“We have ways of making you talk…..” Confessions and false confessions.

Submitted by Charlton Stanley (aka Otteray Scribe), Guest Blogger

“It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”
– Sir William Blackstone KC SL, Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765)

Sir William Blackstone
Sir William Blackstone

One of the oldest cliché movie scenes of the past half century is the Gestapo agent, wearing a monocle, slapping a riding crop against his gloved hand, saying with a leer, “Ve haf vays of making you talk…..” Unfortunately, that caricature figure has come to life in in recent years, taking the form of rogue psychologists, unscrupulous investigators, and even the Vice President of the United States.

My motivation to write this is because of a phone call a few weeks ago. An old case I worked on back in the 1980s resurfaced with that phone call out of the blue. Of all the cases I ever worked on, the one I got the call about has been the most bothersome. It involved a murder, a coerced confession, a judge with a troubled psychological burden of his own, and a jury that would not believe confessions could be coerced. Plus, a district attorney with a reputation of wanting to win at any cost. Since this case has resurfaced and the new investigation is still under way, I can’t say too much about it now. As details become public, I will be writing more.

Let me start off by saying that most confessions may be legitimate, but since we have no way of knowing how many are false, no solid statistics are possible. The simple fact that so far, over three hundred people have been released from prison due to wrongful convictions is enough to give one pause. It is reasonable, based on the number exonerated so far, to assume there are a lot of them. We just don’t know which ones. Not all those overturned convictions were due to false confessions, but about a fourth of them were. If a defendant does make a false confession, and there is solid DNA evidence showing the defendant to be innocent, juries convict over 80% of the time, despite the physical evidence. One thing I find curious is the fact some prosecutors continue to prosecute cases even after the physical evidence proves they have the wrong person.

When I was a kid, my paternal grandfather and I were very close. I was named after him. He was one of the smartest men I have ever known. His father had been a judge, but my granddad decided to become a salesman instead of going into the practice of law. He was good at sales. His brother, my Uncle Ed, was another man who could sell anything, and ended up with his own insurance agency.

Granddad would tell  stories, and could keep a kid spellbound. He also knew some magic tricks, including some that involved hypnosis. It was part of his ability to sell almost anything to anyone. I am not sure if I picked up those skills because of the early start, or because I have a talent. At any rate, I learned them. Two of the most important things I learned were the power of repetition, and the power of indirect suggestion.

Along the way, I seem to have acquired at least part of his skill at storytelling. My dad was good at it too. As I grew up and became a teenager, I experimented with influencing people to do things unwittingly, but never made a systematic or organized effort to develop those skills. What I did was haphazard, since my interests were in other directions than either psychology or sales. I am embarrassed to tell the story, but in high school I worked as a bagger at a supermarket, along with several other high school buddies. One afternoon, I bet them I could get the janitor to go home early. They jeered at me, telling me I couldn’t. So for the next couple of hours, every time I walked past the guy, I simply asked if he was OK, because he looked like he didn’t feel well. By that time, he asked the manager if he could go home, because he felt ill. Looking back, I am horrified at what I did in my teenage cluelessness regarding the ethics of that situation. The reason I share that story now is twofold. First, it is an illustration of one of the many ways indirect suggestion works. Second, and this is where ethics comes in, just because you know how to do something doesn’t mean you should do it.

It was not until my senior year of college that I realized I probably should have majored in psychology instead of education. Fortunately, there was enough psychology in my education courses to satisfy most of the prerequisites for getting into graduate school in psychology. After starting to graduate school, I discovered the work of Dr. Milton Erickson. Strangely, the university library saw fit to keep all the books and journals about hypnosis in the locked room where rare books were kept, and even graduate students could not go in there without a library employee hovering the whole time. That is not conducive to being able to browse the stacks or sit and read at leisure. The study of hypnosis was definitely not part of the curriculum in the 1950s and 1960s.

Freud had tried to do hypnosis, but from everything I read, was horribly bad at it. Freud pronounced hypnosis of no value, and certainly of no use to psychotherapy. In those days, if Freud said it, it must be so, and thus hypnosis was left to the sole purview of the stage hypnotist and magician.

Since it wasn’t being taught, and not easy to get into that locked area of the university library, I bought my own books on hypnosis. The work of psychiatrist and self-taught hypnotist named Milton Hyland Erickson was just coming into prominence. Erickson’s genius was to reintroduce hypnosis and hypnotherapy back into psychiatric and psychological clinical practice. It was through his efforts that hypnosis overcame Freud’s stigma and once again was respectable in clinical practice.

Milton Erickson, MD Old Dominion University
Milton Erickson, MD
Old Dominion University

Dr. Milton H. Erickson was a polio survivor. When he was so sick as a child, he taught himself hypnotic techniques to help manage his pain and near death experience. I was fascinated by Erickson’s work, could relate to him and his life experiences. I read everything I could get my hands on about him. Eventually, I managed to acquire the complete works of Milton H. Erickson, MD, including a number of audiotapes. He was a master of indirect suggestion. One of his techniques involved storytelling. Tell the subject some fascinating story, but connect it to their own inner experience, and pretty soon, being entranced becomes a trance. Other techniques involved confusion, saying or doing something that sounded or felt right, but was off by just a little bit. He was so good, that some of his colleagues would not shake hands with him, because he was famous for being able to induce catalepsy (a form of paralysis) in the process of shaking hands. In his later years, Erickson developed post-polio syndrome and was confined to a wheelchair. He died in 1980.

During the 1970s two men, John Grinder and Richard Bandler, collaborated on developing something they called Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). It was touted to be a combination of communicating, psychotherapy and personal development. Their theory was that interconnections between neurological processes (neuro), language (linguistic) and behavioral patterns learned through experience (programming) could be used to shape people into achieving specific goals. Their pseudoscientific jargon fit right in with the new age thinking of the time. Erickson was angry with them for hijacking many of his techniques of hypnosis and indirect suggestion, using them in ways he considered unethical and inappropriate. Research has shown the theoretical basis of NLP to be unsupported by science. Nonetheless, the essence of using the power of suggestion remains, even if their explanation of how NLP is supposed to work is pseudoscience. In other words, if you forget the mumbo-jumbo new age jargon, hypnosis can be used for programming someone to do or say something they might not otherwise do or say. One might say that Bandler and Grinder got the programming part right.

This discussion is not really so much about hypnosis, NLP, or other techniques as it is about how people can be induced to confess to crimes they did not commit. About the same time that Erickson began to make a name for himself as a skilled practitioner of indirect suggestion, a man named John E. Reid began developing a technique for interrogating suspects that bears at least a superficial resemblance to the suggestion techniques of Erickson, but is much more aggressive than Erickson would ever dream of. Reid trademarked his “Reid Technique” and began conducting classes for investigators. At the time of this writing, it is used by many law enforcement agencies in the US, including some Federal agencies. Other “interrogation” training instructors claim they either use NLP or some derivation of it. There is a curious connection between these techniques and confessions.

The Reid organization defends their methods, but Provincial Court Judge Mike Dinkel of Alberta, Canada slammed the Reid method of interrogation. In a scathing written opinion dismissing the charges against defendant Christa Lynn Chapple, Judge Dinkel ruled,

“Although there is no law prohibiting the use of the Reid Technique, I find that it has the ability to extinguish the individual’s sacred legal rights to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and to remain silent in the face of police questioning.

“I denounce the use of this technique in the strongest terms possible and find that its use can lead to overwhelmingly oppressive situations that can render false confessions and cause innocent people to be wrongfully imprisoned.”

The Calgary Herald reported the story.

The Innocence Project reports 311 exonerations to date, with the help of incontrovertible DNA evidence. According to the Innocence Project, approximately 25%, of those who were convicted and later exonerated had confessed to the crime they did not commit. Crimes that DNA proved beyond any doubt they did not commit. Eighteen of those innocent people had been sentenced to death. The average time served was 13.6 years. Seven out of every ten were people of color. Ground zero for false confessions seems to be Chicago and Cook County, Illinois, although there have been exonerations in 35 states and the District of Columbia so far.

Dr. Saul Kassin, Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, has been researching false confessions for years. Dr. Kassin finds there are three kinds of false confessions:

  1.  Voluntary — The person confesses to a crime they did not commit without prompting from the police. These are often attention seekers, who want to be associated with an infamous crime.
  2. Compliant — The person confesses to a crime through inducement or the process of the police interrogation.
  3. Internalized — The person confesses to a crime because they are highly vulnerable to suggestion and are exposed to suggestive interrogation tactics where they come to believe they actually committed the crime.

Research using hypnotic suggestibility scales shows that about one out of five people fall into the category of being highly suggestible. Another 20% are highly resistant to suggestion. The other three-fifths of the population fall on a continuum somewhere in between. It is safe to say that about 20-25% of the general population will fall into Kassin’s third group of being easily influenced and suggestible. What’s more, the younger the subject, the more vulnerable they are. There is a reason for child protection laws, which apparently protect them from everyone but law enforcement interrogators.

David Drumm (Nal) wrote an excellent guest blog last May about the FBI not recording interviews, entitled Why The FBI Doesn’t Record Interrogations.

If an interview is not recorded, then it cannot be analyzed by experts on coerced confessions, or cross examined on the witness stand. Some jurisdictions are now requiring all interrogations to be recorded. The Innocence Project says that recorded interrogations reduce the number of false confessions. They point to these examples:

  • The Supreme Courts of Alaska and Minnesota have declared that, under their state constitutions, defendants are entitled as a matter of due process to have their custodial interrogations recorded.
  • In 2003, Illinois became the first state to require by law that all police interrogations of suspects in homicide cases must be recorded.
  • Police departments in Broward County (Florida) and Santa Clara County (California), among others, have begun to record interrogations without a law requiring them. Proactive policies like these have been adopted because the practice benefits police and prosecutors as well as innocent suspects.

I have been doing what I do for four decades now, going into my fifth. I have no idea how many defendants I have interviewed, but they run into the thousands. Someone once told me I could get more information out of somebody in six minutes than they could in six hours. After a while one develops a style that works. During that time, I have never coerced anyone, threatened anyone, or browbeat them. I want information and accurate intelligence, not a regurgitation of some preconceived theory, whether my own or somebody else’s. In my opinion, that is the way it should be.

Hans Scharff

I had heard of this interrogator early in my career as a forensic psychologist, and consciously or unconsciously, modeled my style after several of his techniques. Hanns-Joachim Gottlob Scharff, who held the Luftwaffe rank of Obergefreiter (Senior Lance Corporal) was arguably the best interrogator of WW2. In fact, after the war he was given immigration status to the US where he lectured Air Force intelligence agents on his methods. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, those lessons were forgotten. It was incumbent on Scharff to get solid accurate information. If prisoners just told him what they thought he wanted to hear, it was not actionable intelligence, but misinformation.

In future installments, we will discuss specific interrogation styles, and why they are effective in eliciting false confessions. In the meantime, here is Dr. Kassin explaining some of what his research has uncovered.

40 thoughts on ““We have ways of making you talk…..” Confessions and false confessions.

  1. Great stuff OS! Some of those overturned confessions in Chicago were related to police torture. A grade school classmate was the reporter that broke that story.

  2. great post …….

    first let me ask you this :

    Generally speaking – is there any duty on a prosecutor , from his own initiative , to prove in a criminal court , that the confession given , was out of free will and honest ?? Because in other judicial systems in the common law , it is a common practice or doctrine in fact !!

    Second : one should remember – physical and forensic evidences , connect the suspect to the crime scene , not necessarily to the crime itself , I mean – both edges , sometimes for the good ( innocence ) sometimes for the bad ( guilt ) .

    Third : that apparent hypnosis at that super market you made upon that poor janitor or what ever , actually made my day !! I saw the light , the everlasting Enlightenment ……….

    Thanks …..

  3. ***One thing I find curious is the fact some prosecutors continue to prosecute cases even after the physical evidence proves they have the wrong person.***

    “Curious” is putting it mildly. I don’t understand the logic (or ethics) of getting the conviction vs. finding the person who is actually guilty of the crime.

  4. OS I heard that Scharff had a room with microphones all around, and then let all the POWs he was interrogating have all the beer they could drink. I wonder if that is against the laws of war to throw a beer bash for a bunch of enemy pilots who will undoubtedly get drunk and spill everything they know. If it is true, I have to take my hat off to a brilliant guy who knows his targets well.

  5. Randy,
    I have read that after the war he remained friends with some of the allied airmen he worked with. That really doesn’t surprise me. I don’t know if the beer bash story is true or not, but that would not surprise me either.

    I don’t think there is anything in the Geneva Conventions that mentions beer.

  6. Randy,
    One of the unusual things Scharff did, was take some of the allied POWs up for joyrides in German warplanes. Of course, I would never do anything like that…..

  7. Very good topic, with several aspects. Regarding DNA. From my perspective it helps to acquit some innocent folks and wrongly convicts others. A jury is quick to jump on a DNA identification and then pin the perp to the crime scene. But the alleged perp, the defendant, may not have been at the crime scene itself or might have touched the victim prior to the crime having occurred. DNA can be transferred. A detective who is handling items can transfer the DNA of the defendant to an item found at a crime scene or to for example, a fingernail clipped from a dead victim. Then the prosecutor argues that the defendant was scratched by the victim at the time of the assault. Juries love to jump on the DNA bandwagon.

    So, folks be careful with any infatuation with the advent of the DNA technology. Innocent men get convicted when it is wrongly attributed to being at the crime scene or touching the dead guy at the time of the crime. Be careful out there.

  8. Very interesting article. The December 9, 2013 issue of The New Yorker magazine has what should be considered a must read article on the subject of police interrogations. A fascinating review of the Reid system written by Douglass Starr. I recommend it.

  9. An all too common tactic is when LEO lies to someone they’ve arrested. usually telling the person that they don’t really want him/her, but rather someone else and if they will implicate that person, then the person they
    arrested will be free to go home.. And of course, they don’t allow any such thing. Thus LEO chalks up another “success”.

  10. The terribly misleading forced drift that’s used by police and military (if psychological pressure is getting results the interrogators wanted , then they should increase the psychological pressure ) ought to be used less radically,
    .Forced drift makes it difficult to glean a truer narrative , even and especially in an clinical experiment. A geometric progression of despair causes a prisoner in jail to be a captive audience to dishonest witnesses and practices.. The prisoner become passive , unable to defend himself or herself from the simplest Kafkaesque accusations.
    Can’t the judicial system make decent laws and ways to prevent emotionally damaging and unnecesssary fixed preemptive states that forced odd compromises and false confessions bring to innocent people’s lives?

  11. Part of the trouble is that prosecuters are more interested in winning in America than getting to the truth. This means that evil is rewarded in their case. We need to change the system somewhat so that the truth is paramount & this kind of clouding the truth to win is hugely penalized, more so especially for a prosecuter who should be suspended for six months on a first offence & barred from that office forever if it happens twice.

  12. I once proved to the judge in Winnemucca, Nv that the police were negligent on Highway I-80 in that area by not posting Winter Conditions signs at a point where the highway was suddenly covered in black ice after about 180 miles of dry, good road. I was fighting a speeding ticket for spinning out & totaling my Jeep Cherokee after a multiple roll, with nobody else involved. I was clocked at less than the speed limit. The prosecutor fought tooth & nail for half an hour. Fortunately my judge this time was not a dummy or a yes man, but I would have preferred it if he had also had the guts to instruct the cops & prosecution to do something about their stretch of highway, other than prosecuting victims of black ice they already knew about but refused to warn motorists as they do in Wyoming & other parts of the I-80. My truck driver friend informed me later that this stretch of highway is notorious for failure to post or warn. It may be just as bad today; I have not been there recently. Anyway, the point is that the prosecutor only wanted to WIN! To heck with the truth that the cops were doing a bad job!

  13. Fascinating Chuck. Beautifully written and laid out. For a blog such as this and for someone like JT, this hits at the essence of the service he provides to society. The psychological coercion used by LEO’s to achieve confessions is brutal and often may not render the truth and thus miscarry justice.

  14. A Law Enforcement Offender. Good name. When someone brags about being a LEO, set em straight. Thank em for their service. Certain writers and folks in the police business like to invoke the LEO word. They don’t like the word cop. A coerced confession is a crime against humanity. If a cop lies about what a dog told him then it is a sacrilegious offense. Like when the cop says that Fido “alerted” him that there was pot in the trunk of the car. Big lie.

  15. This is a big problem in many areas of the country. There was a time when it was almost routine to beat a confession out of the suspect. In large part this has changed for the better over time but it hasn’t been eradicated.

    With regard to interrogations (or more politely interviews) slapping a defendant around is assault in every criminal sense as might be the case for which the suspect was brought in. It might make for entertaining movies and tv for some but not in a professional.

    Also I would agree with most people being up front is often useful, though at times this can be non-productive. Sometimes it is the case where the interviewer uses emotion evoking questioning to evoke the truth. I recognize this sounds harsh but it can take the form of guilt-tripping, appealing to their religion, appealing to their sense of lying is wrong, or their unease of their sexual guilt in child rape cases. This is not to say verbal abuse, but many interviews cannot be done without them often times and great care must be exercised to not finger an innocent person as Chuck described in this article.

    I don’t agree with relying on confession as the primary evidence to arrest. In my opinion it must be corroborated with good physical evidence or at least corroboration from 3rd party witnesses. I have personally delt with individuals who would confess to anything, and those who become so scared in dealing with police they can’t think enough to defend their actions.

    Furthermore I don’t believe an interrogation should last more than 45 minutes to an hour total if the suspect does not admit to the crime. It is time then to hang it up and try another source of evidence. Otherwise the interview starts to hark of coercion or duress. Sometimes though when a suspect legitimately confesses but the details of the crimes are so great it is not possible to dictate it in less than an hour. In this case the interrogation should be broken into 45 minute blocks with a 15 minute or so break between.

    Chuck also brings up the FBI not recording interviews. This is true and I have seen it myself. Unethical practice aside from a strictly workflow point of view it is much harder to deal with. When the interview is short, an officer can simply play back the interview and type out in his or her report much easier. If it is longer the recording can be handed off to a transcriptionist for inclusion into the case file. Sometimes this is not possible in the field but I would rather have this over trying to remember every word said anytime.

    There is no excuse for an agency as large as the FBI to not have the facility to record interviews, especially when a podunk two officer agency in a rural area can.

  16. Darren,
    I have several large boxes of casette tapes. Some interviews took more than one tape. Others did not even use one side of one tape. I really ought to make an archive of those by digitizing them if they have not deteriorated too badly.

    Now I have a Sony digital recorder capable of at least 33 hours of high quality non-stop audio, and it’s five years old. The latest model of that same Sony voice recorder can record 2,087 hours.

    There is no excuse not to record.

  17. **Otteray Scribe 1, December 16, 2013 at 1:37 am **

    OS, don’t be my WW2 uncle and drop the ball!

    Get you some damned High School or College student to transcribe the info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yes, it’s that Ph’in Cheap!

    Do it Damn it!

  18. It’s sad to me enemies make war upon the people.

    I’ll pay my respects to each & every one of them as they fall beneath my infantry of good karma!

    My recommendations, take you profits now & leave before we get already to You!


    (AP:CONCORD, N.H.) CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — A former Fortune 500 executive told police he was depressed and aiming to kill himself when he drove his full-size pick-up truck across a grassy highway median, went airborne and crushed to death a young Vermont couple expecting their first child in January.

    Robert Dellinger, 53, survived the suicide attempt with cuts on his head and face. He was charged with reckless manslaughter, a crime that carries 15-30 years in prison if convicted.

    But what was going through Dellinger’s mind and whether he showed “extreme indifference” to human life could get him a more serious charge of second-degree murder that carries up to life in prison.

    Jason Timmons, 29, and Amanda Murphy, 24, suffered injuries a medical examiner said were consistent with a plane crash. The unborn child did not survive.

    Veteran defense attorney and University of New Hampshire law school professor Albert “Buzz” Scherr said he has no doubt prosecutors are considering elevating the charges to murder, but hastened to add there’s little precedent for a case like Dellinger’s.

    “It’s such strange and outrageous behavior,” Scherr said. “There’s a vacuum in terms of the details of what was in his mind.

    “If he’s focused on committing suicide, is he thinking about other people’s lives? Or does it fall closer to driving really fast and hoping you go so fast you go off the road and kill yourself and you’re not thinking about anyone else?”

    Senior Assistant Attorney General Susan Morrell said last week they are considering additional charges against Dellinger, who left as a senior vice president and chief financial officer of PPG Industries in 2011 because of health issues. He had also worked for Sprint, Delphi and General Electric.

    Asked why Dellinger wasn’t charged with second-degree murder at the outset, Morrell said, “We’re still collecting evidence. We examine the evidence and pursue the appropriate charges.”

    Dellinger has not been charged in connection with the loss of the fetus. Former Gov. John Lynch in 2012 vetoed legislation that would have expanded the state’s homicide laws to include the death of a fetus eight weeks or older.

    Dellinger’s lawyer, Peter DeCato, did not return calls seeking comment. Dellinger, who lives in Sunapee but maintains a home in Kansas, is free on $250,000 cash bond and must wear an electronic monitoring device and undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

    Prosecutors said in court Wednesday that Dellinger’s truck crossed the median on Interstate 89 early afternoon on Dec. 7, became airborne and sheared off the top of the couple’s car, killing them instantly.

    According to prosecutors, Dellinger told troopers after the crash that he had argued with his wife over medication he was taking for depression and was driving around when he decided to commit suicide.

    “He told us that Saturday in the hospital that he intended to cross that median at a high rate of speed,” Morrell said.

    Attorney Jonathan Cohen, who is not involved in Dellinger’s case, said it’s not a stretch to think prosecutors may seek to increase the charges once all the evidence is in.

    “I think a prosecutor could make the argument to a jury that intentionally driving your car across the median of a roadway manifests an extreme indifference to human life,” Cohen said.

  19. Oops typo:

    It’s sad to me enemies make war upon the people.
    I’ll pay my respects to each & every one of them as they fall beneath my infantry of good karma!
    My recommendations, take you profits now & leave before we get around to You!
    (AP:CONCORD, N.H.) CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — A former Fortune 500 executive told police he was depressed and aiming to kill himself when he drove his full-size pick-up truck across a grassy highway median, went airborne and crushed to death a young Vermont couple expecting their first child in January.
    Robert Dellinger, 53, survived the su

    Ya, He just went into my Dead Bankers File!

    Ya he’s not dead, but he’s Done! LOL Ph’er

    Run you Aholes We’re Coming For You! LOL! Coward Sheeets the lot!

  20. OS,

    In case you’re wondering, I’m fine & I pray you & your family are too.

    My friend & adviser, Scots/Jew, the most totally relaxed person I’ve ever known…

    …as he destroys enemies with good karma.. lol

    This war seems almost over.

    It feels close, well see.


  21. I have been binge-watching all of the Brit TV series Midsomer Murders (on Netflix) and every episode ends with a confession skilfully extracted by DCI Tom Barnaby who might be using Scharff methods. His DS assistants weigh in with the “lying about evidence” routine with “good” effect.

  22. As much as ppl bark at some – the disdainful “CT”; I bark back “coincidence theorists”. There is nothing more conspiratorial than those who claim to be doing a scientific approach with a bias toward a certain goal that funnels all efforts to get there

    In diametric form to science.

    Damn verbal, repetitive, reinforcing B.S.;
    and veiled agendas – via suggestions.

  23. There’s a disconnect and a wierd adolescent wish fulfilment in some of the thoughtless posts here. If you want to think like a honest peace loving diplomat, learn how people talk in Scotland or Ireland. A horrible mangling of the Scots English and Irish-English dialects make these “debates “difficult to take seriously.
    I know you can’t peer into any of your neighbors ‘ screens , so I can only assume you’re trying to break him or her psychologically by exaggerating what you think you know. Why would anyone think this is funny ?

  24. And the state of Michigan as well as others suppress this ideal…. And we have some real innocent folks in prison…. We have to have the convictions….

  25. Yes, wiselyskeptical, so true. So many commenters & bloggers here have a ‘thinkinsidemyboxorgetoutforgood’ attitude. The subject is often Freedom & Tolerance, like this blog is supposed to be. Funny, huh?

  26. OS, very revealing and well expressed.

    Somewhat off-topic. Two months ago I had surgery. In the prep room the nurse asked me a question, I responded with, “well I’ll be knocked out so I guess it doesn’t matter”. She said “no you won’t be” !!!!! then she talked about twilight. This is way above my paygrade.
    I have had several (or more) very humbling moments in my life. This is one of them. My thoughts are that I was a babbling “fish”, most likely the most unguarded I have ever been. In the hands of competent and ethical Doctors I am willing to accept this condition. Just as you described ethical hypnotists.
    I have read some of the techniques used by our CIA at Guantanimo, I wonder if there were and are, Doctors employed by us, US, that use this “twilight” to interrogate prisoners. What a pandoras box this may be.
    Surgery itself is very humbling, I hoped to wake up, and I did. It is not often that I place my life totally in the hands of another. I had never before considered placing my mind totally in the hands of another.
    Perhaps this twilight is privileged information, I don’t have a clue, but I never heard of it before. Would you, if ethical, share some of your knowledge, or perhaps post a link, (twilight for dummies :o)

    Also if this is as powerful as my laymans, mind ghosts make it, I have deep concerns of those that may use it without ethics. Thank you.

  27. If I had any young children I would “Flee” the USA at this time. It’s the young kids at the greatest risk at this time in history.

    Yes, I’m a 100% serious.

    Some may have a secondary choice of raising their kids using homeschooling. If one can do it I think it helpful.

    I have no doubt about attempted Govt Brainwashing as OS is speaking of above.

    Young people are likely the most vulnerable.


  28. Oky1, at one time I would have dismissed what you’ve said as “over the top” or something like that. That’s no longer the case: your concerns are not unreasonable and the proposed Ohio legislation you have cited is only one of many anecdotes I have heard that support your point of view. Here in Michigan, there is a school superintendent named David Sipka who caused a stir not too long ago by stating his opinion that brain chip implants will be part of the future of “education.” So, Oky1, you are NOT “over the top.” It’s the politicians and the so-called “professionals” who have more than a few screws loose.

  29. RW Nye,

    I really wish & may write Alex Jones/Infowars & request they put together either an outline or a flow chart of “Publicly Known” govt programs & “Laws” , (illegal of course), for brainwashing, propaganda, govt paid trolls, medical experiments on citizens, military, prisoners, etc…

    So regardless if it’s infowars or any number of groups like a river that info is beginning to flow out like a flood.

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