By Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
Rosa Hernandez
The Dominican Republic’s church-inspired ban on all abortions has cost the life of a pregnant 16-year-old according to her mother, Rosa Hernandez. The teen, who suffered from leukemia, was unable to undergo life-saving chemotherapy until it was too late. The DR’s ban prevented a therapeutic abortion of the 13 week fetus as doctors were unwilling to make an exception.
A blood transfusion on Thursday was unsuccessful, and the postponed chemotherapy was likewise ineffective. The teen miscarried on Friday but died from complications including cardiac arrest.
“My daughter’s life is first. I know that (abortion) is a sin and that it goes against the law … but my daughter’s health is first,” Hernandez said. Not according to DR law which constitutionally provides that “the right to life is inviolable from the moment of conception and until death.” Dominican courts have interpreted this as a strict mandate against abortion.
Article 37 of the DR’s constitution, which also bans the death penalty, was heavily promoted by the Roman Catholic Church. The Church’s all-out war against abortion has taken root in heavily catholic Latin America, where 16 states in Mexico have recently adopted constitutional amendments declaring that life begins at conception. These follow the criminalization of abortion under all circumstances by Nicaragua in 2006, and El Salvador in 1998.
In 2009,the Dominican Gynecology and Obstetrics Society warned that enacting Article 37 would lead to more maternal deaths. The United Nations Program for Human Development coordinator Miguel Ceara Hatton said, “The Catholic Church influenced in everything. For following a dogma it has become a source and a motor for social exclusion in the Dominican Republic. The dogma is placed ahead of the needs of the population, health, housing and better living conditions.”
The needless death has precipitated a world-wide outcry against the ban, but Rosa Hernandez’ daughter is still dead in service to someone else’s principles.
Source: CNN
~Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/13/the_paul_ryan_vision_of_america Paul Ryan wants to ban abortion in all cases.
sm:
Of course he does. Theocrats aren’t particularly creative thinkers.
They are not “right to life.” They are in favor of forced births, which is not synonymous with right to life. That teen had a right to life too. This is what happens when politicians and theocrats put ideology ahead of good medical practice.
Then after birth, people like Paul Ryan and his teabagger supporters have no interest in helping that child have good health or a good education.
Whenever the church utters the obvious lie, ”The church ‘loves’ you” one must immediately drop the word ‘loves’ and substitute the word ‘hates’……. The only thing the church loves is your money and you supplication…… as long as you’re on your knees………
Yeah, what OS said. Somebody may have a right to life, but they NEVER have a right to LIFE INSIDE MY BODY unless they’re ME.
“Then after birth, people like Paul Ryan and his teabagger supporters have no interest in helping that child have good health or a good education.”
I’d rephrase that as: [They] have no interest in allowing a child to have decent health or a decent education.”
Oh wait a minute, that kind of makes sense. If there are lots of people running around living hand-to-mouth, having no money at all, without any entitlements to decent health or a decent education, we have a…wow, we have cheap labor, irrelevant “civil rights,” automatic inequality, and the folks have no time at all to get together and protest anything or try to interfere with our program and we have a military that’s absolutely FILLED with eager soldiers because they get three squares and a roof…oh NOW I GET IT.
If men had babies, I’m sure there would be no ban on all abortions.
“If men had babies, I’m sure there would be no ban on all abortions.”
Elaine, they’d be available at 7-11.
On of the big feminists in NY back in the late 80s, early 90s, said that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a SACRAMENT.
Otteray Scribe
1, August 18, 2012 at 9:18 am
They are not “right to life.” They are in favor of forced births, which is not synonymous with right to life. That teen had a right to life too. This is what happens when politicians and theocrats put ideology ahead of good medical practice.
Then after birth, people like Paul Ryan and his teabagger supporters have no interest in helping that child have good health or a good education.
————————-
hear hear
But I would go along with curtailing legal abortions….when people who commit rape or ‘forced consensual’ relations are immediately given the death penalty….you know how those fundamentals work!
Sex with women under the age of 18 should incur life in prison for the male.
Theft of $$$ that endangers the victims livlihood or lifestyle should also incur the death penalty. Because stealling the means of someones life is really no different than stealing their life.
Deceit, slander and lying….cut out tongues.
Gee Whiz, sounding kinda like a fundy Shiite…. please wake me when we start acting like free thinking Americans again….
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html
“But I would go along with curtailing legal abortions….when people who commit rape or ‘forced consensual’ relations are immediately given the death penalty….you know how those fundamentals work!
Sex with women under the age of 18 should incur life in prison for the male.
Theft of $$$ that endangers the victims livlihood or lifestyle should also incur the death penalty. Because stealling the means of someones life is really no different than stealing their life.
Deceit, slander and lying….cut out tongues.”
Woosty,
So good it bears repetition. The entire abortion issue revolves around hatred of woman and their right to choose their own sexual lifestyle. from these malign fools point of view it is better to have this 16 year old die, than to have her go unpunished for her sexuality. As far as the influence of the RC Church goes, given their history of severe sexual misconduct, they should not be allowed to be the arbiters of human sexuality. Your list of complementary criminal acts starkly show that this hatred is one that relates to female activity.
Great story Mark. It is amazing how screwed up our lives can get when you mix Religion with governing a country. This example is a Latin american version of the Taliban. What is next? Stoning?
I’ll repeat myself…. a little more gently this time…. The Catholickass church is the greatest stain on Humanity, in the entire history of the human race……….
SHAME THEM INSTEAD OF EDUCATING THEM
Off on a tangent, triggered by all the stuff showing what a nut Ryan is.
We can pile it all up high as Cheop’s and it won’t change a single vote.
You know why. It is the people we have to change. And giving them facts (or opinions) won’t change their minds.
There is ONE ROUTE LEFT: showing them themselves and hoping that they will feel ashamed to hear how folks like them “understand” the Ryan plan, followed by listening to a soundbite from Ryan putting numbers on his plan. Whatever you decide the target is their seeing how stupid their felllow Ryan supporters are.
Do interviews, with names and geographic and vocational labels attached in the text, with “folks” from the “red states”.
Might be effective as spot ads. Trial it first of course. There might be time and money left.
Educating does not work. Shame ‘em instead.
Reblogged this on Glory to man in the highest.
Mark,
Fine job. But do these terrible things not happen now in some abominable state in USA? Surely with all the ALEC and antiabortion action, some young woman has died because of abortion restrictions. And perhaps even the RCC is part eveb here of the problem.
It is not your intent, but we agree hopefully that
finding problems in another country or region gets us immediately off the hook—at least in some folks’ minds. Not yours nor mind nor the folks here—-issuing a blanket dismissal of all such suspicions of us at Turley’s. OK?
Not looking to find fault, just trying to not get carried away by my empathy with the girl and her father. And those who say, OK throw the stone, but not at my daughter. So said Cheney.
Like Swift I use far off to show could be.
Proof positive that the theory of evolution is correct. No God would ever create humans this stupid. Yes we formed in a primordial goo, and have evolved to where we are today. Some people have walked slower than others out of this Goo.
Two words summarizes the policy…. Inglorious Bastards…..Nation’s Pride…..
The Roman Catholic Church takes Darwins scientifically based theory of Goo and denies it, by maintaining the RCC “theiry” of God. Who knew one letter could cause so much harm.
Mespo….. Will you release the moderation que…… I posted a title of a movie…..inglorious b…….
I have heard very devout Catholic women opine that if men had babies abortion would be a sacrament.
The so called Catholic culture of life is nothing more than a culture of death for women and children. After the precious children are born the mothers and children are left to fend for themselves. The Church has forgotten its mission and turned its back on Christ, preferring money power and control over compassion, love and kindness.
Woosty:>”Sex with women under the age of 18 should incur life in prison for the male.”<
Woosty, it takes two to tango. Why 'for the male' and ONLY the male? If the female is under 18 (in most states), it's just as illegal for her to have sex as it is for the male to have sex with her. Sounds a bit 'unequal' to ME.
Justice Holmes,
I agree with you. Only I would say that the RCC mission included oppression of women anc children from the beginning. Now who is to blame for that is left to discuss.
Paulus is a scum figure who met primarily with jewish
synagogues who had a lot of Gentile hangarounds. And most cultures seemed to be patriarchal. So the mystery deepenx.
Woosty, it takes two to tango. Why ‘for the male’ and ONLY the male? If the female is under 18 (in most states), it’s just as illegal for her to have sex as it is for the male to have sex with her. Sounds a bit ‘unequal’ to ME. ~Kraaken
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I was speaking in the ‘fundamentalist’ tone touted by those who set the rules in countries who are currently under those rules. I do hope we do not become one of them. That said, the risk in sexual endeavor is not shared equally any more than in child-birth or child-rearing. And men are not just dicks…so they shouldn’t act that way. I agree, it does take 2 to tango….which is why it absolutely needs to occur only in climates where the needs of both primary parties are considered. Women have been cut out of the conversation. This, in and of itself, is a form of theft and rape. You cannot divorce a human being from their own body for the simple use of it. Thats just nasty.
Woosty’s still a Cat
The doctors did the right thing. Killing a life to try and save a life is not right. Innocent life is to be protected. Unfortunately for this mom she passed away. With her leukemia no one knows how long she would have lived or if the baby itself would have been healthy. I will say this, God’s wrath will come for all of the MILLIONS of innocent babies that have been taken through abortion. I just hope and pray I am not here when it happens.
Jim,
So Do I (that you depart quickly).
It was too good to resist. Are you taking lessons from Tom Friedman?
@Jim….. people like you are the reason for these idiotic laws. Get rid of that fictional BS called religion and the world will be a much better place. With that said, I have no problem with you believing whatever you so desire, just don’t try to force it on everyone else in the world. Killing people to abide by your religious beliefs is murder, plain and simple.
Jim, You need to study a bit of biology. A zygote is not a baby. A morula is not a baby. A blastocyst is not a baby. An embryo is not a baby. It is an embryo until it is born.
There are lots of websites that claim “your baby” begins at conception, but they are emotional pleas for a woman to bond with the handful of cells that have the potential of becoming a baby.
Even the bible indicates the “breath of life”. And that a fetus is not of the same value as the life of the woman who is pregnant.
David Blauw,
You are a veritable charm troll, in the Swedish meaning of troll. Loved your “letter is important” thingy.
bettykath
At conception life begins. It may not be able to live on its own but it is life. within 3-4 weeks the heart begins to beat. Destroying that is destroying that which will become a human being. Without getting an abortion debate, more women have one due to economic reasons and not for health reasons. This is the part of the debate that if facts were properly given many would be disappointed.
Does this god ever speak for itself? And why did this invisible god create such flawed bodies that the supposedly sublimely natural act of making babies could actually result in the death of the mom. This is one helluva impotent god that can’t even speak for itself.
Jim,
You make my point. ” that which will become a human being” It isn’t. It just has potential.
If you want to get rid of abortions, as I do, it might be more productive to get rid of the reasons for the unwanted pregnancy than from the a.. end of the result by just refusing the abortion.
Economic reasons for an abortion are legitimate. A woman who cannot afford to feed and clothe a child is being responsible in having an abortion. Eliminating that which may become a child is responsible. If you want her to change her mind, how about working to improve the economic status of women in her situation? Work for more jobs. Work for equal pay for women – they still make less than 80 cents for each man making $1. Work for readily available means of contraception.
Oh, bet you didn’t mean the woman who already has children and can’t afford another but the student or career woman who isn’t ready to have the responsibility of a child. How about working for more child care facilities in colleges and corporations? How about working for more parenting classes? How about working to keep Planned Parenthood well funded in providing all those services that women need which account for at least 80% of their work.
And wtf is your rationale for insisting that victims of rape or incest be required to carry a fetus to term? Yes, the wtf is hostile, but so is the rationale that a woman be required to endure reminders of the violation of her body for nine months.
There are many options before denying a woman the right to make her own decisions about her body.
Jim, good for you! Having a strong opinion on something that will never affect you or happen to you. wow, that takes courage to decide for all women and their doctors on a condition that you, yourself, will never ever experience. what a coward you are. An ideologue with no knowledge of biology or the human condition.
You think a handful of cells is the same as an infant? Even the Bible dissagrees with you. There was no penalty for causing a woman to abort in the Bible- and as you know, the Bible has lots of punishments for all sorts of acts,
We could care less about your ‘holy’ books or ideology. when you know something about biology or humanity let me know! Because when abortion was illegal, women died. And if it become illegal again, women will die. This young teen died for your principals, isn’t that enough? do you want to see this happen in the US?
why not face the facts, you are an inhumane man. One who cares nothing about women or children or the health of these creatures you consider to be less than you, a real man, right?
I bet even you would have an abortion under some of the same circumstances most women decide to have an abortion.
It is an old story, the ‘right to lifers’ getting abortions because they are the ‘exception”. then they oppose the morning after pill and birth control. They use this ideology to continue to force women to have a surgical procedure instead of having access to RU- 486. These people are nuts. Like you, they deny science and cause massive suffering all over the world.
bettykath
Women who can’t afford children should simply not have sex. Plain and simple. An abortion only holds the child accountable for the mother’s weakness.
shano
Show me one place in the Bible where a baby was aborted.
Science is a systematic knowledge of the physical or material universe gained by observable facts. The sacred writings of all world religions basically contain a system of faith. Yet each do make statements within the province of science that provides a uniquely valid test to prove their authenticity. If their scientific observations are in reality superstitions reflective of the culture in which they were written, these so called sacred books are disqualified as the inspired Scripture of God. If, indeed, the scientific observations of any of these purported Holy Scripture agree with the facts of science today, then that Bible is the inspired Word of a true and living God. Why? The Creator and God of the universe is the God of science — the author of the scientific laws that govern His universe. Only the God of science could cause scientific facts to be recorded in a book —the Bible — hundreds or thousands of years before scientists discover them.
For thousands of years people believed the earth was flat. If one went too far, he would fall over the edge. This was taught in both Hindu and Buddhist scripture. In the 1500s, the first ship sailed around the world. This proved the earth was round. But the round earth was recorded in the Judeo-Christian Bible long before man discovered it in the 1500s.
The prophet Isaiah (40:22) spoke of the “circle of the earth.” Solomon wrote, “He [God] set a compass [circle] upon the face of the deep.” Proverbs 8:27. In our century, Arabs spoke of infidels being pushed over the edge into space. About 3,000 years ago, our Bible said the earth was round. This was not discovered until 500 years ago. Indeed, the Judeo-Christian Bible is the inspired Word of God.
Much more could be given as proof, Shano.
The earth being round is an easy deduction to make just by looking at the freaking round moon and extrapolating that to earth. That is not proof of anything. I want the real science — all the science about pathogens being the cause of events like the plague…and not born of the devil. Where’s the science of plastics, of sophisticated transportation, of vaccines, etc. in the bible? It’s a tome reflective of the dearth of information of its time. Period. Any soothsaying in the bible can be attributed to the fact the people do tend to make guesses about the future…some predictions are accurate, and some are not. People living then did not corner the market on predictions.
Oh yes, the Bible also states the Earth is 6,000 years old. That mixing cotton with linen is a sin, that women should be stoned for infidelity. It takes two to tango, as they say, why no punishment for the men who are unfaithful? You apply to a stone age myth, part history, part culture, part nonsense- used to subjugate and enslave people around the world. Slavery is good social policy according to God in your view.
Shakespeare once wrote, “the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.”
That said, the Old Testament is full of passages that support capital punishment, often for relatively mild offenses:
- Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
- Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16)
- Breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14 & 15)
- Disobedient children (Exodus 21:15 & 17; Leviticus 20:9)
- Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13)
- Not being a virgin on your wedding night (but only if you’re a woman – Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
The Bible supports killing all these people for these offenses. thank god we are more civilized than this!
Or the science based – Gods own cure for leprosy being 2 turtle doves some water and a prayer . that works so well!
In the OT it says that a man who causes a woman to lose a baby must be fined. There is no mention of it in the NT that I can find. Abortion or rather the anti abortion stance is hard to pin down to a specific scripture – it falls under the thou shalt not kill thing and is backed up by a municipal level fine in the book of either Deut or Exodus (no longer sure). You are the Bible expert. You can find this scripture leveling fines as well as I can.
Tell me Jim, why is there no punishment for causing an abortion other than a fine? When a disobedient child must be killed?
Jim, a post just for you from ‘Religious tolerance’
Exodus 21:22 If men strive [fight] an hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit [fetus] depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
One source comments that because some Bible translations (KJV, RSV) use the phrase “woman with child” that God considers a fetus to be a human child. 3 But other translations render the phrase simply as “pregnant woman” and make no direct reference to the fetus.
This verse describes a situation in which a man, who is fighting another man, accidentally hits a pregnant woman, and causes a termination of her pregnancy. The following verse, 23, explains that if the woman died, the guilty man would be executed by the state. The accidental killing of a woman under these circumstances was considered a capital offense, because she was a human person.
Verse 22 is confusing. The key Hebrew word “yatsa” literally means to “lose her offspring.” 4 This has been translated in different Bible versions as:
A miscarriage: This would imply that the fetus died immediately as a direct result of the accident. Assuming no further harm happens (e.g. that the woman does not die), the man responsible would have to pay at a fine. The amount would be set by her husband and approved by the judges. This would imply that the death of the fetus was not considered to be the death of a human person. If it were, then the man responsible would be tried for murder and executed. However, because the fetus had possible future economic worth to the father, he would have to be reimbursed for his loss.
premature birth: This implies that the fetus is born earlier than full term. Assuming no further harm happens (e.g. that neither the woman nor the baby dies) then the man would pay a fine. One possible interpretation of this passage would be that if the premature baby died, then the man responsible had killed a human person, and would be tried for murder. The verse is ambiguous at this point.
The New International Version of the Bible uses the phrase: “gives birth prematurely.” and offers “miscarriage” as an alternative translation in a footnote. These two options result in totally opposite interpretations: one supporting the pro-choice faction; the other supporting the pro-life movement.
Some liberal theologians reject this interpretation. 5 They point out that this passage appears to have been derived from two earlier Pagan laws, whose intent is quite clear:
Code of Hammurabi (209, 210) which reads: “If a seignior struck a[nother] seignior’s daughter and has caused her to have a miscarriage [literally, caused her to drop that of her womb], he shall pay ten shekels of silver for her fetus. If that woman had died, they shall put his daughter to death.”
Hittite Laws, (1.17): “If anyone causes a free woman to miscarry [literally, drives out the embryo]-if (it is) the 10th month, he shall give 10 shekels of silver, if (it is) the 5th month, he shall give 5 shekels of silver…” The phrase “drives out the embryo” appears to relate to a miscarriage rather than to a premature birth.
Author Brian McKinley, a born-again Christian, sums the passage up with: “Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence — it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death.” 4
Exodus 22:29″Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.” Many Old Testament theologians believe that this is another remnant of the time when the ancient Hebrews and Canaanites ritually murdered their first son, sacrificing him to their god.
Jim:
” I will say this, God’s wrath will come for all of the MILLIONS of innocent babies that have been taken through abortion. I just hope and pray I am not here when it happens.”
*********************
Let’s see? God will punish innocents for the sins of other people because God is upset that other people punished “innocents.”
Jim, Jim, do you see how silly this is? A fetus is a human being like an acorn is an oak tree.
If a fertilized egg is a human being, then I think that any woman who is of child-bearing years and whom the state cannot prove is UNPREGNANT at any one time is entitled to full health, food and other benefits for the dependent human being she is housing at any given time because obviously that dependent human being is a dependent upon HER. She should have the tax benefits of that human being, plus ALL MEDICAL CARE, plus food stamps, etc., unless she is so wealthy that she falls ABOVE the guidelines for top one percent AND does not have income sufficient to meet TWICE HER MONTHLY BUDGET each month.
How’s that? Anything else is discriminatory.
Yes, Malisha, if the state is going to force women to carry a pregnancy to term, they should be responsible for that dependent. In fact, they should be giving the woman a Uterus rental fee each month in addition to caring for the person occupying that uteri space.
Could we get some depreciation also? A tax attorney could figure out all the details I am sure……
Nothing like a discussion of women’s right to privacy and the ability to make her own decisions to bring out the misogynists. Fortunately, there aren’t many of them here.
Well I’m glad they saved the life of that innocent baby.
Oh, wait…
Malisha,
A most excellent plan. As for myself, every time somebody like Jim starts preaching at me, I usually ask them how many of those kids they have adopted. Put their money where their mouth is. We did. Usually shuts them up….at least from preaching at me.
Woosty, my bad. Sorry. I can only plead lack of caffene and the early hour when I answered you!
Kraaken, I take my caffeine in tablet form, as the truckers do, so I can be ready at any moment to answer something Woosty says.
Boy. After reading some of the responses here (Jim springs to mind), I had to check the day and then slap myself just to make sure I hadn’t time-traveled back to the Southern Baptist sunday school of my roots. The fact that there are people in this world who espouse such bovine-feces is truly frightening. I have two sisters and their families who do and, needless to say, I see them as little as possible. I have always been so glad that I saw through the BS early enough in life not to have been tainted with it. The kind of god that Jim apparently believes in is anathema to any rational being. But then, how could ANY rational being swallow such tripe? Jim, go handle your snakes and let the rest of us deal with concepts which are FAR above your ken.
Jim is a Ryan guy, a fertilized egg is a person.
I guess like a corporation is a person.
Like it or not a fertilized sgg is a parasite, it cannot live on its own and takes from the woman whose womb it is inhabiting.
Jim you blame the woman, just dont have sex, hard to do when it is your father, uncle brother, forcing himseif on you, or the man in a black mask who steals into your room or corners you on a dark street and rapes you.
Hard to do when, like one of my sisters, a back xray was taken thru the abdomen at an unknow 6 weeks of pregnancy. She was told she had to have an abotiron because the fetus was so damaged, in fact so damaged they would not tell her the sex so she would not fantasize about what that fetus might have become had it become a person.
My mother had to go before a male judge, a non medical person, and lay bare her medical and psychiatric history in order to get permission for an abortion (which was given)
I know women who have gone to the back alleys. Thankfully no one I knew had to resort to a wire hanger.
I have a feeling Jim if the woman was your wife, sister, nieve a female that you loved and cared about suddenly her welfare would be placed above that if a fetus.
You dont want an abortion fine. your female friends, relatives don;t want one fine too but you have no right to dictate to other women, unless you wanto to attend the funerals, adopt the babies, pay for the 18 plus years, etc.
Typinig is fine, reality is a whole different ball of wax.
Kraaken, I recently had a cup of coffee with an intellectual who holds two advanced degrees (law and medicine) and has professional membership with honors in probably a dozen of those smartness societies. I, meanwhile, have no college degree at all and went to a public high school where the most significant thing they taught was the date of the war of 1812. And he asked me, “Why do people become so religious?” And I nearly fell off my chair but it was one of those tall chairs like they have in the high-class coffee shops so I saved myself and started in on an educated guesswork answer (I actually know some people who have turned to religious extremism even after having been raised normal!).
I said, “When I’m really scared, when I’m really hurt, I really want to have a good daddy to turn to. If I don’t have one, but I can get one just by believing in god, I’m likely to do THAT, in a pinch.”
He took another sip of his caffeinated beverage and commented, “Yes but all that NONSENSE and the obsessive stuff you have to DO!”
Jim,
Women who can’t afford children should not be having sex…… How about the male having sex should be able to support the child produced or they should not be having sex……. What generation are you living in…..
Mespo,
Thanks……You’re my hero…….
Malisha, ” the most significant thing they taught was the date of the war of 1812″ LOL
If the only way to not have an unwanted pregnancy is with abstinence due to no contraception being affordable or available and with abortion not being an option, and with guys like Jim saying if you don’t want kids don’t have sex who are the guys going to have sex with? With such control issues and egos, all that’s left is themselves. So put in an extra bathroom and have fun, guys.
Anonymously Yours
I agree. Men should not be having sex if they are not married and even then if they have no plans on taking care of their children.
leejcaroll
A corporation is made up of people. Your argument is like saying “you didn’t build that” one of Obama’s biggest mistakes. Would you say a partnership if two people? How about a one man business is a person?
Of course Jim another misrepresentation What the president said was you did not build it alone, you needed roads, water, electricity, things that you do not do all by your lonesome. But hey, what is truth if it interferes with your preconceptions (oh a little pun there I guess)
Leejcaroll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng
Listen carefully, He said if you have a business, you didn’t build that somebody else made that happen.
Jim, sorry, but anyone who would deny human sexuality in this modern age is a zealot who is so out of touch with human reality that any ideas they have should be dismissed out of hand. Yes, everyone should just be celibate- just like the Catholic Priests!
And we all know how that story turns out… They start abusing little boys and orphans for sexual gratification.
The result of this totalitarian denial and repression of human sexuality is always perversion.
Malisha, you are living proof that all of the degrees in the world don’t impart either knowledge or wisdom. You stated that you have no degrees (but you DO remember the War of 1812!), but as far as knowledge and wisdom, you put to shame those who DO.
Otteray Scribe: “… Then after birth, people like Paul Ryan and his teabagger supporters have no interest in helping that child have good health or a good education.”
_______
Pat Robertson agrees with you. I somehow feel he has the same attitude about American children.
Jim 1, August 18, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Leejcaroll
….youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng
Listen carefully, He said if you have a business, you didn’t build that somebody else made that happen.
——————-
You need to listen carefully. You’ve taken one phrase out of context. He gave several examples of things that helped the successful business person – a teacher, a bridge, a road, etc. The successful business person did NOT build the bridge or the road or any number of other things that the business person uses in order to be successful. His error was in using a pronoun when he need to use a noun so people like you wouldn’t be able to take it out of context.
To give credit: you at least posted the video that gave context and not an edited version.
Jim and his adherents (secret ones here),
What BettyKath said.
PLUS
Twentyfive percent of all successfully implanted foeti end as miscarriages. Whom should we accuse for those spontaneous abortions?
How about the egg who says: “Nah, none of you guys will get to do me.”
Women can produce many children, just not the one they don’t want to have.
The girls in our class on evolutional biology were very gladdened by the news that some species of birds can eject the semen package if they wish after coitus. The next mutation to be hoped for????
Do I need to go on???
Word Press is a lousy system.
I asked it what’s new. It delivers Betty Kath’s comment to Jim. NO MORE than that. NO OTHER COMMENTS.
I comment. See above.
My comment is shown and the info is updated.
Roll up as my comments block me under the considerable time it takes me to comment to see if any posts have come in.
I find MANY comments (35?) that were WITHHELD and not displayed after my request for an update. All posted after BettyKath’s and prior to mine.
This is about the tenth time this has happened to me.
Guess it is best not to complain. Each attempt at betterment results in a screwier system with these debuggers..
Jim,
SAID:
“Show me one place in the Bible where a baby was aborted.”
Well, the NT says God goes around inseminating virgins. So what happened to all the other babies which were not delivered in his name? Did you and your ilk forbid those abortions?
Nah, women had rights in those days. We did not have a Congress then.
Jim,
The Bible (OT) is not 3,000 years old. It was first written down in about 400 BC.
The results of an Israel king who needed support for fooling his folks to follow him into war. So the priests discovered “ancient documents” in the temple proving his assertions. Or so I have read from a book written by two Israeli scientists, one a historian, if you can call that a science. Another example of priestly cooperation with secular power, and their lack of integrity.
The proof of a round earth was done by a greek in about 400 BC. Which I have commented and declared before.
And do you think God needs your feeble voice to defend his sacred words? Such hubris or stupidity, take your pick. Where are your priestly garments. Your halo for the day. Which style now, oh priest?
No, you use superstition to defend your hatred of women.
Kraaken,
said:
“The kind of god that Jim apparently believes in is anathema to any rational being. But then, how could ANY rational being swallow such tripe?”
That may be rhetorical but inspired me to a (holy?) realization:
These people never got “right” with Jesus. Their carrying of their sins burden them so that they need other “worse” sinners to plague in order to ease their pains.
This devil uses their words, having rejecting them at 10 years of age, and falling for Jesus at 25 years.
Been there, done that.
Say hello to them from me. Satan, we know thy face.
I can create my own Bible phrases. Inspired by???
“”The girls in our class on evolutional biology were very gladdened by the news that some species of birds can eject the semen package if they wish after coitus. The next mutation to be hoped for????”"
Idealist, if you believe a certain Republican senate hopeful from Missouri, women already have this ability.
In cases of rape, the candidate (I did not catch his name) said that, nearly verbatim, in cases of rape or non-consensual sex women’s bodies have the ability to go ahead and shut down those pregnancies before they happen.
Evolution at work!
Jim BettyKath got there before me. listen to the click you posted, he mentioned teachers,, American system, as well as roads, etc. but you need to keep your blinders on. You are like Romney and Ryan for sure, they hold onto their lies, distortions, exaggerations, removal of context because they have nothing else.
if you knew abortion was illegal and having sex can cause pregnancy which would hinder treatment why did she put herself in that position by having sex in the first place…..I would die before i ever abort a child even if it mean that i might die even if raped….no way never….If you don’t want to get pregnant don’t have sex its that simple don’t complicate it with excuse or “things happen” truth is so much simpler its people that are difficult
sorry to interrupt here but all of this is bs.. some of you know others may just be learning but the 1% are hell bent on DEPOPULATION so abortions are the best thing going for them. its all a smoke screen. in this case they got rid of 2 at one time. the fetus and its mother..
it sounds harsh but so is depopulation using medicines, legal killings by the corportation formerly known as the government and especially law enforcement
Michelle Myers Shirley;
I’m putting your lovely, heartland, compassionate Christian countenance right next to the word “sanctimonious” in my dictionary. You have a keen grasp of what others should do — even 16-year-olds in other countries. I’m glad in your world only the sinful make mistakes and that they must pay for it with their lives since they “put themselves in that position.” I’m also amazed at your firm confidence that you would never do something regardless of circumstances.
Let’s play your game: You’re a single parent with three kids under age 10 and no support group around. You’ve been gang raped as you came home from the store one day, impregnated, and your obstetrician tells you that the rape was so traumatic that if you go full term you have an 80% chance of death from hemorrhage even with a Caesarian. If you die, your three other kids become orphans and thus wards of the state and dispersed to foster homes. Since you live in one of those god-fearing Midwestern states you know welfare in the form of payments to foster care parents is a pittance and your kids will likely suffer.
Still sure about what you would do there sainted one?
Only the fool and fanatic are certain!
Michelle I ditto mespo and add and if the pregnancy was a result of incest, thats okay by you too I imagine; since a 16 year old, below the age of consent, in most Us states (maybe all, I do not know) becomes pregnant as a result of statutory rape thats ok too. I also imagine from where you sit your judgement on her – how horrendous she got pregnant, this slut who decided to have sex, and if death was the result well heck, should never have had relations in the first place, even if forced upon her is fine. I would venture a guess however if it was you or your child (but you don’t seem to understand the concept of empathy or apparently have it) you would not find it so okay.