“Sharpiegate”: Trump Ridiculed For Altered Hurricane Forecast

Fox News joined other networks yesterday in ridiculing a truly bizarre moment from the Oval Office where Trump appeared to show a forecast map of Hurricane Dorian with a hastily drawn extension into Alabama. Trump previously claimed that Alabama was in the hurricane’s projected path and was widely contradicted (including by federal officials). He then showed up with the map that seemed to have an extension written by a Sharpie. It was another bizarre misstep that expanded a minor story into a major embarrassment. Trump had to personally deny that he took a Sharpie to the altered map in what people are humorously calling “Sharpiegate.

The apparent Sharpie job was no clumsy and amateurish that one had to wonder if someone on the staff was being passive aggressive and intentionally trying to make Trump look ridiculous. Anyone looking at that altered map would have said that it looked absurdly altered. That obviously did not include Trump himself.

Trump’s initial misstatement over Alabama was not particularly serious. Once could see how the mistake could have been made. Trump could have just let it drop or even, perish the thought, admitted that he was wrong. Parts of Alabama was likely to get heavy rain but was not really in the path. Trump however doubled down.

Trump had already objected to the critics over his Alabama claim and returned to the subject by raising the National Weather Service’s early forecasts of Hurricane Dorian’s path. In what was clearly an effort to quiet the criticism, Trump declared “We got lucky in Florida, very, very lucky indeed. We had actually our original chart was that it was going to be hitting Florida directly… And that would have affected a lot of other states.”

Fox correctly reported that this was not the map issued by the government. In discussing the scene with Bret Baier, John Roberts noted that there was never a forecast track into Alabama and “You can see somebody with a Sharpie or some other writing instruments added a little bit to the cone of uncertainty, which was not a part of the official forecast, which included the Florida panhandle and parts of Alabama.”

This is yet another example of how this White House and this President is ignoring a fundamental rule of life and politics: when you are in a hole, stop digging.

1,082 thoughts on ““Sharpiegate”: Trump Ridiculed For Altered Hurricane Forecast”

  1. Some more AllanSpin, below:

    “In any event from a 6:1 ratio anonymous has pushed his numbers up to 10-13 doing precisely the thing he was complaining about while he whines about it.”

    Nope.

    Here are the numbers:

    32 comments by Allan
    49 comments by Anonymous — and there are at least two anonymous posters

    You do the math.

    Does Allan tell the truth? Nope.

    The proof is in the pudding and the answer is clearly “NO.”

    Allan is simply getting a taste of his own medicine. Gee, life is so unfair in AllanWorld.

  2. Paul, this information requires patience to obtain in detail but I took a quick look and noted a neurosurgeon in Aspen. What he does or what hospital he practices at I don’t know and as mentioned before the air ambulance is ~20= minutes to Denver. But this is not really the issue I brought up. The issue was time from site to hospital. If there is an avoidable significant delay (over two hours in the case under discussion) then one has to think of a sytem failure of the nature I was talking about. That can occurr anywhere.

    In any event from a 6:1 ratio anonymous has pushed his numbers up to 10-13 doing precisely the thing he was complaining about while he whines about it.

    As a point of interest, early in the days of CAT Scans it was said that the Metropolitan area of NYC had more CAT scanners than all of Canada. I never checked the numbers out but we have an immense number of CAT Scanning machines.

    1. Allan – I checked out your neurosurgeon and you are right there is one in the Aspen area. Here is Dr. Sugar’s bio

      Biography
      Dr. Fred Sugar, MD is a neurosurgery specialist in Aspen, CO and has been practicing for 48 years. They graduated from University Of Maryland School Medicine in 1965 and specialize in neurosurgery.

      Two things should jump out at you immediately. 😉

      1. Paul, he looks like he is in his late 70’s which is probably the number one thing you are looking for but we don’t know much more about the practice or how long he was in Aspen. Take note I clearly mentioned that “What he does or what hospital he practices at I don’t know”. The second is the “they” when there is only “he”. Maybe he had a partner but these sites are frequenlty with error. However, none of this pertains to the question of a system failure of the nature I discussed. If it did pertain I would find it more interesting but it doesn’t.

        1. Allan – sorry I have been out to the art gallery all day. I am in my mid-70s and I would not allow me to operate on anyone. He is older than me and I sure as hell would not let him operate on me.

          1. I understand how you feel Paul. Anyhow his age or existence has no relationship to the system failure under discussion.

            What art gallary were you at? How close are you to Santa Fe? They have (or had) some very interesting art galleries.

            1. Allan – I went to the Phoenix Art Museum, which was having a display of Asian Art and a Phillip Glass concert.

                1. I should have mentioned that a good deal of his work sounds like some of the disputes on this list….repetition (chordal).😀

                    1. Some, but I believe he is a minimalist who takes advantage of repeating a phrase or a singular chord which I think is frequently repeated 4 times. But some of his music sounds New Age and other music from the masters.

                      Did you like him?

                    2. Allan – the only music by Phillip Glass that I like is that used in The Thin Blue Line. Other than that, I am not a fan. In this case, the concert was designed to help people meditate. It may just be me, but Phillip Glass does not make me relax or meditate.

                    3. Paul, I don’t recall the music from the Thin Blue Line but I do recall some of his strong discordant piano music that I liked, however, I have a better understanding of piano music than a lot of other forms of music. I’ll bet if the concert was designed for “meditation” it was more the type of music that I thought sounded a bit New Age.

                  1. “a horrible surprise.”

                    Paul, That you remember him early in life when you thought he was an old man?😀

    2. “precisely the thing he was complaining about” is more likely a blowhard and liar repeating the same idiotic lines.
      And Dr. Alan “I’m-always-right- regardless-of -the -facts” Blowhard’s history of as a major participant in running up a thread’s number of comments by putting out inaccurate claims and baseless accusations that should be shot down by 10-to-1 margin.
      That, and his “I must have the first and last word” policy.
      But nice try on playing the outnumbered, bullied victim. That’s another neat little passive-aggressive ploy that Alan loves.

  3. Allan says, “…over the past several hours anonymous accounts for about 2/3 of the posting on sharpiegate.”

    Hmm…. We have one “Allan” and at least two anonymous posters.

    Who says that Allan-Jethro isn’t good at math.

    1. Anonymous at 1:07 PM,
      And only one of the 4-5 people who have commented here were involved in the previous record-setting thread with 826 comments.
      That would be Dr. Allan Blowhard.

      1. Dhlii finally had to cut Allan off, as we know. That’s the only thing that works with Mr, “I WILL have the last word.”

        QED

  4. No one ever claimed that CAT Scans can “cure a brain bleed”, you nitwit.
    No one. No matter how many times it is explained to you that ” lack of imaging” is a contraindication to performing burr hole surgery, no matter how many times the meaning of the word ‘contraindication” is explained to you, you keep making the same stupid comment to that CAT Scans can not “cure a brain bleed”
    You are even dumber than I realized, and I have no doubt that trying to explain anything to moron like you is just a further waste of time.
    It’s unfortunate that there is not a remedial comments section for those with “special needs” like Allan Blowhard.

    1. ‘He is pushing for a record of postings ‘ says anonymous who keeps racking up posting numbers. Good for him. That is the only thing he does well. I’ll answer your last 4 this morning plus the last 2 from yesterday for a 6:1 posting ratio with the winner being the crybaby loser anonymous.

      When posed with the problem of a patient “dying” before the CAT Scan is able to be done anonymous says one can’t try a burr hole because of contradictions even if thought beneficial. What a fool. A contraindication exists if there is a better course of action to save a life. He believes that while the patient is dying instead of preventing the “death” occurring right in front of him he has to permit death to occur while he first obtains medical records and interviews the family members. …And wasting even more time anonymous would probably advise brushing one’s teeth and shining one’s shoes before interviewing the family which of course is done before the procedure that is immediately required to save a life.

      Anonymous is dumber than a pile of bricks. Anyone trained in CPR knows that one doesn’t stop CPR to get records and interview family members. They also know that when time is of the essence a lot of things normally done are held off until the needed treatment is provided to prevent immediate death.

      Go back to your teething ring anonymous. You will never be able to resurrect your integrity or intellect of your prior remarks.

      1. You are an extremely stupid and foolish individual, Alan.
        I guess you have your own reasons as to why you are so determined to keep proving it.

        1. Zero content from a guy that has two legs and two arms but nothing inside the garbage pail that is on top of his shouders. (funny Monty Python skit just a few posts earlier courtesy Mespo).

          Everything anonymous wrote appeared as if it were copied from the net by one that could not comprehend what he was reading and one that has no common sense. In an immediate life threatening emergency one acts as quickly as possible and doesn’t stop to get his nails done.

          You are a loser.

          1. You are an extremely and foolish individual, Alan.
            There are compelling reasons why doctors rely on CAT Scans and other forms of imaging to get a correct diagnosis.
            Dr. Alan Blowhard, with perfect 20/20 hindsight, can reliably give after -the fact diagnoses without any imagining.
            And he is able to even do this in cases where it is contraindicated to proceed without imaging.
            Real medical professionals in the real world don’t have that advantage.

            1. Extreme stupid and foolish individual, Alan.
              I inadvertently left out the word stupid in my last comment, and I sure did not want to deny him the credit for displaying his stupidity.

            2. “There are compelling reasons why doctors rely on CAT Scans and other forms of imaging to get a correct diagnosis.”

              Of course doctors rely on tests and scans. What type of fool are you? However, where time is of the essence they don’t get a CAT Scan from a different hospital while wasting over 2 hours of time. Sometimes even in this modern world doctors have to rely on their training and experience rather than scans and blood tests. People like you have to follow simple and specific directions getting confused if they are not spelled out. I understand your inability to manage difficult complex problems. Stay away from them and wear a helmet to protect what remains in your upstairs compartment.

              4 posts on sharpiegate by anonymous. That is a 4:1 ration from the king of whiners that whine about too many postings.

              1. What type of fool keeps repeating that CAT Scans don’t “cure brain bleeds” (duh), and claims that those treating her might as well have been “doing her nails”?
                Allen keeps asking the wrong questions.That tactic does not mask the fact that he is a moron, but you gotta give him credit for trying.
                And trying, and trying.

                1. “Allen keeps asking the wrong questions.”

                  YES

                  “…he is a moron,”

                  YES

                  “but you gotta give him credit for trying.
                  And trying, and trying.”

                  NO

      2. Not all doctors can tell if a patient is “dying” or in a life threatening situation without making a diagnosis.
        That diagnosis often requires imaging, whether via CAT Scan, MRI, or regular X-Rays.
        When proceeding with a procedure is contraindicated for lack of imaging, that is significant.
        But the for the ones who went to the same medical school as Dr. Allan Blowhard, none of the above applies.

        1. Anonymous, you really get bent out of shape easily. Go to anger management classes and then learn how to count, 3:1 tonight. I won’t delve presently into your artless thoughts regarding medical care.

          1. Actually, I don’t “get bend out of shape” all that easily.
            There are special cases when an obnoxious, stupid, lying Gasbag like Dr. Alan Blowhard provokes a strong reaction, but as I said, Dr. Alan is a “special case”.

            1. “Dr. Alan” — we must point out — is not actually a medical doctor at all — or any sort of doctor, for that matter. Just to be clear.

            2. 3:1 ratio of posting

              Winning should be secondary to truth and knowledge. One should be proud enough to hold their beliefs in their own persona rather than hiding it in another.

              1. “3:1 ratio of posting”

                Allan loses points — not just for getting it wrong, but also for not showing his work.

                1. hey Anonymous, three words for you and Allan. I was debating whether to say “Get a Room” or “No One Cares.”
                  So that’s a bonus…you get six words.

                  Now can we puhleeeze get back to talking about what an awesome president Trump is?

                    1. Wow. Sharpiegate is still going strong. Btw, that’s not me at 10:12. A lot of anonymous now.

                    2. It’s now 6:1

                      Absolutely no content from any of the anonymous except one with the proper notion “no one cares”. That should be true but anonymous likes to throw Schiff and has only one goal, winning.

                      He is a loser.

  5. Allan says:October 3, 2019 at 12:02 PM
    Paul, I guess I didn’t explain myself well enough.

    ___

    LOL

    Another predictable response from Allan downstream.

    1. “Allan says:October 3, 2019 at 12:02 PM
      Paul, I guess I didn’t explain myself well enough.”

      Allan Jethro Bodine did give it his best shot, but came up short. Again.

      1. Just to let you know anonymous that you keep complaining about the number of posts but over the past several hours anonymous accounts for about 2/3 of the posting on sharpiegate. You ought to stop worrying about who posted more and start posting things with content.

        1. Got those medical records, yet, Allan? Input from medical professionals? Input from NR’s husband and/or other family members? Was she taking some sort of anti-coagulant? Did she have any pre-existing conditions that might have been played a role? Any other information that might help readers understand your “delays?”

          I didn’t think so.

          And the anonymous contributors have posted a lot more “content”** than you ever will, Allan. You’re one of those all-talk no-action guys.

          1. Anonymous, If you had a brain you would realize that all the notes in the world and all the CAT Scans in the world don’t cure a brain bleed. This type of thinking is not content, rather it is rubbish. Pretending that a physician is talking about the “almost 4 hours” when he was referring to the hour before the four hours was misquoting. Repeating that over and over again after the full quote and question prove you wrong makes you into a liar.

            You think you are smart but you have a minimal facility with words and not much else. The articles you posted showed you do not comprehend because they added weight to almost everything I said yet instead of going back to reread them you just continued in your stupid manner.

            You are a loser.

            1. “You are a loser”.
              Realistically, I don’t think that being a moron and a liar makes Allan “a winner”.
              But maybe in AllanWorld it does.

          2. Dr. Allan Bloward’s will probably just say that medical records won’t “cure a brain bleed”.
            Medical history, accurate diagnosis, and medical records are all unnecessary in AllanWorld, since they “can’t cure a brain bleed”.

        2. And it’s Allan who has carried this to three different threads now, at least — for a total of four. In a couple of those cases, it was to seek comfort,,,and try to explain himself… It’s all about those bad, bad anonymous contributors won never post “content,” according to Allan. He’s wrong about that, but you’ll never convince him.

          1. Anonymous @ 8:03 PM,
            Even if he is convinced that he’s wrong, Allan “I’m always right” Bloward would never admit it.
            He just keeps doubling down on a losing argument.

        3. Allan seems to be know it’s much easier to spread his bull**** than it is to clean it up.
          Since he is too stupid to grasp the simpliest concepts and a liar to boot, it does take a while to unravel his moronic comments.
          He can spout a lie in a sentence. It usually will take far more than a sentence to point out the lie.
          So there are reasons why those like Allan can draw more comments than he produces.
          That may not be true of the total number of words posted, since Allan’s posts here and elsewhere tend to be long.
          Also, the total number of comments all of those posting as anonymous do not come close to the number of comments the expert and motormouth Allan posts on these blogs.

  6. Well, anonymous at 12:32 AM,
    If I misquoted Dr. Allan by writing “nearly 4 hour delay” instead of “almost 4 hours”, that certainly needs to be corrected before Dr. Allan pulls put the “liar” accusation again.
    This is one of the reasons why this thread is closing in on a record 1,000 comments; I think if a pissant like him really works at it, he may have a shot at running this up to 2,000 comments.
    The second part of his comment, about “almost 8 hours” or “almost a week”, if an equally nonsensical statement.
    The discussion has centered on what Dr. Allan Jethro Blowhard considers to be an excessive time in getting her to Montreal.
    There are realistic, or at least theoretical, amounts of elasped time we’re dealing with.
    At least theoretically, she could have reached Montreal in 90; that is the shortest possible time, if you skip all of the measures that I previously listed.
    The actual time was about 3hours, 40 minutes from the time that the paramedics were called the second time.
    So we have the 90 minute hypothetical transfer to Montreal, assuming no paramedics, Cat Scan, stabilization, etc.
    That, versus the actual time elapsed from the time the call was placed to paramedics ( about 3 PM) to her arrival Montreal ( abouta6:40 PM).
    Outside of repeating “nearly 4 hour delay”, we don’t know how Dr. Allan Blowhard would have directed the response to her injury.
    He clouds the issue with “how about”, like an 8 hour or one week delay, which is clearly bull****.
    When the fastest theoritically possible time is 90 minutes and the actual time is 3:40 minutes, THAT’S the time frame we’re dealing with.

    1. Again anonymous complains and cries about the number of posts and tries to blame someone else. He can’t take responsibility for his own actions. When I accused him of lying and misquoting I proved with the Scientific American article what the question was of the neurologist and how his answer had nothing to do with the “almost 4 hours”. Despite the complete quote which proved anonymous wrong he continued to say the same thing and lie.

      “He clouds the issue with “how about”, like an 8 hour or one week delay, ”

      “almost 4 hours” meant nothing to you so I expanded the time frame to find out what amount of time would make you suspicious. Apparently no amount of time would make you suspicious. That demonstrates that you are full of baloney.

      “When the fastest theoritically possible time is 90 minutes and the actual time is 3:40 minutes, THAT’S the time frame we’re dealing with.”

      Despite the idiotic opinion 2 hours and 10 minutes delay is a long time for a critically ill patient. Think of that ambulance with his lights on and sirens ringing while passing red lights just to get to the hospital a couple of minutes earlier.

  7. A trip down memory lane. This is where it all started:

    Allan says: August 31, 2019 at 10:17 PM

    Karen, it’s not a matter of right and wrong rather the best procedure. Despite our Liberal friends claiming how bad our healthcare is they should take note of how we save lives. There was a study on trauma with bleeding and the best results correllated with how long it took to get to the hospital. If you think about it, it makes sense to think of time as the essential since whatever was causing the bleeding could not be stopped at the scene.

    Another well publicized death was that of Natasha Richardson from head trauma at a 5 star resort in Canada. My bet is she would have survived in the US at a 5 star resort because there were multiple failures in her care in Canada which on the whole provides good care. In the US a CT scan would have been performed immediately after the second call and likely if the hospital was far she would have been air lifted. One didn’t even need advanced medical knowledge to know it was an emergency when the second call was made. If no treatment could come soon enough one could have used an ordinary drill and alcohol to prevent death and give her time. That was actually done in a doctors office as an emergency in Australia to a toddler who would have been dead by the time he reached the hospital. Well known procedure and ancient, trepanation.

    https://jonathanturley.org/2019/08/31/i-dont-know-why-you-are-freaking-out-woman-drowns-as-911-operator-tells-her-to-claim-down/comment-page-1/#comment-1877876

    1. And highlighting this from Allan’s starter-comment:

      “My bet is she would have survived in the US at a 5 star resort because there were multiple failures in her care in Canada which on the whole provides good care. In the US a CT scan would have been performed immediately after the second call and likely if the hospital was far she would have been air lifted. One didn’t even need advanced medical knowledge to know it was an emergency when the second call was made. If no treatment could come soon enough one could have used an ordinary drill and alcohol to prevent death and give her time. “

      1. Did someone say “Canada”??

        Why, yes — that would be Allan. Twice in the comment that got this going.

        1. “Did someone say “Canada”??

          Why, yes — that would be Allan.”

          Yes, Richardson was at a Canadian ski resort.

          1. From Allan’s comment — the one that started this exchange:

            “My bet is she would have survived in the US at a 5 star resort because there were multiple failures in her care in Canada…” (Allan)

            “In the US a CT scan would have been performed immediately…” (Allan, again)

            So — and this is from Allan, directly — it’s not really just about “time.”

            1. “From Allan’s comment — the one that started this exchange:”

              Our exchange couldn’t have possibly started with me. You enterred a discussion I was having with one of the ladies. You enterred in under an alias held by more than one person so immediately you were a nuisance especially since the Brainless Wonder goes by that alias. Maybe if you had used your own alias things might have been a bit more cheerful.

              ““My bet is she would have survived…”

              That was my bet. I’m an optimist. As far as CAT Scans the US has and had so many more CAT Scans than Canada that their locations at a 5 Star Resort likely would be very close. I think you were looking for a fight and you got one. You have indicated that on more than one occasion.

                    1. Really? Stop denying what you are. Get your nose out of the wrong places or you will never find a man.

              1. Allan – I checked the 5 star ski resort of Aspen and your chances are even worse. The town of Aspen has a population of 5000, half the size of Saint Agathe and roughly half the doctors. Their hospital has a whole 25 beds.

                1. Paul, you almost got lost under the pile of anonymous postings. I think that an airlift from Aspen to Denver is ~20+ minutes, but that is not the point. “almost 4 hours” seemed a bit longer than necessary for any patient that might “die” within a few hours. System failures occur everywhere as do accidents and death.

                  1. Allan – I could not find out if Aspen had a CAT scan or not or even someone capable of reading one.

      2. Anonymous is reading all the previous threads to find something. He counts and complains constantly about the number of posts yet continues with the postings. Based on these observations one has to conclude that anonymous is a kook.

        “A trip down memory lane. This is where it all started:“

        It started a couple of posts earlier but who cares. The funny thing is that the point I was making had to do with TIME that runs through all the posts “the best results correlated with how long it took to get to the hospital.” TIME

        1. No, Allan — that’s where you first made your “multiple failures” remark, AFAIK. If you made an earlier reference to it, please post it.

          A stunner from Allan: “the best results correlated with how long it took to get to the hospital.”

          And that’s pretty much a no-brainer, Allan. But that’s not all that you said.

          1. “that’s where you first made your “multiple failures” remark”

            TIME was the reason I thought a failure existed and that was brought up a bit earlier. You aren’t very smart, are you.

            ““the best results correlated with how long it took to get to the hospital.”
            And that’s pretty much a no-brainer, Allan. But that’s not all that you said.”

            I said a lot of things, but the focus of the discussion that you could never follow was TIME. I even capitalized the word ‘time’ on numerous occasions so you would get the point.

                1. I would not say that Allan is “full of himself”.
                  What I would say might not clear the WordPress filter so I’ll leave it at that.

                  1. “I would not say that Allan is “full of himself”.
                    What I would say might not clear the WordPress filter so I’ll leave it at that.”

                    We know what you would like to say. I think the lying, misquoting and other things are much worse whether or not they got through the WordPress filter

        2. Feel free to simply bow out at any time, Allan. No one is forcing you to be here, responding as you do.

          1. Anonymous, as I said to another I enjoy playing and sometimes one has to learn how to play with stupid people.

            I would rather discuss matters of significance but there are too many emotional people on the blog that don’t think straight and those that are logical and sane generally agree with what I think so there isn’t much to be said.

            1. LOL. It’s your time, buddy.

              Allan, the blowhard, says:

              “…those that are logical and sane generally agree with what I think so there isn’t much to be said.”

              Guys like Alan never get it.

              Again, too funny.

                1. The only “kook” in this exchange is you, Allan, old boy. And the only one who’s chasing his tail? It’s you.

          2. Allan “I need to have the first and last word” Blowhard will not “bow out” unless he gets in both the first and last words in his pissing matches.

            1. Anonymous makes sure that all anonymous postings are repeated as many times as possible to up the number of posts and impress everyone with anonymous’s wit(less). This type of affectation shows you in a very poor light.

            2. “Allan “I need to have the first and last word” Blowhard will not “bow out” unless he gets in both the first and last words in his pissing matches.”

              Let’s pin that at the top, too.

              1. To add content I will remind you that you stated this article proved that I was wrong about the “almost 4 hours” But here is the question that refers only up to the point of the priority 1.

                “Did the fact that she delayed treatment for an hour put her at further risk?”

                You continued to repeat the lie after first taking it out of context. That is the type of person you are.

                Of course maybe it should be Fido the Brainless Wonder who I should be responding to or maybe someone else. Who knows when one deals with people that want to hide among other anonymi so they can always blame someone else.

        3. It is actually instructive to go back to who initiated this debate, as well as how it started over a month ago.
          Those intial comments are more instructive than the massive amount of reposting, cutting and pasting of comments, that Allan Blowhard has done with subsequent comments.

          1. “Those intial comments are more instructive than the massive amount of reposting, cutting and pasting of comments, that Allan Blowhard has done with subsequent comments.” -Anonymous @ 1:11 AM.

            Agreed.

            It’s too bad that we can’t pin that comment — the first one that pertains to Natasha Richardson — so that it’s always at the top.

            1. ““Those intial comments are more instructive than the massive amount of reposting, cutting and pasting of comments”

              Actually Anonymous the ones that follow are even more instructive because they show an abbreviated quote that is then corrected by me with the full response including the question but that didn’t stop the misquoting. On and on the postings indicate the lies, deception and foolishness from anonymous. Thank you for highlighting this once again.

            2. https://youtu.be/ZjPDUMCKW2E
              Here’s something that will make it easier for Allan if he’s going to run this thread up another thousand posts.
              It’ll have the same substance as his comments, but won’t take up as much space.
              And still count for points toward his “Frequent Commentator” recognition.

    2. “It is actually instructive to go back to who initiated this debate”

      Take note, anonymous it was you who entered an ongoing discussion. It is you who carries the name anonymous which is the same as another anonymous on the list that frequently makes no sense. It is you that confused the situation by not focusing, misquoting, and lying.

      1. All the comments demonstrate a continusous aversion to the truth on anonymous’s in part because he felt the name permitted his comments to be mixed with others so that his lies and misquotes would not be discovered. On good number of occasions when quoted anonymous said he didn’t say that but it was under the anonymous signature.

        Anonymous entered an ongoing discussion under a name associated with more than one person.

  8. Hypothetically, if you skip calling the paramedics, placed the patient in the car, and headed straight for Montreal, you could get there in about 90 minutes.
    Vs. a 3 hours and 40 minutes delay we’ve heard so much about.
    In the 90 minute scenario, you might arrive with a dead patient due to a failure to stabilize the patient.
    But with a dead patient at a Level 1 Trauma Unit.

      1. You the one who keeps squawking about “nearly 4 hour delay”.
        As if she could have been placed in a transporter room and immediately been beamed down to Montreal.
        Here’s an alternative scenario, where you skip steps like the stabilization of the patient and doing a CAT Scan done ( among other things, like placement of a cervical collar, administering oxygen, patient history, etc.)
        Your the one who claimed that before transfer Montreal, all of these things mentioned were like “doing her nails”.
        OK, loudmouth, here’s an alternative, time-saving scenario where she gets to Montreal much faster. Had it played out that way, think of all the fun you’d have Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
        You could then second-guess the decision to not use the paramedics, not wait for them to arrive, and then bypass one of the closest facilities and instead barrel on down the road immediately to Montreal.

        1. “You the one who keeps squawking about “nearly 4 hour delay”.”

          Anonymous, you are starting to get to the point of my concern but the quote is “almost 4 hours”. So much for any type of accuracy being expected from you. I think such a concern is obvious and legitimate but to you who just wants to fight and look like a jerk what can one expect.

          How about if it was “almost 8 hours” or “almost 1 week”. Would that awaken your comatose brain? No. Over the years you have let your brain shrivel to nothing. Try thinking and see what happens.

          1. Pardone all to hell…. I guess Allan Bloward never brought up the “almost” 4 hour delay, or “nearly” 4 hour delay.
            We don’t know how Allan Blowhard would have demonstrated how he “saves lives”, had he been at the scene, directing the paramedics and the MDs who intially saw her.
            Our Monday Morning Quarterback and make-believe medical expert, Allan Jethro Bodine, would certainly have made all the right calls, and at all of the right moments.

                1. Allan – time is a variable, not a system. It is something that has to be taken into account, just as weather, road conditions, etc. are all variables that make the problem more or less complex. Yes, they now have the helicopter. However, even with the helicopter she could have been a dead woman by the time they got to Montreal. You have to get the crew assembled and on board, along with a doctor, nurse and assistants. Then you have to transport Ms. Richardson to the helicopter pad (roof or parking lot) load her in, tie her down and take off for Montreal. Now you can cut the travel time probably in half, but you probably added a half hour or more getting the chopper crew ready to go (this is a small town, they surely don’t have a pilot and crew in the hospital 24/7). So, even with the chopper we don’t know if she would be saved.

                  As I said originally, the moment Ms. Richardson refused treatment, she was a dead woman. This stands true with the addition of the helicopter.

                  1. “Allan – time is a variable, not a system.”

                    Yes Paul, that is right. Time is a variable. Though perhaps not as gramatically correct as you would like time was under discussion and the presumed system failure involved time. Other system failures involve time as well so time is the consistent feature in multiple system failures. For example, did the surgeon get to the OR room on time? Was an operating room made available in time? Therefore I used it to describe many things, this case in particular.

                    Knowing how I was trying to use the word time and knowing this is your expertise can you tell me how in a short sentence I could have used the word time to indicate what I was trying to say? Remeber the premise. A study was done and found the most consistant variable to survival in traumatic injuries was the time it took to get the patient from the site to the hospital. Even the length of time preparing the patient for the OR might be involved. You said a few yourself, including road conditions and even the time it takes to load and unload a patient from the helicopter.

                    Whether Ms. Richardson was a dead woman or not is not the issue. Time is.

                    1. Allan – since we both agree that time is a variable, variables cannot be controlled. You cannot control for Ms. Richardson declining care and you really cannot control for the staff at a small hospital. So, you have the time it takes to get to the resort, the time it takes to exam Ms. Richardson, her refusal of treatment, her returning to her room to lie down, her later asking they call the hospital again, etc.

                      The ideal situation would have been to RUSH Ms. Richardson from the Bunny Slope to an operating theater with a neurosurgeon at the resort. However, without a CAT scan the neurosurgeon would not know what to do, so the resort has to add a CAT room, besides the operating theater. Actually, the resort should just put on a full medical staff during the season.

                    2. Paul my goal in all critical situations, not just a head injury, is to reduce the time it takes to get the patient to the right place. Obviously, though the first hospital was the wrong place and we presume excellent medical care, the system is what controls that factor. Therefore, my discussion does not involve Ms. Richardson’s refusal or the competence of any medical personel. That is why I use the term system rather than blaming people essentially uninvolved in creating a system they must follow.

                      There are reasons for systems to be created in ways that might not appear to be the best way of managing things. Your idea of managing Ms Richardson with a system where the OR exists right in front of her ready to operate is actually a good idea to think about. That provides the minimal time frame possible though it doesn’t represent reality. The “almost 4 hours” represents the time for Ms. Richardson. One looks at the success rates between both extremes and then one looks at the two and tries to figure out with the resources available whether or not that “almost 4 hours” could be reduced.

                      Without looking into a system failure no improvement could ever be made.

                    3. Allan – even if the resort builds a fully functioning and staffed hospital on site, that still does not stop a Ms Richardson from refusing care. Unless you can get past that point, she is still a dead woman. And mark my words, that helicopter is only there be Ms. Richardson was a prominent person. If you or I had died, they would not have a helicopter. 😉

                    4. Paul, I guess I didn’t explain myself well enough. I did not concern myself with Ms. Richardson’s life or death other than it magnifies the discussion of the system and time. You can insert any individual into that scenario even if she lived, but if she lived it wouldn’t have gotten the press. The idea is to optimize things so that more people survive than would otherwise survive.

                      I’ll repeat. My discussion of the system failure has little if anything to do with Ms Richardson. She might even have died if there was initial refusal it took 1 minute to get her to the operating room. I am not even saying that a helicopter would have affected the outcome. My concern revolves around the “almost 4 hours” not the person, the medical personal, etc.

            1. Anonymous, as usual you are off topic and misquoting. “almost 4 hours” indicates a potential system failure.

              There is now helicopter service. Do you think that is related to TIME, the system failure under question?

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