Carter: The United States Has No Functioning Democracy

carterWe have been discussing the collapse of the American civil liberties movement and the attacks on the free press and privacy under the Obama Administration. As discussed in prior columns, we continue to refer to the United States as the “land of the free” despite a comprehensive reduction of civil liberties and due process in this country. The Snowden affair has put that record in sharp relief as the White House and Congress has joined together in barring the prosecution of perjury by high ranking officials and pursuing Snowden with close to unhinged rage. As previously discussed, our governing class has created a new American Animal farm. Long ago, American politicians adopted a type of dismissive paternalism toward the public as shepherds to so many sheep. Then one sheep goes and spooks the flock. The response has been bipartisan rage that has included demands to cut off aid to entire nations if they grant sanctuary to this whistleblower and even boycott the Olympics. The shepherds want Snowden made into mutton for stampeding the flock and no measure appears too extreme. Now Jimmy Carter has entered the fray and said what many citizens are saying in denouncing our duopoly. Carter told Spiegel “America has no functioning democracy.” Of course, you have to live in Germany to read such views.

Carter has rightfully pointed to the dramatic reduction of the United States as a moral authority in the world after Bush and Obama. He clearly views Edward Snowden as a whistleblower. Yet, the media has yielded to the demand of the White House that Snowden not be called a whistleblower. This is follows media allies who have attacked Snowden and even mocked his concern about coming back home. As for the refusal to call him a whistleblower, it seems part of the full court press to demonize Snowden or prevent favorable references to him. [It brings to mind the successful effort to convince media to call waterboarding “enhanced interrogation” in the media rather than “torture” as it has long been defined by courts] Snowden is a whistleblower in my mind. It is true that the Administration can argue that these programs were lawful to the Supreme Court’s precedent stripping pen registers of full constitutional protection in Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979). Many of us disagree with that ruling, but this is a new application of the precedent. While the government has long sought the information for individuals, the Administration is essentially issuing a national security letter against the entire population. Moreover, it does appear that violations have occurred in these programs.

Putting aside the legality issue, whistleblowers are defined more probably by public interest organizations. For example, The Government Accountability Project, a leading nonprofit handling whistleblowers, defines the term as “an employee who discloses information that s/he reasonably believes is evidence of illegality, gross waste or fraud, mismanagement, abuse of power, general wrongdoing, or a substantial and specific danger to public health and safety. Typically, whistleblowers speak out to parties that can influence and rectify the situation. These parties include the media, organizational managers, hotlines, or Congressional members/staff, to name a few.”

Snowden clearly fits that more common definition of whistleblower, even if the government contests the application of statutory protections. Many can legitimately question Snowden’s chosen means for objecting to this program. However, the hostile and dismissive treatment by the establishment reflects an obvious fear of the implications of this scandal. We saw the same full court press in defining Julien Assange in a way that avoids calling him a journalist or a whistleblower. He is just an Assange.

Carter’s voice at this moment is incredibly important. Most media has ignored such criticism of Obama and his authoritarian powers. Even the story on Carter has been given limited attention and only because smaller blogs have continued to spread the word. We are living in the greatest crisis of civil liberties in our history and the public is facing a unified front of all three branches against efforts to deal with erosion of the rights of citizens in this country. The question is whether the public will finally awaken to this peril. Carter’s courageous voice could not have been heard at a more critical time for this nation.

126 thoughts on “Carter: The United States Has No Functioning Democracy

  1. Yep.

    Good on you for telling it like it is, President Carter. You’ve been the only honest and personally decent President we’ve had within my lifetime even if you were hobbled by a hostile Congress.

  2. Thank you for discussing Jimmy Carter. I liked him. He took over after the Vietnam War and had a big debt and a country in trouble. His effort to cut deficit allowed the next President to know success. I agree with his views. We need to hear a logical mind today.

  3. We have lost our influence as a world power because we the people have lost our power – LIBERTY! #PatrickHenry. We are not what we once were.

  4. Wasnt it under Carters administration when the Shah was replaced with the radical Islamic Cleric Ayatollah Khomeini?

    Didnt Carter also praise Hugo Chavez?

    “President Chavez will be remembered for his bold assertion of autonomy and independence for Latin American governments and for his formidable communication skills and personal connection with supporters in his country and abroad to whom he gave hope and empowerment.”

    I am not so sure Carter understands liberty any better than any other Washington, DC politician.

    2014 vote none of the above.

  5. I agree with every word of this post. We do not have a democracy here in the United States. We have a kleptocracy. While espousing different things to their base of “sheep” each party has exactly the same goal – maintaining the status quo where they “split” the leadership and exclude any third party challenger.

    Each party has their turn in power and, each party has the same goals when they are in power – enriching themselves and their “owners”. And, I think it is abundantly clear that both parties have the same owners – Wall Street and the Corporate Elite. This is clear from their actions, which are very different from their words – which have no value at all.

  6. That a former President would state that this country is no longer a functioning
    democracy is quite significant, whatever one thinks of Jimmy Carter’s career. He is acknowledging the current state of affairs in our country and the fact that his statement received little attention in our media, illustrates how far this country has fallen from its purported ideals.

  7. Bron, good response, except in 2014 and 2016 vote for any candidate not a repo or demo. Give another party a chance and when they abuse their power (as they most certainly would given enough time), throw them out.

  8. Bron,

    Remember how the Shah returned to power in Iran?

    Aug 19, 1953:
    CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran

    The Iranian military, with the support and financial assistance of the United States government, overthrows the government of Premier Mohammed Mosaddeq and reinstates the Shah of Iran. Iran remained a solid Cold War ally of the United States until a revolution ended the Shah’s rule in 1979.

    Mosaddeq came to prominence in Iran in 1951 when he was appointed premier. A fierce nationalist, Mosaddeq immediately began attacks on British oil companies operating in his country, calling for expropriation and nationalization of the oil fields. His actions brought him into conflict with the pro-Western elites of Iran and the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi. Indeed, the Shah dismissed Mossadeq in mid-1952, but massive public riots condemning the action forced the Shah to reinstate Mossadeq a short time later. U.S. officials watched events in Iran with growing suspicion. British intelligence sources, working with the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), came to the conclusion that Mossadeq had communist leanings and would move Iran into the Soviet orbit if allowed to stay in power. Working with Shah, the CIA and British intelligence began to engineer a plot to overthrow Mossadeq. The Iranian premier, however, got wind of the plan and called his supporters to take to the streets in protest. At this point, the Shah left the country for “medical reasons.” While British intelligence backed away from the debacle, the CIA continued its covert operations in Iran. Working with pro-Shah forces and, most importantly, the Iranian military, the CIA cajoled, threatened, and bribed its way into influence and helped to organize another coup attempt against Mossadeq. On August 19, 1953, the military, backed by street protests organized and financed by the CIA, overthrew Mossadeq. The Shah quickly returned to take power and, as thanks for the American help, signed over 40 percent of Iran’s oil fields to U.S. companies.

    Mossadeq was arrested, served three years in prison, and died under house arrest in 1967. The Shah became one of America’s most trusted Cold War allies, and U.S. economic and military aid poured into Iran during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. In 1978, however, anti-Shah and anti-American protests broke out in Iran and the Shah was toppled from power in 1979. Angry militants seized the U.S. embassy and held the American staff hostage until January 1981. Nationalism, not communism, proved to be the most serious threat to U.S. power in Iran.

  9. “We are living in the greatest crisis of civil liberties in our history and the public is facing a unified front of all three branches against efforts to deal with erosion of the rights of citizens in this country.”

    Today will add more revelations. The judge rules on Manning’s guilt “for aiding the enemy” by exposing illegal actions by USGinc. Part of what she will rule on is this: by taking this illegal activity to a reporting source for publication, he in effect, aided our enemy. That is a breathtaking argument made by USGinc.

    This govt., in concert with a small group of extraordinary wealthy private contractors has eviscerated the rule of law. That is illegal. Gutting the Constitution is breaking the law. Carter is correct. All the facts point exactly to the conclusion he has come to. I hope more people will speak out.

  10. I just found out that she did not throw out the “aiding the enemy” charges. The implications are enormous both for Manning and our nation.

  11. OK, second try. My first comment was dropped.
    Great article, Professor!

    No, Info Wars is not a source.
    I respect, and admire, Jimmy Carter.
    I will reserve judgement on whether he said what’s been reported.
    Carter did not say anything directly to Der Spiegel.
    Carter attended a closed-door meeting of “Atlantik-Brücke,” Atlantic Bridge, in Atlanta.
    One reporter says that Carter made this remark. That reporter gave the story to Der Spiegel.
    So one person on this planet claims that Carter said this.

    All that said, I hope that Jimmy Carter said that. He should have said that.

  12. Bob K.,

    The story is also being reported at Huff Po . . . buried in the middle of their politics section.

  13. “After 1,000 days in pretrial detention, Private Bradley Manning yesterday offered a modified guilty plea for passing classified materials to WikiLeaks. But his case is far from over—not for Manning, and not for the rest of the country. To understand what is still at stake, consider an exchange that took place in a military courtroom in Maryland in January.

    The judge, Col. Denise Lind, asked the prosecutors a brief but revealing question: Would you have pressed the same charges if Manning had given the documents not to WikiLeaks but directly to the New York Times?

    The prosecutor’s answer was simple: “Yes Ma’am.”

    The question was crisp and meaningful, not courtroom banter. The answer, in turn, was dead serious. I should know. I was the expert witness whose prospective testimony they were debating. The judge will apparently allow my testimony, so if the prosecution decides to pursue the more serious charges to which Manning did not plead guilty, I will explain at trial why someone in Manning’s shoes in 2010 would have thought of WikiLeaks as a small, hard-hitting, new media journalism outfit—a journalistic “Little Engine that Could” that, for purposes of press freedom, was no different from the New York Times. The prosecutor’s “Yes Ma’am,” essentially conceded that core point of my testimony in order to keep it out of the trial. That’s not a concession any lawyer makes lightly.

    The charge of “aiding the enemy” is vague. But it carries the death penalty—and could apply to civilians as well as soldiers.

    But that “Yes Ma’am” does something else: It makes the Manning prosecution a clear and present danger to journalism in the national security arena. The guilty plea Manning offered could subject him to twenty years in prison—more than enough to deter future whistleblowers. But the prosecutors seem bent on using this case to push a novel and aggressive interpretation of the law that would arm the government with a much bigger stick to prosecute vaguely-defined national security leaks, a big stick that could threaten not just members of the military, but civilians too.” New Republic

    As to worry about infowars as a source (which actually doesn’t apply in this case, but it was brought up to discredit Carter)–that is an intellectual mistake called: “an argument against the man”. An argument must be based on its truth value, not on liking or disliking a person who makes it.

  14. For those who take exception to the source of news credited, here is the page via google translate:

    Translated – Ex-President Carter Condemned US Spying

    Here it is in the original German

    Today’s Spiegel is really taking the US to task on the spying:

    Here are the main articles on today’s

    The NSA apparently wants to expand its espionage activities in Germany: In Wiesbaden, a new high-tech interception center of the U.S. Army has been created. Now evidence is accumulating that American agents also want to use the facility.

    Commentary on the NSA Scandal, America is Sick

    Civil Rights vs Security

    NSA Spyware Program: One suspect and millions of people in their sights.

    Wikileaks Informant: Manning is threatened with life imprisonment.


  15. Blouise, Think he could possibly work for Infowars and Alex. They slowed down after the new black panthers , “Obama’s security force” didn’t cause any riots.;)

  16. Darren, I took exception to the elevation of the fringe website InfoWars. You might do a little research on Alex Jones and his crew at the SPLC website or even wikipedia for that matter.

  17. SwM,

    Yes, it’s shocking, in Amerika of a places, using a group of people’s work who consistently 24/7 promote Freedom/Liberty & Civil Rights as a ref. source to a news worthy story.

    No doubt Obama/Bush people should either waterboard torture the Infowars crew or just use a drone to take them out. (sarc off.)

    Aside from that when we post links here we help promote this site here & the other site we linked too.

    The bigger question is why some are so afraid of Alex Jones & his Infowars crew.

    If their info/opinions either false/corrupt/twisted it should be easy enough to discredit them publicly.

    Until then their audience is growing exponentially, just as I expect them same for Prof. Turley’s blog here.

    Many now believe the nation is in serious trouble & they are seeking answers to what’s wrong.

    That’s why they will end up finding sites like Infowars, ,Greg Hunter’s site USAWATCHDOG, etc..etc….

  18. SwM,

    Please explain to all of us what actions the SPLC was up to in the training camp that trained those who blew up the 165+ people in OKC & why didn’t they warn all those, including lil kids, that died.

    SPLC has creditability problems on that case & many others!

    The doc: A Noble Lie

    It’s free to watch on youtube.

  19. SWM

    I am familiar with the controversial nature of InfoWars, but if more conventional news outlets are not willing to take up the story, who is to be cited.

    Not all that is on controversial websites is false, I know they might lack creditbility, but sometimes they are correct. Often it is the case these sites are more brave to reveal certain news.

    Der Spiegel is more or less equivalent to Time Magazine in the US. But the source of the article was in German. So there can be issues in sourcing a news article that is not in the same language as the readers here.

    Yet, very little in the reporting of this from the larger news outlets.

    As of a couple minutes ago I googled “President Carter US No Longer a Functioning Democracy” . Nearly all of the hits on the first three pages on Google were from either news aggregators (like drudge), a few to, blogs such as dailykos and us, two to dailycaller and only one tied to a large news site (

    It doesn’t seem like at present the large news sources are too interested in this type of story here in the US. That in itself is troubling.

  20. Personally, I believe Infowars is a rightwing honeypot site run by USGinc. However, what I believe about them 1. is irrelevant to whether any story they discuss has independently verifiable truth value and 2. is irrelevant to what Carter said. Carter is making an important point about the state of affairs in the US.

    This is a govt. which has a secret court. It imprisons the innocent. It engages in torture. It sells weapons to every side of every conflict. It is surveilling the US and other nations through various methods. The executive branch has secret meetings wherein it decides to kill people. Citizens may “lawfully” be rounded up and put into indefinite detention.

    There is and has been collusion between Congress the administration and the courts to bring all of the above into place. If anyone claims this is indicative of a functioning democracy then place state how that is.

  21. Sorry for using that broad bush, I know plenty of people that are focusing on more important issues elsewhere.

    (Keep focusing all your attention on the 3 fools case,)

  22. @Jill : v.good comments. Thanks… and thanks for your part in the Manning case. You have already said it, so it does not bear a long repeat : what sort of society we will have is in the balance in this case and the others.
    These are transitional times.

    Re InfoWars as source : there is another angle that seems obvious and also makes the primary point of the post : how is it that this is the only source that is reporting what Carter said. (Now, apparently also HuffPo per above).

    That Pres.Carter could even say such a thing should be front page news and precipitate a full on debate. Maybe that debate that Obama said he wanted! (and likely is not ever going to happen).
    Essentially agreeing with @Mike Spindell above.

  23. **Jill 1, July 18, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Personally, I believe Infowars is a rightwing honeypot site run by USGinc. **

    Jill, infowars may well have tries to certain elements inside our govt.

    I wouldn’t describe infowars as rightwing though, politically I see them more as centrist, Libertarian-Liberal, made in the same mold as Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Madison etc….

    Note infowars is in basic lockstep with Professor Turley’s views on Civil Liberties & the legal system.

    Two nights ago Prof Turley was on NPR with 3 other guest re: the 3 fools case/Zimmerman/Martin/Obama.

    Two of the guest embarrassed themselves on air & completely ignored the legal arguments the jury had to consider as presented by Prof Turley.

    Propaganda for the masses at it’s worst.

    Their position, Forget the Facts, Forget the Law, we’re just here to push the political narrative of the US AG Holder & the WH’s Obama, AKA Kill the people’s Bill of Rights.


  24. Ya Darren,

    Good job on your Manning article the other day.

    I wanted to comment on it & post a video on the war crimes he exposed, but I ran out of time again. Like now & everyday;)

  25. If Jimmy Carter had any sense he would go on tv in favor of Trayvon and then blurt this stuff out while on tv live.

  26. Michael,

    Thank you. I also agree with Mike S. What he wrote bears repeating: “That a former President would state that this country is no longer a functioning democracy is quite significant, whatever one thinks of Jimmy Carter’s career. He is acknowledging the current state of affairs in our country and the fact that his statement received little attention in our media, illustrates how far this country has fallen from its purported ideals.”

    There is more about Manning’s charge in The Guardian. Mostly, it seems if you want to get real information about USGinc. you need to go to foreign sources. That says a lot!

  27. Gene,

    I am wondering if you think I participated in propaganda in anything I said above. If I did, will you point it out? If I did so I will correct it.

  28. None of us can know for sure who did a good job or not so good of a job, all we can do is attempt to put our best efforts forward & let Prof Turley’s 17 Million viewers decide for themselves.

    We’ll all know down the road.

    Res ipsa loquitur (“The thing itself speaks”)

  29. Jill,

    Not really. There is some speculation, but my one quibble is with characterizing the attack on InfoWars as ad hominem. They report a lot of flakey non-factual poorly evidenced dreck even though sometimes they do get it right (the rubric of just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you applies). The source is simply not as credible as other sources as a general rule. That being said, what was reported about Carter’s statements was also reported by other, more reputable news outlets (Der Speigel has a very good reputation for factual reporting) that don’t cater to conspiracy theory (sometimes at the expense of fact as with InforWars). Due to this circumstance, I have no issue with using InfoWars as a source, but it wouldn’t have been my first choice simply because of their generally questionable and sensationalistic reputation. It’s more a question of best evidence than ad hominem.

  30. “We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Let’s hope that we “love freedom enough.”

  31. Oh, and thanks for asking, Jill.

    It has been (and remains) a goal with the Propaganda 10 series of articles to educate (and thereby inoculate) people about the nature and methodologies of propaganda as an applied science. Considering the source is always critical in examining the propaganda value and intent of information.

  32. Gene, it is an ad hominem attack. All statements are required to be measured against evidence, even statements by very dodgy sites or people. For me, for example, the pope is a very dodgy person whom I would be unlikely to give much credence to at all. However, if he makes a claim about something that I am engaging intellectually, I am required to evaluate it on evidence, not my like or dislike of him as a person.

    Using a source of information to discredit that evidence is a common practice. In an age of lies and liars, it is important for all of us to maintain evidence based thinking even in cases where we do not like a site or person.

  33. Considering the source is important, I agree. Nevertheless, any source may be correct or incorrect. The way to know that is to check what the source is saying against evidence. This is truly important when engaged in finding out the truth. Only evidence rules something in or out, not past behavior, not ideology, not anything but evidence.

  34. Jill,

    Don’t confuse Jones the person with his programming, content and practices as a nominal journalist and news outlet. Just because there is evidence from more credible sources as to Carter’s statements does not negate the other odious reporting habits found on InfoWars in general. It’s no more ad hominem than attacking the credibility of something like the National Enquirer as a source.

  35. Gene,

    As you know SwM has been posting to this site as far back as the days of Patty C … she knows how to source … even foreign press links.

    (OT … I started posting within a week or so after Patty C left, as far as I can ascertain, and I wish I’d had a chance to get to know her.)

  36. Gene, I am not confused about infowars or Alex Jones. As I said above my personal opinion is that site is a rightwing honeypot for USGinc. I have no quarrel with saying many things Jones does are odious. It doesn’t matter if you want to call Jones a journalist or just an idiot with a media backdrop. If he makes a claim that you have an intellectual interest in, you are bound by intellectual honesty to evaluate that claim by reference to evidence.

    Even the National Enquirer has gotten things correctly.

    Glenn Greenwald has been accused of not being a journalist either. This cannot negate the truth value of the information he published. We’ll just need to agree to disagree about what matters as far as truth value is concerned.

  37. Gene,
    HuffPo is using the same source, Der Spiegel, which is the same one person reporting what Carter said.
    There’s no transcript.
    As I said, I hope Carter said it. I hope he says it in public, where more than one person can quote him.
    If people pester Carter enough, he’ll tell us whether he really said that, and he’ll say it again.
    Someone needs to take a video of Carter saying it.

    As for Info Wars, it’s quite possible that they could report the truth, just from random babbling.
    Alex and his buddies would never deliberately tell their dittoheads the truth, but I’m sure they slip up, now and then.
    Just because you’re profoundly ignorant, doesn’t mean you’re not manipulative. Sarah comes to mind.

  38. Bob K.,

    That’s why I have a lesser issue with InfoWars on this particular story: they are not the primary source. One thing I think it is safe to say is that if Carter was misquoted, he won’t be shy about making a clarification.


    Now that was propaganda. The disagreement isn’t about truth. It’s a disagreement about what constitutes an ad hominem attack and what constitutes best evidence. “Right” sometime doesn’t change the fact that in general InfoWars (and the National Enquirer) are generally not trustworthy sources. They get a lot of things simply wrong. Much of what they report is whole cloth fabrications. They are generally not best evidence even remotely.

    However, that being said, most who attack Greenwald are engaged in pure ad hominem and without merit. From what I’ve seen, his personal reporting practices are performed to a very high standard of evidence and professionalism compared to many. That his efforts make some in power so uncomfortable that they resort to trying to smear him directly for exposing their wrong doing is simply a sign of the efficacy of his work.

    There is no comparison in the quality of journalism between a Glenn Greenwald and an Alex Jones.

  39. Gene,

    I’ve stated my case and you have stated yours. I will let my words stand as is. Any further comments I make are strictly on what Carter said. That is what I care about and that is what I will comment on.

  40. Back to the original proposition : The US has no functioning Democracy.

    This is a point in favor of the proposition.

    “The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit has dealt a terrible blow to Chris Hedges, Daniel Ellsberg, Noam Chomsky and the other activists and journalists suing to prevent the indefinite military detention of American citizens.

    Sections 1021 and 1022 of the National Defense Authorization Act for 2012 would allow the military to detain indefinitely persons who are deemed to consort with terrorists or those who commit “belligerent acts” against the United States. Journalists, whose job it is to do just that, would undoubtedly qualify, Hedges has argued.

    The plaintiffs have had successes and setbacks in court.

    Here is what Hedges wrote after Wednesday’s decision:

    This is quite distressing. It means there is no recourse now either within the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branches of government to halt the steady assault on our civil liberties and most basic Constitutional rights. It means that the state can use the military, overturning over two centuries of domestic law, to use troops on the streets to seize U.S. citizens, strip them of due process and hold them indefinitely in military detention centers. States that accrue to themselves this kind of power, history has shown, will use it. We will appeal, but the Supreme Court is not required to hear our appeal. It is a black day for those who care about liberty.

    I suppose what also interests me about the proposition is that no one on this blog has offered any opposition to it. (Unless I missed something?) Is that not itself a data point?


  41. Anonymous 1, July 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    “We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Let’s hope that we “love freedom enough.”
    Very true.

    But it is not that we love it enough.

    It is that we do not have an adequate idea about what it is and is not.

    We think it is a commodity delivered by the military.

  42. Elaine:

    And your point is? A westernized semi-dictator for a vicious 8th century barbarian dictarship isnt even a toss up.

    You and Bush wanting to spread democracy all over the globe. :)

  43. Duopoly! We ain’t got No Stinkin Duopoly!!,.. Why just yesterday Harry Reid put his Big Boy pants on and after 5 years of possing and vinigering He has a tentative deal to get an up and down vote for 7…er 5 of Obamas executive appointments.
    WOW, one of Huff po headlines was “Mitch Slapped” ….as if a functioning Senate has to resort to threats to intimidate each other to pass consent on a Presidential appointment.
    This is a Dysfunctioning Washington DC. Except the dysfunction seems to be lining the pockets and future pockets of the exceedingly rich.

    Methinks the dysfunction is well-guided and most profitable to a select few.

  44. It seems this thread is derailing.
    . Not sure how the issue of conflating the US with N.Korea/Iran got into the conversation. It isnt part of the original statement or post as far as I can tell..
    . The point about Gates et al, seeking to reduce the population (euphemism for kill? genocide?) is quite far from the discussion of the core proposition whether America has a functioning democracy. Besides being fatuous on the face of it. (Some solid evidence/documentation is in order if you’re going to toss out that level of accusation.)
    . and etc…

    I think, or thought, there was a valid conversation to be had about this question/assertion: Does America has a functioning democracy? It certainly is germane to current events. I hope we can return this discussion to this point.

  45. Well … hyperbole doesn’t usually work to persuade and it doesn’t here either with me. Carter is right that we are regressing on basic civil liberties and that needs to be shouted from the rooftops (and if the polls are any indication, it is working) but to suggest that we are even in the same dimension as Iran and North Korea does him no credit. We have plenty of problems with our democracy but saying it doesn’t exist simply adds fuel to those America-haters –home and abroad — who find everything we do as the source of evil in the world. Carter is an honorable person and one with a high degree of principle. The problem is that a leader needs those qualities tempered by the judgment to balance them against the nation’s interest in preserving itself. Those who would let the heavens fall so that principle might triumph never ran a nation state or stood for election. Jimmy Carter never learned that lesson and the results are obvious.

  46. Blouise:

    You would have liked PattyC. Deeply Worried, PattyC, and I had some wonderful discussions on the blog only briefly interrupted by personal vignettes and even a recipes or two thrown in.

    Like I said, you would have liked PattyC. I do.

  47. Mark,

    I too liked Patty C. a whole lot. She and you and Bob es., pre-dated me on the blog and helped draw me in.

    As for whether this country is better than those you’ve mentioned, yes it is. Nevertheless, this country has devolved spectacularly from the ideals of it’s founders and our democratic rights are fast becoming distant memories.

  48. Gene,

    Regarding your back-and-forth with Jill about sources and their credibility, you state: “It’s no more ad hominem than attacking the credibility of something like the National Enquirer as a source.”

    This reminds me of the notorious Larry Flynt, publisher of Hustler Magazine — an unapologetic porn rag — who caused Representative Bob Livingston to resign as Speaker of the House (minutes after his swearing in) because Flynt threatened to publish certain facts concerning Representative Livingston and a female lobbyist with business before his House committee. Railing against the sleazy Flynt, Representative Livingston called him “a bottom feeder.” Replied Flynt:

    “Sure, I’m a bottom feeder. But look what I found when I got down there.”

    Sometimes the disreputable bottom feeders have the facts in hand and do good work with them. Sometimes.

  49. Like Bush/Cheney before, I believe, Obama, Leahy, Levin, Reid & other leaders have knowingly used insurrection,war, riots & treason to subvert the intentions of the US Constitution & it’s Bill of Rights.

    I have no idea why they decided to destroy their own Democratic party but they have with their on going attacks against the people’s Rights.

    With public support having fell off the cliff it could be, that in order to stop the hemorrhaging of supporters fleeing, Carter was rolled out in public to offer hope to disenchanted former supporters of the DNC.

    Or maybe Carter made the comments on his own without pressure from somewhere?

    What have you done personally?

    What does seem apparent is the exponential growth of Americans that are going public & refusing to go along this modern authoritarian type Nazi govt Clinton’s/Bushes/Obama having been building.

    So much so is the case thousands of them got off their butts & made over 600 original videos in an online/ongoing protest against DC’s Fascism.

    Here are the first half of them. Some bad, some good, some great.

    I’ve crewed though some of them, but not all of them.

    Operation: Paul Revere

  50. No, we do not have a functioning democracy and things are getting worse everyday: “A version of this post originally appeared on the ACLU Free Future blog in 2012. It has been updated and cross-posted with permission from the author.

    UPDATE: The judge ruled today she would not dismiss the ‘aiding the enemy’ charge. Manning can still be found not guilty.

    Today, the military judge overseeing the court martial of Pfc. Bradley Manning, who has admitted to giving government documents to WikiLeaks, is expected to rule on the prosecution’s charge of “Aiding the Enemy.” The charge, which is akin to treason and is punishable by death, is separate from the charges that Manning has already pled guilty to — that he leaked sensitive documents to people unauthorized to receive them. The government’s inclusion of this charge raises enormous problems, and a conviction of Manning in these circumstances would be unconstitutional.

    The key to the government’s case is this simple claim: that posting intelligence information to the internet aids Al Qaeda because Al Qaeda has access to the internet.*

    The implications of the government’s argument are breathtaking. To understand why, it helps to recall the experience of another soldier. In December of 2004, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld held a town-hall style meeting for troops who were preparing to deploy to Iraq. Following his remarks, Rumsfeld was confronted by an Army specialist who complained about the inadequacy of the combat equipment provided by the military.

    “Our vehicles are not armored,” said Specialist Thomas Wilson, an airplane mechanic with the Tennessee Army National Guard. “We’re digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass that’s already been shot up . . . to put on our vehicles to take into combat. We do not have proper vehicles to carry with us north.”

    The soldier’s question — and Rumsfeld’s now infamous response that “you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have” — were front-page news around the world. And while war cheerleaders like Rush Limbaugh accused Specialist Wilson of “near insubordination” for embarrassing the defense secretary in a public forum, there was no suggestion in serious quarters that he face punishment — much less prosecution — for his words.

    Yet the government’s decision to prosecute Manning for “Aiding the Enemy” threatens to make public comments like Wilson’s grounds for criminal prosecution. The government does not contend that Manning gave any information to Al Qaeda, or even that he intended that Al Qaeda receive it. Rather, it claims that Manning “indirectly” aided Al Qaeda by causing intelligence information to be posted on WikiLeaks’ website, knowing that Al Qaeda has access to the internet. Specifically, the government contends that Manning violated Article 104 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which provides that “any person who . . . gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly; shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.”

    Article 104 is not limited to sensitive or classified information — it prohibits any unauthorized communication or contact with an enemy. So, if the government is right that a soldier “indirectly” aids the enemy when he posts information to which the enemy might have access, then the threat of criminal prosecution hangs over any service member who gives an interview to a reporter, writes a letter to the editor, or posts a blog to the internet.

    For example, there are now more than a thousand enlisted military bloggers. According to Stars and Stripes, “Army officials . . . encourage troops to blog as long as it doesn’t break any operational security rules, and they see it as a good release for servicemembers.”

    Are these bloggers aiding the enemy? Prior to Bradley Manning’s case, charging anyone with that crime in the absence of any allegation or evidence that he had intended to aid the enemy would have been inconceivable.

    The crux of the government’s case against Manning — that he leaked sensitive documents without authorization — in no way depends on branding him a traitor. Indeed, some courts have held that leaks may be punished even if the leaker’s motive was purely patriotic. In its zeal to throw the book at Manning, the government has so overreached that its “success” would turn thousands of loyal soldiers into criminals.

    Which brings us back to Specialist Wilson — and, for that matter, Donald Rumsfeld. Both men spoke openly about the vulnerability of U.S. forces in Iraq. Both men surely knew that the enemy would watch their exchange on television or read about it on the internet. The notion that Wilson and Rumsfeld broke the law by communicating this information to the media and thereby “indirectly” aiding the enemy is absurd — but no more so than the government’s contention that Bradley Manning did so.

    *The military judge has previously ruled that prosecution does not need to prove Manning had the specific intent to “aid the enemy” to be convicted.”

  51. MM,

    True enough, but it’s that “sometimes” that presents the credibility problem. Veracity ultimately rests on verification and validation of proof.

    I’d still like to have been in Livingston’s office when he found out about that. I bet you could see every vein on his head throbbing. He was always a weasel.

  52. oky1,
    I prefer to deal with facts not guesses.
    While I agree that we have lost too many liberties, I agree with Mespo that we should not be grouped with Iran and North Korea. I would like to see some more reporting on the statements by Carter. As suggested earlier, we have had no more moral person in the White House in my lifetime than Jimmy Carter.

  53. How is it Americans are unable to prioritize their efforts?

    We witness yet again many of them being sucked into another one off OJ type case for the personal entertainment I guess?

    Just slowing down, gawking at the latest car wreck & thinking about banning cars?

    MADD brought attention to drunk drivers. I have no idea what the stats were before MADD & after.

    But I am wondering the stats of the exponential growth of cancers & human mutations.

    I believe the Price/Anderson Act is unconstitutional. That it’s illegal, color of law, for the govt to grant liability protection to one individual, a group or an industry at the expense of those that have been harmed.

    But to date no lawyer has undone the Act.

    It seems to me if people wished to prioritize their efforts & be entertained by tragic car wrecks at the same time they’d be all over the Fukushima case & the world Jap/GE nuke disaster.

    It’s been raining down radiation over the USA/World for over two years now.

    Does the US legal community believe the Price/Anderson Act also shields a foreign nation from damaging you/me, our families/friends & our property?

    How many cancer tumors, human mutations & related deaths have there been of family/friends of MADD vs the the number of drunk driving deaths & injuries of the same?

    I’m interested in prioritizing seeing those stats & the legal standing surrounding that issue.

  54. **rafflaw 1, July 18, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    I prefer to deal with facts not guesses.
    While I agree that we have lost too many liberties, I agree with Mespo that we should not be grouped with Iran and North Korea. **


    That’s a respectful response & opinion yet, I respectfully submit, that does not prove the case.

    Of course we all demand that it be the case.

  55. Oops, stike that last comment, here’s the corrected version:

    ** I agree with Mespo that we should not be grouped with Iran and North Korea. **


    That’s a respectful response & opinion yet, I respectfully submit, that does not prove the case.

    Of course we all demand that it be the case.

  56. You know what has replaced the “Godwins Law” standard on this site? The “Ad Hominem Dissection”. Srsly, I just grow weary. :-)

    I periodically cruise the rightwing blogs because they jump on any story to discredit the left and the President/government even if it isn’t on point. There are stories that turn out to be (mostly) true after some searching but just don’t engage the interest of the MSM. Complaining about finding a story and Infowars being the source (or early aggregator) is akin to complaining about finding your true love (or temporary love) in a dive- you find it where you find it, it doesn’t define you or the tavern.

    Okey1, I use Fairwinds but has interesting info for Fukushima, they’re a good jumping off place. Things are not going well at Fukushima at all.

    If President Carter said it I’m glad, it needs to be said by someone with his gravitas. He was always my favorite President though I disagreed with him on some issues of substance.
    Mespo, Patty C had interesting things to say but she was a relentless bully. She didn’t leave, she was asked to leave. Just say’n.

    Regarding Carter, he was an ideolog based on major part his christianity, he didn’t bend easily and as a consequence I had some deep differences with his policies/actions. Oddly enough, that same ideology informed the things about him that I respect. I think that his remarks, if they were his remarks, can be viewed as an assessment of potential and a recognition of the harm done to the Constitution. I liken the current power of the government as that old cliche’ an iron fist in a velvet glove- everything kind of looks the same but it isn’t, not at all, and the full menu of options that the government has now assumed to itself to control and suppress the citizenry has not been revealed widely or publicly.

  57. Is the USA worst the Iran & North Korea?

    I’m collecting stats as I find them on US/world deaths & injuries.

    I guess a new hobby?

    Part of the reason is I suspect that when the stats come in the death/injuries numbers caused by Clintons/Bushes/Obama’s action will be far greater then even WW2.

    How could I even think such a thing?

    As just one example I can point to this.

    Bill Gate of Micosoft, with the help of Obama’s buddy Warren Buffet & Gate”s foundation, there is video footage of Bill Gates saying that the world’s population is expected to grow to 9 billion in a few years.

    Further, That through the use of his foundation & the World Health Org. that they intend to use vaccine programs & health care to “Reduce” that 9 billion by 10-15% or 1.35 billion people.

    Yes, it could mean prevent pregnancy or it could mean the spread of deadly deasase through the use of vaccines as there are already cases known to have happen that way.

  58. Michael,

    I’m posting this & continuing paying respect to my brother, family members & friends.

    It’s the original link or the only link I have on this & other subjects regarding the same type dimociode.

    Dr. confesses Cancer & other Viruses is found in Vaccines

  59. lottakatz:

    “I liken the current power of the government as that old cliche’ an iron fist in a velvet glove- everything kind of looks the same but it isn’t, not at all, and the full menu of options that the government has now assumed to itself to control and suppress the citizenry has not been revealed widely or publicly.”

    I think that is a brilliant observation. I think it is why people feel so uneasy without being able to articulate why.

  60. LK,

    If it’s any consolation, I’m ready for a new fallacy de jour too. :D

    Great comment, btw.

    I know we’ve talked about John Brunner before, but I think it was “Stand on Zanzibar”. Have you read his “Shockwave Rider”? He was fairly prescient about the pervasive surveillance state in it. Good read. Almost as good as SOZ.

  61. Long ago, American politicians adopted a type of dismissive paternalism toward the public as shepherds to so many sheep. Then one sheep goes and spooks the flock.
    They are no longer Shepherds (if they ever were,,,,), they are wolves.

  62. Oky1,
    My comment was an opinion based on unfounded claims that we are as bad as Iran and North Korea. Since there was no hard evidence to back what I consider a wild claim, I had nothing to prove. Besides, can North Koreas access a site lie this and can they legally, and safely criticize thir governments?

  63. Can we please not get into a paranoid rant about vaccines?

    I agree that the original thread, about a non-functional democracy, is a fine topic of discussion. Whether or not Jimmy Carter said anything about it.

  64. Woosty=^..^ “They are no longer Shepherds (if they ever were,,,,), they are wolves.”

    My first impulse was a generalized snark (not to you) ‘they’ve always been wolves’ but I can’t say that’s correct for the past. There were people that I didn’t particularly ‘like’ but I didn’t attribute that dislike, which was basically a disagreement over policy, to them being morally corrupt or knowingly attempting to destroy the Constitution. I don’t ever recall feeling that way about virtually all of the elected representatives at the national level and in most states. Now I think of virtually all (I could fill a handful with those I think of as exempt) of them as enemies of democracy. I didn’t change that much but Washington and many states did.

  65. Gene, I don’t recall reading Shockwave Rider but I may have. I would become interested in an author and go out, buy all their books and do a marathon read. I recall something like that with Brunner but I admit it’s a great way to OD and end up not remembering much about what I had read. It would be like watching a landscape unfolding; the major topography of a point of view and aggregate philosophy was there but I don’t remember any of the particular features. LOL, I get several chapters into books and realize I’ve already read them regularly. I think I’m doomed to just keep rereading the books I’ve previously read until I die. (Insert ‘easter egg joke/senility’ here.) I will check our vast and grimy with dust library and see If I’ve got it or just request it from the local library. Thank’s for the recommendation.

  66. LK,

    How nice for me to feel that weaving an author’s works into a long narrative mentally, but losing the ability to particularize the specific book, is not merely a defect of my mind. I have done the same as you for most of my life, including unknowingly buying and re-reading books I’ve read. I know that I’ve read both Stand on Zanzibar and Shockwave rider, but it’s only Brunner’s perspective and the accuracy of the future he predicted that stays with me. I think it’s time to re-read it again. Damn Gene and his peerless memory, which makes me feel illiterate. It’s guys like him, Mark and Bob esq., whose intellectual acumen evokes a kind of self effacing awe in the rest of us, who “merely” synthecize great ideas into our own personal narratives. :)

  67. What a mess of a conversation. Well, some say democracy is messy. If this comment section is any example I’d have to say “democracy” is alive and well in America…Not necessarily good thinking nor some sense of being able to carry a point for more than a post or two. But, for all that, we certainly have “free speech”.
    Abandoning this thread as lost….

  68. Carter is a brilliant human…… I’m pleased he is doing the right think…..

    Now, if we could just get rid of the new police devices that read and logs all vehicle license plates….. Hmmmm…. I wonder what level of privacy we have left…..

  69. Didnt Carter also praise Hugo Chavez?

    “President Chavez will be remembered for his bold assertion of autonomy and independence for Latin American governments and for his formidable communication skills and personal connection with supporters in his country and abroad to whom he gave hope and empowerment.”

    And you’re saying what, about that? It’s a totally true statement re President Chavez, who was likely assassinated by U.S. interests becuz he, like several other nations we either have destroyed, or are in the process of, stated he was going to use another currency for all future petroleum dealings, rather than the bloated, corrupt, inflated, interest laden American dollar. Our empire building bumblers in Malfunction Junction (aka WashDC) and their bankster handlers and thugs, cant allow that to happen.

  70. wow dood, all ya gotta do is google billy-bobb gates–watch some of his speeches, interviews, &c on youTube, and the great socialist hisself will inform you he wants to reduce the worlds population.

  71. Michael B,

    Discussions here are at times messy because so many of us here take the original proposition and run with it bssed on our own perceptions. I agree though that the basic issue is the idea of whether the US still functions as a representative republic, much less a democracy. My own view is that it no longer is a functioning republic. I see it as a feudalistic oligarchy, where some freedom remains for us masses, simply because the oligarchs are too self centered to cooperate. My fear is that a strong leader will arise who is so sociopathically remote, like Hitler, or Stalin and the ballgame will be over, so to speak. A great movie meditation on this was in Visconti’s “The Damned”, from the 60’s. It showed a powerful industrial dynasty in pre WWII Germany who backed Hitler, thinking they could control him, only to be destroyed by the NAZI’s they helped put in power.

    The issue of what is happening to our country is far too urgent to argue it in terms of individual political memes, like Left and Right, but then again those memes are the fodder for the propaganda that has allowed this state of affairs to come about.

  72. I wonder how HUGE the bounty reward was, for the country that took Snowden into custody.? Seems the USA is a lot closer to Imperialism.

    The aircraft carrying Morales had been in the air for over three hours after departing from Moscow on July 3, when France, Spain, Portugal and some other European governments declared the closure of their airspace to it.

    The Latin American leaders further expressed outrage over the incident, dismissing it as a violation of national sovereignty and a slap in the face to a region that has suffered through humiliations imposed by Europe and numerous US-backed military coups.

    Describing the forced-landing in Vienna of the presidential aircraft as “a serious incident,” the 120-member movement expressed outrage over “endangering the life of the president of a developing country and his entourage despite the fact that government leaders and the aircraft carrying them are under immunity based on international laws.”

  73. Mike,

    “Damn Gene and his peerless memory, which makes me feel illiterate. It’s guys like him, Mark and Bob esq., whose intellectual acumen evokes a kind of self effacing awe in the rest of us, who “merely” synthecize great ideas into our own personal narratives.”

    If it’s any consolation, in some people it only evokes anger, resentment and frustration. :D

  74. I really hate to say it after serving in the navy for 7 years as an AT ( Avionics Technician), that there is no hope anymore to change things. nothing is changing for the better even though people are waking up. Corporations the police and the government are tightening the net around the regular joe. The only way to truly leave this is to go to another contry and give up your citizenship.

  75. Gene,
    Yes, I take great umbrage at your peerless memory. Your memory should peer occasionally, like the rest of us.

  76. Mike S: “How nice for me to feel that weaving an author’s works into a long narrative mentally, but losing the ability to particularize the specific book, is not merely a defect of my mind.”

    It may actually be but at least we are in it together. We should look upon it as an evolved, macro-based form of literary appreciation. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

  77. LK,

    Works for me, now if only I could remember my cell phone number when the customer service rep asks.

  78. davidbluefish, I read this morning that an ex-CIA station chief had been taken into custody in Panama. Maddow had a segment on it tonight. The station chief was stationed in Italy and he and his confederates were responsible for the kidnapping of 23 people in Italy for rendition to black-sites. Italy didn’t like that and tried him in absentia, found him guilty and sentenced him to jail. The CIA guy was though, long gone.

    Now Italy has requested extradition of the felon back to Italy and INTERPOL has issued a warrant for him. Italy doesn’t have an extradition treaty with Panama which further complicates things.

    When I heard the story the first thing I thought of was that regarding Morales, there’s more than one way to skin a cat for the insult.

    My disgust for the treatment of Bolivia’s President does not abate. I can not think of a more extraordinary act, or degrading signal to send, to a previously colonized continent or any non-European country.

  79. Jimmy Carter was the last president who was unafraid to speak the truth to the American people, and he was pilloried for it. He recognized that the greatest source of our influence in the world was the almost universal perception that the United States lived by its ideals. And he understands that our response to the events of 9/11 has been the abandonment of moral leadership. My support for Pres. Obama was predicated primarily upon my perhaps naïve belief that he was committed to the restoration of that leadership, and I have been bitterly disappointed for reasons which I’m sure readers of this blog have wearied of reading.

    Gene H. raised the issue of the need for a third party a couple of years ago. Despite the fact that my brain tells me that that sort of undertaking would be quixotic, I nevertheless find myself thinking about it more and more frequently. .

  80. Infowars has more actual facts that the mainstream media will never have the balls to report.

    The fact is there are crackpots on EVERY news site. Huffington is filled with mindless Obama drones.

    To be frank, Id rather deal with conspiracy nuts than blind zealots any day.

  81. Peerless hingecuffs?


    Expressed like a true retired LEO, or “Peerless Fosdick”. I first encountered the word as a boy reading about Chicago Cubs first baseman Frank Chance, who was known as “The Peerless Leader”.

  82. Anonymous: Too many people define freedom as the ability to sit down and watch “Dancing With the Stars”, and are content to leave it at that.

  83. Mike Spindell comments,

    “The issue of what is happening to our country is far too urgent to argue it in terms of individual political memes, like Left and Right, but then again those memes are the fodder for the propaganda that has allowed this state of affairs to come about.”

    The Created Divide, I suggest two, there are many more.

    The Court issued its decision on January 22, 1973, with a 7-to-2 majority vote in favor of Roe. Burger and Douglas’ concurring opinions and White’s dissenting opinion were issued along with the Court’s opinion in Doe v. Bolton (announced on the same day as Roe v. Wade). The Court deemed abortion a fundamental right under the United States Constitution, thereby subjecting all laws attempting to restrict it to the standard of strict scrutiny.[22]

    I was born in 1954, first voted in 1972. ….. McGovern leaned towards legalizing marijuana ….he got my vote! :o). I am much more politically sophisticated and mature now…(sort of).
    …2012 Marijuana is still illegal, abortion is still on the front burner and boiling over.

    Forty years these issues have not been settled. Ten presidential election cycles lines have been drawn, ears have been closed, divisions have been encouraged.

    The marijuana issue is huge, if you have a felony conviction for possession of a road side ubiquitous weed, If you or a loved one could be relieved of a medical difficulty by its usage, And yes the issue is huge if as an adult you may wish to participate in experiencing its relaxing effects on a warm summer evening, but the neighbor smells its odor and calls the police to your home. Some of the stories on this blog relate the tremendous difficulties that may entail.

    The abortion issue has permanently divided and created feral enemies out of maybe 20% (?) of the electorate. The zealous pro life advocates are unreachable to political philosophies or choices without conforming to their single issue demand. Any politician that favors a womens right to choose has no chance of support from a substantial % of the electorate.

    FORTY YEARS these two divisive hot potato button pushing debates have polarized the country. … The Divided States of America.

    Forty years these issues have been manipulated, groomed, propagandized, and put on steroids, by differing political ideologues to divide and conquer.
    The ideologues have done well (for themselves). They have done damage to our Democratic Republic. …. We will destroy our government in order to save it.

    The Oligarchy loves a divided electorate. Look, Look!! over there SQUIRREL SQUIRREL ! .The Oligarchs creates the Ruses that distract and Confuses the Rubes. The Oligarchs fiddle and dance, and take money from our pants.

  84. “The Oligarchy loves a divided electorate. Look, Look!! over there SQUIRREL SQUIRREL ! .The Oligarchs creates the Ruses that distract and Confuses the Rubes. The Oligarchs fiddle and dance, and take money from our pants.”


    Bob Dylan sung it so well so many years ago:

  85. david blue fish, I first voted for McGovern, also. I think you can add gay marriage, immigration, voting rights and gun control to the list that divides the country. Christian fundamentalism plays a huge role.

  86. Infowars is a lot more than a conservative news site. It is a neo-confederate conspiracy theorist movement that spouts white supremacy and recently made George Zimmerman their hero for standing his ground and killing Trayvon Martin.

  87. I’m not really sure why it is important whether Carter said this or not. Those with eyes, ears and a functioning brain know we have no functioning democracy, just look at congress.

    Wall Street, multinational corporations, banks, Big Pharma, Big Aggie, the oil and energy industry and the weapons industry all own our government and country along with the 1%,

    We were told that the Patriot Acts, NDAA, etc, etc, are for our security. In reality these laws were put in place to one day be used against us as our country and society continue a downward spiral into the abyss.

  88. Mike s.,
    Great old Dylan song. I have not heard that one in years. It is a masterpiece of social commentary.

  89. LK,

    “We should look upon it as an evolved, macro-based form of literary appreciation.”

    I laughed out loud, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t like it. :D

  90. rafflaw,

    re: Iran N Korea, USA

    Iraq,US troops= depleted uranium poisoning, monsanto, Native Americans still being killed/injured.

    I don’t have time now to lay out the case yet a case can be made.

  91. ** Swarthmore mom 1, July 19, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Infowars is a lot more than a conservative news site. It is a neo-confederate conspiracy theorist movement that spouts white supremacy and recently made George Zimmerman their hero for standing his ground and killing Trayvon Martin.


    I made an honest mistake yesterday when I wrote J Turley’s blog had 17 million viewers. I think the story put up was this site has had 17 mil views.

    That was a simple mistake anyone could make & I corrected it.

    I thought I’d suggest you take another look at your comments above & see if you wished to do the same by correcting the mistakes.

    Or if you’re taking those opinions, falsely wrote as fact, from another source please explain who’s spreading that type info.

  92. Oky1, The list is lengthy but a few of the top of my head…. Rachel Maddow, Crooks and Liars, the Los Angeles Times, Right Wing Watch and,SPLC Have to run. I have a lunch appointment so I don’t have time to cut and paste but you can do the research if you chose to or watch some of the Infowars videos on Youtube.

  93. My sadness at what is happening in this country has become profound,, I admit I was a fool and supported the democratic ticket both time, more wholeheartedly the first time than the second but I tried to keep on believing. I don’t comment on here much anymore because I don’t have the slightest idea how to fix things….As I look at it we have a republican party that is so filled with hate for any number of groups and a democratic party that is lead by a constitutional lawyer who’s main job seems to be tearing the constitution apart and a bunch of sissy dems that have no backbone whatsoever. It seems to me that disaster is looming somewhere ahead..

    Blouise, I’m always hanging around just more quietly nowadays…

  94. davidbluefish, I was wrong in my above posting about the CIA section chief, he and 23 associates were tried for kidnapping 1 person in Italy for rendition. My bad. In any event, he, Robert Lady, is on his way back to the US today.

    His defense at the time of the time: “Lady was quoted by Il Giornale newspaper in 2009 as saying: “I’m not guilty. I’m only responsible for carrying out orders that I received from my superiors.””

    Ex-CIA official detained in Panama heading back to U.S.

  95. Our Constitution says that the first job of the President is to uphold the integrity of the Constitution. Former President Carter did so much less than other presidents in this regard, who have done nothing and harmed our rights, in fact. There is no watchdog at the helm to see that our rights are upheld and no president has upheld even the basics of our democracy. Certainly not Jimmy Carter. He may have had ideas but he didn’t know his job.
    Also, Jimmy Carter was not part of the legal monopoly that runs our governments and therefore, was subject to high opposition. It was intended that he particularly fail.
    Article 1, section 8 says essentially that govermental institutions will be created to provide for the security of the people and also preserve and protect the tenets of our (individual) rights pursuant to our Constitution. We have Homeland Security, for what’s it’s worth, but only recently created and already critized for its laxness.
    Americans have no rights as our country has become a tryanny.
    As a Pro Se litigant in our court system, I have had my Constitutional right to trial, the right to be heard on my civil cases routinely denied and dismissed. This is a 7th Amendment right. Even though my pleadings met the criteria of a lawsuit under procedural law, my civil cases were denied and dismissed (yes, I have a background in legal training). Even when I proved my cases at the time I filed my lawsuits with the court, my civil cases were still denied and dismissed.
    Judges practice the absolute power to destroy our rights and this power goes unchecked by our governments.
    Why? Because this elected legal monopoly of congressmen and senators know that if not re-elected, they go back to private practice and will have their income shredded by judges who will know that they opposed their power. The colusion in the legal profession is more than widespread.
    Who gives up money and power? The less rights we have , the more money and power goes into the pocket of this legal monopoly, so to speak. And justice that must be bought is no justice at all.
    Any existance of absolute power, in a position lower than what can be given to the President of the United States is tyranny and no longer a democracy.
    The right to trial, the right to be heard is the hinge on which all our rights depend, so observed Thomas Jefferson and he is absolutely right.
    Rule of Law does not exist where the law is not neutral and impartial. The destruction of law signals the presence of arbitrary rule and a condition of freedom demands that citizens must have a public sphere in which they are honored.
    This practice of absolute power by the courts, encourages the psychological and opportunistic financial abuse of our society and the workplace – a strategy to stamp out human nature and foster maliciousness in this society. This is a “soft” suppressive technique used by a functional tyranny.
    Indeed, our society now resembles a tyranny – the concentration of money and power in the hands of only 15% of the population, a minescule middle class which was “dangerously shrinking” even during the Bush administration, and how a multi-tiered lower class – many whose fortunes had slid during these recessions and poor economy. Approximately 1/5 of all Americans are on food stamps.
    These legal monopoly is always there to be elected and re-elected. The medial had brainwashed the citizenry into believing that alternative political parties are kooks and the cost of running a president campaign is beyond the grasp of decent candidates.
    So what to do? I would welcome answers to my question.

Comments are closed.