Poll: One-Third of Americans Would Accept Cavity Searches By TSA

In past columns, I have lamented how our government has not only stripped away core civil liberties from citizens, but that citizens have become increasing passive and accepting of the loss of such freedoms. A new poll conducted by Harris Interactive offers a particularly chilling measure of just how passive and accepting citizens have become to the new realities of our internal security system. The poll found almost one third of American adults would accept a “TSA body cavity search” in order to fly. Moreover a majority believes that it is reasonable to criminalize the act of disobeying any TSA agent.

The survey was conducted online by Harris Interactive on behalf of Infowars from November 5-7 among 2059 American adults. People were asked: “Given the recent reports concerning the threat posed by terrorists who plan to implant bombs within their own bodies, how willing, if at all, would you be to undergo a TSA body cavity search in order to fly?” Thirty percent said yes.

Notably, the Supreme Court recently gave prisons and jails virtually carte blanche to conduct strip searches on anyone who have been arrested and jailed in Florence v. Board of Chosen Freeholders, 566 U.S. ___ (2012). In a 5-4 decision, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that officials may strip-search individuals who have been arrested for any crime before they are simply put in a cell, even minor offenses. The dissenting justices noted that a recent study conducted in New York under the supervision of federal courts found that out of 23,000 people searched, only one inmate had hidden contraband in his body in a way that would have avoided detection by x-ray and a pat-down. That did not matter to the majority which stripped away protections for citizens, even those arrested for the most minor offenses.

Decisions like Florence are part of a broader erosion of expectations in our society. Citizens are becoming used to government intrusions and searches.

Citizens now treat security officials as naturally posing unchecked authority over their lives. Almost 60 percent found that a law allowing for the arrest of citizens would be appropriate if they disobey any order by a TSA agent.

The fact is that there has always been a sizable group of Americans who accept and even relish a dominance by authority. There are some who simply favor more authoritarian measures and readily embrace the loss of freedoms. However, if accurate, this poll is a chilling measure of the erosion of the expectations of privacy and rights by average Americans in the expanding internal security state.

Source: Infowars

130 thoughts on “Poll: One-Third of Americans Would Accept Cavity Searches By TSA

  1. Perhaps those who were polled were males being polled by a nice looking female who smilingly inquired if they would mind if someone put their index finger up their arse.

  2. 47 % of Americans think that the Cayman Islands are off the coast of Florida and indeed part of the State of Florida and not a banking hideaway for the 1% ters like the Willard Bain Romney. 47% of New Yorkers think that Saint Louis is in Michigan and Kansas City is in Kansas. 100% of New Yorkers think that turdy turd and a turd is an intersection of two streets in NYC. 47% of Americans think that Theodore Roosevelt was a Democrat. 99% of Americans do not know that Franklyn Delano Roosevelt married his first cousin. Mostly all Muslims do not know that the Prophet Mohommed married a nine year old child and raped her. 99% of Americans do not know if Nazareth is on the East Bank of West Bank and they dont know the name of the river involved in that Bank and think it might be in the Cayman Islands.

  3. 47% of Americans think that a cavity search involves having someone look with a small flashlight into one’s mouth, into an empty space where a tooth filling fell out. The other 47% tells their children that there is a tooth fairy.

  4. I am sure that same 1/3 would have a totally different reaction if you ask the same question while they were being strip searched and having their naked bodies probed by a total stranger. Americans always think it happens to someone else.

  5. citizens have become increasing passive and accepting of the loss of such freedoms

    Ah, the Huxley of it all:

    “There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”

    (Wee The People). The Stockholm Syndrome is not what it is cracked up to be is it?

  6. One third of Americans would wear a gimp suit and be leashed
    because
    1) It ‘Protects Our Freedoms (TM)’
    2) It’s a big fantasy turn-on, but not to be admitted — great excuse if it’s imposed by authority figures for a vaguely plausible reason.
    .

    “Almost 60 percent found that a law allowing for the arrest of citizens would be appropriate if they disobey any order by a TSA agent. ”
    Great for people who couln’t get a job where they flipped/served burgers and asked “Would you like a drink with that?” Now they can work for the TSA and tell people that they *will* have a drink.
    .

    “Given the recent reports concerning the threat posed by terrorists who plan to implant bombs within their own bodies…”
    The idea is that explosives would be *surgically implanted*. TSA officers sticking their fingers up the rectums and vaginas of autistic children wouldn’t be a lot of help in detecting that.
    What is being suggested in the poll is yet more security theatre.

  7. @InMW

    I agree with your statement “Americans always think that it happens to someone else”. So did the Jews in Germany in the 1930′s; they didn’t expect Auschwitz.

    I’ve been doing my best to warn my fellow citizens that what happened to me could happen to them, but Rafflaw, Gene, and some of the other regular participants in this blog don’t believe it. Let me state it again:

    “I am an American citizen. My father was a WWII vet and is interned at Arlington National. I don’t have a criminal record. I got my bachelors and masters degrees at MIT. I am a female caucasian and have blue eyes.

    The U.S. Department of Justice detained me for 5 months without a criminal charge, an evidentiary hearing, a bail hearing or a government prosecutor. The USMS entered non-existent criminal charges against me into their NCIC, Warrant Information Network and Prisoner Tracking System computer systems. The USMS has refused to release a PTS Form 129 for me for Western Wisconsin where I was detained for three weeks. Even though I was not charged with a federal offense, I was classified as a maximum security prisoner and strip searched.

    The first time that I sued DOJ, its first lawyer David C. Rybicki misrepresented that the purpose of the Prisoner Tracking System doesn’t require a criminal charge which conflicts with DOJ’s Privacy Act Notice in the Federal Register.
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004-04-28/pdf/04-9647.pdf#page=2
    (see Federal Register Vol 69 p. 23213)
    Rybicki misrepresented that I was detained for “failure to appear” but the “subject report for Sieverding, Kay” shows that I was detained for “obstructing court order-based on probable cause” and “bail” which are both criminal charges, yet there was no oath or affirmation that there was probable cause, as required by the 4th Amendment, and the DOJ Criminal Division claims to have no records of me at all.

    Rybicki misrepresented that I “beleaguered federal and state courts alike with abusive, contumacious and frivolous litigation for years” but current DOJ counsel Tricia D. Francis emailed me yesterday that DOJ is opposed to having an evidentiary hearing on whether that is true. DOJ did not supply any court filings in support of its prejudicial statement and Rule 201 prohibits judicial notice of findings of fact by other courts. Rybicki asked Federal Court judge John D. Bates to violate Rule 201 because he thought that I wouldn’t be able to figure out that he asked the Court to violate the Rules of Evidence.

    The second time I sued DOJ, Rybicki misrepresented (twice!) that the Joint Automated Booking System does not require a criminal charge. That contradicts its Privacy Act Notice of the ‘Categories of Individuals Covered by the [JABS] System’
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2006-09-07/pdf/E6-14828.pdf#page=1
    (see Federal Register vol. 71 p. 52821)

    This affects you because if you don’t have $100 K to file a lawsuit in federal court with an attorney, you could be subject to violations of the rules of evidence, obstruction of justice, and booking and imprisonment without a criminal charge, an evidentiary hearing, a bail hearing, or a government prosecutor. Even if you don’t file a lawsuit in federal court, Judge Bates already ruled that the Joint Automated Booking System doesn’t require a criminal charge so based on that case law you can be fingerprinted and information about your body including photos of any part of your body can be entered into a national database. Even if you are an attorney, you can lose your bar license in a secret procedure and then be subjected to the abuses of and discrimination against pro se litigants as happened to former Jewish lawyers in Germany during the Holocaust.

    Pursuant to 28 USC 1746, I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.”

  8. What InMW said.

    People believe that it won’t happen to them. Cavity searches are for others.

    “Internal security system”, you say? In general, think “Stasi”, because we already have one. Many (most?) Americans simply don’t realize it, yet. Unbelievable things goin’ on in America. And it isn’t just “the bad guys” who are being targeted.

    “However, if accurate, this poll is a chilling measure of the erosion of the expectations of privacy and rights by average Americans the expand internal security state.”

    It’s so much worse than many think.

  9. From Jonathan Turley’s source article:

    “Despite the fact that this policy is already underway in some instances, a full 65% of American adults found TSA workers touching genitals “completely” or “somewhat unacceptable”. A further 35% of American adults found this “completely” or “somewhat acceptable”. More Republicans than Democrats (12% to 9%) were likely to find this “completely acceptable”.

    Asked how the TSA is performing in its screening duties at U.S. airports, 77% of American adults said the federal agency was doing an excellent, good or fair job. 23% of American adults thought the TSA was doing a not very good job or a bad job in its duties. Despite sustained negative media coverage of the agency’s activities, of that latter netcategory, only 9% in total thought the TSA was doing a “bad job”.

    More Democrats than Republicans (84% to 73%) responded that they thought the TSA was doing an excellent, good or fair job.”

    Here’s the link to the full poll:

    http://www.infowars.com/poll-nearly-one-third-of-americans-would-accept-tsa-body-cavity-search-in-order-to-fly/

  10. “…the chilling effect “weapons of compliance” have on protest-minded Americans.” Isn’t a cavity search a sort of “weapon” of compliance?

    November 06, 2012

    From The Scott Horton Show

    [audio src="http://dissentradio.com/radio/12_11_02_whitehead.mp3" /]

    “Constitutional attorney and author John Whitehead discusses the US government’s authorization of drone aircraft for domestic law enforcement and surveillance (public and private); the estimated 30,000 drones of all shapes and sizes that will be in service by 2020; the fate of former Marine Brandon Raub, who was forcibly institutionalized for controversial Facebook postings; the many veterans being pestered by FBI and DHS for exercising their First Amendment rights; The Rutherford Institute’s model legislation for preserving civil liberties and slowing the drone invasion; and the chilling effect “weapons of compliance” have on protest-minded Americans.”

  11. Completely acceptable until it happens to them! 1/3 of American are fearful sheep who have decided that the terrorist should win. These are the same people are mostly willing to allow warrentless searches and wire taps, indefinite detention. In short, to placate terrorists the are willing to turn our country into a police state. Sad very sad.

  12. If and when I ever choose to fly again, sure, a good looking blond TSA agaent can worm her tongue up my butt… but it would have to be done in privacy…… ;-O Until then, if I can’t drive to where I’m going, then I’m not going to go there

  13. @Anonymously Yours

    One fact not immediately obvious is that rights become rights because citizens of the past fought for their recognition as rights because they were important. People today read about various rights and think that they don’t sound important.

    The individual rights, such as a right not to be subjected to body cavity searches without a compelling reason, all support each other like a wall made of struts that is very strong and light. When struts are removed the wall of rights that protects us weakens.

    The right not to be subjected to body cavity searches is related to a right to travel. If we don’t defend this right in airports, then we might be subjected to body cavity searches when we cross state lines in cars.

    The public is assuming discrete and private body searches but we might be subjected to cavity searches in view of others. People are already filing in Court that they were subjected to body searches in view of other prisoners for the purpose of humiliation only.

    It’s impossible to be dignified during a body cavity search. When people’s dignity is removed the guards feel contempt towards them and are more likely to engage in other rights abuses such as forcing them to dance naked. That has already been found to have occurred in U.S. jails. I read a case about that just recently. Women prisoners were forced to dance naked in front of hundreds of people. That leads to gang rape.

    Photos of body cavity searches could be put into national data bases and/ or published on the Internet.

    You could be subjected to a body cavity search in the presence of your child.

  14. Kay S, you say “I agree with your statement “Americans always think that it happens to someone else”. So did the Jews in Germany in the 1930′s; they didn’t expect Auschwitz.”

    The comparison is illogical.

    If you were to have polled the Jews in Germany in the 1930s and asked, “Would it be OK with you if a bunch of people living in Germany and the rest of Europe were shipped off to concentration camps to be starved, beaten, tortured, separated from their families, forced to work as slaves and then killed and buried in mass graves?” you would probably NOT have 30 percent of them saying, “Fine, great” for the reason that they imagined there would not be Jews among the victims. THAT is the more logical way to compare Americans polled about their travel rights and privileges to Jews in Germany in the 1930s.

    The Jews were not taken aback by Auschwitz because they didn’t expect it to happen to THEM; they were taken aback by Auschwitz because, like normal people anywhere, they couldn’t imagine it happening PERIOD, and they would have opposed it vigorously (if they were not terrorized into hushing up in horror, as were many non-Jewish Europeans) if given any opportunity to object.

    Asking normal Americans, “Would you object to a body cavity search before being allowed to board a plane?” is about what THAT PERSON would accept or object to for that person’s own experience. The fact that 30% of American people said YES is a shocker to me.

    It would be comparable to asking a normal German Jew in 1930, “Would you object to being deprived of life, liberty and property in a particularly horrible manner rather than continuing to go on with your own particular life tomorrow?”

    I’m a Jew. I don’t really believe 30% of the German Jews would have said, “No problem” to that one.

  15. You’re right, I should have written more clearly. And I am not an expert on history. I think it is true though that there were people who were aware that bad things were happening but didn’t protest and then bad things happened to them. see Martin Niemöller

  16. It is a very sad thing indeed that so many citizens of this country have been willing participants in the destruction of our liberties. The simple act of NOT demanding an end to these infractions makes them a participant. Everyone who is able to speak up for themselves must. I fear for our futures.

  17. Kay S, I agree that “there were people who were aware that bad things were happening but didn’t protest and then bad things happened to them,” but there are, of course, 1,000 different variables, at least, in each individual’s choice of what response they are about to make to a situation they find bad. In general, I just find it easier to avoid the extremes (Holocaust, etc.) when analyzing ordinary human behavior. I have spent my whole life wondering what I would have done and how I would have acted had I been a non-Jewish German over the age of reason in the 1930s. But an analysis of ORDINARY human behavior (which is where the poll of the Americans about air travel would be aimed) won’t help me or, probably, anyone else, answer that question.

  18. Look, the lack of dental care in this country can be appalling. It’s good if someone wants to offer a free cavity search!

  19. This blog is getting closer to real concerns about airlines and getting from point A to point B for reasons of C. Just the other day JT was itchinBay about his flight getting cancelled from New Orleans to DC because of the Hurricane. And he had to dirve! He did not report in about getting a finger up his arse when he hit the DC border. So maybe driving is better than flying. At least when one drives a car one does not have to sit next to a 300 lb nun who farts often and snoozes the whole trip with her head on your shoulder and a booger hanging off her nose. And that is the way I see it through my own eyes.

  20. I think it’s most likely that 30% of the respondents have no clue what a body cavity search even is. Ever watch Leno? There are some really ignorant people out there.

  21. “It is a very sad thing indeed that so many citizens of this country have been willing participants in the destruction of our liberties. The simple act of NOT demanding an end to these infractions makes them a participant. Everyone who is able to speak up for themselves must. I fear for our futures.” -Evelyn

    Yes, yes, and yes.

  22. “Despite the fact that this policy is already underway in some instances, a full 65% of American adults found TSA workers touching genitals “completely” or “somewhat unacceptable”. A further 35% of American adults found this “completely” or “somewhat acceptable”. More Republicans than Democrats (12% to 9%) were likely to find this “completely acceptable”.

    That certainly explains a lot about Republicans.

    However, the observation that Americans tend to think “this happens to other people” is a valid one. Sorry, but this kind of behavior from the government is not acceptable (with the exception of in-processing prisoners who have been rightfully arrested, tried and/or sentenced or with the appropriate warrant). People willing to have some stranger stick their fingers in them – and let’s not sugar coat this, that is what a body cavity search is – over something that is about as likely to kill you as your own furniture? Are out of their minds. I don’t like people I don’t know touching me much less performing an invasive body cavity search. You better be my doctor acting on reasonable medical grounds or someone I love a lot to even try that. I promise you won’t like my reaction otherwise. It involves you bleeding and possibly enjoying multiple contusions and broken bones. Self defense is a primary right and one of the few that can and does remain nearly absolute in a society.

    A body cavity search is battery.

    I’ll respond to it with self-defense in any situation other than the prescribed very narrow exceptions. And gettin’ on your lil’ plane is an excuse that ain’t gettin’ the job done either.

    Now, you 12% of Republicans? Ya’ll need to find a better way to entertain yourselves. If you enjoy that sort of thing? Keep it at home and away from everyone else’s Constitutional rights.

    Or you could do the right thing and repeal the Patriot Act and dismantle the TSA (and the DHS).

    I mean furniture. Really?

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/americans-are-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/

  23. As someone who suffered through a full body cavity inspection after Kent State at the hands of the Jackson County jail guards, anyone who thinks this is appropriate for all travelers needs to experience it, just once.

  24. Mike S.,

    We’ve got a whole ugly lot of them (authoritarian types) and need to get them under control, to the degree that we can, over the next four years. Thanks for posting the link.

  25. If there were any doubt remaining about what Americans actually want, this poll should erase it. The United Sheeple of America have spoken.

  26. Or you could do the right thing and repeal the Patriot Act and dismantle the TSA (and the DHS). -Gene H.

    Yes, …as well as deal with the FAA ( FISA Amendments Act, in this case). Wyden is one of the few who seems to really get it.

    Thanks for the link. Listen to the Whitehead interview, if you get the change. He reinforces the same point.

  27. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/18/compliance-the-year-s-most-controversial-film.html

    “Compliance: The Year’s Most Controversial Film”

    Aug 18, 2012

    “Based on a true story, the provocative indie film Compliance has caused walkouts and post-screening shouting matches. Marlow Stern examines the real-life incidents that inspired the film and speaks with the film’s director and star.

    On April 9, 2004, a man identifying himself as a policeman named “Officer Scott” phoned a McDonald’s in Mount Washington, Ky., and gave a vague description to assistant manager Donna Summers of a young woman with dark hair suspected of theft. The officer said he had received a report from the store’s manager, Lisa Siddons, who he claimed was on the other line. Summers believed that Louise Ogborn, an 18-year-old girl on duty, fit the description, and was ordered by the “cop” to take her to a back room. There, the man over the phone gave Ogborn an ultimatum: submit to a strip search or be arrested and taken to the police station.”

  28. Friday, Jan 20, 2012

    Creeping authoritarianism on Capitol Hill

    What we can learn from one congressman’s convoluted defense of the NDAA

    By John Knefel

    http://www.salon.com/2012/01/20/creeping_authoritarianism_on_capitol_hill/

    “This is how civil liberties get eroded: not by landslides, but by glaciers. Inch by inch. Those who claim to believe in liberty sacrifice it for the illusion of security, all the while holding themselves up as staunch defenders of the American Way. To whatever extent Gibson believes his own rhetoric about the importance of the Bill of Rights, his actions tell a different story, a story of illusion trumping logic and fact.

    The greatest threat to America is the steady drip of, “I’ll concede that point,” but, after all, you’re citing a fringe example from which we can’t extrapolate. We are a Free Country, and no bill or act or presidential decree can take that away. Those who find comfort in that line of reasoning – and Gibson has plenty of company in both parties – are, whether they know it or not, acting as authoritarians. They must confront their own complacency and reverse course if they wish to actually defend civil liberties, instead of just claiming they do.”

  29. “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free”
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goerthe

  30. Anonymously: “We’ve got a whole ugly lot of them (authoritarian types) and need to get them under control, to the degree that we can, over the next four years.”

    I don’t know if you heard, but the guy in charge for the next four years is the same guy that was in charge for the past four years – during which most of this has been ramping up. ;)

    Although….. maybe his first term was only for getting the feels of things.
    Maybe in the next four years he will
    – stop being a Bush clone
    – really shut down GITMO – or at least ensure that the detainees known to have no guilt die in GITMO beach bungalows rather than in cells
    – unsign the NDAA – so the the next guy won’t use its powers
    – introduce an Amendment to make torture/enhanced-interrogation unconstitutional (it doen’t appear to be so currently) – so the next guy won’t reinstate it (as Romney said that he would)
    — while not having to prosecute thse who tortured and/or dreamt up text to make it un-torture, he could at least make it clear that torture is at the very least extremely naughty.
    – stop waging war on whistleblowers who reveal illegality and gross waste
    – stop waging war on the rest of the world
    – stop giving people reasons to become terrorists
    – (huge list of stuff, including the question of security theatre)

    He’ll really have to use his full authority for this.
    No wait!
    Yes he can.

  31. BREAKING:

    The TSA “All about finding ma cavity” training video

    The cavity sounds like a very dangerious thing. Just as well that the TSA will be looking in to it.

  32. @ Gene

    You wrote “with the exception of in-processing prisoners who have been rightfully arrested, tried and/or sentenced or with the appropriate warrant”.

    Believe me I was not sympathetic to prisoners. As I stated before, I don’t have a criminal record. When I went to jail I identified with the guards and I was scared of the prisoners. And I only knew women prisoners so my observations don’t extend to men. But I got curious about them and what I observed that a lot of them were held without what seemed to be probable cause that they committed a crime or at least a serious crime. As examples:

    1) A woman held for 2 weeks because she didn’t renew her car registration because she didn’t have funds because her daughter had cancer.

    2) A teacher and a medical office manager who were both held for first time DUI’s on the basis of having two margaritas in a bar in Vail after skiing. They had to check in for jail every weekend and were strip searched every time. (Bars in Colorado aren’t required to post the alcohol content of their drinks) They said the police were stopping everyone leaving the bar and that it had nothing to do with how they were driving.

    3) A woman who was held for driving with her husband because before they got back together three years ago and had another child he got a restraining order against her

    4) A woman who was held for 6 months before trial because her ex accused her of theft with no evidence that there really was a theft

    5) A woman who was held for 6 months before trial with no prior record because she didn’t report her son for dealing

    6) A woman held for 2 weeks because she didn’t appear in court after a summons was mailed to a 2 year old address and she didn’t get it. She lost her job and her apartment.

    7) A woman who was held because she hit a woman she walked in on giving oral sex to her husband

    8) A woman who was held after the police in pursuit of her daughter’s boyfriend found an unregistered gun in a locked safe in her dead mother’s stuff in her garage. She had no priors.

    9) A woman held for 3 months for selling a very small amount of pot to a 17 year old. She said she didn’t realize he was only 17.

    10) A woman held for 6 months for not showing up at a probation meeting after she slapped her boyfriend’s face. She said she couldn’t explain to her boss that she was on probation and that there weren’t any options to go during non work hours.

    11) A woman held for months because the police found drugs in someone else’s knapsack left outside of her house

    12) A woman held for 6 months and deported for first time DUI because she had come to this country illegally when she was 4 years old. (DUI levels these days are very low).

    13) Three nuns held for 18 months because they demonstrated at a nuclear missile site (they were at my facility before I got there)

  33. I don’t know if you heard, but the guy in charge for the next four years is the same guy that was in charge for the past four years – during which most of this has been ramping up. ;) -Sling

    No, of course I hadn’t heard… ;-)

    …the things to which I’m referring were ramped up long before Obama took office.

    The alternative to “Yes, he can” is “No, he can’t”, and I’m not willing to give up just yet. To give up is to roll over and die… and I’m not ready for that just yet. ;-)

  34. “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free” Johann Wolfgang Von Goerthe (sic) A typo, I presume, “Today’s Special”

    Bears repeating.

  35. I’ve got a cavity search coming up @ my annual physical next month. I take a little comfort my doc is a woman. The doc I had previously had hands the size of canned hams!

  36. – while not having to prosecute thse who tortured and/or dreamt up text to make it un-torture, he could at least make it clear that torture is at the very least extremely naughty. -SlingT

    Since “torture” was mentioned, here’s an article that may be of interest:

    Anti-Torture Psychologists Respond to Attack from APA Division Chief
    By: Jeff Kaye Wednesday November 7, 2012 1:47 pm

    http://my.firedoglake.com/valtin/2012/11/07/anti-torture-psychologists-respond-to-attack-from-apa-division-chief/

    “In June 2005, the APA published their report on Psychological Ethics and National Security (the PENS report). APA, stung by criticism that psychologists had been involved in torture at Guantanamo and elsewhere, nevertheless stacked the panel hastily assembled that Spring with over fifty percent military and/or military connected members.

    These were not just any military individuals, but included the former Chief of Psychology at Guantanamo, a SERE psychologist who supported use of SERE techniques in interrogations, and a Special Forces top psychologist who, according to an investigation by the Senate Armed Services Committee, had actually trained interrogators in use of SERE torture techniques in interrogations.” …continues…

  37. I am so glad to see this posted here. I had read it yesterday and was just appalled.

    So these people think it’s not so good the way they are TOUCHED during a search, but it’s okay for a CAVITY SEARCH??? (And it’s worse for us girls, because we have TWO cavities!)

    What was even worse to that to me, was that the people think the TSA has the right to order them around, just because they are in a certain building. This whole thing is just unthinkable to me! The ”freeze” thing is just insane. These people are trying to get on a plane; they haven’t been caught in a bank robbery!

    And for those of you who won’t fly now (like me), it won’t matter. They’ve already started on busses and trains, and are supposed to start in malls and football games and streets anytime. The airports were just the beginning. They’ve done such a bangup job, they’re to be everywhere now! Baltimore is starting to install microphones on their busses, so they can hear everything being said; but no cavity searches yet with that.

    This is no longer our country. The Fascist States of Amerika have been born (FSA, goes well with TSA doesn’t it). Actually, I think we don’t even need states in there anymore, because they obviously have no more power. The Fascist Union of Amerika? Why are there so few of us who care?

    When preppers and Ron Paul supporters and people who are ”patriotic” or who love liberty became terrorists (call your local Homeland Security if you see them, or if anyone pays for coffee with cash, God forbid) this new country was born.

  38. Furniture?

    Why are we only tabulating actual deaths? There are other injuries to consider. I have heard that many couch potatoes are brain-washed.

  39. I’m not sure who I trust less: the TSA or “Source: Infowars”. i mean, really now, the source is a known batshit insane conspiracy site?

  40. How about two lines at the airport. They form after a sign that reads “If you would like a free body cavity search go to the left. If not, go to your right.”

    That way those who were ignorant as to what a body cavity search encompases can be properly educated. Those who desire a body cavity search can have an additional benefit to airline travel. Gung-ho TSA agents with wild hairs and little man syndrome can have a purpose. And normal people can move along normally.

  41. Malisha,

    Brain-washed couch potatoes are a distinctly different form of existential and actual threat to society although the effect does impact how many people think terrorism is a much greater threat than it actually is. Almost as much effect as it has on what detergent you use and your Cheetos and Coke consumption. ;)

  42. Kay and our lawyers here,

    I was among the first and am still one who welcomes your posts here. There are some that in their eyes would negligate your complaints because compared to others, and you mentioned a few today, they are negligible. I disagree.

    The point, other than your suffering, is the potential abuse which such legal manovers can cause ALL of us.

    Secondly, I have previously derided the lawyers here for their silence. But now I think I can see their dilemma.
    If JT’s becomes a place where litigants can seek pro bono help or sympathy, then the site would rapidly become overwhelmed of seekers and become a legal Lourdes—not a blawg as it is now. This may be what you already know, so regard it as a mea culpa from me to the lawyers here.

    However I have just today in correspondence suggested that if a system is not available in Virginia, that it should be established there as a trial. Namely a system whereby a lawyer list including specialty should be established with the requirement that some 25 –100 be up for assignment each month to, after specialty sorting, be blindly assigned to pro bono seekers.

    Why this you say, well for the same reason that some feel that those who receive the greatest benefits of the system should contribute the greatest taxes.

    After xx months the assigned lawyer would risk being reassigned for duty with an addditional litigant. Justice must be swiftor it is not justice, so should lawyers too.

  43. It’s up to “we, the people” now.

    “Obama 2.0”

    by Amy Goodman

    “In Obama’s second term, hope for change rests with us, the people”

    “A re-elected President Obama is a new chance to realise a better America, but it’s up to the citizens to make it happen”

    by Amy Goodman

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/08/obama-second-term-hope-change

    “Reportedly, FDR listened intently, then replied:

    I agree with everything you have said. Now, make me do it.

    That was the message Obama repeated.

    There you have it. Make him do it. You’ve got an invitation from the president himself.”

  44. The only ‘ray of light’ here is that the number of sheepole is only one thinrd, which means, logically, that TWO thirds reamin opposed.

  45. Feemeister,

    You scare the crap out of me, srsly. I was just talking to my niece last night and smoozing over the pleasure of visiting the family there.

    And here you come withfive reasons NOT to dare go there.
    The Swedes don’t speak to each other on buses, but not because they will be overheard. And if we had TSA on the streets here then folks would snap, and revolt.

    Skit, Swedes don’t even tolerate commercials, etc. in our NPR, which is subscriber paid, not taxes, and has 9 channels.

    Just a little tangent, a good one. Did you think reflecting on the differences between the Dem convent in
    1976 which we saw with Barbara Jordan’s keynote speech snd the DNC convention this year.

    How amateurish! But were the speechs less inspirinig and noble then. Not at all, because the reality and the aspirations were there.

  46. Idealist. my brainstimulator implant (for chronic pain), (battery looks like pacemaker) made me think the same. Right now I have to be wanded. i was surprised when at a courthouse a few eeks back that they were not concerned and let me go thru wihtout any security check. I guess they thght a short white girl who smiled could not be a threat (I’m not but you never know).
    anonymously posted1, November 9, 2012 at 7:59 am

    I didnt see a date so do not know when each oif these polls taken, the one cited in todays post and this one posted by I think Ay (?) from a previoous Turley post:

    “Despite the fact that this policy is already underway in some instances, a full 65% of American adults found TSA workers touching genitals “completely” or “somewhat unacceptable”. A further 35% of American adults found this “completely” or “somewhat acceptable”. More Republicans than Democrats (12% to 9%) were likely to find this “completely acceptable”.

    Asked how the TSA is performing in its screening duties at U.S. airports, 77% of American adults said the federal agency was doing an excellent, good or fair job. 23% of American adults thought the TSA was doing a not very good job or a bad job in its duties. Despite sustained negative media coverage of the agency’s activities, of that latter netcategory, only 9% in total thought the TSA was doing a “bad job”.

    As to the first I am astounded at the number who say is ok. I do wonder as suggested by others here if those polled really understand what cavity search means.

    As to the second you have to believe someone is protecting you, the facts to the contrary notwithstanding. Most want to know someone is watching out for those monsters under the bed.

    (As for my brain implant, it is a computer chip, the technology has been here for a while to take this and turn it into something nefariius)

  47. ” Almost as much effect as it has on what detergent you use and your Cheetos and Coke consumption.”

    But thanks to grocery store “discount cards,” the kind of detergent I use and my cheetos and coke consumption is already a matter of record and nobody needs to “search me” to figure it out. People who want to “search me” have to either put me in line at an airport, arrest me for nonpayment of a ticket I paid, or secretly notify me to be in court on October 1 and then issue a capias for my arrest for not showing up. And none of it would have happened if it weren’t for those terrorists depriving us of our freedom and trying to prevent us from speaking English, which I am obviously still practicing.

  48. About the electric shock bracelets? Why are we surprised?

    See, all those TV shows about all those kindly, caring, loving, selfless cops and authorities is paying off. “Wear my bracelet so I can protect you.”

    The approved answer is: “Oh thank you.”

    Nielson ratings can easily tell us what percentage of the American Public will go along with this.

  49. Gene said, “I don’t like people I don’t know touching me much less performing an invasive body cavity search. You better be my doctor acting on reasonable medical grounds or someone I love a lot to even try that. I promise you won’t like my reaction otherwise.”

    You and me both, we’d end up in jail. I refuse to fly and end up driving hundreds, sometimes thousands, of miles.
    —————-

    Obama could change things, but I have no expectation of it. The use of drones, the persecution of whistle blowers and journalists, the deportation of undocumented aliens, warrantless eavesdropping on phones and internet and email have all escalated hugely under him. Don’t expect him to give up the NDAA or his kill list. But do expect him to expand the use of drones to the US, and expand a NAFTA-like trade agreement to the Pacific.

  50. @ idealist

    I’m not looking for legal advise on this blog, more for publicity which I think I need to get the government to act legally.

    I was shocked last night because I found something that I never knew that no one ever told me and that really affects all the orders against pro se litigation. That is there is a Rule of Evidence # 201 Judicial Notice of Adjudicative Facts. So it turns out that a court can take notice of a court order or of a filing, but it can’t take notice of another court’s findings of fact. I found this in Section 1983 LItigation: Federal Evidence, 4th Edition, Vol. 3” by Martin A. Schwartz published in 2009 by Aspen Publishers. See Taylor v. Charter Medical Corp.162 F. 3d 827 (5th Cir. 1998) and Wyatt v. Terhone 360 F. 3d 446, 450 (4th Cir. 2004). So a court could notice that you filed150 lawsuits or that you filed documents with swear words but it can’t “notice” that you filed a “frivolous” complaint in another court. But the fact is that Courts do violate Rule 201 with pro se litigants by making assumptions that court fact findings in other courts are correct and should be repeated. See also Rule 54(a) “A judgment should not include … a record of prior proceedings.”

    It doesn’t even make sense that a court would not want to do a de novo review of a pro se case, unless they just hate pro se litigants because of prejudice or a feeling that they have too much work to do, because logically pro se cases are going to have a higher error rate because of the dirty tricks that lawyers frequently play on pro se litigants or failure of pro se litigants to know and plead their issues perfectly so a de novo review is more likely to find errors.

    ——–

    Another issue no one has brought up is Amtrack. When you buy an Amtrack ticket you basically agree to be searched, if you refuse you lose your ticket, I think is how it works.

  51. Idealist, you might want to just stay put!

    Check this one! This is the wonderful FEMA camps for those displaced from a disaster (what will they do when they start piling the dissidents in them?!

    http://www.app.com/viewart/20121109/NJNEWS/311090027/Oceanport-sandy-shelter

    And just in case you thought you were safe because you didn’t do anything wrong, there are people that have SWAT teams kick their doors in in the middle of the night, because they GOT THE WRONG ADDRESS! And God forbid you should try to defend yourself from people busting your door in; that’s not allowed. You have to be shot and tasered like a good little guilty person until proven innocent!

    And here’s another one for Florida (I give up)! This is in ST PETE, which is supposed to be the old folks town of Florida. I know these are super necessary!

    http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/20046476/2012/11/08/armored-truck-with-cameras-will-roam-st-pete-neighborhoods

    I’d like to find out how these things fit in with batshit conspiracy theories. These are IN YOUR FACE! Along with the 18 month old toddler on the NO FLY list! If you come here, you’re really taking your chances (and you would have been REALLY taking your chances if they hadn’t pulled that baby off that flight)!

  52. Stop this in a truly American Fashion. Advertise the TSA is offering cavity searches for free and ill bet there is one third of American who would line up for the procedure and there not going anywhere on a plane. That when it would either stop or become Americas favorite pastime.

  53. I’ll believe this when Nate Silver tells me this is so. Until then, I believe you all have been punked which, I guess, is pretty scary on it’s own merits.

  54. feemeister 1, November 9, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    bettykath, I don’t understand this. How does this kind of thing move our country ”forward?” I just don’t get it!
    ——————————

    I wasn’t suggesting that anything in that post just before yours was moving us forward. Forward to me does not mean greater enforcement of the police state.

    btw, Within 24 hours of the election Obama bombed Yemen.Obama has done the drone attack on them in the past. When did Congress declare war on Yemen? Did I miss it?

  55. leejcarrol,

    We are lucky recipients of medical tech.
    But nefarious tech, they have been dreaming of this since Aldous Huxley’s time.

    Just wait until they put a micro cell into it, then they can track where you are, and depending on other traced factors cut the pain nullifier on and off to onwz0re you, a SF story by Cory Doctorow. Get it a
    your library: “Eight stories and more”

    Nefarious? Love that, reminds me of old movies. And you, your use of it covers the whole shebang they are playing against us.

    PS We could, as in the story get control of it, and with some bacterial help get it attached to some brain centers which might lead to self indulgement, etc.
    But Doctorow says the bacteria can be commanded to cure cancer, cure colds, and build muscles too.

    Now Dredd has only to realize that with his bacteria world. Uh, Dredd, what about it?

  56. Congress stopped declaring war in the resolution after the fraud of Bay of Tonkin. See Ellsberg “secrets”. He received the live cables at max five minute intervals during the “attack”, and also revealed the lies which were told by Johnson. Nothing new, but nice that you remind us.

  57. bettykath, I wasn’t referring to a post by the ”moving us forward” line. That was taken from the Obama campaign! I’m assuming that since he brought in all those things mentioned, that that’s his idea of moving us forward!

  58. I heard some really scary stuff about Homeland Security. I heard they bought a lot of exploding killer bullets and that they built a lot of still empty detention centers.

  59. idealist, this guy in this video does a great job of explaining more about where TSA are now located, and gives more details about the poll that was done by Harris. I had forgotten the other thing. Most Americans think the TSA is doing a bangup job. But then, that would probably be because they listen to MSM where the bad things they do are not reported.

  60. “I don’t know if you heard, but the guy in charge for the next four years is the same guy that was in charge for the past four years”

    Sling T,

    No doubt Romney would have been a tenacious guardian of our freedoms.

  61. First off, keep in mind that this was a “Push Poll”. Asking the question in a clean way may have elicited a different answer or different percentages.

    I’d also bet that a few days of a flying strike over the TSA methods that hit the airlines in the pocketbook would see some changes made in the way TSA worked.

    From Wikipedia:
    Push Poll: “The term is also commonly used in a broader sense to refer to legitimate polls that aim to test political messages, some of which may be negative. Future usage of the term will determine whether the strict or broad definition becomes the most favored definition. However, in all such polls, the pollster asks leading questions or suggestive questions that “push” the interviewee towards adopting an unfavourable response towards the political candidate.”
    ***

    Kay, regarding Amtrak, TSA can ask to set up anywhere but apparently if the responsible authority asks them to leave or denies permission they have to leave. I need to do some more look-ups on that though:

    From article:
    “…. Here’s some background. The TSA’s appearance at train stations, bus stations, subways, and ferries may be “an ominous sign,” but isn’t new. Its so-called VIPR teams have been conducting random, unwarranted searches at venues other than airports since 2005.

    After the debacle in Savannah, Georgia, where TSA agents simply took over the Amtrak station and searched whomever they liked, including passengers after they got off the train, Amtrak Police Chief John O’Connor hit the roof. He told the TSA that its employees would never be allowed to set foot in an Amtrak station again without first asking permission, and if said permission was granted, they would have to be accompanied by Amtrak police.

    That’s why our reader saw TSA agents at New York’s Penn Station. So no, they haven’t been banned.

    On the other hand, if the TSA is told to leave by the owner of the real estate in question — train stations, subways, even airports — they must leave. That is a legal fact.”

    http://tsanewsblog.com/3679/news/amtrak-and-the-tsa/
    ***

    Also:
    “Union Station TSA Agents: Journalist Recording Their Activity Accused Of ‘Terrorism’ (VIDEO)”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/union-station-tsa-agents-_n_1710029.html

  62. feemeister,

    re: ”moving us forward”. I didn’t pay any attention to the campaign slogans so I misunderstood. Sorry.

  63. idealist707 1, November 9, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    Now Dredd has only to realize that with his bacteria world. Uh, Dredd, what about it?
    ===========================================
    What about what?

    I just said upthread:

    “Parts are parts … cavities are cavities … probes are probes …”

    CQ CQ CQ … This is John Conners … CQ CQ CQ … ;)

  64. Mike S.,

    Really how much worse could Romney have been about protecting our freedoms than Obama….. On that theater I think they are both POS…… Unless they somehow benefited they don’t care….so long as its not them that are affected….

  65. AY,

    How much worse? Reduction of women to second class citizenship. Voter intimidation and nullification. Return of the Cold War with Russia.
    Suppression and criminalization of gay people. No abortion, period. More war. More defense spending. End of the Safety Net. Destruction of Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare. I could go on and on, proving iy by listing Mitt’s own words and the Republican Platform.

  66. Mike S : “No doubt Romney would have been a tenacious guardian of our freedoms.”

    Obama is ‘not as bad as Romney might have been’.
    ‘Not as bad’ does not make him ‘good’.

    Good news people, there was a danger of a Category Five Huricane, but it’s only going to be Category Four or maybe even Three ….. *applause*

  67. SlingTrebuchet: “Good news people, there was a danger of a Category Five Huricane, but it’s only going to be Category Four or maybe even Three ….. *applause*”
    ***

    If you’re directly in its path that can be a hell of a difference. The difference between life and death in fact.

  68. The effect on someone in the path of a Category Five and a Four depends to a great extent on how well they are sheltered.

    For some/many there would be no great difference between a Five and a Four in practical terms. It’s just a bigger noisier number.
    It’s selective – even within a small geographic area. So it is with NDAA/TSA/etc.

    Tormados seem to kill more people than hurricanes?
    http://www.csccc.info/reports/report_23.pdf

    The incumbent Authoritarians in the Executive and Security functions are the elements that drive the societal weather conditions.
    Big Brother Obama is a slightly less warm ocean than Big Brother Romney.

  69. If your trip is less than a thousand miles you should consider driving a car. To board a plane one must get there very early, find a pakring space or find a ride to the entrance of the terminal, get the luggage to the desk, deal with a line and a line of crap, go through the security checkpoints and get a finger up the arse, walk a mile to the gate, wait, listen to fellow passengers yak on their earplug cell phones, look at the old stewardesses who should have retired, get on a plane next to a 300 lb snoring nun, sit on the runway, listen to yakkity yak about buckle up, worry about a plane being flown by the goof who says he is the Capt speaking, fly through storms and bump and hump and listen to the nun snore and blow snot on your shoulder, get to the ogther end and almost crash land, wait on the tarmac, dislodge, walk past the smug crew, go in, find luggage, walk a mile, get a cab or a ride to the next spot on earth not infringed by the above.,

  70. Dredd,

    If you would be so kind as to read her comments and my comments it might be apparent. Including book references, SA June issue references and examples, then it might clear up. ;-)

  71. “Obama is ‘not as bad as Romney might have been’. ‘Not as bad’ does not make him ‘good’.”

    SlingT,

    It does make him “good” in this respect: he will do less harm to fewer people.
    Our government has been in control of the elite for many years, if not the entire history of this country. Since o one has come along with viable options to redress this so far, I personally will always choose the option that will least hurt most of the people. I’ve been waiting a long time for a movement to coalesce of people who want to turn the system around. It hasn’t happened on the “Left” simply because too many people there will simply ot support a movement that is not perfectly tailored to their own beliefs. The belief of those who will only support their particular idea of perfection is that they will not make common cause with those who aren’t “perfect” by their lights.

    I disagree with many of Obama’s policies, such as preventive detention, drones etc. However, I am not so self involved with my own viewpoint, as to be unable to understand that one can be a decent person,yet see things differently than I do. There are many “Hawkish” people who honestly have convinced themselves that their actions protect the country. They are wrong in my opinion. Yet I can still support them electorally if many of their other beliefs coincide with mine.

    It is all well and good to hate Obama’s national security policies, but the fact is that from his own statements Romney’s own positions would go further than Obama’s. This was underscored by the fact that his foreign policy and security advisers were all former G.W. Bush insiders. On the other hand Obama’s domestic policies were far more enlightened than Romney’s. As I’ve stated here innumerable times before, when a movement arises that has a decent chance to overturn this Country’s Corporatist Plutocracy, I’m with it.
    I’ve in the past though followed far too many “Movements” that pretended to
    change the country, but they all failed due to their inability to organize a mass movement and because they were unable to reach out to people who did not perfectly match their political viewpoints. In the words of “The Who”, “I won’t get fooled again”.

  72. Well the idea w the administration is to influence them. I was sort of glad about CIA Director Petraeus before forced to resign because of concern that he might be blackmailed about his affair because what they are saying is exactly what I have been saying about how I think that the USMS imprisoned me because they were blackmailed with cell phone photos of them getting lap dances when they were guarding former judge Nottingham.

    Something else might happen that will really get people to focus on civil rights, due process etc. In the context of body cavity searches it could be a finding that someone is taking photos and selling them, that an imposter is paying to do the searches, or that random airport personnel have peep holes to watch some sort of security searches.

  73. I put a comment up last night at 8, and it is still awaiting moderation. Does anyone know what I might have done wrong? (I wasn’t mean to anyone. No video. It has a couple sites on it. This is the first time I ever had a post say that. I’m wondering what I did that was ”illegal?”

  74. Dredd,

    Not only you but LeeJCarrol and I beiieve in the possibilities of advnced nanotech on cell level. I put forward your bacterial symbiosis as a possible factor in stimulating and guiding the growth of nerve cells in the brain from implanted electronics to target cells which might be useed benignly or malignantly. We are dependent on you to watch the bacterial world for developments.

    OK? Was tired and more so now.. Naptime.

  75. Mike S,

    I agree with the thrust of what you say.

    A strong “movement” to change the order of things would have more chance if there were more reacting to the result with:
    “Great the Romney didn’t make it, but what a huge pity that we had to have Obama as the only other option that looked feasible.”

    Perhaps Darwinism will apply to movements. They will have to realise that they need to adapt.

  76. feemeister,

    I think that two hyperlinks is the limit on this blog.
    If you have more than two links, the post goes (forever?) into moderation – totally regardless of the content of the post.

  77. Here’s my part that was not off topic from last night (if this works now):
    Here’s some of the lovely TSA programs for our protection from all the terrorists in the street of the USA

    http://www.infowars.com/houstonians-revolt-over-tsa-on-buses/

    According to the following article, there were 9300 non announced TSA searches last year, which they are expanding on this year. Probably the VIPR searches that lottakatz mentioned above

    http://www.infowars.com/tsa-expands-invasion-to-ca-train-stations-bus-terminals/

    I asked two people who go to football games if they would have a problem being searched by the TSA before entering. Both of them said ”No, it will keep us safer!” Of COURSE I asked them had they not felt safe at football games before (and if they didn’t why did they GO to them), but all I got were eyerolls!

  78. feemeister

    I’ve read about people committing crimes so that they can go to jail for a warm place to sleep and medical care. The best is supposed to be federal prison and the best way to get get there is supposed to be robbing a bank, I guess a federally chartered bank.

    It’s not funny at all.

  79. Anonanon,

    I have a specific instance case where the guy broke out a window at the courthouse the first old snap in October. He got six months which was the maximum for this crime. He did it for three hots and a cot…..

  80. MikeS, “It is all well and good to hate Obama’s national security policies, but the fact is that from his own statements Romney’s own positions would go further than Obama’s. This was underscored by the fact that his foreign policy and security advisers were all former G.W. Bush insiders. ”

    Obama doesn’t need Bush insiders to go further than Bush. He already invaded Pakistan and Yemen without looking for an ok from Congress or the UN. His use of drones has escalated exponentially, his use of warrantless wiretaps has escalated exponentially, his prosecution of whistleblowers has escalated exponential, his persecution of journalists has escalated exponentially, his deportation of undocumented aliens has escalated exponentially. He signed the NDAA, he has a kill list. Need I go on?

    B/c of people on the left would who scream bloody murder if Bush or Romney did this, Obama gets away with it.

  81. “Perhaps Darwinism will apply to movements. They will have to realize that they need to adapt.”

    SlingT,

    This is quite true in its implications. The problems I’ve seen in in movements I’ve been in and movements I’ve observed, has been that they become rigid ideologically. If something doesn’t fit into their pre-conceived ideology, even if it might solve a problem they want solved, will be rejected without consideration.

    I’ve had people who I was agreeing with in conversation, attack me because I didn’t put my points exactly as they had been taught that they should be phrased. Back in the 60’s, when I was involved in radical union politics one of the groups that amused me the most was the Progressive Labor Party (PLP) faction who were Maoists. Their party line was so rigid that every six months, or so, there would be a purge, which would include their leaders. Eventually, they dissolved because of this, they had purged themselves out of business in their efforts to remain ideologically pure. Since one of their constant slogans was “organize” it was also fun to see them turn off the people they were trying to recruit. I was invited to a dinner one night at the home of a PLP couple. There was no grass, no alcohol and no dessert. All there was was a constant attempt to indoctrinate me to the cause. I waited until a discrete time after dinner and made excuses to leave early. months later during a debate on some issue or other at the union delegates meeting, one of them actually called me “a running dog of capitalism”.

    The other thing with movements that have to be watched for is that movements on the Left attract almost as many sociopaths with a “will to power” as on the Right. Although these ego driven psychos may seem to stand for the same things we do, it is only their perception of their best route towards gaining power. If that route is blocked, they take on another guise. Jerry Rubin, of the Yippies and Chicago 7 trial, wound up in the 80’s running social mixers for the privileged. Also Eldridge Cleaver of the Black Panthers, wound up as a designer of “Haute Couture” dresses.

  82. Elections 2012
    Green Party
    Jill Stein

    Election Day has come and gone, but official certified vote tallies may not be in for weeks, but early results totals have been cited on Green Party Watch. According to these early tallies, in the 38 states where Jill Stein was on the ballot, she took between 0.2 percent and 1.3 percent of the vote by state.

  83. I don’t think there is much of a movement on the left these days. Most progressives remain part of Obama’s coalition…. women, minorities lbgtq and young people.

  84. idealist707 1, November 10, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Dredd,

    Not only you but LeeJCarrol and I beiieve in the possibilities of advnced nanotech on cell level. I put forward your bacterial symbiosis as a possible factor in stimulating and guiding the growth of nerve cells in the brain from implanted electronics to target cells which might be useed benignly or malignantly. We are dependent on you to watch the bacterial world for developments.

    OK? Was tired and more so now.. Naptime.
    =========================================
    My research indicates that we only know the slightest about microbes at this point.

    There are millions of species of them that we know nothing about.

    I would call for a moratorium on any technology until we graduate thousands of microbiologists to become informed of that vast realm.

    I say that because I am informed by microbiologists that we know of way less than 1% of the total species within their ancient realm.

    What we know is that the vast majority of them are human friendly at a minimum, and at a maximum we could not exist without the friendly symbiont types that make up about 99% of the whole realm.

    But we can, as we study them, formulate hypotheses that must stand the test of time as we move along in the sure-to-be long lasting research.

    Bonnie already has discovered their language along with many words in that language (Microbial Hermeneutics – 2).

    Our antibiotics heretofore are hick shotguns shooting at noises in the dark, so that whole realm of medicine can be improved to be focused only on the renegades among them.

    Many, if not all, of the parasitic pathogen microbes that harm us, in my opinion, were damaged by the K-T Boundary Extinction Event, and have not recovered from that trauma (see Are Microbes The Origin of PTSD?).

    I suggest that we do some repair at the level you suggested, AFTER we fully and competently assess that entire realm of life first.

  85. Kay,

    If you included more than two links, your comments automatically go to moderation. There are four words that trigger moderation as well (f*ck, b*tch, b*stard and a**hole). If none of those are an issue, then WordPress my have misfired on the spam and/or moderation filters (it happens from time to time) or simply eaten the post (it simply sent it to limbo, which also happens from time to time).

  86. “According to these early tallies, in the 38 states where Jill Stein was on the ballot, she took between 0.2 percent and 1.3 percent of the vote by state.”

    SwM,

    Stunning. The Establishment is no doubt quaking in their boots. That sure taught them a lesson.

    As a contrast Eugene V. Debs, who founded the Social Democratic Party and ran for President as a Socialist had these results:

    “In his showing in the 1904 election, Debs received 402,810 votes, which was 2.98% of the popular vote. Debs received no electoral votes, and, with vice presidential candidate Benjamin Hanford, ultimately finished third overall.[16] In the 1908 election, Debs again ran on the same ticket as Benjamin Hanford. While receiving a slightly higher number of votes in the popular vote, 420,852, he received 2.83% of the popular vote. Again Debs received no electoral votes.[17] Debs received 5.99% of the popular vote (a total of 901,551 votes) in 1912, while his total of 913,693 votes in the 1920 campaign remains the all-time high for a Socialist Party candidate.[18] Running alongside Emil Seidel, Debs again received no electoral votes”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Debs

    The difference with Debs though was that he knew how to organize and also that many of his campaign planks were later to become law.

  87. Idealist, seems that part of the thread long gone about the implanting but I was reminded of many years ago when I was evaluated for the trigeminal neuralgia, As you may know any touch at all, even that if a slight breeze or wisp of hair can trigger horrendous unmitigated pain.
    The doctor evaluarting me was an eye doc with a germanic or austrian accent. He touched me, triggered my pain, then looked at the nurse. “This is how you do torture, you make it so all you have to do is touch them.”
    Chilling at the time, chilling still, and worse if someone like him is at the helm of companies that make implanted devices.

  88. We so often hear that flying is a privilege, not a right.
    US Code Section 40103
    A citizen of the United States has a pubic right – yes, right – of transit through navigable airspace.

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