The Curious Tale Of The Flynn Sentencing Hearing

Below is a column on the Flynn’s sentencing hearing and the curious turn of events in the case. He is now scheduled for a new sentencing hearing in March 2019. Interestingly, while I have repeatedly stated in print and television that Flynn does not deserve sympathy, I have been widely quoted as saying that I have called for such sympathy. My point is simply that there are serious concerns raised by how this interview was handled, including the intentional effort to have Flynn interviewed without counsel. Moreover, it is possible to denounce such false statements without exaggerating the specific crime itself. It is still unclear why Flynn lied when the conversation of such sanctions was not strange or improper. Indeed, the Administration publicly was saying that it wanted a new start with Russia and would reexamine all aspects of the relationship. The hearing however quickly went off the rails. I have a great deal of respect for Judge Emmet Sullivan and have appeared before him on countless occasions. But this hearing took a radical departure from the record and the specific crime being addressed in sentencing.

One could well understand if President Trump’s fired National Security Adviser Michael Flynn was a tad confused Tuesday at his sentencing hearing on his guilty plea to a single count of making false statements to federal investigators.

Flynn appeared before Judge Emmet G. Sullivan in U.S. District Court in Washington to be sentenced for lying about topics he discussed with then-Russian Ambassador to the U.S. Sergey I. Kislyak – but never got a sentence.

Instead, Flynn surprisingly found himself being hammered by Judge Sullivan on whether he could be charged with treason and for working as an unregistered agent on behalf of Turkey. Then Sullivan indicated to Flynn he might sentence him to prison time.

That led Flynn to accept the judge’s offer to delay his sentencing until he completes his cooperation agreement with Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller’s team of investigators.

Mueller had recommended that Flynn, a retired Army three-star general, get no prison time following Flynn’s assistance to the Mueller team that is investigating whether the Trump presidential campaign colluded with Russia to help elect Trump.

Flynn has met with Mueller’s team 19 times to answer questions, but there has been no public disclosure of what he told investigators.

Sullivan’s harsh attack on Flynn was a surprise. It left Flynn in the position of someone being hit by a train – when the train was miles off its track.

Sullivan began the sentencing hearing by expressing his concern over the way Flynn was interviewed without counsel by the FBI. However, the judge soon took off in a dramatically different direction.

At points using the flag in the courtroom as a prop, Sullivan said: “You were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the national security adviser to the president of the United States. That undermines everything this flag over here stands for. Arguably, you sold your country out.”

Sullivan also asked prosecutor Brad Van Grack: “Hypothetically could he have been charged with treason?”

First and foremost, raising a treason charge is so wildly out of place on this record that it could have been viewed as an attempt by the judge at being facetious. The man in front of Sullivan was accused of lying in an FBI interview, even though the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn did not believe his false statements were intentional.

Flynn was accused of lying not about speaking with Ambassador Kislyak – something neither unlawful nor unprecedented for an incoming national security adviser – but of failing to acknowledge that he and Kislyak discussed U.S. sanctions on Russia and Russia’s position on an upcoming vote in the United Nations regarding Israel.

Significantly, none of what Flynn and Kislyak discussed had anything to do with alleged Russian collusion with the Trump campaign on the 2016 presidential election or the other matters under investigation by Special Counsel Mueller.

Conversely, treason is defined as levying war on the United States or giving aid and comfort to a nation with which we are at war. Even raising the question of such a charge against Flynn for his work on behalf of Turkey – a NATO ally – is absurd.

The most worrisome statement by Judge Sullivan involved Flynn being a foreign agent as national security adviser. Flynn’s work as a lobbyist has been raised in the investigation, but this was work Flynn did before he became national security adviser in the White House and was unrelated to the Russia investigation.

Yet the judge cited Flynn’s lobbying on behalf of Turkey as an aggravating factor he was considering in sentencing Flynn – despite the fact that this was not being used by the prosecutor as an aggravating factor.

Flynn has never been accused of being a foreign agent as national security adviser. Flynn did retroactively declare that his work between August and November 2016 as a lobbyist “could be construed to have principally benefited the Republic of Turkey.” That work was not for Russia and such retroactive declarations are not uncommon.

Indeed, various figures like Democratic powerhouse Tony Podesta (brother of Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta) filed the same retroactive declaration under the Foreign Agents Registration Act involving the same underlying work for the same country.

Violations under Foreign Agents Registration Act (until the Mueller investigation) were rarely prosecuted as criminal matters. The vast majority of cases were matters of simple filings and fee payments, or in a few cases civil penalties.

The failure to file as a lobbyist for Turkey under the Foreign Agents Registration Act hardly makes Flynn the modern-day equivalent of Benedict Arnold. It makes him the Republican version of Tony Podesta, who is enjoying his retirement in his home in the upscale Kalomara neighborhood of Washington a few doors down from the former President Obama and his family.

Sullivan walked back his comments after recess but again suggested that he might sentence Flynn to a longer period of incarceration if he went forward in that hearing.

Some legal analysts immediately pounced on Flynn’s counsel for the fact that they noted in an earlier filing that the FBI worked to interview Flynn without counsel. One – former White House Counsel Jack Quinn – even suggested on CNN that Judge Sullivan could well be concerned that an ineffective counsel claim was forthcoming due to the filing of the Flynn defense.

However, this ignores the fact that Sullivan said that he found the information troubling and took the rare step of ordering the FBI “302” investigative reports to be made public. Sullivan’s comments about treason and being an effective mole in the White House had nothing to do with raising the context of his false statements. Moreover, the point was not to suggest that Flynn was unaware that making false statements was a crime. Giving a warning puts the subject on notice that this is part of a criminal investigation. While not required absent custody, the warning was given to others but intentionally withheld with regard to Flynn.

Moreover, it is hard to believe that former White House counsel Quinn – a Democrat who worked for President Clinton, Vice President Gore and other Democratic elected officials – would have looked kindly upon the decision of FBI Director James Comey to ignore the longstanding protocol of contacting the White House counsel before interviews like the one conducted with Flynn.

All of this drama in court Tuesday came in a case where both sides agreed on zero prison time for a first offender who had a record of 33 years of service in the U.S. Army.

Moreover, Mueller admitted recently that while former Trump personal attorney Michael Cohen lied repeatedly to investigators, prosecutors simply allowed him to correct the record without facing additional charges.

And earlier in Mueller’s investigation, a non-cooperating witness – lawyer Alex van der Zwaan – received just 30 days in prison. In the same investigation, a witness who cooperated but then fell out of favor with Mueller received just 14 days in prison.

Flynn should still receive zero prison time after Mueller files a more detailed account of his cooperation. Given the cooperation previously noted and the maximum of a six-month sentence Flynn could face for his guilty plea, Sullivan was likely considering a sentence of less than six months to start within Tuesday’s hearing.

As the judge works up and down that short sentencing spectrum in the next hearing, Flynn should stand accountable for the crime he confessed to – and not crimes imagined in his record.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public Interest law at George Washington University and a practicing criminal defense attorney.

157 thoughts on “The Curious Tale Of The Flynn Sentencing Hearing”

  1. The judge’s behavior and oratory was very strange, and very inconsistent from his commentary before and during this hearing.
    First he runs warm to Flynn then goes over the top nasty to him, to the point he has to apologize and postpone the hearing’s purpose.

    Something is definitely going on behind the scenes here. We don’t have all the facts as to why this judge acted so squirrely.
    The weirdness of the judge’s affect and behavior either suggests the judge knows something about the case/situation that he feels that someone or the system is being played or gamed — or that he is losing it mentally. On the latter I don’t know if there is any other evidence to suggest that.

    1. There is more than a suggestion that Judge Sullivan knows something we don’t. He has read all the redacted portions and drew the conclusion Flynn sold out his country.

      1. “He has read all the redacted portions and drew the conclusion Flynn sold out his country.”

        Sullivan misread the dates on when Flynn was working as a foreign agent. That is pretty basic and doesn’t say much for the judge or what he actually read if he read the entire thing. Sullivan had to backtrack and apologize after finding that Flynn was not a foreign agent when Flynn’s other work started.

        Pretty basic stuff but Enigma doesn’t deal with the rest of the story. This is typical of Enigma who accused Trump of being a racist because of a 1928 article 20 years before Trump was born and that article didn’t even deal with race.

        1. The Washington Post created a new category called “Bottomless Pinocchio” for Trump and anyone else (Allan) who keeps repeating a lie he knows not to be true. I didn’t call Trump a racist based on a 1928 article but his activities while President of the Trump company where he refused to rent to black people and rental applications were marked “C” for colored to deny them. That plus his full page ad demanding the death penalty for the Central Park 5, refusing to acknowledge their innocence after cleared by DNA evidence, the birther thing and much more. I see my troll must have missed me and has returned.

          1. ” I didn’t call Trump a racist based on a 1928 article ”

            You certainly did and based it on a NYTimes article that I looked up and saw that you lied. Your comment at the time was something like the acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree.

            All your other stories leave out important facts. I told you the main issues but you go back to lying and leaving out essential portions. I wrote about this claim that was settled and why it wasn’t a valid claim to hold your hat on. I probably posted a copy of the settlement with both Trump signatures and the signatures of the authorities. It was a nothing settlement. Black landlords could be charged with the same non crime. People have a tendency to group together so one should not expect that races or religions to match the percent of different races in the community. You are nothing more than a person who continuously claims victimhood and whose specialty is Grievances.

            You are worse than a bottomless Pinocchio because you push racial discord.

            Take a look at where Jews settle. That is a group that is discriminated against. Most Jews are in a very few locations. Is that due to illegal actions on the part of real estate agents?

              1. ” Here’s part of what I said about Trump and his father.”

                As you say part, but this part isn’t on this blog. It is your own blog and is self serving especially since it looks like it was written after your comments on the blog.

                Lie, cheat and steal are characteristics we should all stay away from.

                1. You saying what I said is the self-serving and generally incorrect part. What I have never said is that Trump is racist because his father was arrested at a Klan riot. He has his own separate and distinct proof.

                  1. You indicated that Fred Trump wsa a racist because he was arrested at a KKK rally where he could have been protesting against the the KKK or just an innocent bystander In any event he was released without any charges or bail that indicates he was an innocent person swept up by accident. That I believe was your first claim DJT was a racist because acorns don’t fall far from the tree or something like that.

                    You continued making this argument through multiple threads threads Then you added the housing question which was fully explained to you along with the papers that were signed. It was a benign settlement the typical way government handles court cases they can’t win. Virtually every week you have a new complaint about Trump without proving the former complaints. I supppose you will be putting all these unsubstantiated complaint in your Book of Grievances.

                    It’s amazing how much you believe you have suffered. Portions of my family were tortured and decimated. Most are dead. You think you have a book of grievances but you don’t. Perhaps I have one but I learned to get over it for most Americans even those that were prejudiced were good people that I love. They may have denied a job to family members but they let them live and prosper. That is where you fall short.

                    1. “As always, you saying I said something is not documentation,”

                      Enough people remember and portions of your comments were quoted in subsequent threads. Only a person who is a chronic prevaricator can act as if nothing happened. People know who you are and that is enogh for me. Your proof was your typical attempt to change the facts since your proof was written after your initial statements. That alone should make people understand who and what you are.

                    2. You invent allege facts as you go along. No other people are making the specific claims you do although I do have my detractors. Earlier today you say you think my blog post was written after some comments I never made, now it’s a proof for your thesis that I went out and wrote a blog post waht to cover myself against your attacks? I’m trying to remember the lyrics to the Beatles, “Nowhere Man.” I know he was living in “Nowhere Land” where your logic apparently resides. Goodnight troll!

                    3. “You invent allege facts as you go along…”

                      Enigma, one can only laugh while you wiggle and squirm trying to run away from your words. Maybe you should learn how to control your rhetoric and stay away from calling others racist.

                    4. “My words are in print ”

                      That is right. Written down on your own blog after you found your position defenseless.

                      You corrected the record where you had control but you can’t correct the record on this blog.

                      One doesn’t know for sure if the NYTimes story was dealing with the real Fred Trump. Let’s assume it was dealing with the real Fred Trump.

                      Here is what you have to say about DJT’s comments after the fact using sarcasm:

                      “He was never arrested, never convicted, never even charged. It’s a completely false, ridiculous story.

                      There is nothing in the NYTImes article to suggest Fred Trump did anything wrong. While the other people were charged and had to post bail Fred Trump was not charged, not convicted and was let go which means he did nothing wrong. Even after the fact and with sarcasm you lied.

                2. Allan, it seems your main function, as a commenter on this blog, is to label as ‘lies’ any posts you don’t like. That was my first impression of you and every day you reaffirm it. What’s more, your willingness to falsely call people ‘liars’ reflects Donald Trump’s knee-jerk tendency to label as ‘fake news’ any piece critical of him. Which illustrates how an unscrupulous president affects all of his supporters.

                  1. No Peter, what I do is point out the hypocrisy of people like you. When I first made my comments I documented them so I didn’t falsify anything. You on the other hand play games with words and quotations. You are not trustworthy.

                    1. Being called “untrustworthy” by you is actually a compliment; since most of what you write is false. If you were calling me “credible” then I’d be a Trump toady.

                    2. Peter, I am very happy that you like being called untrustrworthy for what ever reason satisfies you. We aer getting closer to the truth.

            1. Jews like to live in ethnic neighborhoods. Of course they SHOULD BE FREE TO DO SO. But the fact is, there are NO brokers who can lawfully tell them a single thing about “how far is this from the synagogue since i have to walk on saturday.” That would be a violation of the Fair Housing act!

              Now of course many people ignore these stupid restrictions. But folks should realize it’s not just explicit racial discrimination that’s forbidden in these laws but even the slightest hint of anything related to ethnic or religious or national origin information.

              In fact it’s one of the things that has been used to DESTROY ETHNIC NEIGHBORHOODS. It’s against freedom and should be repealed.

              1. I believe Jews like other groups like to live where they will be comfortable and accepted. For many people that comfort is dependent on being close to things they are familiar with. This means that people will group together and destroy the expected percentages the census provides. To Enigma, not meeting those percentages is proof of racism. That is foolish but what does one expect when a person like Enigma is eaten away by grievances.

          2. Most Fair Housing cases are nonsense.
            Did you know they are strict liability? The regulations about advertising for example, do not concern racial intent. They only suggest that any race or ethnic or religious words or even the slightest hint of them, are verbotten!

            Or else the real estate landlord, seller, developer, or newspaper advertiser is on the hook.

            Oftentimes there are also no DAMAGES. Agencies can investigate evil racist real estate goings-on with zero actual complainants just if they don’t like how something looks. Needless to say this can punish business people badly since they need to lawyer up and pay big fees.


            1. Mr Kurtz – I have no idea what you know of the historical basis is that created the need for the Fair Housing Act. Let’s take a look at what it theoretically eliminated. “Redlining” which is refusing to sell or lend money for minorities to purchases in certain areas. “Steering” which is the practice of Realtors and others directing minorities to certain areas and away from others. Refusing to rent to minorities which is what the Trumps were in violation enough that they had to enter into two Consent Decrees. the second after they failed to live up to the terms of the first. Their managers marked the applications of black applicants with a “C” for colored to ensure they wouldn’t get a lease. Too bad they weren’t Russians or mobsters, they would get right in. If you want the details and don’t want to just accept Allan’s version (which is almost always incorrect). Google Trump Housing Consent Decree or any reasonable variation. Get the facts, read the accounts of people who tried to rent there and managers who worked for Trump. One thing we’ve learned which has always been true of the Trump Organization is that decisions are always made at the top which at that time was Fred Trump – Chairman and Donald J Trump – President.

              1. No doubt some prejudice existed and continues to exist but not the extent Enigma believes. Bankers are there to make money by providing loans. The interest rate and whether they give a loan or not is based on risk. Thomas Sowell devoted an entire book on this subject and he used raw numbers to divine what was actually happening. What Enigma believes as usual is mostly wrong.

                Trump was a landlord and if one took a blind look at the housing market in NYC one would find that Trump blended in with everyone else including black landlords. There was a settlement for Trump as there generally is for most people that are not guilty when they face a government entity. The terms of the settlement had little meaning other than to justify the money the government spent on the suit. Enigma always takes the postion of RACISM as a cause but all that does is create more racism.

                All ethnic groups have faced some type of discrimination. Orientals are being kept out of Harvard and NYC’s finest schools solely because they are Oriental. The Jews were kept out of Medical school solely because they were Jewish. The Italians were highly linked to the criminal organization, the Mafia. Does anyone hear these groups and others incessantly complain? No they go on with their lives. Even after being slaughtered in Europe the Jews go on with their lives as well. Enigma thinks he was treated worse than the concentration camps despite the fact he got a college scholarship and probably is in the upper middle class. He will say he is not worried about himself rather he is worried about other blacks. That is why we hear political yelling and screaming from him when one black is killed (a terrible thing) but he spends no time worrying about the blacks being killed in Chicago and elsewhere. To me that is where our efforts should be placed because a lot of those young blacks never had a chance.

                  1. To my knowledge it was reported that 1 salesmanager or salesperson put a “C” on the form. With the number of people working for the Trump organization I would expect hundreds and hundreds to be doing so if that denotation indicated outright prejudice at the organization. They don’t have hundreds and hundreds nor do they have other significant evidence and that is why a settlement was finally agreed upon.

                    The legal fees for the Trump organization were tremendous. The costs to government was zero because the money ultimately comes from the taxpayer. In the meantime all landlords become concerned over what might happen to them so they spend money to make sure they are not next. That money is paid by the renter.

                    In the end it is the taxpayer and renter that pay the price for ridiculous suits and that probably causes increased racial animus.

                    1. “To my knowledge it was reported that 1 salesmanager or salesperson put a “C” on the form.”
                      Your knowledge is wrong, it was standard practice as directed by Fred Trump. It soundsa oddly similar to how the Trump Organization still works. Those entities that haven’t yet been forcibly shuttered like The Trump Foundation.
                      Here’s an exerpt from an article in the Washington Post. You could research this but you’d rather tell us what you believe.

                      “Two former Trump employees, a husband and wife who rented properties, were quoted in court documents as saying they were told that the company wanted to rent only to “Jews and Executives” and “discouraged rental to blacks.” The couple told the government’s lawyers that they were advised that “a racial code was in effect, blacks being referred to as ‘No. 9.’ ”

                      Other rental agents employed by the Trumps told the FBI that only 1 percent of tenants at the Trump-run Ocean Terrace Apartments were black, and that there were no black tenants at Lincoln Shore Apartments. Both were on Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn. However, minorities were steered to a different complex on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn, Patio Gardens, which was 40 percent black, the government said.

                      One black woman, for example, was turned away at a heavily white complex but told that she should “try to obtain an apartment at Patio Gardens,” where “a black judge had recently become a tenant,” according to government filings.

                      Phyllis Spiro, a white woman who went undercover in 1973 at a Trump property, told investigators how a building superintendent acknowledged to her “that he followed a racially discriminatory rental policy at the direction of his superiors, and that there were only very few ‘colored’ tenants” at the complex, according to court records.

                      Spiro, now 86 and living in Brooklyn, said in an interview that she remembers the case vividly. She said she and her fellow housing activists found “a constant pattern and practice of discrimination” at Trump buildings.

                      Working from offices in Washington and New York, Justice Department lawyers decided to file a case: United States of America v. Fred C. Trump, Donald Trump and Trump Management, Inc.

                      A federal courtesy call
                      On the morning of Oct. 15, 1973, a Justice Department official reached Donald Trump on the telephone. It was a courtesy call, the official would later say in court papers. The Justice Department then issued a news release that said the Trumps violated the law “by refusing to rent and negotiate rentals with blacks, requiring different rental terms and conditions because of race, and misrepresenting that apartments were not available.”

                    2. ” it was standard practice as directed by Fred Trump.”

                      Standard practice? Let us hear the names of those that were proven to have done that. People like you make accusations all the time. Accusations don’t count. Proof does. I don’t think it was more than one but I am willing to hear the names of the hundreds upon hundreds of different managers where this was proven. After all, if it went all the way back to Fred Trump then ALL of the sales persons would be marking a “C”. That was not found to be the case so what you are saying is not true.

                      Take note of how your article didn’t prove the “C” was used in a widespead fashion. Take note that the comments are anecdotal and represent those that probably don’t like Trump. The 1973 statement in the justice department news release was what they charged the Trumps with. They didn’t have the proof and therefore they settled. They cost the taxpayer a fortune.

                      So far we both admit to one proven “C”. You are a waste of time Enigma.

              2. i know a thing or two about the FHA alright. more than the average lawyer who doesn’t know diddly. but i’m not going to spin out my CV it would kind of run contrary to writing under a fake name, wouldn’t it?

                here is a link for you, perhaps you might quit complaining about long dead old Fred Trump and read about what the US government used to do to promote segregation


                i tell you there is no amount of historical grievances to grind an axe about. every ethnic group has them, and black folks can grind axes forever if they want to, like the hatfied and the mccoys. same mentality. irish and the english, ukrainians and russia, chinese hate japs, viet hate chinese, etc etc etc, on and on and on.

                FHA was passed in 65. before I was born. and the agencies are still out there policing the hell out of it every jot and tittle and riding people’s behinds for the slightest apparent infraction. it’s preposterous and they should have their mandates truncated hard. at the very least they should only be investigating when there is an actually harmed complainant and not just out there looking for naughty real estate people to justify their overfunded budgets.

                1. One of my cdareers was in real estate and I’m well aware of the Federal/State/Local governments complicity in segregation including the programs allegedly designed to remedy it. I wasn’t grinding an ax about segregation but talking about the particular parctices of Fred & Donald Trump. Explain away “C” for colored and I’ll admit I’m wrong.

                  1. i am not denying that Fred Trump may have discriminated against black folks. I am not sure that he did or not. But I can take your word for it. That does not really bother me. Discrimination is a part of life. It’s been hard on blacks but people experience it every day. it means recognizing differences. People are different and different groups treat other groups differently.

                    Not until we are all one shade of skin and indiscernible gender and age and class will there ever be an end to “discrimination.” I believe in the joys of diversity so I for one, do not want us all to be the same color age gender religion etc. If you accept diversity then you can accept the conflict that comes with it just as much as one sports team opposes another.

                    try and live on and not worry about Fred Trump too much. Maybe he was a racist. I would not hold that against him even if you do. Most of the figures of antiquity were racist or tribalist in one way or another. Pick up the Old Testament for a good heapin helping of that. I just posted some fun quotations in another comment, check it out

                    Those who want to kill me will be destroyed;
                    they will go down to the depths of the earth.
                    They will be given over to the sword
                    and become food for jackals.

                    (Psalms 63:9-10)

                    Or let me quote another poet you may know, from a song:

                    life is violent, violent is life
                    peace is a dream, reality is a knife

                    same authorship:

                    whites got a thing they call white pride
                    blacks got muscle, mexicans got the knives
                    but i didnt know just who had the power
                    the whites the blacks– or just the gun tower?

                    1. It hasn’t occurred to Enigma that when you regulate rents and you escalate the transactions costs in evicting people, landlords respond by contriving other schemes to ration the available units and reduce their exposure to potentially problem tenants. And they’ll use every piece of data which has some predictive value. You want less ‘discrimination’, end rent control and provide for streamlined eviction procedures.

                    2. I don’t spend time dwelling on Fred Trump. There’s a troll that brings it up constantly, mistating what I said and injecting “facts” of his own requiring me to set the record straight. He is compelled to defend the honor of the late Fred and very alive Donald and detests me for accurately portraying them. I’ll spend little time on Donald once he’s no longer President. Spending time hating him would be like taking poison myself hoping he would die.

                    3. “I don’t spend time dwelling on Fred Trump.”

                      That is not quite true. You spend time on anything where you can play the race card to gain political advantage. You are one of the causes of racism. I know too many people that died or were tortured to engage in such stupidity so I look to see how we can make things better organically rather than through a totalitarian state.

                    4. “i am not denying that Fred Trump may have discriminated against black folks.”

                      Kurtz, It is not appropriate to use character assassination without proof. Until we have facts and proof you shoudn’t be supportive of that type of claim.

                      Absent proof Fred Trump did not discriminate against black folks. He is dead, so he can’t even provide his side of the story. Enigma can play the race card whenever he wishes but such actions should not be supported.

                      I think you said you have Jewish friends. Likely one or more lost family during the Holocaust. Do you hear them whining like Enigma. Do you think they should? Did they make lives for themselves? Ask if any of their older relatives had tattoos on their arms. Ask if they whined like Enigma.

                  2. you know what i think is funny? there are so many immigrants in places like Flushing New York that they have Chinese newspapers and hell if anybody but a chinese is going to be reading the want ads and apartment listings in a chinese newspaper. The FHA bureaucrats never worry about that do they. And the Chinese sure don’t.

                    And yet in the past they did a lot of things to break up ethnic neighborhoods when the law was new. But they don’t try and do this anymore. but why not?

                    Right now let’s be honest. FHA is targeted and selective enforcement strictly aimed at WHITE PEOPLE.

                    and for the most part there are no more “ethnic neighborhoods” that are white. they “neighborhoods” have all been broken up and the ethnic tenor has drifted away but it’s drifted away partly because no real estate professionals could say “oh here is the Italian neigbhorhood” without thinking of fear for their license. Today about the only white ethnic neigbhorhoods are ones with certain groups of recent immigrants like Polish in big cities and maybe some Jewish neighborhoods.

                    part of having a territory is EXCLUSION. there is no “Irish neigbhorhood” without a certain percentage of irish and how do you keep it that way? both by encouraging irish and discouraging others.

                    the policy of america is assimilation of white people into a big mass of mush. and other people, who cares what they do. all these civil rights laws are aimed at cajoling and conforming the behavior of white america into something it wasnt seventy years ago. well, Congress has got its way, now white people don’t discriminate like they used to, and they are so weak and self hating that they cant even get together and vote and fund and build a damned wall on our southern national border to keep out throning hordes of migrants in a decade after decade mass migration that will turn “white folks” into a demographic minority soon enough. Maybe some chumps like that but I’m white and I don’t. Call me a hater but I got a good idea of how bad it can suck to be a minority and mostly in life I plan on surviving not redressing the grievances of those who want my stuff.

                    1. I spent several summers in New York (working at the US Open) and marveled at how you could cross a street and go from one ethnic neighborhood to another. Every other block there was a diner and they all had great food. I spent most of my time in Queens, some in Manhattan, I try to firget the summer in Fort Lee, NJ.
                      New York is hardly representative of the rest of America. You may feel that the laws targeted only white people but the likely reason was that white people held almost all the power and the laws and policies were set up to ensure they maintained it, kinda like gerrymandering.
                      Those that “want your stuff,” maybe just want the same opportunities to have the same kind of stuff for their families. Except those that control it don’t want to let it go”?

                    2. “Except those that control it don’t want to let it go”?”

                      You said exactly where you are heading. You want a handout.

                    3. “The word you’re looking for is access.”

                      No. You want a handout. We have opened univerites, schools, provided incredible amounts of money and many other things. The access is there but you want a handout and that type of attitude doesn’t help the people in need. Take a look at other groups that have been discriminated against and came to this country dirt poor. What made them successful? They didn’t have leaders that spout your type of nonsense.

                    4. You need a lesson in American history. You say “we” opened when “you” denied basic education to slaves, killing those who desired to read. After slavery, access to those universities (you should learn to spell) were also denied but through the Freedmen’s Bureau and some religious institutions and later land grants. Separate but definitely not equal institutions were opened to which black people had limited access. What you describe as handouts, I would describe as desiring the same rights “you” take for granted as your God given right. You see any request for equality as taking from you. Stop distorting words to mean what you hope they do an listen from time to time, you might learn something. #PitifulTroll

                    5. “when “you” denied basic education to slaves, killing those who desired to read.”

                      Enigma, you are a nut case. You are living in the pre Civil War Era. Maybe we should talk about the Jews that were enslaved in Egypt before Moses came to set them free. Maybe we should be talking about the slavery that goes on today in Africa.

                      ” What you describe as handouts, I would describe as desiring the same rights “you” take for granted as your God given right.”

                      What right is that? The right to work hard? You are pushing BS again. What about those God given rights to Asians who are denied entry into Harvard and the specialty high schools in NY. Don’t they have rights as well?

                      ” You see any request for equality as taking from you.”

                      I don’t but I wonder how the Asians feel when they are denied entry into certain schools even though their test scores are higher than everyone elses. To you they seem not to count. After all in your eyes they are just Asians and aren’t deserving.

                    6. “no knowledge outside of what you heard on Fox News?”

                      What a stupid reply from a stupid person.

                      Enigma, I’m waiting for those hundreds upon hundreds of people that put those “C’s” on the rental documents. I am waiting for you to state how unfair it is for Asians to be excluded from Harvard and elsewhere because of their race. Probably half the world was enslaved at one time or another. I am waiting for you to request reparations for all of them. I am waiting for you to stand up and fight for the lives of those black kids killed in Chicago and other cities on a daily basis. You are a self-centered egotist.

                2. Kurtz look up what happened to NYC housing when Lindsay was mayor. He went after the landlords and they started turning their properties over to the city of NY without compensation. There is such a thing as being reasonable.

            2. enigma:
              Lost in this harangue is the simple fact that people prefer to live among people most like themselves. While a kid, I could walk into any predominantly Italian neighborhood in this country and feel perfectly at home knowing the language, music, customs, sights and smells that were familiar to me. We know my experience maps onto folks as a whole because people, when left to their own preferences, congregate naturally with people of their own race, religion and culture even after half of century of government sponsored integration. I don’t believe in artificial barriers to keep others out but likewise I don’t countenance laws or activists who suppress this natural human instinct to seek out some measure of sameness. I find that laws that diverge fundamentally from human instincts become progressively more tyrannical as one group tells another how to live according to their sensibilities. That doesn’t mean we can’t come together over basic things like free speech or common enemies, however while diversity of thought has some benefit, diversity of culture and values breeds endless conflict or mindless accommodation.

              1. I think with to many Americans, that no matter how well meaning a reg or law may sound/feel, that the Federal govt & a lot of times the States/Cities/Counties have absolutely No Constitutional Authority to enact such regs/laws.

                It’s the same with this Muler persecution, Flynn, etc.., by what authority/authorities did it 1st start under & continues?



    Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has accused the UK and US political classes of “disrespecting” the public by questioning the Brexit referendum and Donald Trump’s election.

    “They don’t want to recognise [President Trump’s] victory. That’s disrespect of voters,” Mr Putin said.

    “It’s the same in Britain: Brexit happened, but nobody wants to implement it.”

    The president’s comments came at his year-end press conference in Moscow.
    Russia’s leader also said British Prime Minister Theresa May has no choice but to follow through with Brexit, as failing to do so would undermine UK democracy.

    “She must enact the will of the people, expressed during the referendum,” he said. “Or otherwise it is not a referendum at all: doing it over and over again if someone did not like it [the result]. Is it a democracy?”

    Edited from: “Putin: Voter’s Choices Of Trump And Brexit Disrespected”

    Today’s BBC

      1. Foxrot, today’s column concerns the Russia probe which Putin’s comments apparently reference.

        1. He’s cleverer than hell. He fed disinfo to Hillary to smear Trump. If she had won that would have ingratiated him with her.

          They supposedly bought social media advertising to support trump and had some sympathetic coverage on RT. Not sure if that is illegal at all but the Russians did “help Trump” a little in those sense perhaps. Probably that was just to piss off white folks.

          RT also gives sympathetic coverage to BLM for example; whatever stirs up more animosity is the general strategy it seems.

          But she lost, surprising to many. And lucky for Putin, how they have engaged this witch hunt against Trump which discredits not his victory but the democratic process itself. Not because of Trump but because of the entrenched bureaucratic interests of the MIC and Deep state that do not like the outcome. Which for a Trump voter like me, yeah, it makes me feel like how I felt before Trump won, which is that our elections are mostly a sham.
          For once they seemed like not a sham, but then, we have seen over 2 years how the establishment will punish such an unexpected outcome, and pillory and shame the winner and his supporters until the desired outcome is actually achieved.

          Russia and Washington both meddle. But Putin “meddled” far more effectively than whatever our lame espionage tricksters did over there. Why, perhaps nothing, they were so busy playing their tricks on the US population itself?

          Don’t blame Putin who is like an opportunistic bacterial infection. Kind of like the opportunistic illegal alien invaders……. Blame the weakness of the American body politic that is too diverse now for its own good and getting weaker by the day.

    1. Putin is an adversary, but he’s right. What he is doing? he’s trying to agitate us against our slave masters.

      That’s what an adversary always does, stir up trouble. And the truth is even more agitating than lies. In this Putin intends to agitate us by rubbing it in our faces, which he has.

      who knows maybe some day Putin really will help disgruntled Americans rebel against their slave masters even more. Who knows what the future holds. Russia helped China and Vietnam peasants rebel, seems unlikely Russia can do much to help the peasants here. But, Mueller’s on the case, protecting the oligarchy from the faintest possibility!

      Russians have always been smart. They like to back a lot of rebel groups often more than one in the same theatre. Oh, the US does that too of course. Smart. We’re just pawns one way or another for the most part.

  3. I’m sure all of these people love their country but what all of them do have in common is that each and every one of them agreed to a supreme (and superseding) loyalty oath – constitutional Oath of Office – to not violate the Bill of Rights and U.S. Constitution [a wartime governing charter]. They took an oath to follow constitutional due process in justice matters and wartime matters. The whole concept of American Law & Order is that the “ends” never justify illegal or unconstitutional “means”. Somehow in this environment America tortured, we did warrantless domestic spying, we locked up people without charge, without judge, without jury and without guilty verdict. Most of these people were complicit in these war crimes. Maybe America has bigger problems than entrapping people on unintentional false statements. Sounds like we need constitutional “Oath of Office” training for all government officials with an annual refresher exam. Now that would be a legitimate use of taxpayer dollars!

  4. In layman’s terms, Flynn and his lawyers were telling the judge, sure I killed my parents and I’m guilty, but now I am a orphan so give me a break. The judge was not amused.

    1. Fishy:
      Yours is crazy talk from the master of crazy talk. Flynn was a pawn in the slo-mo coup the Left is waging on the 2016 Presidential election. You’ve got a general brought down by Comey and a couple of gum-shoe agents who caught him in some lie about a legal act of talking to the Russian ambassador. Like Wilford Brimley said in the 1981 movie, “Absence of Malice” (sort of): “General Flynn may not be the brightest general we have around here but there’s no evidence suspecting him of anything.”

      1. Are you still waiting for your diploma from Trump U? Or are you just mad that you packed up your lawn chair to go see the the wall being built? Or maybe your middle class tax cut has not come thru. It must be that you had reservations for Trump Tower Moscow cancelled. Were you giving money to the Trump Foundation? Or are you just getting out of Obama’s FEMA camps. Or maybe you got left behind from Jade Helm? Did you buy a Trump Tie and found out it was made in China? Whatever you’re reading about what’s going on right now, and if you are believing it, they are making a fool of you, then again you need no help of making a fool of yourself.

        1. Fishy:

          Luckily I have you for comparison which enhances my standing by not a small amount. Your comments read like acid and you have very little to offer except that bile. Why don’t you try a rational and civil debate with someone universally liked around here like Paul S or Darren or Karen S. Or anyone of the countless others who make great contributions of thought, experience and emotion. That doesn’t include me since I have unlicensed fool status and don’t care enough to correct the intellectually wayward except in rare cases where I see some ray of open-mindedness. If you’re willing to do that, I’m all eyes to read it.

          1. Hey, who appointed you to speak for contributors to this blog? Karen S. is a Faux News/Limbaugh disciple, and tries to sound smarter and better informed than she really is. The others are similar. See, it takes a Trumpster to appreciate a Trumpster, and to be a Trumpster means that you overlook a lot of disqualifiers to be POTUS, like honesty, integrity, sound judgment, altruism, patriotism, solid mental health, skill at choosing cabinet members and agency heads, a thick skin, and respect for others. Trump flunks all of these.

            1. Natacha:

              “Hey, who appointed you to speak for contributors to this blog? ”
              Self-appointed. My tenure here gives me some perspective. I have seen scores of trolls who always bottom out when met with real argument and rationality. Let’s see if Fishy or you ever take the gauntlet or just slink away like all the rest.

        2. Trump i am so pleased to see him give the military orders that they may not like. they better follow orders, he is the CIC.

          Trump, he’s tough but he may become tougher yet. I pray for his victory.

          Here’s some Bible thumping action to go with my DJT prayer of blessing today:

          Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;

          Jer. 51:20

          Say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: Have you not murdered a man and seized his property?’ Then say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: In the place where dogs licked up Naboth’s blood, dogs will lick up your blood–yes, yours!'”

          1 kings 21:19

          Those who want to kill me will be destroyed;
          they will go down to the depths of the earth.
          They will be given over to the sword
          and become food for jackals.

          Psalms, 63: 9-10

      2. Mespo, explain how ‘the left’ launched this “slo mo coup” while Republicans controlled The White House and Congress. This assertion makes no sense whatsoever. It’s one of those mindless claims that right-wing media keeps flogging to its followers without any supporting evidence. The idea seems to be that ‘deep state’ is just so powerful Republicans are helpless to stop it despite considerable control over government.

        1. Peter Hill:

          “Mespo, explain how ‘the left’ launched this “slo mo coup” while Republicans controlled The White House and Congress.”
          Why PH they simply captured the 4th branch of government, the bureaucracy (DOJ, DOE, State. Treasury etc) and launched unending investigations meant to demoralize and hound Trump. He didn’t blink but it’s there from the illegal Comey leaks to the fake dossier to eavesdropping on American citizens. All bureaucratic and done by the un-elected Bolsheviks who honeycomb the government in conspiracy with their propaganda wing known as the corporate media. You know the ol’ leak a story to the press and then use that story as evidence for a FISA warrant from a Pollyann-ish judge.

          Come on, Peter, grow up. You’ve got a fifth graders understanding of how government works and a kindergartner’s savvy about how power is created, captured and wielded. Read Machiavelli, Nietzsche, Gibbon or Hobbes to find out about homo homini lupus. The scales may fall from your eyes.

            1. PH:

              “Mespo, I only ‘wish’ Democrats had the power you claim they have.”
              They aren’t Democrats in any ideological sense. They’re soulless power hoarders, petty tyrants, grifters and posers adopting any political label that gets them closer to achieving their will to power over the rest of us. There is no lofty principle to it. Note how the classic party of the working class now embraces their former flock’s corporate masters and then cedes working class folks to Trump. It’s a psuedo-religion worshiping at the altar of the not-so-new Baal.

              Here’s the classic Gold-Bug cipher to finding corruption: follow the money.



    In the run-up to Michael Flynn’s appearance before Judge Sullivan on Tuesday, there was great speculation by Donald Trump and his allies; including Professor Turley. They were confidently predicting that Judge Sullivan would use the hearing to denounce the FBI and Flynn’s prosecutors.

    House Republicans may have influenced events by summoning James Comey for not ‘one’, but ‘two’ whole days of questioning on Friday of last week and Monday of this week. Said questioning was an 11th hour attempt by lame duck commitees to cast doubt on the Russia probe.

    It is quite likely that Judge Sullivan bitterly resented the effort by Trump allies to portray the Russia Probe as a “witch hunt”. The Washington Post suggested as much in an article published Tuesday evening after Flynn’s court appearance. Here is a passage from said article:

    “Some Flynn allies, including the president, speculated that the judge was probing possible FBI misconduct.

    “I think it’s a great thing that the judge is looking into that situation,” Trump told reporters. The president tweeted “good luck” to Flynn early Tuesday.

    On Fox News, Trump ally and former judge Jeanine Pirro predicted Sullivan would throw out Flynn’s conviction. The Wall Street Journal published an editorial alleging that the FBI’s treatment of Flynn “reeks of entrapment” and calling on Sullivan to “question the entire plea deal.”

    Sullivan did. But not the way they expected.

    On Tuesday, nearly a dozen members of Mueller’s team showed up at the downtown Washington courtroom for the hearing, filling the front bench. Flynn, wearing a blue suit, was flanked by his two attorneys.

    Sullivan quickly indicated that he was offended by Flynn’s suggestion that he was misled by FBI agents. And he said it appeared that the former national security adviser was trying to have it both ways: to take a generous plea deal even as he telegraphed that he might have been entrapped.

    Sullivan said the FBI records — many of which the judge forced to be publicly disclosed in recent days — showed Flynn had repeatedly lied to agents, despite knowing it was a crime to do so.

    “You understand why” I was concerned, the judge told Flynn’s attorney Robert Kelner. “This sounds like a backpedaling on the acceptance of responsibility.”

    Text edited from: “Veteran Judge Upends Hopes Of Trump Allies As He Spotlights Flynn’s Misdeeds”

    The Washington Post, 12/17/18



      Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Dec 18

      ….WILL NEVER BE PROVEN AND ARE LIKELY FALSE.” Thank you to Michael Isikoff, Yahoo, for honesty. What this means is that the FISA WARRANTS and the whole Russian Witch Hunt is a Fraud and a Hoax which should be ended immediately. Also, it was paid for by Crooked Hillary & DNC!

      Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Dec 18

      Russia Dossier reporter now doubts dopey Christopher Steele’s claims! “When you get into the details of the Steele Dossier, the specific allegations, we have not seen the evidence to support them. There’s good grounds to think that some of the more sensational allegations…..

      Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Dec 18

      Good luck today in court to General Michael Flynn. Will be interesting to see what he has to say, despite tremendous pressure being put on him, about Russian Collusion in our great and, obviously, highly successful political campaign. There was no Collusion!

      Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Dec 18

      Biggest outrage yet in the long, winding and highly conflicted Mueller Witch Hunt is the fact that 19,000 demanded Text messages between Peter Strzok and his FBI lover, Lisa Page, were purposely & illegally deleted. Would have explained whole Hoax, which is now under protest!


      In these tweets, Donald Trump, the U.S. President, refers to the Special Counsel Probe as a “witch hunt”, “fraud” and “hoax”. He also makes the vague claim that “Crooked Hillary & DNC paid for (the Special Counsel Probe)”.

      Trump is also engaging in what might be termed as ‘witness tampering’ with: “Good luck today in court to General Michael Flynn”. One would not be far off base to suggest that Trump’s words here imply a pardon is possibly in store for Flynn.

      Judge Sullivan was undoubtedly made aware of Trump’s tweets. And those tweets, combined with speculation by right-wing media, may have been too much for Judge Sullivan. The latter may have felt compelled to send a very strong message to Donald Trump that ‘he’, Judge Sullivan, wanted no part of any “fraud” or “hoax” narrative.

      Professor Turley might secretly understand why Judge Sullivan was so incensed. But for the purposes of today’s column, Turley must maintain the facade of bewildered observer.

  6. Anything to pivot away from the big political story today, which is that tRump has declared ISIS defeated in Syria, all without consulting the military or members of Congress, and is pulling out troops. Even Republicans are horrified at this ex-parte decision. Lindsay Graham and Bob Corker are on record as calling it a very bad idea.

    As to today’s piece, Jon, you don’t know what information Judge Sullivan possesses that you don’t have. The FBI documents released last week were heavily redacted. You also don’t know whether Mueller’s team has connected the dots between Flynn and the Russians, and just for giggles, you did a Kellyanne Pivot to blame someone connected with HRC for what you claim is the same conduct. You also left out the part of the hearing in which Judge Sullivan asked Flynn whether he felt he was treated unfairly because he wasn’t advised that he could have counsel present for his FBI interview, and he said “No”. He was also asked whether he knew at the time he was interviewed by the FBI that it is a crime to lie to the FBI, and he said “yes”. This testimony undermines Turley’s entire argument about Flynn being treated differently than others and despite JT’s attempts to argue otherwise, he is trying to make the case that Flynn is a victim of some dastardly plot to put him in a ‘perjury trap” (this phrase has to be a Kellyanneism).

    Jon, Flynn’s 33 years of military experience is a sword that cuts both ways. On the one hand, we appreciate those who dedicate their lives to the service of their country. On the other hand, someone who has supposedly dedicated his life to American ideals shouldn’t be an unregistered agent for a foreign government and certainly knows better than to lie to the FBI.

    1. Natacha:

      “Anything to pivot away from the big political story today, which is that tRump has declared ISIS defeated in Syria, all without consulting the military or members of Congress, and is pulling out troops. Even Republicans are horrified at this ex-parte decision.”

      By definition, the CIC always makes “ex parte” (“by the party”) decisions on operational military matters. It’s not a vote or a judicial opinion.

      1. Decisions of this import, that may well result in the deaths of many people and strengthening of a terrorist organization, have never previously been made without consulting with military leaders, at minimum, and usually by consulting with members of Congress. BTW: NO ONE agrees that ISIS has been defeated.

          1. Everyone involved. Bob Corker was kept waiting at the White House for a meeting scheduled with Trump, who left him sitting there, waiting while he made the announcement to the press. Then, Corker was told the meeting was cancelled.

                1. enigma:

                  Batshit crazy? You’re going with that? He’s crazy enough to dwarf the accomplishments of everyone associated with this blog in aggregate.

              1. Mespo,
                – It appears that Trump did consult with the military, who advised against the withdrawal.
                There was no big lead-up to the decision; i.e., Trump has not been announcing for years that he was going “to end the war in Syria”, the way that Obama did when he pulled the plug in Iraq.
                That was also against the advice of military leaders, Sen. Graham, McCain, and others.
                And I’m sure that those who are “stunned” today bu Trump’s decision were equally concerned 😉😒when Obama “ended the war in Iraq” seven years ago.
                I don’t think that the decision to (prematurely, IMO) withdraw from Syria will have the same degree of negative consequences as the 2011 withdrwal from Iraq.
                The major foreign actors on the ground — Russia and Iran -would have continued to have the biggest outside roll in Syria whether the U.S. keeps 2,000 troops there, or not.
                The biggest concern about the impact of leaving is that it could leave the Kurds wide open to an all-out assault ny Turkey and others.

                1. I was sure he did. it’s his call. I’m with him and with bringing lots of soldiers home from Afghanistan. Wars have to end sometime. Hit it Freda!


      long overdue withdrawal, enough!

      you a big fan of war, lady?

      1. I’m a big fan of extremely important decisions having the input of persons with years of military expertise and multiple perspectives from persons who represent all of the American people, instead of knee-jerk, attention-grabbing tactics. Again, who in the military was consulted or thinks what he did is a good idea?

        1. natacha:

          Glad you’re a fan of our military; very conservative and patriotic of you! But like all big organizations their interests can sometimes compete with the nation’s interests in the eyes of its leadership. I’m looking at you, Mad Dog.

  7. Didn’t the Prosecution (Muellers Team) ignore a request from the Judge to turn over documents eg 302s

    As apparently they were trying to pull a fast one over the Judge

    Then proceeded to finally turn over a series of 302s with different dates and different information

    Some 302s dated 6 months after the “integration” of Flynn

    🎄 Miranda Rights 🎄

  8. ““You were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the national security adviser to the president of the United States.”

    I don’t like the placement of this statement. One had to travel far down in the editorial to find a statement that should have immediately been made by Professor Turley who then states: “The most worrisome statement by Judge Sullivan involved Flynn being a foreign agent as national security adviser. Flynn’s work as a lobbyist has been raised in the investigation, but this was work Flynn did before he became national security adviser in the White House and was unrelated to the Russia investigation.” The judge actually appologized for this. However, many might forget the followi up statement or never read that far. That is a Grievous error but Professor Turley seems to pass it off lightly. This is unfair to an individual’s character and as a civil libertarian Professor Turley should be worried about how he protrays another human being. Many people see the first statement and forget the second if they read that far. To me it demonstrates a bias that demeans another’s character and I believe that to be below the standards Professor Turley generally holds himself to or should hold himself to.

  9. ” It is still unclear why Flynn lied when the conversation of such sanctions was not strange or improper.”

    I don’t understand this statement. Those who actually did the interview felt he was not guilty. Flynn even mentions that they have the tapes so yes it is peculiar but when one adds everything up on this one issue, this issue should not be a big deal. Therefore, one has to surmise there are other things involved and that ranges from prosecutional misconduct to other problems facing Flynn or his family.

    I don’t think justice is being served using Flynn as a pawn to get at Trump. Flynn’s innocence or guilt should stand on its own. I don’t understand how Professor Turley, a civil libertarian, misses that issue.

  10. Sounds like the judge was grandstanding, caught up in an unfortunate “celebrity judge” quest. It backfired and made him look like an undereducated buffoon. Hence he delayed the whole matter to give himself time to study the law and the facts of the case.

  11. It’s beyond me why anyone would choose to serve this country anymore. This corruption is pervasive and inescapable. Judge Sullivan needs to change his meds and get a more competent clerk!

    1. That’s the total point of all this Trump/Russia Lie. That the Deep State, AKA American Hating Trash, is signalling anyone who runs for elected office or helps someone run for office without their blessings will be Destroyed & their Families & Friends.

  12. Can anyone give me a coherent summary of how Flynn’s “crimes” – including his talk with Kisnyak – did any damage to the American people, or even threatened to? What is this all about?!!

    1. igpres;
      They didn’t and that wasn’t the charge. I’ll grant you that lying to the FBI is a chicken doo-doo charge used to coerce witnesses like Mafia underlings to implicate the higher ups. However, this wasn’t the mob. It was a three-star general in the army of his country who had served the nation with honor and distinction. If the judge here had any guts, he’d call out the prosecutors for hounding a serviceman in violation of their own protocols and their own beliefs. We have an old legal adage here in Virginia from a classic Virginia Supreme Court decision in Massey v. Firmstone,134 Va. 450, 114 S.E. 652 (1922). The gist of the holding is this: if you don’t believe something to be true and you say so, don’t come to the court asking for it to believe it.

      That’s good policy here and in DC.

      1. I think the Judge has guts, but he fumbled it. His “outrage” was all over the place. To me, it seems he’s disgusted by how Mueller treated this American, and that the plea itself was a miscarriage of justice. I think he’s trying to kill the plea deal because he thinks Flynn could win if his case was tried. Trouble is, nobody but the judge wants a trial of the case, especially Flynn.

      2. Mespo,

        I saw a movie decades back, set in the 50’s I think. about the mafia… at the end of the movie the mafia bosses were talking… now we’ve been so successful & bought everything, what do we do with all this money… something, some thing, … Buy the Government!

        Turned out to be true.

        Bush’s, Clinton’s, Obama, much of US intel, their goons, Muler, Comey, large numbers Fed/State/large city judges, all mafia trash today.

        Hell notice Trump can’t/won’t go to Chicago? The Outfit, ring a bell? Hillary’s Capo Daddy…

        Back to Ret. Lt Gen. Flynn:

        What was Flynn doing & who did he piss off so bad that they are using the Federal Government to destroy him?

        Without going back & researching Flynn’s past action I believe he hates Islamic Nutjobs & then he was reported to be one of those that lead a military revolt against the Obama/Clinton/others using the US Military to back up Islamic nut jobs that at that time were call Al Qaeda.

        Note the name change after that revolt, Obama/McCains Islamic Nut Jobs went from Al Qaeda to Isis.

        Anyway, remember these pictures?

        Trump pissed those aholes off yesterday pulling out of Syria!!! LOL.

        I hope Trump remembers what Deep State Trash did to Kennedy.

    2. It’s about face-saving by Mueller and grandstanding by the judge. General Flynn served in the Army for 33 years. He received a modest salary and when he got caught-up in the anti-Trump dragnet, he was forced to sell his house to pay legal fees. Mueller cleaned him out financially, and forced him to plead guilty to a fake charge. The FBI agents who interviewed Flynn said he wasn’t lying, but Mueller charged him with lying anyway to show some paltry results for the millions of taxpayer dollars squandered on this political witch hunt.

  13. “First and foremost, raising a treason charge is so wildly out of place on this record that it could have been viewed as an attempt by the judge at being facetious. The man in front of Sullivan was accused of lying in an FBI interview, even though the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn did not believe his false statements were intentional.”


    Even an undergrad at a run-of-the-mill US college studying political science knows for a charge of treason to exist a state of war must exist with the enemy being “aided or comforted.” And unless the FISA Court issued such a declaration of war under seal which seems to be the only thing it can’t do, no war exists between the US and Russia, much to the chagrin of the radical Left. A judge should know all of that and more. This was judicial theater pure and simple and a bit of performance art that we need not at all.

    1. … Or more ominously, a look behind the mask of a judge who doesn’t know the law or the implications of raising the issue of this highest of capital offense.

      1. The judge received both his B.A. and J.D. at Howard University in D.C. He was appointed by Clinton.

        1. TIN:
          Howard Law is ranked 128th of the nation’s law schools. Let’s hope he’s a few standard deviations beyond the mean. That question of his, if serious, calls that into question. Yeesh.

          1. Mespo: If someone is black, and has all the benefits of affirmative action but still can’t get into a better law school than Howard, that’s definitely not a good sign…..I went to undergrad with a black guy who got into medical school at U.C. Davis with a “C” average. A white or Asian would have needed straight A’s and all kinds of extracurricular activities.

            1. Mespo: If someone is black, and has all the benefits of affirmative action but still can’t get into a better law school than Howard, that’s definitely not a good sign

              He was born in 1947. AA was a novelty when he was applying to law schools. There may have been sweeteners in their offer of a place and he may have had purely personal reasons to remain in DC and attend Howard. He’s lived in and around DC pretty much his entire life.

        2. Judge Sullivan was first appointed to the federal bench by George H.W. Bush. He was also appointed by the other George Bush, so he has received judicial appointments by 3 different Presidents, 2 of whom were Republicans. Get your facts straight.

            1. Slight correction: Judge Sullivan’s first federal judicial appointment was by Ronald Reagan, a Republican.

                1. The fact is, he began his federal judicial career after being appointed by a Republican, then another Republican, and finally, Bill Clinton. These facts are submitted in response to the implication that Judge Sullivan is some sort of Democratic partisan.

                  1. R’s have to meet the Affirmative Action quotas (whether formal or informal) just like the D’s. That and other other factors may take precedence over party or ideological loyalty. See, for example, former Justices Souter and Kennedy.

  14. Turley clearly does not practice federal criminal law. Neither Turley nor the public are aware
    of what is set forth in Flynn’s Presentence Report–nor is it likely that we ever will. Federal defendant’s are universally hammered at sentencing for “relevant conduct” they may have engaged in; even conduct for which they were acquitted at trial, and uncharged conduct is very often a big player. The law which guides sentencing, 18 USC section 3553, is a wide-ranging statute which provides great latitude for the district court in crafting an appropriate sentence. I suggest Turley educated himself on the nuances of federal sentencing; he missed with this column.

    1. It has been very hard to understand JT on this whole issue, He might be getting his advise from Rudy G.



  15. The judge sounds like The Hon. Jerome Meldnick in Bonfire of the Vanities, bar that Meldnick’s confusion was a consequence of having been slated for the bench due to political connections (after a career spent on the staff of the New York State United Teachers). In Sullivan’s case, it sounds like the unhappy stuff which happens to you as you age. Among my proximate relations is a man whose occupational license was recently lifted by a state board because he’s a danger to his clients. He’s not viscerally aware of his impairments.

  16. Judge was confused and bemused throughout much of the hearing. He turned on Flynn when Flynn did not follow judge down the path of purging guilty plea. Flynn obviously got cold feet presumably out of fear of Muler and what else might be hanging over his head. Judged embarrassed himself and needed to back-track on the treason talk. All three parties looked bad – judge, Flynn, and Muler team which did lousy job of enlightening anybody about rationale for this persecution (not a peep about election collusion mandate). #WitchHunt, #FakeNews, #MerryChristmas

  17. So General Flynn has plead guilty to lying to investigators about…doesn’t really matter. He lied. If he’s going to lie about legal conversations, then we know how low the bar is for everything else. I suspect Judge Sullivan took the opportunity to sentence Flynn to a public haranguing; likely intended for all public servants ears.

    1. No, actually the lie has to be about a “material” matter, i.e., something of significance, not the color of his socks or what he ate for dinner at Grandma’s.

  18. Never a dull moment.

    Something not mentioned and I’m doing this from memory. But at the time of these events was not Flynn in transition and preparation for the new job but not yet confirmed or officially in the new job as NSA? That would seem to indicate setting up conduits of information sources into the worlds trouble spots was indicated. If so that also woud indicate he many not have been working for Turkey but winding up one relationship and transitioning to another.

    Especially since it seemed to be not big secret the whole time. And at that time the registration act seems to have been treated as something akin to jaywalking Certainly not in the realm of the intentional acts in violation which Clinton committed on a daily basis, plus suborning witnesses (Oher own staff), plus,purchasing fake documents,plus the endless list of other transgressions. – as a comparison.

    Not an excuse but I myself and the entire nation witnessed a General Officer go on public television and give detailed information on how many cargo ships it took to move one of the divisions equipment and armament, the route and the length of time to make the transit each way. He later became Chief of Staff at DOD under Obama.

    It did make the pucker factor rise since I was crewing on one of those ships at the time.

    They. the General Officers, seem to live in a different world not just this one instance. but Flynn was far from being an overt publicity hound

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