Trump Goes “Medieval”: Both Sides Deepen Divide Over Wall

In his signature fashion, President Donald Trump on Wednesday embraced the criticism of the Democrats and said that his wall is “medieval” but works. Last night, the public saw both the President and the Democrats announce that they will not yield an inch as the country continues what will soon become the longest government shutdown in history. Lingering in the background is the threat of a presidential declaration of emergency — followed by a unilateral order to start to build the wall with unobligated funds. If so, the White House needs to guarantee that it will not repeat the grossly negligent performance of its first travel ban roll out. Trump reportedly stormed out of a meeting with Democrats in the afternoon.

During a signing ceremony, Trump observed “They say it’s a medieval solution, a wall. It’s true, because it worked then and it works even better now.”

As I argue in a column this week, Trump does have the authority to declare such an emergency and could likely find funds to start construction but far less than what he needs to finish a wall.

If there is a declaration in the making, Trump needs to demand better performance from his staff after the disastrous rollouts on the travel ban. That includes gathering data and findings supporting the crisis in advance. Moreover, he will have to prepare for a fight over the source of the funding. I believe that critics are wrong and that he clearly has the authority to declare the crisis.

So if you are going to go medieval, be sure to have your siege equipment ready in advance. Otherwise, it can be a tad embarrassing from either a medieval or modern perspective:

129 thoughts on “Trump Goes “Medieval”: Both Sides Deepen Divide Over Wall”

  1. Fun fact – if as per studies, prisons have more drugs “per capita” than in the US general population, either :
    a) Prisons should have walls, or
    b) If they do – then walls dont work.
    You choose.

    If the question is “drugs”, then he answer isnt “walls”.

    1. Denis:

      Fundamental misunderstanding, Denis. The walls are to keep the scum from getting out not the scum from getting in. Those walls do a good job of that.
      Guess you’re a public school Stockholm Syndrome survivor.

  2. The hypocricy of the left: “The structure serves as a sound barrier to cut down on highway and road noise” On a 700 acre piece of land that would undoubtedly have vegetation the sound certainly wouldn’t be as bad as the sound of a needle injecting heroin that came over our southern border. Of course people remember Zuckerberg’s comment taking a Jab at Donald Trump “I hear fearful voices calling for building walls and distancing people,”

    You guys on the left are all hypocrits.

    Mark Zuckerberg is building a wall

    Walls are tricky, divisive things. Just ask Mark Zuckerberg.

    He’s building a 6-foot wall around his property in Hawaii, and some neighbors are not happy about it.

    One of them told The Garden Island, a local paper on the island of Kauai, that it feels “really oppressive.” Another called it a “monstrosity.”

    “It just doesn’t fit in with the natural beauty that we have here,” Donna Mcmillen told the paper.

    The wall is near a main road that provides access to Zuckerberg’s approximately 700-acre piece of land on the northeast coast of the island. He bought the land in 2014 for about $100 million. It’s unclear how long the wall will be, but it will connect to an existing, shorter wall on one of his properties.

    Mark Zuckerberg is bulding this 6-foot wall around his property in Hawaii.
    Residents complain that it blocks ocean views and breezes — and that it sets an unfriendly tone for the neighborhood.

    “It feels to me like, ‘This is my property and you don’t have any rights to see it.’ It’s that negative kind of view and that doesn’t feel neighborly,” Maria Maitino told the paper.

    But that’s not Zuckerberg’s intention, according to his spokesman.

    The structure serves as a sound barrier to cut down on highway and road noise, and the wall’s construction has followed all rules.

    “Our entire team remains committed to ensuring that any development respects the local landscape and environment and is considerate of neighbors,” a statement reads.

    But not all locals are upset with the wall.

    “There’s no way it’s blocking the breeze,” Joan Conrow, a journalist who lives on the island, told CNNMoney.

    Conrow suspects that the people who are complaining might be used to walking or biking on the road and accustomed to seeing the ocean. But she also notes that the wall is much shorter than the trees that used to be there.

    It’s not Zuckerberg’s only construction plan in the works. Earlier this year he submitted development plans to tear down four houses that he owns near his home in Palo Alto, making the new houses 20% smaller than their original size.

    But many people find it ironic that Zuckerberg is building a wall, especially given some of his past comments.

    “I hear fearful voices calling for building walls and distancing people,” he said in April at Facebook’s developer conference, taking a jab at Donald Trump.

    CNNMoney (New York) First published June 29, 2016: 12:07 PM ET

    1. Donald Trump, Dec 2018, Dec 2018, “Our Southern Border is now secure”.
      If the border IN HIS OWN WORDS is “secure” – why do we need a wall ?

      I could explain the other logical fallacies / factual errors in that post – but let’s just point out the obvious – IN TRUMPS OWN WORDS – It cant be justified.

      1. “Our Southern Border is now secure”.

        The dam upstream from your house is now secure. Does that mean the dam doesn’t need further support? There is no logical fallacy. There is only your inability to realistically understand what is happening. You would have been sucked away in the Johnstown Flood and would never have recognized what actually occured.

        Let us get on to the next of your supposed logical fallacies. The problem is you are listening to lists created to convince people of things that are not true. Instead of actually researching and questioning what you hear you simply regurgitate these false memes whenever you have a chance.

    2. So ‘what’, Allan? Who cares about Zuckerberg?? Am ‘I’ supposed to defend him???

      Zuckerberg allowed Russian Trolls to manipulate Facebook. Then he only admitted it when questioned by Congress.

      Zuckerberg is no hero to ‘the left’. And the fact you think he is shows a certain cluelessness on your part.

      1. “So ‘what’, Allan? Who cares about Zuckerberg?”

        I don’t think anyone should care about Zuckerberg personally but many on the left did before the revelations hit them in the face. Zuckerberg was a relatively popular leftist and now he isn’t but look at what he said before and look at how those comments were received.

        You seem to think the hypocricy isn’t widespread amongst leftists. It is and many of the memes are nothing more than attempts to distort the truth. You are one of those that distort the truth but you don’t count. Too many lies and not enough fact.

        1. Allan, your post is a pathetic attempt to portray liberals as ‘hypocrites’. And it reflects the stupidity of right-wing media.

          Right-wing media is always drumming up stupid false equivalencies. So consumers of right-wing media naturally think in those terms. They’re forever holding up some so-called liberal expecting guys like me to jump to the defense. Just a few weeks back someone on this thread seemed to think I was obliged to defend Singer-Actress Bette Midler. That’s how dumb it gets.

          1. PH:
            “Allan, your post is a pathetic attempt to portray liberals as ‘hypocrites’. And it reflects the stupidity of right-wing media.”
            The so-called right-wing media has about 72% penetration into American homes with the residents’ consent. You’ve got a lot more insulting to do to reach them and they’ll hold you in about the same esteem we do around here. Of course, we all recognize your obvious superior intellect. Jack, meet arse.

            1. Mespo, right wing media reaches certain demographics. Those demographics are loyal to Fox, Brietbart, Drudge and Rush Limbaugh. They function as an echo-chamber reinforcing themes.

              Right wing media consumers keep hearing the same talking points. Which makes them bring those talking points to comment threads!

              Mainstream media doesn’t function like that. Readers of USA Today probably aren’t reading The N Y Times or Washington Post. Viewers of MSNBC aren’t necessarily reading The Atlantic or Vanity Fair. There’s no cohesive message in mainstream media.

              Even the most liberal papers feature conservative columnists. I often read conservative opinions. I don’t want an echo chamber. For that reason I don’t bother with genuine leftist sources.

              Right wing media, however, is dedicated to Culture Wars. That’s their actual business: ‘Promoting Culture Wars’.

              Right wing media rarely bothers to ‘explore’ complex issues. To breakdown the components and separate the parts. That’s not the business of right wing media.

              Their consumers want stupid false equivalencies. Something they can throw in the face of that liberal at work. ..Seriously..! That’s how stupid it gets!!

              1. PH, I know you mean well, but these people don’t even know what they don’t even know. Like enigma so doggedly tries, you attempt to use reason, logic, and common sense on a population who aren’t ever exposed to actual, verifiable facts for the reasons which you so articulately presented. Just be relieved that these types have a place here to vent their wackjob conspiratorial nonsense so that real people in real life don’t have to step over them. Just enjoy the irony that people who–for one example–have bought into the “Deep State” farce have been able to survive to adulthood.

                to PH

                1. right on down here on Copperhead road
                  Stay in the city Mark but lay back some canned goods,
                  you may get hungry when the civil war breaks out and the blockages begin

                2. Mark, it’s no problem. The DNC pays me good salary and benefits. They even let me comment from a nice condo in Hollywood. I don’t have to work from Washington like the other shills.

              2. “They function as an echo-chamber reinforcing themes.”

                Very frequently those themes are correcting leftists that are mixing opinion with fact. Again any time you wish to simultaneously tape a show or multiple shows on Fox go ahead and then prove your point. Until then all you are doing is shoveling sh!t.

                “There’s no cohesive message in mainstream media.”

                Tape your msm shows and then listen to each one of them on the same date and watch how similar the wording is. MSM folk a number of years ago were involved in a secret discussion group that was revealed.

                “Right wing media rarely bothers to ‘explore’ complex issues.”

                That is bull.They explore all the time but they don’t make things up and they don’t mix opinion with news and fact stretchng the facts to unbelieveable levels. That is the major problem with the MSM. That is why so many of your arguments conflict with one another.

                I wait for you to start proving your points instead of repeating them even after being shown that you were wrong.

          2. “attempt to portray liberals as ‘hypocrites’. ”

            Just listen to yourself. From one day to the next you have conflicting ideas that do not fit together so they are only able to be used in one argument. When you are pressed for data you shut up. When you are shown how your statements conflict with one another you shut up again. The only time your mouth is open is when you are shoveling sh!t.

            The next time an important issue is raised press me on the subject and let’s go deep. We don’t have to agree in the end but one cannot use your opinion pieces as fact. I’ve made this challenge before and for a short time you obliged but ended up having trouble promoting your point of view. Then you repeated arguments you couldn’t defend using facts previously proven wrong with facts that were indisputable.

  3. What about the 1976 National Emergencies Act codified in 50 USC 1601-1651 that formalizes certain powers for Congress to provide check and balances. Won’t that be a roadblock? Also, the Defense budget includes a $60billion contingency fund. Why couldn’t the border protection be handled using half of that contingency fund that was appropriated?

  4. Meanwhile most Democrats want us to continue fighting in the Middle East’s wars but are so unwilling to defend our own borders. They welcome foreign invaders coming into the United States illegally and they refuse to defend our own sovereignty. Yet, they are most willing to have our government shutdown as a result

    Who’s side are they on?

      1. David, unfortunately you are still trying to eat your soup with chopsticks. You don’t know what is around you and make some pretty dumb comments. Darren was correct.

    1. Darren, ‘what’ Middle East wars are you talking about?

      Yesterday John Bolton, Trump’s National Security Advisor, told Turkey the U.S. wanted assurances they wouldn’t attack the Kurds if and when the U.S. pulled out of Syria. Turkey’s President Erdogan was incensed by the request and called off a meeting with Bolton. Turkey wanted indeed to attack the Kurds!

      Are liberals supposed to support Turkey’s panned attack on the Kurds?? I don’t get the logic. In any event, support for the Kurds seems to exist among most of Trump’s generals and foreign policy team. So this idea that ‘only’ Democrats want to stay in Syria is a bogus talking point.

        1. Mespo, our generals want to stay. Aren’t they servicemen??

          The Kurds fought with incredible bravery to defeat ISIS. Every western nation owes them a debt of gratitude. The least we can do is keep 2,000 troops in Syria until we’re certain the Kurds are safe. That’s not asking much.

          Furthermore, Trump has put out so many contradictory statements on Syria that it’s very clear he wasn’t thinking when he tweeted his withdrawal plan. Trump was only trying do a favor for Putin. Russia wants the U S out of Syria.

          1. “Trump was only trying do a favor for Putin. Russia wants the U S out of Syria.”

            Another stupid conclusion. Is that why Trump bombed Russian assets? Was he doing another favor for Putin? The debate over Syrian withdrawal has merits on all sides but the stupidity of some of your comments draws the debate into the land of fools.

          2. Mespo, our generals want to stay. Aren’t they servicemen??
            They are and some care about their soldiers and some care about career advancement regardless of their soldiers. Sounds like you align with the latter whose personal agenda trumps lives.

            1. Mespo, to be honest I don’t know what most generals think and I definitely don’t think Peter knows. The most outspoken generals have been in their positions for awhile and got there under former administrations. How do officers advance? They certainly don’t do it by antagonizing the ones that are above them that for all we know aren’t sure which side they are on.

              Then one gets to the question of who wants to stay in Syria. That depends on the policy and the will of our government. The major question is what to do about Iran and then what to do about the Kurds? What would happen if the forces against Iran became more unified and were permitted to do the job they should have done years ago? What would be a general’s reason for staying in Syria? Let’s say when Obama was in office he used our might and threatened the Russians with arming all sorts of people with weapons that could shoot down their planes. Would the Russians have enterred in the fashion they did? Maybe so because under Obama they already learned they could take the Crimea and a portion of the Ukraine. Can we deal with Assad? That is also an open question. We dealt with Gadaffi and then we killed him under Obama so I wonder how anxious Assad is to deal with us. What about the other players like Hezbolla and Hamas two terrorist groups leading the ground war for Iranian advancement. How strong would those groups be today if Obama didn’t give into Iran and provide them with billions of dollars which is used to support state terrorism and build a nuclear weapon?

              We have severe problems that the Trump administration inherited. I’m not upset that he isn’t putting his cards on the table. Both voices are coming out from this administration which push the opponents of Iran together while not committing the US to one policy or the other.. The terrorists are starting to see a US that might not be so friendly to their cause so they are beginning to think twice. That might not change their behavior in the near future but it might change the attitude of the world powers including the EU and China.

              I think Trump has been hamstringed by the Democrats calling for impeachment along with all their other phony claims. That makes our enemies resolve stronger and the likelihood of war greater. The Democrats don’t really care. Their issue is personal power, not the American people or the American family.

          3. Syria’s government has been firmly Russia aligned for decades. There is no point in trying to reverse that. It risks WW3 for no gain.

            Kurds are fine but Kurdistan is not a state. Turkey is a state and a NATO ally. Count what counts not what doesn’t

      1. You do recognize PH that the Middle East comprises other areas beside Syria.

        We’ve been in one contiguous state of war in the Middle East from 1990 to today directly and in other conflicts there going back decades, some times kinetically and others by proxy or covertly. The most recent began with Desert Shield in 1990, Desert Storm 1991, No-fly zones 1992 to 2003. 1993 Somalia, 1996 Operation Desert Strike, 1998 Operation Desert Strike, 2003 to 2011 War in Iraq, 2011 military intervention in Libya, 2014 Intervention in Iraq, and the 2014 Entrance into Syrian Civil War,

        1. Yeah, Darren, it’s called ‘Mission Creep’. Commitments grow over time. Presented as a list they have the ring of tolling bells.

          Some might question if George W needed to invade Iraq. But Saddam Hussein got what ‘he’ deserved. For torching all those oil wells Saddam deserved to hang. That was a crime against the world.

          We want to leave Iraq, of course. And I don’t think our presence is that heavy at the moment. Thanks to the Kurds we didn’t have to fight ISIS in house to house battles throughout Iraq and Syria.

          Regarding Afghanistan, the problem is Pakistan;’ too long of a border’. The time to leave might have been after Bin Laden’s death. We should ask India if they would like to locate army divisions in Afghanistan. India might enjoy a northern frontier on Pakistan.

          1. Yes, yes! Afghanistan for the Indian army. That’ll bring peace and stability.


  5. Memo to Schumer and Pelosi: Please do more joint rebuttals. Americans have not laughed this hard over morons like you two bozos since WaPo declared they were real news


    Trump speech: Twitter pokes fun of Schumer, Pelosi ‘hostage tape,’ ‘American Gothic’ vibe

    Trump delivered his speech alone from behind his desk, while Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer stood next to each other with American flags in the background.

    But it was the two Democrats’ stoic stares and stiff stances that had many Twitter users poking fun and noting some art history references.

    The famous “American Gothic” depicts a woman and man with a pitchfork standing tall in front of a house, and some thought to two lawmakers were shoo-ins for a recreation of it.

    LIVE: Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer respond to Trump’s speech

    — Quoth the Raven (@QTRResearch) January 9, 2019
    American Gothic anyone…

    — Seth Johnson (@SethP_Johnson) January 9, 2019

    thers quickly noticed how Schumer stared right at the camera as Pelosi delivered her remarks – and thought it looked a tad like a “hostage tape.”

    TV tip for Schumer and Pelosi – When on a two shot, look at the person talking, not at the camera. Gives impression of hostage tape.

    — Emily Miller (@EmilyMiller) January 9, 2019
    Post by ToddStarnesFNC.
    He didn’t even seem to blink, some thought.

    If you played a drinking game where you had to drink every time Pelosi and Schumer blinked during this speech, you would be very sober at the end.

    — Seth A. Richardson (@SethARichardson) January 9, 2019
    Schumer taking this “don’t blink” stuff quite literally tonight.

    — Jamie O’Grady 🤔 (@JamieOGrady) January 9, 2019
    Another saw James Bond movie villains.

    Yikes. I like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi but they gotta work on the whole “not looking like villains from the next bond movie” thing next time.

    thers were reminded of their parents lecturing them.

    we’re not mad, we’re just disappointed

    your father and i are going to take turns talking to you now

    — Adam Weinstein (@AdamWeinstein) January 9, 2019
    “We’re not mad, we’re just disappointed.”

    — Erin For President (@erinscafe) January 9, 2019
    Statler and Waldorf from the Muppets even made an appearance.

    Live feed of Schumer and Pelosi.

    — jon gabriel (@exjon) January 9, 2019
    As expected, the meme will probably live on for the days to come.

    Post-presidential address Twitter is all Schumer and Pelosi memes

    — Julia Manchester (@JuliaManch) January 9, 2019

    1. 😊😄 Estovir, I thought they did look a bit strange when I watch their rebuttal; dogs can interpret staring as aggression, and our dog was about ready to pounce at the screen😉.
      Thanks for posting the humorous comments/ reviews of their appearance.

        The late Fred Thompson had a pretty good career as an actor, both during and after his time in the Senate.
        Last night, Schumer and Pelosi’s performance could be as an audition tape if they’re looking for roles in certain types of films.


    Trump’s address last night pulled focus from developments in the Mueller Probe. Yesterday we learned:

    Paul Manafort, Trump’s onetime Campaign Manager, shared Republican polling data with suspected Russian spy, Konstantin Kilmnik, a close Putin ally.

    Natialia Veselniskaya was charged with Obstruction of Justice. She is the Russian lawyer who was present at that mysterious Trump Tower meeting attended by Manafort, Don Junior and Jared Kushner in July of 2016.

    On Monday a Federal Judge in Washington admonished lawyers of Concord Management, a Russian company charged in the Mueller Probe. Said lawyers were attempting to present a defense of ‘bias’. But Judge Dabney Friedrich, a Trump appointee, literally told the lawyers to “knock it off”.

    These developments were largely overshadowed by Trump’s address to the nation. And that is more than likely no coincidence. Trump knows he must orchestrate some major distractions to keep the public from noticing how threatened his fortunes are.

    1. Peter Shill blathers “Trump knows he must orchestrate some major distractions to keep the public from noticing how threatened his fortunes are.”

      meanwhile the newly appointed Federal Judges are being placed handsomely on their benches to protect Americans from the Government.

      RBG….time to step down from SCOTUS and accept the natural progression of life take place.

      Veselnitskaya was charged in a case unrelated to the Trump Tower meeting.
      It’s unlikely that she will return to the U.S. to face charges.
      U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara ( SDNY) objected to Veselnitskaya’s re-entry to the U.S. and did not want her to get the necessary visa.
      It’s not certain why the DOJ overruled him and allowed her to come back to New York. She also met with Fusion GPS’s Glenn Simpson right before, and right after the Trump Tower meeting when she returned to New York.
      There is video of her in Congress, sitting at a table next to someone giving testimony.
      She also hosted the screening of a pro-Russian, anti-Magnitski-Act film in DC, which was attended by Congressional staffers.
      I think the timeline of both coincided with the visit that included the Trump Tower meeting, but I’d have to recheck the dates of when she was present during the Congressional testimony, and when she hosted the film.
      Despite a known history of advocating for Russia, she was given a great deal of latitude despite never registering under FARA requirements.
      These “irregularities” may or may not have been ( or will be ) investigated, IF there is an interest in finding out who and why at the DOJ interceded for her re-entry, the nature of her relationship with Glenn Simpson, her open activities in violation of FATA, etc.

      1. Tom almost all of Peter’s statements are made in a way to distort the truth. That makes him about the biggest liar on the blog.

        “Paul Manafort, Trump’s onetime Campaign Manager, shared Republican polling data with suspected Russian spy, Konstantin Kilmnik, a close Putin ally.”

        This is another example (I’ll skip dealing with the rest>). Firstly none of Manaforts activities that are under question had to do with his acting as campaign manager. Secondly, it has been agreed upon by both sides that the Russians didn’t impact the voting process. Peter the Shill makes it seem like this was a Trump plot when this has nothing to do with Trump and we don’t even know if the information discussed was public or not. Peter acts as if more is known than is known and as if Trump was criminally involved. He is a bold faced liar who can only deceive those that choose to be deceived..

      2. Tom, on any given day there a thousands of Russians running around New York and L.A. My neighborhood in Hollywood is full of East Europeans. I’m sure there are many among them who shouldn’t be in the country. It’s not like Velenitskaya should have stood out and been personally intercepted by Obama himself. We only know in retrospect about the Trump Tower meeting.

        1. I would say that when a suspected agent of the Kremlin appears at a table during Congressional testimony, when she hosts the showing of a film against the Magnitski Act, when she attracts the attention of the US Attorney SDNY to the degree that he wants to deny her entry, when she’s involved in the legal defense team of a Russian company facing charges in the U.S…..
          I would say that all of these factors, and then some, would likely make her stand out more than the Russians in Peter Hill’s neighborhood.
          He must have made one hell of a store detective.

          1. Thank you, Tom, that’s cool. All those things you list make her more intriguing. Perhaps Robert Mueller seeks to learn how Natalia wound up at that hearing. I’m sure that will turn up in transcript form. You should want a probe.

      3. more phony process crimes, DOJ intimidation, and show trial style litigation


        1. Isn’t it amazing how all the wingnut wackjobs all the sudden “luvs them some Russia?” But, nothing has changed, except for the fact that the day glo bozo is busy selling out the country on his kneepads for Uncle Putin.

          this is to “well, so what if he let hookers pee-pee on his face?” anon

          1. “this is to “well, so what if he let hookers pee-pee on his face?” anon”

            Marky, is that what you are hoping Hannity will do to you?

        Many of the details of the connection between Glenn Simpson and Veselnitskaya have been known for over a year.
        Their assistance in the defense of the Russian firm Prevezon has been covered a bit by reporters, going back at least as far as articles published in 2017.
        As the U.S. Attorney SDNY at the time, Preet Bharara’s involvement in the Prevezon case and awareness of Veselnitskaya’s activities probably accounted for his attempt to block her from entering the U.S. in June 2016.
        It’s not clear exactly who, what individual(s), in the DOJ overruled Bharara.

  7. As someone who grew up in and around southeastern New Mexico and El Paso, Texas, I have refrained from commenting on the border wall issue because I find the notion absurd. However, given Mr. Trump’s reference to walls around the Vatican as an analogous structure, I thought I ought to offer a few suggestions on design deficiencies which should be brought to the prompt attention of our commander-in-chief. So, in no particular order:

    1. None of the wall designs I have seen include wall walks. That omission almost wholly negates the effectiveness of catapults by requiring that they be utilized without the ability to see the enemy. Likewise the absence of walks precludes the deployment of archers at strategic points.
    2. The designs do not provide for meurtrieres and machicolations to facilitate the effective use of heated tar and boiling oil.
    3. The walls proposed contain no loop holes for crossbows.

    I would also add that spiked metal walls require more maintenance and render our defensive forces visible. Alternatively, I suggest that spiked metal poles be installed at various points outside the wall to mount the heads of the defeated as a warning to others who entertain any thoughts of invading our kingdom.

    I welcome additional suggestions by other readers.

    1. Mike:

      “I welcome additional suggestions by other readers.”
      First, I suggest you throw your doors open at midnight and advertise that fact in the Baker Correctional Institute newsletter. If we need walls to protect us, then you don’t need walls to protect you. And for all those family members of Americans murdered by illegals you so smugly dismiss, I suggest you apologize.

      1. mespo, I have not expressed the bases for my opposition to Trump’s wall. Perhaps i should. However, after seven years I would have thought you knew me better than to denounce my views as either an endorsement of criminality or, what’s worse, moral indifference to its victims.

        1. Mike, you are an intelligent fellow and one that I can respect no matter which side you are on. Why don’t you express your opinion on a barrier between Mexico and the US where that barrier is able to be built. The crazies are deflecting. There are many different types of barriers and it may be that some are more suitable in some locations than others. We also have an eminent domain problem and we also need many other types of protection on the border. Why don’t you comment on a generic barrier and skip the political aspects of Trump’s Wall or Schumer and Pelosi’s political visions of a wall.

          Walls and fences have worked all over and in many differernt time frames.

          Mending Wall by Frost (fences make good neighbors) is something we should consider. We should also consider mending our politcal walls. Trump is a result of government NOT responding to the middle class working families of the nation.

          1. Allen, since I haven’t had a dose of opprobrium in some time, I have started a draft of a column on the wall. I love Robert Frost, and Mending Wall has long been one of my favorite poems. But note that it is Frost’s neighbor who says, “Good fences make good neighbors,” and actually repeats it in the last line of the poem. Frost disagrees. “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,” he begins. He later adds, “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know what I was walling in or walling out, and to whom I was like to give offense.” The wall is not necessary in Frost’s view. He says, “There where it is we do not need the wall,” because “My apple trees will never get across and eat the cones under his pines.” His neighbor will not budge. He is a man who “moves in darkness” and “will not go behind his father’s saying.” Frost understands that walls are sometimes practically useful, but he also understands that they are barriers, with all that that implies. A wall defies the order of nature, “that wants it down.” That, at any rate, is how I read it.

            1. Mike, I think there are various opinions of what Frost actually meant and unbelieveably as it might sound don’t particularly like walls. Frost says in the poem (and you quoted it) “My apple trees will never get across and eat all the cones under his pines.” That is a reason he gives for not needing a wall. He is not saying a wall should never exist. In the case of our southern border the illegals are eating the work product of American citizens and of those immigrants that came here legally along with keeping out those immigrants that wish to follow American law and be Americans.

              We know “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know what I was walling in or walling out”. Who is being walled out? Those that are breaking our laws. Someone is eating Frosts apples. I think that is where two parties get together and recognize each others sovereignty over the land they own. If that cannot be accomplished then walls unfortunately must be built. Take note that Trump is talking about a southern wall not a northern one because the northern border which is a type of barrier is for the most part appropriatey treated by those heading south. That is not true for many that are in the south and heading north.

              If you had a farm and a stranger’s cattle was eating what you produced would you put a barrier around your farmland?

    2. Mike, you are one of my favorite leftists. You have a sense of humor, but nowhere in your comments did you talk about walls that have actually been erected to protect nations such as Israel and homes. Those walls work. Not perfect, but they work nontheless.

    3. Excellent points, and an even better presentation. Facts are a bitch.

      to Mike Appleton

      1. Marky, though you may not realize it Mike Appleton wasn’t providing facts as much as he was humor and sarcasm. That is hard for your mind to understand so maybe it is best if you go back to thinking about Hannity.

        1. So sorry for your mental fog and confusion. I quote Mike — To whit: “3. The walls proposed contain no loop holes for crossbows.” This known to most mentally-abled persons as a “fact.” Further, Oxford has a definition for you, which states: “A thing that is known or proved to be true.” Pro tip: “now go get your shine box.”

          this is to “damn, he did it again, mommy” allan / allen

          1. I guess Marky you didn’t get the gist of the discussion between Mike and me. In a way by not understanding Mike’s humor you demean him which enhances his presence.

            Go back to your Hannity dolls.

    4. a meurtrier is for aimed arrow fire if I am not mistaken, not oil or tar, an arrowslit.
      We don’t need those in the anti-invasion wall but if you want them, OK!

  8. Today when nancy said NO the Democratic Party fled the United States for its true grounding in Cuba. Hail, hail the gangs all here.
    Trump needs to call an emergency and use military funding to pay for the steel buffer and troops at the border. You folks need to look at what is happening in Europe. Hell in a hand basket. The media ignored the sequence of talking at the event today and just pummelled Trump with BS. When Nancy said No then Trump should have left and did leave.
    I just left the Democratic Party for good.

  9. While there might be presidential authority to divert funds in the event of an emergency, there must actually be a real emergency. Losing the support of Republican lawmakers and support of his base because he can’t deliver on a campaign promise does not constitute an emergency. Being unable to bully Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi into submission does not constitute an emergency. Performing poorly in a phony Oval Office address to the nation, which was really nothing more than a campaign commercial, does not constitute a national emergency.

    Courts will see thorough this ruse, as Harry Truman learned when he tried to take over the steel mills, because there is no actual emergency. Facts establish that illegal border crossings have been steadily decreasing over the past 10 years. Most drugs come into this country via legal portals, including smuggling via trucks, airplanes, submarines, boats and other vehicles as well as in the mails. The most-lethal drugs responsible for overdoses, including fentanyl, come here via China, not Mexico. Most illegals present in this country are here due to staying over on a legal visa. Statistically, U.S. citizens commit more violent crimes than illegals do by far. A wall will not address any of these issues and is neither cost-effective nor actually effective in saving America from crime or illegal drugs. Most importantly, the majority of Americans do not want their tax money wasted in this manner.

    Trump and his ego will force a showdown and he will lose. Badly. As he should. Hopefully this fake crisis he is trying to create because he can’t get his way will be the end of him and Pence.

  10. Anyway, enough of this “look over here” nonsense the day glo bozo is trying to distract true Americans with. Here’s the real story out today, as commented on by Max Boot in today’s Post. Boot–as you must know–is an authentic Republican. The last two sentences are harbingers of where this sordid tale is heading–for those who recall their presidential history. But, what is that ticking sound? Enjoy!

    The collusion case against Trump just got a lot stronger
    By Max Boot
    This column has been updated.
    We interrupt the breathless coverage of President Trump’s deceptive and unconvincing Oval Office address on
    the border wall to bring you some genuinely big news: The collusion case against the president’s campaign,
    already strong, is getting even stronger.
    Attorneys for Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman, inadvertently included a big reveal in a
    court filing on Tuesday through their clumsy failure to properly redact key portions. They admitted that during
    the 2016 campaign Manafort and his longtime associate Konstantin Kilimnik, who the FBI has said has ties to
    Russian intelligence, discussed a peace plan for Ukraine and that Manafort also shared with him political
    polling data.
    Peace plan? Where have we heard that before? Oh, that’s right: Trump’s attorney, Michael Cohen, Trump’s
    former Mafia-linked, Russian American business associate Felix Sater and Ukrainian politician Andrii
    Artemenko conspired after the 2016 election to present a peace plan to incoming national security adviser
    Michael Flynn, who was himself suspiciously friendly to the Russians. The plan would have legitimated
    Russian annexation of Crimea and lifted sanctions on Russia. In other words, it would have been the payoff
    that Russian President Vladimir Putin was seeking from his well-documented intervention on behalf of
    candidate Trump — and it could easily have come to fruition if the Russian election interference had not
    become a scandal. So now we know that there was yet another senior figure in Trump World who was plotting
    to sell out Ukraine to the Russians.
    But the even more significant part of the Tuesday revelations concerns the polling data that Manafort allegedly
    shared with Kilimnik. Why would an individual with ties to Russian intelligence need polling data on the U.S.
    election? There is only on reason I can think of: to help direct the covert social-media propaganda campaign
    that Russian intelligence was running on Trump’s behalf. The Russians reached 126 million people via
    Facebook alone and millions more on other social-media platforms. Combined with Russia’s theft and
    strategically timed release of Democratic Party emails, this most likely swung an exceedingly close election —
    decided by fewer than 80,000 votes in three states — to Trump.
    One of the central mysteries about the Russian campaign is how the Kremlin could have been so skillful in
    targeting American voters, focusing especially on African Americans, Bernie Sanders supporters and other
    groups who might otherwise have been expected to vote for Hillary Clinton. When political campaigns run
    1/9/2019 The collusion case against Trump just got a lot stronger – The Washington Post 2/3
    advertising, they typically rely on detailed voter data to guide their efforts. Did the Kremlin do its own polling?
    It didn’t have to, if Manafort was providing the Russians with poll numbers.
    According to the New York Times, “Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private
    polling firm working for the campaign,” and Manafort asked Kilimnik to pass the data to two pro-Russian
    oligarchs in Ukraine for whom Manafort had previously worked. The Trump campaign chairman had also
    worked for the Russian oligarch Oleg V. Deripaska. The Post has previously reported that Manafort, who was
    running the Trump campaign for no pay, offered Deripaska, whom he owed as much as $17 million, “private
    briefings” on the 2016 campaign in order to “get whole.” We don’t know whether Manafort was technically a
    Russian agent, but this is classic espionage tradecraft: Compromise a person of influence, put him at your
    mercy, and then force him to do your bidding.
    Actually, there is evidence to indicate that the data-sharing might have gone both ways. Special counsel Robert
    S. Mueller III has revealed that the Russians stole not only emails but also data analytics from the Democratic
    Party. A few weeks after this theft in September 2016, the Trump campaign shifted its “data-driven” strategy to
    focus on the very states where it would win the election. Maybe that’s just a coincidence. Or maybe not.
    There is a name for cooperation between an American political campaign and a foreign government. It’s
    commonly called collusion. Or, if you prefer the legal term, conspiracy.
    The revelation about Manafort sharing data with Kilimnik is the most significant evidence of
    collusion/conspiracy since Michael Cohen’s Nov. 29 guilty plea on charges of lying to Congress to conceal the
    Trump Organization’s active pursuit during the 2016 campaign, with help from Putin aides, of a deal to build a
    Trump Tower in Moscow. That, in turn, was the most damning evidence to emerge since the New York Times
    revealed that there had been a meeting at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, between the campaign high
    command and a Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, promising dirt on Hillary Clinton. (Veselnitskaya’s
    deep links to the Kremlin have just been confirmed in a new court filing.)
    These are only the headline revelations, of course. There is a lot more there there. I surveyed the state of the
    evidence six months ago in this column. The Moscow Project of the Center for American Progress reports that
    “we have learned of 97 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia linked operatives, including at least 28
    meetings,” and that the Trump campaign tried to cover up all of them.
    If this is what it appears to be, it is the biggest scandal in American history — an assault on the very
    foundations of our democracy in which the president’s own campaign is deeply complicit. There is no longer
    any question whether collusion occurred. The only questions that remain are: What did the president know?
    And when did he know it?

    1. They say that reasoning by analogy is weak. But I just can’t resist the following weak analogy:

      Manafort is to Trump as Tony Rezko was to Rod Blagojevich.

      This [sanctions] thing is [expletive deleted] Golden [strike that] Leaden.

  11. The Democrats aren’t going to compromise, because foreigners who want to illegally enter the U.S. are more important to them than American citizens. Thus Trump needs to exercise his emergency powers and just get it done.

  12. How can Trump be deepening the divide when he hasn’t changed his position? We have tremendous changes in the positions of Pelosi and Schumer happening after Trump became President. What we are seeing is that duo pushing the tectonic plates further and further apart in an attempt to isolate Trump.

  13. at some point it may take lethal countermeasures to prevent aggressive border jumpers. that would slow them down. its unfortunate that it comes to that but life is full of suffering and it always has been.

    one way or another walls will come, guaranteed. maybe not trump and maybe not soon. maybe the US will collapse under migration invasion and then the successor regime will be a lot smarter, who knows.

      1. much like “womens rights are human rights”, “pro-choice”, reproductuve health”, “hate speech”, and the many other Orwellian double speak our culture endures

        What has changed in the last several years is the “mass migrant” groups “flooding” or, if you like, “storming” the border.
        This trend seemed to start, or at least really accelerated, in about 2014.
        Without getting into total annual numbers of those attempting illegal entry into the U.S., the very large groups, or “caravans”, either held up in Mexico or caught trying to enter illegally are causing problems for both countries.

      3. I suggest you go there. Camp in a tent for a week and report your fantasy back to us. I hope you interact with some Cartel, MS-13, or TB infused migrants.

        1. CAT,..
          Why would anyone actually need to go there?
          Certainly the media outlets would seek out, and report on, Cartel, M-13 members, etc., if they existed.😏
          In virtually every story I’ve seen covered by the reports from Mexico on the caravans, it’s either a widowed mother with toddlers fleeing for her safety, or something sinilar.
          I don’t doubt that those cases exist, but certainly the MSM would really try 😉😊😀 to investigate and interview gangbangers, too, wouldn’t they?

      4. a few DPRK refugees is a major problem for china that locks them up
        China won’t grant work permits to “legal” foreigners let alone tolerate many “illegals”

        China has massive detention centers for Muslims in Xinjiang and it is alleged by some human rights activists to be a massive slow moving cultural genocide of the Uighurs.

        and yet the whiners in the Democrat party can only pick on our own country and our President

        maybe because they take a lot of money from Chicoms like old Bill Clinton did too?

        1. Or maybe, just maybe, just as few American Patriots concern themselves with the city council elections in Moldovia, they limit their efforts to rescuing our own beloved country rather than ineffectually busy-bodying about whatever mainland China is up to?

          this is to “damn, hannity didn’t issue a thought about that” kurtzie

    1. Mr. Kurtz: the U.S. Military is not allowed to shoot anyone on U.S. soil, so just whom is going to carry out the “lethal countermeasures”, anyway?

      As to state and local police, they are not empowered to employ lethal force for a non-lethal situation. In other words, they cannot shoot someone with the intention of killing them when the subject has no weapon nor have they engaged in any aggressive behavior toward the law enforcement officer. Merely jumping over a wall does not entitle any state law enforcement official to shoot to kill.

      As I have previously proposed, a simple and more cost-effective means to control illegal migration is to severely punish and heavily fine anyone hiring an illegal. It’s not at all hard to find out someone is here illegally. There should be a government hotline to immediately vet a Social Security Number and state identification. It should be illegal to hire anyone who cannot produce proof of being here legally. They also could be tracked via schools and hospitals. In addition to a very heavy fine, an employer should also be forced to pay the cost of prosecution and deportation. After a first offense, there should be mandatory jail time. Subsequent offenses should draw business license revocations. These measures would dry up the jobs. If there were no jobs, they would stop coming here. Problem is, most of the major hotels, restaurants, nanny services, housekeeper services, landscaping and other low-skill employers are the ones who hire illegals. They don’t complain when they aren’t paid overtime, and are less likely to file workers comp claims. They won’t report you for not paying minimum wage. Most of these business owners are Republicans. That’s where the real problem and the solution lie, but folks like you who want to hate the migrants see Trump’s phallic symbol wall as the answer.

      1. To answer your question, border patrol personnel making aimed fire into aggressive invaders located in Mexico will suffice.

        this will anger the Mexican government but they are approaching a failed narco-state anyways

        I have no problem with stiff punishments for people who knowlingly employ illegals. i observe major chicken processor and Democrat donor and Friend of Bill Clinton Tyson foods had many penalties for hiring illegals. i wonder if they ever stopped. probably, actually, employers are required to file a lot of paperwork now that was not required a decade ago. so that problem is perhaps less than it used to be.

        also, a lot the things you say however are not employment they are contract relationships. i am not going to bother to figure out if every tree trimmer in the phone book is a legal immigrant or not and it seems like half are mexicans. i am not going to vet every chinese restaurant i visit either. the stuff about nannies is not the major issue.

        rather than make every American consumer an informant, instead aim at the chokepoints where the problem can be efficiently addressed

      2. “folks like you who want to hate the migrants see Trump’s phallic symbol wall as the answer”.
        A wall really isn’t “a phallic symbol”; those folks in Natacha’s imagination would more likely see the Trump Monument, formerly known as the Washington Monument, as a phallic symbol.

        1. Flaccid said, “A wall really isn’t ‘a phallic symbol'”

          You’re assuming that Trump’s wall has adequate erectile function.

          Guess again.

          1. Second guess: Never assume that a phallic symbol has adequate erectile function.

            A frog is a phallic symbol even if it never turns into a prince.

  14. Wall, schmall. A picket fence of steel slats will do nicely.

    there is nothing wrong about people coming to our borders in hope of finding a new life. Doing it legally and orderly are both understandable and encouraged. Doing it illegally and disorderly are both wrong and pose significant risk to our nation.

    Call the emergency order, President Trump, and let Pelosi melt when she realizes her usual scare mongering tactics failed hugely. Given the disgust Americans have with the MSM, it’s time to pull the plug on all of them

    1. there is nothing wrong about people coming to our borders in hope of finding a new life.

      There is nothing wrong with them staying at home, either. Rates of entry during quiescent historical periods (pre 1840 and 1924 to 1965) generally ran to about 0.125% of the extant population per year. That translates into 400,000 settler-immigrants per year, quite enough to make up for any fertility deficits we are suffering. The notion we cannot get along without 1 million legal immigrants plus several hundred thousand turnstile-jumpers is just tommyrot.

    2. Haha. Excellent. More tomfoolery from the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make. I regret to inform you “debra”, that authentic American patriots do not have disgust for the media, which is an important component of any free society; a fact which is enshrined in the United States Constitution. You might want to read it sometime. Pro tip: hannity thinks you’re a fool, too.

      this is to “but ever-body in frog-swaller B.F.E. thinks just like I do and we luvs us some MAGA caps” debbie

      1. Well Mark M if you can’t rebut Debra’s argument just say so. Insults further diminish your standing around here and you’re nano sized as it is.

        1. More awesomeness! I’m just mildly amused that people who have such ill-informed, near-antediluvian core beliefs have been able to survive to (apparent?) adulthood. As I’m quite certain you’re aware, there’s only one person who frequents these haunts whose opinion I cater to or consult; and I can assure you that person is quite satisfied by my performance here–in fact, I can attest that he’s “tickled pink” by the jewels of wisdom which I’ve been so humbly blessed to have been able to impart to you, and your ilk. I consider it akin to pro bono work as I educate the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make exactly how real people think about the real world. Pro tip: Just as MLB has its minor leagues for those aren’t quite prepared for the show, those who can’t make it in the big city can always safely lurk and hang on in the hillbilly sticks…

          to mespo

        1. Fun! I regret to inform you, sir, that hording canned peaches and hiding hannity-endorsed commemorative silver coins in your rectum don’t make you a “survivalist.” That hat looks good on you though. Pro tip: Now hurry and order up some more cammo underwear.

          this is to “but I also ordered a book on close-quarter combat” kurtzie

          1. oh, i been a survivalist since I was a kid, back in the organization formerly called the Boy Scouts of America many decades ago

            but I don’t horde, I only have what i need, mostly just my wits, just mens sana in corpore sano; but if i need help i have friends and family, you know….


        2. “we’re ready mark are you?”

          Kurtz, Marky is waiting for Hannity. His fetish over Hannity has driven him nutty and repetitive.

      2. out here in the perimeter mark we;re all wearing red hats and carrying bowie knives and toting rifles in the gun rack in the back of old beat up ford ranger trucks. out here we is stoned immaculate

        “The Wasp (Texas Radio And The Big Beat)”

        I wanna tell you ’bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
        Comes out of the Virginia swamps
        Cool and slow with plenty of precision
        With a back beat narrow and hard to master

        Some call it heavenly in its brilliance
        Others, mean and rueful of the Western dream
        I love the friends I have gathered together on this thin raft
        We have constructed pyramids in honor of our escaping
        This is the land where the Pharaoh died

        The Negroes in the forest brightly feathered
        They are saying, “Forget the night.
        Live with us in forests of azure.
        Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
        Out here we is stoned – immaculate.”

        Listen to this, and I’ll tell you ’bout the heartache
        I’ll tell you ’bout the heartache and the loss of God
        I’ll tell you ’bout the hopeless night
        The meager food for souls forgot
        I’ll tell you ’bout the maiden with wrought iron soul

        I’ll tell you this
        No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

        I’ll tell you ’bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
        Soft-driven, slow and mad, like some new language

        Now, listen to this, and I’ll tell you ’bout the Texas
        I’ll tell you ’bout the Texas Radio
        I’ll tell you ’bout the hopeless night
        Wandering the Western dream
        Tell you ’bout the maiden with wrought iron soul

        1. I’m from Texas, and whatever the hell you’re dreamin’ about ain’t it.

          this is to “when I get into the ‘shine, Ize likes to quote songs played on white power radio” anon

          1. You must never heard of Jim Morrison and the Doors.

            What do you listen to pray tell

            1. I apologize. I’ve never “gotten” the Doors, so I’m not familiar with any of their songs. I retract the “white power” nugget.

              1. Perhaps to better “get” The Doors, see The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley.

                Title from poem excerpt by William Blake:

                “If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro’ narrow chinks of his cavern.”

Comments are closed.