Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman trial are facing a collapsing case and renewed question over whether Angela Corey succumbed to the political pressure and overcharged the case. The prosecution’s case has thus far been a disaster and many are now questioning whether charges should have been brought at all, let alone charged as second degree murder. For some inexplicable reason, the prosecutors led with Rachel Jeantel, who was one of the least compelling witnesses that they could have called from earlier perjury to ever-changing testimony. Now Angela Corey (right) and her office appear to be turning toward alternative areas of prosecution involving the daughter of one of the defense counsel.
Don West, who took apart Jeantel’s conflicted testimony on the stand, took his daughter out for ice cream and she posted on Instagram a picture with the caption: “We beat stupidity celebration cones #zimmerman #defense #dadkilledit.”
Prosecutors have asked for an inquiry on the basis that witnesses should be treated with respect. However, such rules apply to counsel not their progeny. West insists that he was not aware of the message.
The photo was actually taken the day before the cross examination.
I fail to see why the prosecutors would not accept the word of opposing counsel, particularly given the fact that this is his daughter.
Given the earlier allegations of withholding evidence in the case, the prosecutors should show a bit more judgment in my view. Of course, they have been busy presenting what appears a case for acquittal.
I have long been critical of Corey’s charging of the case as second degree murder and concerned that this was a case where public pressure influenced the prosecution. The video of Zimmerman’s account and the supporting testimony of these prosecution witnesses were known to Corey before the charges. Yet, she pursued second degree murder in what would be viewed as a difficult case even for manslaughter. I would leave counsel’s daughter alone and focus on the disaster unfolding in court.
Source: ABA Journal
Carlyle Moulton. Thats a telling quote: Travon: “Get Off” was a damning statement for me. He wasn’t saying that to Rachael, he was still talking to Zimmerman. I have heard “Get Off” used more than once before in confrontations and it is a statement that someone has put their hands on someone or moved up into their personal space to the point of being physically threatening: “Get off (me)”. It’s a defensive statement indicating that Zimmerman was the close-up aggressor.
When I first read about the case it was my thought that everything I needed to know about what happened was present in the phone conversations.
****
BTW It’s nice to see you Carlyle, I was thinking about you and a couple of other posters I haven’t seen here in a while within the last week.
Agree with Gene, re kvoorhees4 comment. This is a felony trial, not a child custody case.
Laserhaas, I listened to a CLE tape by Racehorse Haynes several years ago. It was about what juries see. In his lecture, he emphasized the fact there are a lot of eyeballs in that jury box, and collectively they see EVERYTHING. Not just what one person sees, but more like a super wide angle lens. Then they talk about it in the jury room.
Neither relevant to the case nor a valid defense for Zimmerman, kvoorhees4.
Otteray;
In preparing for my (hopefully) putting Pitten’s on trial, I’ve studied the issues of juries much. Including the pros & cons of Demanding a Jury trial and not having one. As well as the issues of random jury pools vs the possibility of “Professional Jurors”.
As it is, I concur with you (as my remarks here and elsewhere detail) – that it is what the jury sees & hears that counts. Especially as they are not permitted to watch the TV or listen to the radio concerning the case.
They get to see George Zimmerman’s reactions, the audiences oohs and ah’s and other such things. While also not being “swayed” by main stream B.S.
I’m anxiously awaiting a just verdict. (At least 2 years in Prison). And I am concerned that the 2nd Degree Murder vs Manslaughter by reckless abandon is terribly vexing.
Time will tell.
Another fact we know:
5. Tracy Martin should not have left his 17 year old juvenile delinquent-suspended-from-school son alone with a 12 year old. Tracy went out the entire night with his girlfriend and didn’t notice Trayvon was missing until the next day, right?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article41224.html
@Ralph Adamo.
The only facts of which we can be sure are:-
1/ Travon Martin should not have ended up dead;
2/ Travon Martin was not a criminal, he was going about his lawful business;
3/ There was an altercation between Martin and Zimmerman;
4/ Travon Martin ended up dead.
The critical fact which we cannot know is who started the altercation. If Zimmerman started it then he is guilty of manslaughter at least and possibly murder 2, but Zimmerman says that Travon Martin started it (he would wouldn’t he, he is not going to truth himself into 35 years?) and TM cannot contradict this so if the jurors consider that there is a reasonable probability that TM started the fight then they have to acquit. However there may be evidence in the things that Zimmerman said to Sanford Police or in the forensic evidence that falsify his claims.
The one piece of evidence that suggests but does not prove that Zimmerman started the fight is that given by Rachael Jeantel about what she heard on the phone:-
Travon Why are you following me?
Zimmerman What are you doing here?
Travon Get Off
Phone Sound of phone disconnecting.
If Travon Martin started the fight, would he have impolitely cut the connection with Rachael, in my view the cut connection suggests that he was surprised.
Even if Travon started the fight, may he not have done so having a reasonable suspicion that the CAC following him was a threat to his life.
The one thing I do find still interesting about the case, though? Is what effect it will have on Florida’s (and other states) SYG laws. But that won’t unfold until after the trial.
And if anyone wants to see the statues, they are here.
Malisha,
I think we’re reading those articles a bit differently, but I still think saying they were “pro-Zimmerman” is a stretch. More along the lines of “what’s the available evidence to the charges. But okay.
__________
bk,
Ahhhh. Thanks. Last time I looked at the case in depth, charges were TBD. In that case, he’s still overcharged tactically as the Florida statute for murder 2 requires depraved indifference (or a list of ancillary actions none of which really apply). While not impossible to prove, it is considerably more difficult to prove than going with manslaughter (murder 3) without the requirement. Maybe not technically overcharged – especially given Z’s ignoring the police telling him not to follow – but the murder 2 is no slam dunk either whereas the case for manslaughter is pretty clear cut.
As I said before, once he was arrested and investigated, I quickly lost interest in the case. Not because I don’t care a teenager was shot for daring to go on a Skittles run, but because it became another murder case like all the other murder cases we see once the manifest injustice of cutting Z loose under circumstances that would have resulted in anyone else whose father wasn’t a magistrate getting arrested.
Grant, you say that the prosecution is now “proving” its case successfully by clearly showing Zimmerman “to have repeatedly lied and not have sustained serious injury at all – not even remotely serious.” You add, “As the medical examiner testified, his injuries were insignificant, and could have been easily sustained with one or two punches maximum – possibly even self-inflicted.”
A quick scan of the Leftist media sites establishes that you’re incorrect. The Leftist media would LOVE to nail Zimmerman to the cross, and were behind the racial slant and bias in this case from the beginning. And besides the usual Leftist spin and bias, several of them took it a step further by fabricating “evidence.” The Leftist media won’t be happy until Zimmerman is nailed to the cross or there are major race riots in the event Zimmerman is acquitted.
So, if you were correct, the Leftist media would be doing handstands and cartwheels in celebration. But the media has become silent on the “pluses” of the prosecution, and that tells me with 100% certainty that the media has nothing to report that helps the prosecution to any material extent.
And the only thing the Leftists here on this blog can say in favor of their “case” against Zimmerman is that Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, even though Zimmerman was purportedly advised not to follow Martin. The inference that the Leftists want you to draw is that Zimmerman followed Martin with the intent of shooting him. But no such inference can be drawn. If that inference was, in fact, the truth, then Zimmerman would have shot Martin without having any physical contact with him. But Zimmerman DID have physical contact with Martin. So the inference of the Leftists is a red herring.
Gene, The charge is murder 2, not murder 1. The prosecution has not tried to prove murder 1 b/c it isn’t the charge. Murder 1 would have required a grand jury indictment and the politics wouldn’t have waited and it would have been harder to prove (I’m not convinced that it couldn’t be proved but let’s not go there). I’m satisfied with the prospect of 35 to life.
Gene, check out the very first thread after the pictures of Z’s head appeared on ABC. Check out the thread that claimed Z had “passed a lie detector test.” Check out the indignant thread where Corey was accused of over-charging.
I disagree very seriously with the idea that Corey overcharged. FDLE had evidence enough to go for first degree because Z volunteered that he got out his gun, AIMED and carefully avoided shooting his LEFT HAND before pumping a hollowpoint into Trayvon Martin’s heart.
The prosecution is protecting the SPD. That’s why they don’t chase every rat down a hole. If they really laid it out on the line how much evidence they had to start with, SPD could NOT escape some kind of negative consequences from the feds, where the investigation is still open.
Strangely, the federal investigation is very resistant to getting information about the SPD’s conduct before, during and after the killing of Trayvon Martin. The whole initial myth of a “high crime community” with “seven burglaries, eight thefts and one other shooting in the year before” Trayvon Martin was killed was wrong, but was information given to Frances Robles of the Miami Herald on March 15, 2012 BY THE SPD. When I FOIA’d the real information, it turned out that statistically the area was a low-crime neighborhood with THREE burglaries, FIVE thefts and NO OTHER SHOOTINGS in that year. The killing of Trayvon Martin catapulted the area statistically into “high crime” from “low crime” in 12 minutes.
The prosecution will convict; they are not trying NOT TO. If they were trying NOT TO they would have avoided entering into evidence the fact that Z was training at an MMA gym three times a week for 3 hours/day for 16 months before his hunting trip to find a “real suspicious guy” to chase down. The evidence is overwhelming and the prosecution is only using about a third of it; but Corey did not overcharge. She under-charged. Z had time to think about what to do while he made sure not to shoot his left hand.
Martin Grossman — who was executed by the State of Florida for Murder-1 — had MUCH LESS TIME to think about shooting HIS victim than Z had to think about shooting HIS. Just a little irrelevant example. My point: Murder-2 is at LEAST what Z did. I will be satisfied if he goes down for manslaughter because basically his incarceration will be the same either way (enhancement for killing a juvenile). But it is really a shame that the SPD will not take its lumps; so many corrupt agencies have so much protection that there really is no way around that kind of thing.
You guys are doing it all wrong. Assumptions are being made that sound logical, but from what I have read here (I admit I have not had time to read all the comments), no one has actually looked up any research on how jurors think. I first met Dr. Nancy Pennington more than thirty years ago. She has done some of the most seminal research in the area of jury attribution. One of her most famous quotes regarding jurors:
The point is, there is a big difference between the way jurors process the information, and the way outsiders think they do. What we as outsiders (and that includes reporters in the courtroom) hear and what the jurors hear as a collective organism is often quite different.
You can Google Nancy Pennington and Reid Hastie for more on jury attribution.
Would Gene H please cite the Florida statute which says motive is a “requisite motive component of murder one..”
And what is Gene H’s qualification to comment on the quality of the “lawyering” in this case.?
Gene H should “loose” his desire to give opinions as though they are facts.
Malisha,
1) Pro-Zimmerman bias? Are you sure you’re reading the same blog as the rest of us? His initial avoidance of arrest, the suspect nature of his story of the events and the suspect nature of some of the evidence (particularly of Z’s alleged defensive injuries) has figured prominently in the coverage here as have criticisms of some of the media coverage of Martin for being irrelevant to the case at bar but trying to portray him in a negative light. I don’t recall any bias toward Zimmerman from either JT or even the GBs although I do recall a fair amount of pro-Z trolling early one from commenters. If you have some examples, I’d love to see them.
2) As a tactical matter, Corey did overcharge. There simply has never been enough evidence to solidly prove the requisite motive component of murder one. As mespo noted, the lawyering in this case has been mediocre (at best) and AY noted manslaughter based on the evidence was pretty much a prosecutorial slam dunk and theirs to lose. While overcharging is a questionable tactic to force plea deals, it doesn’t always work to the prosecution’s advantage – especially in high profile cases. This case has been the prosecution’s to loose since Z was arrested. They’re doing a pretty good job of doing just that.
@Carterbo.
Agreed, forgot Lottakatz.
Hey guys: Check it out!
http://www.zazzle.com.au/i_scream_ice_cream_greeting_card-137941382306181273
People get ready, there’s conviction coming.
Don’t need no ticket, you just get on board.
(Or in the case of cross-examination by West,
you will have to be satisfied with getting on bored.)
Knock Knock.
Who’s there?
Corey Overcharged.
Corey Overcharged who?
Not Zimmerman.
What Carlyle Moulton said. But I’d include lottakatz for the trifecta.
GZ may have thought that by killing a young black man, he would thereby
earn his bones as being good police officer material.