Submitted by Lawrence Rafferty, (rafflaw), Guest Blogger
After a few recent discussions about Free Speech in earlier threads, I came across another example of how limited our Free Speech really is. At a recent speech by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a former CIA employee, Ray McGovern, attempted to protest her speech about Democracy and Freedom of Speech and how the freedom to disseminate information helped the Egyptians rid themselves of a brutal dictator.
“As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spoke in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday about the failures of foreign leaders to respect people’s freedoms, a 71-year-old U.S. veteran Army officer, a man who spent 27 years in the CIA and delivered presidential daily briefs, a peace activist and proponent of nonviolence, the man who famously confronted Donald Rumsfeld for his war lies, the man who drafted our letter to Spain and delivered it to the Spanish Embassy on Monday, our friend Ray McGovern turned his back in silence. As Clinton continued to speak about respecting the rights of protesters, her guards — including an uniformed policeman and an unidentified plain-clothed official — grabbed Ray, dragged him off violently, brutalized him, double-cuffed him with metal handcuffs, and left him bleeding in jail. As he was hauled away (see video), Ray shouted “So this is America?” Clinton went right on mouthing her hypocrisies without a pause.” Truthout
When I read this sad story about Mr. McGovern, it reminded me of a similar incident where a University of Florida student named Andrew Meyer was being rude and obnoxious in asking questions of Senator John Kerry in 2007 and he was attacked by police and eventually tasered into submission. You remember the “Don’t tase me Bro” guy don’t you? What do these two stories have in common? I believe that they are both examples of our First Amendment rights being reduced or eliminated in front of our very eyes. Where was Sec. Clinton when this arrest happened? She was at the podium and didn’t bat an eye when McGovern was hauled off by police just as John Kerry allowed the tasing of Andrew Meyer to happen at his speech.
What was Mr. McGovern’s crime? He had the audacity to turn his back on Sec. Clinton’s speech! Off with his head! Well he did get to keep his head but he was thrown in jail for over 3 hours and was injured during the arrest by the officers and was not given medical assistance. What did the obnoxious Mr. Meyer do to get arrested and assaulted with a taser? He was just being a pain in the ass.
Is this the Free Speech that you imagine when you read the First Amendment? Is this the Free Speech that the founders of this country had in mind when they decided Free Speech was so important that they were going to make it the very First Amendment? Is Mr. Cox in Indiana who lost his deputy Attorney General’s job over his “give them live ammunition” tweet that Prof. Turley discussed earlier this week egregious enough to differentiate his situation from Mr. McGovern’s speech and the Taser guy’s rudeness? Are Free Speech zones actually an infringement of our Free Speech?
I think Justice William O. Douglas said it best when he described the First Amendment and its intended impact on society in the 1949 Terminello v. Chicago decision. “A function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It may indeed best serve its high purposes when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger. Speech is often provocative and challenging. It may strike at prejudices and preconceptions and have profound unsettling effects as it presses for acceptance of an idea.” Terminello
Provocative speech is supposed to be protected under the First Amendment according to Justice Douglas. Was Mr. Meyer and Mr. McGovern just being too provocative for some people’s tastes or were they actually properly exercising their right to free speech?
Submitted by Lawrence Rafferty, (rafflaw) Guest Blogger
You are correct Buddha. The Tea Party rank and file may think they got what they were after, but just look at most of the big Tea Party office holders. Crazy right wing people who in many cases are wealthy and certaintly not looking out for the middle class or common man.
Want and need are always separate concepts despite occasionally overlapping on the Venn diagram. It is this very occasional overlap that causes humans to sometimes mistake one for the other. This phenomena causes a lot of misery and suffering in the world.
Buckeye,
Amen. I do have to hand it to the Tea Party members that actually exercised their speech rights to help get what they think they wanted.
rafflaw
The pollution issue is one more area where the Tea Party rank and file should be working against, but their corporate puppet masters are still pulling their strings.
———————————————————–
Too true! God forbid they do anything to upset the Koch brothers. They’d rather do a recall of local officials to impress the populace with their power.
Buckeye,
I would agree with you on the peaceful use of our freedom of speech. I do not think the military will be an issue, because the demonstrations, if peaceful, will not allow for the corporate interests to push the military into the action.
Buckeye,
it is amazing to see how much good can come from the youth being taught in all phases of education and not just what the corporate interests want them educated in. The pollution issue is one more area where the Tea Party rank and file should be working against, but their corporate puppet masters are still pulling their strings.
Sorry. That was Mike S. not Mike A. my comment was directed to.
Mike A.
Never forget that 48 million people voted for McCain/Palin. That’s a lot of prospective Tea Party people. (See their local machinations in my comment on the Utah thread). And that civics instruction seems to be a lost art in America. (See Tootie’s comments anywhere).
You are absolutely right in that which ever side the military takes will be the winner. Happened in the French, Soviet, and now Egyptian (so far) revolutions.
Since we now have a semi-mercenary army, for all intents and purposes, I’m unsure if they will go with the flow. The years I worked as a civilian at military bases are long gone, and I don’t have a feel for the military mind any more. The “Christianization” of the top echelon is worrisome and I’d bet they will be on the corporatist side if push comes to shove. The chief of police of Madison today is one thing. Bull Connor yesterday was another.
I do know that only peaceful demonstrations work really well. Public opinion changed rapidly during the Civil Rights marches. It didn’t change so fast during the anti-Vietnam marches. And was counter-productive during the Black Panther rampages.
A vignette of something that nearly brought me to tears: Three college age kids recently came to talk to us about the problem of coal sludge production and storage. They’d actually been to people’s homes and learned of all the physical problems the locals are experiencing from heavy metals unleashed from the way “clean” coal is produced. (Ten brain tumor patients in a town of 750 when 1 in 10,000 is the norm). These kids had come from a hearing at the state capital and could tell us who should be encouraged (because they got the message) and who should be let go. It was mightily uplifting. I thought of you, Mike S. 🙂
This, of course, is your position – that things aren’t as bad as we’ve been led to believe. The problem is who and why have we been so discouraged. I think hyperbole at this site and just in the atmosphere is partly to blame. It sure turns me off.
Buddha,
I don’t know if I can agree as to what degree of heat will be felt, but I guess there has to be some strife to rid the country of its corporate entanglements.
Joint Automated Booking System.—The Joint Automated
Booking System (JABS) is a Department of Justice information sharing project that provides data to the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) through an automated process for the collection and transmission of fingerprint, photographic, and biographical data. The mission of JABS is to: (1) improve the booking process through automation; (2) enable agencies to share and exchange arrest information; and (3) maintain a federal offender tracking system.
Well said Mike S. I think part of the reason why the masses erupted in Wisconsin and Ohio and elsewhere was because the actions by the Right was hitting at people’s very existence through their paychecks. The Freedom of Speech is being used in those places to offset the massive amounts of money that the Koch Brothers and others are pouring into the fray. If we lose the ability to voice our objections to wrong headed policies we are doomed. I do believe that the “revolution” has started and it will be like none that we have seen. It will be peaceful and it will be successful if we don’t allow our freedom of speech to be eroded or taken away. I see collective bargaining as a form of speech and it allows the group to speak to the employer has one unit with the same goals.
Hans,
You are kidding, aren’t you?
Chan,
Why don’t we try to stick to the topic on the thread. Thanks.
Oooooo. Some more “I know you are but what am I” from the drive by troll department. That never ceases to be funny, Hans. I am a singular entity and I can vouch for eight more regular posters who do the same as I am in out of camera contact with them. There is also one regular who pretty much everybody knows takes a different name now and again – usually to be funny – because he often screws up his avatar and makes no secret of the fact. There is also one former regular who returned to right wing trollery and using multiple identities after a prolonged period of behaving himself, but he’s on your side, so I guess he doesn’t count as “one of us” any more. There are also two professional right wing trolls (minimum as only two have stepped out from behind the curtain) who frequent here with multiple identities but I cannot say if they use that software or not. I hope that answers your question.
Mike,
I hope you are right about a peaceful transition. Personally, I suspect it will be a “warm” transition. Not all out warfare, but plenty of strife with spikes of violence until something really awful happens to trigger the tipping point.
The JABS program supports booking and arrest activities on behalf of DOJ and its components. It helps capture, store, print, and transmit fingerprint, photographic, and biographical data to identify individuals and provide criminal history information.
TITLE 28 – JUDICIAL ADMINISTRATION
CHAPTER I – DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
PART 16 – PRODUCTION OR DISCLOSURE OF MATERIAL OR INFORMATION
subpart e – EXEMPTION OF RECORDS SYSTEMS UNDER THE PRIVACY ACT
16.131 – Exemption of Department of Justice (DOJ)/Nationwide Joint Automated Booking System (JABS), DOJ – 005.
(a) The following system of records is exempt from 5 U.S.C. 552a(c)(3) and (4), (d), (e)(1), (2), (3), (4)(G) and (H), (e)(5) and (8), (f) and (g): Nationwide Joint Automated Booking System, Justice/DOJ-005. These exemptions apply only to the extent that information in the system is subject to exemption pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552a(j)(2) and (k)(2). Where compliance would not interfere with or adversely affect the law enforcement process, the DOJ may waive the exemptions, either partially or totally.
(b) Exemption from the particular subsections are justified for the following reasons: (1) From subsections (c)(3), (c)(4), and (d) to the extent that access to records in this system of records may impede or interfere with law enforcement efforts, result in the disclosure of information that would constitute an unwarranted invasion of the personal privacy of collateral record subjects or other third parties, and/or jeopardize the health and/or safety of third parties.
(2) From subsection (e)(1) to the extent that it is necessary to retain all information in order not to impede, compromise, or interfere with law enforcement efforts, e.g., where the significance of the information may not be readily determined and/or where such information may provide leads or assistance to Federal and other law enforcement agencies in discharging their law enforcement responsibilities.
(3) From subsection (e)(2) because, in some instances, the application of this provision would present a serious impediment to law enforcement since it may be necessary to obtain and verify information from a variety to sources other than the record subject to ensure safekeeping, security, and effective law enforcement. For example, it maybe necessary that medical and psychiatric personnel provide information regarding the subject’s behavior, physical. health, or mental stability, etc. to ensure proper care while in custody, or it may be necessary to obtain information from a case agent or the court to ensure proper disposition of the subject individual.
(4) From subsection (e)(3) because the requirement that agencies inform each individual whom it asks to supply information of such information as is required by subsection (e)(3) may, in some cases, impede the information gathering process or otherwise interfere with or compromise law enforcement efforts, e.g., the subject may deliberately withhold information, or give erroneous information.
(5) From subsection (4)(G) and(H) because the application of these provisions would present a serious impediment to law enforcement efforts.
(6) From subsection (e)(5) because in the collection of information for law enforcement purposes it is impossible to determine in advance what information is accurate, relevant, timely and complete. With the passage of time, seemingly irrelevant or untimely information may acquire new significance and the accuracy of such information can only be determined in a court of law. The restrictions imposed by subsection (e)(5) would restrict the ability to collect information for law enforcement purposes, may prevent the eventual development of the necessary criminal intelligence, or otherwise impede law enforcement or delay trained law enforcement personnel from timely exercising their judgment in managing the arrestee.
(7) From subsection (e)(8) to the extent that such notice may impede, interfere with, or otherwise compromise law enforcement and security efforts.
(8) From subsection 5 U.S.C. 552a(f) to the extent that compliance with the requirement for procedures providing individual access to records, compliance could impede, compromise, or interfere with law enforcement efforts.
(9) From subsection (g) to the extent that this system is exempt from the access and amendment provisions of subsection (d).
[Order No. 2422001, 66 FR 41445, Aug. 8, 2001; 66 FR 44308, Aug. 17, 2001]
Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/131-doj-automated-booking-jabs-19675961#ixzz1F6g7vg2z
http://www.seankerrigan.com/pms.html
http://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf
looks like the right isnt the only one involved in trollery.
How many of you are actually singular people? You all sound the same to me.
“That they were properly exercising their right to free speech is irrelevant when dealing with jackbooted authoritarian fascist thugs who stifle dissent by any means necessary to preserve their own crooked hides and treat the Constitution like toilet paper to please their corporate bosses.”
Buddha,
You’re absolutely right about what’s going on, but with it all I’m feeling hopeful. We have been so affected by propagandist memes that even we all here use them to our detriment in discussion, simply because they have become the “lingua franca” of our age. SM uses the country is polarized meme to voice her well-founded skepticism. Given the constant assault of false messages upon us all it is not possible to escape using these memes in discussion. I state this not in criticism, but in explanation of what has befallen us all.
We are TOLD the country is polarized, with the middle class angry at the poor and the working class angry at the unions. I have stopped believing this to be true and I’ll explain why.
Since the 60’s the amount of the voter eligible population that doesn’t vote has dropped to the point where almost half of us don’t use our franchise. We are told by pundits and pollsters that people don’t vote because they are not interested in the issues, or simply don’t give a damn. To me the simplest explanation for this so-called voter apathy is that the system has proven time and again that it is not responsive to the needs of the mass of citizens. Why in hell should they vote, if they find that their votes do nothing?
The meme of this being a centrist populace is really not true either, if one takes into account that being a “centrist” today leans one far right of the center we knew prior to Reagan. That “center” is what the pundits see, but they see with the vision of their own comfort and privilege. Meanwhile, the former large middle class is disappearing, being drowned in the flood of debt and wage stagnation.
I don’t believe that the mass of people are as uninformed as they are portrayed to be. We live in a land of the “big lie” and it has so dominated media that even those of us who want freedom and justice, get caught up in the lies and despair the corporatists are selling. The Wisconsin issue would not have lasted this long if the majority of people in the US weren’t interested and didn’t understand its’ ramifications
The revolution, peaceful I predict, will come as the people coalesce in their anger towards a system skewed for the elite. There is no there, there in the “Teabag” movement, only the
cash greasing the propaganda machine. However, the internet and outlets such as this blog, do work to inform and to bring like-minded people together. The “Net” is the genie brought out of the bottle. To me a great analogy to this is the fall of the USSR. When information flowed to the Russian people of the prosperity in the West, compared to their own miserable living standards, they stopped believing in the system and it crashed.
This was assisted by the despairing Russian troops returning from their failed mission in Afghanistan and complaining to friends and family.
The mass of people today are waking up and seeing the so-called “American Dream” for the myth that it is and as that reality spreads, that’s when the tipping point gets reached. My guess is it will happen soon and fly in on the wings of massive protests,
overreaction of the elite and finally the disgust and disbelief
in the current hijack of our Constitution and then the coalescing of the mass of our society to such a degree that the political fraud is no longer viable. The mass of the LEO’s and the Armed Forces will in the end not go along with the brutality of suppression. Will we “get fooled again?” in the spirit of the Who, I’m not certain but admit the possibility. However, I am e hopeful for the assistance of this new younger generation and believe it will avoid the traps that mine fell into.
now we have Obamavilles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/us/26tents.html
Swarthmore Mom,
amen to your comment about living through the Reagan revolution. If we don’t use our free speech rights like the protestors in Madison and in Ohio and elsewhere, we will lose them and we will lose the middle class to the Tea Party crowd. If women don’t continue to use their free speech rights, what happens to women’s rights?
Buckeye, As I have said before, I encountered them in the town hall meeting. The food costs are going up because we are using food for fuel. If Obama manages to win a second term, the tea party will become increasingly violent.
Buddha, I have lived through one revolution – the Reagan revolution. It was not the revolution that I had hoped for.
S M & BIL
Nothing will happen until the food becomes scarce. That is what has always been the tipping point. With the rise in both gas prices and food prices the coming catalyst can be almost anything.
No one should doubt the Tea Party adherants and their corporate sponsers absorbtion of the effects of civil disobedience being displayed in the Middle East and plans to implement the same here. They got a taste in the town hall meetings of 2008 and they liked it very well.