The New York Times has published a blistering editorial calling upon President Barack Obama to fulfill our obligations under domestic and international law and investigate and prosecute those responsible for the torture program under the administration of President George W. Bush. The American Civil Liberties Union is also calling for the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the program and possibly prosecute those responsible. The Obama Administration has steadfastly refused to prosecute anyone despite its admission that, to quote Obama, “we tortured some folks.” The political costs of such a prosecute were likely viewed as too high and Attorney General Eric Holder has again taken the politically expedient approach in avoiding any serious effort to hold those responsible for these crimes. In the meantime, many of those who would be prosecuted under domestic and international law have been writing books and giving interviews — casually discussing acts that are considered war crimes under international law.
The editorial, entitled “Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses,” takes the position long advocated by experts in the field and various academics, including myself. There is no question that we tortured people under this program. While there are plenty of torture deniers about, both U.S. and international law is clear. Waterboarding is torture and we have prosecuted both our own citizens and foreigners for this long recognized form of torture despite early denials from people like Ashcroft. Moreover, Obama has admitted that it was torture. Holder admitted it was torture. The United Nations has denounced it as a torture. Leading Republicans and Democratic leaders have denounced it as torture. The United States Senate denounced it as torture. However, not a single person has been prosecuted by the Obama Administration. Instead, the Administration has been threatening allies who have threatened to start their own torture investigation under international treaties.
I have previously written about the cynical calculation that led to Obama blocking the prosecution for those responsible for the torture program. He knew such prosecutions would be unpopular, and with so many constitutional principles since that time, he just did not see the value in adhering to principle (even those embodied within binding treaty obligations). Since Obama ran on a civil liberties platform, many expected an independent torture investigation as soon as he took office. After all, waterboarding is one of the oldest forms of torture, pre-dating the Spanish Inquisition (when it was called tortura del agua). It has long been defined as torture by both U.S. and international law, and by Obama himself. Torture, in turn, has long been defined as a war crime, and the United States is under treaty obligation to investigate and prosecute such crimes.
However, such a principle did not make for good politics. Accordingly, as soon as he was elected, Obama set out to dampen talk of prosecution. Various intelligence officials and politicians went public with accounts of the Obama administration making promises to protect Bush officials and CIA employees from prosecution. Though the White House denied the stories, Obama later gave his controversial speech at the CIA headquarters and did precisely that. In the speech, he effectively embraced the defense of befehl ist befehl (“an order is an order”). As I have written before (here and here), the Obama Administration has destroyed some of the core Nuremburg principles, particularly in its revisal of the “superior orders defense” to excuse U.S. officials.
The board notes that such an investigation would clearly include “former Vice President Dick Cheney; Mr. Cheney’s chief of staff, David Addington; the former C.I.A. director George Tenet; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, the Office of Legal Counsel lawyers who drafted what became known as the torture memos,” the editorial reads. “There are many more names that could be considered, including Jose Rodriguez Jr., the C.I.A. official who ordered the destruction of the videotapes; the psychologists who devised the torture regimen; and the C.I.A. employees who carried out that regimen.”
The New York Times asks whether the Obama Administration has “the political courage” to order an investigation. That question unfortunately has been loudly and repeatedly answered in the negative.
p.s. upon waterboarding and other eit’s, soufan says no further actionable intelligence was obtained via these methods.
mark wrote: “… upon waterboarding and other eit’s, soufan says no further actionable intelligence was obtained via these methods.”
It sounds like you and soufan need to read Richard Miniter’s, “Mastermind: The Many Faces of the 9/11 Architect, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.” We learned about KSM through waterboarding Zubayda, and from KSM, we thwarted plots to blow up the Empire State Building, the Seattle Space Needle, the Panama Canal and World Cup soccer stadiums. Based on interrogating KSM, intelligence agents were able to disrupt terror cells and make arrests on three continents – including in the United States itself. We learned that he used two dozen aliases and gained a lot of information about how Al Qaeda was organized.
Now none of this justifies enhanced interrogation, but please do not insult our intelligence by falsely claiming that those subjected to waterboarding never talked.
Do any of you find it strange that the Senate spent 40 million dollars on this report, but never even talked to the CIA officials involved? What kind of phoney report is this? Who are the real criminals here?
When is FDR’s trial for his WW2 concentration camps?
Or Kennedy for invading Cuba and trying to assassinate Castro?
Or Carter?
Chomsky says he committed war crimes, too:
“Carter was the least violent of American presidents but he did things which I think would certainly fall under Nuremberg provisions. As the Indonesian atrocities increased to a level of really near-genocide, the U.S. aid under Carter increased. It reached a peak in 1978 as the atrocities peaked.”
These cries of ‘war crimes’ are just typical communist claptrap.
When cold water is applied to the face unexpectedly, humans reflexively take a deep breath. Pouring the water onto the face causes the detainee to suck in water, filling the mouth and upper airway. this causes a reflex to forcefully expel air from the lungs to clear the airway, which then requires a forceful deep inhalation of air into said lungs….except that there is more water being poured onto the face. oxygen deprivation for mere seconds causes panic. if you don’t believe its torture, perhaps watching this video of waterboarding supporter and radio shock jock “mad cow mullens” will help…then again, probably not in which case i volunteer to water board any doubters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLSCkxcnpA
note mullen didn’t have his extremities strapped down, along with chest and abdominal binders, plus he knew it was gonna end and had a “no joy” signal.
remember too, that the cia was told ahead of time what the results of the torture should reveal, namely a connection between saddam hussein and al queda, by cheney/bush regime who wanted political cover for invading iraq for the benefit of big oil (the iraqi oil fields were divided up between competing oil comp factions with the then president elect cheney…hmmm…bush before he even took office).
please read a fantastic book by former fbi agent ali soufan, “The Black Banners.”
he was removed from interrogating suspects from whom he elicited “actionable intelligence” and replaced by the sadistic cia contractor psychologists who implemented the EIT’s…….hmmmm, lets call it what it is…..TORTURE. at least those contractor psychologist made out ok….they were paid 80 million dollars!
this is not the country it once was…this is not what i want my country to be known for.
With NY City revisiting 1970, Obamacare crumbling, race riots, wscalating Islamic wars in the Middle East, a stagnant economy, and the President ignoring the Constitution, it is up to the NYTimes to throw chum in the water to rev up the demoralized Democrat base.
Boooosh!
What a waste of time.
Torture… What exactly is it? How does anyone posting here know for sure what was done to whom and in what context? Our national leaders (both elected and non-elected) have some tough choices to make and it’s easy to sit back a sling mud from the cheap seats.
I consider being exposed to songs on my daughter’s iPod an extreme form of torture, but realize that many may not. In fact some, may like her choices in music.
As a former service member, I can speak from experience… it’s a tossup between water-boarding and 30-minutes with that iPod!
USN420 – play classical music in revenge. The average teenager is repelled by classical music. There are some exception, but if the iPod is bothering you, your teenager falls into the average group. You can also crank it up to 11. That really seems to bother them.
It’s way past time for investigation. Time to turn to actual prosecutions. And, no, the context of post-9-11 fear is not a justification to avoid prosecutions. Further, if the Great USA does not prosecute now, when will it ever prosecute?
Aside from the (limited) Watergate prosecutions, the country has developed a very bad habit of not prosecuting for war crimes and other High Crimes – Vietnam atrocities, Iran-Contra (too many pardons), Wall Street, the present CIA tortures, the illegal NSA surveillance activities, among others.
I have to suspect the NYTimes chose to ask for prosecution now of all times because Obama’s presidency is a complete basket case and getting worse every day.
They’re just changing the subject to avoid looking at the already-rotting carcass.
There always is a reckoning in these matters; governments are still prosecuting WW2 war criminals.
Not the governments those people worked for.
Or are you expecting al Qaeda to defeat the US militarily, and hold war-crimes trials?
Even John Yoo conceded that some of the methods employed by the CIA were not authorized by his “torture memorandum” and therefore are subject to prosecution. There always is a reckoning in these matters; governments are still prosecuting WW2 war criminals. Trust me, justice cometh and right soon…
We do have laws against torture.
Well, by god let’s start enforcing them.
How about we send in the 101st JAG Division to litigate the hell out of ISIL? They’re violating the Geneva Conventions worse than Cheney.
Altho I’m surprised they haven’t stopped beheading people already, seeing as how the rest of the world has such a low opinion of that sort of behavior .
Whether foreign or American until a “suspect” is confronted with the evidence and testimony against him or her (and the accusers risk perjury) – they are still suspects (which means doubt).
That is the real danger here, there is not a fair and precise judicial process before we destroy a foreigner or an American on U.S. soil. If we drone someone that is usually a guess, not 100% certainty.
For example: a future Oklahoma City attack could very well destroy the livelihoods or even kill innocent NRA members, Tea Party members or members of the same church or some other profiling match.
When we embrace an unAmerican “guilt by association” justice system – if one nut carries out an attack, the entire group is guilty and can be punished without charge, judge jury or even an attorney.
“…inevitably the growing chorus of domestic and international calls for a prosecution”
Hilarious.
Meanwhile, Islam continues to do far worse without any chorus of domestic and international calls for a prosecution, nor any fear that will ever happen.
Aridog is right.
Resolve to eliminate the procedure and never do it again, despite the consequences, and force Cheney and friends offstage.
But go ahead and prosecute, and open the same demand for Clinton and Obama to fall under the same prosecution.
We do have laws against torture. It’s just that we decided that we could skirt those laws by employing a euphemism. But calling torture an “enhanced interrogation technique” is no different from calling rape an “enhanced seduction technique.” We use word games for the sole purpose of avoiding unpleasant truths and that method of self-deception is on ample display on this thread.
Mike Appleton wrote: “But calling torture an “enhanced interrogation technique” is no different from calling rape an “enhanced seduction technique.””
That is ridiculous. Apples and oranges. There have been 10,000 of our own servicemen waterboarded over the last four decades with no harmful effects upon them. You can’t say the same thing about rape.
Mike – interesting argument you almost make. The problem is that water boarding as used does not constitute torture according to a specialist in the area. Obama can declare and has declared whatever he wants. Besides, your analogy is all wrong.
At least we would have been rid of more right wingers
Yeah, that’s the solution. Why didn’t I think of that?
Ross said …
Cheney and friends only understand brute force.
Cheney and his friends have no idea, what-so-ever, what real brute force is…he’s an institutionalized bureaucrat who presumes to know from afar. Let him just go home…send him home…stop giving him air time…any f’ing thing, just be done with him. You have no idea how tired I am of just seeing him on screen…I change the channel or station immediately.
I could care less if he is prosecuted. I’d prefer not. Prosecute him and the can of worms will spill over to the present administration and many in the past. Take away his pulpit and he is done.
I have to say I almost agree with Aridog. The problem with Cheney though is that he is so outspoken about his guilt and his crimes. That alone makes him the most legitimate target and worth putting on trial. If he just faded away, I would agree completely, but the fact is that he is unrepentant and insists that he did right. That alone makes him worth the time, trouble, and necessity of prosecuting him. Not only that, but he is simply a sadistic crook who thinks torturing innocent people is OK. Unfortunately, we cannot allow such people to exist without punishment if we wish to have any civil society.
Aridog – they have to retire Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter before they can even think to retire Cheney from TV.
Since there is no statute of limitations for war crimes, it will be a matter of time before a President far enough removed from this time and with clean hands who will heed inevitably the growing chorus of domestic and international calls for a prosecution. Mark my words: it may take 10 years time, but there will be a reckoning one day.
Jeff Silberman – the theologian Rheinhold Neibuhr said that governments can be amoral or immoral, but never moral. The day will never come that a President will make the mistake of charging his predecessor with crimes.
When he/she leaves office each is hoping their successor will not charge them.
Inga,
How about lying sadist sociopaths?
Nick, you do know how to use Google to look stuff up for yourself, right?
Waterboarding is specifically for being able to drown someone repeatedly without the added risk of killing them before the torturing is over by getting water in their lungs.
Rectal / anal feeding is a euphemism for hanging someone upside down and filling their bowels and entrails with bursting and agonizing water. It too is one of the ancient forms of torture and may be the true form of “Chinese water torture.” Now “anal feeding” is bought and paid for as “American water torture.”
Why exactly should the U.S. not clean its own house and gain self-respect and some renewed dignity before the world? We must. We must prosecute Cheney to the level of the highest penalty and reaffirm our ethical position against war crimes.
War crimes are specifically war crimes because even war, or following orders, does not justify or excuse them.
Force Cheney prove his innocence and just behaviour before an international criminal court. He can’t. An this is the point of things.
James – rectal rehydration is used to keep the prisoner alive. Unless you have worked in the penal system, I would suggest you keep out of that argument, since you would not have enough personal background to understand the dynamics involved.
The irony is many of the supporters of torture and a lawless executive branch have the most to fear from these policies.
Praying we never have another Oklahoma City tragedy but if we do – it won’t be foreigners being tortured and locked away without charge, trial or attorney – it will be Americans (mostly Republicans). Best case scenario is the government blacklisting – the homeland folks will just destroy your livelihood and that of your loved ones.
There really are no protections for any of us when the entire globe is considered a battlefield and our Bill of Rights are optional. This is not an exaggeration this is the government we currently have.
Ross, that is an excellent point After the OK city bombing, if Cheney had been in charge, he would have arrested McVeigh’s sister and father and subjected them to enhanced interrogation to find out who the other conspirators were. Such an atrocity demands a glove off approach. Of course,it was that coddler of crooks Clinton who was in charge and he made the FBI follow the law. Too bad! We could have had a lot more executions to go along with McVeigh. At least we would have been rid of more right wingers.
randyjet – when you talk about the law-abiding Clinton (who lost his law license for committing perjury) think Waco and the dead children. OKC was payback for Waco. Cannot have McVeigh without having Reno and Clinton.
Ross – Obama tortures me every time he even threatens to give a national speech. Can I call the UN and have his speeches stopped?
The New York Times is about ten years late in arriving at the party.
The FACT is many people by the CIA own admission were INNOCENT OF ANY CRIME. The FACT that Cheney had NO problem with torturing innocent persons DOES make him a sadistic criminal who needs to be prosecuted. This also means that the CIA spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars chasing bogus intel that such persons provided. IT also means that any person who supports the torturers supports arresting a likely suspect and torturing them until they “confess”. Such hopelessly corrupt and dishonest people are not worthy of being considered loyal Americans, and if they are employees or agents of the government they need to be fired and imprisoned. I cannot take such people seriously. It is like talking to a Nazi, a waste of time.