Both of these articles posit different hypothetical military interventions to illustrate the potential for the abuse by our government of our free speech rights and our civil liberties during the prevailing era of real threats to our security by real terrorists.
    ======================
    What free speech rights? I had a circuit court judge in Wisconsin who tried to order me not to send email messages to certain individuals. I asked the judge if he knows what the 1st Amendment is. Do you want to talk about a slippery slope? They already think they can do whatever they want.

    I worked for the IRS. They can’t do anything except audit your tax return, but they still think you should be afraid of them.

  90. “What free speech rights? I had a circuit court judge in Wisconsin who tried to order me not to send email messages to certain individuals. I asked the judge if he knows what the 1st Amendment is.”
    ==========================
    Matt J, I heard an exchange in the courtroom as follows:

    Pro se litigant: Your Honor I believe it is a violation of my First Amendment rights to tell me that I can’t speak about this to anybody.

    Judge: The First Amendment is Constitutional law; this is a state court, we don’t do constitutional law here.

  91. Malisha,

    I basically told the circuit court judge to pi** off. I was a bit more politically correct about it than that, but not much. Bailiff followed me out the door.

  92. Have there been any real terrorist attacks of significance (other than psychological/propanganda value) since 2001? I think not.

    Reason? George didn’t need any “major events”. Just a little stuff to keep the volunteers excited in
    various places far from the homeland, and keep our fear level sufficiently high to assure passage of laws and of deeds (Katrina military cleanup) needed to confirm capability.

    Now studies are to be admired and honored after merit, and one supposes that they did not do them solely for the value in increasing their various emoluments, so they should be examined in detail and analysed, etc.

    But I feel it is effort misspent. Why? Because, as one here pointed out in a different context, you can never know what is in the mind of another.

    Well doubledown by a factor of X millions on that inability to know, due to a simple fact, the rulers of our country DON’T want you to know what, how, when, they are planning in form of contingency measures.

    My blanket dissing of studies is quite attackable on many grounds, so do please differ. I would be so happy to see some real value in studying them as a protection/defense of our “rights”.

    And special thanks to Matt and Malisha for their reports from reality.

  93. ID707: Depends on how you define terrorists. Any terrorist attack is signifigent if you’re the one being attacked, wounded, killed: This list doesn’t include the attacks/vandalism on various candidate HQ’s, the burning crosses that still crop up and the ubiquitous vandalism at womens’a health clinics, Iconsider this a partial list and lifted it from Wikipedia. There ia another list as long of failed attacks.

    May 2002 Mailbox Pipe Bomber: Lucas John Helder rigged pipe bombs in private mailboxes to explode when the boxes were opened. He injured 6 people in Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Illinois, and Iowa. His motivation was to garner media attention so that he could spread a message denouncing government control over daily lives and the illegality of marijuana, as well as promote astral projection.

    2002 July 4: 2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, a 41-year-old Egyptian national, kills two Israelis and wounds four others at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport.[39] The FBI concluded this was terrorism, though they did not find evidence linking Hadayet to a terrorist group.[40]

    October 2002 Beltway sniper attacks: During three weeks in October 2002, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo killed 10 people and critically injured 3 others in Washington D.C, Baltimore, and Virginia. The pair were also suspected of earlier shootings in Maryland, Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, and Washington state.[41] No motivation was given at the trial, but evidence presented showed an affinity to the cause of the Islamic jihad.

    2006 March 5: Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar injured 6 when he drove an SUV into a group of pedestrians at UNC-Chapel Hill to “avenge the deaths or murders of Muslims around the world”.[42]

    2006 July 28: Seattle Jewish Federation shooting, Naveed Afzal Haq, an American citizen of Pakistani descent, kills one woman and shoots five others at the Jewish Federation building in Seattle. During the shooting, Haq told a 911 dispatcher that he was angry with American foreign policy in the Middle East.[43]

    2007 October 26: A pair of improvised explosive devices were thrown at the Mexican Consulate in New York City. The fake grenades were filled with black powder, and detonated by fuses, causing very minor damage. Police were investigating the connection between this and a similar attack against the British Consulate in New York in 2005.[44]

    2008 February: In the first reported incident of animal-rights extremists physically assaulting the family members of animal researchers, six masked activists attempted to force their way into the home of a University of California, Santa Cruz, researcher and injured the researcher’s husband.[45][46]

    2008 March 3: Four multimillion-dollar show homes place in Woodinville, Washington, are torched. The Earth Liberation Front is suspected.[47]

    2008 March 6: A homemade bomb damaged a Recruiting Office in Times Square[48]

    2008 May 4: Multiple pipe bombs exploded at 1:40 am at the Edward J. Schwartz United States Courthouse in San Diego causing “considerable damage” to the entrance and lobby and sending shrapnel two blocks away, but causing no injuries. The F.B.I. is investigating links between this attack and an April 25 explosion at the FedEx building also in San Diego.[49]

    2008 July 27: Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting: Jim David Adkisson enters the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee with a shotgun, killing two and injuring several congregants before being tackled to the ground. Adkisson stated to the police and in a manifesto that he desired to kill Democrats, liberals, African Americans and homosexuals. Adkisson pled guilty to the crime in February 2009 and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.[50][51]

    2008 August 2, August 3 University of California-Santa Cruz molecular biologist David Feldheim’s home was firebombed. A car belonging to another researcher from that university was destroyed by a firebomb in what is presumed to be related. FBI is investigating incidents as domestic terrorism related to animal rights groups.[52][53]

    2009 April 8: According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, intruders left malware in power grids, water, and sewage systems that could be activated at a later date. While the attacks which have occurred over a period of time seem to have originated in China and Russia, it is unknown if they are state-sponsored.[54]

    2009 May 31: Assassination of George Tiller: Scott Roeder shoots and kills Dr. George Tiller in a Wichita, Kansas church. Roeder, an anti-abortion extremist who believes in justifiable homicide of abortion providers, was arrested soon afterward. Roeder was convicted of convicted of the crime and sentenced to 50 years in prison in 2010. Tiller, who performed late-term abortions, had long been a target of anti-abortion extremists; he his clinic was firebombed in 1986 and Tiller was shot and wounded five times in 1993 in a shooting attack by Shelley Shannon.[55][56]

    2009 May 25: 17-year old Kyle Shaw sets off a crude explosive device at a Starbucks at East 92nd Street on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, shattering windows and destroyed a bench at the coffee shop. There were no injuries. The attack was a “bizarre tribute” of the movie Fight Club, in an attempt to emulate “Project Mayhem”, a series of assaults on corporate America portrayed in the film. Shaw took a plea agreement and was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison in November 2010.[57][58]

    2009 June 1: Arkansas recruiting office shooting: Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot and killed one military recruiter and seriously wounded another at a Little Rock, Arkansas Army/Navy Career Center in an act of Islamic terrorism. Muhammad, a convert to Islam, had vised Yemen for 16 months, where he spent time in prison and became radicalized. Muhammad, said he was part of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and upset over U.S. killing of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.[59]

    2009 June 10: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting: 88-year-old James Wenneker von Brunn, a white supremacist and neo-Nazi, walked into the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., shooting and mortally wounding Stephen Tyrone Johns, a security guard. Von Brunn was wounded when other museum guards immediately returned fire and on January 6, 2010, von Brunn died of natural causes at a hospital near where he was imprisoned awaiting trial.[60][61][62]

    February 18: 2010 Austin suicide attack: Joseph Stack deliberately flew a small Piper Dakota aircraft into a government building in Austin, Texas, killing himself and an Internal Revenue Service (IRS) employee in an attack aimed at the U.S. government.

    2010 September 1: Discovery Communications headquarters hostage crisis: James J. Lee, armed with two starter pistols and an explosive device, takes three people hostage in the lobby of the Discovery Communications headquarters in Discovery Channel in Silver Spring, Maryland before being killed by police. After nearly four hours, Lee was shot dead by police and all the hostages were freed without injury. Lee had earlier posted a manifesto railing against population growth and immigration.[63][64]

    2011 January 6: Three packages detonate in the mail rooms of two Maryland state government buildings, causing minor injuries to the fingers of two government workers.[65]

    2012 August 5 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting 6 killed, 3 injured including a police offer who was tending to victims at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Wade Michael Page age 40 killed himself after being shot by police.[66] The shooting is being treated by authorities as an act of domestic terrorism.[67][68] While a motive has not been clearly defined Page had been active in white supremacist groups

  94. Paul O’Reilly: “The recent Small Wars Journal article referred to by Professor Turley in this blog posits a hypothetical military intervention to quell an insurgency initiated by tea party activists — “right wing,” “extremists,” “insurrectionists” — all of whom are lumped together with militias and organizations that are considered “racist” and “anti-immigration.
    ,,,, And it appears that it also has the left up in arms, based on the responses to this blog post, even though the good Professor did not state in his post that the target in this hypothetical consists of right-wing tea party insurrectionists.”
    ——————–

    I can’t imagine it mattering to civil libertarians. I’m not a fan of any of the groups you mentioned as above, but the thought that U.S. troop would be used to fight or round up civilians is repugnant in a country that values the civilian form of government and civilian sovereignty. It’s done and legal to do under most circumstances to maintain order, the National guard is called out in riots and, as stated above, Kent State speaks for itself.

    I’m glad you noticed but I’m surprised you thought the left, or at least the people you pegged as left-wingers on this blawg, would want the military rounding up the right-wingers.

  95. Lotta,

    That is your definition of terrorist. The list of deeds

    Fine, then I feel secure except for the risk of being robbed or struck by lightning.

    One self-proclaied AQAP “member”. No other ones other than the usual loonies. No grand schemes nor conspiracies, nor groups etc produced after 11 years of constatated USA terrorism on its own citizens.
    I regard TSA and the many other misconducts reported here as true terrorism.

    The record of what our government and its agencies have done to us during these years are well documented.
    The “you are probably guilty or at least suspect and can now be executed without etc.” laws, decrees, declarations are all forms of state terrorism on its citizens.

    The state of terror is one experienced and expressed by folks I know well there. As presumably you all do or know well of the widespread fears.

    By the nature of proof I can NOT prove all this taking away of our rights or the surveillance known or possible to achieve, is in fact NOT necessary.

    But I feel, as do many, that this is not good nor well-intended in re democracy.

    This is in way of explaining my position rather than rebutting yours, except as to the numbers of true terrorist deeds. We have not had any since 9/11 is my contention.

  96. Let’s not forget the $385M contract that Kellog Brown and Root (KBR) was awarded in 2006 for building detention centers for:

    “establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs.”

    From KBR’s 2006 press release found here.

    And here is some discussion of this from Project Censored, circa 2006.

  97. The political system in the UK is similarly stuck in a loop with equally unproductive results, unfortunately. I fear the same is true of several other countries I know of too. Having read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein a while back, I find all that is happening chillingly predictable, I’m sorry to say :(

  98. Actually I am in Spain and I am a British Citizen, technically, although I prefer to think of myself as belonging to the entire human race and having planet Earth as my country… I don’t believe figuregheads would do – we have seen too many of those already. People of genuine intent and intelligence, common sense and disinterest in short-term personal financial gain would make far better political leaders and people would get to know them soon enough. Most politicians have never been heard of until they are heard of… :-)

  99. Dredd’s reference early on in this thread to Ayn Rand, and Gene’s comments on corporate fascism are quite appropriate. Objectivism is the designer drug of choice for economic oligarchs. As conservatives continue to eliminate the balance of power between labor and capital, economic (and therefore political) inequality will continue to widen. History tells us that this eventually leads to civil unrest, and the mobilization of military power to protect the “productive” class from the predations of society’s “parasites.” That is why so-called third-world countries exist in almost continual states of revolution.

    In his book “A People’s History of the United States,” Howard Zinn observed, “Capitalism has always been a failure for the lower classes. It is now beginning to fail for the middle classes.” He is correct. And the corporate interests that increasingly control the political process may ultimately require resort to military power to protect their prerogatives.

  100. Matt J: Right, but then when you do need to communicate, you’re on radar. And we’re all saying yes, we know, we know. And if we were ever to REALLY object to this, there’s always the court, and failing that (by the numbers), the military.

  101. Malisha,

    Already been to court. Already took the battery out of my cell phone. Only got arrested once, and they let me go after four hours.

    Wasn’t that serious.

  102. Mike Appleton-

    In 1867, Karl Marx had a pretty good handle on what’s happening to working people in today’s America. I think he saw things a bit more clearly than Adam Smith.

  103. Gilded age again? Go ahead and elect Romney and Ryan. It will be a disaster. George W. already did massive damage. Maybe they can elect another bug exterminator from Texas as well. Then he can try out on Dancing With The Stars.

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