The California state assembly has passed a new law that will be prohibit the selling or displaying items with an image of the Confederate flag. We have previously discussed the disciplining of students and others over the display of this flag as protected speech. In the same way, this bill raises serious constitutional questions and could trigger a court fight.
Assemblyman Isadore Hall, D-Compton secured a 72-1 vote in favor of the new law. It would not prohibit the display in educational or museum settings. However, it would prevent people from displaying the flag on state property which would presumably include parks. Hall said that he took the action after his mother saw replica Confederate money being sold at the state Capitol gift shop.
The amended bill is quite vague on key terms. It states:
SECTION 1. Section 53.5 is added to the Civil Code, to read:
53.5. (a) The State of California may not sell or display the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, also referred to as the Stars and Bars, or any similar image, or tangible personal property inscribed with such an image unless the image appears in a book that serves an educational or historical purpose.
(b) For purposes of this section, “sell” means to transfer title or possession, exchange, or barter, conditional or otherwise, in any manner or by any means whatsoever, for consideration. “Transfer possession” includes only transactions that would be found by the State Board of Equalization, for purposes of the Sales and Use Tax Law, to be in lieu of a transfer of title, exchange, or barter.
This removes problematic language in the original version but leaves a lot of questions. Here is the original language:
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:
SECTION 1. Section 53.5 is added to the Civil Code, to read:
53.5. (a) A person The State of California may not sell a Confederate flag or display the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, also referred to as the Stars and Bars, or any similar image, or tangible personal property inscribed with the such an image of a Confederate flag on property owned or operated by the state unless the image appears in a book that serves an educational or historical purpose.
(b) For purposes of this section, all of the following apply:
(1)“Person” means any individual, partnership, firm, joint stock company, corporation, limited liability company, association, trust, estate, or other legal entity.
(2)“Sell” section, “sell” means to transfer title or possession, exchange, or barter, conditional or otherwise, in any manner or by any means whatsoever, for consideration. “Transfer possession” includes only transactions that would be found by the State Board of Equalization, for purposes of the Sales and Use Tax Law, to be in lieu of a transfer of title, exchange, or barter.
Hall insisted that the flag is a symbol of racism that should not be allowed to be displayed. The Southern flag is clearly insulting to many people due to its historical associations. However, it is also a simple of Southern heritage and sacrifice. Robert E. Lee himself identified with the flag while rejoicing in the end of slavery. He stated:
In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.
So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.
Respected scholars like Civil War historian Shelby Foote have noted that the flag traditionally represented the South’s resistance to Northern political dominance. As discussing in PBS interview, he was sensitive to how many of his friends viewed it as a symbol of racism but he did not share that view. Others view it as a symbol of state’s rights or Southern culture or opposition to speech codes or politically correct sentiments. The point is that, if some flags are allowed, there are a variety of symbols that are viewed as offensive by different groups.
So the question is what happens when people want to display this symbol while others are displaying other flags viewed negatively by other groups from Free Tibet to the PLO to Israel to China. It sounds a lot like content-based censorship.
The bill was amended to exclude non-government employees and businesses from the ban to address some of these concerns. It would also not ban the display for educational or historical reasons in textbooks. To the extent that it only affects government speech, the state is on stronger ground to be sure, but I am still unclear on the wide array of displays organized by the government with citizens or groups. Even with the wise exclusions, there would appear a myriad of circumstances where state employees would be presented with a conflict in barring the display not just on a flag but in other forms containing this symbol. Those specific conflicts could present an interesting challenge to the new law.
Source: CBS
Let’s not forget that before there was a Confederate flag, the American flag flew over the slave markets located in the evil north. It wasn’t until after the Confederate flag was being used that the slave merchants and slave owners of the north decided they were fighting the war over slavery, and not so much to keep the imperial union together.
And, it was under the American flag that the war criminal Lincoln made his Emancipation Proclamation, which freed slaves in an area outside his political control while not freeing the slaves in the northern states.
Let’s not forget that it was under the American flag that evil northerners committed genocide on Native Americans to capture land for the evil northern capitalist cronies of evil northern politicians. It has been under the American flag that Japanese-Americans were put into concentration camps. It was under this flag that all manner of racism existed, in the evil north as well as the south.
It should be obvious that the U.S. flag should be banned as it should be offensive to everyone who finds the Confederate flag so offensive. Slavery was an evil that was eradicated in the western world without massive death and destruction everywhere except in the land flying that American flag. Those evil northerners can claim the southerners were demons that had to be murdered in order to end slavery, but perhaps it was the desire to shed the blood of others held in the dark hearts of the former slave merchants in the north and the secret desire of their war criminal cult leader Lincoln to enslave the entire population of the south, black and white!
Now this is a fair portrayal of all northerners, right?
Tom and Frank – I made that exact point on another thread where they were denigrating the Confederate flag. You are going to take heavy flak, so get your helmets on.
Two points. First, in the 72-1 vote, the -1 is not likely to be re-elected (i.e., “Representative So-and-so voted FOR racism!!!”) Second, I am disappointed by the volume and intensity of the vitriolic attacks on anyone who opposes government censorship of “free speech” and/or who sees the confederate flag as anything other than sour grapes for having lost the war. When I’m elected to public office, the very first thing I’m going to make illegal is offensive bloggers, because as many (e.g., Justice Holmes) know, the proper role of government is to stop offensive speech.
Steve – I sure hope that is sarcasm. 😉
Annie – Veronica has yet to answer about the Orangemen Day parades and how that incites hatred. Her former country is responsible for all of that.
Outside of the fact that this is unconstitutional- when that flag is displayed, I know where the enemy lies.
elrond – I feel the same way about those Che Guevara t-shirts.
So right Veronica.
We made Germany ban the swastika and all Nazi emblems after WWII and Germany has benefited enormously from that all too sane action. Presidents Johnson and Grant’s biggest mistake was not banning all symbols of the Confederacy around which American racists have rallied ever since. And not just racists: the states rights movement is and always has been a call to disunity and disbanding the union, which I believe in legal parlance is called sedition.
The Roberts Court will overturn this, just as they overturn anything that challenges the right’s race to the bottom as they seek to turn what was once a democracy into a blindered and straightjacketed oligarchy.
Mark – as I have said before, it was Northern states who first wanted to secede. And frankly, if you read the Constitution, states do have rights. We are not like England where the central government runs everything, the states have certain rights and responsibilities, which includes, in my state, supplying a militia when needed,
Justice Holmes:”Shelby Foote is wrong.”
No, he’s not. The problem here is that you are completely overlooking the fact that this is, in fact, a freedom of speech/expression question. The first amendment was created exactly for situations like this. YOU may think of the Confederate flag in those terms that you wrote, but many people do NOT and the first was written for THEM, the minority with the unpopular opinion. The majority opinion doesn’t need protection.
Pray for Uncle Clarence.
This is the flag our Supreme Court Justice had on his office wall when he was a lawyer.
Free country even for Uncle Clarence.
No one should be punished for contracting a mental impairment through the stress or other intimidating forces of modern life.
Informed treatment is the preferred way to handle it.
Even Bill Mayer, an atheist, thinks that other forms of treatment, besides medical, are called for:
Dredd – Auntie Sotomayer can put any flag she wants on her desk. It is, or at least used to be, a free country.
Veronica that’s not what it stands for. It was a part of the past not hatered and evil.
I wonder whether Mississippi, whose state flag would seem to fall under this law because it includes the Confederate Battle Flag as part of the state flag, will retaliate and ban Mississippi’s sell or display of the California flag.
Both the California flag and the Texas flag hark back to when they were republics. Should we ban them?
The author (Turley): “Others view it as a symbol of state’s rights or Southern culture or opposition to speech codes or politically correct sentiments”
It is a symbol of “StatesRights!”. You have to capitalize the S and the R, run the words together and add the exclamation point. Bigots and racists employ the terms like the holy grail. Whatever that is. That term is and was employed by the Klan when the federal government came into a place like North Carolina and tried to stop lynchings. On examination of the Constitution, there are State Powers outlined and the word Rights is applicable to people. States do not have Rights spelled out. In the context of a lynching in North Carolina where the head Klan guy with the hood on has his Sheriff badge on under or outside his Klan robe, the objection to federal interference is that unlawful, criminal, terrorist acts must be expressed. So, you damn Yankees don’t come in here and stop us or arrest us for lynching the guy who was not “Uncle” enough and who would not step aside on the sidewalk. Or the out of down black guy who let the sun go down on him in the town of Tick Bite.
Sometime Jonathan we should have an article dedicated to StatesRights! and Heritage.
Back in Tick Bite, where I lived for awhile, there were some guys around town with Confederate Flags displayed on the sides of their mobile homes or pickup truck rear windows or tee shirts. “It’s about my Heritage”, they will say. When you yak for awhile and inquire as to who they vote for most all will say this one: “My daddy didn’t vote and I don’t vote.” Of course the RepubliCon Party needs their votes now because African Americans will vote in high percentage and the RepubliCon Party needs the Heritage vote or Klan vote. When asked about Heritage some will say that they hail from the western part of NC and that great great grandpa did not serve in the Civil War for the South and some might have served for the North. Nevertheless, today’s rednecks will disavow such aspects of their Heritage. The reason for this aspect of Heritage in NC was that in the middle part and more so in the western part of the state there were few slaves and no sentiments to go fight for slavery. That is why West Virginia seceded from Virginian and became a Northern state in the Civil War. Yet, today the Confederate Flags are prevalent out there in western NC or West Virginia because there are rednecks who don’t like blacks.
Veronica, Thanks for your perspective. But, the UK is controlling speech @ an alarming rate. How ’bout giving them a lecture.
Nick – in the UK you cannot speak ill of the royal family and celebrities have their identities hidden in court cases. CPS cases are heard by secret courts and you are forbidden from talking to the press about it, even and especially after the verdict.
I am English, but for me just the sight of this flag makes me get really angry and want to throw up. It represents evil and hatred, just like Nazi symbols, and everyone knows that. All you people who profess loyalty and fondness for this symbol are telling the rest of the population what you stand for, so do not be surprised when some try to stop you ! Should it be banned ? maybe not, but please do not bring it anywhere near me ! Actually I feel, as an immigrant that you Americans should be trying MUCH harder to get your country in order – this past 8 years (Obama’s presidency – wonder why?) have seen the country going totally backwards on race relations and equal fairness in general – these trends are looked at with a lot of disgust by those of us who recently came here. This is a big beautiful country with lots of wonderful history and loads of opportunity and space for future development, but the level of ‘us v them’ is getting very primitive and I fear where this is all going.
Respect for all your people and a real effort to mingle together and support each other is what you should be doing – therein lies your future and the world’s future for that matter. I do the best I can in my own little life.
Paul, BLASHEMER!!!
Veronica – how do you feel about Orangemen’s Day in Northern Ireland? For it or against it?
I have often contended that we need a Constitutional amendment at both state and federal levels that would require lawmakers to remove two laws for every one the create. This goes for new regulations as well.
California is a failed Liberal/Marxist state. It was not just about slavery, but Centralization which Robert E. Lee warned would lead to a nation that was aggressive abroad and despotic at home. The Confederate States can hardly be blamed for the failures of California.
Californians deserve what they elected. The rest of us should not have to pay to pick up the pieces.
This is one of those shining baubles to keep the citizens’ minds off the fact that they kicked the debt down the road and it is going to come back to bite them hard.
America has to many laws this needs to change. It’s just a flag and it my right to have one and not break the law.
That’s dumb