Daniels Charge Dismissal Deepens Doubts About Police Sting Operation In Columbus

1531390682941We discussed the arrest of Stormy Daniels this week and the curious Ohio laws making any touching between strippers and customers a crime, even the touching of clothing.  The arrest was part of an operation with four undercover officers.  The later dropping of the charges only deepened questions over the need for the string operation and the arrest of Daniels, who real name is Stephanie Clifford.

The 2007 state law called the Community Defense Act prohibits dancers from touching customers and vice versa.  A female policer undercover officer says that Daniels was topless when she “knowingly” touched the officer’s buttocks, placed her hands on the officer’s breast and then put her chest in the officer’s face while “on the premise of a sexually oriented business.”

The law states

(1) No patron who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family shall knowingly touch any employee while that employee is nude or seminude or touch the clothing of any employee while that employee is nude or seminude.

(2) No employee who regularly appears nude or seminude on the premises of a sexually oriented business, while on the premises of that sexually oriented business and while nude or seminude, shall knowingly touch a patron who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family or the clothing of a patron who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family or allow a patron who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee’s immediate family to touch the employee or the clothing of the employee.

(D) Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of illegally operating a sexually oriented business, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

Now, Columbus police chief Kim Jacobs says that the arrest was a “mistake” because “one element of the law was missed in error.”  Specifically, the law is only applicable to those who “regularly” perform at strip clubs and Daniels’ performance was part time of a two-night gig at the Sirens Gentlemen’s Club in Columbus.   Jacobs actually apologizes that “A mistake was made, and I accept full responsibility.”

I do not like these vague laws often enacted as morals legislation.  The provision does state “who regularly appears nude or seminude on the premises of a sexually oriented business.”  Daniels was just doing a limited appearance rather than a regular appearance.  However, she has announced that she will return to the club.  It is not clear what constitutes “regular” under the scope of the law.  How about someone who is just starting or is a temporary employee? Does appearing a couple time a year on a regular schedule mean “regular.”  The concern raised in the original blog was the vagueness of the terminology and danger of arbitrary enforcement.

There was a backlash in the area to the arrest of the woman who presents an ongoing embarrassment, and potential threat, to President Donald Trump.  Notably, Jacobs announced that not only would the three charges be dropped but the “motivations” of the officers will be “reviewed internally.”  Daniels’ lawyer Michael Avenatti posted screenshots  of what he claimed where pro-Trump social media posts by the arresting officer.

An investigation is clearly warranted but does this mean that the sheriff will now resume arresting non-famous strippers for any contact at a strip club?  If that is the case, it would be good to have a full definition of what “regular” and other key terms might be under the Community Defense Act.

149 thoughts on “Daniels Charge Dismissal Deepens Doubts About Police Sting Operation In Columbus”

  1. That this law was generated in 2007 illustrates how little the country has changed since the Puritans landed Plymouth in 1620.

  2. Ellie Ness and the G-String Men saved the day.

    But, you have to wonder about any law titled “Community Defense Act” Are the citizens protected from plundering by Vikings or Mongol hoards? Nope it is the customer touching the big toe of a stripper who showed too much ankle.

    This whole affair is asinine.

    1. They show more than ankle, Darren😉. A lot more….sometimes even a knee.
      Or so I’m told.😇

  3. TRUMP GOES ON RECORD AS A LIAR IN ENGLAND

    President Trump’s complaints about “fake news” are often dishonest. But rarely has it been so transparent.

    At a news conference with British Prime Minister Theresa May in Britain on Friday, Trump claimed that a newspaper interview that quoted him criticizing May’s Brexit and trade strategies was “fake news.” “I didn’t criticize the prime minister,” he said. He went on to suggest a recording would vindicate him.

    The recording exists. And it completely and utterly contradicts Trump’s claim.
    The Sun — which, by the way, is owned by Trump ally Rupert Murdoch — had already posted lengthy audio clips of Trump’s comments, and they clearly feature him saying:

    “I actually told Theresa May how to do [Brexit], but she didn’t agree. She didn’t listen to me.”

    “I would say she actually went the opposite way. . . . But it’s too bad what’s going on.”

    “I think the [European Union trade] deal she is striking is not the one people voted on, exactly. It’s a much different deal than people voted on. It was not the deal that was in the referendum.”

    “But it will definitely affect trade with the United States, unfortunately in a negative way.”

    Edited from: “Trump Denies He Said Something On Tape Everyone Has Heard”

    Today’s WASHINGTON POST

    1. Trump goes on record as a liar in England…

      Where hasn’t Trump gone on record as a liar? Answer, nowhere. Trump brags about being able to lie or ‘make stuff up’. Trump has gone on record, been recorded, as bragging about making stuff up, or being a liar. But, he’s making America great again, or perhaps ‘ugly’. The ‘Ugly American’; is that what the again refers to? After decades of evolution…..

    2. Not relevant to Stormy Daniels being falsely arrested in a strip club. Not in the slightest bit. Why post that spam here?

      1. Oh, sorry Kurtz. Yeah, it’s impolite to note that our president has been revealed as a liar by the media in a country which has been our closest friend.

        1. I could care less about the UK in the context of this discussion. The only possible relevance would be that England has a better enforcement regime where sex work is basically decriminalized. For the most part at least. people probably don’t know that. Good for Merry Old England. Otherwise totally irrelevant to the subject.

        2. i would also question the notion that the UK is the US’ closest friend. They are schemers of the first rank in world history and if I did not have a lot of English blood in my veins I might say more.

          Do you fools also believe in that novachuk nonsense? Today I heard NPR declare that NOvachuck “only comes from Russia.” Really. They don’t have any weapons labs in England? Maybe Fort Detrick never made anthrax either. Please.

          1. since you anti trump fools believe everything npr tells you I will expose that lie right here

            https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-chemicalweapons-german/wests-knowledge-of-novichok-came-from-sample-secured-in-1990s-report-idUSKCN1IH2HC

            yes the west germans have the compound and so do the british.

            so do the czechs and iranians.

            this is open source information on the internet but you might actually have to disbelief the dominant narrative to want to bother to look up anything the antiTrump mass media tells you in order to verify it

            the point is that the English intelligence services very well may have cocked up the whole novichok incident just to try and embarass and discredit Russia.

            i don’t know but I also don’t believe NPR knows. they obviously don’t.

            oh here’s some more references to prove the point. npr commentators are liars too i guess.

            hell the US has access to the main Novichok production facility and has helped the Uzhbeks clean it up!

            Wolf, John S. (19 March 2003). “Hearing, First Session”. Committee on Foreign Relations. United States Senate. Retrieved 13 March 2018. Hon. John S. Wolf, Assistant Secretary of State for Nonproliferation: … DOD completed a project to dismantle the former Soviet CW research facility at Nukus, Uzbekistan in FY 2002.

            learn something about the the FBI…. oh wait.. irony of ironies… MUELLER botched the anthrax investigation probably deliberately since it was Fort Detrick US government produced anthrax that apparently was used in the mail terror scheme. ask yourselves what this thing the “Deep State” really is, just a figment of some paranoiac’s imagination or a real thing?

              1. lying about what? i said a lot

                specficially do you admit:

                NPR said that “only russia had novicuk” i didnt imagine it i heard that in the car. dont have a cite.

                but i gave you cites and i can give more about that. it is demonstrably false. several nato countries had samples of it and other countries Czech and Iran have synthesized it.

                obviously, if nato countries had samples then they could have used it to stage the novicuk poisoning.

                or it could have just been criminal activity like the anthrax attacks.

                nobody proved Russia poisoned Skirpal or the other people

                the Russians had him in jail for years. They could have killed him there with little fanfare,. Why bother now? A real yarn the Brits have spun about that.

                or it may have just been criminal activity by somebody who stole some novicuk like the bad guy who stole the anthrax.

                stop pretending that the western media is going to give any of that a fair hearing. stop pretending that their vain speculations are facts. you are only fooling yourselves

          2. Mr Kurtz – I would like to think the Canadians are our best friends, they have never gotten us into a war. 😉

          3. The British biological and chemical defense labs routinely make their own lab standards when testing for suspect chemical agents. When testing clothing and urine of British survivors of the Barricade Theater hostage crisis (where a sleep gas killed a large number of hostages), they made up lab standards of fentanyl, 3-methyl fentanyl, remifentanil and carfentanil instead of buying those agents commercially. That way they know what they’re testing for.

            Since the synthesis of the Novichok agents was published by Vil Miryazanov back in the 1990s, it’s reasonable to assume Porton Down followed the same procedure as they did when testing for the fentanyls in 2002, and made lab standards of various Novichok agents known to have been made by Russia.

            But lab standards are made in less than gram quantities. Russia made several of the Novichok agents (such as A-232) in ton lots. Only Russia is known to have produced the Novichoks in quantity. Only Russia is known to have a special laboratory which can make assassination poisons to order.

            Occam’s Razor compels us to prefer explanations for events which don’t require facts not in evidence – like rogue weapons labs in the UK making enough Novichok agents to sicken and kill people, for reasons that make no sense at all.

            Russia had good reason to send assassins out after the Skripals, and they were even clumsier in killing Aleksandr Litvinenko in England, using polonium-210, which as a fierce alpha-emitter spreads itself around – the Russians contaminated places all over London and the airliner their assassins flew on.

        1. it’s not my blog. I also am not so naive to think that lying is not part of the job description for every single executive of every nation on earth. you guys need to think of something more interesting to say about the president than he is liar. that’s like saying snow is cold. yeah of course it is. now back to the topic: false arrest of sex workers

          http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/25/cops-fight-for-the-right-to-sexually-exp

          in that link it describes how police argue they have to be able to have sex with sex workers before they arrest them in order to properly enforce the laws. not making that up! completely contrary to due process and yet a common feature of law enforcement tactics all over the country.

          check it out and get a real outrage to tie your panties in a bunch if you care so much about social issues. let me see you anti trump fanatics actually aim your spleen at a specfic social problem which is solvable and not just hating on DJT

          1. In my priority list, lying police (which I find highly objectionable) fall far short of my concerns that the current President is weakening our nation and fawning over the Russian President while the Republican Congress, particularly the House of Representatives as we witnessed yesterday, not only turns their head but actively tries to support him by discrediting the investigations.

            While I suspect Donald Trump himself will not be indicted while in office. The same is not likely true for Donald Trump Jr, Jared Kushner and others who are in bed with the Russians.

            Thank you for your concern for what I should be focused on. My priorities shall remain my own. Donald Trump was briefed on today’s indictments before his trip yet continues to call the investigation a witch hunt. The list of witches continues to grow longer and the hunt goes on. You, of course, are welcome to choose your own priorities. Might I suggest modeling yourself after Louie Gohmert, a fine representative for your side.

            1. You’re pretty stupid if you aren’t concerned about the military industrial complex ginning up endless wars and confrontations with Russia that has ICBMs armed with nukes pointed at our heads.

              Where have the Democrats like JFK gone who were serious about de escalating conflict with Russia? or Jimmy Carter who signed SALT II?

              All sucked into the garbage by payoffs from the Deep State I gather.

              https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/2016-election-defense-military-industry-contractors-donations-money-contributions-presidential-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-republican-ted-cruz-213783

            2. who the hell is louie gohmert? the guy who was bitching at sztroke for cheating on his wife? idiot. it’s Trey Gowdy I like

              1. I wish you people had heard of the Church committee hearings and all the evil crap the Deep State has done. You think they are choir boys? Wow, just wow. It’s too bad that Republicans didn’t get it after 9/11 when the horrible Patriot act was dismantling our liberties and now the Democrats are the fanboys for the FBI. keep on shining their nobs, Foolish!

                1. Most here are aware of the Church hearings, COINTELPRO, etc., fool.

                  Such is the delusion of the neophyte that steps into the ring.

                  1. btw are you posting under some other nom de plume here because I havent seen R Lien before. name your sockpuppets witling!

                    1. Talk to PCS, or SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD, or Allan, or Darren, or many others.

                      You think the world starts when you get up?

                    2. It’s another of Diane’s sock puppets. Late4Dinner, ‘anonymous’, and ‘Lien’ are the same person on different wireless networks.

                    3. SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD,

                      You are a true fool, Possibly surpassing PCS at this point.

                      Can you not discern vocabulary, tone, and many other clues?

                      What an idiot you are.

                      You have been convinced by fools that this comment section is crawling with sock puppets, ignoring the obvious that you spend more time here than anyone, and that everyone is Diane.

                      Because this is what PCS claims — a fool of epic proportions only recently surpassed by you.

                      Y’all are idiots.

                    4. Additionally, SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD, what the heck does your sock puppet fantasy have to do with all the accused being on different wireless networks?

                      Does your wifi reach all the way to the WordPress server that this blog is hosted.

                      God, you are truly in over your head, you have no idea how any technology you use works — do you?

                      You are clueless and can only denigrate due to your lack of instinct.

                      Idiot, beyond measure.

                    5. Yeah, you’ve been here so long!

                      I most recently posted a few weeks ago — however, until today I was sparse with my words; maybe you didn’t notice.

                      Maybe you don’t read very much but would just rather claim you are being duped by a puppet, when really, you’re being called out for various reasons.

                      Namely your quantity of posts that offer nothing, insult others, and generally have the vibe that you are the only one that knows anything.

                      SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD along with PCS has this base covered.

                      One sure way to spot a charlatan is to let them talk about whatever they want to, and when they claim knowledge in a manner that highly suggests that others have ‘missed it’ with the points the charlatan espouses being well documented history — then one can apply the label of charlatan.

                      Good luck, I am glad you’ve read something, just don’t assume you are singular in your new-found perspective.

                      It’s really insulting.

                    6. “R. Lien – is female, guys.” — PCS

                      Showing his idiocy, PCS claims I’m female.

                      Didn’t you just recently chastise Peter Hill for psychological analysis — and then state that he sucks at it?

                      Well, you suck at guessing gender.

                      Why do you always insist on making yourself look like a fool?

                      Keep going — you, Nick S., Olly, SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD, and a few demented others are obsessed with Annie/Inga/Diane …

                      What you fail to realize is that your, and others, sock-puppet obsession is a joke far and wide.

                      You berate people for not offering links — yet you do not. All your ‘facts’ are anecdotal, and yet you expect a pass because your so clever?

                      You’re an idiot only recently surpassed by SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD — not exactly a tall bar.

                    7. PC Schulte,…
                      – It could be ambiguous, so there may not be proof that is available or reliable.

              2. Louie Gohmert has a long history of ridiculous statements which seems to please his constituents in Texas just fine. Trey Gowdy, since he announced his retirement, has remembered from time to time he’s an American before being a Republican, something he forgot during his three-year Benghazi investigation. On the other hand, he wants a future job in the Justice Department which means he still must do the bidding of Trump which led to him looking silly yesterday in the hearings. Depending on the day, he can be reasonable. All the Republicans no longer running for office have moments of clarity.

                1. Benghazi, oh, that was the sh#tshow where Hillary told the security team to stand down from trying to bail out a US Ambassador. Wow, a huge loss to American prestige. . I don’t claim to understand that one.

                  Tell me was there a good result from the civil war in which the US pushed its finger on the scales, which is now a failed state over run with terrorists?

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIRYvJQeHM

                  Qaddaffi had engineered a stable regime with as high of a standard of living than any other African nation and a bunch of jihaadists who were sold American arms and given air cover ruined the place

                  Kind of like Syria!

                  But maybe I am just a Russian bot and not a red blooded American native in flyover land. Spasiba, tovarishe!

                  1. You seem to have uncovered more facts than Gowdy’s Oversight Committee who admitted to finding nothing after three years. There was no stand down order. BTW, all those countries whose refugees are being separated from their children at our Southern Border, are the result of American interference which basically set up the cartels and supplied their weapons. They and the gangs are the biggest users of the Gun Show loophole which the NRA won’t allow to be closed.

                    1. Well a little bit agree and a little disagree. First off I just got the idea from the guys who were told to stand down, that’s all. But who cares about them. You can look into it and decide they are fibbers if you like. Secondly, the illegal immigrants, whom you call refugees, I TOTALLY agree that they are coming here because of many economic and strategic policies of the US that have impelled them in our direction. Such as NAFTA that ruined the system of pueblo agriculture in Mexico; and such as the failed war on drugs that operates with cartels like the Zetas that were set up and trained by American antinarcos in the first place. Who knows the details of that but it’s a huge problem how the US has actively destabilized central American countries over many generations. And it has sent the poor people running for their lives. I feel bad for them but we still have laws about migration that are legit so I won’t join in condemning the enforcement of those laws all this time as the Deep State actors have created the mischief in the first place.

                      You remember too how Hamid Kharzai’s brother was supposedly a kingpin? Typical American puppet state, filled with corrupt officials. Khun Sa, another blast from the past.

                      It’s native born Americans soaked by taxes, competing with globalization and endless third world migrations propelled by American foreign policy mischief, who have to pay the bill. And we voted for Trump. Maybe you didn’t, but out here in flyover he was considered the antiwar and peace candidate.

                    2. No, as I recall I didn’t vote for Trump. For all of what he inherited with a steadily improving economy, which he has helped in some ways by removing regulations (although the bill will ultimately come due as our food, water, and air supply suffer). He’s undoing it all with his “easy to win” Trade Wars with the world it seems. Who knew Canada was a threat to National Security?

          2. Kurtz seems to be heavily burdened by his own topical obsessions.

            Lot’s of noise in his comments, yet lacking significance of any kind.

            A blundering fool who only sees what he wants — a charlatan at best — a fool at worst.

            1. a lame dialogue cop tells the readers, “keep moving, nothing to see here!”
              You talk like some university fop, too, pretentious and silly.

              1. Do you think you are the first to bring up the points you do?

                Do you think this comment section was barren of historical perspective before you arrived?

                Your ilk are the most irksome of commentators — one who believes they’re shining the small button of truth that has escaped all — until your arrival.

                Thank you for saving this comment section from its collective ignorance; babes in the wood we would be without your torch to follow.

                Continue to post your ignorant assumptions of all here, feel free to make a fool of yourself — it matters not to me.

                It makes me happy you have read at least some books, but stop preaching.

                1. it matters not! it matters not! ha you crack me up “Lien”

                  are you a lawyer too or just pretendin?

                  i recommend a dose of henry miller if you want some real American English style to correct your pretentious claptrap

                  1. Would you prefer ‘I don’t five a f***’?

                    It seems so.

                    We all write and speak with a lifetime of influence, I do apologize that my influences do not match yours.

                    So when you pull the corncob out, let me know.

                    Is that better?

            2. topic obsession. that’s called topical relevance. you maybe jealous because i wrote 40 relevant topical comments with interesting articles linked, on the issue of false investigations of sex workers in the past day or so, to which you apparently have nothing to contribute

              1. Yeah, I’m jonesing for your record.

                Do you think you could write in complete sentences with proper punctuation?

                It might further your points, some of which are valid.

                But most are written with the erroneous assumption that you are the only one with knowledge — a very tiresome perspective long offered by Nick S., PCS, SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD, Olly, Allan, Karen S., and many others.

                  1. It seems you have a lot of free time at your day job, then — given the timestamps of your posts.

                    But hey, whatever — keep making a fool of yourself.

                1. R. Lien – I only think I am one of those with knowledge, not the only one. I just know that I know more than you. 😉

                  1. Another supposedly clever quip from PCS whose arrogance knows no bounds while he sits at home claiming to know more that anyone.

                    Yet his posts are anecdotal in nature and rarely have a reference — a point he belabors others with continually.

                    Complete with the passive-aggressive smiley the man blunders through life unaware that he has impressed no one.

                    1. R. Lien – I am here to impress no one, only to amuse myself. You amuse me. 😉

        2. one thing I would like to see people discuss is the history of the US interfering in other countries’ elections. Starting with the immediate postwar Italian elections, throw in Iran, update with Serbia, just to name a few. The US is the worst perpetrator of intelligence-operation anti-democratic activity in the past century and it dwarves whatever post-Soviet Russia has done by far.

          The NYT made the point, at least once, though not many people cared evidently

          https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html

          It’s not ok and somebody ought to say so but they’re too busy going after DJT to care

          1. “I would like to see people discuss is the history of the US interfering in other countries’ elections.” — Mr Kurtz

            Yes, this would be a valid topic that most Americans cannot fathom nor acknowledge, let alone discuss.

            It would be wonderful if Americans asked themselves what they would do if some drones launched from the Kamchatka Peninsula killed people in Alaska, Washington State, Oregon, or California.

            Granted, most here would cheer if bombs fell on the west coast.

            Karma in foreign policy is a b***ch.

            Welcome home chickens, welcome to the roost.

              1. Wow, new information — such a fool, Kurtz.

                There have been hundreds of books, thousands possibly, written on the US involvement in Central/South America and the Caribbean from the mid-19th century onward.

                Please, take your presumed bow-tie and stuff it. You write like a child who just saw their first eclipse.

              2. If you want to impress, offer suggestions to restrain our military.

                Start with the War Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548) and how this has been ignored by every administration since its passage in 1973.

                Talk bout the Patriot Act whose passage created and amended far too many USC codes to list here.

                Then discuss the AUMF, (Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23) where congress totally abdicated their authority for funding war.

                Then discuss how the populace can derive a strategy so as to allow said to have input on where blood and money is spent in our name.

                To bring up historical issues, that you assume no one knows about, is silly.

                Good luck, really.

                I’ve talked on these issues for many years and what I’ve learned is that most Americans don’t want to hear it, They want to live the illusion that we are a country of peace and benevolence.

                Tackle the broader issues, don’t lecture about the history you only recently learned assuming this is new knowledge everyone.

          2. one thing I would like to see people discuss is the history of the US interfering in other countries’ elections. Starting with the immediate postwar Italian elections, throw in Iran, update with Serbia, just to name a few.

            You’ve got your countries confused. And I wouldn’t tke John Prados all that seriously.

            1. what’s confused? US played with all those countries elections.
              there is a big element of projection in this whole BS Russia collusion narrative….normally it would be a bunch of democrats grinding the axe but their lame candidate hillary lost in a result that surprised us all, so now they want to blame somebody “the Russians” and hang it on Trump.
              the irony is thick

              then again when JFK got done in by LBJ- et al, where were the democrats to defend the result of an American election against the Deep State actors of that time? they took the soup, kept on trucking, chummed up with the other party in the phony coverup report, and LBJ delivered them the goods. for a while at least. they chickened out is what happened.

              oh wait I forget that’s just a conspiracy theory too, right, Lee Harvey Oswald did it. Or the Russians did that one too. Cant keep all the BS blamed on the Russians straight anymore.

            2. Ah, another point of denial by SOT/DSS/NIS/TSTD — ignoring well documented history.

              It is a pattern exhibited most consistently.

              1. R. Lien – could we get a cite on this, especially since you have been complaining about that sparsity of cites?

          3. Mr Kurtz – The United States has meddled in everyone’s affairs since it became a world power. Not unlike Great Britain and every other colonizer. Follow the world’s natural resources and you’ll find American influence trying to control it. If it weren’t for oil, we never would have been involved in the Middle East. Hell, it’s how we got Hawaii, they had no interest in becoming a state.

            1. I agree. On a certain level, every country has to do bad things to ensure its own national interest. but not every bad thing is worth the bad karma nor the risk. Nor the potential long term enmity it may create.

              Like Ho Chi Minh. A popular hero, he could have and would have won a free and fair election if held countrywide in Vietnam. So, see, they didn’t have one. Because the wrong guy would have won. So we went down the path of establishing a puppet state, Was it worth it?

              At least Trump has made a good stab at ending the freakin Korean war. Seriously, what a waste. What other presidents have dropped the phony charade about that? It’s a simple thing. They want nukes to secure their sovereignty. Which the US has threatened every single day since the cease fire by its massive presence on the 48th parallel and diplomatic shenanigans. Trump made a good proposal. And yes about the only place you can hear about it is on RT, why, the Russians are “colluding” with him? No, maybe because they aren’t some kind of sycophantic choir for the American military industrial complex… and neither is Trump.

              But Democrats won’t cut the guy any slack, they want to badger the hell out of him night and day.

              1. Mr. Kurtz,…
                You are clearly correct that Ho would have won Vietnam-wide election after the French IndoChina Warn in the mid-1950s.
                But I wouldn’t overlook the fact that he did away with political opponents, and had the “advantage” of having a complete totalitarian grip in the North of Vietnam.
                The “opposition minority” who politically opposed Ho tended to have short life expectancies, or long stints in concentration camps. ( aka, “Political Reeducation Camps”…sort of a strict “school”).😒
                There was, and is, a sanitized version of the kindly “Uncle Ho” that took root.
                But that version is at odds with Ho’s actual reign, and Vietnam’s history.

            2. Enigma,…
              I wouldn’t put the U.S. in the same league as a colonizer with the U.K., France, Belgium, etc.
              Just a look at history and maps at the height of colonization shows the U.S. lagging far behind the classic, or real “champions” of, colonial empires.
              ( A footnote; the first time I saw John Oliver was as a “foreign correspondent” on The Daily Show. He denied that Great Britain ever forcibly colonized anyone.
              His view was that the British people were always “unfailingly polite”, and would always first asked those in foreign lands “Do you want to be colonized?” before absorbing them into the British Empire.
              Then he proceeded to “debate” Jon Stewart on the actual history😁.)
              Also, colonialization was a point of contention between the U.S. Allies and America toward the end if WWII, and the early part of the postwar period.
              FDR especially had differences with Churchill in this area. While America was not totally consistent and firm in its opposition to colonial empires, it had far fewer overseas “possesions” itself.
              To the extent that it “stood behind” the colonial powers after WWII, it was often in the context of the Cold War and countering Communist insurgencies.
              Anyway, I don’t think that there’s much of a comparison in “colonial activity” between the U.S. and some of the major European powers.

              1. Tom Nash – It’s true that the US lags behind the countries that until this Presidency, we considered our staunchest allies. We got off to a slow start having been a colony ourselves and then dealing with that whole Civil War thing.
                Of course, some of our expansion by negotiating with Great Britain to establish how our northern border was aligned, bought some of the country from the French and let Manifest Destiny take care of the rest. We stopped at Mexico because according to John C. Calhoun, it had, “too many Mexicans.”
                We took over Hawaii but made it a state so we could establish large naval bases and do bomb testing against the people’s will. We “colonized” Puerto Rico which hasn’t done them much good nor the US Virgin Islands.
                While not always establishing colonies, we let military occupation accomplish much of the same thing without the inconvenience of governance.

    3. Peter, I give you credit for bringing that up but on this site, the truth does not go far with his base readers. Did you notice that JT wrote nothing about the house hearings on the FBI?

        1. Funny that JT wrote nothing, because the republicans did say the word Hillary. That alone would be enough for JT to write something don’t ya think?

          1. if you guys think prof turley is sitting around all day thinking up new articles for you to be pleased with, well, i doubt it. if you dont like his venue then you could always go away.

            i dont agree with turley all the time but i like the blog and the good comments from people at least when they are relevant even if i dont agree, but please be relevant!

        2. the only possible relevance is that Szroke guy is about the same kind of cop that is out there presuming the sex workers are guilty and then trying to set up a phony prosecution against them to prove things instead of conducting a real investigation.

          that irony prolly escapes you. i am offering that to my friends on the right who can see how unfair it is to have creeps like agent sztroke “investigating” the president with a predetermined result in mind but they don’t worry too much when the FBI the country raiding massage establishments looking for nonexistent sex slaves every fall. yes every fall that’s a big fbi shingdig. maybe republicans could get behind writing congressman and telling them to stop harassing lawful businesses where middle aged women are helping people relieve stress and pain, and get after pimps exploiting underage girls instead

        1. it’s a very serious comparison I make and it affects all of us who are out there walking around in a society where law enforcement procedure is often shoddy and even worse corrupt.

          that doesn’t just harm fringe people who are accused of things like sex workers it goes all the way up now to the winner of the election.

          in between people can be indirect victims such as when a family loses someone to an organized crime figure who is operating under a screen of operative immunity by being a snitch like whitey bulger who was left on a really long leash by his FBI handlers

          and who was there on the ground at the time? none other than robert mueller.

          but it’s unfair to “link” him to that. he had no responsibility they say. take their word for it, they explain it all away here

          https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/04/13/hannity-attempts-link-mueller-whitey-bulger-don-hold/kDPSq2ek8xDTFiPZix4yoL/story.html

          the deepest issue here that we all should agree upon is that an accused person deserves due process and when cops think they are guilty from the get – go like agent Sztroke the investigation is at best, tainted and unreliable, at worst, a threat to the constitutional liberties of everyone

          in this Stormy and the Donald have an ironic moment of shared destiny

          1. but, like all the republicans who wanted to impeach Bill Clinton for getting a blowjob– a ridiculous and vain prosecution — excuse me because he perjured himself over it– whatever; the democrats are going to go for broke against the donald no matter what

            there was a lot of bad stuff they should have investigated clinton for besides getting a blowjob which was surely the least of his crimes. seriously. it’s not worth reprising except to pause and scratch your head and ask how stupid and gullible we really all as a plebiscite to be distracted by unimportant things and turn a blind eye to really grave threats to liberty and security.

            i mean the whole anti russian fervor now is INSANE.

            I suggest some of you liberals out there go read Stephen Cohen’s articles in the Nation questing the entire dubious anti russian fantasy narrative. and appreciate that the donald is doing us all a service by de escalating conflict with Russia which is armed with nukes in case any of you forgot aimed right at our heads all of us.

      1. FishWings et.al,…
        I thought that you, Peter Hill, Enigma, DB Benson, Natacha, Late4Dinner, R.Lein, Anonymous, Isaac, and about a dozen others were part of the “base readers” here.
        And not a small minority.
        I know that the claim that you’re making has been made before, and that opinion seems to be shared by a LOT of people in your tiny minority.
        Kind of ironic when you think about it, or if and when you count.
        Maybe I’ve been deceived by the media bias here, and am understating your concerns and overstating the size of your “alliance”.
        (” Alliance is an imprecise but a fair description. Actually those of us who are “base readers” here prefer “The Enemy” to “Alliance”).
        Now the media bias I referred to is the constant barrage of all-capitalized headlines ( and then some) that drowned out other news.
        I’m not totally won by over by volume and and SIZE OF THESE NEWS FLASHES THROUGHOUT THE DAY, because I know nonstop pinko propaganda when I see it, and know that “that’s the way your hardcore Commie works”.☺😉😃😋😂
        Anyway, I’m now expecting headlines today like “JT THREAD MINORITY OVERWHELMED BY BASE READERS” , or maybe “DEPLORABLES VASTLY OUTNUMBER US, THE REASONABLE PEOPLE HERE”.
        In closing, I’d like to say that I share your concerns about the “base readership” here.
        We just happen to disagree about who or what that base readership is.

    4. Peter Hill — The Donald is not able to distinguish between truth and untruth. So he can’t actually tell a lie, which is uttering a falsehood, knowingly.

  4. (music–)
    Well I went out with a waitress…that I hardly knew…
    How was I to know….
    She was with the Russians too?

    da da da dant dant dant danna…

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