Tillerson Calls Trump Undisciplined and Sought to Violate Law. . . Trump Calls Tillerson “Dumb As A Rock” and “Lazy”

440px-Rex_Tillerson_official_portrait.jpgFormer Secretary of State Rex Tillerson unleashed on President Donald Trump at an event for a medical center.  Tillerson said that he stopped Trump from violating the law and that Trump is both unread and undisciplined.  Trump responded by calling Tillerson “dumb as a rock” and “lazy as hell.”

Tillerson told CBS’ Bob Schieffer: “So often, the president would say here’s what I want to do and here’s how I want to do it and I would have to say to him, Mr. President I understand what you want to do but you can’t do it that way. It violates the law.” He added “It was challenging for me, coming from the disciplined, highly process-oriented Exxon Mobil corporation, to go work for a man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn’t like to read, doesn’t read briefing reports, doesn’t like to get into the details of a lot of things, but rather just kinda says ‘this is what I believe.’”

Clearly this is not a relationship that has improved with time.

274 thoughts on “Tillerson Calls Trump Undisciplined and Sought to Violate Law. . . Trump Calls Tillerson “Dumb As A Rock” and “Lazy””

    1. Hey,Oky1–Shame on you for linking us to the website of the anti-Semitic, homophobic Brother Daniel. If you support the rants of that nutcase, then it appears you are of the same ilk!

      1. Lawrence,

        duckduckgo.com is a search engine.

        And hell ya I don’t like you sick Pedophile supporters & other mentally ill nut jobs.

  1. Sorry to comment again so quickly, but I couldn’t help but think…
    The gist of the article was Rex Tillerson telling tales about the current White House resident and his seeking to violate the law??? I wasn’t following Jonathon Turley during the Lois Lerner IRS illegal targeting of Conservatives, Eric Holder and his involvement in Fast and Furious, Loretta Lynch and her meeting with WJ Clinton on the Tarmac, revelation of BH Obama’s email correspondence to HR Clinton on her private email Server after PUBLICLY stating he found out about it thru the MSM, like everyone else, the discovery of Anthony Weiner’s Laptop containing 600K Govt emails, so I wondered who was invited to comment as an insider on those issues? Someone discriminated against??? By a Government agency under the Obama Administration? Like someone from “True the Vote”? Brian Terry’s brother or Father, perhaps? How about the LEO that squealed about the tarmac meeting?? And two birds with one stone…interview an LEO that saw the WEINER Laptop!!! Oh that’s right…that would be a death sentence for some poor soul, and we’ll NEVER hear about what they REALLY found. I read SDNY LEO’s that had to examine the Laptop material needed psychological counseling afterwards.
    Unless the TRUTH is revealed, we will never heal as a Nation.

    1. Phyllis, Honey: There is this thing called the “Kellyanne Pivot’. Here’s how it works: every time Trump does or says something stupid, illegal or just wrong, instead of acknowledging or responding on the merits, pivot to complain about something Obama, HRC, or some other Democrat did or said. Wave the magic wand. Bad things done and said by Trump magically go away because Obama did this, HIllary did that. Poof. Gone. This technique was consistently used during the 2016 campaign season. No matter what the question about something Trump did or said, Kellyanne would pretend the question wasn’t asked and would try to turn the discussion into an attack on HRC, President Obama or some other Democrat. Once you realize this is what she does, it’s actually amusing to watch her squirm to avoid the merits of questions that were asked. When journalists didn’t let her get away with it, they were attacked as “fake news”. Now you’re doing it, so you’re thinking the way Faux News wants you to think.

      Life doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t matter what any other person did or said. Trump is responsible for his gaffes and the stupid things he says and does. Nothing any other person did or does excuses Trump’s failures and crimes.

      1. Anonymous, “Honey”–It sounds like you are a strong proponent of the old double standard as applied to democrats and republicans, i.e. blame the republican and absolve the democrat for the same crime….Your argument against Phyllis would be more credible if you were to criticize previous administrations for their crimes or stupidity. I beg to disagree with you–it DOES matter if a previous administration broke the law and the perpetrators should be prosecuted for it at any point in time!

        1. Prior administrations aren’t in power now. Trump is in power now. What he says and does now are relevant to current issues and policies and how this country is being run right now and where we are headed for the future. Nothing any other administration or person ever did, said or failed to do excuses Trump’s current failures, nor do these things have any relevance to his conduct, his narcissism, his lack of leadership qualities, poor choices in selecting agency heads and the endless chaos in the White House. This isn’t a double standard, because Trump’s conduct isn’t to be evaluated according to the conduct of anyone else. If he’s said or done things out of line, then we don’t excuse his failures by pointing to the failures or criticisms of others. That’s like a child getting caught stealing cookies from the cookie jar complaining that his older sister did the same thing, so it’s OK.

          1. Your reading comprehension still sucks. What Phyllis and Lawrence are describing are not failures of policy decisions but outright violations of the law or abuse of power that went unchecked by previous Presidents. You apparently view the success or failure of the President by how well they accomplish your agenda; without any regard to the separation of powers and/or the rule of law.

            If you have evidence of the latter committed by this President then bring it, otherwise you’re just another of the deranged policy whiners unqualified to critique the constitutionality of the office.

            1. Phyliss’s concerns are BS, IRS scrutinized liberal organizations, we just pout and play the victim. So it goes, policeman assasination is a new one for me but who can keep up with wingnut lunacy.

  2. Not worth many words. Tillerson was dumped and thinks it’s payback time. No great mystery.End of story.

    1. Apparently Trump had a few words to add in response to Tillerson’s comments:

      Oh boy. Here we go. Donald J. Trump tweeted:

      “Mike Pompeo is doing a great job, I am very proud of him. His predecessor, Rex Tillerson, didn’t have the mental capacity needed. He was dumb as a rock and I couldn’t get rid of him fast enough. He was lazy as hell. Now it is a whole new ballgame, great spirit at State!”

      12:02 PM – 7 Dec 2018

  3. “Tillerson said that he stopped Trump from violating the law and that Trump is both unread and undisciplined.”

    – Turley Blog

    I’ll tell you something else Trump is, Mr. Tillerson, a duly elected President of the United States under its Constitution.

    Mastery of that fact, apparently, requires some reading and discipline on the part of your elite, “swamp” class.


    As far back as the presidential primaries, Trump established himself as an anti-intellectual. The man who just verbally pops-off without studying the issues. But in the minds of Trump supporters, that’s a perceived strength.

    The idea seems to be that ‘only elitists’ study issues’. ”Only elitists care about science’. ‘Only elitists care about the truth’. ‘Real men simply pound their chests and yell out their gut feelings’. Leaders like that appeal to commoners fed-up with the status quo.

    Tillerson, however, should have recognized Trump’s limitations during the primary season. Tillerson, in fact, was naive to think he could reason with Trump on any rational level. Tillerson apparently set out to prove the State Department could be run like a corporation. To that end he fancied Trump as a kindred spirit.

    1. “The man who just verbally pops-off without studying the issues. But in the minds of Trump supporters, that’s a perceived strength.”

      You hit the nail on the head. IMHO this is exactly why the trump has as much support as he does. He acts like a strong man. No need for studies, no need to take into account what others think. This is what I think and because I think it it is right and proper, so I do it. I.E. he acts just like a strong man dictator that unfortunately this earth has seen far too many of over the past few thousand years.

      I do hope our Constitution holds and our Congresspersons and Senators take back the power they have relinquished to the Prez over these past 80 odd years.

  5. So Tillerson merely pointed out that a billionaire businessman has an unorthodox management style. The only question I want answered is, why didn’t Tillerson know this and why didn’t anyone told him this. Must have been hard going from being the boss to having a boss.

    1. Kim Jong Unfollow – I saw an interrogatory of Trump which included his management style, done before his election. Everything Tillerson is complaining about is part of Trump’s style. He has attorneys (several of them) who keep him out of trouble. He delegates most of the work and he is the face of the brand.

      1. I think at least one of Trump’s former attorneys that kept him out of trouble is now in deep trouble. Time will tell how entangled Trump is with his attorneys illegal dealings.

  6. The son-of-a-tiller should should go back to tilling for Exxon. He was afforded the opportunity of a lifetime by Trump to serve as Secretary of State. Why not show a little class and gratitude by keeping his peasant yap shut?

      1. Chuck:

        Because his conscience won’t let him stay silent about the danger of this idiot any longer.
        Idiot? He’s worth a billion and pulled off the greatest election surprise of all time to become the POTUS. How’s your life in comparison?

      2. Chuck,..
        For the record, Tillerson called Trump a “f***ing moron”—- not an idiot.☺
        After that came out, I was surprized that Tillerson lasted as long as he did.
        Calling your boss an f-ing moron is not a great career booster.
        Technically, I think an idiot ranks below a moron in intelligence.
        Either way, it’s gotta hurt when a former CEO of one of the world’s largest companies is booted out by a moron or an idiot.
        Tillerson may view his firing by Trump as the equivalent of a janitor for Exxon telling him to hit the bricks.

      1. That’s true Tom, but he should still appreciate the opportunity. If Trump offered me an appointment I’d be there in a second. And if it didn’t work out and he asked me to leave at some point that would be okay too. I would still be appreciative of the amount of time I had to serve and the experiences I had. You don’t see Sean Spicer or Scaramucchi (sp ?) out criticizing Trump. They still support him even though he replaced them. Tillerson is just an ass.

    1. True. Tillerson’s comments (whether one agrees or not) demonstrate that he should never have been Secretary of State.

  7. Who is Rex Tillerson trying to fool? ExxonMobil is a repository of morals and ethical behavior? Uh-huh…Not! Rex lacks the class one would expect of an executive…maybe that’s why he was available on such short notice for the job.
    I’ve never understood how a “professional” could or would use the word “MORON” in the same sentence as “PRESIDENT of the United States”, in whose service he had accepted to be employed. It borders on treasonous, IMHO, to me, even now, to speak disrespectfully, or to “tell tales out of school”, but then, I was raised by hard working, loving, disciplinarians, that tried to instill a sense of LOYALTY in their children.
    Of course, isn’t that what’s wrong? People complain about POTUS’ lack of decorum by displaying a “lack of decorum”.
    “The Pot calling the Kettle black…”

    1. Trouble is, Phyllis is that you keep putting the qualities of being the President of the United States onto Trump because, like him, you are enamored with the title, even though there is no substance. A POTUS is an honorable, patriotic person of high moral character who puts country first. A POTUS is altruistic, and even though he/she has a political agenda, a POTUS is someone who finds ways to compromise and work with opponents, instead of calling them names. A POTUS is someone who pours over reports and intel, consults with knowledgeable people and then tries to come up with the best solution to a problem. Trump is none of these things. He is a petulant man-child who wanted the most powerful and prestigious position in the world solely for ego reasons, and who would lie, cheat and pull all the stops to get it. You complain that Tillerson spoke disrespectfully of Trump, the almighty POTUS. Trump does not deserve respect. He is a fake POTUS. He lost the popular vote and conspired with a hostile foreign government to steal e-mails in order to win the votes he did get. He also pandered to prejudice and xenophobia, qualities which are un-American.

      I love it when people who think they are reasonable see all the flaws but chalk up Trump’s issues to a simple “lack of decorum”. This has to be a Kellyanne talking point. You are sadly mistaken. Bragging about puxxygrabbing is not “locker room talk”–it’s a crime. Decorum isn’t the issue. It’s lack of character, integrity and simple basic knowledge of how the U.S. Government works. Even though Trump is relatively ignorant of the process as to how laws get passed and things get done, if he had successful leadership qualities, he would understand the wisdom of consulting of more-knowledgeable people, which is what a smart person would do. Therefore, his lack of political savvy wouldn’t be a big problem. Truth is, he’s no leader. He’s a bully, a cheat and liar. He is a malignant narcissist who constantly has to be the center of attention. I’m sure it killed him at GHWB’s funeral to be forced to sit there and hear praise heaped on someone other than him and to not be the center of attention. He had to be thinking about whether he would receive a similar funeral. No, he won’t. He will go down in infamy just like Nixon.

      1. Anon: you’re an anonymous nonentity not fit to detail the qualities of the POTUS
        Nixon was a good president actually
        help the environment please and contain your hateful remarks they take up too much oxygen and you’re contaminating the earth with your excess mouthbreathed CO2 pollution

        1. Nixon had some interesting policy initiatives, but he was a wretched administrator and had a thin hide, thus various abuses.

      2. A POTUS is an honorable, patriotic person of high moral character who puts country first.


        Gen. Eisenhower left office in 1961. Since then, we’ve had John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Bilge Clinton, and Barack Obama.

        1. Other than Clinton and Obama, all the former POTUSs served their country and wore the uniform, which is nothing any Trump can ever claim. Kennedy used his father’s influence to get into the military because he couldn’t pass the physical. Clinton and Obama still have higher approval ratings than Trump, and were more successful than Trump can ever hope to be. They didn’t cheat to win the presidency, either.

          1. Other than Clinton and Obama, all the former POTUSs served their country and wore the uniform, which is nothing any Trump can ever claim.

            Lyndon Johnson was a member of Congress awarded a commission. He was a passenger in one mission over the Pacific and then mustered out on Pres. Roosevelt’s orders. Trump had a perfectly ordinary I-Y deferment of which hundreds of thousands were granted every year, after which he was excused because of a high lottery number. That bothers you. Clinton actually executed a deft series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations. The term ‘draft dodger’ is flung around by partisan Democrats at any Republican who wasn’t in uniform, but there are very few actual draft dodgers – i.e. people who broke the law or schemed to get special consideration. Hubert Humphrey, Richard Cheney, George W. Bush, Dan Quayle were all smeared at one point or another, even though there service records were perfectly in order. Clinton, who actually did have a special deal, and Bernie Sanders, who hired a draft lawyer who ran out the clock on Sanders’ eligibility by pressing a bogus claim for conscientious objector status, are actual draft dodgers.

            You really should aspire to be something other than a blatant moral fraud, but you can’t manage anything better.

            Clinton and Obama still have higher approval ratings than Trump, and were more successful than Trump can ever hope to be. They didn’t cheat to win the presidency, either.

            1. Whatever their approval ratings were or are (vis a vis Trump, who may be in office six more years), it is irrelevant to their military service.

            2. Trump didn’t cheat at anything. It’s amazing the way you lie. All the time and about everything.

            3. Trump built a business with $9.5 bn in annual revenue and 22,000 employees. Clinton has no history in the business world at all. Obama was at one time a copy editor for a company which produced corporate newsletters under contract. It’s only stupidity which induces you to assert that Clinton and Obama were ‘more successful’.

            1. Johnson was deployed to Pearl Harbor 3 days after the Japanese attack as a naval officer, and was decorated. Trump was in military school and loved parading around in his uniform, but intentionally delayed getting his heel spurs fixed so he could avoid actual military service. His heel spurs didn’t stop him from playing golf, however.

              No one said that the approval ratings of Clinton and Obama are related to military service. They both enjoy higher approval ratings than Trump. Clinton, who came from a non-privileged single-mother home, was a Rhodes scholar and earned a law degree due to his intelligence and academic success. Obama was also mostly raised by a single mother who wasn’t wealthy, and also earned a law degree due to his intelligence and studiousness. The success of both of these men is due to their intelligence and determination, as opposed to Trump. who was gifted with $1 million by his daddy in the 1960’s, when that was significantly more money than now. Despite this, he managed to run multiple businesses in the ground, filing 7 bankruptcies and cheating lots of craftsmen and contractors in the process. That’s why he cannot borrow money from U.S. banks and is looking to the Saudis to loan him money. Therefore, the fact that MBS ordered the torture and murder of a journalist is no big deal to him, especially since they might order some military equipment from the U.S. which he thinks might make him look good. Then, there’s his deference to Putin, which is nauseating to anyone who is patriotic and knows about Putin and his track record. But, but, but Trump wants to build Trump Tower, Moscow.

              “Trump didn’t cheat at anything”? Do you crawl out from under your rock sometimes to read and watch television? Ever heard of Trump University and the multi-million dollar payoff to its victims? How about all of the Trump associates and campaign personnel who have pleaded guilty to felonies? Have you heard about all of the abuses of tenants in Trump properties? Where have you been?

              1. Johnson was deployed to Pearl Harbor 3 days after the Japanese attack as a naval officer, and was decorated.

                He was ‘decorated’ by Douglas MacArthur for riding in a plane over the Pacific. No clue why MacArthur elected to devalue military decorations with that ironic prank, but he did. It’s been a matter of public record for decades that Johnson’s military service was notional. Don’t know where you been.

                Neither Clinton nor Obama have ever been a success at much of anything other than getting elected to public office.

                1. From the LBJ Presidential Library website:

                  LBJ Military Service

                  On June 21, 1940, Lyndon Johnson was appointed Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Naval Reserve (USNR). Reporting for active duty on Dec. 10, 1941, three days after Pearl Harbor, he was ordered to the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Navy Department, Washington, D.C., for instruction. He began working on production and manpower problems that were slowing the production of ships and planes, and he traveled in Texas, California, and Washington, assessing labor needs in war production plants. In May 1942, he proceeded to headquarters, Twelfth Naval District, San Francisco, California, for inspection duty in the pacific. Stationed in New Zealand and Australia, he participated as an observer on a number of bomber missions in the South Pacific. He was awarded the Army Silver Star Medal by General Douglas MacArthur and it was cited as follows:

                  For gallantry in action in the vicinity of Port Moresby and Salamaua, New Guinea, on June 9, 1942. While on a mission of obtaining information in the Southwest Pacific area, Lieutenant Commander Johnson, in order to obtain personal knowledge of combat conditions, volunteered as an observer on a hazardous aerial combat mission over hostile positions in New Guinea. As our planes neared the target area they were intercepted by eight hostile fighters. When, at this time, the plane in which Lieutenant Commander Johnson was an observer, developed mechanical trouble and was forced to turn back alone, presenting a favorable target to the enemy fighters, he evidenced marked coolness in spite of the hazards involved. His gallant actions enabled him to obtain and return with valuable information.

                  In addition to the Army Silver Star Medal, Commander Johnson has the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal and the World War II Victory Medal.

                  On July 16, 1942, Johnson was released from active duty under honorable conditions. (President Roosevelt had ruled that national legislators might not serve in the armed forces). On Oct. 19, 1949, he was promoted to Commander, USNR, his date of rank, June 1, 1948. His resignation from the Naval Reserve was accepted by the Secretary of the Navy, effective Jan. 18, 1964.

                  LBJ didn’t just fly around in an airplane. Using his talent and organizational skills, he streamlined logistics to get ships and planes into service more quickly. He also did reconaissance that helped streamline and make more effective naval operations in the South Pacific, exhibiting calmness in the face of danger when his plane experienced mechanical failure. Tell me, please, what Trump ever did for his country that compares to this.

                    1. There’s one single thread that this post makes obvious: Trump attacks anyone who criticizes him, no matter what the facts and no matter who it is. His disciples do the same, even to the extent of attacking former Presidents who were gallant in the service of this country. Who knows how many lives LBJ saved by getting ships and planes online faster, and by personally observing battles in the Pacific to strategize how to deploy resources more effectively. He was an executive and used his executive skills and talents to help win the war, but a Trump fanatic demeaned his contributions by accusing him of merely flying around in airplanes. Now, I’m being attacked for presenting these facts.

                      This is what Trump has done to us: he has coarsened our national discourse and normalized the grade-school tactic of pivoting to attack any critic, no matter who it is and no matter how valid the criticism, and demeaning anyone more successful and courageous, even war heroes like John McCain and LBJ. There is no way for us to grow as a nation with him at the helm.

                    2. “There is no way for us to grow as a nation with him at the helm.”
                      Therein lies the problem. Relying on politicians for our nation to grow and better itself. People need to stop looking at politicians for answers and instead take the initiative on their own.

                    3. Natacha, you do absolutely nothing to improve the quality of discussion in this forum. You’re not in a position to criticize anyone for any deficit of character.

                  1. LBJ didn’t just fly around in an airplane. Using his talent and organizational skills, he streamlined logistics to get ships and planes into service more quickly.

                    In your imagination only. He wasn’t on active duty long and his previous executive experience began and ended with a stint as a second-echelon official of the WPA.

          2. Tell us, exactly, using “facts” — how did Trump “cheat to win the presidency”?

            Hillary Clinton cheated in the election. This we know as established fact. And let’s talk about cheating in elections. Look into Obma’s background with ACORN. Look at how Obama won his seat in Illinois.

            1. TBob: doesn’t Faux News put out the facts about what the CIA and FBI have said about Russians interfering with the 2016 election? There is no dispute that this happened, except maybe in the minds of Trump disciples. Do you really think this happened in a vacuum, without the active involvement of Trump and his campaign/ Aren’t you aware of all of the felony convictions and guilty pleas? Do you really think Mueller won’t be able to connect the dots? How about the circumstantial evidence that Trump lied about meetings with Russians to built Trump Tower Moscow? Pivoting to accuse HRC and Obama does not change the facts about Trump, and this is one of the points of today’s discussion.

              1. “doesn’t Faux News put out the facts about what the CIA and FBI have said about Russians interfering with the 2016 election?”

                No, the Fake News does not “put out the facts.”

                That’s why you are not aware of the “facts”…

              2. Russian involvement in our elections has existed for a long time and certainly a long time before Trump even became involved. Obama did nothing. It wasn’t until Trump came to the scene that anyone in government did anything and then what was done was a series of illegal acts by the FBI to implicate Trump in an Obama administration failure. Nothing to date has demonstrated that Trump did anything with the Russians that was illegal. We do, however, have significant evidence that illegalities and wrong doing occurred during and by those working for the Obama administration and perhaps Obama himself.

                The unmaskings were certainly illegal. The FISA warrants were likely legally insufficient. The crimes did not involve the Trump campaign or Presidency. The people working for Trump that were charged were charged with process crimes that likely were created by the special prosecutor and the FBI. Cohen who worked for Trump was not his primary attorney. He has been arrested for lying which seems to be ingrained in his character but likely has nothing of legal value against Trump. He is being charged with Tax fraud and illegalities involving Taxi medallions. He and the special prosecutor seem to have a lot in common.

          3. Woodrow Wilson and FDR were ostensibly among “all the former POTUSs” who “wore the uniform”.
            Which branch of the military did they serve in?

  8. That’s Tilly’s opinion. As leader of Exxon, Tilly must have prided himself on being a disciplined detail guy. Those are not necessarily the qualities you want in a visionary creative leader at the top of the organization. He says Trump didn’t know ‘the law’ but that’s why he has staff surrounding him who do know the law and can advise him. Duh. Donald Trump didn’t succeed in the rough and tumble world of New York City property development by being an oblivious idiot. Trump knew how to ‘deal’ and get things done – which is not easy to do in real estate development, nor is it something Washington DC is known for being able to do. And as far as not being concerned with the details, Trump properties are impressive and beautifully done, right down to the last detail. If he can do the same for Washington DC, and the country, that’s not a bad thing.

    1. Tillerson doesn’t know ‘the law’ either. He’s relying on staff in the employ of the Department of State.

  9. Trump has always been a conman. Period.

    “I’m a billionaire.” I’d like to see his bank accounts and case flow statements.

    “Only I can fix it.” He’s “fixed” the:
    – deficit (ballooning)
    – relations with North Korea (it’s building more missile launch sites)
    – trade issues (trade deficit at a record level)
    – relations with China (ha; google “belt and road China”)
    – economy (we’re headed for a recession for which the Fed has few tools to correct)
    – stock market (Dow is down ~400 points)
    – immigration (wasted millions by sending regular army troops to the border; he has an undocumented immigrant working for him at one of his golf courses)

    Gott im Himmel! We have a conman posing as our president.

    In Mueller I trust.

    1. Sorry Marco you don’t rank high enough to see his info. But you can dream!

      deficit: out of control and primary responsibility on Congress
      DPRK: good efforts and diplomacy. but they control their own behavior not Trump
      trade: a decades long problem worsening over many adminstrations and long overdue for addressing with the strong measures that only Trump has delivered
      China: a rising power and he has managed our situation amazingly well. yesterday the DOJ was sabotaging him by arresting Ms Meng
      economy: doing well but subject to downturn as part of regular business cycles
      stocks: a bubble long in the making that had a good correction, triggered by the the Meng disruption caused by DOJ sabotage
      immigration: more action than before that’s for sure

      anything else? Next time stick to your idolatry of Meuller

        1. if they are hallucinations then I don’t need to close my eyes to see them
          rather they are assertions based on observeable phenomena

          but perhaps it is all illusory?

          That Atman (self, soul) is indeed Brahman. It [Ātman] is also identified with the intellect, the Manas (mind), and the vital breath, with the eyes and ears, with earth, water, air, and ākāśa (sky), with fire and with what is other than fire, with desire and the absence of desire, with anger and the absence of anger, with righteousness and unrighteousness, with everything — it is identified, as is well known, with this (what is perceived) and with that (what is inferred).

          —Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.5

      1. I concur congress passes the budget, but the executive branch “influences” the legislative branch when it comes to passing bills. Besides, the Reptilicans in Congress are afraid of going against Herr Drumpfenfuher on anything.

        Trump is in “love” with Kim. He said so himself. How can trump be in love with Kim and still do anything meaningful with DPRK? Kim is playing Herr Drumpfenfuher just like the Kim regimes have played all presidents. The only solution, unless you want 250k-400k dead residents of Seoul after 24 hours of war (sources: The Economist; Foreign Affairs), is negotiations. The Koreans, like the Iranians, are tough negotiators.

        Forgot one in my initial response: Iran. Pulling out of the agreement was stooopud. Why? Iran has and still is complying with the agreement. Guess what the EU and Russia are now doing? They are setting up an alternative way (other than US$) to pay for Iranian oil. Why is that bad? Almost all globally sold commodities are prices in US$. The oil would be priced in Euros. That decreases any leverage we have over Iran. Btw, the Iranians have historically been some of the toughest negotiators anywhere. Colin Powell’s CoS, Larry Wilkerson, wrote years ago that there are only 4 options when dealing with Iran:
        – ignore
        – bomb
        – invade (iran’s army is many times better than Iraq’s army ever was)
        – negotiate
        Oh, the Iranians are building longer range missiles. Stomp feet!! By bringing, albeit slowly, Iran into the global market and politic the issue of its missiles could have been addressed.

        Concur, all economic expansions are followed by economic recessions. It’s a fact of life, a fact I’ve dealt with during my more than 35 years of successful investing (btw, i bought AMZN @$176). However, neither the economy nor the markets (>US markets) like uncertainty. The markets are reflecting that uncertainty right now. The main cause of that uncertainty: trump’s tweets.

        I served more than 25 years in the US Navy. During 2 of my duty stations (assignments) i served alongside members of the Marine Corps, both enlisted and officer. I can say, with one exception, that each Marine upheld the traditions of the Corps. During my last duty station I served with 2 Marine Corps majors, both mustangers (each served initially as an enlisted man). Both were exemplary officers, men and friends. Robert Mueller is a combat wounded Marine. He too served with honor in the Corps. His service in the federal government has been exemplary. He is a “by the book” public servant. Most folks don’t know that he was an attorney in private practice for 10 years. He disliked private practice, so he returned to public service.

        “In Mueller I trust” isn’t BS.

        1. He may have been a fantastic Marine but my concerns are not with that but his activities as a lawyer. His service as a lawyer has not been exemplary. It has been that of a career bureaucrat that rose to the top and there made many notable blunders.

          I agree the Iran deal was ok but it is likewise ok to pull out. Not a big net effect either way

          I agree the thing to do with DPRK is negotiate and he did it. You just apparently have a hard time admitting that he did more to negotiate than anybody since the armistice or ceasefire or whatever because he put security and an end to the war on the table. HIs comment about being in love with Kim is sales talk no more.

          Not clear if they got to that level but it was clearly on the horizon for once. I wonder if the Deep State Mueller types would have allowed it even to get to that stage however. The last thing the US wants it to lose ROK to a reunification government like the Soviets lost East Germany. Pompeo is certain to make sure the DPRK negotiations are a failure would be my guess.

          It’s unfortunate a person like you with interesting life experience and success would hold an idolatrous opinion of Meuller.

          1. let’s be clear. just in case anybody wonders.

            South Korea is essentially a US economic colony. Too much peace means US troops could come home. Can’t have that! Japan as colony is the reality too.

            Decades of anticommunist drivel confused Americans into misunderstanding the nature of Asian Communism which operated as a working and peasant class lead national-socialist phenomenon more than anything.

            There are a lot more Koreans in the ROK that take a more conciliatory view of communism than people may think. Don’t forget the student riots etc. Communist in the Japanese colonial period are widely viewed as the true nationalists and many ROK early officials were and are regarded as essentially pawns of the Americans who were kindlier successors to the Japanese but foreign overlords nonetheless.. The issue of national identity actually means something there, on both sides, something deeper than ideology. At the end of WW2 if there was a “democratic election” for a national unification president I would bet that the winner would have been named Kim and not Rhee.

            China is probably content with the status quo too. the only relevant power i could see that would really like a reunified Korea, besides Koreans, would be the Russians, who have a regional interest and shared border and might be very pleased to see China lose the influence it currently enjoys as Uncle to the DPRK.

            All the anti Russian phobia has however neutralized any hope of cooperation with Russia vis a vis China. A lot opportunity.

          2. It’s not idolatrous by any means. I have an appreciation of how Mueller follows time honed rules. Why do you think he was silent during the 60 days before the mid-terms? It’s doj protocol. Comey broke that protocol in October 2016.

            Pulling out of the Iran deal is a big deal. Why? As I noted, the other signatories are establishing an alternate means by which Iran can be paid for the sale of its oil! As almost all globally traded commodities (e.g., oil, metals, farm products, etc.) are traded in US$, this establishes a pathway to dilute the US$ hegemony as “lingual Franca” (literally, “the language of trade”; hey, I had 4 years of Latin in HS!). Also, this sets a precedent for future “treaties” as our allies now see as untrustworthy.

            The damage done by trump will require years for the US to correct.

            In Mueller I trust.

        2. “Trump is in love with Kim”.
          If anyway has a “guy crush”, it seems to be Marco’s love for Mueller.

              1. Yeah, we’re all very impressed with Dirty Diane’s lame impressions of Clint Eastwood.
                Her “go ahead, make my day”, “don’t mess with Marco”, “don’t mess with a Marine” are all as powerful as if Eastwood himself had uttered them ad nauseam.
                The repetitive mantra, ” He who will not be deterred, Robert Swain MuellerIII” that Diane is so fond of repeating sounds more like one of her coven’s chants than a Dirty Harry line, so I didn’t include that in the earlier category.

          1. If and when there is a space to type in my email address and name, I type them.
            When there is no space provided, but only the “post comment” circle to click on, I’ll probably post anyway from now on, even though it will show up as “”anonymous” .
            It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out “which anonymous” is posting, although they will all be considered Natacha by PC Schulte.😉😀
            At a minimum, my posts that show up as anonymous can be used by a Chronic Deflector to dodge or change the subject.

            1. You poor schnook, you.

              If and when there’s a space in the cauldron to add an eye of Gnash and a tongue of Ptom, then my sisters and I will boil and bubble them. When there is no space provided, we’ll toil and trouble commenter’s Anonymous, anyway.

              P.S. The misfortune at issue has not yet befallen Don Pablo Eschoolbus. Any helpful hints for your trusty sidekick, Pablito?

              1. Given that the investigation into Diane’s coven (and her participation in it) is ongoing, I can’t get into details and specifics.
                That’s because there’s a need to “protect the ongoing investigation”.
                But with the key assistance of a special investigator, who served honorably in ths Marine Corp, the pieces are all coming together for the
                Diane/ Coven/ Collusion Final Report.
                Looks like our coven investigation will continue well into 2019 and maybe into 2020.

                1. P.S. There are no security clearance background checks for witches nor warlocks. Likewise, there are no security clearance background checks for Presidents of the United States. There are only primary elections and a general election. However, there are no elections for witches and warlocks. Any jack-a-napes can accuse any jill-a-frappe of being a witch. No evidence is needed. Because no evidence is admissible. Because The Devil’s Book is a notorious forgery. How else could Trump’s name appear therein? Obviously Putin put it in there. And Manafort’s one, too.

  10. Outrageous accusations and Tillerson should be ashamed.

    The Evangelical Angel doesn’t read?? That’s like saying Trump’s companies hire undocumented workers or that his products are made in Bangladesh while he simultaneously belches “Hire American” at his weekly rallies.

    Totally preposterous.

    1. “The Evangelical Angel doesn’t read??That’s like saying Trump’s companies hire undocumented workers or that his products are made in Bangladesh while he simultaneously belches “Hire American” at his weekly rallies.”
      Or that Dave137 will mention Trump’s company cracked down on illegals a year or so before this propaganda was written.

      Style tip, Dave: Religious bigotry doesn’t look good on anyone.

      1. It was fun watching our “evangelical” president grapple with The Apostles’ Creed upon first encountering it…he gave up, reading is tough for the guy. A dour look was sufficient.

        1. He’s a Presbyterian. They are reknowned these days for fiddling with the more established forms of liturgy and creed, certainly more “flexible” than Episcopals, and so it’s not unlikely that he was unfamiliar. However: WHO CARES

          the “orange man bad” crowd always finds something to pick at even when they really could care less about it.

  11. Actually, I think this is generally true of all Presidents. They want to do something. The Deep State won’t let them.

  12. Trump got in by pandering to haters. The mindless and the dupes bought hook line and sinker that America in the sixth successful year of recovering from a Republican caused recession, was in a general state of disaster, that everything that had gone on before was wrong, that America was on the precipice of doom, that only Trump could save the day. These are the Ugly Americans and they continue to ignore that Trump is the oligarch of all oligarchs and the T in Trump aligns with the T in Treason. Trump is a result of inherited money, unending scams, six bankruptcies, tax manipulation that is only available to the mega rich, a fortune made pandering to the mega rich at the expense of the middle class, and owns several golf clubs. What continues to baffle is that he is the consummate liar and blamer; yet his followers lap his BS up. Now he appoints a bimbo from his favorite ‘real’ news channel to be the US ambassador to the UN. Embarrassment following disgrace following incompetence; this is the President of the US. Fox News is not only fake news but no news as it simply doesn’t print stuff that shows Americans what a disgrace our President is. Hopefully he will be impeached before he does any more long lasting damage or won’t do much more before he loses in 2020. If the Democrats can’t beat this buffoon in 2020, then the US is in for another recession, not as bad as the one Bush Jr. caused but many steps backwards and for a longer period.

    1. Isaac,

      In reply to your nasty remarks: I voted for Trump. I am a lawyer. I suspect that my formal education exceeds yours. Certainly my reading list over the past three decades does. Perhaps I am a mindless dupe but then what would that make you?

      You do not read my mind nor do you read the average voters for any party. Your speculations are unfounded, overstated, and I suspect they waft from your fingers as malodorously as the fetid stench emanates from your slack jawed maw.

      This blathering nonsense is one of the worst posts you have made in weeks. I hope you feel better soon. Perhaps there was an overconsumption of Molsons or perhaps a diabetic fit caused by excess Maple Syrup consumption.

      Be careful in the future and read your own foolish remarks before you hit send.
      A modest suggestion, from a mindless rube dupe Ugly American hater to my respected interlocutor from Canada.

      1. Mr. Kurtz,..
        I think that Isaac needs to believe that the 63,000,000 Americans who voted for Trump are “haters”.
        It’s a variation of the “basket of deplorables” comment that worked so well for Hillary.
        Isaac is not nearly as well-known as Trump, so there’s no way of knowing for sure if 63,000,000 Americans might hate Isaac, were he better known.😉😄

      2. Comrade Bacon Boy is one of the programmed it’s and it can’t be talked to or reasoned with so you all need to address items to it’s programmer in the or working for the ruling class. Ad Machina and remember it’s not ad hominem as that requires a human presence.

        1. Isaac,…
          You might have a distorted view of Trump voters as “haters”.
          What you view as hatred may merely be dislike of the sanctimony of a snotty immigrant, who perhaps ran out of things to bitch about in his native country, and took his act South.

        2. Issac, it’s actually easy being a Trump supporter. One recognizes his personality and judges the man based on his success. It is a lot harder to promote in a positive sense the lies of the Clintons and the failures of Obama..

      3. ‘In reply to your nasty remarks: I voted for Trump. I am a lawyer. I suspect that my formal education exceeds yours. Certainly my reading list over the past three decades does. Perhaps I am a mindless dupe but then what would that make you?’

        This infantile response, of being better educated, without knowing the education of the person you attack, reading more, etc. is pure Trump. Trump’s the one that is appointing a bimbo to be US ambassador to the UN, not me. You should direct your ire at your champion, for he is again letting you down, along with everyone else. At least most Americans realize this. That so many Americans, but not the majority, actually voted for this idiot is the scary part.

          1. Paul

            I listened to her on Fox News. In the context of ambassadors to the UN, she is a bimbo. I read the Wash. Post, Wash. Times, NY Times, and Fox. It is important to see both sides. Fox News and the Wash Times routinely don’t print stuff that shows Trump or the Republicans in a poor light. The Wisconsin power restructuring hypocrisy for example. I have listened to the bimbo present herself and see nothing but a lapdog. To send this sort to the UN as a representative of the US is nothing more than an insult, perhaps what Trump intends, as in, ‘This is what I think of your holier than thou organization.’ That is the only conceivable reason for her representing the US. Nikki Haley, at least, had a mind of her own and some presence. Nikki Haley was not a bimbo. She sat head and shoulders above most of the idiots that swarm around Trump and Trump himself. As Trump does not measure up to the office he holds, his choice for ambassador to the UN falls well short.

            As an American I am disgusted with the likes of Ivanka Trump, a silver spoon bimbo who has nothing to offer women and represents in absolutely no way the plight of women world wide, being the one that Trump sent to sit on stage with Merkel and other highly intelligent women to discuss the situation with women world wide or anywhere for that matter. This is Trump idiocy or a slight, or both. Ugly Americans will eat this up.

            1. issac – so it is the former not the latter. Any woman picked by Trump would be a bimbo. That is horribly sexist of you.

              1. If Trump picked the woman because Trump thought she was a bimbette, then it would just be more sexism from Trump. Otherwise . . . Maybe Gen. John Kelly has something to do with it. (He’s talking to Mueller now that he’s cashiered, you know.) Executive privilege? Ha-Ha!

        1. isaac insults and then criticizes others for anger when they are offended. hmmm
          ….. isaac, hope you are feeling better over the weekend. try and get that sense of balance back soon. have heard it helps to have a conversation by not leading with an insult, but,what do i know

          as for the UN i could care less if its nikki haley or the new lady. im not the boss.

          oh, as for Turmp voters being scary idiots or whatever you called us, I understand sometimes feelings of fear and anxiety can seem overwhelming. I’m not a threat to you, but who knows what your special circumstances may be. If feel free to talk a qualified counselor if you feel that your fear of Trump voters is affecting you in any of the major areas of life. Good luck~

        2. Actually, the scary part is that the Democrat party, and Obama, with a lot of help from the media, chose to hand the nomination to the god awful Hillary Clinton so that she and Bill could stink up the White House — again. Joe Biden would likely have won the election if he had been given the chance to compete. And Bernie would have been the nominee, but for the cheating and corruption of the primary process by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. It was all rigged for Hillary — who couldn’t even win with all the money, all the cheating and all the advantages she was given. Can you imagine if Hillary had moved her shady pay-to-play operation she had going on at the State Dept into the White House? Trump was indeed the better choice. And that’s the scary part.

          1. TBob

            Couldn’t agree with you more. This, along with that buffoon that sits in the White House, is a result of the dysfunctional system of electing our representatives. It is a successful oligarchy, and those that can’t see that are, as Turley stated, chumps. My way or the high way. My country right or wrong. It may be stupid but it’s America. All these pathetic jingos illustrate how distanced too many Americans are from the intentions of the founding fathers. They would puke their guts out if they knew who was in the White House and if they saw how our leaders are chosen, for us by the ilk that almost hung them for sedition.

    2. Isaac, do you know that you, yourself, come across as a ‘mindless dupe’ who simply regurgitates the Obama/DNC/MSNBC/CNN spin that you have apparently bought into ‘hook, line and sinker’?

      I recall the many puff pieces the media would put out about how well-read Obama was. In fact, we are told that Obama is one of the most literate and well read of any recent presidents. Oh my. And they would put out his summer vacation reading list. How impressive. Or we would hear stories how after having dinner with his family, he would retire to his library to read and review his briefing books for the next day and perhaps write letters to fans. Yes, this was the Obama our country just didn’t deserve. So well read. So smart. So savvy in dealing with not just the country’s, but the whole world’s problems.

      What a load. We all know Barry was in his study watching ESPN every night and he sloughed off everything he didn’t want to deal with onto his pal Valerie Jarrett who ran the show while the media ran cover for him.

      Have you ever listened to Barack Obama in a free form interview with cue cards? He literally has nothing to say. The man was an empty-suited and unqualified puppet on a string being told what to do by everyone around him with a complicit media that ran cover for him – right to this day. But you go ahead and believe the spin.

        1. Well thank you kindly, Miss Squeeky. And it’s true. Obama can talk all about community organizing…woop woop…or sports, and of course Hollywood and all the musicians and celebrity athletes he likes to hang out with. And he can talk about being a dad and going on vacation and his golf game and all those things just fine. But you get him on a stage in a forum of intellectuals having a deep dive discussion? Whoa. It’s startlingly obvious how little he has to say or contribute. That’s why he doesn’t do much of it. He’s a lightweight in every sense of the word. A total media creation.

          1. I don’t think Obama is stupid or anything, but I can not recall him ever saying anything that was inspired. I went to look up his quotes, and nearly all of it is stuff that is insipid, political pablum:


            The most honest ones I could find were, “Why can’t I just eat my waffle?”

            and “Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.”

            Part of the problem is, he was elected before he really had a chance to grow up and learn some things about life.

            Squeeky Fromm
            Girl Reporter

            1. I would add the one where he said: “That’s the good thing about being President, I can do whatever I want.”

              I think it proves the point you made in your last sentence.

  13. TRUMP DID NOT ASK (REQUEST) TILLERSON TO DISOBEY THE LAW. TRUMP QUESTIONED WHAT ACTIONS COULD BE UTILIZED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. You are inferring bad intent from Tillerson’s quote and maybe he is suggesting it to harm Trump. But if it’s an accusation be honest and clear.

    For you to write a headline saying that Trump actually REQUESTED that Tillerson disobey the law, is a fallacy and a horrendous one at that. Every day, Presidents and cabinet members pose potential solutions to problems. Why do you think they have legal counsel? Why do you think so many issues go to the courts? The laws are ambiguous and difficult to understand as we have complicated our legal system with clearly out of touch laws. Look at immigration. No one is illegally allowed to cross our border but actually if they cross our border and have a baby then the baby is not illegal though they have clearly crossed the border with the intent to de-fraud the US and the US citizenry.

    For a President that knowingly disobeyed the law, you may want to look at so many of Obama’s Executive Actions that were struck down by the courts. THAT’S a President who disobeyed the laws.

    1. The rarefied world of a constitutional scholar and academic is quite a different lawyering gig from the workaday attorney who deals with business executives or personal banking clientele who often advance unlawful ideas. The leader is not a lawyer that is why he hires a lawyer to advise him. The role of the lawyer is to help the decision maker exercise his choices within the law and to understand the consequences of potentially unlawful actions.

      Moreover a lot of things in life and complicated endeavors such as statecraft, many choices will not be strictly legal or illegal but along a continuum or gradient of more or less lawful.

      Such as for example: Obama deciding to send drones to murder foreign antagonists here and there; was that lawful? Some say yes some say no. And on at least one occasion, actually targeting a US citizen abroad, who was allegedly involved in terrorist activity. Was that legal? If he was maybe; if he was not—? Certainly there was no arrest warrant and no trial and no order of execution issued by a US court. So, there are choices which must be made and not always pretty.

  14. “It was challenging for me, coming from the disciplined, highly process-oriented Exxon Mobil corporation, to go work for a man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn’t like to read, doesn’t read briefing reports, doesn’t like to get into the details of a lot of things, but rather just kinda says ‘this is what I believe.’”
    From the well-run studio that gave you Capt. Joseph “Burp” Hazelwood and “The Exxon Valdez Disaster,” a new movie for the holiday:

    “Tillerson – the fired, angry employee who laments his recent boss wasn’t as disciplined his former boss, Exxon-Mobile”

    … film and ego at 11:00!

    1. ungraceful remarks which smear his own record of accomplishment serving trump, which was modestly good, if yet disappointing in some ways.

  15. It doesn’t surprise me. From a distance, I think I can appreciate both men.

    Tillerson would have been reliant on the permanent government, who weren’t necessarily straight with him. My own bias is that public policy at that level might benefit from a creative tension between a Trump and a Tillerson, but evidently the tension was too much for the two of them.

    Again, the usual priggery from our moderator. I don’t think public policy benefits from that.

    1. you know lawyers deal with executives and fiduciaries who want to do illegal stuff all the time. it’s called imaginative leadership and the role of the COUNSELOR is to advise what is possible within the law.

      moreover they were talking about things that may have been sovereign diplomatic activities that are perhaps less bound by laws than the rule minded tillerson may believe.

    1. I don’t see the moderator that way.

      Many years ago, Joseph Stiglitz showed up at a campus where I was working. One of the economics faculty tells me that Stiglitz told them that a great many policy debates at the highest levels are reducible to a debate between economists and lawyers. They have quite different modes of thinking and quite different substantive knowledge.

      As a general rule, I think our political order is influenced to excess by the legal profession. I like the fact that Trump and Tillerson are not among them. However, I’d wager from his remarks that Tillerson is accustomed to an environment where the Compliance People have a great deal of influence.

  16. I doubt anyone is surprised by his statements; the truth of which are verified on a daily–and sometimes hourly–basis.

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