Jim Jones or George Washington? The Extreme Divide Over Donald Trump Widens

The divide over President Donald Trump was vividly demonstrated by two comments this week. Fox host Lou Dobbs declared Trump to be “the greatest president in the history of our country” while former Trump associate (and Communications director) Anthony Scaramucci called him a “cult leader” in the vein of Jim Jones.

Trump himself highlighted the comments of Dobbs in a signature self-aggrandizing moment. He told a crowd in Kentucky:

“I was watching the other night, the great Lou Dobbs. He said, when Trump took over,— when Trump took over, President Trump, he used to say ‘Trump is a great president,’ then he said ‘the greatest president since Ronald Reagan,’ then he said ‘No, no, Trump is an even better president than Ronald Reagan.’ And now he has me down as the greatest president in the history of our country, including George Washington and Abraham Lincoln!”

I still find it extremely odd to hear such self-praise, but the crowd appears to have loved it. The suggestion that a president was greater than Washington and Lincoln would have once been viewed as not just comically exaggerated but somewhat sacrilegious in American politics.

Former White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci had a distinctly different view. He told Yahoo Finance’s On the Move that “When you talk to elected Republicans privately they can’t stand the president. They know the president is a lawless person and basically a criminal.” He added “The president tries to shame people. He’ll bully people. Remember, we have to be 100% loyal to him like he’s David Koresh, or Jim Jones from the Jonestown Kool-Aid punch. If you’re not 100% loyal to him he flips out.”

The contrast in comments captures the insane divide in this country. There is no ground between these extremes for meaningful discussion which is a dangerous place for this country to find itself before a national election.

366 thoughts on “Jim Jones or George Washington? The Extreme Divide Over Donald Trump Widens”

  1. His divisive rhetoric on immigration and so much more may thrill his base but it alienates others.

    Trump’s defenders make excuses for the moral reprobate that he is just as Hillary’s supporters did for her immoral, obscene antics.

    America has been slouching towards Gomorrah for decades by the will of the people, nay, their providing the momentum over the cliff.

    The Anti-Republican Trend

    The GOP loses voters in the suburbs for the third election in a row.

    By The Editorial Board
    Nov. 6, 2019 1:30 pm ET

    Mr. Trump won in 2016 on an inside straight in the Electoral College, and he has never had a job approval rating above 50% despite a good economy. His divisive rhetoric on immigration and so much more may thrill his base but it alienates others. His approval rating with white college-educated women in particular is dreadful—34% in the latest WSJ-NBC poll.

    The fair judgment a year from Election Day in 2020 is that Mr. Trump is highly vulnerable in his bid for a second term. He could benefit if the economy rebounds from its recent 2% rate of growth, and perhaps Democrats bent on impeachment will overreach. But Mr. Trump may need Democrats to nominate an opponent whose agenda is far enough to the left to scare suburban voters who are tired of the daily melodrama of the Trump Presidency.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-anti-republican-trend-11573065037

      1. Democrats in Virginia won because a convicted felon and a disbarred attorney like Joe Morrissey was elected to the Virginia Senate. In his official capacity Morrissey now represent parts of Richmond, Chesterfield County, Petersburg, Hopewell, Prince George County and Dinwiddie County, and this speaks poorly of these regions.

        So yeah, take a bow, Peter…..I would expect nothing less from you

        Member Senate of Virginia (016) Results by Precinct
        19 precincts of 19 (100.00%) reporting

        Candidate Votes Percent

        Joseph D. “Joe” Morrissey
        Democratic 9,625 71.91%

        Waylin K. Ross
        Independent 3,518 26.28%

        Write In
        Write-In 242 1.81%

        https://results.elections.virginia.gov/vaelections/2019%20November%20General/Site/Locality/RICHMOND%20CITY/Index.html

        1. Virginia is becoming more of an east coast blue state and less of a southern red state. It was bound to happen over time.

          1. It wasn’t a flipped seat

            The Dems fought hard in VA. The Reps didn’t even try

            ———–

            https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/11/the_real_reasons_republicans_lost_virginia.html

            The Real Reasons Republicans Lost Virginia

            “…the Virginia Republican Party failed to field viable candidates, use the political resources available to them, or articulate any sort of stance on electoral issues. Democrats did not win Virginia, nor did a massive turn in national sentiment doom the Republican Party; the Virginia State GOP ruined its own chances.

            Perhaps most startling, the Virginia Republican Party failed to run candidates in ten out of forty (the 1st, 2nd, 18th, 29th, 30th, 31st, 34th, 35th, 36th, and 37th), fully one-quarter of Virginia senatorial races. In contrast, the Democrats contested all races but one, the 23rd district. A party cannot win elections without candidates.

            The Republican Party also failed to contest twenty-three out of one hundred delegate races (the 11th, 32nd, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 45th, 46th, 47th, 48th, 53rd, 57th, 67th, 69th, 70th, 74th, 77th, 79th, 86th, 89th, 90th, 92nd, and 95th districts), again about one-fourth. While the Republican Party lost nearly a quarter of the House of Delegates seats by default, the Democrats contested all but seven races (the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 17th, 19th, and 78th districts).

            It also looks like the Republicans did not contest races in certain districts with unfavorable minority majority demographics. That sort of worn-out, defeatist thinking has to stop.

        2. Memo to Anthony Weiner: there is hope for your political aspirations

          https://100percentfedup.com/proud-day-for-virginia-democrat-who-served-jail-time-for-having-sex-with-teenagerlost-law-license-for-unethical-conduct-wins-senate-seat/

          Proud Day For Virginia: Democrat Who Served Jail Time For Having Sex With Teenager…Lost Law License For Unethical Conduct…Wins Senate Seat

          Democrats have officially lost their moral compass.

          In addition to their blackface Democrat governor, Ralph Northam and accused rapist Democrat Lt. Governor, Virginia now has elected Joe Morrissey to be their next Democrat State Senator. Morrissey was sent to jail for sleeping with his teenage secretary and was stripped of his law license for misconduct. He was also accused by a female client of making unwanted sexual advances, will now occupy a seat in Virginia’s State Senate.

          Strange, how the #MeToo movement just sort of evaporated, as more and more Democrats started to be accused of sexual assault or sexual misconduct.

          WTKR reports – Controversial Democratic politician Joe Morrissey is projected to win the state senate seat for Virginia’s Senate District 16.

          According to the Virginia Department of Elections, Morrissey won with 64.23% of the votes over Independent Waylin K Ross; a win of nearly 30 percentage points.

          Latest: Incredible Moment Trump Reads Whistleblower’s Tweets Aloud During LA Rally…Eviscerates Media For Role In Trying To D

          Not a single Republican candidate ran against the creepy new State Senator.

          WJLA reports – In June, Joe Morrissey defeated incumbent Sen. Rosalyn Dance in a Richmond-area Senate district race in the Virginia Democratic primary.

          A former Virginia lawmaker who used to spend his days at the state Capitol and his nights in jail after being accused of having sex with his teenage secretary has won a contested primary in his bid for a state Senate seat.

          Morrissey was jailed four years ago after a sex scandal involving a teenager, who Morrissey later married. The couple now has three children.

          He denied wrongdoing but entered an Alford plea to a misdemeanor, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, acknowledging that prosecutors had enough evidence for a conviction.

          According to the Huffington Post – Morrissey and his colleagues have characterized his repeated controversies as challenges he’s had to surmount.

          The “Fightin’ Joe” nickname comes largely from a fistfight he had with a lawyer in 1991, according to the Post.

          He lost his law license in 2003 for unethical conduct.

          In 2016, his campaign for Richmond mayor failed after a female legal client accused him of making unwanted sexual advances.

        3. The GOP don’t have the fire in the belly like the Democrats do. Period. End of story.

          The GOP are limp diqks when they should be marching down streets with banners, bullhorns and armies of business owners, mothers, children, minorities and immigrants protesting the inactivity of the Dems in the US House on the concerns of Americans from coast to coast, and certainly in Virginia:

          The violent crime across the river, in Crichton Court, Mosby Court, Jackson Ward, Northside, the dearth of new business on Broad St from Downtown to West End, the city is stuck in the Civil War with really old construction and empty buildings all over the region (the place looks like a bombed out area), the lack of access from East to West Richmond other than Leigh, Broad and Main Streets, the really messed up schools in Richmond, the closing of shopping malls, the embarrassment of local government that pretends to speak for the taxpayers, and the opiate mess is off of the chain: from Petersburg to the north

          The GOP have no cojones…..

          The GOP played to not lose rather than to win. Defense never wins elections.

          In the Richmond area, most of the Republican political ads stressed that the Republicans only had a one-seat majority in both houses and begged the voters to please help them to keep the evil, socialist Democrats out of power. Notwithstanding the pro-after-birth abortion (killing live birth babies at the mother’s whim) stances and socialistic tendencies of the Democrats, Republican ads stressed very few solid reasons to vote for the Republican candidates. One incumbent Republican senator’s ad rambled on in an ominous voice about the wrongs of his opponent and then stated that he, in contrast, was for “sensible” gun control and the pouring of more money into the schools as the only way to improve them. One had to search the internet to see if he was a Republican. He should have at least lobbied for increased school funding tied to school choice of parents, thus not pouring more money into the pockets of teachers’ unions bent on destroying Republican candidates. Which brings up the next point.

          No one is quite sure what the Republican Party stands for in Virginia nor does a visit to the Virginia Republican website remove any ambiguity. A voter visiting the website and trying to find the Virginia GOP’s positions on important issues to the party, issues which are supposed to be helping voters with their problems, finds merely the Virginia Republican creed and a petition to stop the impeachment silliness targeting President Trump. Granted, the impeachment silliness should be stopped so that President Trump can do his job, but the site does not even provide any reasoning on the issue. Without clearly articulating the reasons for moving on from the impeachment controversy, how does this placing of the “important” issue at the top of the page help any prospective voter or Republican candidate?

          In addition, the Virginia Republican party website is formatted poorly. Anyone over the age of 35 can almost hear the screeching of modems in the background when they look at it. It has a 1998 “You’ve Got Mail” feel to it. It does not impress.

          https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/11/the_real_reasons_republicans_lost_virginia.html

  2. This column probes the question of whether Trump’s appeal borders on cult following. A group of our regular Trump defenders answers that question only a few comments down.

    According to said group, Trump’s abandonment of our Kurdish allies is no big deal at all. The fact that it benefits Russia, Iran and the Assad regime means nothing to this group.

    One could ask why Trump bothered to scrap Obama’s nuclear accord with Iran if he doesnt mind tossing Iran a victory in Syria. And Russia benefits handsomely; its client, Assad survives years of civil war while Putin becomes the principal arbitrator of greater Syria.

    Some of our commentors claim that Bashar Assad is the ‘legitimate’ ruler of Syria. He is no such thing! Assad is a second generation dictator whose father gained control of Syria almost 50 years ago. Had Bashar Assad been a legitimate ruler, the Syrian civil war would have never broken out.

    The fact that our commentors arrive at these bizarre conclusions illustrates that Donald Trump commands a cult following.

    1. Your demigod Obama, without judicial charge, incinerated with a drone strike American citizen Islamic 16 year old child Anwar Al-Awlaki. Obama also spread his legs as wide as possible for the Al Saud Krime Syndikat, the most evil and blood thirsty dictatorship on planet earth, who committed many war crimes in Yemen with American supplied weapons (admittedly, Re. the latter, Orange Man does the same).

      You’d have American soldiers die in Syria, and spend American tax dollars (debt is over $23T now), for exactly and specifically what benefit to Americans?

      Piss heads like you want American soldiers around the world for one big reason: the more soldiers are in harm’s way, the more likely something could happen to cause an inferno causing multiple trillions of dollars in greater war debt and more dead bodies which you crave like candy and can not get enough of.

      People die in civil wars. It’s not America’s fault nor our responsibility. If a Syrian war is in US interest, why did not Obama and Congress (both run by Dems) declare war between 2009 and 2011? What part of Congress has sole power to declare war and can not delegate said power do war mongers like you not understand?

    2. yeah he’s the legitimate head of the Syrian state. this is legal reality. everybody knows it. brutal dictator? maybe. still head of state. there is no more legitimate government there in that place than the one he heads, even if you dont like it. there is nobody close with a greater claim to legitimacy.

      words have meaning.

      in Spain they like to say Viva Christo Rey but actually the King’s name is Juan Carlos not Jesus Christ.

      Don’t confuse yourself too much.

  3. So Dobbs and Mooch are at the extremes of how they currently view President Trump. After reading the 83 posts so far, the opinion of Trump falls within those extremes. Shocker? No. This is what you get when the measure of the President is considered like a game show. And our host routinely feeds that mentality.

  4. Jim Jones and his followers gunned down Representative Ryan, who was investigating him, along with his group. Then, he coerced his cult followers to commit suicide via poisoned Flavor-Aid. Those who refused were forced.

    Comparing Donald Trump to a homicidal maniac is ridiculous.

    Trump loves self aggrandizement and he loves to quarrel. That does not in any way put him in the same universe as a child killer. If this is not obvious, then analyze your political bias.

    1. Karen, Trump’s recent and totally unnecessary retreat from Syria left hundreds of Kurds dead while about 200,000 became refugees. Again, it was all completely unnecessary. The Kurds had been some of the most reliable allies we ever had.

      1. while about 200,000 became refugees.

        I see your talking points arrived in the e-mail this morning.

          1. If you fancy this was meticulously tabulated, I’m vending bridges.

            That aside, the total population of the borderland districts is about 600,000. During one recent year, about 8% of Syria’s population was internally displaced, so I’m going to wager the notion that 1/3 of the borderland populaiton has been run out of their homes (consequent to the removal of a tripwire force) is an urban legend.

            The sorosphere doesn’t send us people who do numbers and stuff.

      2. John:

        How many dead Americans would you accept to save our “most reliable allies”? I need a number. Not some vague comment about loyalty to our friends … but not our kids in uniform, apparently.

          1. John:

            So none. If you inject American troops as the warhawks would have us do, you will.

            Pull ’em out and let the sides fight it out. Back the winner when it emerges and then ply it with aid. That’s what all great powers that want to be so do since the time of the Romans. You don’t fight in internal squabbles; you fight only when it’s in your global interest to do so.

              1. So what? it was Assad’s country in the first place, and Russia’s sphere of influence. Who cares. Only fanatics want America to rule the world. Let the Kurds fight their own battles.

              2. John:

                “Trump’s move is actually a win for Russia, Iran and the loathsome regime of Bashar Assad.”
                ****************

                So? You worried about a nuclear exchange over NOT getting involved in Syria? What is our national interest in an area of the world with a resource we no longer need to import? Btw the Russians don’t need the oil either. Leave the Arabs to their own devices. Maybe they can eat the oil they lorded over us for so long?

                1. Saudi Arabia is running out of water. They tapped into their thousand year aquifers to grow wheat in the sand, and now oasis are all drying up.

                  The crisis is coming to that region.

                  1. The crisis is coming to that region.

                    We are already there, Karen.

                    “A person whose main difficulty is not crop failure but video breakdown has less need of the consolations and promises of religion.”

                    ― Robert H. Bork, Slouching Towards Gomorrah: Modern Liberalism and American Decline

                    “Radical individualism, radical egalitarianism, omnipresent and omni-incompetent government, the politicization of the culture, and the battle for advantages through politics shatter a society into fragments of isolated individuals and angry groups.”

                    ― Robert H. Bork, Slouching Towards Gomorrah: Modern Liberalism and American Decline

          2. “Mespo, we weren’t losing any lives in protecting the Kurds.”

            For one, we fought to repel ISIS, and did in fact lose some of our people. We’ve already lost lives in Syria.

            Turkey announced it was going to engage in military action in Syria. Done deal. Worked it out with Russia and Syria to form a coalition to put down the Kurdish insurgency.

            If the US remains in Syrian soil, how would we not lose any lives? Syria is working with Turkey and Russia to repel the Kurdish forces. We were trying to keep the peace. For us to remain, we would have to engage in hostilities with Syria, Turkey, Russia, and now Iran is getting involved.

            That is how World Wars begin.

            I would love to offer the Kurds refuge here, and elsewhere in the West. Since we recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization, they would be barred, but the SDF would be welcome.

            Do we have a good reason to engage in another World War, in order to force Syria to give the Kurds their own country?

            I have struggled with what to do to help the Kurds. If you have an answer to the above, then share it. It is not as simple as “help the Kurds.” I wish it was.

            1. I come from a military family. We have people in the Marines, Air Force, Navy, and Army. I have friends in the SeaBees. It’s the blood of my people that get shed with military action, so it had better be for a reason worth bleeding or dying for.

              This is also why I believe that if you do go to war, you should go all out and crush your enemies as quickly as possible. It saves the lives of our own men and women in the long run, over long, drawn out, years-long campaigns coordinated by politicians in safety.

            2. This is Syria. The place where the Kurds want their own homeland and to live in peace…in Syria. It’s not going to happen unless they conquer land as a military super power strong enough to expel its current Syrian residents and enforce those borders with an iron fist in perpetuity. Otherwise, it’s Syria. They’re not going to set aside land for a reservation for ethnic Kurds. They aren’t going to cede the land that was promised to the Kurds in 1920. They aren’t going to let the Kurds live autonomously. This is Syria we’re talking about, one the most dangerous places there are. It is outrageous how tour companies are now pushing travel to Syria, considering the continued presence of jihadis and military action.

              https://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-states-caliphate-is-gone-but-not-its-violent-extremism-11553439528

      3. Turkey has an alliance with the United States, and a member of NATO.

        This is a difficult issue. If you want to go to war with Turkey, it requires an Act of Congress. Turkey has permission from Syria to take military action to help repel Kurdish separatists. The United States does not have Syria’s permission to fight Turkey’s efforts. So we would be fighting on multiple fronts, including Syria itself. There would be consequences to such a war. Likely, Turkey would call in other allies. Lately, it’s been working with Russia and Iran in regards to Syria. this is unusual, as Iran is Shi’ite while Turkey is Sunni. Therefore, declaring war on Turkey over the Kurds would likely lead to WWIII, with Russia and Iran joining in. Possibly North Korea. China is in free play, as it is heavily invested in the US.

        It seems like every regime in the area has tried to wipe out the Kurds at some point in time. I am greatly troubled by their plight. The Kurds are fighting for autonomy or a separate state. Syria is not going to give it to them. Possible solutions are war, which would create a separate Kurdish state, evacuating to other, more tolerant countries, or carving out a Kurdish country in an entirely different country.

        If the Kurds cannot win their own country, then perhaps the solution is for them to leave Syria. Syria has an ISIS presence, as well as more disorganized jihadis. It’s generally an extremist Islamic country anyway. The country doesn’t particularly care about human rights, so what humanity are the Kurds going to appeal to? Meanwhile, the Kurds are fractionated, with some striving for a Socialist country. I don’t see how this is going to resolve in Syria, and am troubled.

        Critics have said that Trump is handing Syria over to Turkey and the Russians. Well, he’s not going to war to force Syria to do what the US wants. Are Turkey and Russia happy that the US withdrew some of its military? Definitely. This is one of those knife edge conflicts, like the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. WWI was started by a single Bosnian Serb assassin. Teenagers who had no idea what a Bosnian Serb was found themselves in muddy, bloody trenches in short order.

        I don’t like abandoning the Kurds. I don’t like the alternatives, either.

      4. On why the Kurds don’t have a state:

        https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/17/turkey-claim-syrian-kurds-terrorists-not-isis-ypg-pkk-sdf/

        “Having first emerged in the 10th century, the Kurds are today considered the world’s largest ethnic group without a state of their own, despite having been promised autonomy in the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres. “The two great powers of the day, Britain and France, reneged in 1923 and carved up the Kurdish territories into modern-day Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria,” writes the historian Bryan R. Gibson in a recent article for Foreign Policy. Kurds have been fighting for some form of independence ever since, often in the teeth of state atrocities such as Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s use of chemical warfare against Kurdish civilians. The closest the Kurds have come to an independent state is an autonomous region of northern Iraq, which has been largely self-administered since the U.S. invasion of 2003.”

        OK. The Kurds were screwed. How do we resolve this? The fair solution is for those countries that were formed without land for Kurds should give up the land that was promised…not by anyone living there, but by England and France. Anyone living in that land should be compensated and forced to move out. Then the Kurds could move in. Meanwhile, its neighbors are going to be extremely resentful that Western Europe employed eminent domain. They will be constantly hostile to the Kurds, and eventually invade the new country and conquer it.

        The Kurds should have had their own country in the 1920s. Since they didn’t, what’s to do now? Much of the map was determined by war. Romans, Arabs, Picts, Celts, Anglos, Saxons, Greeks, Visigoths, Mongols, and all the other ancient tribes warred and conquered lands. To end wars, treaties were drawn up and re-established boundaries.

        If the Kurds can conquer and hold land in Syria, they will redraw the map again. They do not have the military wherewithal to do it on their own. What reason could they give to form an alliance that will induce other countries to war with those in defiance of alliances and agreements? If it’s to prevent yet another genocide from staining human history, the Kurds can be evacuated. What is the inducement for the US to go to war, and for our men and women to die? I don’t agree that the main question is whether the SDF is involved with the PKK. I think the core issue is that the Kurds want their own land that was promised, or at least autonomy, and Syria adamantly won’t give it to them. Why would Syria give up its land at this point? What is the inducement, since the Kurds lack enough force to definitely take it?

        Are Democrats for or against war? Because they can’t seem to make up their mind. They were terrified Trump would cause wars without an act of Congress, and now furious with him for not engaging in one…without an Act of Congress.

        I have long grieved over the plight of the Kurds. I want a solution. I just don’t know what that is.

      5. “The Kurds had been some of the most reliable allies we ever had.”

        What on earth are you talking about? We helped the Kurds with Saddam and ISIS. Those were their neighbors, not ours. We did them the favor, not the other way around. They don’t have the military capability to ever help us let alone be an “ally.” Your comment is embarrassing.

  5. Dobbs is a long time respected journalist while Scareamucous was a hand maiden to Pock a haunt as. No need to read further.

  6. Trump makes no pretense of being religious. In this one regard he’s honest. But rightwing media is far too fawning to project any level of reality. Consequently most conservatives are uncritical admirers of Trump. And one sees that on these comment threads. There is consistently an attitude like Trump cannot possibly be wrong on any single issue. That blindness to his faults becomes as eerie as Jim Jones.

    1. Trump’s wrong on all kinds of stuff, it’s what he’s right on that creates ENTHUSIASM~!!!!!

      HAIL TO THE CHIEF

    2. “Consequently most conservatives are uncritical admirers of Trump.” You must not watch conservative media, read conservative news, or speak to conservatives over politics.

      Of course conservatives criticize Trump when they feel it’s warranted. It’s safe to say the man is not Jesus Christ.

      Jim Jones was a child killer mass murderer. No. Supporting Trump’s policies is not like following a mass murderer. It is exactly that kind of irresponsible rhetoric that conservatives are sick and tired of. That’s why some cheer when Trump throws mud in the faces of the mudslingers.

      Do you not see the irony that Democrats now support socialism, including mass murderers like Hugo Chavez, but they accuse Trump of being like a mass murderer? This takes a stunning lack of introspection.

      The more bigotry against conservatives, the more they will seek out elected officials willing to fight.

  7. It’s not prudent to have aught but a tentative judgement on a President for some time. The Nixon Administration is far enough past that we might have sufficient perspective, but sometimes that isn’t enough. Woodrow Wilson received unearned good press for > 50 years after he shuffled off into retirement.

    Of course, the notion that a practical man like Trump is a ‘cult leader’ is frankly bizarre and says something about the rot in our political culture. (And it’s doubtful Scaramucci knows many Republican office-holders).

  8. The problem with the good professor’s equivocation is that he elevates vindictive comments by scaramucci (who was fired from the administration) to the level of long-time journalist Lou Dobbs. Whether one likes or dislikes the president, the truth is that scaramucci shares in common the traits of others who crave media attention, –trying to elevate themselves by tearing down others (think John Kasich).

    1. Leftists will not be able to hide forever. The investigation into their corrupt pursuit of Trump’s “collusion” with the Ruskies is moving forward. It will reveal far more than collusion on the part of numerous top governmental officials with the Clintons. The democrat party is finished. They will pay for their illegal conduct and will never recover.
      Postponing the inevitable hurts America which doesn’t trouble them and seals their fate. Leftist news organizations will face criminal charges as well and will lose what’s left of their diminishing credibility.

      1. “Leftists will not be able to hide forever. ”

        That’s funny! But you know, wentzel, there are actually people who believe stuff like that. The rest are Russian bots, but at this point there isn’t much difference.

        One thing we have, though, is time. And in time we shall see if the loonies were right. I suspect they’ll be making excuses just like they did when Nixon had to resign. “He was railroaded!,” they cried. 😉

        Stay tuned, my friend. Stay tuned.

        1. “Stay tuned, my friend. Stay tuned.”
          *******************
          Likely a short commercial interlude once Durham’s indictments are announced. I see a pretty big shiver coming from the Left once they actually have to spout their nonsense to a judge and jury.

          1. Would be pleasantly surprised if people were actually held accountable, but not bettin’ the farm. Democrats have to do something really crude – like have a chest freezer full of bribe money in the basement – ‘ere prosecutors are motivated to do much.

              1. Not a very good start, mespo!

                27-year old kid with substance abuse issues on someone’s staff doing something Dems highly disapprove of is hardly an instance of Dems doing something “really crude.” Must be tough when you have to grasp at straws like that one!

                Nice try, though! Shows the extent of your rabid tribalism that you’d attempt to make out like this is indicative of any pattern by the evil libs.

                1. Chikkipoop:
                  \Not surprised you missed the point – it was that whizzing sound you heard flying over your head. To flashcard you, my point was that some Dims are being held accountable by the two-tiered system.

                  1. “some Dims are being held accountable by the two-tiered system.”

                    Oh. So that was your point.

                    Very powerful point.

                    Damn that “two-tiered system,” whatever it is. 😉

            1. They got away with an illegal server in the bathroom containing classified information they backed up to the Cloud, and nothing happened.

              Openly bragging about getting the prosecutor looking into a son’s company fired, in exchange for $1 billion in aid didn’t interest prosecutors.

              A chest freezer of cold cash would be explained away as prepping for a natural disaster. There would need to be a body in there, with “Democrats did it” written in silver nitrate across its forehead. And even then I’m not sure.

              1. “Openly bragging about getting the prosecutor looking into a son’s company fired, in exchange for $1 billion in aid didn’t interest prosecutors.”

                Bat guano comment of the day! In a way, I feel bad for you, but then I realize how much damage your ignorance has caused.

                I can only imagine what “news” sites you’ve been getting info like that from! Can’t wait for the stunning details! 😉

                  1. Hey Paul, I don’t have an hour to look for the offending passage; any chance you could help me out and show me where it is so I can be amazed yet again? I mean, if it’s there you should be able to find it, right?

                    Thanks in advance! 😉

                    1. Chikkipop – your education is more important. Watch the whole thing and learn something new.

                  2. “your education is more important. Watch the whole thing and learn something new.”

                    I spotted the part I’m sure you guys were referring to, but unfortunately it confirmed my strong suspicion. It is hard for me to believe you folks have been conditioned to misunderstand what you were hearing, but I’m pretty clear that it’s what happened.

                    Please tell me I’m wrong. Please tell me what I suspect is mistaken, and you actually have a good reason for having me watch that. Don’t confirm yet again that you guys are this clueless. Yeah, we stereotype you guys and all, but please don’t make it so easy. Say it ain’t so! 😉

                    For the record, what did you see in that video that you thought I needed to see? If you can’t explain it I’ll have to assume the worst. Help me out here!

              2. Karen’s lying and knows it. The prosecutor was not looking into Burisma and that fact has been confirmed by the WSJ,Bloomberg, and a sitting GOP congressman who was part of FBI involvement in fixing corruption in the Ukraineat that very time. She knows all that but can’t keep from lying about it.

                1. Anon1 – that very prosecutor has given a sworn statement saying he was looking into Burisma and Hunter Biden. Who are we to believe?

                  1. Easy Paul. Everyone except the prosecutor which includes not only those disinterested sources I cited above, but the US Govt, the IMF, and the Ukrainian parliament all of whom wanted him gone for corruption. His sworn statement was for the benefit of an oligarch fighting extradition to the US for bribery and represented by Fox sleazeballs Genovese and Toensig, who also represent Solomon, the guy selling the affidavit

                    1. Anon1 – you are very good with using weasel words. According to Tim Pool the investigation has been reopened. BTW, are you a sleazeball contractor? Can you prove that you are not?

          2. “Durham’s indictments”

            Oooooh! Can’t wait! Can we get together for lunch when they come out??

            Oooh…. ooh. Now I’m staying tuned for Durham’s indictments! Oooh!

            1. A bunch of indictments is not what’s needed. I don’t see any great hope in indictments.
              Political will, developed mass popular organization, and total commitment is what’s needed.
              That is the objective, and the means may vary.

              Trump came, he will go eventually, but the signs on the road are clearly marked and all point in the same direction.

              1. “the signs on the road are clearly marked and all point in the same direction.”

                Help some of us out, here! Where do the signs point?

        2. Trump is no Nixon. I like Nixon, in retrospect, but he was far too timid. You can read Liddy’s book for how far he was willing to go, and probably they should have.

          1. “You can read Liddy’s book for how far he was willing to go, and probably they should have.”

            I’ll pass on the Liddy book, thanks. But what is it “they” should have done?

            1. it’s there for you if you want to read history from primary sources. i know your kind isn’t into that. you just like to take tertiary snippets from unqualified reporters who don’t know their piehole from the other end of their alimentary canal.

        3. Maybe Chikipop can tell us who was ” making excuses when Nixon resigned”, claiming that he was “railroaded”.
          Also, the talk and the objective of impeaching Nixon did start until he was into his second term. The talk and objective of impeaching Trump ( Ukraine is what their hanging their hat on now, rather than the earlier attempts trying to find something in Russiagate, campaign finance violations, money laundering, treason, etc.) started at or before be was sworn into office.
          His political opponents would have more credibility had they not been advertising for years that they wanted to “find something” they could use to impeach him.

      2. Ha, don’t get your hopes up on that last one The mass media have a MORTAL LOCK on American political culture. The way they have consolidated control over social media and the internet proves it.

        The system was designed this way from the start.

        ANTI TRUST ACTION to break up mass media leviathans is urgently needed, come it from left or right, it’s crucial.

    2. That the FBI altered written statements of Flynn and justifies it by claiming they were merely making grammatical changes serves only to bury them them deeper. Our sacred institutions are collapsing before our eyes. A non-violent overthrow of what was our U.S. government is gathering momentum regardless what the leftists do.
      Speaking of corrupt, I’m sure Jonathan knows this, federal prosecutors can imprison you on knowingly bogus charges and enjoy complete immunity.

        1. So what if the prosecution pleads it’s case? They always do. That proves nothing in itself. Criminal defendants have due process and the right to impeach their own pleas.

          ““There is something unique you have to agree that now that the impeachment inquiry is underway, sparked by a complaint from someone within the intelligence community, it feeds the president’s concern, an often-used term about a ‘deep state’ being there to take him out,” she said.

          “Well, you know, thank God for the ‘deep state’,” McLaughlin responded, provoking laughter and applause.”

          — FORMER ACTING CIA DIRECTOR JOHN MCLAUGHLIN. look it up!

          YES THERE IS A DEEP STATE AND HE JUST FLATLY ADMITTED IT AND SANG ITS PRAISE.

          YOU’RE A FOOL IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF CLEAR ENGLISH LANGUAGE

          1. “YES THERE IS A DEEP STATE AND HE JUST FLATLY ADMITTED IT AND SANG ITS PRAISE.

            YOU’RE A FOOL IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF CLEAR ENGLISH LANGUAGE”

            “Your honor, I think I’ll let the defendant’s statement stand on its own; submitted as Exhibit A.” 😉

            1. “Your honor, I think I’ll let the defendant’s statement stand on its own; submitted as Exhibit A.”

              *********************
              Unfortunately, you forgot to account for the expert video testimony from former CIA acting -chief John McLaughlin. He’s not being flip:

              1. Where is a forehead slap emoji when you need one?! 😉

                My goodness; we always say the Fox propaganda channel has you folks snookered, but there’s nothing like seeing it in action!

                I’d be laughing but for the fact my fellow citizens are actually taken in by this stuff. We’re all paying for your ignorance & gullibility, but I do thank you for this stellar example!

                “expert video testimony” https://giphy.com/explore/slapping-forehead

                1. Chikenpoop, the guy said what he meant and he meant what he said.

                  Now he’s just chickenscheiss for failing to admit it. Says he was beign facetious. Oh really.

                  Just like Zaid said “the coup has started.,” that was facetious too

                  Am I being facetious when i say traitors should be hanged? maybe or maybe not

                  1. “the guy said what he meant and he meant what he said.”

                    OMG. You just can’t make this stuff up. I mean, if I had this unstable a relationship with reality, I’d probably vote for Trump, or a potato, or a bag of chips.

                    Hey Kurtz! If you’re some teenage boy, I get that you’ve got some growing up to do, and you’ll get over the “manly” stuff you put up as a screen for your adolescent confusion about the world. But when you grow older, this stuff won’t cut it; you have to start understanding the world as an adult.

                    I’ll cut you some slack for now. I’m really not trying to insult you if you’re a kid, but you gotta grow up if you want to be taken seriously. If your parents aren’t offering guidance, please look for a trustworthy adult somewhere before you do something you’ll regret!

                    “Am I being facetious when i say traitors should be hanged?”

                    Who knows; when I was a kid I’m sure I said all kinds of wacko stuff.

                    Oy.

      1. except you have to allow that FBI has been picking and choosing what it puts into its 302s all along since they invented the form in the first place. Why do you think they don’t record interviews like normal cops do?

        Our institutions aren’t sacred. They’re secular. I don’t worship them or the Constitution for that matter. You can be sure the Left doesn’t, and when the people wake up out of their delusional commitment to various shibboleths, a true Right will be born. It is right now, pregnant, at the very least. 2020 is when the oligarchs intend to make an abortion. We’ll see!

          1. YNOT,
            That has to be one of your most reasonable posts I’ve seen you write.

            What has been your response to the Trump/Russian theory when the facts didn’t work?

            1. “What has been your response to the Trump/Russian theory when the facts didn’t work?”

              It boggles the mind how Repubs deliberately misunderstand this. Of course, it “worked” quite well. The Russians involved themselves in our election, exposing millions of credulous Americans to false stories, and Trump has still not taken any action to prevent it or punish Russia for it. I personally had fake stories shared to me by conservative friends, angry that Hillary had had some FBI agent who was on her case murdered or something.

              Trump’s connection to Russian mob money is still being explored, and there is a great deal of information already known, starting with one of his sons saying how they were getting money from Russia at a time when American banks had stopped lending to him. This is a decades-long story, and you think because they didn’t find collusion in the campaign of 2016 – though they did find substantial obstruction – that the “facts didn’t work?”

              As Craig Unger wrote, “Collusion or not, President Trump and the Russians are thick as thieves. What I mean is that for more than three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to the Russian Mafia held the deeds to, lived in or ran criminal operations out of Trump Tower in New York or other Trump properties. I mean that many of them used Trump-branded real estate to launder vast amounts of money by buying multimillion-dollar condos through anonymous shell companies. I mean that the Bayrock Group, a real estate development company that was based in Trump Tower and had ties to the Kremlin, came up with a new business model to franchise Trump condos after he lost billions of dollars in his Atlantic City casino developments, and helped make him rich again.”

              Does it worry you that Russia has its hooks in Trump, and possibly one of the reasons he won’t release his taxes is that – aside from showing he isn’t as rich as he says – releasing them might show who he has been working with?

              Stay tuned; the Southern District of NY is working on it. But, of course, they’re just the “deep state,” right? 😉

              1. This is a decades-long story, and you think because they didn’t find collusion in the campaign of 2016 – though they did find substantial obstruction – that the “facts didn’t work?”

                Took you awhile to get to the actual question I asked and I see why. You needed to try and obscure the integrity issue with theories and innuendo that had absolutely nothing to do with the basis of the Mueller probe. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if the SDNY was hoping the Mueller probe would bring to light evidence they couldn’t find in their decades long effort to get Trump Enterprises. Still a miserable failure.

                But stay tuned; Barr, Horrowitz and Durham are working on it. You’ll have an opportunity to rehabilitate your integrity.

                Good luck!

                1. “Barr, Horrowitz and Durham”

                  Can’t wait for the tour! I’m gonna get front-row seats! Wanna meet up? 😉

                  (Is it OK if I come back here when their band fizzles out so I can say “How’s that investigation going?”)

                  1. (Is it OK if I come back here when their band fizzles out so I can say “How’s that investigation going?”)

                    Come back anytime. Make sure to bring evidence next time, because today’s performance has left your integrity in ruins.

                    1. “integrity is not in a Lefty’s dna.”

                      Up is down. Black is white. Good is bad. Knowledge is ignorance.

                      Just another day in the rabidly tribal world of Trumpland. They’ll be studying this outbreak in history classes years from now.

                    2. yes sir Tribalism is back with a vengeance.

                      they will be studying this for a long time coming you can be sure of it, yes.

                      cattle die, kinsmen die, so too dies oneself,
                      one thing remains
                      the fame of a dead man’s deeds

                    3. they will be studying this for a long time coming you can be sure of it, yes.

                      Whoever they are, there will be plenty to study. The “Official” accounts won’t just be written by the victors. There is too much evidence out there in the public domain to fabricate a narrative.

                    4. “There is too much evidence out there”

                      Come on!!! I take this stuff back to the real world and people think I’m making it up!

                      I have to say, a visit to Trumpland is quite disturbing, but not without some pretty good chuckles.

                      Too much evidence….. you said that. 😉

                    5. Trump is far and away the worst of the clown car of candidates Republicans have put forth, and just as we’d expect, when one of them wins an election, out come all manner of nutters who apparently feel validated and less embarrassed to be so obviously willful in seeing what isn’t there, while not seeing what IS.

                      By contrast, when an adult holds office the nutters are still there with their batsquat conspiracy theories, easy susceptibility to right wing disinformation & childlike lack of nuance, but they aren’t so open and seemingly proud of their glaring ignorance.

                      People have put links in their comments to 2 videos that I’ve watched – one, predictably, from their party’s TV station – and in watching them you shake your head in disbelief that anyone could interpret them the way they so obviously do. Poor character and/or wishful thinking – the desire to see their enemies “caught in the act” – can lead people to believe literally the opposite of what they are seeing.

                      It’s astonishing, but this is human nature at its worst.

                    6. Trump is far and away the worst of…

                      You continue offering your opinion as if that actually means something without citing what the measurable is and the evidence to support your conclusion. If you had any, you’d have presented it and argued the law. The fact you rely on ad hominem in an attempt to advance your opinion, clearly shows your lack of character and fidelity to the rule of law.

                      We’ll soon see evidence of actual crimes. Everyone will see human nature at its worst. When that occurs, we’ll truly get an understanding of which adults should be trusted to be in our seats of power.

                    7. “you rely on ad hominem ”

                      Ha! As IF anything approaching actual reasoning would work! This from someone who said “integrity is not in a Lefty’s dna,” and about 100 more examples of insult-hurling from the Trumpster crowd here.

                      “…lack of character and fidelity to the rule of law.” <—- More about that later!

                      How do you keep a straight face when you type that high-minded stuff?! 😉

                      And then, true to form, out come the dire bat-guano warnings: "We’ll soon see evidence of actual crimes. Everyone will see human nature at its worst. When that occurs, we’ll truly get an understanding of which adults should be trusted to be in our seats of power."

                      Yeah, man….. and CHEMTRAILS! An' the dam moon landing was faked!

                      Trumpsters, marching on behind their fearful leader! The "truth" will truly come truthfully out. It's just round the corner, I tell ya! Repent now and be saved!! Or, as your friend Kurtz says above, "when the people wake up out of their delusional commitment to various shibboleths, a true Right will be born." 😉

                      I couldn't have said it b……nah….. I couldn't have said it.

                      Meanwhile, back in the real world; was it a $2,000,000 fine for misuse of charity funds? (He did manage to buy a 6 foot tall portrait of himself, though!) And the Clinton's evil empire gets a 4-star rating from Charity Navigator for their foundation. Damn charity rating company's in the bag, right?! 😉

                      Oh, and a member of Trump's White House staff says the only reason his whole staff hasn't resigned is they don't want our government to be even more unstable, so they prevent him from doing what he'd do if they didn't keep tabs on him. Damn traitors! 😉

                      Breaking News: "Book by ‘Anonymous’ official describes Trump as cruel, inept and a danger to the nation.
                      The author, described only as a “senior official” in the administration, claims that high-ranking officials considered resigning en masse last year in a “midnight self-massacre” to sound a public alarm about President Trump’s conduct…..and describes Trump careening from one self-inflicted crisis to the next, “like a twelve-year-old in an air traffic control tower, pushing the buttons of government indiscriminately, indifferent to the planes skidding across the runway and the flights frantically diverting away from the airport.”

                      And "Lt. Col. Alexander S. Vindman, a National Security Council official who listened to the president's July call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, said “there was no doubt” that Trump was seeking political investigations of political rivals, according to a transcript of his testimony released today." (This guy had the creds and sec clearance to be where he was, but as soon as he testifies Repubs treat him like a traitor. Hmmmm, wonder why they do such a bad job of vetting? Traitors with high security clearance!? Dayummm!)

                      Fake news!! All of it! Damn liars! The TRUTH will come out! 😉

                      Nice choice, guys. But you just keep on with the nonsense about "what the measurable is and the evidence to support your conclusion," because we know facts & reasons have no effect on you. It's about your feelings; you hate "libs." Damn elitists!

                      Then you throw a major tantrum and elect a con artist who couldn't give a crap about you (except as a tool) just to prove how sharp YOUR judgment is. I have a friend in Philly who knew a cabinet-maker he stiffed, and USA Today did a piece about all the folks he duped: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

                      "Donald Trump often portrays himself as a savior of the working class who will "protect your job." But a USA TODAY NETWORK analysis found he has been involved in more than 3,500 lawsuits over the past three decades — and a large number of those involve ordinary Americans, like the Friels, who say Trump or his companies have refused to pay them."

                      Nice choice, guys. But from what we're seeing, I'd say the guy YOU defend and actually voted for is suffering from a "lack of character and fidelity to the rule of law."

                      And speaking of judgment, people on this site are passing around two videos which they think show nefariousness of some kind, while any reasonably informed adult watches them and sees nothing of the sort. If this is how you measure, it's not likely you can be reasoned with.

                      So yeah; don't be telling anyone they should be providing what you don't want in the first place.

                      "We’ll soon see evidence of actual crimes."

                      Had to see that one again. You just can't make this stuff up.

                      And by gosh, what about them chemtrails!? Hoo boy, when the facts come out……..gonna be a rekkoning, I tell ya! 😉

                    8. And then, true to form, out come the dire bat-guano warnings: “We’ll soon see evidence of actual crimes. Everyone will see human nature at its worst. When that occurs, we’ll truly get an understanding of which adults should be trusted to be in our seats of power.”

                      Dire bat-guano warnings? That’s an interesting choice of words. My statements above made no mention of who the evidence would point to. Maybe Schiff and the Democrats will have evidence for impeachment. Maybe Barr, Horrowitz and Durham will come back with the evidence Mueller and staff weren’t able to get. The fact you consider it as a warning is a tell, that you know what they should come back with, and it will not be favorable to your tribe. It explains why you’re working overtime now to cast doubt on what will be irrefutable. 🙂

                      In any event, Turley’s blog will continue to archive bat-guano; the evidence will tell us under whose name it can be found. So please do continue to post.

                    9. chemtrails, ha ha, the funny thing is that truth is stranger than fiction

                      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.691.5309&rep=rep1&type=pdf

                      GEOENGINEERING OF CLIMATE BY STRATOSPHERIC SULPHATE AEROSOLS you mean?

                      yes…… it wasn’t actually just a conspiracy theory.,… you guys are so smart so you should be able to read the big words in the link…. gotta love the internet man….

                      “Many of the earlier papers on geoengineering with stratospheric aerosols have
                      listed delivery systems that release sulphur in very concentrated regions, using
                      artillery shells, high flying jets, balloons, etc. These will release the sulphur in
                      relatively small volumes of air. Partial pressures of sulphuric acid gas will get
                      quite high, with consequences to particle growth and lifetime of the aerosols
                      (see §2c for more detail)…..”

                    10. “The fact you consider it as a warning is a tell, that you know what they should come back with, and it will not be favorable to your tribe. It explains why you’re working overtime now to cast doubt on what will be irrefutable.”

                      Ha! I wanted to repost that since it’ll be archived. Better chance we can find it easily. Y’know, when the “truth” comes out and all..

                      O M G you folks are a piece of work!

                      Must……… work……. h a r d ………. cast….. doubt…….. 😉

                  2. “O M G you folks are a piece of work!”

                    Good work, Komrade! We are very pleased with you. Comrade Putin will give you extra time under the sheets with him because he really finds your hairy legs and armpits attractive!

                    Don’t forget to bring Cuban cigars so that Comrade Putin can do with them what my husband, Bill, did to Monica

                    Stolichnaya!!!!

                    😎

              2. Nope doesn’t bother me at all

                SDNY persecutors will work on whatever their Democrat hearts want to work on. We see how Peet Bhahara went out like a fool, making himself get fired instead of quitting as was the norm. See, norm’s just a name for some kinds of Democrats, just some postal worker quaffing beers in the bar. it’s nothing they have to respect, unless of course, it works in their favor.

                  1. lawyers call prosecutors persecutors all the time. it’s old hat, heard the expression a thousand times

                    but you aint a lawyer are ya? didnt think so. just another know it all with a goofy avatar. have a nice weekend

                    1. Why of course it’s common!! You wasn’t bein no cynic! They was simply Democrat heart persecutors!

                      Wish I could find a really good avatar like yours, though! 😉

            2. You. An lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Plus, since you liked my comment why do you subscribe to the conspiracies?

                    1. YNOT
                      – you are correct.

                      FIFY, you are welcome. If you made that your mantra, you would be able to improve upon yur ridiculously low right/wrong ratio.

                    2. Tony – you have only been correct twice today, hence my saying. Again, I am rarely wrong and I am not sure if you can define ratio.

              1. First of all, it was reasonable compared to your usual personal diary entries. That’s a very low bar. Secondly, I do appreciate you admitting it’s been difficult for you to accept the results of the Mueller investigation. It’s a process and Barr, Horrowitz and Durham will help you through this difficult time.

                1. Why do you believe every conspiracy that is bandied about to distract from tRump’s illegal activity? Still no answer to that ? so why pretend to debate a RWNJ.

                  1. Why do you believe every conspiracy that is bandied about to distract from tRump’s illegal activity?

                    I don’t believe anything without evidence. That includes allegations of President Trump’s illegal activity. Provide evidence of criminal intent and I don’t care who gets taken down.

                    So why do you dismiss evidence of illegal activities when committed by democrats?

                    1. There is plenty of evidence and you know it. As foe Dems, I have no problem with anyone being prosecuted for breaking the law but not based on conspiracy theories.

                    2. Every RICO case, every multi-defendant prosecution, garden variety “conspiracy” cases, and most “attempt” cases, are all essentially what you guys call “conspiracy theories.” They’re only theories until the facts are there and the verdict comes in. Then they’re conspiracy facts.

  9. The US govt has a very interesting Myth about David Koresh & saving those kids, that David was so Evil that our govt had to burn alive all those kids to save them from David.

    And even more interesting to the govt myths, most of the same group of govt men moved up to OKC the next year & are seen fixing the phone lines with wires & Gray Sticks of Butter, among many other interesting details… again the kids get it

    No wonder Hillary & her Dim/Rino Deep State people demand the internet be Censored!

      1. Waco was a bumbling, incompetent operation that ended in horrific tragedy. Koresh should have been arrested when he left the compound. But there were leaks when locals learned of the up-coming operation and warned Koresh. That’s why feds normally never alert local law enforcement to their plans, because you never know who is related or friends with whom. In this case, it was a postal worker who was told to stay away from the compound due to the upcoming raid, who then passed that info on to a friend who lived there. So all and all, it was an incompetent, poorly executed plan. But it was not murder. The fire was an accident. Nobody in ATF, FBI or DOJ wanted or intended those children to die.

        1. The FBI in 1992 sent a small army to arrest an oddball named Randy Weaver. Weaver was facing two charges: selling a sawed off shotgun to an undercover officer, and failure to appear for a hearing on said charge. The man-hours devoted to arresting this one man for (1) a process crime arising from (2) selling contraband to an agent provacateur astound. And, of course, trigger-happy bozos killed three people who resided in Weaver’s home during the imbroglio. The FBI’s and federal prosecutors allowed the responsible agents to skate.

          There was something very wrong with the institutional cultures of federal law enforcement at that time. Leon Wieseltier’s assessment of the Koresh crew was thus, “They were losers, but not the sort of losers in which the media takes an interest”.

          1. but weaver was a “Racist” and so any means necessary were authorized.

            many decades later, it’s most of all, the success of the civil trial executed by the awesome Jerry Spence against the murdering FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi and his bosses that caused this to not be forgotten.

            the institutional culture of law enforcement at the time also included a thing called “OPERATION PATCON” in which tons of dirty snitches and scumbags were sent into action provoking various other crimes. one wonders to what extent government snitches acting with the presumption of immunity actually help plan and perpetrate horrific crimes that otherwise would not happen?

            One might say the same of the government’s habitual use of snitches in other sorts of crimes too. “Whitey Bulger” is a name that comes to mind.

            Speaking of the resentment in certain corners about Ruby Ridge and Waco, it’s said that he OKC bombing was a terrorist act of retaliation. Probably so. But why mention this now?

            Because here’s some more “interesting stuff” people generally don’t know about OKC — all the following is verified through public sources and legit journalism:

            a) the “Midwestern Bank robbers” aka the “Aryan Republican army” are believed now to have helped arrange McVeigh execute the OKC bombing – and he is believed to have helped them rob banks.
            b) inside the ARA the FBI had eventually two cooperating witnesses (“snitch”) inside the ARA- as it related to the bank robberies. but what did they know about the OKC incident, or do?
            c) ATF informant Carol Howe warned the ATF in OKC ahead of time that there was a bomb plot. Who by the way was also working for the SPLC’s disgraced former leader Morris Dees, at the very same time.
            d) kevin mccarthy: ARA member and government witness against ARA, today free
            e) michael brescia, suspected “john doe #2”, free after 5 years for bank robbery
            f) shawn kenny, entered the US army after cooperating, wow, yes its verified
            g) richard guthrie: penned out a confession and then “hung himself” in his cell prior to trial
            h) the guy that organized it, Peter Langan, was born in Saigon, son of a CIA agent, interesting backround for a racist bank robber and would be terrorist– and today he’s still locked up, but more well known for a big lawsuit against the BOP to force them to do things for him in respect of his “gender reassignment” — yes, he’s more known as a “trans rights activist” today.
            i) mcveigh’s own lawyer wrote a big book, after mcveigh attacked him in the media as incompetent, in which he revealed many different forms of evidence he attempted to introduce in the trial that “others unknown” were involved in the terror act– but the government prosecutor, judge, and mcveigh himself all resisted the lawyer’s attempts to finger the other bad actors. well, today, mcveigh sure won’t be spilling the beans about it, that’s for sure!

            see, the snitches the government recruits in these groups, are often the only sane ones! but one wonders how the nutjobs actually get anything done without them!

            here’s another disturbing question. would the US government cut loose a mass murderer into its federal witness protection program? Why yes, here’s one you may have heard of Sammy the Bull Gravano, who admitted at least 19 murders, maybe did more, testified against Gotti. Just one example but a doozy.

            tell me now, there is not STILL a culture problem in federal law enforcement.

            1. I thought Randy Weaver was a “white separatist,” not a “white supremacist.” Now if the former is a white guy who wants to separate, to be with his own kind in the sticks instead of living in a city among all the wonderful diversity that the government has pushed on us, why should anyone care? Yes, if there are “supremacists” harming other people, then that has to be addressed. But a “separatist” who wants to retreat to the backwoods of Idaho or Wyoming or wherever should be of no interest to the federal government.

        2. TIN

          Did you know CS gas is flammable?
          They pumped CS gas into the compound.

          Did you know that they cut the electricity and people were using open flame lamps?
          Well, the FBI knew it. And they pumped in the CS gas, it caught fire, and the death of civilians and innocent children predictably ensued. Arson.

          Felony Murder if not first degree is what you call that.

            1. gee you may not be aware anonymous that the feds settled their lawsuit in 1996 and paid big damages to the survivors.

              they settled it because their defense stunk. but clinton-reno fanboys still buy it decades later

                1. I think they were fools who could have picked him up jogging

                  they were grandstanding for the media and they got burned. swat team showoffs

                  i remember at the time a former prosecutor gave me a big speech about how incompetent the procedures were and what a terrible damned shame. we can see lots of overuse of no knock warrants then and plenty more since.

                  it was all downhill after the botched entry. you would think the FBI HRT would be full of sharp guys maybe now but back then just was full of gunslingers instead of the kind of people who understand psychology. really pathetically bad LE performance.

                  https://apnews.com/9e61b206e4c528e40c141c45c3385f65

                  undisclosed financial settlement, that’s all I know,. they got money was the rumor. plenty of it.

                  as for ruby ridge, Randy Weaver’s verdict was in excess of a million, but then again, he lost his teenage son to a bunch of swat team machine guns and his WIFE was shot dead by an FBI sniper named LON HORIUCHI

                  she was armed only with a baby at the time. the baby survived after her she got shot dead and dropped it.

                  1. Mr Kurtz,
                    I typed a comprehensive reply that disappeared, and won’t try to retype all of it again.
                    The link you supplied indicates a settlement with an ambulance company and a media outlet, not the government.
                    I’ve yet to see any evidence that the Davidians survivors successfully sued or received settlements from the government.
                    The other part of my reply dealt with the stupidity of the decision at the start to send in the ATF agents into a compound with heavily armed fanatics and the aftermath that followed.
                    I drew some comparisons to Koresh and Jim Jones as far as the megalomania and willingness to commit mass suicide; based on the fuel that was spread around, the near simultaneous blazes in different buildings, it looked like Koresh had “Armageddon plans” for the ending.
                    When Koresh was granted concessions in return for surrender, he’d turn around and renege, claiming “divine guidance” told him not to follow through on his promises.
                    That factor, and the tremendous amount of resources beng tied up week after week, was probably a big factor in the decision to go in after 51 days.

                  2. Mr. Kurtz,
                    I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the AP News link you posted reports the settlement PAID TO THE ATF AGENTS, not the Davidian survivors.
                    If there was any kind of payment from the government to the Davidians, I’ve never seen any evidence of that.

                2. people take hostages around this country all the time, regularly, and competent LE officers and procedures are supposed to plan for such things and RESCUE hostages not terrorize people with army style psyops, shoot indiscriminately into the compound with 50 cals, knock walls down with tanks ,and pump flammable CS gas in which can choke little kids and old folks to death in enclosed areas, let alone set off a scorching inferno. the most incompetent hostage situation response EVER.,,,,, not just ATF botched the job but FBI too and the DOJ and Janet Reno was the most at fault.

                  this was really her fault. i cant hang this one bill clinton

                  oh they were so proud when they appointed a lesbian to head up the DOJ

                  yeah i called Janet Butch Reno a lesbian. not exactly a secret. and a brutal one at that. She didn’t have kids, typical of lesbian career women government flunkies of her era, but she put other women’s kids to the torch. Excuse me if I puke.

                  did I mention the DOJ also destroyed evidence? including the front door with which they could have proven their false allegations that they were fired upon first. why didn’t they keep the key evidence? because it went against them that’s why. so they threw it away.

                  we call this SPOLIATION OF EVIDENCE

                  1. of course at the time they said these truths were in fact just

                    RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY THEORIES

                    yeah, the canard. it quacks like a duck and walks like one and yeah, it’s a duck alright.

                    1. DSS – on the other hand, where is the evidence she wasn’t? And what difference does it make. I am sure that at least 55% of the people in Arizona who voted for Janet Napolitano thought she was/is a lesbian, they just didn’t care.

                    2. He made the assertion. Active lesbians are < 1% of the population at large and < 20% of the spinster population at any one time, so I'm asking what makes him so sure. Barbara Jordan had a friend who shared digs with her for decades (though Jordan was enough of a ruin physically it's hard to believe there was much girl-on-girl action). This is known even though Barbara Jordan was a secretive woman, refusing to reveal (while she was alive) the names of manifest ailments causing her so much trouble (and refusing even when she had to be rescued out of her swimming pool). So, who is Janet Reno's Alice B. Toklas? There were no 'special friends' or 'longtime companions' listed in her obituary, just family members (surviving sister, b-i-l, s-i-l, and shirt-tails).

                      Janet Reno (and eight others) have been associated in recent decades with an address on North Kendall Drive in Miami. It's an astonishingly expensive 1,360 sq foot 4 bedroom house. Of the others, two are her brothers, one a maternal side aunt, and one a maternal side cousin. Another woman listed there would be her brother's wife (who did not take the name Reno). There appears to be a rental property on site, or they took boarders. One such was a man. One is a woman who currently lives in Broward County with her husband and adult children (it appears). And one (as far as I can tell) would have been college age at the time and is one and the same with an event planner currently living in Wilmington, NC. There's no indication she's married; she's also more than 30 years younger than Janet Reno.

                  2. I am personally acquainted with Janet Reno’s career in Miami and how it “prepared” her position under Bill Clinton as his doormat Attorney General.

                    this was really her fault. i cant hang this one bill clinton

                    Reno was played by the Clintons, as if anyone under the Clintons ever had an opinion that prevailed in their presence. In Waco she had just assumed the role of Attorney General, a position for which she was completely unqualified. Clinton chose her for political expediency ( i.e. Zoe Baird and Kimba Woods debacles). In fact Waco was a continuation of Reno’s ineptness from her tenure in Miami as State Attorney.

                    In the early 1970s she was loyal to a fault to her boss Miami Dade State Attorney Richard Gerstein, who had ties to the mob, investigated as such and was thought as a crook by everyone in Florida at the time. Reno slid into Gerstein’s seat when he retired by appointment of Florida Governor Ruben Askew. She was reelected to the job for years unopposed because Miami was a living hell for crime that no one wanted. Thus she never showed great leadership in her years as State Attorney which was consistent with her flawed decision in Waco. It didn’t surprise us in Miami at all. Reno was not a leader

                    As SA, Reno lost a significant case tried in Hillsborough County (Tampa) for a brutal crime perpetuated by Miami police in 1980 involving the savage death of black American Arthur McDuffie. When the jury acquitted all police officers, the blacks in Miami set the city on fire for days. Our family home was outside the city limits of Miami, but the riot zone included 2/3 of the county where our home was located, a town of exclusively Cuban refugees. We were bewildered that Blacks would set Miami on fire and riot considering Miami was already a furnace of crime. Blacks didnt care while Cubans did since we were grateful to be in a free country knowing it had its faults. In time Blacks turned on Cubans because they hated us for being immigrants, did not know English and for rejecting welfare, embracing work and refusing to play a people who needed government welfare programs. Blacks can be racists too I learned as a young man of color.

                    Reno was blamed by Blacks for losing the trial and she never apologized for her handling of the case. For years Reno pushed against the obvious narrative that she was a weak voice, a “star lawyer” who believed in “the law” but could not persuade others to adopt her opinions. She was naive and took a job poorly prepared particularly since Miami was already a very dangerous and criminal place

                    This is whom Bill Clinton picked as Attorney General, his third choice: a weak, female, attorney, inexperienced in federal law, whom he could bully.

                    When US Marshalls raided on Good Friday year 2000 in Little Havana the home of Elian Gonzalez, where the young Elian was staying with his relatives because his mother had died fleeing Cuba in the Florida Straits, it was Bill Clinton who gave the order to “repatriate” the Cuban boy while Janet Reno was walked all over by Slick Willy

                    Reno had no backbone, no personality of a leader, and died alone unmarried with no children. It was long rumored in Miami that she was a lesbian but frankly it was tertiary since no one in their right mind would want to be affiliated with such a miserable prosector and State Attorney like Janet Reno. Upon her death, like that of countless other failed liberal politicians, Democrats have tried to rewrite her history. But Reno’s name will forever be affiliated with debacles like McDuffie, Miami Riots, Elian Gonzalez, and Waco.

                    Bill Clinton always chooses women he can dominate, ruin or exploit.

        3. No attempt was made to douse the flames or to rescue the children who were burned to death by our government. It was an easily predictable outcome when a heavily armed military force attacked an old wooden structure housing innocent, innocent, little kids, that many of them would die. That’s murder and Clinton, Reno and their subordinates are responsible, to this day.

          As usual and just as predictable, had a conservative president and his AG been in power during that massacre, the leftist media would have freaked out and initiated a coup.

          They could have turned off the water. Turned off the water.

          1. Went, I think they had their own water supply. The compound was amply stocked with food, guns, ammo, bunker(s), etc.
            Power and at times phone lines were cut. Over the course of nearly two month seige, Koresh was given concessions he sad would end the standoff, them he reneged.
            He was persuaded to let a number of children and adults leave during the course of the seige.
            I don’t know how many of the children killed were fathered by Koresh; he was adamant that his kids would remain.
            From the bugs planted in the compound, it appears that the remaining Davidians had plans to interfere with firefighters, should they be sent in.
            From what I saw of the handling of the attempt to serve the warrant, the resulting firefight that killed or wounded several on both sides, the biggest blunder was sending in armed agents at the start.
            The Davidians knew the assault was coming, and I think the government knew that the Davidians had been tipped off, but went in anyway.

            1. Even if they had their own water supply, our thugs could have waited then out. with small children inside. there could be no justifiable rationale to end the standoff within any kind of rushed time frame. think of your child screaming bloody agony with red hot flames melting and charring his flesh, his eyes, hair, skin, fingers, ears, knees, shoes, unable to break away to find relief from scorching plasma. his face on fire. screeching in uncontrollable fits and spasms as his body turns red blending in with the waves of swirling wafts of fire

              DEAR GOD

              and that monster, slick, walks away unscathed and barr is blamed for epstein’s death

              1. “The McLennan County Sheriff’s Department asked ATF to investigate possible federal gun violations in May 1992, after a UPS driver reported delivering big shipments of gun parts, ammo, grenade hulls and chemicals and military gear to Koresh and his followers. The sheriff’s department also had reports of explosions and automatic gunfire at Mount Carmel”. -from the Dallas Morning News, a 2018 article.

                If there was the opportunity to grab Koresh if and when he left the compound, that would have been preferable.
                There was also the search warrant in addition to the Koresh arrest warrant, so that still left the problem of getting to the illegal weapons cache.
                Koresh’s involvement in a gun battle about 5 years earlier ( he was acquitted) may have prompted the original ATF show of force.
                The government had information that the Davidians could hold out for another year or longer.
                That was probably another factor that, after over 7 weeks of standoff, they tried to force the compound occupants out with tear gas.
                It’s hard to imagine Koresh or Jim Jones committing the followers to mass suicide, but the evidence supports the conclusion that Koresh and his assistants spread the fuel oil and started the fires.
                The inventory taken after the compound burned confirmed a large amount of illegal weapons.
                I don’t know what approach would have been the best way to serve the arrest and search warrants.It looks like Koresh was determined to take everyone with him rather than surrender.
                Short of ignoring the request to the ATF from the local sheriff, I don’t know how a confrontation could have been avoided.
                AG Reno claimed that she had information that the remaining children were being abused, but I don’t know if that was confirmed.
                Koresh had 12-15 children by different women, including the wives of some followers.
                Of the 17 kids who died in the fires, I think most were Koresh’s and he was determined to take them with him.
                He was the one primarily responsible for the outcome at the Davidian complex.

                  1. Wentz,
                    You might want to read the Danforth Report. Then again, you might not if it interferes with what you want and need to believe.

  10. Scaramucci is just pissed at Trump because Trump’s trade policies with the Chinese killed a deal the Scum bag was going to make $300 million on. Hell, I likely would be pissed to.

    Yahoo Finance, they have be discreditable with anyone paying attention for over a decade.

    And Prof Turley again you miss the Big Pink Elephant in the room!

    Trump,…. James O’Keeffe/Project Veritas, others continue to expose the massive Pedophile rings, among those involved ABC/CBS/NBC/NPR/CNN/NYT/Wapo/ etc., major politicians/banker, etc., some most likely you’ve dealt with directly, and they hate it!

  11. Comparing Trump to Jim Jones or Koresh is so vile because it’s actually meant to demean and deride conservatives and those who voted for President Trump (yes I’m a highly educated, suburban mother who owns a small business) and speaks nothing about President Trump. That’s what makes such comments vile from Scaramucci, though they are just a repetition of what you hear everyday from the Democrats. The liberals and Democrats have ruined civil society with their searing hatred for conservatives. And such comments just reflect that reality.

    1. “The liberals and Democrats have ruined civil society with their searing hatred for conservatives.” This is a wonderful example of the “up is down, black is white” mentality of conservatives these days! Mark my words; history will show I am not simply being another partisan in a badly divided time. It is, in fact, conservatives who have been ruining this country for decades, from regressive social views to voodoo economics, anti-science policies including deregulation of legitimate restraints on corporate polluting & denial of man-made climate change, anti-intellectual propaganda to play to their low information base, and the all-important fear-mongering, whereby the “other” is the cause of all our problems. This is a shameful episode in our history, but it is no great shock that we should arrive where we’ve long been headed.

      The notion that SBG, the “highly educated, suburban mother who owns a small business,” would quote a former Trump associate as representative of “The liberals and Democrats ” is laughable, but this is what we’ve come to expect. Yes, in heated times like these, there will be comparisons made which are a stretch, but not only is this common to both sides of the divide, it is also the case that in Trump we have the worst human being ever to inhabit the office. He is the logical consequence of the choices conservatives have been making for a long time, and we’re all paying the price.

      1. Chikkipoop:
        “This is a wonderful example of the “up is down, black is white” mentality of conservatives these days! Mark my words; history will show I am not simply being another partisan in a badly divided time.”

        *******************

        You, of course, are the beacon of fairness, enlightenment and self-awareness most of all. Glittering generalities, a specialty too, I see, with just a sprinkle of self-importance. LOL

        1. “You, of course, are the beacon of fairness”

          I accept your description. I think it’s accurate.

          And I’m happy with generalities that are generally the case. Here’s one: conservatives are wrong.

      2. Mr. Scaramucci is representative of liberals and Democrats because everything he says parrots the liberals and Democrats lines and lies. Do you even watch CNN, MSNBC or even the MSM, who have spent the last 3 years + a few decades smearing conservatives with vile verbiage similar to the comparison to a cult leader who created a mass suicide. HRC said what Liberals have thought (and other LIberals have said) when she used the disgusting “basket of deplorables” comment.

        As for the “Up is Down” comment,the liberals are the propogators of ignorant language. Liberals say boys are girls, abortion is healthcare, everything can be free, racial separation is equality, free ismore taxes, speech means you can’t speak – that is your “black is white” liberal ignorance.

        You should educate yourself if you want to have a conversation with someone who is a highly educated, suburban mother who owns a small business.

        1. “Do you even watch CNN, MSNBC or even the MSM, who have spent the last 3 years + a few decades smearing conservatives”

          Yes, I do watch a lot of news and commentary, and here’s what is interesting: you say they’ve spent a “few decades” doing this, but you ignore the fact that they were CORRECT! Are you really saying conservatives have been right all along, and yet the candidates they put forth are B-movie actors who PLAY president, well-connected but rather dim SONS of former presidents, who’d have come nowhere near public office otherwise, and an ignorant, amoral REALITY-TV show star who has such a shady past that he is hated all over the world by anyone paying attention?! These are the best and the brightest conservative exemplars you folks can put up?! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          Somehow, you folks have it right, while the entire free world (basically all of our allies) is horrified by what’s happening?

          I know you were just outraged by Hillary’s correct observation, but those with such poor judgment to vote for a con man are deplorable. Furthermore, she didn’t say all Trump voters were; her claim was more moderate than mine is.

          Here’s an easy one: “Liberals say boys are girls, abortion is healthcare, everything can be free, racial separation is equality, free ismore taxes, speech means you can’t speak – that is your “black is white” liberal ignorance.”

          Sorry, but unlike in your regressive party, we have a diversity of both people AND ideas. (Ever see a Republican convention or meeting? It’s a sea of white, and mostly men.)

          And many of the loudest voices on our are not in the majority. We don’t elect our extremists in anything close to the numbers your party does. (Example: you guys are all bent out of shape about an under-30 congresswoman who still has a lot to learn — and probably will — but think it’s fine to have a law-breaking con artist as president!) In fact, moderates in your party are largely extinct. “Liberals” don’t say boys are girls! A minority of mostly idealistic but naive college kids might say this; the rest of us are making an honest effort at having a fair & just society, and as usual, regressives on the right are fearful of change, as they have always been. Social change has been driven by liberals, and at every turn it was opposed by the fearful.

          “You should educate yourself if you want to have a conversation with someone who is a highly educated, suburban mother who owns a small business.”

          Let me know if you run into a “highly educated, suburban mother;” I’ll be happy to talk to her and explain that, no matter a person’s education, they are nothing without good character and the judgment that comes with it! 😉

      3. Peter speaketh:

        “ but it is no great shock that we should arrive where we’ve long been headed…..”

        ”The notion that….”

        “would quote a former Trump associate as representative of “The liberals and Democrats ” is laughable”

        “ this is what we’ve come to expect”

        Peter, your verbiage needs to change along with your zillion avatars.

        🐟 catfish

        1. No idea what Anon is talking about., but I suspect it wouldn’t matter if I did. Either way, there is a distinct bat guano quality to it.

  12. Sen Rand Paul has cojones. No doubt being savagely attacked by a left wing nut job made him see the Light. Now if only every Republican grew a pair as well.

    Hunter Biden made $50,000 a month. that’s the definition of corruption. we know he got it only because of his family connections. we also now know the name of the whistleblower. the whistleblower needs to come before Congress as a material witness because he worked for Joe Biden at the same time hunter Biden was getting money from corrupt oligarchs.
    I say tonight to the media do your job and print his name

  13. I can’t wait to read as the Ever-Trumper’s here fall in line like Cabinet members to praise their fearless leader. Something I’ve wondered about, did the Jim Jones Kool-Aid even taste that good? As Trump does things (daily) that you have to contort yourselves to praise when you’ve held a different view for a lifetime. Do you notice you’ve thrown away your values to support a maniac? Asking for a friend.

      1. mespo – You can admit it, it’s just me here. This isn’t about ideology, Trump has vey few core beliefs and he completely disregards traditional Republican values except tax cuts for the rich. He’s not “America First” he’s “Trump First.” He’s gutted every functioning area of the Federal government, now led by acting leaders that owe him their fealty. They figured that out in the Kentucky suburbs of Cincinnati. They figured it out in Virginia (once they removed the gerrymandered didtricts). The last place to figure it out will be the regulars on this page.

        1. “He’s gutted every functioning area of the Federal government, now led by acting leaders that owe him their fealty. They figured that out in the Kentucky suburbs of Cincinnati.”
          ****************

          You say that like it’s bad thing or you being a collectivist. And if that clown show of witnesses at the Star Chamber Schiff hearings are any indication, fealty left the building some time ago — like with Obama.

          Either way, the KY governor was the least liked incumbent in the country and was down by 20 points to the scion of the most famous family in Ky politics. It’s a dead heat post-Trump. Down ballot, Repubs swept the elections so arguing Trump’s coattails aren’t long make you look like Jim Hood or those pathetic losers in North Carolina’s special elections.

          1. So you’re buying that Trump brought Bevins up by 15% because he said so? Down ballot Repubs didn’t suck Trump’s ass like Bevins so the deply red state state did what they mostly do. Count it a win if you like.

            1. Bevins a very contentious fellow, it’s easy to see how even Trump’s active support in a red state could not secure the win. Kentuckians may have a better governor in the Democrat, who knows right now. Time will tell.

            2. enigma:

              “Down ballot Repubs didn’t suck Trump’s ass like Bevins so the deply red state state did what they mostly do. Count it a win if you like.”
              ******************
              Since you don’t watch anything besides your side of things(and it shows), you wouldn’t know that all Repubs on the KY down ballot appeared at the Trump rally and the AG-to-be made remarks and a promise. You really should get out more.

              1. Showing up is different than making Trump the entire rationale for why you should be re-elected. It would be stupid (but honorable) for them to oppose Trump or even appear to. They didn’t suck his ass which shows they have some pride.

          2. mespo: I see you watched Laura Ingraham last night. After ignoring the results for as long as possible, which is what Hannity also did, she was finally forced to confront the fact that he lost. She actually tried to turn Bevins’s loss into a victory for Trump by arguing that the loss would have been bigger but for Trump’s support. Did it occur to you (I know it didn’t occur to Ingraham) that Trump showing up and begging the crowd to vote for Bevins because if he lost it would make him (Trump) look bad actually energized the Democrats? That was one of the clearest examples of narcissism I’ve seen yet, and shows just how deeply pathetic Trump is. That you disciples aren’t repulsed by this display of over-the-top ego and arrogance is similarly pathetic.

            Then, the next argument was, of course, that Bevins was a total a-hole that everyone hated anyway, and no one, not even the stable genius possessing unmatched wisdom, could have gotten him over the finish line. Therefore, dear disciples, this loss in deep-red Kentucky doesn’t portend anything for the future, according to Ingraham. This stuff is outright laughable. A Republican dude LOST the governorship in deep-red Kentucky, despite Trump begging Kentuckians to get out and vote primarily to protect his fragile ego so the evil mainstream media wouldn’t mock Trumpy Bear. What about the issues that the 2 candidates were promoting, what about Bevins’s track record? Doesn’t matter. The KY governor’s race was all about Trump, and he got his fat ass kicked.

            Enigma is right in everything he said about Trump.

            1. If Republicans field weak candidates who are overly contentious about things that matter to locals, they will lose. I don’t see any big scare for Trump there. Sorry. But you keep on thinking whatever you like.

              Nonetheless, whatever you take from yesterday’s outcomes:

              Republicans will need to turn out hard in 202. No comfort should be had among Republicans for a secure outcome. The rabid mass media will serve up daily conditioning to its minions to hate Trump from now until then and that can have a daunting effect. Clearly, massive lockstep turnout from the regular hard working American people will be needed to win.

            2. “mespo: I see you watched Laura Ingraham last night.”
              ********************
              Not really. I just can read an newspaper article for all the facts not just the ones I like or dislike.

            3. Natacha — remember when Obama said this to black voters in 2016: “I will consider it a personal insult, an insult to my legacy, if this community lets down its guard and fails to activate itself in this election. You want to give me a good send-off, go vote.”

              He didn’t mean vote for anyone. He told the black community that it would be a “personal insult” to him if they did not vote for who he told them to vote for, which was Hillary. And guess what? They didn’t.

          3. The witnesses to the impeachment hearings have so far included a combat decorated West Point grad, a combat decorated Harvard grad, now on NCS WH detail, a 33 year veteran of the diplomatic core with degrees from Princeton and the National War College, and a 37 year career diplomat with a degree from Oxford. Now the big Trump donor and EU Ambassador has reversed his testimony to acknowledge that he was part of an attempted QPQ deal by Trump to the Ukrainians for dirt on his political opponent.

            Maybe that’s who Mespo means when he talks about a “clown show”.

            1. Your ‘witnesses’ aren’t providing the evidence which sustains the charge. Everyone knows it’s a public relations stunt.

              1. “Everyone knows it’s a public relations stunt.”

                We should suppress the urge to laugh; tribalism is a serious disease.

            2. You can trot out a bunch of ticket punching upwardly mobile ossifers all you like it doesnt impress me. Save it for the rah rah Ivy Leaguers and DC Swamp creatures who worship resumes. I dont. Like most regular people who aren’t in a job where bootlicking is a daily job requirement.

              1. Remember, the culture of the Democratic Party is such that Barack Obama was prepared for the Presidency because he’d punched his ticket in legislatures for 12 years, but Trump’s actual experience running a business with payrolls to meet means nothing.

                (Also, Trump having received an ordinary I-Y deferment – which a six-digit population received every year – is of great moment, while Bill Clinton’s series of maneuvers and cons which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations means nothing at all).

                1. I don’t favor attacking the Democrat party. A lot of regular working people who are registered Dems like Trump just fine. I don’t care what the paid for pollsters say, I meet and talk to them on the ground regularly. These are not the higher ups of course.

                  When you look at the suburbs, there’s your hard core lot of loudmouths, the sycophants of the managerial state, who have some kind of sick loathing for Trump. The overly educated, the people with the polished CVs, a whole lot of system hacks who know a maverick when they see one, and they don’t trust him. This includes a lot of Republican registered people who aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit. I’ll be judging any silk-stocking Republicans I know harshly from now until the end of my life for whether they are solid on Trump or not.

                  Trump’s a champion of the people.

                2. Barack Obama was prepared for the Presidency because he was a bright and well-educated person of good character. He is admired throughout the world for his dignified & scandal-free presidency. (Only the wingnuts have all kinds of sordid tales about his evil-doings, and of course they know best.)

                  Once again we see a conservative without the capacity to measure differences. It’s how you folks are.

                  You can’t even measure simple deferment stories right! Clinton was against the war, and rightly so, since even the Sec of Defense at the time, along with many others, concluded it was a mistake. Whatever you think of kids getting deferments to avoid wars they justifiably opposed, there is no comparison between them and those who take stances for convenience because it’s where their base is, as when Trump does his fake pro-military crap.

                  The mental gymnastics of tribalists are astonishing.

                  1. Chikki says: “Barack Obama was prepared for the Presidency because he was a bright and well-educated person of good character.”

                    You forgot “clean”….and “articulate”…..

                    (I’m sure you have no idea what I’m referencing here, so go ahead and ask Joe Biden to remind you what he said about Barack Obama).

                    1. Of course I know what this refers to, and, as usual, it’s not appropriate here.

                      I was responding to yet another bat guano comment about how somehow Obama had no more qualifications than Trump: “Barack Obama was prepared for the Presidency because he’d punched his ticket in legislatures for 12 years, but Trump’s actual experience running a business with payrolls to meet means nothing.”

                      Trump is and was an incompetent fraud, and Obama was infinitely better prepared and educated, as well as temperamentally better suited for the job, as history shows to all but the cult members.

                      Are you really this clueless or do you just play clueless-person on the internet?

                  2. Chikkipoo again: “admired throughout the world for his dignified & scandal-free presidency.”

                    Yep, not a ‘smidgen’ of scandal.

                    You swallow it all, hook line and sinker, eh Chikki?

                    1. “You swallow it all, hook line and sinker, eh Chikki?”

                      Yes! Sure wish I had the wonderful insight of you Trumpsters! I’m missing so much! 😉

                3. Given at least 4 bankruptcies and a reputation for ripping of little guys, I wouldn’t think a Trump supporter would bring up meeting payroll.

        2. So, Enigma, nothing Trump has done is good for the country? Nothing? More people working than ever before in the history of the country? Taking on China? Ending animal testing? Prison reform? Exposing the blatant left-leaning bias of news? Au contraire, my friend, Trump is putting America first. The people who don’t listen to the propaganda news as closely as you do can see it and feel the results of Trump policies in their everyday lives.

          1. It’s possible more people are working 2 and 3 jobs than ever before. If taking on China means getting into a losing Trade War and having to subsidize farmers for 40-60% of their income in some sectors; yes he did that.
            Did anything good happen on Trump’s watch? Sure, he inherited a growing economy that kept growing. It got a mini-burst with his tax cut but now we realize the lower and middle class are paying more and the rich made out like bandits. You might admire what he’s done with reguation until the day you can’t breathe the air or drin the water. If you are a corporation or rich person there’s much to love. If you enjoy public speaking, spelling, and high morals… not yhe guy.

            1. Enigma — your line about working 2 and 3 jobs is referring to the Obama jobs numbers. Part time jobs with no benefits is what Obama gave us. Trump’s economy is providing good jobs with rising wages. That’s the difference.

            2. Enigma, Trump has high approval numbers from blacks and hispanics. Why is that?

              The Democrat response to growing approval amongst minority groups is “Oh no, no no! the Trump economy is ONLY benefitting rich people, not the middle class. This is why we need to elect more Democrats, people!”

              To which the people’s response to the Democrat party line is: We are not stupid. Trump is working for us. You Democrats are the liars, connivers, schemers, and maniacs doing nothing but trying to abort the Trump presidency since the day he won the election.

                1. Univision host, Patricia Janiot, said, “Mr. Perez, President Trump has achieved something important, especially for Latinos, which is to reduce the unemployment rate to historic lows. How then can the Democrats compete with a president that has been beneficial to Latinos on economic matters?”

                  “The economic situation in the United States is excellent for the wealthy like Trump,” Tom Perez replied. “But the economic situation is still bad for our community, and that’s why we have to elect Democrats.”

                  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/11/04/univision-host-stuns-tom-perez-trump-economy/

                  1. There is no demonstration there of the “high approval numbers from blacks and Hispanics.” Show me some from a verifiable source (from someone other than Donald Trump, of a Fox opinion show) and I’ll consider them.

            3. Highest employment in 50 years is nothing to sniffle at. Wages are coming up. We have decades of offshoring, outsourcing, free trade deals, supported by “moderates” in both parties, to thank for the “labor market flexibility” that is considered such a wonderful thing by policy wonks.

              Trump is not exactly a darling of the free trade crowd Enigma but maybe you aren’t familiar with their names. Try the Kochs for starters. Rhymes with Cokes not Cox. I keep having to remind myself of that.

              1. Trump isn’t the darling of many crowds except his non-elected representative base. Republican Senators hate him, Republican Congressman hate him (although they all praise him in public). The only people that legitimately love him are rich people, the rest like (let me phrase this nicely) his immigration position and stance towards countries where the denizens don’t look like them. COal miners will figure out the mines aren’t coming back. The farmers that haven’t filed bankruptcy yet will wonder when the subsidis will run out (excepting Western farmers who aren’t dependent on soybeans and corn). Those suffering from opiate addictions in Appalacia will wish their local hospitals hadn’t closed and they had better access to healthcare (they can blame their Republican governor’s for that.

            4. enigma:

              Well he did kick some liberal arse in judicial appointments; stop the slide of military preparedness, made us energy independent, brought back 10,000 or so factories, smacked down the UN and our deadbeat allies, defeated ISIS, brought the EU to heel in trade, brought the Mexicans and Canucks to heel in trade, rolled back crazy environmental regulations, pin pricked the egos of so many liberal blowhards, showed Hollywood for the degenerates they most certainly are, revealed the innate biases of the MSM, fortified the border and of course outed the Deep State.

              Each a monumental achievement in its own right made even more so by adding all the others.

          2. Obama is the one to rightfully take credit for the jobs numbers. He turned around the worst economy since the Great Depression. What specific achievement can Trumpy Bear show that he can tie to jobs? Name something.

            What “prison reform”? He’s jailing young children and separating them from their parents to punish them for seeking asylum in the U.S., which they have every right to do.

            Trump’s only “policies” are putting himself first: attention, adulation–i.e., “vote for Bevins or it’ll make me look bad and media will make fun of me”. Of course, part of this agenda is taking care of his buddy, Vlad, who got him cheat to get elected: trying to get Russia back into the G-7, publicly deferring to Vlad over American Intelligence, trying to pin blame for election interference on Ukraine instead of Russia, doing nothing when Russia invaded the Crimea, pulling out U.S. troops so that the Russians could take over, and withholding aid to Ukraine, to leverage getting dirt on the Biden family. That’s just what we know about.

            How has Trumpy Bear “taken on China”? He backed off sanctions several times now. China hasn’t backed down at all: it agreed to purchase some goods, but it is spreading around its purchasing power, and is looking to South America to purchase grain and other agricultural products down the road. Trump is just a loser and a bully.

            1. Natch: totally dishonest daily Trump slanderer & obsessive. Total propaganda. Not even the whiff of an attempt at discussion. Pathetic

                1. Just want to see if she chimes any any new notes in her chorus of contempt. So far, nothing. Although the ridiculously false assertion that he’s not battling China on trade seems like a new one, however preposterous.

        3. The KY governor’s loss was unique. He was particularly unpopular for a variety of reasons and actually did much better than expected, Republicans swept the remainder of the ballot in KY. As for Virginia, that was a long time coming. For more than a half century, American immigration law has focused on diversity and family reunification, rather than skills. So VA has seen a mass influx of immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa, Central America and other failed states, all seeking government handouts, so naturally voting Democrat. The Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. When they controlled both houses of Congress, they could have revamped the immigration law to do away with “sh!thole preferences” and focus instead on admitting individuals who had needed skills and would contribute. Instead we imported welfare dependents, third world taxi drivers and MS-13 gang bangers. And then we wonder why VA is now a blue state.

            1. Without cheating? Tell us more, Enigma. Democrats cheat like hell. ACORN ring a bell? Barack Obama was a trainer for ACORN. He knows all about “cheating”…

              1. “ACORN ring a bell?”

                That’s hilarious!!!! Long-ago debunked nonsense, and you wingers have to reach back to it? Man, right wing propaganda is wildly successful; I’ll give you that.

                I hope you live long enough to become embarrassed at how well you’ve been played.

                1. ACORN did good work? Debunked nonsense? Sure thing. You keep on believin’…

                  BTW, you talk about succesful “right wing propaganda” as if nearly all of what we get piped into the mainstream media is not “left wing propaganda.”

                  1. Ever watch Jimmy Kimmel? His opening monologues are pure Democrat narratives and talking points. He gets his material directly from Chucky Schumer. Colbert? When Pelosi wants to sell her narrative, the first stop is the late night shows. And Hollywood. Don’t get me started about “succesful left wing propaganda.”

                    1. “you don’t consider that “cheating” to win?”

                      Correct. From FactCheck.org: “Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the largest ACORN case to date was prosecuted, said that the indicted ACORN employees were shirking responsibility, not plotting election fraud.”

                      Satterberg: “[A] joint federal and state investigation has determined that this
                      scheme was not intended to permit illegal voting.

                      Instead, the defendants cheated their employer, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or ACORN), to get paid for work they did not actually perform. ACORN’s lax oversight of their own voter registration drive permitted this to happen. … It was hardly a sophisticated plan: The defendants simply realized that making up names was easier than actually canvassing the streets looking for unregistered voters. … [It] appears that the employees of ACORN were not performing the work that they were being paid for, and to some extent, ACORN is a victim of employee theft.”

                      As usual, facts don’t matter though, right? Almost every claimed evil deed libs supposedly do is found to be wildly exaggerated if not entirely false. It’s because the base isn’t interested in what’s actually true; they prefer what FEELS true.

                      Your side is wrong. Yet again.

                  2. And the comedy keeps on coming!

                    Keep on believing some $8/hour employees who falsified registrations to make a bit more money were part of some evil liberal plan. It’s a good example you provided of how the bat guano right believes in all kinds of nonsense conspiracies, though!

                    “Mainstream media” Ooooh…..ohhhh. Damn them lib conspirators, tellin the facts. 😉

                    1. Chikkipop — I was referring to “cheating” by Democrats and specifically ACORN….and you provided one case of “falsified registrations” by ACORN…but you don’t consider that “cheating” to win? Keep on believin’ my friend…

                2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Corruption_Was_King

                  the former lawyer for notorious Chicago mob and political operatives talks in this book about how they used to buy blank yet signed absentee ballots in Cabrini Green and other housing projects in Chicago for $5 a pop. By the thousands. One wonders if the city Democrat canvassers have cleaned up their acts in the meantime. one wonders. But not Chicklet.

                  1. hey Chikkipoo — over here! right here! Mr. K. is talking to you, sweetheart.

                    Let’s not forget where Barack Obama learned the “ropes.” The Chicago way is Barack Obama’s way. “If they bring a knife, we bring a gun.”

                    (sorry Mr. K. but it’s got to be really clear for Chikkipoo to understand your point)

                    1. Love it! An old mob corruption story is supposed to somehow equate to modern-day Republican efforts.

                      Unreal! You guys don’t know how to measure differences, because your right wing ideology depends upon it.

                      In Georgia, a 2017 “exact match law” allowed authorities to throw out voter registration forms whose information did not “exactly match” existing records. Brian Kemp, who was simultaneously Georgia’s secretary of state and the 2018 Republican candidate for governor, tried to use the law to invalidate tens of thousands of registration forms, many of which were from African-Americans.

                      In Tennessee, Republicans recently passed legislation allowing criminal charges to be levied against voter registration groups that submit incomplete forms or miss deadlines. And in Texas this year, Republicans attempted to purge the voter rolls of nearly 100,000 Latinos.

                      Republicans are on record as saying if lots of people vote, they lose. That’s why they engage in voter suppression and gerrymandering, and make fraudulent claims about voter fraud.

                      And here’s how the country suffers from the ACTUAL cheating Repubs do (and, to be fair, the free & misguided choices their base makes as a result of relentless propaganda from Fox and other winger sources). This is a partial list of polling results in 2017, showing what Americans actually favor, yet do not get as a result of Republican efforts (yeah, the list is long, but worth thinking about, because you guys are on the wrong side):

                      82 percent of Americans think wealthy people have too much power and influence in Washington.

                      69 percent think large businesses have too much power and influence in Washington.

                      78 percent of likely voters support stronger rules and enforcement on the financial industry.

                      65 percent of Americans think our economic system “unfairly favors powerful interests.”

                      82 percent of Americans think economic inequality is a “very big” (48 percent) or “moderately big” (34 percent) problem. Even 69 percent of Republicans share this view.

                      66 percent of Americans think money and wealth should be distributed more evenly.

                      96 percent of Americans—including 96 percent of Republicans—believe money in politics is to blame for the dysfunction of the U.S. political system.

                      73 percent of registered voters have an unfavorable opinion of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision.

                      80 percent of Americans think some corporations don’t pay their fair share of taxes.

                      61 percent of Americans—including 42 percent of Republicans—approve of labor unions.

                      74 percent of registered voters—including 71 percent of Republicans—support requiring employers to offer paid parental and medical leave.

                      78 percent of likely voters favor establishing a national fund that offers all workers 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave.

                      60 percent of Americans believe “it is the federal government’s responsibility to make sure all Americans have healthcare coverage.”

                      60 percent of registered voters favor “expanding Medicare to provide health insurance to every American.”

                      58 percent of the public favors replacing Obamacare with “a federally funded healthcare program providing insurance for all Americans.”

                      64 percent of registered voters favor their state accepting the Obamacare plan for expanding Medicaid in their state.

                      63 percent of registered voters—including 47 percent of Republicans—of Americans favor making four-year public colleges and universities tuition-free.

                      76 percent of voters are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about climate change.

                      68 percent of voters think it is possible to protect the environment and protect jobs.

                      72 percent of voters think it is a “bad idea” to cut funding for scientific research on the environment and climate change.

                      59 percent of voters say more needs to be done to address climate change.

                      84 percent of Americans support requiring background checks for all gun buyers.

                      77 percent of gun owners support requiring background checks for all gun buyers.

                      57 percent of Americans believe police officers generally treat blacks and other minorities differently than they treat whites.

                      60 percent of Americans believe the recent killings of black men by police are part of a broader pattern of how police treat black Americans (compared with 39 percent who believe they are isolated incidents).

                      68 percent of Americans—including 48 percent of Republicans—believe the country’s openness to people from around the world “is essential to who we are as a nation.” Just 29 percent say that “if America is too open to people from all over the world, we risk losing our identity as a nation.”
                      *
                      65 percent of Americans—including 42 percent of Republicans—say immigrants strengthen the country “because of their hard work and talents.” Just 26 percent say immigrants are a burden “because they take our jobs, housing and health care.”
                      *
                      64 percent of Americans think an increasing number of people from different races, ethnic groups, and nationalities makes the country a better place to live. Only 5 percent say it makes the United States a worse place to live, and 29 percent say it makes no difference.
                      *
                      76 percent of registered voters—including 69 percent of Republicans—support allowing undocumented immigrants brought to the country as children (Dreamers) to stay in the country. 58 percent think Dreamers should be allowed to stay and become citizens if they meet certain requirements. Another 18 percent think they should be allowed to stay and become legal residents, but not citizens. Only 15 percent think they should be removed or deported from the country.

                      58 percent of Americans believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

                      68 percent of Americans—including 54 percent of Republicans—support the requirement for private health insurance plans to cover the full cost of birth control.

                      62 percent of Americans—including 70 percent of independents and 40 percent of Republicans—support same-sex marriage.

                      74 percent of millennials (born after 1981) support same-sex marriage.

                      Yeah, you probably didn’t read all of it. But only one party is actively working for what people favor, while the other party opposes the desires of the majority!

                      You guys are on the wrong side of history!

            2. enigma:

              There is no doubt the corrected political gerrymandering contributed to the results. Both sides did it. I predicted this outcome back in 2012 in an article written right here on the blog. Granted, I assumed the Dims wouldn’t jump on the “Hate America First” bandwagon and was wrong there but my election analysis seems to have been correct seven years ago.

              Kudos Dr. Mechtensimer wherever you are, you made me a swami in this instance:

              https://jonathanturley.org/2013/01/26/if-you-aint-cheating-you-aint-trying-virginia-republicans-and-the-jarring-demographics-of-desperation/

                  1. The problem you have is – typical for the right – that if you can find any instances of bad behavior, you see equivalence. The facts show that whether or not both sides do something is less important than how much more often one side does it.

                    The “myth” which that paper is referring to is the notion that there is equivalence.

              1. “An old mob corruption story”. Chikipoop must mean he “loves it” when it’s an “old Russian mob story”.

          1. So VA has seen a mass influx of immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa, Central America and other failed states, all seeking government handouts, so naturally voting Democrat.

            The Republicans won the governorship in a landslide just 10 years ago. Something else is up. The employment-to-population ratio for Virginia was, at 0.632, slightly higher than the national mean of 0.604 during 2017-18, so the argument that the state is chock-a-block with aspirant welfare recipients would be an involved one. What is true is that NoVa now accounts for about 1/4 of the population of the state, versus < 10% in 1950.

            Again, there are failed states in Africa and Latin America (Somalia and Venezuela being two examples), but that sort of situation is atypical.

            1. “is true is that NoVa now accounts for about 1/4 of the population of the state, versus < 10% in 1950."

              MY GUESS IS THAT AS THE DC SWAMP GROWS SO DO THE MASSIVE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE SUCKING ON THE FEDERAL TEAT WHO LIVE THENCE SOUTHWARDS.

              AND THEY VOTE ACCORDINGLY.

              1. About 20% of the working population in the jurisdictions around Washington are federal employees (a great many of them in uniform). That has some effect. More saliently, it’s a large coastal city and it has a large black population (about 30% of the total). Both of these correlate with support for the Democratic Party (the former would be salient in NoVA. As a rule, blacks prefer the other side of the river).

        4. Republican values, what like free trade? that was always a fiction and one that Democrats didn’t share anyhow so what are you complaining about.

          oh wait– i forgot. it was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA. You a big free trade guy Enigma?

          How about non-interventionism. That actually was a big Republican value for most of the 20th century, just not under Teddy Roosevelt and the Bushes.

          I could go on but it probably doesn’t matter, huh? You think what you want.

      2. Sorry, mespo, but the equivalence argument fails miserably. Yes, we are divided, and you can count on us to weigh in with criticism of Trump at every opportunity, but the fact is that Trump provides more opportunity than any other of the poor choices conservatives have made in the past, There is simply no comparison; Trump is a new low, and we didn’t think you folks could top yourselves after “W”.

        Blindness to the profound consequences of your poor choices is a problem in only one of the parties, and one does not need to be partisan to see this, as even many former Republicans are showing.

            1. Yes, “US.” I was referring to members of the reality-based community. How odd that the cultists see us as “trolls,” and in a spectacular case of projection, imply those of us resistant to right wing propaganda are the ones following the herd.

          1. “Are you “ready for Hillary” Chikipop?” <—– An adult asked this question?

            Yes! Absolutely! As an adult I can – amazingly – measure differences, and have not been susceptible to decades of propaganda from the Right, who successfully stain their opponents in order to win.

            I wonder why someone would be concerned with a candidate from 2016, though.

            1. Chikkipop —

              You wrote: “Blindness to the profound consequences of your poor choices is a problem in only one of the parties…”

              Thus, I asked if you were “ready for Hillary.”

              If you still don’t understand my point, then I can’t help you.

              1. Oy. Clearly there is nothing here to understand.

                In fact, I’d avoid clarifying too if I were you; if your initial response is any indication, it would surely show how misguided you were. You wouldn’t want me destroying your point, would you?

                1. “You wouldn’t want me destroying your point, would you?”

                  I would. Please do. Show us what you got, Chikkipop.

                  1. “Show us what you got, Chikkipop”

                    Why, I’d be happy to! As soon as you clarify what your point is. I wrote “Blindness to the profound consequences of your poor choices is a problem in only one of the parties…”

                    To which you replied “Are you “ready for Hillary” Chikipop?”

                    When you explain what you think you meant, I will indeed show you what I’ve got, which in all likelihood will go over your head, but since rational folks may be reading it’ll still have some value.

                    I await your explanation.

                    1. “When you explain what you think you meant, I will indeed show you what I’ve got…”

                      I know what I meant, Chikkipop. I’m asking for you to ‘destroy my point’….that is, if you understand my point, which I don’t think you do.

                  2. “I know what I meant, Chikkipop. I’m asking for you to ‘destroy my point’….that is, if you understand my point, which I don’t think you do.”

                    I asked you to clarify. This means either I actually don’t get your point, OR that further explanation will reveal that I DO, and give me more to go on. Clarify your point, so I can destroy it, as I have all your other comments from wingerland.

                    1. “…so I can destroy it, as I have all your other comments from wingerland.”

                      Chikkipop — in the words of the great Steven Tyler, “dream on”…

            2. “decades of propaganda from the Right, who successfully stain their opponents in order to win.”

              It’s not like Harry Reid or Barack Obama or Bill Clinton, or any other Democrats outrageously lie and slander and “stain” their opponents in order to win, right Chikkipop?

              Lest we forget, it was the Democrats who nominated John Kerry. Sorry, but I didn’t vote for Mr. and Mrs. Ketchup.

              1. “t’s not like Harry Reid or Barack Obama or Bill Clinton, or any other Democrats outrageously lie and slander and “stain” their opponents in order to win, right Chikkipop?

                Correct. They do not do these things on anything approaching the level the right does it. I’m an adult and I can measure things! 😉

                (Sorry for all the winks, but fer goodness sakes, you folks are like children. No wonder you vote for con artists!)

                “Lest we forget, it was the Democrats who nominated John Kerry. Sorry, but I didn’t vote for Mr. and Mrs. Ketchup.”

                Yeah……. uhhhh…. lest we forget…… uhhhh…. forget what? Whatcha got on Kerry (I’m afraid to ask)? 😉

                Whew! Textbook wingnut comments, one after the other, each offering more confirmation of just how far down the rabbit hole the right has gone. You can’t make this stuff up!

                1. “Correct. They do not do these things on anything approaching the level the right does it.”

                  So you agree the Dems lie and slander and smear in order to win, but the right does it better?

                  “Whatcha got on Kerry?”

                  I’m saying that the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by nominating Kerry. He lost, right? And given a choice between Mr. Ketchup and “W,” I chose “W”…..this is not hard, Chikki.

                  1. Kerry was a better SOS than Hillary was.

                    And I don’t hold it against him that he slew those VC prisoners that he tied up first, back in Vietnam. It was probably expedient under the circumstances.

                    1. “he slew those VC prisoners that he tied up first, back in Vietnam.”

                      He did? Where did you find out about this?

                  2. “So you agree the Dems lie and slander and smear in order to win, but the right does it better?”

                    Some Dems will say things I don’t like, but this is nothing unexpected, as no one is perfect. They play more fairly than Repubs, who wouldn’t win unless they convinced their largely ignorant and fearful base of a bunch of nonsense. Republicans have won the popular vote in presidential elections just once in the last 30 years. They try to purge voter rolls on a phony basis, and claim voter fraud is a concern when it’s extremely uncommon. They gerrymander ruthlessly if they can get away with it (politicians picking their voters instead of the other way around). In just one example, in 2012 Democrats won over 50% in Michigan, N. Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, yet this got them 17 seats. Repubs got 36!

                    “I’m saying that the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by nominating Kerry. He lost, right? ”

                    How sad that people see the Dems as having shot themselves in the foot for offering a superior candidate, but don’t see the fact that “W” brought the economy to its knees with an unnecessary war that cost trillions, while giving tax breaks to the rich and, once again as all Repubs do, being a lapdog for corporate interests! You shot the whole country in the foot with your misguided vote for the drunken fratboy who’d have done nothing if his dad wasn’t who he was.

                    Kerry was far and away the better candidate, but because people can’t measure very well, the whole country suffers. In fact, it was the worst recession since the Depression. The economy is always in worse shape after Repubs get done with it.

                    None of this matters. For example, if corruption and incompetence mattered, folks like you wouldn’t vote for outright frauds like Trump. Instead, you’re just horrified when you (think) you see it in Hillary, even though it is nowhere near approaching what Trump has done and is currently doing. It’s about your social views; you wanna stick it to them libs; you don’t care the least bit about “corruption.”

                    You’re the “real” American. You got yer guns, yer god, and yer old-fashioned values, and you think change is scary. Libs represent everything you’re afraid of. The right has done its job well, and you believe them. They’re playing you by appealing to your fears. It’s what they do.

                    1. “You got yer guns, yer god, and yer old-fashioned values ….”
                      *****************

                      What’s “scary” is that you somehow think that can all be taken away without one hell of a fight. The libs think blood in the street is for other countries. I assure you it can run here, too. If they keep pushing people to do as they say, you’ll see a backlash that makes Rwanda look like a May Pole Dance. There are 300,000 million guns, trillions of rounds of ammunition and a building consensus in some circles here that something is definitely wrong with Dims tyrannical psychology. That’s a recipe for a powder keg-like explosion that will stop the economy, empty the campuses of the indoctrination centers, and result in a lot fewer occupants of the US. It’s exactly the recipe of 1861 and now the losing side then is better armed and infinitely more industrialized. That war cost around 750,000 American lives. The population was largely rural and numbered 31 million. We are now urbanized (i.e. closer together) and the population is ten-fold larger. Care to take a guess on casualty figures for an all-out US civil war? I wouldn’t and that’s why the Dims had better realize all the consequences of a religious zeal to enact their unpopular agenda. The army won’t save them like it did Lincoln.

                      Most members of the animal kingdom clearly signal an impending attack in an effort to avoid a fight to the death; the Dims should recognize that.

                    2. Libs represent everything you’re afraid of.

                      You mistake opposition for fear. That miscalculation will be your undoing; peacefully or violently. Take your pick.

                    3. “Chikkipoo Who?” said: “Some Dems will say things I don’t like, but this is nothing unexpected, as no one is perfect.”

                      To which I say: Sometimes Trump will say things I don’t like, but this is nothing unexpected, as no one is perfect.

                    4. Chikkipoo says, “They…claim voter fraud is a concern when it’s extremely uncommon.”

                      RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! interefered in our election! and caused Hillary Clinton to lose! Donald Trump cheated to win with the help of Russia! Collusion!!

                      Stacey Abrams WON the Georgia governors race! that she actually lost by over 50k votes. Republicans cheated to win! She is the rightful winner of the election!! Oh yes she is!! Republicans cheated to win!!! Abrams has never conceded.

                      “Extremely uncommon” in your language means: only when Democrats lose elections.

                      Who’s the “threat” to our fragile democracy? Those who refuse to accept the results of elections? That’s the Democrats, my friend.

                    5. Chikkipoo says: “even though you’re just horrified when you (think) you see (corruption and incompetence) in Hillary…”

                      Sweetheart, we don’t ‘think’ we see it, it’s documented. Were you not paying attention for the past 30 years? Did you not see the blatant pay for play scam she was running out of the State Dept? The chummy friendship she had with Harvey Weinstein? How she destroyed the women who came forward to accuse her husband of rape and sexual assault? On and on it goes. She lost the 2016 election due to her own arrogance, sense of entitlement, extremely poor judgment and her own incompetence. Period. “Most qualified ever” my ass.

                    6. “Libs represent everything you’re afraid of.”

                      If by that you mean squashing free speech, ending private health insurance, implementing the Green New Deal, free healthcare, education, and welfare to illegal immigrants, open borders, abolishing the Electoral College, raising taxes, and confiscating the guns…then yes, Libs represent everything I’m afraid of for the sake of the country.

        1. Chikkipop – Trump is not a conservative. In fact it was the conservative wing of the Republican Party that started the NeverTrumpers.

          1. “Trump is not a conservative.” Agreed! But modern-day conservatives are his fierce defenders. And these “Never Trumpers” supported regressive conservative ideas until they reached their “bridge too far” moment with Trump. They are to be applauded for at least recognizing who he is, but they must recognize their roles in it all. This article is a good read about that: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2018/12/14/feature/anti-trump-conservatives-want-to-reverse-the-gops-destruction-but-they-helped-light-the-fuse/

            Here’s an excerpt with Max Boot’s thoughts on his own role: “Upon closer examination, it’s obvious that the whole history of modern conservatism is permeated with racism, extremism, conspiracy-mongering, ignorance, isolationism, and know-nothingism,” he writes. With the convert’s zeal (Boot switched from Republican to independent the day after the 2016 election), the author now glimpses conservatism’s dark side. “It’s amazing how little you can see when your eyes are closed!” he writes. Boot, who began subscribing to National Review at age 13, admits here that he had never read Barry Goldwater’s “actual words,” and now that he has, he has decided the late Arizona senator and conservative luminary was an extremist. (I hear that Goldwater may even have given a speech to that effect.) It’s a remarkable admission for a self-described movement conservative and “sophisticate.” Boot confesses to have undergone a decades-long “brainwashing,” at times having simply parroted standard conservative views without grasping the underlying issues.

            “I have spent most of my life as part of a political movement that has revealed itself to be morally and intellectually bankrupt,” Boot writes. “This is a chastening lesson about the price of loyalty.” It is also a revealing lesson on the insularity and posturing of the conservative intellectual community. The author concludes his book professing his reasonableness in a series of arenas: pro-environment, pro-gun-control and pro-immigration, as well as pro-free-trade, pro-fiscal-conservatism, strong on defense. Boot now realizes he is a “Rockefeller Republican,” which is to say an extinct one.

              1. “Max Boot? Seriously?”

                Love it!!!! That was perfect!

                Anyone who leaves the fold is a “loser” as Dear Leader would say. Classic cult behavior.

                When he was a card-carrying conservative he was just fine. As soon as he comes to his senses and realizes what he’s been a part of, those still in the cult act like “Seriously? Max Boot?” etc.

                Jennifer Rubin, William Kristol, George Will, Bret Stephens, Max Boot, Rick Wilson, Charles Sykes, Jeff Flake, and a ton of others (including many current politicians & White House staff, who only say things off the record!), all of these people are losers, right?

                I’d suggest an article for you from a couple of reasonable political scholars. Well worth a read, but it’s from a “deep state” newspaper, so ya gotta watch out, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

                “We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.”

                “The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

                “When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country’s challenges.”

                Yeah, Max Boot. Seriously.

                  1. “Actually, Gallup reports the share of voters who ‘strongly disapprove’ of Trump was about 41% when last measured. It’s infrequently measured by Gallup. The share who ‘strongly dissaproved’ of Obama in August of 2014 was…39%.

                    The sorosphere isn’t sending us their best.”

                    Republicans have won the popular vote in presidential elections just once in the last 30 years.

                    And while I’m more concerned with the long view (the judgment of history), you’re still wrong.

                    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/ Go to this site and scroll down to where it says “How Trump compares with past presidents.” Select “Disapproval rating”

                    Roll over the Obama chart and you’ll see the comparison with Trump’s numbers.

                    Let me know what you find so I can report it to Soros.

                    1. Chikkipop – wasn’t 538 the one who gave Hillary an 80% chance of beating Trump on Election Day?

                1. Chikki wrote: “Jennifer Rubin, William Kristol, George Will, Bret Stephens, Max Boot, Rick Wilson, Charles Sykes, Jeff Flake, and a ton of others (including many current politicians & White House staff, who only say things off the record!), all of these people are losers, right?”

                  Right.

            1. Max Booty say what? who cares. Sounds like a zilch to me. I think i read him once about 15 years ago.

              What’s a conservative anyhow? I don’t know what that means. This is all about the American people versus the managerial elites.

              It’s clear there’s a lot of phonies in the Republican party, which is why I stopped voting for them in many cycles, before Trump showed up.

              I’ll give you an example. Go find me 1,000 guys in flyover who don’t have graduate degrees, who work for a living, in the private sector. I’ll bet at least a third will be registered Democrats, but 95% will be secretly pro-gun, anti-illegal-immigration, anti-free-trade, anti wars in the middle east. A smaller number but I bet still about 4 out of 5 will be pro Trump whether they say so or not. Oh, it’s not all crackers either. I have met more than a few nonwhite guys who like Trump too. Most all, Trump appeals to men, who have a pair!

              There is one way in which the media is right about weak support for Trump. University educated, public sector employed women don’t like him. And, what their male relatives need to do, is sit them down and give them a firm lecture in common sense, and some fierce ultimatums to straighten them out!

              Unfortunately, the wispy bearded and overly educated stratum of men of American men who have been fed too much soy in their lives, become hormonal eunuchs, and show a lack of common sense where matters of household unity management are concerned. This problem needs to be solved fast. It’s up to men to do it.

              This is part of the reason why I’m not a religious follower anymore. I’m not an apostate but I’m not observant, either. They don’t get a nickel from me either, anymore. Don’t wait for Christian pastors to do much to help, they generally wont. Don’;t bother shopping around, it’s a waste of time. Fire the people on your team who don’t cooperate and hire new ones is the fastest way to build a cooperative unit. Don’t wait, take action and do it for yourselves.

              1. “Most all, Trump appeals to men, who have a pair!”

                Best line of the comment, by far! 😉

                Yep, that stereotype of Repubs thinking they’re the manly men is dead on.

                Honorable mention for the “overly educated stratum” comment though; reminds me of the Dover trial, where creationists were all upset they couldn’t teach their little story in schools. My favorite moment from that trial was this quote: “We’ve been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture.” — Pastor Ray Mummert of Dover, PA

                Yeah, them smart folks, up to no good agin! 😉

          1. Couldn’t see a “reply” button for this gem, so I’ll do it here.

            mespo727272 says:November 6, 2019 at 4:07 PM
            “You got yer guns, yer god, and yer old-fashioned values ….”
            *****************

            “What’s “scary” is that you somehow think that can all be taken away without one hell of a fight.”

            No; what’s scary is you Cons are dimwitted enough to think anyone wants to take it all away. This is yet another example of how you guys have swallowed the right’s propaganda. If they get you thinking this way, they get your vote. You’re getting played.

            If you want your guns and your imaginary friends and your backwards values, you can have them. But if they infringe on those of us in the reality-based world, we’ll push back.

            As for all your tough “civil war” talk, I can assure you we’ll beat your regressive butts just like we did the last time. Cons think libs are pushovers, but it’s another of your stereotypes. There are many honorable people who will not stand for your behavior, and you will find out, should you attempt violence as a solution to your misguided fears. Hear me now, believe me later.

            Your talk is like that of a nutter in a remote cabin, preparing for his imagined shootout with the evil authorities. It’s childish, but dangerous.

            And here’s your best gem of the lot: “the Dims had better realize all the consequences of a religious zeal to enact their unpopular agenda.”

            The con-dims had better realize the >>>majority of people supporting something<<>>> majority<<<< FAVOR what liberals are trying to achieve I'll be happy to repost it.

            As the adult in the room I clearly do not wish for such an awful and violent event, but I will caution you that if your ignorant and misguided fears cause you and your little minority group of zealots to throw the ultimate tantrum, you'll be quite shocked at what the great majority of us can do.

            Go get some toy soldiers and play out your childish war games in the back yard.

            My goodness.

            1. OK, part of that got mangled somehow.

              “The con-dims had better realize the >>>majority of people supporting something<>> majority<<<< FAVOR what liberals are trying to achieve I'll be happy to repost it."

              The intent was to point out that the majority of people in the country SUPPORT liberal ideas, so calling it an "unpopular agenda" is flat-out wrong. Also, I said I'd repost details about surveys showing how people think about issues if you didn't see my earlier comment.

    1. enigma – Jim Jones did not use Kool Aid, he used a flavored drink to cover the taste. He was too cowardly to drink it and had himself shot in the head.

      1. Paul – Either way, blindly following Trump will lead people to the same place. I almost pity Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, and Mitch McConnell who have shredded their dignity and credibility while praising their fearless leader and blinding themselves to his behavior. Lindsey Graham will go to a special place in hell. He stood by his best friend (McCain) until he didn’t. He defended his friend Jeff Sessions )”There’ll be holy hell to pay if Sessions s fired”) until he didn’t. His daily changing standard as to what he’ll find troubling about Trump extorting Ukraine as his red line gets proven to have occured every day. Now he just won’t read or listen to any evidence. The question now is; hom many will be following the lemmings off the cliff?

        1. Enigma: this is what the lefty Democrats are selling that the American people aren’t buying: end private health insurance, Green New Deal, abolish the Electoral College, raise taxes, and confiscate the guns.

          Now let’s talk about lemmings going over the cliff.

        2. Mitch had dignity and credibility? I don’t know about that. You may not be too familiar with him. But you’re quite charitable! lol

          I have no affection for most of the Republicans besides Trump. Either they back him or they are done. That’s their choice and I got mine. I’m just a peasant out here in flyover and they’ve done precious little for me. If it wasn’t for Trump they wouldn’t get me to lift a finger or give them a penny. They’re mostly fakes but if they know how to toe the line, then they can stay. And trust me there’s millions more who think exactly like me out there. They better stick to the program or we stick it to them.

    2. “Do you notice you’ve thrown away your values to support a maniac?”

      Let’s talk about who’s been throwing away their values, selling their souls for money, power, acceptance, shall we? Let’s talk about ‘falling in line.’ And it’s not hardworking America-loving Trump supporters. Nope, it’s Democrat-loving pro athletes selling their souls to China, it’s Hollywood selling thier souls to the likes of Harvey Weinstein, it’s the DNC selling out to the corrupt Clinton cabal. It’s the media selling out to Democrats. It’s ABC covering up for Epstein. It’s NBC covering up Weinstein. It’s the Democrat political leaders telling us to shut up and go away, that we are not welcome anywhere, that our opinions are not welcome. When you talk about throwing away values, American values, it’s the Democrat party you are talking about.

      1. Three words come to my mind when I think about the Democrat party today: tyrannical, maniacal, diabolical. Three words come to my mind when I think about what Trump is doing for the country: putting America first.

        1. Nice work, Anon! All that Fox News watching and swimming in right wing propaganda has had its effect, I see. It’s amazing what they can do with folks like you who are easily conned. And even more amazing is how you guys got it all figured out so well you put a con artist who launders money for Russian mobsters in the highest office!

          Yet another wonderful choice by the folks who brought us a B-movie ACTOR and the dimwitted, well-connected son of a former president. What’s next for you guys; an ACTUAL clown?! Oh, wait, you did that in 2016…..

          1. Amazing how the unidentifiable far left can continue to spout made up zero zip nada without any proof or facts and expect to be taken seriously..

            OK. I seriously dislike their programmers complete lack of talent while rejecting the machine parts of The Collective’s lack of human presence. Ad Machina

            Try three in one oil applied donkey style

            1. “the unidentifiable far left can continue to spout made up zero zip nada without any proof or facts ”

              Can’t wait for some juicy examples! (Hmmm, wonder why none were offered in the first place.)

          2. I see, so it would have been better for America if we put a corrupt, lying, incompetent, power-hungry, coattail-riding wife of a rapist and Epstein island ‘regular’ in the Oval Office instead? Is that what you are saying?

            1. “so it would have been better for America if we put a corrupt, lying, incompetent, power-hungry, coattail-riding wife of a rapist and Epstein island ‘regular’ in the Oval Office instead? Is that what you are saying?”

              No. I was talking about Hillary Clinton. 😉

              She is vastly more qualified than the current moron in chief, and he is >>>>actually<<<< corrupt, lying and incompetent, and far worse than the caricature you unwittingly BELIEVE about Hillary, but of course this does not matter to the cultists. He is what you folks want.

              The "deep state" is out to get him, right? Meanwhile the wingers have been after Hillary for decades and if 1/4 of what they said was true, she should be locked up. Wonder why they just can't seem to get her. 😉

              They've investigated her how many times now? I think it was 8 just for Benghazi alone, never mind them dang emails. 😉

              Dang; them winger prosecutors can't seem to catch them lib crooks.

              (You just can't overstate how gullible wingers are!)

                    1. “If you were up-to-date, you would know who JW was.”

                      Oh. Well then, guess I’m up to date now.

                      Can’t wait til they publish their findings! After all, a multiyear State Department probe of emails that were sent to former secretary of state Hillary Clinton’s private computer server concluded there was no systemic or deliberate mishandling of classified information by department employees, according to a report submitted to Congress this month.

                      Sounds like a job for “JW”! (Cue up Superman theme song) 😉

                    2. Chikkipop – JW forced the State Dept to “find” a lot of the emails that it said were okay. Now most of us know the State Dept is in the tank for Hillary, so that wasn’t a surprise. JW did find that emails were going to a foreign source and Hillary is going to have to do written interrogatories. If she does not comply, the judge will do it is person.

                    3. “the State Dept is in the tank for Hillary”

                      Ooooh! That is simply an exquisite Trumpsterism!

                      (Visits to Trumpland are astonishing; you just can’t make this stuff up!)

                    4. Chikkipop – if you want to trade ad hominems we can do that or we can have a legitimate conversation. Which is it?

                    5. “she ran a crappy campaign and if you want to measure differences, then do it. List her qualifications against Trump’s. BTW, that complete moron beat the smartest woman in the world.”

                      Doesn’t matter what kind of campaign she ran. The majority correctly voted for her because she was vastly more qualified than Trump, and if you don’t know how to make such comparisons, it is no surprise you had the poor judgment to support a con man.

                      A complete moron winning depends upon enough ignorant voters in the right places. Believe me, I know there are many of you.

                    6. “if you want to trade ad hominems we can do that or we can have a legitimate conversation. Which is it?”

                      We can have a legitimate conversation when you stop posting nonsense about entire government entities being “in the tank” for anyone. Please don’t expect adults to take your gun club talk seriously. Keep that stuff to your crowd, where all manner of conspiracies are par for the course.

                    7. Chikkipop – we have seen the actions of the State Dept, DoJ and FBI at various levels. Lying does not help the conversation.

                    8. “just couldn’t make that list could you?”

                      Sorry, but the fact that I would have to is just too depressing. I don’t need to be reminded how incapable so many people are of measuring. I get that every day on the news.

                      For you folks it’s not about facts. What you’d be absolutely horrified if Obama did is defensible if your guy does it. Pure tribalism. It’s both extremely immature and ruinous to the country.

                      You voted for a con man, and you defend your choice. History will not look kindly upon you.

                    9. ” we have seen the actions”

                      Oooh….. we have seen the actions! Scary.

                      And there’s this pizza place where they molest kids, and, and , and…. we have seen the actions!

                    10. “as a historian, I know I am on the right side of history.”

                      Ha! One bat guano conspiracy comment after another…… but “as a historian…”

                      You just can’t make this stuff up! 😉

                  1. Chikkipoo says “Who?”

                    You just can’t overstate how gullible and uninformed left-wingers are, eh, Chikki?

                    Judicial Watch.

                    1. OMG. Another hilarious comment?! My belly is hurting from all the guffaws!

                      Sorry, but I don’t pay a great deal of attention to wingnut orgs to the point of being familiar with them by their initials. This lunacy is common currency for you guys; the rest of us prefer reality-based stuff.

              1. “She is vastly more qualified.”

                Oh no, Chikkipop, she was “the most qualified EVER”….to lose to a reality TV star.

                hahahahaha….and she ran a lousy, losing campaign, focused on winning the popular vote….hahahaha….but it wasn’t her fault she lost….it was RUSSIA!!! It was the vast right wing conspiracy!!! It was troll farms in Macedonia!!!

                1. Anon, you’re a vast repository of winger comedy!

                  And yes, it was indeed all of those factors. But the biggest single factor was — and still is — the extremely poor judgment of a large segment of American voters.

                  1. “the biggest single factor was — and still is — the extremely poor judgment of a large segment of American voters.”

                    SEE HERE IS THE GUY WHO REALLY SAYS WHAT HE MEANS

                    HE’S INSULTING THE VOTERS!

                    HOWEVER — A LOT OF NORMAL PEOPLE ARE DEMOCRAT VOTERS TOO

                    who actually like Trump and judge him by his works — even if they don’t say it with the loudmouths in the room shouting at anybody with an independent opinion!

                    Join us in making America great. cast your vote for Trump. If it’s blue all the way down the ballot from there who cares. This one great leader is a historic champion of the people! He has shamed the phonies of both parties! He’s stuck his finger in their eyes a hundred times, sticking up for regular people against the chattering bureaucrats class and their lackeys. Pay him back one way: vote!

                    Don’t let the elites and their minions trolling cyberspace fool you with their insults.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_projects_supported_by_George_Soros

                    1. Mr K, you are a very funny feller!

                      “SEE HERE IS THE GUY WHO REALLY SAYS WHAT HE MEANS

                      HE’S INSULTING THE VOTERS!”

                      Just calling it like I see it. You guys have been clueless for years, but 2016 was off the charts. I’m aware of the stereotype of you manly men hating “elites” and all them smart folks who don’t work with their hands, but I’m not gonna coddle; if you make ignorant choices I’ll say so.

                      “a historic champion of the people!”

                      You DO come up with some gems! (And grand delusions)

                      And that Soros list looks pretty good. He seems like a pretty good guy from what I’ve seen. (Of course, Wiki warns that the list may be unreliable, but no biggee)

                  2. “Chikkipoo Who” is my new name for you, sweetheart.

                    Russia Russia Russia! If there was actual collusion, don’t you think Mueller and his team would have uncovered it during the two years of intense worldwide investigating they did? Of course you don’t. Keep on believin’ my friend.

                  3. Chikkipoo Who says: “But the biggest single factor was — and still is — the extremely poor judgment of a large segment of American voters.”

                    WRONG! The biggest single factor was – and still is — the extremely poor judgment of….HILLARY CLINTON and her losing, poorly run, badly managed failed presidential campaign.

                    1. “WRONG! The biggest single factor was ”

                      You still ain’t gettin it. I don’t care how bad her campaign was, or even whether or not I wanted her to be the candidate (which I didn’t).

                      What I cared about was who was the better of the two candidates running, and Hillary was superior in every way. I can measure differences. You folks, on a daily basis, prove you can’t be trusted with the measuring tape. Trump won because you all threw a tantrum, putting a self-serving con artist & complete moron into the highest office. Shame on you.

                      The rest of the world and the majority of Americans are appalled at Trump, but you tantrum-throwers know better, right?

                    2. Chikkipop – she ran a crappy campaign and if you want to measure differences, then do it. List her qualifications against Trump’s. BTW, that complete moron beat the smartest woman in the world.

                    3. Chikki — “You still ain’t gettin it. I don’t care how bad her campaign was, or even whether or not I wanted her to be the candidate (which I didn’t).”

                      No, YOU ain’t gettin it, Chikki. And yes, we agree, her campaign was BAD. Very bad. And people, most Democrats, did NOT want her to be the candidate. But she was. Why wouldn’t the news media show the protests going on at the Democrat convention? Hiding the truth from voters? How’d that happen, Chikki?

                      Chikki says: “What I cared about was who was the better of the two candidates running, and Hillary was superior in every way.”

                      That’s your opinion, Chikki. Her “superiority” lost to Trump. THAT is the reality YOU refuse to accept. Hillary is a loser. Deal with it, Chikki.

                    4. The rest of the world and the majority of Americans are appalled at Trump, but you tantrum-throwers know better, right?

                      Actually, Gallup reports the share of voters who ‘strongly disapprove’ of Trump was about 41% when last measured. It’s infrequently measured by Gallup. The share who ‘strongly dissaproved’ of Obama in August of 2014 was…39%.

                      The sorosphere isn’t sending us their best.

                      https://news.gallup.com/search/default.aspx?q=strong+approval+disapproval

        2. You’re wrong about Democrats. Many Democrat voters are decent normal people, who are perfectly willing to vote their conscience either way. Many just have traditional or family affiliations. I urge you never to abuse the party in a way that may antagonize the many good people of the Democrat party and that even includes a lot of minor party functionaries and some candidates.

          What happens is, the Dem Leadership is acting in concert with certain plutocratic forces who send their minions out into cyberspace to talk trash and troll. Don’t be sucked into it.

          The Trump supporter base contains millions of people who are not party loyalists. We welcome their support, whatever form it may take.

          Indeed some of the strongest allies “run silent, run deep”

    3. Enigma,

      We don’t believe in your value system. See, this is our very own form of “cultural diversity.”
      Please be more tolerant of your fellow Americans.

      Or is this just precisely what we can expect from “multiculturalism:”
      only the multiple cultures will be tolerated that your side likes!

      be careful with that— you never knew when “your side” may fragment and then boom! you’re on the wrong side of it, too.

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