Submitted By Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
The wrath from the right has been scortching ever since VP Joe Biden commented that certain freshman tea party congressmen were acting “like terrorists” in negotiations to raise the debt ceiling. There was equally no love lost when John McClain commented that the tea party freshman were acting as “deceivers” and their ideas were “bizarro.”
Now Tea Party freshman Rep. Joe Walsh (R-Ill.) (No, not the one with the Maserati that goes 185) has produced his own video decrying the incivility and telling us that “Vice President Biden, I’m not a terrorist. Terrorists target and kill people.” You can watch the lament here.
While the language employed by the VP was quite over the top, and especially so given Biden’s challenge to introduce more civility into public discourse, our freshman congressman fails to see the irony of his words. No one suggests the Tea Partiers are calling for mass extinction of liberals or undocumented aliens, or gays or the poor. But what do they want?
Here’s Nevada GOP Senate Tea Party candidate Sharon Angle on the frustration of her comrades:
“I hope that’s not where we’re going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I’ll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.”
Some Tea Party candidates are a tad less discrete in their call for violence. Here’s Texas Tea Party candidate Stephen Broden, “Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don’t think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.”
Alaska Tea Party candidate Joe Miller found a lot to like in East Germany’s “checkpoint Charlie” system of stemming the tide of freedom-seekers “immigrating” to West Berlin during the Cold War:
“The first thing that has to be done is secure the border … East Germany was very, very able to reduce the flow. Now, obviously, other things were involved. We have the capacity to, as a great nation, secure the border. If East Germany could, we could.”
And the Tea Party has a thing or two to say to liberals about the notion of any separation between church and state:
“Do you know, where does this phrase ‘separation of church and state’ come from? It was not in Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists. … The exact phrase ‘separation of Church and State’ came out of Adolph Hitler’s mouth, that’s where it comes from. So the next time your liberal friends talk about the separation of Church and State, ask them why they’re Nazis.” —Glen Urquhart, the Tea Party-backed Republican nominee for the Delaware House seat. You can even watch him here.
And then there’s that “witchy woman,” Delaware’s own Christine O’Donnell, who, when questioned about whether the Constitution calls for separation of church and state during a debate before an audience of legal scholars and law students at Widener University Law School delightfully noted, “You’re telling me that’s in the First Amendment?” Ahems were heard around the world on that one.
New York Tea Party darling Carl Paladino had this suggestion for the poor:
“Instead of handing out the welfare checks, we’ll teach people how to earn their check. We’ll teach them personal hygiene … the personal things they don’t get when they come from dysfunctional homes. These (prisons) are beautiful properties with basketball courts, bathroom facilities, toilet facilities. Many young people would love to get the hell out of cities. You have to teach them basic things — taking care of themselves, physical fitness. In their dysfunctional environment, they never learned these things.”
Then there’s the First Lady of the Tea Party, Michele Bachmann, sharing all the inside dope on what it really means to be gay (no husband jokes, please):
“If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” — then Minn. state senator Michele Bachmann
There’s scores more and they deal with all manner of insensitivity to the poor, immigrants, the 45000 Americans who die every year from inadequate health care, and just about everyone else the right likes to pillory.
Now most of these quotes were from losers in their electoral races and maybe they represent only the most extreme dunces the Tea Party has produced, but that’s not really the point is it? The point is that while the far-out Right might be justly indignant for the rhetorical excesses of the Left, they can’t seem to find the words to decry the excesses of their own camp.
There’s a word for that.
Source: Huffington Post
~Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
Nal,
I rather don’t want to add to the disagreement, but I will take exception with the characterization “You let them get to you”. The action taken was not made out of anger or malice. It was taken with, as you well know, offline deliberation and forethought concerning the repeated disruptive behavior of certain individuals. It was but one of many options discussed and moderation (as opposed to blacklisting) was not the most severe option available. Fair warning was given and went unheeded. Like mespo, I am not an absolutist and I think the drunk analogy is perfectly apt. While we can agree to disagree on the action taken, it was most certainly not an action taken based upon personal feelings.
“kderosa:
spinwell has already posted my personal details so you are late to the game.”
“Nal,
Please provide a link, I’ll delete any personal information about you.”
Woke up this morning to a controversy I hadn’t anticipated. Let me clear up this first point. I posted KD’s info after he made a statement that he’s used the identity since 1995 on the Net and that it was there for anyone to Google. I Googled versions of K DeRosa and got many different hits, which I winnowed down and then got who I thought he was. I posted that information, with the proviso that I couldn’t be sure, but when he didn’t deny it I assumed I had found it. I never used my access as a guest blogger to get any information on anyone. To be frank, I hadn’t realized that I could do so, nor was the prospect interesting to me. Later on if anyone doubts me I’ll go through the previous threads and supply the exact contents with verifying quotes.
As a matter of fact some years ago someone tracked my information down and started taunting me with threats, also using my wife’s and children’s names and giving previous home addresses. Since I’ve always used my real name here except for once using Miconoclast and a few other times with misspellings, I’m well aware of the ability to track me and the tools available to be reasonably able to ascertain my real address. When that happened to me I felt violated and I’m not the type of person who would do to others what I wouldn’t want done to me.
In KD’s case he invited it and that invitation was in response to my complaint that although he commented frequently, he was careful to reveal nothing of himself, or his beliefs. That was not a comment on my part about people using anonymity, but about adopting a political point of view, but disguising what informs it. The example of what I mean is this: On the Palin/Revere thread he kept twisting facts to defend and protect her. That is fine as far as that goes. however, He specifically presented himself as not a Palin supporter, merely a disinterested observer of what he believed was the truth. This of course precludes any rebuttals to him claiming his support for her, or her ilk influences his responses.
In and of itself this is not offensive. It was when he developed a pattern on subsequent threads of always supporting right wing positions, but still trying to portray himself as an impartial observer, that I began to take offense. This was especially so because he was at the same time characterizing myself and others of being left wingers, socialists, communists and fascists.
Call me any of those categories above and I take offense. In my history here, only a few have been here longer at this point, I have taken pains to explicitly explain I have no truck with any “isms”. I believe that “isms” are the past, present and future banes of American politics and a con game run to hide what’s really going on. However, if you characterize me in a comment to anathematize me, then I should have the equal right. KD, purposely because he is intelligent strategically, purposely gave himself deniability and that is why I attacked his sincerity and when he made his dare took him up on it.
I am still reading all the comments, so I will comment further later on..
I disagree with the disagreements of my disagreement. 🙂
The “drunk” analogies are weak. It is a lot easier to ignore a commenter’s disruptive influence by scrolling past the comment or ignoring it. You let them get to you.
WOW, what else did I miss…
Elaine M.,
I bet you and the family are ecstatic… Congratulations….
What mespo said. Nal, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. There is a reason many bars have bouncers. When people are enjoying themselves and trying to engage in a rational discussion of issues, there is no place for the person whose sole purpose in life is to start a fight and end the discussion.
Doc Slarti–you are right on your detailed assessment of sockpuppets. When I wrote that last night I was tired and more than a little riled.
I agree that there are times when one wants to reinvent oneself or for some other valid reason to create a sockpuppet. However, in a serious discussion, I see no reason at all to sow confusion by doing so. When the aim of a sockpuppet is to lie, literally, it has no place on a blog like this.
If the disruptive nonsense keeps up, I am out of here. It is one thing to disagree, quite another to simply be a boor.
Elaine:
Congratulations!!
Slarti:
You’re probably right, but the tone was quite similar hence the hypothesis.
Nal:
Personally, I have no problem with Gene moderating kderosa and Byron is Laughing. Their’s was the heckler’s veto full of incessant attack and disruptive influence. This blog is not a government,a democracy, nor anything other than a collection of minds coalescing to discuss topics of interest. When one proves their prime intent (over and over again) is to belligerently disrupt that purpose, it has to be dealt with as one would deal with a loud drunk at a dinner party. I believe in free discourse but I’m not an absolutist; I also believe it carries a responsibility, too. When there’s a disconnect between the principle and the responsibility, appropriate steps needs to occur. The phony Buddha is Laughing posting with avatar was the last straw and, In this instance and after unrelenting personal attack, I believe Gene took the proper course. I don’t think we have to suffer fools gladly to have a viable forum.
Thanks, fellas!
Yer durn tootin’, HenMan.
I agree, HenMan.
I would never use a false identity.
D’oh! Meant to say increasing taxes…
ekeyra,
Do you really think we can reduce the deficit (let alone pay down the debt) without reducing taxes? I say tax the rich more (say 50% marginal starting at $1 million) and let the pain trickle down…
Wow, when did it become scooby-doo time in here?
Elaine,
They avoided taxes, good for them. Do you really think giving their money to the government would have created jobs or any kind of real sustainable economic growth?
I wonder if Tea Partiers care if some millionaires don’t pay income taxes???
American Millionaires: 1,400 Paid No U.S. Income Taxes In 2009
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/04/irs-incomes_n_918458.html
New tax data from the Internal Revenue service shows that in 2009, incomes fell, unemployment claims rose, and the U.S. economy shed nearly two million taxpayers.
And of the 235,413 taxpayers who earned $1 million or more in 2009, 1,470 of them paid no taxes.
According to the data, the average income for American taxpayers fell to $54,283 — a drop of $3,516, or about 6.1 percent, between 2008 and 2009. Not only that, but the overall number of taxpayers — that is, individuals or married couples filing with the IRS — fell by almost two million.
“What you’re seeing is the devastation of the massive loss of jobs and the effects of the real recession on real Americans,” said Ed Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California.
The numbers, part of a package analyzing 2009 tax returns that the IRS has just made available, reflect a grim picture of the recent past.
Tax returns filed in 2009 largely speak to the state of the economy in 2008 — a time when unemployment ballooned, markets dropped precipitously and the economy languished in recession.
The IRS’s data is unlikely to surprise any of the millions of Americans who were out of work in 2008 and 2009. The unemployment rate climbed from 5 percent in April ’08 to a 25-year high in February ’09, and continued to rise for several months, topping double digits that fall with a rate of 10.2
To make it perfectly clear, I just revealed all of the gravatars that I’ve used on this site (I’ve never posted under an anonymous gravatar). I may use different voices, but I still stand by everything I say…
Elaine,
Congratulations to both you and your family on the addition. I’d like to echo what Slartibartfast said regarding you making a terrific grandmother. I know she’ll have a fun and wonderful role model in grandma, but I’m pretty sure she’ll be one of the best read kids in school. I must admit, I’m a little jealous of your pending opportunity to become reacquainted with Dr. Seuss, but I am not jealous at all for the time you’ll get with your granddaughter. Just sincerely happy for you all. I can’t wait to see the pictures.
Hey, this guy said to tell you that what that other guy said was… what was that again? Ummm… LOOK! OVER THERE!
Yeah Slarti, you said it!