Transgender Person Alleges Discrimination For Being Asked To Leave Women’s Locker Room After Genitalia To Young Girls

There is an interesting case out of Olympia, Washington where a transgender person is alleging discrimination after being asked to leave the women’s locker room due to his exposing himself to young girls. In a case that is likely to become more common with the expanded rights for transgender individuals, the question is whether schools should bar such exposure in areas with young children or teens.

The incident occurred at Evergreen State College where a 45-year-old male student, who dresses as a woman and goes by the name Colleen Francis, was naked in the women’s locker room. Young girls use the facility from the nearby Olympia High School and a local swimming club. The mother of a 17-year-old girl complained about Francis walking around naked with his genitals exposed and a female swim coach confronted him as he lay  sprawled out and exposed in a sauna used by the girls. She asked him to leave and called police. However, she later apologized when she discovered that he was a transgender person. The local district attorney also declined criminal charges because he felt the “criminal law is very vague in this area.”

Francis is alleging discrimination and complained that “[t]his is not 1959 Alabama . . We don’t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.”

I am not convinced by the analogy, however. While I agree with the prosecutor’s view of the murky legal standard, it seems that the college and city would have a legitimate interest in barring such exposure to young girls in such shared areas. Obviously the best solution is a separate locker room but that might impose high financial and logistical challenges. If someone is still anatomically male, it presents a legitimate concern for parents. While this is a college, it is common for such facilities to be shared with local schools.

What do you think?

Source: KIROTV

78 thoughts on “Transgender Person Alleges Discrimination For Being Asked To Leave Women’s Locker Room After Genitalia To Young Girls

  1. Your confusion regarding your gender identity is not the State’s emergency.

    An inability to reconcile your body with your mind is an illness by definition; thus the reason you put your sex change procedures on your medical insurance.

    Learn how to cope until your sex change is complete.

  2. Transfolks are not “confused” about their gender. Their born with genitals that aren’t a match with who they are. The story is crudely reported and it’s unclear whether the defendant has any documentation of being trans. Exposure as opposed to say, tumescence, seem like different issues for consideration.A 17 year old = young girl—not sure that’s really the best description. Evergreen State is a very liberal college, a sortof public version of Oberlin. Not quite the same thing as this happening at a local Y.

  3. She should have used a bit of common sense. If that means that she doesn’t use certain facilities, so be it. Maybe by checking to find out when the girls would be using the facilities and then using them at a different time would have helped.

  4. I’m going to go with the “discretion is the better part” arguments against. I’m a supporter of the LGBT community, but when it comes to facilities issues like this, the separate but equal argument simply fails. If you are gender transient.transgendered, use the facility appropriate to your hardware. It’s simple common sense.

  5. I think it causes some confusion, but there are some “christian” women who are looking to get unnecessarily outraged. I like what Joe Biden said the other day about the discrimination.

  6. Gene,
    There is a problem, even with your solution. How would most women feel if they went into the restroom, only to encounter Buck Angel.? This is Buck’s upper half. His hardware on the lower half is still female. It is a real world conundrum faced by transgender folks all the time. Perhaps somebody smarter than me can figure out a solution.

    Here is a photo of Buck Angel. Maybe some of our women bloggers will have a suggestion.

  7. There is of course the social view which GeneH espouses. I agree with that as the best solution.

    I would rather however seek an ultimate high ground where exposure of the human genitalia in both tumescencent and non-tumescent form is not a subject of concern for children. I don’t know if you permit naked babies on the beachs there, but it is related to that.

    Genitals have an everyday function (urination) which can be understood by a child at any age. How one explains the consideration of the public’s requirement remains to the family to decide.

    I think that the exposure of naked Adam and Eve with figleafs was a sick sight. Had God not intended them to reproduce in the Garden of Eden? The whole legend is ridiculous and related to our prudities today, which serve us poorly.

  8. Otteray,

    How about an wristband which is in a checkboarded black-white pattern. Meaning; “My mind is clear, it is just my body that I am changing. The guess is yours to make for awhile yet.”

  9. OS,

    I was thinking primarily of waist down hardware as, unlike this particular scenario, most public restrooms are just that and not a locker room. While Buck’s appearance with pants could cause some consternation in a women’s bathroom, in a strip down environment like a locker room (or upon investigation by authorities in a non-strip down environment) the proper resolution to the issue would be . . . um . . . evident. In a plain bathroom scenario where there are often stalls and plumbing issues that will de facto often “self-segregate” or provide a modicum of privacy, a locker room is a situation where specific genitalia holding sway over choice I don’t think presents a substantive problem. Until society outgrows the really rather silly division of plumbing access by sex – which is purely rooted in Puritanical prudishness – I don’t see another viable solution other than separate TG facilities and that? That smacks of separate water fountains and a black counter. Do you see any other solution? I think what I said was pragmatic, but that being said, I would like to hear from a transgendered reader their take on the separate facilities issue. I’ve only ever met a few TG individuals and this topic never came up, but for me, if I were in that situation, I would find the separate but equal treatment personally offensive as a purely ethical matter.

  10. How about the people with a penis use the locker room with other people that have penis, and the people who have a vagina use the locker room with other people that have a vagina?

  11. Not sure what to do about cases involving persons who are anatomically ambiguous. But, for those like the transsexual in the story who are fully, anatomically male or female, then they don’t belong in the opposite sex dressing room.

  12. I believe we’re more likely to have a transgender reader here than say a black, Hispanic, reader. This group here seems to be pretty Caucasian from what I can tell.

  13. “Your confusion regarding your gender identity is not the State’s emergency.
    An inability to reconcile your body with your mind is an illness by definition; thus the reason you put your sex change procedures on your medical insurance. Learn how to cope until your sex change is complete.”

    I must agree with Bob and Gene on this issue. Also:

    “a female swim coach confronted him as he lay sprawled out and exposed in a sauna used by the girls”

    I can’t tell how many times I’ve used a locker room in my life but is must be in the thousands. Generally, while of course guys are seen naked all the time, especially remembering the boys shower in high school, very rarely does one expose their genitalia more than necessary. Even in saunas people generally use a towel. That this trans-gender was exposing themself, implies if the story was accurate, that this was flaunting. I would think that most trans-gender people who haven’t been fully transformed would be more reticent. Knowing the wide range of sexuality that exists in humans this could also be a perfect excuse for an exhibitionist. My guess is that there was something in this person’s activity that had an agenda beyond their gender dimorphism.

    I’ve been a supporter of LBGT causes since before Stonewall. Also as a younger, single man I used to frequent nude beaches and I don’t believe that being naked is in any way shameful. However, I’ve always felt that we should respect others sexual reticence, providing they don’t try to impose their puritanism in return. I this instance I suspect that this person had decided to make a point of their condition and so I think it was an act of bad faith.

  14. We, on this blog, have a way to go in understanding transgender. The headline identifies her as “he”, as have most of the posters. Imo, I agree with MikeS, she was trying to make a point. A towel while in the sauna would have been prudent. She used bad judgement. I don’t think separate facilities are necessary, but common sense and a bit of modesty in such situations are.

  15. Having made your committment, going into the men’s sauna with a pair of big breasts would be quite a challenge. But discreet use of a towel would solve both problems: wrong genitals and right gender. He/she must learn to be modest, as women always are.

  16. bettykath,
    I caught that “he” in the headline as well, but did not comment on it. My bad. Sins of omission are just as bad as sins of commission in many cases. I agree with you. A person should be referred to by the gender they prefer. I think to fail to do so is as disrespectful as if I called you “Ralph,” which is not your chosen username. It is all a matter of respect.

  17. Gene H. 1, November 2, 2012 at 10:16 am

    … use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
    That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. ;)

  18. Bron 1, November 2, 2012 at 10:38 am


    you are one crazy dude [in a good way].
    I be woikin’ on it bro.

  19. Gene, Dredd, “… use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
    That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. ;)

    I disagree. She should be able to use the women’s bathroom and he should be able to use the men’s bathroom, regardless of “hardware”. All women’s bathrooms have stalls, so do the men’s bathrooms that I have seen.

    The women’s locker rooms I have been in provide meaningful privacy for those who prefer it. Men seem to have a need to show it all, so I’m not sure how it should be handled there but use of a towel might help.

  20. There are a lot of reasonable observations on this thread. My view is that the penis/vagina distinction is probably the most sensible, and sensitive, solution.

  21. Confused, tumescent or otherwise, exposed male genitalia have no place in a women’s locker room. I can’t believe that people think the only problem here is the presence of little girls, nor the coach who actually apologized to this exhibitionist idiot.

  22. First of all, I kinda doubt Buck Angel would hang out naked and splayed in a public sauna.. except maybe on a porn set. Second of all, I would be fine with Buck being in the women’s change room.

  23. I see a lot of opinions, but know some transgender folks, and this is not a joking matter. Some have been beaten and several killed, and not just over bathroom usage. Rather than “hardware” as Gene put it, I think it is a matter of identity. Imagine a beautiful full busted person transgender woman wearing makeup and a dress going into a men’s room. This picture is of the transgender woman who entered the Miss Universe-Canada beauty contest.

    Or someone who looks like Buck Angel in motorcycle leathers entering the ladies room. Somebody is going to get hurt or killed.

    A bathroom is not a locker room. There are major differences, and I am not sure of the solution. I am old fashioned, I suppose, but as far as I am concerned, modesty should prevail. No one needs to “advertise.”

  24. bettykath 1, November 2, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Gene, Dredd, “… use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
    That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. ;)

    I disagree. She should be able to use the women’s bathroom and he should be able to use the men’s bathroom, regardless of “hardware”.
    For you bettykath, Ode To Thuh Hardware and Software:

  25. Colleen Francis really has nothing to complain about in my opinion. Nobody who asked her to leave or who called the police realized she was a woman; it was quite natural for them to presume she was not, given the evidence, which she seemed to want to display. Women and particularly young women and girls expect to be able to relax in a women’s locker room; they may NOT feel particularly relaxed with a person in there — regardless of that person’s individual medical or psychiatric background or history — displaying any penis, whether it is “his penis” or “her penis.” It’s common sense.

    I think Francis was looking for something to complain of. I know someone who went to Evergreen; sorry it had to have happened there, of course. I must say that if I was 17 it would have shocked me to see a 45-year-old penis-bearing person relaxing nude in my school’s locker room.

  26. As the open member of the LGTB community here, I have to agree with Gene, Bob, and Mike. Until the re-assignment surgery has been successfully completed, the set of genitalia one posses should be the guideline. The fact that we are having to have this discussion is proof that, in the final analisys, we remain the puritans that the more enlightened societies claim we are.

  27. Guess I was kinda enlightened when in ’63 picked up a charismatic redhead who turned out to be a complete transexual. Have told the tale here before.

    Compassion however was no replacement for passion, and the couple could not couple due to my lack of enthusiasm. We slept well the night out.
    One does not throw a lady out on the streets of LA at one AM.

    As for this person who is halfway, I would suggest abstaining until the trick is complete. As I said earlier, coming into the mens’ sauna with a fine pair of boobs and the nether half of a man might cause problems for all, except the enlightened.

  28. Kraaken,
    This is not a Gay/Lesbian issue because they do not have to “pass.” Transgender people have a much more complex set of problems. I do agree with those who object to the exhibitionist element of the specific case at hand. That should never have happened. That kind of thing adds to problems trannies already have, as if they need more problems. I have a gay grandson and he uses the men’s room. No problem there. The lesbian women I know use the ladies room with no problem. What about sexual ambiguity people? Are we telling them to just hold it until they get home?

  29. Wow, you’re willfully sleazy, Jonathan. You know her pronouns and choose not to use them. I’m not going to engage further with someone who spits on basic honorifics, and it’s really sad to see how someone who claims to love liberty responds on the chief civil rights issue of our time.

    Just as a cis woman shouldn’t need a transvaginal ultrasound to have access to basic human rights, a trans woman shouldn’t need a vaginoplasty for same.

    For shame.

  30. As the open member of the LGTB community here, I have to agree with Gene, Bob, and Mike. Until the re-assignment surgery has been successfully completed, the set of genitalia one posses should be the guideline. The fact that we are having to have this discussion is proof that, in the final analisys, we remain the puritans that the more enlightened societies claim we are.

    By which you mean, a cis person who has sex with other cis people feels as though they have some authority to comment on trans issues. The Uruguayans and New Mexicans don’t base basic human rights on surgical status, and that you feel doing so is in any way progressive is contemptible at best.

  31. for those who argue that ‘until reassignment surgery is successfuly completed, the set of genitalia one possesses should be the guileline’, I see your point, but we need to also consider the guidelines that those folk contemplating reassignment surgery have to follow – i.e., that they are required to live as whatever sex they are transitioning to without regard to what physical equipment they still have (or not). I’m not saying that the sex change police are going to follow someone who’s preop around to make sure that they ALWAYS use the correctly gendered restroom, facilities, etc – but it seems to me that we’re imposing requirements upon the transgendered without making sure the resources to meet those requirements are available.

  32. OS

    I disagree with the attorney’s view that the case for hate crimes is weak. It was reported here that the boy friend of the girls had hit upon the white girl and and commented on her. The black girl assailants may have taken this as a racial slur, ie her refusal. That racial component and the probable hatred of sexual “perversion” in their eyes are enough to make
    them act so hatefully.

    Thanks for the post.

  33. Valerie,

    I agree with you use of honorifics. We should say Ms to anyone who feels that they are such a person.

    However diagree with the rest. But no big deal.
    Don’t feel this is the greatest civil rights issue, but maybe the latest. We do have greater ones, one acute one in these days is our disenfranchisement through different methods.

    Secondly, as a person I would feel incomplete with the wrong gender shaped equipment between my legs.
    And not just a matter of mind vs body discrepance. The male impulses to large degree are biologically centered in the testicles, and estrogen or other therapy must not quail all those “male” feelings.

    This lady has troubles giving off female signals. Such are not learned in a year, but in the years when you grow and mature.

    This case grew out of a racially reversed persecution/dominance game going over to a hate explosion amplified by her choice of sex. Abomination in some eyes.

  34. valeriekeefe: “By which you mean, a cis person who has sex with other cis people feels as though they have some authority to comment on trans issues.”

    This is a blawg that respects the First Amendment, anyone can comment on anything, don’t be a comment elitist.

    The issue I see here is that a person with male genitalia was fully exposed in a sauna in a women’s locker room and the possibility was present that high-school age girls could walk in. I was in HS when I was 13 and that would have been a shock to me at the gym/locker room we used. Also, at the gym/locker room/sauna I would attend with my aunt while still HS age.

    Just plain good manners kind of dictate that females with female genitalia don’t walk into male saunas naked where (youngish) boys may be present and males with male genitalia don’t walk naked into the female sauna where (youngish) girls may be present. Identity may complicate that somewhat but didn’t and doesn’t need to be an issue at all as long as she and conversely ,he keeps a towel on.

    The last time I had to look for regs on restroom use in a federal building by federal employees the rule for transgender employees were non-existent, there were, as I recall state guidelines of some sort that, until the reassignment was complete the restroom should match the plumbing. The Office of Personnel Management now has guidance and that guidance for federal employees and restrooms and other sanitary facilities and it seems appropriate:

    “Sanitary and Related Facilities: The Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (DOL/OSHA) guidelines require agencies to make access to adequate sanitary facilities as free as possible for all employees in order to avoid serious health consequences. For a transitioning employee, this means that, once he or she has begun living and working full-time in the gender that reflects his or her gender identity, agencies should allow access to restrooms and (if provided to other employees) locker room facilities consistent with his or her gender identity. While a reasonable temporary compromise may be appropriate in some circumstances, transitioning employees should not be required to have undergone or to provide proof of any particular medical procedure (including gender reassignment surgery) in order to have access to facilities designated for use by a particular gender. Under no circumstances may an agency require an employee to use facilities that are unsanitary, potentially unsafe for the employee, or located at an unreasonable distance from the employee’s work station. Because every workplace is configured differently, agencies with questions regarding employee access to any facilities within an agency should contact OPM for further guidance.”

  35. You know, Mr. Rogers, from “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood,” used to say that courtesy was what you did to make other people feel comfortable. If you just plain KNOW that a bunch of young women are likely to feel uncomfortable while you display your 45-year-old male-looking penis to them in an area where they undress (and in general, feel more vulnerable than when they are fully dressed), well why the hell not avoid that possibility by using some common sense and some modesty. Women generally practice more modesty in public undressing areas than men anyway; go with it.

  36. While a reasonable temporary compromise may be appropriate in some circumstances, transitioning employees should not be required to have undergone or to provide proof of any particular medical procedure (including gender reassignment surgery) in order to have access to facilities designated for use by a particular gender.

    That is my position, and for those of you who haven’t paid much attention, the majority of transitioned trans people are either pre-operative or non-operative.

    And LK, when someone invokes their sexual orientation as authority to speak on trans matters I will point out that that authority is appropriative at best.

  37. Once a woman is living according to her gender identity, she should be able to use the women’s bathroom. I never see the genitalia of other women using public bathrooms. Why would I care if she happened to have a penis?

    A pre-op man could always use the stall. Do men check out the stall to see what’s actually happening there?

    Far less embarrassing all around than for her to look like a woman going into the men’s room or for him to look like a guy and going into the women’s room.

    The woman in this case was not using good judgement. She should have covered her non-female parts.

  38. With all your concerns about LGBT issues, most of the people posting here have completely ignored the fact that some people are exhibitionists – they want to shock, and in the case of children, to corrupt. The fact that this person was laying around displaying their genitalia indicates pretty clearly that that is what this person wanted to do. The real question is: Is it in society’s best interest that middle-aged adults are free to show off their private parts to children? I sincerely hope that no one answers yes to this question.

  39. ,valeriekeefe,

    A rather impassioned defense and one that I think has the right direction, but misses this particular point. A transgender person who in a pre -operative state should certainly be alloeed to use the woman’s bathroom. Not being familiar though with the etiquette of a woman’s bathroom I can only rely on my conversations with women. I slso think I can rely on the informstion supplied by Lotta and Bettykath. In men’s bathrooms there is the availability of stalls and urinals. I’ve never come across anyone displaying their penis and it would be considered the height of impropriety to observe what is going on with a man in the next urinal.

    This incident took place, however, in a Locker Room. This person was behaving in what seems to be an exhibitionist manner, as Shandell rightly pointed out. Some of us who support the LBGT community, and I most certainly have done so for many, many years, confuse the very real oppression with a notion that everyone who has suffered it is ennobled by it. LBGT people are human beings and not all are people of admirable character. In this instance there was an agenda being displayed that was not on its surface a salutory one and certainly not one exhibiting concern for her LBGT sisters and brothers.

  40. Valerie,

    “While a reasonable temporary compromise may be appropriate in some circumstances, transitioning employees should not be required to have undergone or to provide proof of any particular medical procedure (including gender reassignment surgery) in order to have access to facilities designated for use by a particular gender.”

    The vagueness of the first clause up to the comma disturbs me. Obvious perhaps to others, but not to me.
    Completely undefined or specified. By who’s decision, on whose intiative, by what judgement grounds, ets…..! Sounds like “authority” granting itself undefined powers.

  41. Shandell,

    No one has suggested that what this woman did was ok. I would be very offended to find this kind of display in the sauna and outraged to see girls exposed to it. Like all social behavior, certain standards are necessary. In this case, the woman didn’t meet the standards and should have been removed. She should not be allowed back until she understood that exposing her genitals was not acceptable. A second similar display should result in a permanent ban.

    My focus has been on the defense of transgenders using various facilities because it’s so easy to paint all members of an oppressed group with the bad behavior of one member of that group This thread has been an opportunity to discuss the issue of transgenders who have not had the surgery and the problems/possible solutions to the difficulties of having a physical gender that doesn’t match the inner gender. From the posts it is clear that there is no agreement on the issue except that the non-trans population should not be exposed to the genitals of the pre-op transgenders.

    Frankly, I don’t want to see anyone’s genitals except in an up-close and personal interaction or in a nudist area where everyone’s is exposed.

  42. I decided to wait and see what got posted for a day or so before starting to write my own reply.

    In addition to being, per my primary care physician’s medical records, “high functioning autistic,” and “hyperverbal” I happen to be a post-op member of the LGBTTTQQ, or, as some of us may prefer, “genderqueer” community.

    Through the assistance of some folks of national reputation at the University of Chicago Hospitals and the University of Illinois at Chicago Hospital, I have received excellent care and surgery as a member of the openly out transgender-spectrum community, much as I am openly out as a member of the autism spectrum community.

    I was vividly aware of being transgendered while yet in infancy; I am among the people who rejoiced when the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) set aside the biologically-absurdly-sometimey-tragic notion of binary gender in the fall of 2011.

    On the first day of kindergarten, when I arrived at the kindergarten room with my mother, the teacher told me to go to the far end of the room to play with the toys there, which I did. However, on the right were the “good toys,” and on the left were the “bad toys.” Naturally, i went to play with the good toys. Seeing me, the teacher hurried over to me, saying, “No, Brian, those toys are for the girls.”

    In December of 1952, after supper, one sunday, my family went to the living room to listen to the Jack Benny program on the console radio. As was usual, the program started out with a joke told by Don Wilson. He told of taking a trip to Europe, to London, where a man was a man, to Paris, where a woman was a woman, and to Copenhagen, where a man was a woman. The late Christine Jorgensen.

    The audience burst out laughing. I did not. As I wanted to hear the beginning of the program before going upstairs to use the water closet, soon after that joke, I excused myself, went upstairs, used the water closet, and went to my bedroom, which was directly above the living room, and lay down on my bed and cried, and cried, and cried with joy at knowing I was not the only one.

    As for being autistic, folks who are proficient at recognizing autism spectrum people label me as being an autistic savant. Also, brain scan stuff, such as a Quantitative Electroencephalogram (QEEG) show that my brain activity is that of a prodigy, in that I have and use significant Long Term Workikng Memory (LTWM) in my work as a bioengineer doing theoretical biology as a method of unriddling the relationship between the infant-child-discontinuity, trauma as neurological injury, and human destructiveness as it takes the forms of child abuse and human war mongering.

    My participation on the Turley blog has been an aspect of the field work method I do in my bioengineering-based research into public safety aspects of the structure(s) of human society.

    Having attended the Fall Conference of the Erikson Institute for Education and Research of the Austen Riggs Center, in Stockbridge, Massacchusetts on October 12-13, 2012, it has become sufficiently clear to me that the work I have done for decades, which led to my doctorate in Bioengineering from the University of Illinois at Chicago, has sufficiently come to fruition as to allow me, in accord with the Code of Ethics of the National Society of Professional Engineers, to set about to petition the Wisconsin Supreme Court for a change in the Supreme Court rules to remove the effects of trauma, as time-corrupted learning, from due process in Wisconsin.

    In a way that somewhat resembles Galileo, so the story goes, dropping two objects of similar size and different weights from the “Leaning Tower of Pisa,” and thereby scientifically refuting Aristotelian physics that had stood as dogma for nearly 2000 years in much of Europe, by demonstrating that Aristotelian physics was based on misinformation, the work I have done has demonstrated that the adversarial system, to the extent that it is based on the misinformation that leads people to believe that it is possible for an avoidable mistake to happen is demonstrated as a falsehood my the demonstration of my doctoral research.

    While Galileo undermined a model of an aspect of realty that had lasted for about 2000 years, the basis of the adversarial system, as I sort out the findings of cultural anthropology, apparently predates the Code of Hammurabi by perhaps tens of thousands of years.

    Just as it is possible to demonstrate that two objects of very different weight having insignificant “air resistance” (a seriously anti-scientific term) do not fall in a gravitational field at rates proportional to their weight, so it is possible to demonstrate, as I have repeatedly done, that the actual making of an actually avoidable mistake is observably an apparent absolute impossibility.

    Because I work in accord with the Code of Ethics of the National Society of Professional Engineers, which, summarized as simply as I can summarize it, requires of me in my work that I hold paramount the public safety while working only in areas of my professional competence without deception, i realized that it would be operationally deceptive were I to undermine the adversarial system without first having designed and tested a system that will properly replace it by increasing public safety through reducing the presence of deception in human society.

    That work is now completed to my satisfaction, and I will be informing the Wisconsin Supreme Court of the practical and practicable remedy for the deception that now seems to pervade the practice of law as a profession in Wisconsin.

    Consider the following fair use quotation from Wilson Huhn, “The Five Types of Legal Argument, Second Edition, Carolina Academic Press, 2008, on page 10, to wit:

    ‘For the study of law is not a science. Rules of law are not immutable like laws of nature. Rules of law do not describe objective truth, they reflect subjective intentions The lawyer’s task is not to deduce the law from an unchanging set of firsts principles, but rather to predict how the law will emerge from a number of sources and a welter of conflicting values. As Holmes said, “The prophecies of what the courts will do in fact, and nothing more pretentious, are what I mean by the law.” Law students are not expected to memorize all the rules of law, but are expected to learn how to persuasively argue for a favorable interpretation of the law or for a change in the law.’

    The core of my accomplished and diligently tested work is the making of the law a true science, one based on scientifically demonstrated and apparently scientifically irrefutable findings in the field of the science of biology that is known as neurology.

    For what I find to be the first time in the whole of human existence, it has become possible for the rule of law to become based on what I take to be the most significant of the basis principles of science, the falsifiability of testable hypothesis when and if a scientific hypothesis has been formed upon misinformation not recognized as such.

    The past predicament for the legal profession, and the gift of simple decency that I bring to it may perhaps be usefully illustrated by quoting an excerpt from the opinion of Chief Justice Rehnquist, in Daubert, to wit:

    No. 92–102
    on writ of certiorari to the united states court of appeals for the ninth circuit
    [June 28, 1993]

    Chief Justice Rehnquist, with whom Justice Stevens joins, concurring in part and dissenting in part.

    “I defer to no one in my confidence in federal judges; but I am at a loss to know what is meant when it is said that the scientific status of a theory depends on its “falsifiability,” and I suspect some of them will be, too.”

    I have informed some very well qualified research scientists of that view of Chief Justice Rehnquist, with typical responses being some variation of astonishment at the “scientific ignorance” of a Chief Justice, as demonstrated in Rehnquist’s Daubert opinion.

    Good Grief? The method Galileo used to undermine Aristotelian physics was that of null-hypothesis/alternate-hypothesis dichotomy, with demonstration of the falsification of the null hypothesis. The method is centuries old. But the misinformation upon which the adversarial system depends is plauslbly scores of millenia older.

    I am inclined to guess that the complexity of human society with respect to the adversarial system is of functionally unfathomable complexity for anyone not of the high-functioning autistic prodigious savant category.

    My being profoundly transgendered may have put me so far outside any semblance of societal measures-of-central-tendency-based norms, as in folkways and mores, that my only method of survival just may have been unriddling human destructiveness faster than it has been able to destroy me.

    Transgendered? Yes, my bilateral orchiectomy in 1986 was done, finally, to reduce my probability of dying from cancer at an age far younger than I have attained. However, my being profoundly transgendered made that surgery a beautiful experience for me, surgeryI deem likely would be utterly abhorrent for someone not transgendered.

    Testicles gone, Premarin and Provera as replacements, Curviness that simply “feels right” to me. After I arrived at an age that is toward the older limit of menopause, I stopped taking Premarin and Provera and began taking bisphosphonates for osteoporisis control.

    That, finally, leads me to respond to the core question of appropriate conduct for transgendered people. It is up to the person to decide what is personally appropriate, because anything else demeans and degrades transgendered people.

    My personal solution was based on family finances. Clothes cost money, and I had a decent supply of “men”s” clothing at the time of my surgery. So, i simply kept wearing such clothes and never set out to change my birth certificate or other government-issued documents that portend to state my gender. I use the men’s rooms as though I am a man, for I only stopped testosterone and gamete production.

    At a meeting of the Chicago Gender Society, of which I was a member for a number of years, one member once asked me why I did not cross-dress. To which I answered, “What makes you think I am not cross-dressed now?”

    As it happens, there are men with normal testosterone and testicles who have notably greater gynecomastia than I have. Being cross-dressed when I go swimming at the local YMCA, I go topless as do men with gynecomastia.

    I am in no way an exhibitionist, neither do I choose to flaunt who I am as a form of arrogant indecency.

    How do I, as a biologist/bioengineer, account for the gender spectrum? The same way as I account for the autism spectrum. The same way as IA account for the entire human diversity spectrum. Without biological diversity, the human species could never have come to exist.

    The biology is so very simple: “Independent assortment of genotypic and phenotypic traits.”

    Quod Erat Demonstrandum?

    Rev. J. Brian Harris, Ph.D., P.E., NSPE
    Wisconsin Registered Professional Engineer No. 34106-6
    Life Member:
    Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
    National Society of Professional Engineers
    Wisconsin Society of Professional Engineers
    Association for Psychological Science
    Biomedical Engineering Society
    Institute of Biological Engineering

    It is my intended purpose to help people through learning, to the best of my practical ability, what hurts people, so thereby to enable people to learn how to better avoid hurting themselves and others.

  43. Dr Harris,

    You say:
    “…the work I have done has demonstrated that the adversarial system, to the extent that it is based on the misinformation that leads people to believe that it is possible for an avoidable mistake to happen is demonstrated as a falsehood my (sic) the demonstration of my doctoral research.”

    As far as I know I am not a savant, but notice that you have written down to our level today and hope you
    can answer these questions:

    1) life is a competition. If I understand right then adversarial is similar. While Nature is not in any way correct, only one of many ways to develop and exist. the question is what is the alternative to adversarial systems? Or are you thinking only in terms of law?

    2) “…it is possible for an avoidable mistake to happen is demonstrated as a falsehood…”
    We do what we think of as avoidable mistakes daily. How could this be demonstrated as a falsehood.?


    Further I was interested in your study of the effects of “bullying” (can’t find your term to quote) on the physical and thus mental capacity of the brain. Recently this came up here under the headline sticks and stone (can hurt), where to be short, the corpus callosum could be demonstrated as being reduced by “bullying” to students in middle school after reaching ages 18-25. I would hope that you have time to discuss this some time.


    As for your sharing of your gender accomodation, I can say that you again demonstrate the value of knowledge taking the fear out of ignorance.

  44. RE:

    1, November 3, 2012 at 5:27 pm
    Dr Harris,

    You say:
    “…the work I have done has demonstrated that the adversarial system, to the extent that it is based on the misinformation that leads people to believe that it is possible for an avoidable mistake to happen is demonstrated as a falsehood my (sic) the demonstration of my doctoral research.”

    As far as I know I am not a savant, but notice that you have written down to our level today and hope you
    can answer these questions:

    1) life is a competition. If I understand right then adversarial is similar. While Nature is not in any way correct, only one of many ways to develop and exist. the question is what is the alternative to adversarial systems? Or are you thinking only in terms of law?

    2) “…it is possible for an avoidable mistake to happen is demonstrated as a falsehood…”
    We do what we think of as avoidable mistakes daily. How could this be demonstrated as a falsehood.?


    Further I was interested in your study of the effects of “bullying” (can’t find your term to quote) on the physical and thus mental capacity of the brain. Recently this came up here under the headline sticks and stone (can hurt), where to be short, the corpus callosum could be demonstrated as being reduced by “bullying” to students in middle school after reaching ages 18-25. I would hope that you have time to discuss this some time.


    As for your sharing of your gender accomodation, I can say that you again demonstrate the value of knowledge taking the fear out of ignorance.

    * * * * * * *

    Sorry, I do make finger blunder typographical errors, on a blog, I regard them as part of ordinary life (re: your “(sic)”)…

    The notion that life is a competition is a “natural consequence” of interpreting live through a framework based on Cartesian dualism. For a constructive rejoinder regarding Cartesian dualism, the book by neurologist Antonio Damasio, “Decartes’ Error,” (1994) may be informative. Cartesian dualism is an apparently necessary aspect of analytical-reductionist approaches to biology, and that approach has fallen into serious rejection for its inadequacies in accounting for biological phenomena accurately. the basis of analytical reductionism is to be found in Newtonian physics and its predecessors, and does not allow for accurately accounting for relativistic and quantum mechanical aspects of recent observations in biology.

    The alternative to analytical reductionism is relational holism, which I find vastly better accounts for biological phenomena from biological minutae to very large system aspects of biological organism and organism-substrate interaction phenomena.

    I believe that “holism” was coined by Jan Christiaan Smuts, and I find it to be much of the essence of his book, “Holism and Evolution,” MacMillian, 1926.

    From Smuts, op.cit, page 1, “The old mechanical view-points persist, and Natural Selection itself has come to be looked upon as a mere mechanical factor. But this is wrong: Sexual selection is admittedly a psychical factor, and even Natural Selection has merely the appearance of a mechanical process, because it is viewed as a statistical average, from which the real character of struggle among the living has been eliminated.”

    While Smuts did have, in my view, a rather decent grasp of relativity for his time, much of the implications of quantum mechanics for biology were “over the horizon” in 1926. However, Smuts did have an evident sense of “fields” plausibly coming to represent biology far better than computable analytic mono-dimensional equations could.

    I suppose I could expound in detail the work of Walter Elsasser, Robert Rosen, Francisco Varella, A. H. Louie and other theoretical biologists and the way theoretical biology has become ever-increasingly of holism and relationalism. To paraphrase Walter Elsasser, what happens in one second in one living cell is beyond the power of binary digital computation were such a computer to be made of everything in the observable physical universe running for the entire expectable duration of the physical universe. Elsasser used terms like “unfathomably complex,” and “transcomputational” in his descriptions of biological phenomena.

    Well, it is challenging to do unfathomably complex, transcomputational calculus by crunching numbers. There has to be an easier way to do the mathematics of biology if the mathematics are to be done. And there is an easier way, only not everyone seems able to do it. For myself, the way of doing that sort of mathematics, which I tend to name, “high-dimensional space, complex-variable relational tensor calculus,” is to let patterns form in my Long Term Working Memory (yeah, need to be a neurological prodigy, if the relevant 2001 paper in Nature Neuroscience is accurate) and let patterns form until they result in something sufficiently tangible as to allow noting it, and subsequently sharing what was noted.

    Think that form of mathematics does not exist? Methinks that it is how spectacularly competent athletes do stuff with some semblance of regularity that is impossible to begin to describe in words or numbers.

    The book that best explains this stuff for me is a privately published book of Walter Elsasser, “Biological Theory on a Holistic Basis, Second Version.” In addition to the copy I found with intensely patient effort, I am aware of only five other copies, which are listed on Because of the difficulty of anyone being able to read this book, I propose to describe what it led me to ponder.

    In the existential model of biology that i find most effective and efficient, the entire universe (including all parallel and other whatever universes) consists of organisms and their substrates, No organism can exist without its necessary substrate, For any particular, specific organism, the rest of the entirety of existence is substrate. Thus, for one organism, all other organisms are of substrate. That means that life cannot actually be based on competition, the basis of life can only be collaboration.

    The competitive model is based on the misinformation of Cartesian dualism as of an analytical-reductionist model of a relational-holistic phenomenon.

    Furthermore, to avoid the difficulties of models of the universe which are fraught with undecipherable contradictions resulting in the experience of the universe being not only stranger than it is imagined to be; it is stranger than it can be imagined to be, modeling the universe as a singularity (now) which, to exist, has to change in the manner of an open system, such that the observable universe is actually made of probability patterns within the singularity which are observable as the observable universe, including its observability and its observers, and every supposed paradox of physics, at least to me, as-though vanishes identically.

    So-called paradoxes, such as Bertrand Russell’s Barber Paradox and the self-referential “This sentence is false” become trivial, tangible mechanisms.

    As for the notion of the making of avoidable mistakes, at issue is time confusion (as in the epigenetic chart of psychosocial developmental crises of Erik H. Erikson) or time-corrupted learning (as in the trauma research of Robert C. Scaer).

    The experiment that is reproducible I have described on the Turley blog before. The experiment consists of asking three questions of the sort a little child (or an autistic savant?) might ask:

    1. Ever make mistakes?
    2. Ever make a mistake you shouldn’t have made?
    3. Ever make a mistake you could have avoided?

    The first question merely frames the other two.

    The second question relates to declarative brain function (like, what people say, and not what people do, save for the awkward fact that saying something is a form of doing the saying of what is said).

    The third question relates to procedural brain function, the function which actually does whatever is done as a brain activity that has overt effects.

    For my thesis, I asked those questions of about 400 people, exactly 8 of which answered, “No,” to the second and third questions. When I asked those 8 people why they answered as they did, all of them explained that they had not known for sure what would happen until after they had made the mistake, and informed me that making a mistake and learning were the same process, differing only with regard to whether someone did, or did not, like what happened after it had happened.

    To the people who answered, “Yes,” to all three questions, i asked the person to tell me about a mistake made that could have been avoided that the person was comfortable telling about, and to tell what the person could have done to have avoided the mistake made. Every such person readily described a mistake and what could have been done.

    To what the person could have done, I asked, “Why didn’t you?”

    Every such person promptly gave me a reason preceded by,a form of “Because…” and gave me a description of something else that the person could have done.

    This process of “Because…, but I could have…” alternating with, “Why didn’t you?” always ended up with some form of, “Because, until after I made the mistake, I did not know for sure what would happen.”

    So, the first chunk of evidence is that no one can actually describe a mistake actually made and also actually describe any actually-achievable process through which the mistake actually made could have been avoided, this being because the information only gathered during the actual making of the mistake would actually have been needed before it existed for the mistake to have actually been avoided, thereby demonstrating that the avoiding of the mistake was a tangible actuality and not an intangible hypothetical in the form of misinformation regarding the nature of tangible (not mere hypothetical) absolute impossibility.

    The second chunk of evidence is rather like what Galileo did in terms of a demonstration of the refutation of a null-hypothesis and the inevitable proof of its dichotomous alternative.

    Make a mistake, say, the breaking of a glass used for drinking water. After the glass has shattered into fragments having new surface produced by stresses in the glass before it broke and the energy of it being dropped, demonstrate that the mistake was avoidable by demonstrating that the glass was not dropped and was not broken.

    Hypotheticals, as used in persuasive legal argumentation may be based on tangible impossibilities because it is trivial to concoct a hypothetical in which there are no tangible impossibilities. The dilemma of hypotheticals is their needing no form of actuality, of tangibility, or of existential reality save as one or another form of childish fairy tale not recognized as such, though the hypothetical that it is not a form of childish fairy tale.

    Or, as in Galileo, who forsake the hypothetical that two objects of similar shape and differing weight would fall at speeds proportional to their weights, and measured the speed of falling used experimental observation instead of hypothetical argument, I require a demonstration of the making of an actual, tangible mistake, such that it is unambiguous that the mistake was made, and the, the mistake having been demonstrated being made, demonstrate after the fact the mistake not being made when it was being made.

    If hypotheticals are the way of reality, there is this fruit fly, drosophila melanogaster, named Lucy in the Sky With Iron Pyrites, who, traveling at a googolplexian times the speed of light, terraformed Mars using gases from Venus, rocks from the asteroid belt, and water from the Oort Cloud 2.71818 femtoseconds ago< and Mars is not about the mass of the
    Earth, with plate tectonics akin to Earth, with a moon similar to that of Earth, and with space ships coming to carry volunteers to Mars so humans will have two planets suitable for human life, the better to save humanity from global warming disasters.

    I regard the feasibility of my silly hypothetical fruit fly story to be orders of magnitude less implausible than one real, tangible, demonstrated avoidable mistake actually made because it was avoided before it was made, thereby proving that it was avoidable.

    I never learned to confuse impossible fairy tales with tangble events. In my childhood home there was the story of Santa Claus and The Night Before Christmas. I never got one present labeled as being from Santa Claus, my parents were intent on never knowingly lying to me about anything and never knowingly deceiving me about anything. Christmas, during my childhood, was always a wonderful time for me because my parents never tricked me about it in any way whatsoever.

    My parents never told me that I could have done anything differently than I had done it. My parents never taught me the ways of deception, of time confusion, of time-corrupted learning, so I never took those ways into my inner life, or, if one prefers, into my belief structure.

    Before my mother died in the late summer of 1987, I had successfully defended my dissertation before my thesis committee. The day before she died of "old age," we had a gentle talk together for a couple hours. That was the last time in her life when she told me that she knew that i had never gone through the "terrible twos" (i.e. the infant-cjhild transition or infant-child discontinuity). As she had said before, many times and in many ways, she was so very glad that I was her child.

    She also knew, and told me, that she never went through the terrible twos, either.

    For those who cannot do without hypotheticals, how about the hypothetical that the infant-child discontinuity is what estranges children from "God"?

  45. It seems to me that some people, plausibly for diverse reasons, are relatively insensitive to the concerns of others; while there may also be people so sensitive to the concerns of others as to hint at some form of possible paranoia.

    I seem to be somewhere toward the more sensitive aspect of concern about others and how what I do, or do not do, may affect other people, but nowhere close to that sensitivity that would qualify as clinically significant paranoia.

    When, in 1986, I underwent the two main cancer risk minimizing surgeries I have had, the orchiectomy and the total colectomy with ileo-rectal anastomosis, except for a scar that went almost from bone to bone along my abdomen midline, the colon surgery would not be obvious to other people, while my concern about not needlessly “freaking out” sensitive men led to my getting testicular prosthesis implants, solid silicone, which had not been found, as I read the medical literature, to cause any noteworthy problems.

    It would never, never ever, have occurred to me, regardless of surgery, to do as the story has it that Colleen Francis did, as though what i regard someone with exhibitionist tendencies might do. However, stories are stories, and some stories are not accurate.

    In the mid 1990s,with the silicone fluid filled breast implant “thing,” the sort of implants I got were pulled from the prosthesis market, and men who needed a bilateral orchiectomy because of one or another cancer issue tended to become, as male cancer sites tend to put it,, “flatbaggers.”

    In 2011, after some 20 years, one of my implants and my body took on a foreign body reaction, something that I find may end up compromising immune system function. So, I went back to hospital where they were put in, where it was determined to be medically indicated that they be removed because of the foreign body reaction.

    Since the mid 1990s, I there are a fair number of men who are “flatbaggers,”and who go swimming for health reasons. Perhaps the prejudice against cancer and people vulnerable to cancer will further decrease. I hope so.

    I never learned to be proud of my life, and I never learned to be ashamed of it.

    I never learned to judge my life or the lives of other people. I have never had a day of my life that I wished, after the day was over, had been different than it was.

    As I have suggested earlier, to me, life consists of organisms and substrates, such that the whole of existence is the whole of the phenomenon of life, not only do i observe, to use title of one of the late theoretical biologist, Robert Rosen’s book titles to describe my sense of life, that existence is “Life Itself,’ the directly observable creatively evolving way of existence and all that existence is and does, makes the title of the book by theoretical biologist, A. H. Louie, “More Than LIfe Itself,” a good way for me to understand life as process.

    If the model I tend to favor, that the whole of existence may perhaps most usefully be mentally modeled as a singularity (would the title of the book by theologian Paul Tillich, “The Eternal Now” be informative?), then is it a mentally useful hypothetical to allow that the whole of existence is “the big bang,” such that existence is only beginning, and is therefore without end?

    For me, as a theoretical biologist and practical bioengineer, I regard what is sometimes named “religion” to be human brain activity regarding what is not yet understood. In that sense, religion informs science as to what may usefully be investigated next.

    As life is made of death and as death is made of life, to me they are inseparable and complementary and not in conflict or competition with each other. If food will not die so that I may eat, both food and I will die.As I have lived for more than 73 years through eating food, I expect the time is getting closer,day by day, when my turn to be food will come. What more could I ever want, yet I am not in a hurry.

    I have never understood life as competition,nor as struggle. I have only understood life as the process of possibilities becoming probabilities becoming actualities.

    i cannot be taught to be afraid of death because I cannot be taught to be afraid of life. I cannot be taught to seek death because I cannot be taught to be afraid of life.

    I cannot be taught to retaliate because I cannot demonstrate that anything in the future would be better had anything in the past been other than it was.

    How could I ever accurately test the effect of anything in my life on anything whatsoever a billion years from now?

    In an ultimate sense, is the tragedy of beauty any more or less important than the beauty of tragedy?

  46. Thanks. I understand that you enjoyed your effort. It is always pleasant for me to inform, however little I can. And certainly so for you. Communication, as Barber has demonstrated, being a primary function even at unitary cell level. Thus in some way pleasant at alllevels. Hello out there so to say. Anybody out there to phrase it otherwise.
    To give a fast and facile reply would ba a disservice to myself and no polite return to you. I felt comfortable that most of what you wrote waa within my range. Onle a few, most notably singularity which is an old comprehension problem for me.

    Your mention of the cell and its activity reinforces my amazement in re. How that activity is steered other than by purely chemical reactions is not to be found, I feel. Study of that leads us to the observer vs the quantum objest’s objection to being observed.

    The life vs substrate model is congenial as well, tending as it does to support the holistic view.

    While I do not as far as I know have any long term memory talents of note, I do feel that the pursuing of answers goes on continuously, although there must be a level which directs the process, but the popping up of unwanted answers suggest that there are layers who live a “thinking” life of their own. Hope that that makes sense.

    Many parts will require further study. Particularly, ingestion of the “fault” being a mental construct or mismodelling of the learning process, that being only one example. Another being the infant/child transition of which I would like to hear more. Of course, the whole thing will require re-reading. A rarity here. Not to be nasty, just placing your efforts where I believe they belong in my mind.

    Meanwhile, thank you.

    Savants have always been fascinating. The obvious question being not why they are as they are, but why are we NOT savants too.
    Why and how did our brains get screwed up?

  47. My joking solution is:

    Instead of a picture of a woman in a dress and a man as symbols of which bathroom a person is to use, change the logo for bathroom “A” to a Wiener and Bathroom “B” to a Taco. Admit yourself based upon which is more similar to your own.

    My serious solution is:

    WA state law makes no distinction of which restroom a person must use. It’s a social issue not a legal one. I don’t see any jurisdiction of the state here. If the person violates laws such as indecent exposure well, that is all a matter of definition of “open and obscene”. It is bad that a person could be nicked for indecent exposure just by the ordinary act of using a bathroom, People should not risk an over-zealous prosecutor just for doing so.

  48. Darren,

    Enjoyed your joking comment. Let me “misundestand” it by adding that am not sure anybody would want to go through a door with a photo of an ugly white guy on it. All would end up in the “taco” room.
    Can’t you hear the kids saying: “Mom, I need to go to the “Taco” room!”

    Seriously, it might help us go further in our socialization process, which seems to be a necessary
    prerequisite for the solution that you propose.

  49. The “locker room”and “bathroom” issue, in this instance, actually becomes an issue. Extremely unfortunate, but bound to happen sooner or later. Please note that this was an incidence lacking ALL tact and common sense, but was not – at least at face value – criminal.

    As a transgender woman I can absolutely state that during my transition period absolutely NO ONE ever saw my genital area. I would have been absolutely mortified. I know of NO transgender individual that will allow “private areas” to be viewed by ANYONE but the most private and intimate partners.

    Jonathan, you should know better than to describe a transgender woman using a phrase like “a 45-year-old male student, who dresses as a woman”. If she is indeed transsexual/transgender,then she IS a woman, albeit not anatomically correct. She should always be referred to as a woman. Period. That being said, Coleen Frances is an insensitive clod, who has unfortunately created an actual incident where a bathroom or locker room has become a matter of controversy. It is extremely distasteful, but I sincerely doubt that it was criminal or meant to in anyway sexually offend or create a self excitement, as is the case with MALE flashers. She IS MOST PROBABLY just an insensitive fool, like the men and women you might see in Walmart wearing clothing that is overly revealing and inappropriate. Members of the transsexual/transgender community are in general a most empathetic and considerate individuals, but like every portion of society, we are not without our fools. Or our “Walmart” population.

    Colleen Frances SHOULD use the rest room and locker room that corresponds to her gender presentation and gender identity. By the account provided, she exhibited extremely poor judgment and showed a complete lack of regard for the sensitivities of others. While her actions were not criminal, she should be reprimanded by the institution for her lack of plain common sense and instructed that any future lack of discretion would end her welcome at the facility.

    Frankly, I find it difficult to comprehend her actions. In reality, the “bathroom” issue does not exist for the transgender population. Thousands of pre-op women use the gender identity appropriate facilities on a daily basis with no incident. Thousands. This one woman, and this one incident, can be used as an example for extremists to pass legislation that would deny access to those facilities. She is, IMHO, a pathetic boob.

  50. Jeri,

    Was impressed how well your gender sits, judging by your words. Nice to see.

    I, seriously wonder, if this person is in the new gender at all. I think that he/she is a flasher. And I use the he/she as a pejorative way of describing this creep. No “woman” would act in such a manner.

    Inasmuch as I can’t do Walmart here in Sweden, then I will take your word that the trans world has their Walmart people.

    Is it true that people who shop there are of “that class”, looking down your nose at them?? Or is that your prejudice. We all have them, but that one jarred me. Are there too many residents of house trailers too? ;-)

  51. The nature of cissexism is that trans identities are viewed as less legitimate and subject to cis approval. If a cisfeminine person displayed the same level of aversion to towels in the sauna you would not degender her. That is cissexism, plain and simple.

  52. Idealist:

    Yeah it is odd this thing called socialization. Some things in Europe would be scandalous here in the US and they are normal there. A few I can think of seeing when I was there was the co-ed semi-nude spas in Germany, another–at least to high school males here–was walking with three other guys with our arms over each others’ shoulders when I was in Moscow in 84 in kind of a “buddy” thing as it seemed with the Russians, and the most striking of all to me was Zwarte Piet in The Netherlands

    Admittedly, being an American and knowing our history,seeing children dressed as Zwarte Piet was probably the most I have been culture shocked in my travels Not that I was offended, but I was bewildered completely this was acceptable to Dutch People. Again, socialization was the reason for my reaction. You make a good point.

  53. The published description of the deemed-objectionable conduct of Colleen Francis fits rather well into the paraphilia realm.

    Having, over the span of my life so far, tens of thousands of “contact hours” with people whose lives had aspects of conditions listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manuals of the American Psychiatric Association, it makes more sense to me to allow that the described conduct of Colleen Francis has one or more plausibly appropriate DSM category designators.

    While I was sadly astonished by the references to Colleen Francis as being a “man,” it is also clear to me that there is such terribly intense, vast, and pervasive prejudice against the essential diversity of human biology that has made the human species possible, that I am vividly aware of what led more than one gender-diverse person to end up in a psychiatric hospital day room, waking up from emergency room treatment in another hospital because the nth suicide attempt had failed.

    Without naming or outing anyone, and with enough changes in trivialities to preclude accurately identifying the person, I do have a true story, modified only enough to provide mandatory confidentiality. The chromosome gender and gender identity of the person in the story may, or may not, be correctly presented here. The gist of the story is true.

    One day, in the late 1980s, while I was not yet done with sorting out what morphine had done to me following my colon surgery in 1986, I was sitting in the day room of a private psychiatric hospital in Cook County, Illinois.

    Two “ambulance people” brought a person into the day room on a “stretcher,” and placed the person in a “sleeping position” on a sofa in the day room. After about an hour, the person, who had bandaged wrists, began to stir, then sat up slowly, then developed what was, to me, a bewildered/perplexed countenance.

    When it appeared to me as though the person had awakened enough for me to speak to the person, I told the person my name and said a few trivial things, to which the person responded as though my talking was welcome.

    I said, “Some of the other patients here think you are a boy.”

    The person said, “I am.”

    I said, “I think I may know something about that.”

    My “transdar” was as though firing on all cylinders at full throttle.

    (How is that for a messed-up mixed metaphor?)



    I have a strong disinclination to blast traumatized people with pejorative disrespect.

    While I am seriously circumspect regarding flaunting my “private parts” in public, or semi-public, settings, the notion that human sexuality is, in any way, obscene makes, to me, the whole of human life as though obscene. That, to me, is the plausible limit of obscenity.

    After the manner suggested by Dr. Abraham A. Low, I find it far more pro-social to excuse than to accuse, and, having excused, set about helping to pick up the pieces.

    Breaking something or someone who has already been broken may merely increase the damage already done.

    Jeri, thanks for sharing your views. I would have put more out, except, being MtFtE puts me on the outside of what some trans community members may deem within normalcy.

    The more the actual diversity of humanity is made known, the safer it will eventually become to be a normal, normally-diverse, member of the human (homo sapiens sapiens) species.

    For all I can yet figure, humans may yet earn that species name identity.

    Useful wisdom may not forever remain outside human reach.

  54. This seems more a case of someone trying to rile people up. I have been in plenty of public males only saunas and never felt the need to splay myself out on the bench. The rights of the one do not outweigh the rights of the many. The teen girls should have a reasonable expectation that they can walk around the locker room without having to come eye to eye with cockn’balls.

Comments are closed.