A Philadelphia Fire Department paramedic is under fire for posting this picture with the caption: “Our real enemy.” The caption also said “Need 2 stop pointing guns at each other & at the ones that’s legally killing innocents.” Marcell Salters has also published highly antagonistic language toward police officers. He has since apologized but some have called for his punishment or termination. In the meantime, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is under attack after Ismaaiyl Brinsley effectively executed two police officers over his anger with the recent decisions by grand juries in Missouri and New York. police have been protesting what they view as de Blasio’s unfair portrayals of police after the decision, including turning their backs on the mayor when he came to give a press conference on the murders.
Salters
Marcell Salters has been denounced for his attack on officers who often protect paramedics at accident and crime scenes. In now deleted comments, Salters said that he “never did or will like police” and “[b]ecause of what i do i have to work with them but dont have to like them . . . There are numerous crooked & corrupted cops (mostly white) & mostly they harass, beat, or kill innocents (mostly blks).”
He has since apologized and posted the following: “I would like to deeply apologize to anyone i have offended. That post was out of anger of what is going on around the world (mike brown, eric garner & etc) & past experiences that i have had with the police. . . My intentions was not to slander or hurt anyone or my brothers in blue. Again i am sorry.”
I have previously written about concerns that public employees are increasingly being disciplined for actions in their private lives or views or associations outside of work. We have previously seen teachers (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here), here, here, students (here and here) and other public employees (here and here and here) fired for their private speech or conduct, including school employees fired for posing in magazines (here), appearing on television shows in bikinis (here), or having a career in the adult entertainment industry (here).
One different wrinkle is that Joseph Schulle, head of the firefighters’ union Local 22, said that Salters could be disciplined because he allegedly made a comment about the post while on duty. That creates a different context than many of the prior cases above where comments or postings were made entirely during off-hours or outside of public jobs. It is not clear what the comment was that is being isolated as a possible basis for discipline however.
I tend to view these cases from a first amendment perspective. I find Salters’ comments to be highly offensive and wrong. However, I do believe that he has a right to say them just as others have a right to denounced them. While such comments obviously make for tense working conditions, some of us believe that free speech requires bright-line rules of protection even for hateful speech like that of Marcell Salters.
The uproar of police in Philadelphia has joined an equal if not greater outcry of officers in New York.
Ismaaiyl Brinsley, 28, the killer of officers Wenjian Liu, 32, and Rafael Ramos, 40, had a history of violence and mental instability. He shot the officers as they sat in their patrol car in Brooklyn on Saturday before he ran to a subway station and shot himself. Only hours earlier, he shot and wounded his 29-year-old ex-girlfriend, Shaneka Thompson, at her home in Baltimore, Maryland. After shooting Thompson, Brinsley threatened on Instagram to kill police officers while referencing the New York and Missouri grand jury decisions: “They Take 1 of Ours… Let’s Take 2 of Theirs #ShootThePolice #RIPEricGarner #RIPMike Brown. This May Be My Final Post.”
Before the murders, Brinsley reportedly struck up a conversation with two men. According to the police, he asked the men “for their gang affiliation; he asked them to follow him on Instagram; and then he says: ‘Watch what I’m going to do.'” That is when he walked past the patrol car, circled it and then crossed the street to come up behind the car. That is when he fired four bullets through the front passenger window, killing the officers.
Police directed their anger in part at de Blasio who has been viewed as supporting the protests against police after the decision of the New York grand jury. The Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association even went as far as having officers to sign a petition calling for Mr de Blasio to be barred from attending their funerals if they were killed in the line of duty. There is also a growing racial rift over de Blasio’s policies. A poll last week found seventy percent of black people approved of the mayor’s performance while only 32 percent of white people supported him. Yet, he had received good polling numbers over his handling of protests following the decisions in New York and Missouri.
Aridog you took my sentence out of context, see the colon, it was part of a longer thought structure: ” that is what we are seeing here way too often, in my estimation. I don’t care about what those who disagree with me have to say. I just care about my point of view. Very sad.”
That is a different concept then taking the last part of the sentence and using it as the whole and this was my point. You wrote what I did not say, by taking it out of context
We are seeing sides here, people saying outright, hey facts don’t matter only what I say does, and not just on this post. Again, I find this very sad.
I am glad you got news re your scan.
Hope you have a good holiday. I may read what else is posted on this thread but I am going to grit my teeth if I have to and not respond.(:
Aridog,
Sigh, Merry Christmas anyway. So many assumptions, so many of them wrong. I think we ALL could hold up a mirror and see things we don’t like. My son is here, we’re off!
Inga…first, my scan results, which I have read in detail on the database my hospital provides, are positive. Yay me. Next when it comes to “personal things” said to others, I simply recommend you look in a mirror now and then. Some of your “drive by” shots are sad. You are wrong that “few people have actual goodness” …that is in your mind, not everyone’s…none of us come here or anywhere out of anger or spite. One of these days you will realize that. Your repetitive assertion that we “recruits” are the problem here is insulting. But I’ve said all that before. My Christmas is already fulfilled as I said on the “Bela” the dog thread. I really do “get” dogs and horses better than I do people. I’ve rescued only one dog in my entire life that disappointed me, but even that wasn’t the dog’s fault IMO…I suspect she was severely abused and was beyond recovery. I wish I could say the same for people.
And to be perfectly clear, a difference of opinion is not abusive, but the personal things someone says while expressing their difference of opinion can be and all too often in the last few months has been.
I’m off to my family’s Christmas celebration, but Aridog, to say I’d be happier if ‘this or that’ is actually insulting. You have no idea what my happiness quotient is, you dont know me personally. I think the way a few people here treated LeeJ, especially on a Holiday is simply shameful. There are few people who have true goodness and I think LeeJ is among those people and decent people don’t stand by and watch someone being abused. Merry Christmas Aridog, I hope you got good news from your scan.
leejcaroll said …
I don’t care about what those who disagree with me have to say. I just care about my point of view
Can you see how that is contradictory to what Po proposed? I’d say the same things to you I just said to Inga. See, I do care about what those who don’t agree with me say, if rational and not emotional, and occasionally I learn something, even change my mind. I resent, mildly however, being, even inadvertently, classified as part of a “side.” There are no sides, only opinions, and like ears, or other anatomical features usually cited, we all have them.
Inga said …
You’ve been ‘introduced’ to group of people who I refer to as “The Recruits”
Po said …
Let’s all just vow to be better at hearing, reading and talking in this new year, and especially, to give each other the benefit of the doubt in what we assume people mean when they say anything …. I doubt any of us comes here for the fight, we come for the communication and the learning we get by hearing others.
I can’t add anything to that. Truth is funny that way.
Inga, you will be far happier if you cease your obsession with the new comers who are not lock step in agreement with your views. Rather, be appreciative of the diversity here, which I believe Professor Turley encourages. His positions, based upon principle regardless of who he thinks might agree or disagree, are illustrative of how to do that. I’d say the same about rafflaw and Darren, both of whom do not always agree with me. I learn from them none the less. You can too.
Thanks Inga (Nick and others will say, see those )*(&% liberals, they stick together ((*_*)) ) (and notice when I apologized to Nick about something with which he took issue he didn’t acknowledge it just said he washes his hands of me. that is what we are seeing here way too often, in my estimation. I don’t care about what those who disagree with me have to say. I just care about my point of view. Very sad.
It didn’t seem quite as bad until maybe a few months back (I have been told that is not the case it has been this polarized for a long time but maybe I had blinders on just seems lately there is a contingent who will say, as DBQ did outright, and I am not going to look for the post, that when I pointed out it was not the pres who shut down the gov’t, as she had written, it was the repubs, ‘oh pish tosh what do facts matter?’
Po glad you’re here and you’re right. may cooler minds and thoughtfulness prevail (that is what I hear you saying in your last post ((*_*))
Happy holidays
And LeeJ, I’m relieved that you are seein what I’ve seen for over two years now. I knew I would happen sooner or later. Happy Holidays.
LeeJ, I’d bet to most, it’s evident what you were referring to. You’ve been ‘introduced’ to group of people who I refer to as “The Recruits”. I’m glad you still comment here LeeJ, you are a “good woman”, this I know first hand.
Sorry DBQ, there were a couple of such comments. I read them too…and even teased Nick about a bit. Just don’t have the time and energy to fish it out.
Let’s all just vow to be better at hearing, reading and talking in this new year, and especially, to give each other the benefit of the doubt in what we assume people mean when they say anything.
I doubt any of us comes here for the fight, we come for the communication and the learning we get by hearing others.
In this most blessed day, let’s take a breath and come back better.
Merry Christmas, blessed Hanukkah.
DBQ, I washed my hands a couple days ago. Getting a head start on the new year. It gets way too tedious w/ some. Merry Christmas, good woman.
“it’s easy to be liberal until you ride mass transit through the inner city every day.”
You must have reading comprehension issues. This statement you quoted does not say what you said no one else has had the experience of using the subways and living in the inner cities
If you want to take issue with Nick’s statement do so. Just don’t rephrase it to say something that he didn’t say.
DBQ wrote:quotinig me “and we have seen posters here say no one else has had the experience of using the subways and living in the inner cities
she then says: No one has said any such thing. You are hallucinating.”
Nick wrote: way upthread:I would LOVE if the police haters here gave us some background on the time they have spent in inner cities. As a former liberal attorney I know would say, “it’s easy to be liberal until you ride mass transit through the inner city every day.”
That is to what I was referring. It was said and I believe in more then one post.
This entire topic, including the photograph accompanying the post, makes me feel to vomit.
Golden Country….Oh yeah, said by those who have likely never shot at another human in anger, out of duty, or out of necessity otherwise. None of us were either in Ferguson or NYC to directly witness the incidents, but we all appear to know exactly what happened. You just cannot imagine how absurd that seems to me.
The issue is definitely about “criminal versus cop.” If not, pray tell how it happened that two officers were shot dead by a guy who plainly and openly stated it was revenge per se.
WEll said!
Trooper
Your frame work is skewed it isn’t a criminal vs a cop issue. Its about over aggressive policing. I have said for some time that the shoot first and cover up mantra held by Law Enforcement will be used against them and on them. We are now seeing this. It wont change until Law Enforcement changes it tactics against civilians.
Trooper, would you please judge me by what I say rather than putting words in my mouth?
Where have I cast my lot with criminals against the cops?
Which criminals?
All I am saying is that there are bad cops and those need to be held accountable. I am also saying that the system allows for cops to kill unarmed civilians and never answer for it.
Am I right or wrong about that?
If I am right, then say it. If I am wrong then address why I am wrong, factually, not by claiming that a whole group is composed of criminals, that makes little sense and is both morally and intellectually lazy.
DBQ, swim upstream a bit…read it too.