New Jersey Governor Chris Christie strongly suggests that you go before taking to the New Jersey non-toll roads. As another example of how states are selling or reducing basic services in this economic crisis, Christie will close the last two restrooms to save $270,000.
You can still use a bathroom on the tollroads like the New Jersey turnpike. However, on the non-toll roads it is back to the state of nature in New Jersey. This may why Christie tried not to laugh when he is on the road and his reaction to attempts at humor, here.
I will add my usual complaint that we have spent hundreds of billions in these two wars while we cannibalize on our resources at home with states selling off public land and ending basic public programs, here.
For the full story, click here
Gyges:
I fundamentally disagree with the concept of taxes. But I am realistic in understanding that it isnt going to go away anytime soon.
That article you liked to seems to be saying that a family/person making about $100,000 (top of 4th 20%) pays $35,000 in all taxes. That seems low to me. But using that number it amounts to the following:
a kitchen remodel
a year at most colleges
a new car or maybe 2
a small addition to your house
a down payment on a new vacation home
a new boat
new appliances for the kitchen
new furniture for the entire house
a great vacation
And all of those things create real jobs.
Taxes are not voluntary, if I don’t pay I face the full force of the government to make me pay. We vote but we really don’t have a say in how our money is spent. I cant call my congressman and say hey guy spend less on pork. I can call but I have no say, no one is going to listen to me. How am I being represented? They just answer the phone stroke you a few times and send you some BS letter.
Byron,
Here is a segment with Steven Greenhut, author of Plunder!, about public sector unions. I finished reading it a few weeks ago and highly recommend it. It goes beyond the economic cost of these unions, talking at length about the role of unions in elections and shocking abuses of power and special privilege by unionized government employees at all levels.
In this interview he correctly asserts that public sector unions “are a permanent lobby for more government.”
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BduQxAugn4c&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0]
Byron,
You said public property wasn’t really public because even though one has given the money to the government in the form of taxes it was still their money because taxes aren’t voluntary. I rehashed the idea of the Social Contract for you.
To which you reply “taxes are too high.”
Does that seems sequitar to you?
As an interesting aside, according to the Tax Institute (which seems to be fairly in favor of a flat or sales tax), the top 20% of income earners pay 48.8% of all taxes and earn 41.5% of all income, with the all other 20% chunks having a difference of less than 5.5 between the income/taxes: (the chart’s on page 23)
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/wp1.pdf
There’s a difference between “not paying federal income taxes” and “not paying taxes.”
Gyges:
When a little over 50% of the budget goes to social programs we pay too much in taxes. When almost 50% of the people pay no taxes, we who do are paying too much. I also am competing with people who don’t pay taxes in terms of voting and representation. Have we reached the point where some of the citizenry is voting perks for itself?
We need a flat tax where everyone pays the same amount as a percentage of income. Then everyone has a ax in the fire.
eLAINE:
“Look what happened to our country when Dubya and Dickie were in charge!”
Well that is a point. But I think as Puzzling is pointing out above isn’t it a little round about to have government unions providing money to elected reps so that wages and benefits can be increased? The elected officials raise the wages and get more money for re-election. I don’t know about you but I see a conflict of interest.
If K St. is bad then this is bad. If this is acceptable then K St. is acceptable. Personally I think both are bad and artificially distort markets and wages.
Byron–
“If government is so great and moral as everyone here seems to think, then there is no necessity for government employees to have need for a union.”
Speaking for myself: I didn’t say that government is moral–but like any organization, corporation, association–it’s run by people. Humans have their foibles. One bad or incompetent boss or leader can create a lot of problems–sometimes for a lot of people. Look what happened to our country when Dubya and Dickie were in charge!
Byron has it exactly right when he states:If government is so great and moral as everyone here seems to think, then there is no necessity for government employees to have need for a union.
I would not favor government restrictions on the formation of private sector unions.
Buddha, you wrote that “Currently lobbying rules are simply institutionalized graft.” True – but who are the biggest lobbyists? Public sector unions!
From the Sacramento Bee:
I cant speak for Puzzling but I am not against private sector unions, labor has a right to organize if they wish. Why do government sector workers even need a union? If government is so great and moral as everyone here seems to think, then there is no necessity for government employees to have need for a union.
I can see why teachers might need one as there are some crazy parents out there ready to sue at the drop of a hat. But insurance could be bought privately to protect for that possibility.
By the way Buddha, I bought a book on logic by a Stanley Jevon, don’t they call what you wrote above argumentum ad populum?
“The artificially high wages forced on the economy by compulsory unionism imposed economic hardships on other groups—particularly on non-union workers and on unskilled labor, which was being squeezed gradually out of the market. Today’s widespread unemployment is the result of organized labor’s privileges and of allied measures, such as minimum wage laws. For years, the unions supported these measures and sundry welfare legislation, apparently in the belief that the costs would be paid by taxes imposed on the rich. The growth of inflation has shown that the major victim of government spending and of taxation is the middle class. Organized labor is part of the middle class—and the actual value of labor’s forced “social gains” is now being wiped out.”
That was written in late 60’s or early 70’s.
The truth of that statement is self evident. Pittsburg, Detroit, Gary, and many other cities that once had vibrant economies are proof enough. Now South Korea, Bangledesh, China, India and other countries produce what we used to.
Byron,
The thing is, you don’t get to choose which benefits of living in America you enjoy. It’s not like you can say “here’s the deal, I’ll give up my right against unreasonable search and seizure, any benefit I get from living in a society with low illiteracy, and not having open sewers, and you cut my taxes by say 30%.”
Luckily, you do get a say (at least indirectly) in what those taxes are used for. As far as I’m concerned, if you’ve voted, (or enjoyed the benefits of anything that taxes pay for) you’ve agreed to participate in the system, part of which is paying taxes. I seem to remember some pertinent phrase, something about taxes and representation.
Once it’s been payed in taxes, it’s no longer private funds.
Correction: My parents remembered what life was LIKE for many workers before unions came on the scene to help fight for better working conditions and paid vacations and holidays.
I’m with Buddha and mespo! My parents remembered what life was life for many workers before unions came on the scene to help fight for better working conditions and paid vacations and holidays.
My own Experience:
My local teacher organization fought for more healthful working conditions in my school and other schools in the community where I taught. When individual or small groups of teachers or parents in our district complained to administrators about mold, mildew, poor ventilation–we were ignored. We had to enlist the help of our teacher association. Then the problems were finally addressed. One of our elementary schools even had to be shut down for nearly half a school year because of toxic mold.
Our association also had to fight to get a new heating system in my school. The old heating system broke down every couple of weeks. There were days when the temperatures were below freezing outside and there was no heat in the building. We teachers and our students often spent the day with our winter coats on.
If all companies treated their employees well–there would be no need for unions!
I agree with Buddha. I know of 29 coal miner families in West Virginia who wish a union was in place at the Upper Big Branch mine run by Massey Coal. Government regulation and inspection of the ventilation system did nothing to prevent this tragedy.
You both need to change both your names to “I Don’t Understand the History That Led to the Formation of Unions”.
Unsafe working conditions.
Substandard pay.
Abusive employment practices.
A willingness by owners to let employees die if it insured their profits or secured a cost savings.
Employing children.
Employing illegal aliens.
Employing people not trained or skilled enough to do jobs that are not only dangerous to the worker, but to the public.
Using private paramilitary to intimidate workers.
Yeah, if you want to do away with lobbying for cash period?
I’m right with you. Currently lobbying rules are simply institutionalized graft. Everyone on K St. should be unemployed and/or in the pokey.
But both of you seem to have some kind of Pollyanna view that owners and management are all just good people looking out for their employees. Which is simply pie in the sky bullshit. “Owners good, workers bad”. You might as well say “the desires of the few outweigh the needs of the many”. Having money or control of a business does not equate to being a good person. It equates to having money and control of a business and nothing more.
No. Unions are one of the few bullwarks against corporatism (fascism) that exist aside from government (when it works properly – which I will stipulate that lobbying as currently practiced is why it doesn’t work at all). Your slavish devotion to unrestricted capitalism prevents you from seeing that and you keep regurgitating that “Unions Bad/Management Good” trope.
Yeah, let’s go back to the days leading up to the Battle of Matewan. Oops! Looks like we already have! And DESPITE a union presence.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36768314/
Yeah.
But unions are somehow the root of all evil. Uh huh. Tell that to the dead miners.
Puzzling:
You need to change your name to Crystal Clear. 🙂
Byron,
That’s agreed on 1913.
1962 added insult to injury: the birth year of public sector unions. Here we sit 48 years later and there are more public sector union members than private ones.
Unions are the biggest lobby for more government and can run and install politicians who continue government’s boundless growth, benefitting union power even further. Public sector unions are actively architecting a ruling class that has the power to steal from private citizens, enjoys lifetime employment, platinum pensions, unpunished abuses of power and countless other “benefits.”
Gyges,
You asked Do you want to close all the bathrooms at capital buildings to save on cleaning supplies?
No, I do not want to do that. I want to take the “s” out of capital buildings.
it is “the garden state”. now passers through can help fertilize
Gyges:
If you gave the money voluntarily I agree. Taxes are not voluntary.
I would prefer if the land was sold to a private company but that will probably not happen so I propose this as a compromise.
It looks to me as if New Jersey cant afford A, B or C.
Byron,
As far as I know, every public rest area in the country was payed for by state (and federal) funds; the state owns it. That’s what makes it public. Unless you think that taxes are still private funds after they’re collected, which is like saying that even after I give my brother a beer it’s my beer. It’s not, it WAS my beer, but now it’s his.
Once again, the 203,000 figure is roughly .002% of the budget shortfall, and far less of the total state budget. They CAN afford the maintenance, fairly easily. This month I want to buy A, B, and C, which in total cost $100, but I only have $65 to spend. While I can’t afford to get A, B, and C, that doesn’t mean I can’t afford to get A. Especially if A is only $.07.
For someone who claims to want government out of business and business out of government you’re arguing pretty strongly to mix the two up.
Gyges:
What is public property? It was purchased with the funds of private individuals. And how is the leasing of a rest area to Starbucks outside the public good? If the land is lying idle and the state cannot afford to fund it’s maintenance why not lease it to a private company? The state gets revenue and the people are put to work and someone makes some money. If it is a public company the stock holders (you and me) may see a jump in price or an extra dividend. How is that bad?
There is nothing wrong with profit, it creates wealth and puts people to work.