Bizarre, Criminal law

Florida Therapist Sits On Ground With Hands Up While Trying To Calm Unarmed Autistic Man . . . Police Shoot Therapist

shootingclipThere is a very disturbing videotape out today that left me stunned and frankly irate. While I have sometimes questioned the evidence of police abuse in some high-profile cases where there is a gun present or extenuating circumstances, I can see no such circumstances in the shooting of Charles Kinsey in North Miami. Kinsey is a dedicated caretaker at an assisted living facility who went outside to calm down a young autistic man. Neither was armed and, at the time of the shooting, Kinsey had his hands up as he tried to get the troubled young man to lay on his stomach. Police fired three rounds, hitting Kinsey.

Kinsey said that the autistic man simply had a toy truck in his hand that was mistaken as a gun. Someone called police to say that the man was threatening suicide. The man sat on the street playing with the white toy truck.

Kinsey is heard telling the young man “Lay down on your stomach,” but the autistic man responds “Shut up. Shut up, you idiot.” Kinsey remains professional and calm. He asks the police “Can I get up now? Can I get up?” He also tries to defuse the situation and tells the police that there is no threat: “All he has is a toy truck in his hand. A toy truck. I am a behavioral therapist at a group home. . . . That’s all it is [referring to the toy truck] That’s all it is. There is no need for guns.”

Police respond by shouting “Let me see your hands” and shouting at the autistic man to “Get on the ground. Get on the ground.”

As the autistic man makes noise, Kinsey says “Rinaldo, please be still. Sit down, Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach.”

Soon after the police fire three bullets and hit Kinsey near his right knee, exiting his upper thigh.

Police then put the injured Kinsey into handcuffs as well as the autistic man with the toy truck.

In this videotape, you hear a bystander in disbelief of why they shot the health care worker:

The responsible officer is on administrative leave pending an investigation. At a minimum, it would be helpful for the police to reveal the alleged justification for the shooting of Kinsey because none of this make any sense. Under Tennessee v. Garner, “deadly force…may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others.” Thus, the Supreme Court rejected the prior fleeing felon rule when the felon did not pose an immediate threat to society. Under Graham v. Connor, this is determined according to an “objective reasonableness” standard but a calculus that considers the split second decision-making in such circumstances. I see no such grounds in this videotape.

What do you think?

89 thoughts on “Florida Therapist Sits On Ground With Hands Up While Trying To Calm Unarmed Autistic Man . . . Police Shoot Therapist”

    1. issac – I spent a couple of years as a fact checker for history books. I had to check every fact in the book. Any deviation had to be noted and commented on.

  2. OCD Uptight Liberal Alert! ACHTUNG! AVISO!

    All posters should be aware that there is a possible danger from a poster who will argue that the sun is shining when it is dark outside! Approach with extreme caution, as you may get stuck in inane syntactical circular rhetoric. If this happens to you, please apply nail polish remover to your keyboard and free the stuck input device. Girl Reporter Enterprises is not responsible for any misuse of the nail polish remover and suggests that you consult your physician before application.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Wisdom might say you should consider looking inside to see why you must always put others down. You may think it natural but it is a character flaw.

  3. @TomWisdom

    Real wisdom means that you should have enough self-esteem to admit it when you are wrong about something. Sooo, quit trying to wiggle and just admit that you didn’t know it was a multiple camps complex. Sheeesh, Trust me, it won’t hurt. Nobody expects anybody to know everything. It’s no sin to be wrong.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  5. Taser This-
    Had the cell phone video(s) not surfaced, the “official report” may well have been written up differently.
    I’m glad Mr. Kinsey is still alive….reports are that he is expected to make a full recovery.
    He and his lawyers are in a very strong position. I don’t think the statements made by the police union chief, or the officer who shot Kinsey, are helpful.
    It’s bad enough that Kinsey got shot without these other guys adding to the carnage by shooting themselves in the foot.

  6. I had read a prior account of this, and thought it was the result of an accidental discharge. That account did not disclose or report that three shots were fired. An accidental discharge is bad enough. With these facts coming to light is incomprehensible.

    Besides this offer being accountable, we need to better understand what it is going through the head of an officer in a situation such as this, that is so clearly obvious to all but them.

  9. @SWM

    RE: “Autumn, So the LBGTQ, Latino, African American, Asian and feminist progressives are leaving the democratic party and voting for Trump. Hell will freeze over before we join up with the candidate of David Duke. Are not you talking about a handful of white men?”

    Nope, I am talking about the Bernieorbust movement. It’s not our fault the arrogant DNC threw Bernie under the bus. If you think it’s all white men check out Tim Black’s nightly radio show – people of all persuasions, races, walks of life call in and it is always informative and interesting. Also Let the Madness Begin videos by Will and Mike are brilliant. And another fav is the passionate and sweet Robert Brown:

  10. @Tom Wisdom

    Oh Hai!!! Just put a “@Squeeky” thing on your comments to show you are talking to me. Because I thought you were talking to randyjet!

    I wasn’t bitten by anything that I know of. I am just a naturally intense person.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  11. Bernie Sanders ‏@SenSanders 18h18 hours ago

    After centuries of racism, sexism and discrimination in our country, the last thing we need are candidates who promote bigotry.

  12. Autumn, So the LBGTQ, Latino, African American, Asian and feminist progressives are leaving the democratic party and voting for Trump. Hell will freeze over before we join up with the candidate of David Duke. Are not you talking about a handful of white men?

  13. PhillyT – we do not want a monarchy. That’s why we live in Amurika. There will be no coronation for Queen Hillary in November. Many Progressives are going Demexit after July 25 and will vote for Trump in swing states.

  14. @randyjet

    Yes, and I hear that sooo many black men are being killed by police that Cathartes aura (turkey vultures) are changing their migratory patterns just to feed on their corpses.

    Just doing my part to add to the hysteria!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  15. I am concerned that his fellow officers are STILL on the job. An innocent man is shot for NO rational reason other than he is black and a medical professional doing his job. Yet these vicious cops handcuff the VICTIM and let him BLEED OUT for TWENTY MINUTES! I guess they were hoping he would lose enough blood and DIE. Then they could plant a gun on him. ALL of those cops on scene need to be FIRED for dereliction of duty and false imprisonment. I guess that the local prosecutor will be charged by Prof Turley’s fellow law prof if they do that though. The idea that the cop was NOT shooting at the black guy is incredible and only shows the bias and lack of intellect that most folks here show us. They intentionally shot the black guy WHICH IS WHY THEY HANDCUFFED HIM!

    1. randyjet – there is no evidence he would have bleed out. You have been watch too many police procedurals. And I still think they were aiming at the kid and hit the therapist. However, it is standard procedure to handcuff suspects. And everybody is a suspect.

        1. InalienableWrights – Auschwitz is the work camp, They did not gas any Jews there. Bierkenau was the death camp built on the outskirts for that purpose.

          1. Schulte:
            “At least 1.1 million prisoners died at Auschwitz, around 90 percent of them Jewish; approximately 1 in 6 Jews killed in the Holocaust died at the camp.”

            1. Tom Wisdom – it is the difference between having a BA and an MA. With a BA you call everything Auschwitz. And a lot of prisoners died from starvation, overwork, exhaustion, etc. at Auschwitz. There were 20 some work camps at Auschwitz. However, it is not an extermination camp. Bierkinau was built just a little ways away to take care of that. Technically the two camps were separate. However, today some refer to the camp complex as Auschwitz-Bierkinau. This does solve the problem.

                1. Tom Wisdom – Phoenix does not include Scottsdale and Scottsdale does not include Phoenix. However, both are in the Valley of the Sun.

                  1. Puleez the two camps were less than a kilometer apart. Birkenau is cited as Auschwitz II in the literature. I didn’t know Scottsdale or Phoenix had concentration camps.

                    1. Tom Wisdom – there was a German prison of war camp between Scottsdale and Phoenix. Actually, Birkenau would have to be Auschwitz XXVII. There were that many camps at Auschwitz. Phoenix and Scottsdale are separated by sign.

                    3. Tom Wisdom – if you are naming the Auschwitz’s it would be in the high 20s. Still, I contend it is and always will be Birkenau. That is the historically accurate name and the name you will find if you go there.

      2. “there is no evidence he would have bleed out.”

        The issue is not whether later medical evaluation demonstrated that he would or would not have bleed out.

        The issue is the timely and appropriate treatment of a gunshot victim.

        Further I would argue that evaluation of entry and exit wounds is not sufficient to judge the severity of a wound resulting from 5.56MM NATO ammunition.

        We don’t know for certain that 5.56MM round was used. But reports state the weapon was a rifle. These days rifles used by uniform LE are usually (invariably) M4 or M16 style weapons chambered for 5.56MM NATO.

        The high velocity 5.56MM NATO round is noteworthy for it tendency to tumble and fragment upon entering the body. Even if an exit wound is present, that is no guarantee that there are not numerous fragments still present in the body that took different paths through the body creating massive tissue damage. Therefore slight bleeding from entrance and exit wounds cannot be taken as evidence of a minor wound.

        This person was extremely luck that the damage from this gun shot was relatively minor.

        The officers on the scene are also extremely lucky. The person they left without medical attention for 20 minutes might very well have bled out internally, in minutes, with hardly a puddle of blood on the ground.

        As a reminder of the potential danger of internal bleeding from a gun shot wound, consider President Reagan’s situation from 1981. The story goes that he seemed in such good shape that he nearly did not go to the hospital. Yet, his would resulted in bleeding into one lung and the chest cavity that could have resulted in chest compression shutting down the heart and lungs, or filling the lungs with blood and drowning the president. President Reagan was lucky, and his life was saved by the decision to seek immediate medical attention by diverting to near by George Washington University Hospital.

        Gun shot wounds require professional evaluation sooner rather than later.

        1. bfm – my comment was directed to our resident medical expert, randyjet.

          1. “bfm – my comment was directed to our resident medical expert, randyjet.”

            Sorry, it must be my mob mentality that compels me to but in, even when I know that randyjet is perfectly capable to making his own points.

            Still, if moderators start requiring real professional expertise and speaking only when spoken to when commenting, then this is going to become a very quiet board.

            How will people like Squeeky ever find a way to make a comment?

  18. I can not see a justification for the shoot, but the tape, conveniently cuts off before it.

    I do have a degree in Administration of Justice, law enforcement experience, as well as several years of experience in the early 80s working in an environment where confrontations the mentally ill (thanks to CA closing their State Hospital system at that time) were a daily occurrence for me, and later in life dealt with both emotionally disturbed and autistic teens and young adults in educational & therapeutic environments where physical control was sometimes necessary.

    I think what is universally lacking in these encounters is the element of patience.

    The officers seemed to be safely behind cover. I think a good pair of binoculars and a period of observation would have allowed them to ascertain that a toy truck was not a firearm and that perhaps there was something not right about the person sitting there not complying with them.

    But – the correct solution to a suicidal person is not to shoot them… And possibly the compliant person next to them.

    Officer safety.

    I get it. I was taught it too.

    It’s paramount.

    But I was also taught that you do EVERYTHING to avoid taking another human life until there is NO other choice (while you have time to think), that includes stepping out of the way of that car backing up towards you instead of shooting the driver,

    And waiting them out.

    For however long it takes.

    Not killing them because your shift is almost over, because your pissed, or because your tired of waiting anymore.

    I think that’s happening far too often now.

    Just saying.

  19. The only thing that will bring an end to this crap is to put some cops in prison for life and make sure that they are prosecuted with more severity than that for civilians. Of course, this is not going to happen since conservatives will keep on supporting things like this and juries will rarely convict. There are so many instances of the police depts refusing to police themselves, that a civilian panel or a review board should run the disciplinary process. The DAs almost never wish to prosecute because they need the good will of the cops. The review board at the very least should be able to revoke the certification of such bad cops. It is even more outrageous that the guy who was almost murdered was HANDCUFFED after he was shot. I am only surprised that he is not handcuffed to his bed and charged with resisting arrest.

    1. randyjet – he was not almost murdered, he was shot in the leg. I agree it was wrong to shot him, but I am not sure he was the one they were trying to shoot.

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