Not Just for Profit: Apple CEO Suggests That Climate Change Deniers Should Take Their Money Out of Apple Stock

apple-logoSubmitted by Elaine Magliaro, Weekend Contributor

The National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR), a “self-described” conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C., happens to be a shareholder in Apple. NCPPR has not been happy with Apple’s environmental initiatives. According to Chris Taylor (Mashable), Apple has made great improvements “in its use of renewable energy” since Tim Cook took over as CEO. Taylor said, “More than three-quarters of the company’s facilities worldwide, including all of its data centers and its Cupertino HQ, now run on solar, wind, geothermal or hydro power, up from about a quarter under Jobs.” Just last year, Cook hired former EPA head Lisa Jackson “to lead the company’s sustainability efforts.”

In a written statement prior to Apple’s recent annual shareholder meeting, NCPPR’s general counsel Justin Danhof said, “We object to increased government control over company products and operations, and likewise mandatory environmental standards. This is something [Apple] should be actively fighting, not preparing surrender.” According to Fortune, NCPPR “was pushing a shareholder proposal that would have required Apple to disclose the costs of its sustainability programs and to be more transparent about its participation in ‘certain trade associations and business organizations promoting the amorphous concept of environmental sustainability’…” Bryan Chaffin (The Mac Observer) said that the NCPPR proposal was “rooted in the premise that humanity plays no role in climate change.” He also noted that there was language in the proposal that “advanced the idea that profits should be the only thing corporations consider.” During the shareholder meeting, NCPPR urged Apple CEO Tim Cook and the board “to pledge that Apple wouldn’t pursue any more environmental initiatives that didn’t improve its bottom line.”

According to Chris Taylor, Cook’s response to NCPPR was “blistering.” Bryan Chaffin said it was the only time he could recall that Cook appeared angry. Chaffin said Cook “categorically rejected the worldview behind the NCPPR’s advocacy.” The Apple CEO insisted that the company’s environmental efforts make “economic sense.” He added that Apple does “a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive.” Cook said that there were many things the company does “because they are right and just, and that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues.” Cook said that when the company works on “making devices accessible by the blind,” he doesn’t “consider the bloody ROI.”

Cook continued, “We want to leave the world better than we found it.” But Cook didn’t stop there. He suggested that anyone who had a problem with what the company was doing should sell their shares in Apple. “Get out of the stock,” he said.

Evidently, NCPPR was not too pleased with Cook’s response to its objections, advice, and shareholder proposal. Following the meeting, the think tank released a statement saying, “After today’s meeting, investors can be certain that Apple is wasting untold amounts of shareholder money to combat so-called climate change. The only remaining question is: how much?”

Good question. How much should companies/corporations invest in looking for ways to combat climate change?

And imagine this: The CEO of a big company who is concerned not only about the “bottom line”—but who also cares about doing things that are “right” and “just and that will leave the world a better place. If only his condition was infectious.

NOTE: NCPPR’s proposal was rejected by Apple’s shareholders. It received just 2.95 percent of the vote.

~ Submitted by Elaine Magliaro

The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.

SOURCES

Apple CEO: Climate Change Deniers Should Take Their Money Out Of Apple Stock (ThinkProgress)

 Tim Cook to Climate Change Deniers: Get Out of Apple Stock (Mashable)

Apple’s Tim Cook picks a fight with climate change deniers: Tells shareholders who oppose Apple’s sustainability efforts to “get out of the stock.” (Fortune)

Right Wing Think Tank Wants Apple to Disclose Sustainability Costs (The Mac Observer)

Tim Cook Soundly Rejects Politics of the NCPPR, Suggests Group Sell Apple’s Stock (The Mac Observer)

106 thoughts on “Not Just for Profit: Apple CEO Suggests That Climate Change Deniers Should Take Their Money Out of Apple Stock

  1. A great read. I’m a big Apple fan, and consider myself to be somewhat undecided on global warming (since I’m not scientist, I have a hard time wrapping myself around all of the data), but I do believe that our climate is constantly changing. Having said that, Apple is not an unprofitable company, and as a former member of the GOP (now an Independent), I applaud Apple, and Tim Cook. I see no harm, and great potential upside to what he, and Apple, are doing. Leadership often times means taking the tough road, not the easy one.

  2. “He added that Apple does “a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive.” Cook said that there were many things the company does “because they are right and just, and that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues.””

    Cook must be short on Apple, I would sell too if I owned any. At least Cook is right about selling Apple stock.

  3. Bron,

    Apple TV becomes most profitable ‘hobby’ ever as sales top $1 bn
    By Malarie Gokey
    Tech Times | March 1
    http://www.techtimes.com/articles/3904/20140301/apple-tv-becomes-most-profitable-hobby-ever-as-sales-top-1-bn.htm

    Excerpt:
    Apple TV isn’t even a TV and it still made more than $1 billion in sales for the company in 2013. According to estimates, Apple sold 10 million Apple TVs at $99 each to reach that staggering number. As a result, Apple TV is now the company’s fastest-growing category.

    Naturally, Tim Cook was pretty pleased when he announced these impressive sales figures at the annual shareholder meeting on Friday. Apple’s TV business was long-regarded as something of a “hobby” for the tech giant, but now that it is so successful, that could very well change.

    “That hobby was over a billion dollars of revenue last year,” Cook said. “It’s a little hard to call it a hobby anymore.”

    According to analyst Horace Dediu of Asymco, Apple would have had to have sold 10 million Apple TVs in 2013 to reach that total sales figure of $1 billion, since each media-streaming box costs $99. He also figured out that Apple has sold 28 million units since 2007, amounting to as much as $3.5 billion in sales.

    Additionally, due to the fact that Apple only sold 5 million units in 2012, the Apple TV business increased sales by 80 percent year over year. Consequently, Apple TV is now the company’s fastest-growing business.

  4. It is one thing to benefit the blind by making products easy to use, that has universal application, it is quite another to make long term business decisions based on climate change. Especially when we are sitting on huge deposits of coal, oil and natural gas.

  5. Elaine:

    I hope they stay profitable. I wish I would have bought them at 65/share. Never listen to a stock broker even if you know him well.

    Now he might be playing with the EPA and the Feds to keep them off his back or for tax reasons, I dont know. I would probably do the same. Or maybe a market survey showed Apple most people who buy are climate warmists.

    In any event, he is doing it for his bottom line and if he isnt, well, I would sell.

  6. Good for Tim Cook! I hope the representative from NCPPR left the stockholders’ meeting with his (hers/ their) tail between their collective legs.
    Rafflaw, from what I’ve read, Apple is bringing a lot of jobs back to the U.S. What the percentage is, I’m not certain, but they have been stung by the Foxcomm stories and did pay atttention.

  7. chestercat1:

    not exactly, China has rising manufacturing costs which are reaching parity with those here.

    They dont care about the people who work at Foxcomm, if they can get an I-phone built for less than it costs here, they will stay with Foxcomm.

  8. Ha! Not even 3% of the vote. Yes, imagine that, a big powerful corporation with a conscience. Almost unheard of and refreshing. Maybe they will start a trend, but I kind of doubt it.

  9. If Apple did bring back it’s manufacturing to the US, they’d be on the road to putting that shameful Foxconn episode behind them, because Americans sure wouldn’t tolerate Chinese style work conditions.

  10. Certainty is a word not found in the lexicon of the scientist. Of course, a court of law can always say it isn’t so for awhile

  11. It comes down to this: should ROI dictate business decisions or should business decisions result in ROI.
    Power to Apple if they can maintain the attitude that (short term) ROI is not the alter at which they worship.
    It is not amazing to me that the simple answer is the most popular.

  12. ” it is quite another to make long term business decisions based on climate change. Especially when we are sitting on huge deposits of coal, oil and natural gas.”

    Why would reasonable people let the nations reserves of coal, oil and natural gas influence their evaluation of the science of climate change.

    And if there is reasonable belief in human influence on climate change why would a reasonable person let reserves of coal, oil and natural gas affect energy policy.

    Finally, if their is reasonable belief in climate change then doesn’t it follow that climate-aware management is the best long term approach for the bottom line.

    Management text books are full of examples of short run policies that damage corporate viability.

  13. We had a presentation not long ago from a PhD meteorologist at the Oak Ridge National Laboratories about this. Inter alia, he explained that research of tree rings, ice, and soil columns indicates that climate has always been variable along a sine wave type pattern within a steady channel of measurement. Lately, we happen to be on the upwave. In time, it will roll over to a down wave.

    It was recommended that irrigation and cultivation of large desert areas would benefit the climate more than anything else that has been suggested. And this plan would be less expensive as well. It would remove politics and grandstanding from the debate once and for all.

  14. I haven’t driven in over ten years… Er, owned a car, that is.
    I’m a strong believer that one does not prosper and future generations suffer when we continue to urinate and crap pollution into the very ecosystem we rely upon for our very survival. Aka common sense.

    My motto: I have yet to see a wind farm, a solar array or geothermal plant poison the land sea or air like we witness, and many deny, from coal, oil/gas and nuclear every day.

  15. I sat and listened to a Native American elder and sacred Shaman through a two hour lecture a few years back during Occupy Seattle, discuss how modern man has lost touch with the future generations. She spoke how elder tribesmen, when considering social change, HOW that social change affects the next TEN GENERATIONS before settling on a final decision. If the outcome made sense for the immediate yet jeopardized any of the progeny of the next TEN GENERATIONS, then the deal would be over, so to speak.

    Today, our society is one where profits over people rules.

    Sad

  16. For the sake of balance…
    … Dinosaur farts on Noah’s Arch.

    Caused the great flood or not…
    … Debate.

    Like that?

  17. @annieofwi at 6:41. What are the Chinese style work conditions that Americans would not tolerate? Details, please. I worked in medium-industry and electronics factories in China from early 2004 through summer 2011. I have worked as a laborer in US factories and am able to compare my US experience with my China experience. The propensity for Chinese workers to routinely achieve 99% attendance rates amazed me. The much ballyhooed suicide rate at the Foxconn site was about a quarter of the China national suicide rate, and about half the US suicide rate.

  18. First off, I’m with Bron — Apple is dunderheaded, and depends entirely on a measure of well-meaning fools to keep it afloat. This was not true with Jobs around, because Jobs understood that, in order to be that way, you also had to produce the best damned stuff there was to get people to buy it.

    This is not going to happen — Apple is already dead in the water, it is making the exact same mistakes it made in the 1980s, after it ousted Jobs and stopped making things “insanely great”. It was already on its last legs in the late 1990s before Jobs came back and saved the company by producing the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad.

    The iPod market is no longer a major profit center. The iPhone market is now roughly 1/3rd of the market. And late last year Apple’s iPads became less than one half of the market. This is in a market where MARKET share is EVERYTHING.

    Wired Issue 5.11 | Nov 1997
    They Coulda Been A Contender
    Jim Carlton, on the full, inside story of Apple’s biggest, most strategic blunder.
    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.11/es_apple_pr.html

    At one point, Apple’s Macintosh was THE computer to buy and own. EVERYONE wanted one. But they ignored market share for the bottom line — company stock did well year after year — but they lost market share year after year … and eventually, profits started to fall, the true Death Knell came when the premiere product for the Macintosh, Adobe’s Photoshop, was released for Microsoft & IBM clones before it was released for the Mac, indicating that, even among the artistic types that were the Mac’s bread and butter, core loyalists, the IBM clones had taken over.

    And it’s going to go the same way again — Apple products now represent less than half the market, and Apple is doing nothing to stop that hemorrhaging of its market share — after all, the bottom line on the company is still ok, right?

    Yeah, “just like it was in 1990”.

    I have news for you — Apple is now a walking zombie, and anyone who has money in it should GTFO now. They might have another 3-8 years before the problems start to show — less if there is another downturn, more if there is not. I really give them 5 years before “smart” investors really twig to what is happening.

    The main difference between now and 1997? It’ll be pretty damned impressive if Jobs manages to come back and save the company THIS time.

  19. Approving Keystone XL will turn off young voters
    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-needs-anti-keystone-climate

    The conventional wisdom on the political impact of a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline is this: President Obama should approve the project to provide cover for oil industry-friendly, middle-of-the-road Democrats who are in tight races in 2014.

    Here’s the reality: a Keystone XL approval isn’t going to help these candidates any more than the administration’s past handouts to the fossil fuel industry. Big Oil and its allies are planning another round of major spending against Democrats this election cycle, and a thumbs up on Keystone wouldn’t slow them down a bit.

    […] In a recent poll, 70% of young voters said that support for action on climate change will affect who they vote for, and 73% said they’d vote against a politician who wasn’t addressing the problem.
    (continued)

    The future is speaking to their father’s… But do their father’s listen?
    Ahhh… Their wallets speak louder, it appears. At who’s peril?

  20. }}} My motto: I have yet to see a wind farm, a solar array or geothermal plant poison the land sea or air like we witness, and many deny, from coal, oil/gas and nuclear every day.

    My motto, the fact that you are abysmally ignorant of something does not change the facts about it.

    Solar cell production is an offshoot of computer chip production. Computer chip production is one of THE most toxic-chemical producing processes humans are involved in. And, unlike computer chips, which get smaller and smaller, we’re talking about making larger and large surface areas using these processes.

    The production of wind turbines requires massive amounts of certain chemicals which are not ridiculously present in the earth’s soil (aluminum, iron, etc.) but less common ones, which must be mined and refined, producing both extensive mine tailings and doing various nasties to the earth itself as a part of the mining process. And the turbines themselves? Well they don’t actually do squat to production of AGW gases (if you buy into that scam, which I don’t — but this is BESIDE the point), because, being unreliable sources of energy, do nothing to cut back on the amount of power that must be kept on standby generators, meaning that even when it’s producing energy, there are needful turbines wasting energy just spinning idle.

    Geothermal is wonderful, but, as an energy source, it’s pretty much tapped out. We already have all the Geothermal energy sources of the USA under load.

    So you advocate in favor of solar and wind, both of which are extensively manufactured in… China. You know, that place where the air pollution was so bad that people at the last Olympics could not miss it?

    No, “moving it back to the USA” will not change that, because the mining for the turbines will still need to be done in China, where the stuff used to MAKE the turbines is, and thence the main polluting activity will still occur outside the USA’s control in every manner. And moving the solar production back here won’t help, because you’ll still have to DO something with all those toxic byproducts of the process, which there is no ready, effective storage or disposal technology for dealing with… Sorta like nuclear byproducts, BUT WITH NO “half-life” AT ALL.

    The nuclear power industry is more than amply capable of making relatively fail-safe reactor designs, and anyone who understands technology at all would know this. Every significant single issue with nuclear power over the last 40 years has devolved on either very low, very small dangers (generally vastly blown out of proportion by the media) which resulted from extensive abuse and/or triple-failure points of 60s-70s reactor designs (we’ve learned A LOT about design since then) or, in the case of Chernobyl, a rejected design from the 1950s that has virtually never been used in commercial Western power production.

    It is simple truth that nuclear power is the ONLY known system of commercial-level power production which can even BEGIN to contain ALL its waste products. IF you’re going to take AGW seriously, it is the ONLY system which can be justified in the coming decades without impoverishing the world. And I have news for you: The world is not about to be impoverished. Having seen how it CAN live, it is going to DEMAND that it be allowed to live that way. If The West insists on impoverishing itself, it will succeed in doing that, but this will not change the course of humanity.

  21. ” It’ll be pretty damned impressive if Jobs manages to come back and save the company THIS time.”

    If they can arrange for Jobs to come back I am definitely buying their stock – I might even toss the pc-compatible.

  22. IGotBupkis,
    That nuclear issue… Look up Atoms For Peace.
    The Chickens are home roosting… Duck and cover!

  23. IGotBupkis,
    So you refute the polling?
    Or you refute the reporting of the poll?
    Or, do you prefer ad homonym’s as your retort?

    You did read the poll? NO?

  24. “Geothermal is wonderful, but, as an energy source, it’s pretty much tapped out. We already have all the Geothermal energy sources of the USA under load.”

    Yellowstone is tapped out? Really?
    Or are you suggesting the Earth’s core is cooled off and that magma flows have stopped…

  25. So you advocate in favor of solar and wind, both of which are extensively manufactured in… China.

    ‘Tis a pity we outsourced manufacturing for better profits… EH?

  26. }}} If Apple did bring back it’s manufacturing to the US, they’d be on the road to putting that shameful Foxconn episode behind them, because Americans sure wouldn’t tolerate Chinese style work conditions.

    Annie operates under the notion that there is any money — or jobs — in manufacture available any longer for a nation like the USA.

    Annie, do you know how the USA’s manufacturing-only sector ranks in the world? Suppose the USA’s manufacturing sector alone was a nation unto itself… where would it rank compared to the nations of the world?

    100? No.

    50? No.

    20? No.

    THIRD. Yes, the USA’s manufacturing economy, all by itself, ranks tied with Germany’s WHOLE economy at third, behind only the WHOLE economies of China and Japan… They make LOTS of money, they just don’t hire a lot of workers any longer.

    Because “actually making things” is not the route to money and wealth in the USA any longer… and if we are making things, it’s in robotic factories (seriously — as China’s economy ramps up, and the cost of paying workers goes up, a LOT of its manufacturing is coming BACK to the USA — do a search on “reshoring”…

    Actually making the final product, that’s not a way to make money any longer.

    .

    .

    Annie, do you know how much money the iPhone 4, “Made in China” paid China for Chinese workers? We’re talking out of a retail price of $600…

    How much of that went to China?

    $400? No.

    $200? No

    $100? No.

    $50!!?!? Surely!?!? NO.

    FIVE BUCKS. that’s what China got from Apple for the production of the iPhone. The rest of it went to various other nations for patents held and designs made.

    Yes — FIVE BUCKS

    Apple iPhone: Designed in U.S., Assembled in China
    http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/07/iphone-designed-by-apple-in-us.html
    (original source:)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/technology/06iphone.html?_r=0

    If you do bring production back to America, what is going to happen is not that production employment expands, here — what will happen is that a robotic factory will be built which employs few workers.

    And that is as it should be.

    In 1870, 90% of US workers worked on Farms. By 1970, less than 10% of US workers worked on farms. Did we scream about “lost farm work”? No. Because the factory jobs everyone had were better than those farm jobs. Anyone over 70 can tell you of people they knew as kids who had lost fingers and limbs because of some accident involving farm machinery. How many people do you know NOW who have lost anything as a result of employment. One? Two? More likely, if someone lost anything, it was some random accident. Nowadays, between 2% and 5% of all Americans work in the agricultural sector of the economy.

    Now we’re in the same process — with robots taking the place of factory workers, just as mechanization did for farm workers. You can see it coming — a future when 2% to 5% of all Americans work in the industrial sector of the economy.

    he future lies in “Service and IP jobs” — no, not “McJobs” — those are for people with only “McSkills”. The vast majority of new jobs reside in creative work of various kinds, much of it clerical and professional labor — two of the largest “future” jobs lies in software production and in legal paperwork… the demands for software professionals of all types — graphics designers, programmers, project managers — is going up sharply, and the demand for paralegals — the ones who do the “grunt work” of professional legal work — are also high.

    Neither of those are low-paying jobs, either. And even base level clerical work typically pays in the 25k-30k for entry level positions. Project manager positions pay in the high five figures right now.

    Manufacturing jobs… they don’t. And never will again.

  27. The nuclear power industry is more than amply capable of making relatively fail-safe reactor designs

    Biggest line of B.S. EVER!!!

    “More than capable…”
    … Yet incapable to date.

    Why haven’t the Mark V reactors in the USA been shut down?
    Fukushima proves they are a Pinto. They go BOOM!
    With ZERO containment…

    Why haven’t the spent fuel pools in the USA’s Mark V reactors emptied, YET?
    Three years, almost to the date. Still 40 fee in the air!

    My motto, the fact that you are abysmally ignorant of something does not change the facts about it.”
    BINGO! Nuclear power continues to be abysmally ignorant, refusing to acknowledge the facts!

  28. IGotBupkis,
    Sorry, I missed the links of the Wind spills…
    Sorry, I missed your links of the Solar meltdowns…

    Please link.

  29. Pretty good PR stunt. Been a user of Apple since 1990. Like what was stated earlier, it was Jobs who saved it. Especially when they decided they were no longer a computer company, but a software company. But a PowerComputing machine with the Mac OS, and it is still the hands-down best computer I ever had–hardware wise. Jobs came back and put an end to that in a hurry. I have a notebook that has died, a dying iMac, and 2 iPhones in the house with intermittent problems. The new Darth Vader trash can may make things different, but I am not sure. I was just glad to see “assembled in USA” on my new iMac box.
    However, I do have to say climate change is pretty much the reality. I’m no scientist, but I can see where putting all that carbon on one spot of the carbon cycle is going to cause problems. But–there will always be flat-earthers. Heck, there was still one of those on TV recently. Didn’t someone on Professor Turley’s blog post about energy from Thorium a while back?? Sounded pretty good to me. Better than coal. And better than watching the beautiful Appalachian Mountains get chopped down. If you haven’t seen that in person, it is quite the spectacle. Chilling may be more the word.

  30. @annieofwi. Details of the work conditions inside the Foxconn factories are missing from the articles in the links you provided. There are inferences, but no clear causal relationships appear in the articles linking employee deaths to working conditions. There is one mention of an investigation, but no report of the results.

    There is detail of the long working hours for one employee, a single data point out of about 350,000 employees at the Foxconn site. Having worked enough consecutive weeks of 80 and 90 hours, I can personally attest to how wearing that is, but I am alive to write about it.

    One social problem that both factory managers and the China Labor Bureau have been unable to resolve is the burning desire of young workers in China at all levels to earn as much money as they can so they can marry, buy a house, increasingly a car, and begin a family. The situation is exacerbated by the noteworthy fact that the #1 motivator across Asian populations is money. Research from 2002 published by Drake Beam Morin substantiates that fact. Many managers, regardless of their country of origin, are happy to take advantage of the motivation for money and let their employees work very long hours.

    The Labor Bureau is caught between conflicting imperatives. One one hand, the driving imperative of the Central Government is to maintain a harmonious society. The ability to earn the money required to pay for middle class trappings, grandparents’ medical expenses, better education for children, and savings for retirement all result in a more contented population. On the other hand, the restrictive requirements of the overhaul of the labor laws a few years ago prevent, on paper, working very long hours and major overtime earnings.

    The Labor Bureau seems to selectively enforce the regulations. Foreign companies, particularly Japanese, appear to bear the enforcement brunt as an arm of foreign policy. Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, the the foreign policy of the Central Government is to draw Taiwan closer to Greater China. Enforcing the recent changes to the labor law against Foxconn runs counter to the foreign policy objective. Thus, Foxconn has (is tacitly allowed?) a certain amount of leeway in how it manages its workforce.

    Apple and other Foxconn customers have a major challenge to demand behaviors of Foxconn that run counter to Asian motivators and the imperatives of the Central Government. There is no simple solution. Unilateral legislation by the US to correct what we in the US perceive as labor ills will only exacerbate the already tense relationship with China.

  31. The PBS article I linked to, discusses shale oil production as part of the potential boom and states fracking has been documented to contaminate ground water only once. I find this hard to believe, I wish It were so, but we’ve heard so many cases of the awful environmental consequences of fracking and the disruptions in the lives of those who live near tracking sites.

  32. }}} Why haven’t the Mark V reactors in the USA been shut down?
    Fukushima proves they are a Pinto. They go BOOM!
    With ZERO containment…

    Dude, Fukishima took THREE — count ’em THREE “once in a century” events — simultaneously — to take the freaking thing down

    FIRST it takes an earthquake of a particularly high order of magnitude. STILL no problem.

    SECOND, it takes a tsunami high enough to breach walls predicted to handle the worst tsunami expected within a century. STILL no problem.

    THIRD, it requires a failure of pumping systems which are flooded by the tsunami. AND THEN — and only THEN — is it finally noted that the POWER system for replacement pumps that could be flown in DO NOT USE THE SAME CONNECTORS, and are hence useless.

    Any ONE of those three things does not happen, NOTHING happens at Fukishima.

    How much do you want to bet that, within 5 days of Fukishima, that that connector issue was being addressed, and that, within 8 weeks, there was a temporary fix available for every reactor in the western world, and that there was a requirement put in place for a permanent fix within a year or so?

    And we are talking about a reactor designed — as I pointed out but you attempt to completely blow off — in the 1960s.

    We’ve learned a few things about both engineering and plant design since then.

    }}} Biggest line of B.S. EVER!!!

    No, the biggest line of BS is you claiming you know ANYTHING about the process of power generation, and have ANY clue about why one method might or might not be better than another under any given circumstance.

  33. annie,
    It appears that maybe your iPad can’t learn if beyond the io5. Sorry.
    My I phone is that way. I have the red squiggles that tell me of a word issue and I hit the (x) to clear it. It doesn’t learn. I have to wait for an update.

    There are dictionary apps that do learn for iBooks and iNotepad.
    Hope this helps.

  34. Yeah, max is busy citing examples of the exact crap I pointed out. Groundwater ALREADY long known to contain methane, and be randomly flammable, due to naturally occurring methane pockets nearby.

    But of course, because someone with deep pockets is fracking nearby, the ONLY possible explanation (even though most of the cases have multiple known examples of it occurring for the last several decades, long before anyone was fracking) it can ONLY be due to the fracking.

    }}} Max-1
    }}} IGotBupkis, Or, do you prefer ad homonym’s as your retort?

    I have news for you, Max…. you need to learn what ad homonym means.

    If I say you are ignorant, and then stop talking, then THAT is ad homonym.

    But if I say you are ignorant, and then list off the REASONS why you are ignorant, then I have not done anything of the sort. I’ve more than amply shown you to be ignorant. You claim wind and solar are clean, whereas I’ve pointed out that all you’ve done is put the pollution out of sight into another nation far, far away. This is not an improvement for anyone but YOU.

    The Chinese, and the Japanese, and the Koreans will be paying for your folly for CENTURIES as they try and clean this crap back up. Their children will get cancers they would not have had, if we had kept our power generation where it belonged. They will have thousands of EARLY DEATHS due to your foolish notion that wind and solar are “clean”, just because YOU don’t see the pollution.

    China would probably create a lot of pollution on its own as it bootstraps itself up to modern industrial capacities, and gets wealthy enough in the process to actually do things to clean up the waste products of its industrial power.

    But people like you add vastly to that pollution by paying them to take on your own wasteful activities which cannot — would not — pay for themselves if you were forced to do them here.

  35. IGotBupkis,
    Are my feelings supposed to be hurt?
    No, the biggest line of BS is you claiming you know ANYTHING about the process of power generation, and have ANY clue about why one method might or might not be better than another under any given circumstance.
    ‘Cause they aren’t.

    Call me names all you want, I just want links to that Wind farm spill that poisoned the local community for generations to come… I’ll patiently wait those links.

  36. I have news for you, Max…. you need to learn what ad homonym means.

    ad ho·mi·nem [ad hom-uh-nuhm -nem, ahd‐]
    adjective
    1. appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason.
    2. attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument.

    To date you have appealed to my ignorance… And called me as much.
    O.K. ad homonim away…

  37. IGotBupkis,
    Groundwater ALREADY long known to contain methane, and be randomly flammable, due to naturally occurring methane pockets nearby.”

    Link it or you’re lying.
    The pre-existing flammable water from local wells sans fracking.

  38. IGotBupkis,
    But people like you add vastly to that pollution by paying them to take on your own wasteful activities which cannot — would not — pay for themselves if you were forced to do them here.

    Now you blame me… with that broad brush of ad hominem.
    My fault!

    I never was behind outsourcing.
    I believe in BUY AMERICAN!

    FACT:
    The outsourced manufacturing has contributed to CO2 out put because the Federal regulations in this Country would have ensured less pollution output, NOT MORE, like in China where regulations are very low.

  39. IGotBupkis,
    So, are you essentially saying that the manufacturing of wind turbines is bad because… the CO2 produced acquiring the necessary materials?

    So, brill baby, drill. Instead?

    An ounce of prevention is too much…
    … Bring on the pound of pollution, instead?

    Wouldn’t the continued burning of fossil fuels, sans the extraction process, be worse than, say, less burning fossil fuels to light your lamp because now, it’s light from the wind turbine?

    Did you know it costs less to maintain per year, too?
    … Less than coal, gas/oil OR nuclear. Maintenance costs alone!

  40. p.s.
    Those maintenance costs can be passed on to the consumer!
    Imagine THAT!

    Imagine your local power company pays YOU to produce power for the grid!
    … Or at least issues you credits toward your next bill!

    What can be so wrong with cleaner power and less cost, or even credits?

    Fossil Fuel is on it’s way out…
    … Don’t expect it to go out without a fight!

  41. I just want links to that Wind farm spill
    ======================================

    the whole town was blown away :)

    i was just reading about some guy trying to stop wind farms in Britain because it is threatening to “desecrate our landscape”.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2381610/GRIFF-RHYS-JONES-crusade-stop-wind-farms-solar-panels-wrecking-favourite-landscapes.html

    i don’t understand how windmills are less a part of the landscape than fenced off squares with cows in them.

  42. sorry, poorly worded sentence. Should read above:
    “Wouldn’t the continued burning of fossil fuels, sans the extraction process for materials for alt. energy forms…”

  43. NAS & Royal Society Move Climate Talk From Debate To Mitigation
    http://planetsave.com/2014/02/27/nas-royal-society-move-climate-talk-debate-mitigation/#loI8JPufst51XeKO.99

    The U.S. National Academy of Sciences and The Royal Society of London debut Climate Change: Evidence & Causes, a new publication produced jointly by the two world-leading scientific institutions, live on the internet on Thursday, February 27, 2014, from 10:00-11:30 EST.

    The new publication bills itself as “a brief, readable reference document for decision makers, policy makers, educators, and other individuals seeking authoritative information on the some of the questions that continue to be asked” about climate change. A UK-US team of leading climate scientists wrote the document, and climate scientists and others reviewed it.
    (continued at link)

  44. }}} i don’t understand how windmills are less a part of the landscape than fenced off squares with cows in them.

    LOL,

    First off, tell that to the Kennedys. Teddy tried to block one off Cape Cod before he passed away… April 27, 2006:
    WASHINGTON — As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy’s bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project, potentially
    reviving efforts to construct the sprawling windmill farm in Nantucket Sound.
    http://people.uncw.edu/imperialm/UNCW/PLS_521/Kennedy_Cape%20Wind_B_Globe_4_27_06.pdf

    Second, I’ve never lived near one, but I gather they’re pretty loud, and a very recognizable, penetrating kind of noise for that, too.

    Third, a lot of people don’t like seeing massive amounts of technology in their view of nature. Keep in mind that windmills are not just low on the ground, they generally have to be placed up on ridges where they are highly visible and generally dominating the view.

  45. 1961 Nuclear Reactor Meltdown : The SL-1 Accident – United States Army Documentary – WDTVLIVE42

    Simi Valley Nuclear Disaster

  46. IGotBupkis,
    Which is more preferred:

    A) A wind turbine pushed by clean air
    B) Beijing smog

    I’ll take the distant whoosh of a wind mill over terminal lung cancer…
    HANDS DOWN!

  47. “Second, I’ve never lived near one, but I gather they’re pretty loud, and a very recognizable, penetrating kind of noise for that, too.
    Yep, the I don’t know, but I do know theory…

    Do Wind Turbines Make Noise?

    You be the judge.

  48. Elaine M.
    Cool.

    Sorry I haven’t comment directly about your Apple article.
    I’m upset that big corporations are setting the rules nowadays, in general.
    I am glad, that big corporations are making it clear who they will do business with. Very mixed on THAT issue, IMO. However, what it takes in America, it seems, is Corporate Power to get the job done.

    To date, we’ve had the coal, oil/gas and nuclear set the agenda.
    And like I said before, why, when we witness poison entering out environment in big ways, do we buy into, ‘More of what ills you is better for you’ mentality.

    Remember the clean coal push a few years back?
    What ever happened to it? Oh… Beijing.

  49. }}} Max-1
    Up next:
    Wind turbines kill birds.
    True.

    Up next: Max tries to blow off the fact that wind turbines are killing PROTECTED BIRDS, many of which are much too large for cats to get at.

    And note how max ignores the bats, which are no doubt far more relevant to the ecosystem than he grasps, as a source of bug control, for one thing.

    There is plenty of evidence that windfarms kill California Condors in numbers which would SHUT DOWN any other business.

    But hey, who the hell cares about a bunch of stinking PROTECTED BIRDS… right? Much better to keep a completely invalid, total fantasy of “small footprint” energy alive, right…? So what if it kills as much as a third of a protected species released into the wild by conservationists…? Feh. They’re just scavengers anyway!!

  50. Notice how max is just parroting things, by the way, and how he expresses no understanding of the actual facts involved.

    :Here look, a link” and nothing more… IF that.

  51. }}} Remember the clean coal push a few years back?
    What ever happened to it? Oh… Beijing.

    Remember the clean coal push a few years back?
    What ever happened to it?
    Oh… Bama.

    MIDDLE CLASS KILLER… Obama’s New Clean Coal Rules Will Increase Energy Costs By 70-80% (Video)

  52. There is much talk about “PC” (politically correct).

    Here is the better reality, “SC” … socially correct.

    “We got your back” means a lot more when people who care about social injustice say it; think of a target on your back when certain politicians say it.

    Apple has a sense of SC.

  53. Bron

    It is one thing to benefit the blind by making products easy to use, that has universal application, it is quite another to make long term business decisions based on climate change. Especially when we are sitting on huge deposits of coal, oil and natural gas.
    ==================
    SC beats PC.

  54. To the conservative mind, corporations are people unless they show a conscience or a heart or a brain.

  55. I just dont understand Americans… Apple is their own company, born and bred in USA, yet they wish it dead to support a Korean company, that takes their money, profits etc. are they really that stupid? Wow

  56. ” NCPPR’s proposal was rejected by Apple’s shareholders. It received just 2.95 percent of the vote.”

    There is the future right there. It is going to need a lot of help, but luckily those under 45 want more of this, not less.

    The tide is turning against wealth for wealth’s sake. And those that cling to it will not prevent the future from arriving in which fewer and fewer people care how much money you have. The old materialistic “American dream” is a non-starter for most. For them, the waveform of the dollar has already collapsed. That wealth is already spoken-for.It’s a dead end that only lavishes those who do not need it.

    We can expect a wee bit of resistance, as the off-key NCPPR and such are unlikely to challenge their own entitlement to greed.

    But it won’t matter. The young were raised in increasingly complex simulations that inch closer to reality each year, and many have their own economies. Second LIfe has a vibrant Linden economy, for example. Simulations yet unrun will be prospected not by Wall Street titans, but anyone with a computer and a penchant for escaping the bonds placed on us by the wealthy.

  57. ” Apple is their own company, born and bred in USA,”

    The idea that large corporations have any national affiliation is rapidly passing into history. For the most part they are global. The pick the bast places for their factories based on criteria like low cost and quality of production, they pick the best places to realize profits based on tax rates, even location for head quarters is sometime chosen on the basis of global advantage.

    The idea that Apple is an American company or that certain cars are Japanese is not very meaningful today and will likely be less so in the future.

  58. “The old materialistic “American dream” is a non-starter for most.”

    What is the American Dream? I think it has had many iterations over the course of our country. From a small plot of land to feed your family to owning a railroad company or steel mill to having a job with one company for 30 years and a nice retirement to today where I see people wanting to work for themselves by starting small businesses of every kind and growing them or not.

    The American Dream, except for that time when people wanted a secure job, is about creating your own life to the best of your ability, it is about freedom and individual liberty. The ability to follow your dreams and if you are able, to achieve those dreams. There are 300 million plus American Dreams, from the materialistic to those who want to surf all day and party all night to those who want to help other people in some fashion.

    America should be the land where all that is possible, Jefferson’s Pursuit of Happiness is our birth right but it is not owed to us. Liberty means personal responsibility and with that comes the freedom to fail or succeed.

    Materialism? Who makes money without a passion for something? Very few people start out saying I want to make a sh*t ton of money, they start with an idea and if it is good and they work hard and get a break here or there, they become wealthy.

    Liberty is the American Dream from which all good things come.

  59. And others are recommending people shift from Apple stock based upon other reasons… I read that on an advance sheet…

  60. Reblogged this on The Red Elm and commented:
    I don’t usually post political pieces to this blog but it’s more legal than political, anyhow, and it’s a really good article about technology, corporate citizenship, and sustainability.

  61. “America should be the land where all that is possible,”

    This pretty much sums up the simulated universe, of which there are tens of thousands of world-places, some connected, though none are precisely called “America.” When quantum computers arrive in the mainstream, the human mind will be fooled into thinking it’s all quite real. The local universe will just be another place one visits for certain things. By 2024 latest. Likely sooner.

    The dream, however, lives on.

    Meanwhile, real America just plain flat out doesn’t work any more, not in idea, not in practice. And this was quite on purpose, e.g. by drowning in a bathtub Norquist-style. Regrettably for him, the future just keeps on a-comin’, still at the rate of Moore’s Law. And, ultimately, Norquist lacks the strength to hold America under water long enough. Cleaning up his wreckage will be our lot.

  62. @bigfatmike “…The idea that large corporations have any national affiliation is rapidly passing into history…”

    there are other examples out there. I know Germany is really boring as a country, but it might make sense to study the way they do things. All the brands you perceive as “German brands” are actually headquartered in Germany and pay taxes there. German law dictates that 50% of the board have to be labor representatives, which caps excessive management salaries and leads to consensus decisions with regards to wage increases and moving production abroad. German consumers are aware of these things and will base their purchase decisions on these kind of facts.
    You are right about Apple though, they are essentially an Irish company today, because that’s where they got the best deal.

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