Worse Than Watergate? The Calls For Impeachment Outstrip Historical Sources

Below is my column in The Hill newspaper on the recent comparison of Chairman Adam Schiff and others to Watergate. It is not the first time that the rhetoric has outpaced the law of impeachment. However, if we are to have a meaningful exchange about impeachment, we should make a good-faith effort to agree on the historical facts.

Here is the column:

“This is beyond anything Nixon did.” Those words declared by Democratic House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff capture the vast constitutional challenge for the House Judiciary Committee as it heads toward its announced hearing on the impeachment of President Trump. There is still disagreement, to use a Clintonian twist, of what “this” is.

Yet whatever “this” is, it is not Nixonian, at least not yet. Schiff seems to struggle to reduce the harsh allegations against Richard Nixon in order to elevate those against Donald Trump. Schiff explained that Watergate was merely “a third-rate burglary of the Democratic headquarters” while “what we are talking about here is the withholding of recognition in that White House meeting” of the Ukrainian president and of “the withholding of military aid to an ally at war. This is beyond anything Nixon did.”

Schiff is not alone. Neal Katyal, who served in the Justice Department under President Obama, said that the Ukraine allegations are “in many ways even worse” than the alleged obstruction by President Nixon of his impeachment investigation. Katyal added that it is now “all there” in the record. (His analysis is undeniably consistent, as he previously declared that the obstruction case against Trump in the Russia investigation was “devastating” and that there was an easy “road map” for the charges.)

The Nixon impeachment began with a felony crime with the Watergate burglary and then swept to encompass an array of other crimes involving political slush funds, payments of hush money, maintenance of an enemies list, directing tax audits of critics, witness intimidation, multiple instances of perjury and even an alleged kidnapping. In the end, there were nearly 70 officials charged and four dozen found guilty. Nixon was also named as an unindicted conspirator by a grand jury.

However, according to Schiff and Katyal, all those federal crimes appear to pale in comparison to the Ukraine controversy. Katyal said on air that Trump has denied Congress the testimony of former national security adviser John Bolton and “a whole bunch of other people.” This on its face, Katyal claimed, constitutes “unprecedented obstruction, in many ways even worse than President Nixon during Watergate. They have gagged every single executive branch employee from going and testifying.”

But that is not exactly unprecedented. Take the Obama administration position, for instance, on the investigation of “Fast and Furious,” which was a moronic gunwalking operation in which the government arranged for the illegal sale of powerful weapons to drug cartels in order to track their movement. One such weapon was used to murder Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, and Congress began a justified oversight investigation. Some members called for impeachment proceedings. But Obama invoked executive privilege and barred essential testimony and documents. The Obama administration then ran out the clock in the judiciary, despite a legal rejection of its untenable and extreme claim by a federal court.

During its litigation, the Obama administration argued that the courts had no authority over its denial of such witnesses and evidence to Congress. Judge Amy Berman Jackson, who has tried Trump associate Roger Stone, ruled that “endorsing the proposition that the executive may assert an unreviewable right to withhold materials from the legislature would offend the Constitution more than undertaking to resolve the specific dispute that has been presented here. After all, the Constitution contemplates not only a separation, but a balance, of powers.” Katyal is likely familiar with this precedent. He was acting solicitor general of the Justice Department at the start of “Fast and Furious” at the start of the controversy.

Presidents have often gone to court to litigate conflicts over Congress calling top White House officials whose conversations are ordinarily protected by executive privilege. George Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama all barred evidence on that ground, and presidents are entitled to receive judicial review in conflicts between the legislative and executive branches. In the Obama litigation over the blocking of evidence, Jackson reaffirmed that such judicial review is part of the constitutional system of allowing courts to “determine whether another branch has exceeded its power.” Citing two Supreme Court rulings, Jackson added that it would “elevate and fortify” one branch to dictate the results in such conflicts.

Putting the “unprecedented” claim aside, it is not true that the Trump administration “gagged every single executive branch employee from going and testifying.” Yes, the Trump administration did tell executive officials not to testify, and I have disagreed with that position as well as the underlying claims of privilege and immunities. However, several officials have testified despite the White House position. This includes many core witnesses in the impeachment hearings, such as National Security Council Director of European Affairs Alexander Vindman, Ambassador William Taylor, Ambassador Gordon Sondland, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent, Acting Assistant Secretary of State Philip Reeker, Under Secretary of State David Hale, Deputy Associate Director of the Office of Management and Budget Mark Sandy, and foreign service officer David Holmes. All remain in federal service in good standing.

I have written that the case for impeachment could be greatly enhanced by the witnesses not subpoenaed by the House. Democrats burned two months during which they could have subpoenaed and litigated access to Bolton as well as Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani, Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and others. Schiff has simply said that he refuses to be tied up in the courts. However, a lower court decision that former White House counsel Don McGahn should testify on the Russian matters shows that the courts are indeed ready to issue such orders.

With impeachment, such review can be expedited. Yet Democrats chose not to go to court even though the refusal of an order would be a clear obstruction case if not stayed by a higher court. It is difficult to see the “devastating” aspect of such an incomplete record against Trump as it exists today, let alone the claim that Trump has “out-Nixoned” Nixon. That is why, whatever “this” is, in the words of Schiff, it is not Watergate. That does not mean it is not impeachable, but the House will have to build its case to that level, not lower historical impeachments to “this” level.

Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) is the chair of public interest law at George Washington University and served as the last lead counsel in a Senate impeachment trial in defense of Judge Thomas Porteous. He has testified with other constitutional experts in the Clinton impeachment.

270 thoughts on “Worse Than Watergate? The Calls For Impeachment Outstrip Historical Sources”

  1. The jig* is up! Jerry Nadler — rather than calling his best fact witnesses — plans to call law professors in Day 1 of the impeachment hearings to “offer assessments on impeachment.” As any lawyer (Jerry, Fordham, Judiciary Committee) knows, the first witnesses are the most important witnesses. This snooze-fest is designed to tank the rest of the proceedings in terms of TV ratings. Anybody you know want to hear a bunch of hand-picked, DIM Ivy Leaguers discussing THEIR views of constitutional impeachment. Unleash the polysyllabic words of war!!

    PLeeeeease….

    *The Elizabethan era the word is slang for a practical joke or a trick.

  2. Jonathan Turley should have also focused more on the Bush Administration. From pre-9/11 warrantless spying to FISA violations to torture techniques adopted from the Spanish Inquisition. One could make a strong argument that if we had held those felonies and war crimes accountable, it would have created a “deterrent effect” to future AGs at DOJ. Since the Bushies got away with it, it created an incentive for future law breaking. Following Watergate, the FISA laws were created as the exclusive – one and only – legal path for presidents to follow. Since the Bush attorneys are no longer in office, why can’t they be indicted or at minimum have a Leahy-style “Truth Commission” (conditional immunity that waives most prison time, for most officials, in exchange for truth-telling and reforms).

    1. why? because the NSA continues mass dragnet collection of citizen metadata, that’s why. The Deep State approves.

      But you guys keep on pretending that’s not an issue.

    2. I agree until Bush et al are brought to justice, we are a lawless society unless you are poor then you get more law than you need

  3. Education kills the e. Coli in the soiled talking points used by both sides. Before these lofty agents of lawmaking speak, they should review history to make sure their family has not insulted Justice with the same trick they are accusing their neighbor of performing. Maybe if they did that we would be blessed with the silence of antarctica.

    1. A lot of blabber to say “both sides” blah blah blah; the dems are out maneuvered by amoral rethuglicans all the time.

  4. If there was no watergate break in, the big story would have been about the call girls that the democrats were bringing in to entertain them.

  5. ABOUT ‘FAST & FURIOUS’..

    REPUBLICANS SOUGHT FOR YEARS TO UNDERMINE BUREAU

    Congressional Republicans have been upset at the management at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which authorized a botched sting operation near the Mexican border that put guns in the hands of drug criminals. But Republican leaders, responding to complaints from gun-rights lobbyists, have refused to confirm a director for the bureau since it was split from the Treasury Department eight years ago.

    “They have had nothing but acting directors. Do you wonder why some things would go wrong there?” said John Killorin, a retired special agent from Atlanta and president of the ATF Assn. “This is a major law enforcement agency, and they need a confirmed director with the full responsibility and authority to run it.”

    President Obama’s nominee, an ATF special agent from Chicago, has yet to have a Senate hearing.

    President George W. Bush faced the same problem. His nominee, Michael J. Sullivan, was a well-regarded U.S. attorney in Boston and an ally of then-Atty. Gen John Ashcroft. But Idaho Sens. Larry Craig and Michael D. Crapo, both Republicans, blocked his confirmation in the Senate in response to complaints from an Idaho gun dealer.

    “People said to me at the time that if Mike Sullivan can’t be confirmed, then no one was going to be confirmed,” recalled Sullivan, who served as acting ATF director while remaining as the top federal prosecutor in Boston. “The agency needs a full-time leader. People there say morale is very low. They have felt abandoned because they didn’t have a leader who had the confidence of the people at the Justice Department and the White House.”

    Eight years ago, Congress removed the bureau from the Treasury Department and made it a separate law enforcement agency under the Justice Department. For the first time, lawmakers put its director under political control by requiring Senate confirmation of the president’s nominee.

    Since then, no one has been confirmed. Both nominees have drawn opposition from gun-rights groups, including the powerful National Rifle Assn. Obama nominated Andrew Traver, the ATF’s special agent in Chicago, to lead the bureau, but his nomination has gone nowhere in the Senate.

    “This president has consistently nominated hardened gun control advocates into positions that restrict the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans,” Erich Pratt, communications director for Gun Owners of America, said in explaining the group’s opposition.

    Gun control advocates say these critics are opposed to the ATF itself.

    “The bottom line is the gun lobby will oppose any nominee who promises to be a strong and effective director of the ATF,” said Dennis Henigan, vice president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “Fast and Furious is what happens when you don’t have a strong director,” he said.

    Two years ago, Kenneth E. Melson, an expert on forensic science, was named the acting director of the ATF. He stepped down last month in the aftermath of the failed sting operation. In his place, Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. named B. Todd Jones, the U.S. attorney in Minnesota, as acting director. Officials said he would commute from Minneapolis, where he continues to hold his prosecutor’s post.

    Edited from: “Republicans Refuse To Confirm Leader For ATF Despite Its Troubles”

    The Los Angeles Times, 9/6/11

    1. Really old garbage there Peter! 2011 wow. you really had to drag out some old stinking corpses to try and scare.

      And the fact is Fast and Furious was an incompetent, bungled sting at best, or something worse, never really clear. The ATF mostly works on stings and entrapments, but,. that’s history for those who know it, and a conspiracy theory for those who deny it.

      Some ATF agents are good, some are really good, but they’re consistently a minority it seems, over decades

      1. Kurtz, the article goes back to 2011 because that’s when the story was fresh. This same story was described by many other sources. I used the L.A. Times just for validation.

        Republicans sought to undermine the ATF. And that effort created an environment in which the ATF was not running as professionally as it should have. Republicans then sought to hang ‘Fast & Furious’ on Obama. Just like they sought to hang The Great Recession on Obama.

        1. I reject their contention that ATF was poorly administered due to Obama. It’s been a problem for decades.

          after Waco disaster, it was not reformed, actually the slide continued under Lloyd Bentsen

          https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1993-05-06-9305070263-story.html

          ATF is the king of entrapments and snitches and so forth. ATF delivers fast and furious convictions of garden variety hoodlums by the bucketloads. They are day in and day out collaring small fry by setting up “possession of weapon with obliterated serial number” felony, just as one example. I’ll spare you the boring explanation of how it’s done.

          Then they use these losers to leverage more arrests for similar trifles. We hear a lot of whining about black guys getting over-charged for drug crimes but is anybody counting how many convictions ATF delivers? There’s an assignment for you bleeding heart social scientists out there if you actually want to see something interesting nobody told you about before.

          Maybe you Democrats think they’re out there finding the next Randy Weaver, ready to buy a 17 and a half inch shotgun. I think that’s a misconception. but you guys keep on thinking that way if you like.

          Fast and furious was a total debacle. They should leave drug gang prosecutions to FBI and DEA.

          1. Kurtz, you’re just saying we shouldn’t have an ATF. Whatever! By that logic Fast & Furious wasn’t Obama’s fault. By that logic the ATF was destined to fail no matter ‘who’ was in office.

            1. Not what i said. Just you talking there. making stuff up.

              I said ATF’s botched operation was not Obama’s fault. You must have missed that.

              ATF was destined to fail no matter who is in office in part because it has way too much latitude for incompetent failures, ranging from Waco to Fast and Furious, because your Democrat party views it as a tool to harass right wingers. Which it actually does not do very much. You probably missed that point as well.

              I think it should be aggressively reformed, i could lay out the specifics, but nobody is electing me dogcatcher so my thoughts don’t really matter do they.

  6. The vilifying of Americans started without remorse with 1990s Clintons “vast right wing conspiracy” and have mushroomed in the last 3 years by Pelosi et al. Their divisive political power grabs and pitting Americans against each other have driven anxiety and depression to levels we have never observed

    The Godless Democrats and MSM wont be happy until they kill Americans in Flyover / Rural States where the prevalence of suicide has trended highest. They also vote against liberal politicians like Hillary

    https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/

    Suicide rates climbed 25.4 percent nationwide from 1999 to 2016.

    …In more than half of states, suicide rates among people age 10 and older rose more than 30 percent.

    The report also found 54 percent of people who died by suicide during the studied time period did not have a mental health condition.

    Of those with no known mental health conditions, 84 percent were male, and 55 percent died by firearm. That compares to 69 percent and 41 percent, respectively, among those with known mental health conditions.

    1. Estovir, it’s shocking you could take a trend like this and blame it on “godlessness promoted by liberals and MSM”. This assertion suggests you haven’t the slightest clue as to what is actually happening.

      Small towns and small cities are dying throughout not just the U.S., but in much of the developed world. The main culprit is GLOBALIZATION. Endless mergers and acquisitions, funded in part by hedge funds, have created a world economy based in mega-cities.

      Here in the U.S. most job growth has been primarily in metro regions with populations of more than a million. Consequently smaller cities are becoming marginalized. What’s more, the residents of those smaller cities ‘feel’ marginalized; which has led to opioid epidemics and rising suicide rates.

      These are horrible trends, of course. Yet Republicans seem deaf to the problem. Trump is determined to dismantle Obamacare, a crucial form of health insurance for rural Americans. Mental Health Care in particular is greatly needed in small towns. But Republicans give only lip service to that need (after mass shootings) and never follow-up.

      1. i would agree with Peter that Globalization is a primary cause.

        but culture wars, in the form of liberalism, yes, that is absolutely an essential part of globalization itself

        the mysterious and often reviled Russian philosopher Aleksandr Dugin identified liberalism as the ideological twin of capitalism, and globalism as their strategy to destroy nations and organic communities and identities as their next series of conquests, en route to more untrammelled access to markets and the “free movement of labor and capital”

        see his book “Fourth Political Theory”

        https://archive.org/details/TheFourthPoliticalTheory

        1. Kurtz, the Culture Wars were announced by Pat Buchanan at the Republican Convention in 1992. To say that liberals sought to marginalize small town America is absolutely bogus.

          1. Not intentionally they didn’t. Liberals often have the best intentions. but the social engineering to fix the perennial problems of existence often causes more problems than they fix. Such as with the alcohol prohibition problem. But the same thing happens with a lot more other social phenomena too.

            So yes the destruction of the family as a viable social unit may not have been intended by most liberals but it’s a consequence of liberal family policies and woman’s lib nonetheless. Today it’s ever more plain to see, that women are radicalized against men in general. Everybody with eyes can see this. Feel free to pretend it’s not a reality if you like.

            The men who suffer from the changes to traditional morays most of all are those on the lower end of the income spectrum. Guys at the billionaire end of the spectrum on down all along the way to the modest millionaire level tend to have more access to females than they ever would have had prior to woman’s lib. It’s the middle on down that suffers from the polygamous effects of family destruction.

            Economic analysis can reveal the negative externalities of social change in ways some experts dont like. I won’t bother to explain it if you are too obtuse to admit it. Tens of thousands have caught on and are spreading the insights under the label “MGTOW”

            1. You apparently forget what liberals did to Vice President Dan Quayle when he spoke against the liberal dogma of single parenting as a sacrament.

              Liberals hate families

              Look at Peter Shill. Clearly he was dropped on his head by an unloving transgender female who wasn’t pleased with the lad. For all his shtick about mental health access, whats his excuse, or does he live in Wyoming? Matthew Shepherd is that you?

              https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1993/04/dan-quayle-was-right/307015/

              Dan Quayle Was Right

              The social-science evidence is in: though it may benefit the adults involved, the dissolution of intact two-parent families is harmful to large numbers of children. Moreover, the author argues, family diversity in the form of increasing numbers of single-parent and stepparent families does not strengthen the social fabric but, rather, dramatically weakens and undermines society

              1. i dont think they hate families but i do think that they believe that families are somehow integral to things like child abuse or oppression of women and so forth.

                now child abuse and neglect are awful, and domestic partner abuse is bad, but, we will still have these evils even if the social institution of the family is destroyed.

                and i believe, there will be zero net gain. i think society will be worse off as a whole

                liberals usually don’t see it that way,. they think the harm to the family is worth it.

                that’s usually how it plays out for most average liberal versus conservative people.

                i was reading a story in bbc about child abuse in Morocco or someplace like that. They put the onus of how people are afraid to report it on “traditional values” etc. Now seriously, nobody except a horrible monster actually wants child abuse…. but liberals are often using the evils of child abuse to attack the family per se.

                I say, please try and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

                1. it’s a little bit like poverty. communism sees the evils of capitalist exploitation and to get rid of these evils, they got rid of the social institution of private property, and the even worse evils of massive starvation ensued

                  so in both USSR and the PRC they ended the failed experiment in agricultural collectivization.

                  some evils are worse than others. get rid of the family entirely and you will see awful harm and a severe breakdown of social order and the continuity of society across generations.

                  and we are seeing exactly that…. even in places like Japan which are very peaceful but the phenomenon of social atomization has advanced so badly that men can’t find wives and don’t even want them– “Grass men,” we call them soy boys; and more recently the problem of many elderly who die alone and unnoticed

                  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/06/japan-panics-about-the-rise-of-herbivores-young-men-who-shun-sex-don-t-spend-money-and-like-taking-walks.html

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi

                  these are problems of social breakdown which attend to westernized liberal societies and yes Japan is very westernized and liberal since the US basically colonized it after the collapse of the WW2 fascist regime 75 years ago

      2. Trump is determined to dismantle Obamacare, a crucial form of health insurance for rural Americans. Mental Health Care in particular is greatly needed in small towns.

        Peter, you don’t eliminate new diagnosis of HIV by providing HIV medicines. You don’t reduce the prevalence of Gonorrhea among your Grindr contacts by providing Antibiotics that treat it. Nor do you reduce IV drug abuse by providing clean sterile needles.

        Creating government programs or increasing mental health coverage will do nothing for the 54%, more than half of people, who died by suicide who did not have a known mental health condition.

        Multigenerational members of families coming together to create a loving, nurturing, supportive environment the way families always have historically, address the many risk factors that lead to suicide. Bill and Hillary would know nothing about these things, nor would godless Democrats who sacrifice newborn babies for decapitation.

        Your ilk promotes a culture of death which is your primary religion. Suicide is just a natural progression of having your dogma-like disregard for life

        All of this goes over your head because you cant imagine life without government being a Nanny State, or in your case, your Daddy

        1. Estovir I think you are a genuine nutcase who promotes religion in an effort to endow himself with ‘respectability’. Nutcases have been playing this charade for hundreds of years. You fit the classic profile.

          Here you claim that mental healthcare would do no good because people killing themselves dont know they have mental issues. Well that’s obviously an awareness problem. Mental healthcare needs to be available and advertised.

          But again, Trump and the Republicans wish to dismantle Obamacare and deny healthcare to common folks. To claim religion is the answer (for small town marginalization) is a baseless, hollow claim.

          1. religion in an effort to endow himself

            My endowment is known to my wife but of course it is not surprising you want fo know mine.

            Christianity stopped the Ancient Roman practice Pederasty, which is why you hate religion.

            Peter, given your contempt for all religious principles, tell us how many boys you have victimized

            1. DARREN SMITH: HERE’S AN EXAMPLE OF A TOTALLY ABUSIVE POST. If you think Anon deserved to be barred, then surely this malicious attack deserves the same.

          2. “Trump and the Republicans wish to dismantle Obamacare and deny healthcare to common folks. ”

            I guess Peter believes that the middle class that works aren’t common folk. Peter likes middle class families to pay a larger amount in premiums than they should just to protect Obama’s lousy legacy. You seem to hate working people, women and children along with newborns and near newborns that you are willing to kill.

      3. “Mental Health Care in particular is greatly needed in small towns. But Republicans give only lip service to that need (after mass shootings) and never follow-up.”

        I agree that mental health care is greatly needed but not just small towns, everywhere. There is a major shortage of inpatient facililty beds desperately needed nationwide.

        I don’t think the commentary that Republicans are against mental health services is accurate. I won’t drop names but I know many people involved for decades in trying to build up mental health service availability across all income levels, from the DC swamp to flyover, who are Republicans. This is a critical American social crisis, a bipartisan need if there is one, and it should get bipartisan funding and support. Just like opiod abuse.

        Obamacare was a complicated program, not all bad, andlarge parts of it persist. Don’t oversimplify, isnt that what you claim its opponents do?

        Certainly it was a better approach than the current crop are advocating, “medicare for all” with no private option, an awful idea that is proven failure and almost nobody likes. But leave it to Dem candidates to pass off and advocate proven failures for new policies~!

      4. Some report that millennials are moving away from cities. They are fed up with too much government and high taxes.

      5. John, why do you think Obamacare is crucial to rural areas? In fact, it worsened access to healthcare for people like us.

        It caused insurers to get out of the individual policy market. Many rural areas have zero insurers on the exchange or zero providers. Obamacare represented a 30% paycut for doctors. That is why high quality doctors and cancer treatment centers won’t accept it.

        Obamacare also caused drug formularies to tighten, as well as the loss of off formulary benefits.

        On top of that, it exponentially increased premiums and dectubles. When I was on it, my deductible went from $500 to $12,000.

        Why do you think rural people can afford this, on top of having to pay out of pocket to see a good doctor?

        Or, were you assuming that rural communities are poor? Medical or Medicaid already covered the poor. Obamacare was a false promise of health care standards equivalent to an employer policy. It’s not. All that bragging about great coverage was a deliberate lie.

    2. its a severe epidemic and hopelessness due to deteriorating social conditions is right at the heart of it.

      the decline of family building opportunities brought on by decades of anti-male gender bias rhetoric and other assorted social engineering from the Left is causal.

      1. the family is the crux of any civilization. Attack, denigrate, pass legislation that weakens the family, followed by constant redefining by liberals of what family means, and these lead you to offspring who are discombobulated, elderly relatives thrown into nursing facilities, and marriages that end in divorce with adults broken beyond repair

        Globalization has nothing to do with it

        1. oh i think it does. this is why i recommend Dugin. his work explains how international finance capitalism and liberalism are ideologically related and how liberal policies effectuating individualistic social change, such as equal rights for this that and the next individuals, vis a vis some other older social organic group, often operating under the label of “human rights,” advances the favorable conditions for the spread of capitalism into new markets formerly shut off by national boundaries.

  7. “The Nixon impeachment began with a felony crime with the Watergate burglary and then swept to encompass an array of other crimes involving political slush funds, payments of hush money, maintenance of an enemies list, directing tax audits of critics, witness intimidation, multiple instances of perjury and even an alleged kidnapping.”

    Let’s compare and contrast, shall we?

    President Trump spoke with President Zelensky and asked him to cooperate into an investigation into the 2016 election, and alleged criminal wrongdoing by Joe Biden. There was no quid pro quo in the transcript, and our own ambassadors have confirmed that Ukraine knew nothing about any quid pro quo prior to the media releasing the allegations.

    By Contrast:
    1. Obama directed the FBI to spy on Candidate Trump…and lied about it.
    2. FBI agents spoke via text about having a backup plan to take Trump out.
    3. Democrat Hillary Clinton paid a British spy to pay Russian intelligence for a fake dossier to discredit Trump right before the election. Providing voters with false information provided by Russia would be considered meddling in our election. The media refused to release the dossier because it was not vetted. DNC lawyers met with the FBI to discuss the dossier weeks before the election. (https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/409817-russia-collusion-bombshell-dnc-lawyers-met-with-fbi-on-dossier-before) That fake dossier was used by political activists in the FBI to get a warrant, while withholding the unproven nature of the dossier and its funding from the court.
    4. Democrats in Congress said they would impeach Trump immediately upon his election.
    5. Democrats in Congress accused Trump of being a Russian agent, and colluding with Russia in order to meddle in the election. (Ironically, since it was Democrats who actually did so.)
    6. After claiming for years that Trump was working for the Russians, the Mueller report destroyed their hopes of impeachment for that allegation.
    7. There have been multiple Democrat activist moles in the Trump administration, as well as key government positions, who used their access to spy upon the President and then release salacious accusations to the press.
    8. Multiple counts of perjury – including when the NSA denied spying upon Trump. The unmasking perjuries, including Susan Rice.
    9. Use of government agencies to punish conservatives, including IRS selective audits targeting conservatives prior to the 2016 election. NSA and FBI spying on Trump, etc.
    10. The Ukrainian quid pro quo was actually perpetrated by Joe Biden. In fact, he openly bragged about it on camera: Fire the prosecutor within the next 6 hours or I leave with over $1 billion in aid. That is literally a quid pro quo, and his son benefitted from it.
    11. Hunter Biden had no work experience suitable for a job paying $50,000 per month, plus any additional benefits. His only worth was his connection to Joe Biden, who said, on camera, that he was personally responsible for Ukrainian policy, not Obama.

    You know, it’s very interesting how the Democrats are repeatedly guilty of what they accuse Republicans of doing.

    In order for Democrats to support this coup attempt, they must either completely lack critical reasoning, and be unaware of their party’s repeated wrongdoing, or be blinded by politics. In any case, they have exhibited a very concerning amnesia about these repeated false allegations.

    I recall arguing vehemently with people on this blog that Trump is not an antisemite Neo Nazi. I recall saying he had a Jewish family, and obviously would not want them harmed, and that he was a staunch supporter of Israel. People were so sure I was completely wrong. It was all going to be proven and Trump would be thrown out of office for being a Neo Nazi.

    Trump moved the embassy to Israel, and has been the strongest supporter of Israel. Funny how those allegations just faded from the conversation. They just moved on to the next false allegation they were completely sure about, and when that was wrong, on to the next, and the next. After all, wouldn’t a President who sends mean Tweets be guilty of whatever allegation was leveled against him? I mean, he sends mean Tweets. Of course, that also requires a lack of critical reasoning, or they would realize that Democrats have been saying bigoted, terrible remarks about Republicans, mainstreamed, for many years. They have just never had anyone treat themselves as they have treated Republicans. It’s unheard of! Republicans can be counted upon to take the higher ground while they are called racists, etc! Meanwhile, Trump catches those manure balls and lobs them right back. Now, that said, I do wish his quarrels were more effective, and less mud rolling. He often gets in his own way. Fight back, but do so in a manner that leaves you in a stronger position.

      1. Sure, it was a nice weekend. Turkey was lovely, and I was happy with the state of my pie dough. Thanks for noticing…there was a national holiday.

        I’m curious. Why is it so common for the Left to get personal, rather than discuss the facts?

        1. Because idiots like you don’t deal in facts and believe anything anti-democrat. You’d be a caricature but you are too unbelievable.

          1. YNOT:

            Yet again, the Left goes ad hominem, without addressing specific points.

            How about you try this again. Insults are not an argument. Please explain what exactly you disagreed with, and why. Make an argument.

            You cannot deny that more than a dozen accusations have been disproven so far. It’s the cry wolf syndrome at this point. My comment is bulleted for convenience. If you disagree, try explaining why and having a real conversation about it. Everything I said can be backed up with evidence. Perhaps that’s why you insulted me instead of making your case. You have none.

            The problem is that the media keeps misinforming their viewers. Their viewers have grown accustomed to not independently verifying. Then you are left with those who struggle when their talking points are challenged.

            Try just having a reasonable conversation.

    1. Karen: On December 9, when the Inspector General’s final report is released that says that no one spied on the Trump campaign, are you going to admit you are wrong and apologize for repeating the slop you heard on Fox News, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, or wherever else you get the op eds you regurgitate here?

      The Mueller Report refutes the lie that the Steele Dossier was the impetus for starting the investigation. The Mueller Report establishes that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, and that it was fed sensitive internal polling information that was used in key districts for a smear campaign against Hillary Clinton by the Trump campaign. Read the Mueller Report. There’s more than enough there to impeach.

      Trump does the bidding of Vladimir Putin. The proof is in clear sight: at Helsinki, he publicly sided with Putin and against American Intelligence on the issue of election meddling. He refused to condemn Russia for poisoning Russians who fled to the UK in fear of their lives because Putin targeted them for criticizing him. He tried to get Russia back into the G-7, despite being told by other countries they wouldn’t have it. The reason Russia was kicked out? It invaded the Crimea and took it over. Has Trump condemned this action? He withheld military aid to Ukraine approved by a bipartisan vote in order to leverage the Ukrainian President to announce that the Bidens were going to be investigated, The delay in military aid and refusal of Trump to show solidarity with Ukraine by allowing a White House visit resulted in Ukraine being forced to enter into an agreement with Russia to let it keep territory it invaded. The Ukrainians are still in active combat with Russia. Has Trump shown solidarity with our ally, Ukraine? Why not, do you suppose?

      Who are the “moles”? Name them. What proof do you have that they are Democrats? It might shock you to know that there are actually some patriotic Republicans out there who likewise want to vomit at the mere sight of Captain Bone Spurs, and who find his lack of leadership, lying and narcissism repulsive. Has anything that was “leaked” proven to be untrue? Who is “Anonymous” that writes op ed pieces, and now, a new book, telling the truth about him?

      Trump does not have a “Jewish family”. Bottle blondie Ivanka had to convert or Jared wouldn’t marry her. Trump isn’t a Jew or any other kind of religious person. Moving the embassy to Israel was done to curry favor with wealthy Jews for campaign contribution purposes. The world’s 3 major religions have all staked claims to Jerusalem. The U.S. has no business showing support for one group over the others. This is one reason why Muslims hate the U.S.–the appearance that the U.S. is siding with Israel. How does moving the embassy to Jerusalem benefit the average American? It’ doesn’t. Trump is, by the way, a well-established racist, and he did support the White Supremacists when they murdered Heather Heyer.

      You accuse Democrats of lacking critical reasoning skills, but everything you write proves that you are a true Trump disciple, and are therefore the one lacking the ability to see past your hero worship. Because you cannot rationally explain away his grade school level name-calling and pettiness, you try to make the case that he’s just feisty, and the “Dems”, “libs” and “left’ deserve it. He is a malignant narcissist, first, last and always. He is immature, irrational and lacks leadership. His agenda is, first and foremost, attention, adulation and praise, and whatever it takes for his ego. The American people see him for what he is, and that’s why he has set a record for disapproval ratings. Most of us, collectively, want him gone.

      1. narcissist, yawn, same old same old from Natch.

        “most of us” again she presumes to speak for some unidentified majority in her own mind

        1. Only about 11 questions in Natacha’s latest rant, Mr. Kurtz.
          So she’s cutting down on the number of questions she likes to plaster in her comments.
          Of course Natacha knows what will be in the Dec. 9th report, and will accept the conclusions if she likes them.
          Just like she accepts😉the conclusion of the Mueller Report that the Trump campaign did not conspire with Russia to meddle in the 2016 election.
          That’s related to her first question; I won’t bother with the other 10 questions.

      2. Natacha – your demand is ironic, considering you still misrepresent the Mueller report.

        No one spied on Trump? It’s already been admitted. Remember the whole illegal unmasking scandal? The NSA lying about listening in to Trump’s phone lines? It’s already been proven that Obama directed the campaign’s phone conversations be spied upon.

        It sounds like you are misrepresenting a finding that the FBI did not send in covert agents to his campaign, and drew an erroneous conclusion that he wasn’t spied upon. He and his staff were most certainly spied upon through their phone conversations.

        It is also disingenuous to claim that a lack of “covert agents” mean his campaign wasn’t spied upon. The FBI relied on activist informants.

        Plus, there was the material altering of documents in relation to the wiretaps, the NSA lying under oath about it. Remember James Clapper? It was the “least untruthful” answer he could come up with. He’s now a media source for the leftist mainstream media.

        Democrats have behaved worse than Watergate, and yet have the political power to blame their victims, even going after them under color of law.

        https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/351495-it-looks-like-obama-did-spy-on-trump-just-as-he-did-to-me

        “According to media reports this week, the FBI did indeed “wiretap” the former head of Trump’s campaign, Paul Manafort, both before and after Trump was elected. If Trump officials — or Trump himself — communicated with Manafort during the wiretaps, they would have been recorded, too.

        But we’re missing the bigger story.

        Lest anyone (Natacha) forget how Obama used intelligence agencies like his own personal Stazi, just like Nixon

        If these reports are accurate, it means U.S. intelligence agencies secretly surveilled at least a half dozen Trump associates. And those are just the ones we know about.

        Besides Manafort, the officials include former Trump advisers Carter Page and Michael Flynn. Last week, we discovered multiple Trump “transition officials” were “incidentally” captured during government surveillance of a foreign official. We know this because former Obama adviser Susan Rice reportedly admitted “unmasking,” or asking to know the identities of, the officials. Spying on U.S. citizens is considered so sensitive, their names are supposed to be hidden or “masked,” even inside the government, to protect their privacy.

        In May, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and former Acting Attorney General Sally Yates acknowledged they, too, reviewed communications of political figures, secretly collected under President Obama.

        Weaponization of intel agencies?

        Nobody wants our intel agencies to be used like the Stasi in East Germany; the secret police spying on its own citizens for political purposes. The prospect of our own NSA, CIA and FBI becoming politically weaponized has been shrouded by untruths, accusations and justifications.

        You’ll recall DNI Clapper falsely assured Congress in 2013 that the NSA was not collecting “any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.”

        Intel agencies secretly monitored conversations of members of Congress while the Obama administration negotiated the Iran nuclear deal.

        In 2014, the CIA got caught spying on Senate Intelligence Committee staffers, though CIA Director John Brennan had explicitly denied that.

        There were also wiretaps on then-Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) in 2011 under Obama. The same happened under President George W. Bush to former Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-Calif.).

        Journalists have been targeted, too. This internal email, exposed by WikiLeaks, should give everyone chills. It did me.

        Dated Sept. 21, 2010, the “global intelligence” firm Stratfor wrote:

        [John] Brennan [then an Obama Homeland Security adviser] is behind the witch hunts of investigative journalists learning information from inside the beltway sources.

        Note — There is specific tasker from the WH to go after anyone printing materials negative to the Obama agenda (oh my.) Even the FBI is shocked. The Wonder Boys must be in meltdown mode…

        The government subsequently got caught monitoring journalists at Fox News, The Associated Press, and, as I allege in a federal lawsuit, my computers while I worked as an investigative correspondent at CBS News.”

        1. Democrats cheated in 2016, but still lost. Now they are cheating yet again, attempting to put their thumb on the scale of the vote for 2020.

      3. Wait. I noticed Trump, Trump disciple, Russia, Putin, Mueller Report…but there’s absolutely no mention of Fox or Hannity.

        Is this someone pretending to be Natacha?

  8. OT: The MSM can’t get their facts straight. Newsweek reported that for Thanksgiving Trump was golfing and tweeting. The headlines were “How is Trump spending Thanksgiving? Tweeting, golfing and more,”. One can’t trust the media and they don’t even check their stories because they are so anxious to portray the President in a bad light. The truth was that he was in Afghanistan working on our behalf something the Democrats don’t seem to be doing. Dump the MSM. TRUMP 2020.

    1. “The truth was that he was in Afghanistan working on our behalf something the Democrats don’t seem to be doing. Dump the MSM. TRUMP 2020.”

      The truth is that Trump was in Afghanistan working on **his own behalf** — because the narcissist-in-chief wants to be reelected.

      1. With historically low polling for an historic period of time, why does Trump inflict himself on grieving families of those killed in the line of duty and why does he go to places like Afghanistan and insinuate himself into the Thanksgiving holiday of brave military service members? It cannot be because they want him there. He is using their military service as a campaign commercial. Captain Bone Spurs didn’t have the guts to wear the uniform, and if he had any kind of conscience and respect for those who serve, he wouldn’t try to leverage them for his own purposes.

        1. He is the Commander in Chief that’s why.

          He’s got plenty of guts, obviously. You are just spewing forth insults like vomit as usual.

          1. He didn’t have the guts to serve his country after college, although he loved to put on his military school uniform and march in parades. He lied about non-existent bone spurs to evade military duty. Mysteriously, the records of his deferment have gone missing, and he claims that he doesn’t recall why he received the deferment. So much for the Deep State. His bone spurs have not prevented him from playing golf, grabbing women or anything else. He has no record of surgery for this condition, either.

            Does it ever occur to you Trumpsters that Vladimir Putin controls the Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. armed forces, and the implications for this? Do you wonder how much they have on him?

            1. https://www.archives.gov/foia/donald-trump-selective-service-draft-card.html
              *********************
              Typically, Selective Service records of men born before 1960 are not accessible.
              At least some of the information on Trump’s SS records were obtained and published through a FOIA request, and published.
              It is interesting that someone like Natacha claims that “Mysteriously, records of his deferment have gone missing” then claims to “know’ about “non-existent bone spurs”.
              How did she get that “information” from “missing records”?

              1. Two daughters of the podiatrist who provided the fake bone spur report that got Trump his deferment have been interviewed. Their father was a tenant of Fred Trump in an Queens office building, and Fred asked for a favor. The doc wrote the letter, and then, at Fred’s demand, destroyed the records. The records of the reason for his deferment are missing. The doctor has passed away, but he spoke openly and often about doing this favor for Fred Trump for years before he died, including the fact that the records no longer exist.

                Trump claims he doesn’t recall what medical condition got him his deferment. Most people find that to be highly unlikely–what man doesn’t recall what medical condition disabled him from service? He’s never had surgery for this problem, and has no apparent problem with golfing or anything else.

                1. The US military doesn’t want to enroll those individuals with disabilities in part because that can increase the healthcare costs. What determines how strict they are depends on the military’s need for soldiers. Trump was given a 1 Y which meant he was exempt unless… This was later changed to 4F when the 1Y classification disappeared.

                  One can make the same accusation against any individual that received a medical deferment at that time. What Natacha is doing is calling everyone with a medical deferment a liar.That is her choice but I think that is silly.

            2. nope, no such thing occurs to me no matter how many times you invent the preposterous notion that Putin controls him

              what’s despicable is that day after day i raise the issue of diplomacy and deconfliction with Russia as a serious foreign policy objective and all you can talk about is puxxy grabbing. pathetic!

              1. Why not respond to the facts leading to the conclusion that Putin controls Trump–like, for instance, his deference to Putin at Helsinki, refusal to condemn Russia for trying to poison the Russian and his daughter in the U.K., trying to get Russia back into the G-7, refusing to condemn Russia for annexing the Crimea, and, the biggest of all, calling Ukraine “corrupt”, in addition to withholding critical aid, and refusing a WH visit to show solidarity? Ukraine’s President said that labeling Ukraine “corrupt” has dried up interest by foreign investors, and made it even more vulnerable to Russian invasion. Why would he do this to an ally?

            3. Natacha – a podiatrist confirmed those bone spurs. As some one who suffers from bone spurs which kept me out of the draft, I find your vitriol to be libelous. You remember what that is, don’t you?

              1. Mr. Schulte,
                Are you asking Natacha if she knows what “vitriol” is, or what “libelous” is? 😁
                Does she ever answer any questions, or just include 10-15 questions of her own in her posts?
                Also, prepare to be taken to task by her🙄because you ” never wore the uniform”.

              2. What podiatrist? The one in Queens, who was a tenant of Fred Trump? Where is the report? Why isn’t the report in the Selective Service records, why doesn’t Trump recall any of this?

                JFK was so patriotic that he had his father use his influence to get into the Navy, even though, due to a blood disorder that had plagued him for years, he couldn’t pass the physical. Trump cheated to get out of the service, and has the gall to believe that he belongs in the ranks of men like JFK, FDR, or even the Bushies.

                1. Natacha – there are tons of Selective Service and military records that have gone missing or were destroyed in a major fire.

                  As for JFK, he had a cushy billet as an Admiral’s aide until he got caught banging the Admiral’s wife. Then he ended up on a PT boat in the Pacific, as far away from the wife as possible. JFK was a hero by accident.

                  1. Paul: you have only cited a small part of JFK’s military record. You’d probably enjoy reading more about it–I suggest “JFK–Reckless Youth”. Because he was well-educated, he started out in code breaking, which he found boring. He did have multiple affairs, including with superior’s wives, but the biggest scandal of all was Inga Arvad, wife of a Nazi officer. He called her “Inga Binga”. JFK probably would have gone to prison if his father hadn’t been Ambassador to the Court of St. James. Imagine–a code breaker carrying on an affair with the wife of a Nazi officer (although they were estranged). He was under constant surveillance–his quarters and offices were bugged, so they know he didn’t pass on any military secrets, but they made him leave this post because this looks bad. They were hoping to nail Inga, but there was no evidence that she was spying for Germany. Then, the PT boat program came about, and with his navigational skills, honed over the course of many summers at Hyannis Port (he was an accomplished sailor), he was put in charge of PT 109. The rest, as they say, his history.

                2. …JFK was so patriotic… even though, due to a blood disorder that had plagued him for years

                  Hardly. He placed himself and others in danger by having Daddy pull strings to be commissioned an Ensign in the Naval Reserve in spite of failing to earn a commission in the Army’s Officer Candidate School because he was deemed medically unqualified.

                  JFK’s health was always terrible from childhood, his medical records were falsified, his poor health hidden from the public during his political life, and he was heavily medicated throughout his presidency on a daily basis…see below

                  JFK was as much of a fake as Bill Clinton and Donald Trump

                  More follows below in Annals of Internal Medicine Journal though it is complicated and it is not a “blood disorder” …..“NURSE” Natacha. It is known today as Autoimmune Polyendocrine syndrome type 2 (APS 2) which a Nurse would know at the very least is not a blood disorder

                  Endocrine and Autoimmune Aspects of the Health History of John F. Kennedy
                  https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/744707/endocrine-autoimmune-aspects-health-history-john-f-kennedy

                  Janet Travell’s listing of Kennedy’s medications for 12 October 1961 represented a typical day for the president. He was taking ascorbic acid, 500 mg twice daily; hydrocortisone, 10 mg daily; prednisone, 2.5 mg twice daily; methyltestosterone, 10 mg/d; liothyronine sodium, 25 μg twice daily; fludrocortisone, 0.1 mg/d; and diphenoxylate hydrochloride and atropine sulfate, 2 tablets as needed (43). Records at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum do not contain the results of any of Kennedy’s endocrine testing.

                  Kennedy received testosterone daily during his entire presidency. His daily dose of oral methyltestosterone started out as 10 mg, and on several occasions it was increased to 25 mg/d. The summary medication sheet for May 1962 indicates that his physicians began trying different testosterone preparations at that time (44). From 1 to 7 May, he received between 50 mg and 75 mg of testosterone aqueous suspension for 4 days, and from 10 to 28 May, he received either 5 mg or 10 mg of oral fluoxymesterone.

                  1. Kennedy had multiple episodes of sudden hemorrhages when he was young. He would bleed from every body orifice, requiring multiple blood transfusions. The family joke was that if a mosquito bit Jack, the mosquito would die. He went to the best facilities in the world, and was at least twice diagnosed as having some rare and unknown form of leukemia, which resulted in his clotting factors being depleted. However, later tests did not establish leukemia, but knowledge of this disease and testing were not as well-developed as they are now. He was very thin for this reason, although he had the steroid “moon face”.

                    He suffered some kind of disabling back injury–he always claimed it was due to football, but there’s evidence that it first manifested itself during an extensive trip to Europe in 1938, around the time WWII started. He may have fallen or gotten injured over there. When cortisone as an anti-inflammatory treatment was first discovered, patients would be treated by taking a small piece of adrenal gland tissue from a cow, cutting an incision in the skin and inserting the tissue under the skin. There was no way to titrate how much would be absorbed or how fast, but the effect was to shut down Kennedy’s own adrenals, plus it affected his immune system. Anyone who has taken a Medrol Dose Pak knows that you must taper down the dosage of cortisone to avoid serious side effects. They didn’t know that then, so he was maintained on cortisone for the rest of his life. That caused multiple other health problems, referenced above. You see videos of Kennedy greeting his son, but not picking him up, because he simply couldn’t.

                    So, Estrovir, what I was referring to was the problem Kennedy’s blood clotting, not his endocrine problems, which are something else entirely. The blood disorder preceded the cortisone treatments, and was also disqualifying.

                3. JFK got a ski boat in paradise from his crime boss father. He was so incompetent, the Japanese cut his boat in half without even knowing it; by accident. You’ve got to be kidding. JFK was a useless “playboy” son of a criminal stock manipulator and smuggler with strong ties to the mob. JFK was so stupid he essentially killed himself by attacking Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello (two mobsters who got JFK votes), threatening the CIA with expiry and abandoning it on the beach during the Cuban invasion at the Bay of Pigs.
                  __________________________________________________________

                  JFK, Monster
                  By Timothy Noah
                  “I knew that John F. Kennedy was a compulsive, even pathological adulterer, given to taking outlandish risks after he entered the White House. I knew he treated women like whores. And I knew he had more than a few issues with his father about toughness and manliness and all that. But before I read in the newspaper that Mimi Alford’s just-released memoir, Once Upon A Secret: My Affair With President John F. Kennedy And Its Aftermath, described giving Dave Powers a blow job at JFK’s request and in his presence, I didn’t know that Kennedy had an appetite for subjecting those close to him to extreme humiliation.”

                  1. George: you should read up more on Kennedy. PT 109 was lying in wait in Blackett Strait to torpedo one or more Japanese destroyers that went in convoys for supplies using this route. Because an actively-moving propeller would leave a trail of phosphorescence, which would disclose their presence, only one engine was on and it was idling, and this was per protocol. When the destroyers were within range, Kennedy tried to start up the other engine, but couldn’t get it going. This is because the engines were Chrysler auto engines, and weren’t appropriate for marine use. In fact, the problem of engine stalling is one reason why the PT boat program was abandoned. PT 109 was a sitting duck. It wasn’t Kennedy’s fault.

                4. “Why isn’t the report in the Selective Service records”

                  I believe all of those records from all men were destroyed intentionally. Natacha’s problem stems from her being ignorant of the facts and her willingness to create new false facts to suit her desires.

                  That way of thinking is unacceptable. The individual that does these things is worthless to any serious discussion.

                5. “What podiatrist?”, asked Natacha. The one who has been dead for 12 years.
                  Also, the one his two daughters are now accusing of falsifying medical records as “a favor” to Fred Trump, to get his son a 1-Y classification.

            4. Natacha – I got bone spurs from walking over 30 miles in riding boots at a weekend horse show. It was excruciating. I could not walk. All I could do was hobble. The pain was especially bad in the morning. There is no way that I could have served in any physical capacity.

              Stop making accusations without proof. It is reflective of the behavior of the Democratic Party as a whole. Did you ever stop to think that you should be able to prove an allegation before you make it? He got a deferment for bone spurs, so in your fevered mind, he must have made it up? These kinds of deferments were common. It’s also not “mysterious” about why you can’t find records that far back. It’s called the archive methods used in record keeping. Doctor’s offices also do not keep records in perpetuity. You said before you were a nurse. Why are you mystified that records are not kept indefinitely? Anyone who searches for genealogy records on Ancestry.com understands what a find old records are, for this very reason.

              I have no idea if he faked his bone spurs or not, and wouldn’t bother to guess without evidence. Neither do you. You just hope he did because you hate him. I do know that bone spurs would indeed prevent serving. You can’t run, let alone walk, if you have them, and symptoms can show up overnight. Mine did.

              It is really easy for you to be brave about a deployment from the safety of your keyboard, trying to shove a white feather at someone else. You were never at risk of being drafted. It is also so easy to make accusations without evidence if it suits you politically. Too easy.

              My God. Do you serve on juries? It’s a chilling thought.

              1. Since you only watch pro-Trump news, you probably never saw the interviews with the 2 daughters of the podiatrist who wrote the fake bone spurs report that got Trump the deferment. Their father was a tenant of Fred Trump who had his office in a commercial building he owned in Queens. It is confirmed that Fred Trump owned the building. Trump, Sr. asked his tenant for a favor, and after he got the deferment, ordered the records destroyed, but the podiatrist told the story about how brave Captain Bone Spurs got his deferment to anyone who would listen. He also thought little Donnie was a big, fat joke.

                Don’t you find it curious that the records of Cpt. Bone Spurs mysteriously disappeared from the Selective Service? How can this be when there’s the big, bad “Deep State” out to get Trump? The Selective Service doesn’t destroy records. Don’t you find it curious that the bone spurs were never treated, that Cpt. Bone Spurs doesn’t recall how or why he got the medical deferment, and that Cpt. Bone Spurs never had any problem playing golf, grabbing crotches or doing anything else he wanted, despite being too disabled to serve his country? I think most men would remember why they got a medical deferment. His claim of not recalling is yet another lie. If he tried to make up some other medical problem, he’d get caught, so he just denies recalling the reason.

                I don’t question that bone spurs could be a disabling condition, but I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump never had any bone spurs because they don’t just go away without any treatment. Just like everything else, his father paid for him to get what he wanted, in this case, to avoid serving his country.

                1. Natacha:

                  “Since you only watch pro-Trump news“ – you are at 100% wrong so far with your declarations about me. We have already discussed this allegation.

                  I post from a variety of sources, including CNN and HuffPo. You are aware of this.

                  First, this is heresay. Second, if I recall correctly, the daughters are fierce anti-Trump Democrats. Third, this woudl require the doctor to break confidentiality and discuss a patient’s medical information with his family, as well as others. Fourth, why did they wait until the doctor had passed away to come forward? He is no longer alive to verify their story. Fifth, such an allegation must be proven.

                  You have claimed you are a nurse. You could easily say that a doctor who passed away who used to treat Trump told you all sorts of salacious gossip. The doctor would be gone. Records would not be available at this point. How could anyone disprove your story?

                  Why do you think that Trump received no treatment for bone spurs? The symptoms can indeed go away without surgery. My Xrays showed bone spurs. The shots only provided temporary relief. I researched treatments I could do myself, and did my own physical therapy. I only wore cushy shoes, and only wore my riding boots when I was ready to go get my horse to ride. My symptoms have totally abated without surgery.

                  It is rather telling that you are so sure he lied. Since there is no direct evidence, you have substituted bias for proof.

                  1. You are way out of your element, just like Trump. You can’t even spell “hearsay”, much less understand what it means.

                    I have an idea: let’s ask Cpt. Bone Spurs. Oh, wait. We already tried that. He doesn’t recall what his health problem was that got him out of the military. Do you actually believe that Trump doesn’t know what health issue got him the deferment? He knows that if he lies about this, people will demand proof, and ask where and when he got treatment for this condition, so he lies about it, just like he lies all of the time about everything.
                    Abatement of pain does not mean that the bone spurs are gone–they are just not symptomatic, so if he had injections or other treatments, where is the proof? The daughters of the podiatrist confirmed that he never saw or treated Trump for bone spurs.

                2. bone spurs actually stop someone from marching, which is in this day and age, very much still essential to the enlisted soldier. likewise flat feet will DQ someone from draft.

                  you are ignorant of such things, but we let you run on your mouth about them, to show how malicious you are

                  moreoever, the kids of a deceased podiatrist, who are impeaching his evidence from the grave, are doing their parent a disservice. THEY were not the examining physician, THEY are not qualified, THEY have no first hand knowledge, THEY could be making 100% up for a few bucks from the network who wants to smear Trump for some eyeballs and the usual inducmenets

                  you say you are a nurse and a lawyer? neither a good nurse nor a good lawyer would be proud to announce such foolish impeachment of a medical record from decades ago based on such vacuous nonsensical “evidence” that would not even be admissible in small claims court.

                  shame !

                3. Natacha – as I have told you before, I was deferred for bone spurs. I have never had them treated. They hurt like hell when the weather changes and I can only lift boxes up to 35 pounds.

                  I am going to tell you a personal anecdote about those bone spurs and how doctors reacted to them in 1965. The doctor who discovered them did not want me in the military because of them. When I went to pick up the x-rays he was on vacations, so I had to get his partner to release the x-rays so I could take them to the draft board. That doctor thought I was being a draft dodger, even though I had previous applied for the Marine PLC program and had been kicked out because I had been hospitalized with asthma in the 8th grade, which was a disqualify factor.I could be cannon fodder, but not an officer. However, the draft board, after a complete physical, came to their senses, and decided that I should not be defending our country. I was crushed. I was all set to go, I had a carton of cigarettes and my shaving gear.

                  BTW, Natacha, where did you do your military service at?

                  1. Sounds like your bone spurs continue to impact you to this day.

                    Trump’s? His bone spurs seem to have disappeared very quickly and did not interfere with his athletics at any point.

                    Not saying all bone spurs are illegitimate – but you can see why we doubt Trump’s.

                    1. Trump’s? His bone spurs seem to have disappeared very quickly and did not interfere with his athletics at any point.

                      Again, he was given a I-Y deferment (which were quite common). He could have been recalled for another physical in as little as 90 days. The matter was rendered moot 18 months later when the draft lottery was instituted. He and his brother drew numbers high enough that he was not going to be issued a second summons. Where is your evidence he did not have bone spurs during that 18 month period?

                    1. Natacha – grammar rules have changed since the 4th grade. Just answer the question. Which branch of the military did you serve in?

                    2. Allan – what is worse for Natacha is that there never was a rule backing up her claim on prepositions. I hate being right again. 😉

                4. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jan-19-me-passings19-story.html
                  **********************************************
                  So under the Natacha Conspiracy Theory, the doctor, Fred Trump, and his son Donald were all involved in this plot to get the I-Y classification.
                  This briefly became a headline store about two years ago when the podiatrist’s daughters told this story.
                  Since their father had died 10 years earlier, there, we have only the word of two anti-Trump daughters who are willing to implicate their father in this conspiracy.
                  The situation was different when the story of the Clinton ROTC Dodge emerged in the early 1990s. The principal players in that story were very much alive, and I’m sure🙄 that Natacha was equally critical of Clinton because he “never wore the uniform”.

            5. Natacha:

              “Does it ever occur to you Trumpsters that Vladimir Putin controls the Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. armed forces”

              Interesting. So you actually believe that Putin made Trump sanction Russia? Putin made Trump differ from Obama, and provide lethal aid to Ukraine?

              It is difficult to follow your thought process.

              You must prove your allegations. Note how others provide links to support their claims. Otherwise, you are just fabricating yet another false allegation.

              Honestly, Republicans have grown so tired of the constant, unrelenting false allegations against them that they elected Trump. He wasn’t establishment, and he certainly never takes an insult lying down.

              Does it ever occur to you that your type of vitriol is what got Trump in office in the first place? It’s been going on for so many years. People are tired of the irrational spewing of hatred.

              Just today, you have made a series of allegations without a shred of evidence. Are you repeating unproven allegations you heard, or making it up on the spot?

              Honestly, I am concerned that Republicans might just throw in the towel of taking the high road. If Democrats get away with this coup, it may well spur them to respond in kind. It will be political trench warfare from then on.

              Can you imagine a world in which Republicans behaved like Democrats? What if Democrats became afraid, en masse, to wear political clothing for fear of physical assault? Just like Republicans are today. What if Democrat presidents faced constant threats of impeachment, spying, moles, and a constant stream of disproven allegations, especially while they are in the midst of international negotiations? What if they had satirical balloons made of every Democrat president from now on out? Republicans can constantly run investigations and impeachment hearings, too.

              Just think. If both sides behaved as badly as the Democrats are today, Congress would spend all its time fighting and never get anything done. I guess at least they would legislatively leave us alone, and by default, we’d have a less intrusive government.

        2. “why does Trump inflict himself on grieving families of those killed in the line of duty”

          1 – In order to spend time with the troops in harm’s way. They are not with their own families during Thanksgiving. It’s a way to give thanks and get to know them first hand. Every president throughout our history owes a debt of gratitude to our military, as well as responsibility for asking them to risk their lives.

          2 – Because the military understand respect, in contrast to the poorly raised middle and high school children who booed our First Lady. How interesting that Democrats expected Michelle Obama to be respected, in spite of being responsible for high school teenagers going hungry because she put all school students on a diet, but feel entitled to disrespect kind Melania Trump.

          It is telling of your character that you despise a president for spending Thanksgiving with our military in Afghanistan. I think it speaks quite poorly of you, instead of your intention of disparaging our president.

          1. Most Americans, including our troops: 1. did not vote for Trump; 2. consistently, and for an historic length of time, disapprove of him; and 3. want him gone. So, why does he show up to disrupt our troops’ Thanksgiving holiday, other than to use the bravery of our military personnel for campaign purposes? Once you understand how narcissism works, you understand why this is so wrong because everything he does is for his own aggrandizement. His presence is offensive to most Americans, who are sick of him, his lying, his misogyny, racism, arrogance and grandiosity. That person is not “our” anything. He is a crude, crass narcissist who cheated to get into the White House, who cheated to avoid military service, and who cheats at everything. When he “visits” someplace, protecting him against assassination is extremely disruptive. What makes him or you believe that anyone wants him there or that his presence would be anything other than disruptive to our troops? How could any service member who puts his or her life on the line to serve our country respect someone who lied to avoid military service during the Viet Nam conflict?

            Melania is no lady, and not “our” anything. Check out her nudie photos. Her own husband does not respect her, she has no education past high school and she has no measurable accomplishments, unless you count posing for photos. She is no role model for women or girls, unlike Michelle Obama, who is an educated woman and who embarked on a campaign to encourage healthy eating habits to combat the obesity crisis affecting children in this country. You keep claiming that Michelle Obama was starving high school children, which is nothing but a lie. Encouraging children to eat more fruits and vegetables and to choose lower-fat milk products is a good thing. Your list of petty complaints exposes how shallow and uninformed you are. You have previously complained about California banning plastic bags, a measure aimed at reducing plastic waste which affects marine life, and charging for paper bags, which is designed to encourage reusable bags, as if this is a bad thing, too.

            One of your problems is that you keep trying to normalize Trump, calling him “our President”. He does not belong in the White House. He is no leader.

            1. YOU DONT SPEAK FOR “MOST AMERICANS”

              YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER WHO “MOST TROOPS” VOTED FOR

              the words spewed forth come from a fraud. i guess that’s why you are so fixiated on trump’s fibs– takes one to know one!

            2. “Melania is no lady, and not “our” anything. Check out her nudie photos. Her own husband does not respect her, she has no education past high school and she has no measurable accomplishments, unless you count posing for photos. She is no role model for women or girls,”

              IF YOU HAD SAID THIS ABOUT ANY OTHER SUPERMODEL, MOST OF WHOM POSE NUDE ON A REGULAR BASIS, GO PICK UP ANY MAGAZINE IN THE GROCERY STORE…..BUT IF YOU SAID THIS THEN FEMINISTS WOULD TYPICALLY SCOLD YOU FOR SLUT-SHAMING OR WHATEVER THEY CALL IT WHEN WOMEN INSULT EACH OTHER FOR GOOD LOOKS AND POSING IN PHOTOS. SHAME ON YOU FOR DENIGRATING WOMEN!

              ,,,,,BUT….
              IF A DEMOCRAT SAYS THIS ABOUT A REPUBLICAN WOMAN ITS OK

              we have seen a similar dynamic with many good looking women who support Trump including the very smart young woman from U of Michigan Ann Arbor who used to have a beauty title and they stripped it from her for some stupid reason, ie, she likes Trump! Kathy something or other.

              1. The portfolio of Natacha’s commentary on Melania (and on Kellyanne Conway) is approximately what you’d expect of someone butt-hurt about being severely unattractive. Gotta put away the cheese-doodles, sister.

                1. So TIA says — while stuffing cheese-doodles in his or her mouth.

                  Submit a pic so we can judge you, too, TIA.

              2. I’m not insulting Melania for choosing to strip and pose nude, nor even because she only has a high school education, although the Trump campaign tried to lie about her education, claiming she was an engineer. There are no Slovenian institutions that offered engineering at the time, so they tried to change it to “architecture”, but she never attended any school for this, either. I dissent from the notion that she is entitled to deference or respect merely by virtue of whom she is married to, plus the fact that she is a nude model. She does not belong in the ranks of Eleanor Roosevelt, Laura Bush or Jackie Kennedy. Her “be best” campaign is pure hypocrisy–just check out the rhetoric from her own husband. Her alleged concern for children is also fake–how about the little ones living in cages at our southern border? This entire dispute arose because she was booed when appearing at some speaking engagement about opioid addiction.

                1. The title ‘engineering’ was thought of differently in eastern Europe. You should first know the facts before voicing your opinions. Even in this country there is such a think as architectural engineering.

                  Natacha, the number of errors you make is astounding.

                2. Natch, she’s beautiful, graceful, and charming. That speaks for itself

                  Look in the mirror: punishment enough for you.

            3. Natacha made yet another misrepresentation (among many.)

              Nothing you make up is going to change the fact that while Melania Trump encourages children to be their best, and avoid drugs, Michelle Obama actually caused school children to go hungry. It’s on record. There were myriad complaints to state legislators that no amount of you wishing and lying will make evaporate. But it’s Melania you savage. Let us apply Democrat logic: What’s the matter? Do you hate kids? Want them to go hungry? Long for the days when Obama locked them in cages and his wife made them go hungry in school?

              Michelle Obama did not encourage children to eat more fruits and vegetables, and to choose lower fat milk products.

              She created rules which forced all American school children on a diet. For instance. I give my child whole milk. He is very active in sports, horses, and outdoor activities. Keeping meat on his bones is a daily challenge. Michelle Obama created a rule in which whole fat milk may not be offered to kids, even very active kids. She also had so many calorie restrictions that high school athletes, especially, could not meat their daily caloric requirements.

              Force is not encouragement.

              Michelle Obama’s rules caused a shameful amount of food waste. The food did not appeal to kids’ palate, so much of the food went in the trash.

              Want to see fresh, whole foods in schools? Look at French school lunches. Observe their outdoor lifestyle, and frequent walking. Compare and contrast to deep blue CA schools. My kid spends his rain day recesses inside watching television because the schools have no accommodations for rainy days. They barely have any time to play in their short recess anyway, and instead spend long stretches of time learning Common Core math gimmicks, which may be the reason why the US just slipped even farther behind in math and reading proficiency, compared with the rest of the world. Remember when Democrats promised Common Core would turn our kids into math geniuses?

              For fun, here’s the protest video parody:

              https://youtu.be/2IB7NDUSBOo

              “You keep claiming that Michelle Obama was starving high school children, which is nothing but a lie.” Since you are unwilling to GOOGLE, for your education:

              There was massive criticism from children and their parents. So much so that the USDA had to loosen her restrictions and allow more meat.

              https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/2/michelle-obamas-school-lunch-program-leaves-childr/

              Students nationwide are boycotting new federal school lunch rules, reverting to brown-bagging it in a mini-revival of individual freedom among the milk-drinking crowd.
              Michelle Obama’s signature 2010 legislation, the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act (HHFK), included rules that banned some foods, such as whole and 2 percent milk, and rationed others, such as potatoes and peas. From Wisconsin to Kansas, student athletes, in particular, are complaining the 850-calorie lunch limit embodied in nacho plates containing eight tortilla chips just doesn’t provide enough food for their growing, hard-working bodies.
              Mrs. Obama pushed for the law because, as she said, “all children should have the basic nutrition they need.” Odd, then, that it is actually depriving children of basic nutrition. It’s almost as if one-size-fits-all central diktats hurt people or something. Just wait until the feds roll out their clothing store, Procrustes Limited.
              Contradicting its Orwellian name, the law has sparked real-life hunger games.
              “Now [lunch] is worse-tasting, smaller-sized and higher-priced,” a Wisconsin high school senior told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, echoing some of the problems of government these days. Hungry Minnesota students are “scavenging the lunchrooms after lunch,” and Kansas students are bringing lunch to school in droves and angrily writing state representatives.”

              1. The stupidity of it all is having agencies of the central government of any country more populous then Liechtenstein dictating the content of local school lunches. Come to think of it, publicly provided lunches are a pretty dubious activity to begin with.

      2. Anonymous the Stupid, doing things that are good for the people help Presidents get re-elected. You cannot comprehend the fact that people vote in their presumed best interests.

          1. Anonymous the Stupid, you are totally unable to respond to the topic and can only flatter me by copying the nature of the name I gave you. Yes, that demonstrates that you are the one and only Anonymous the Stupid.

            1. And it’s Allan the Stupid…back with more of his drivel.

              (We have to use language that you might understand, Allan, so “Allan the Stupid” it is.)

              1. Read what normal commenters write. They don’t deal with your type of Stupidity. Unfortunately Anonymous the Stupid it appears you are too stupid to learn.

    1. Watergate itself was an exaggerated episode, the tip of an iceberg, to this day somewhat unclear all the factors that were in play on both sides.

      It’s great to see a guy like Trump prepare to fight instead of fold.

  9. It became obvious weeks ago – this whole deal is a sham cooked up by Schiff and his staff along with certain government officials, particularly Vindman. In short, it’s a conspiracy, which is a Federal crime. And, yes, it’s connected to the Clintons. Adam Schiff goes way back with them, all the way to the Clinton impeachment. (So does Jon Turley for that matter.)

  10. Two other salient facts should be considered about Watergate: The hiring of CIA-trained contractors to bug the DNC evinces a willingness to use government experience and clandestine assets to gain electoral advantage. And, John Mitchell’s and FBI Director L. Patrick Grey used the cover of their authorities to impede the FBI investigation, threatening FBI agents and, in the case of Grey, burning damning evidence in his home fireplace.

    Irksome is that we haven’t built the institutional reforms to investigate alleged crimes on the part of candidates and campaigns in both a rapid and non-partisan manner.

    The fact is that “dirty tricks” that step over the line into illegality can still be gotten away with during campaigns, and only uncovered after the presumed victory and swearing-in ceremony. This has been going on since the beginning of our Republic. And yet, all we have to conduct an official investigation is the ad hoc process cobbled together by partisan elected officials and their appointees. This approach will always give the appearance of partisan bias….a structural defect.

    What would be better is to create an Election Integrity Rapid Response Office, a standing investigatory and prosecutory Office staffed by professionals thoroughly vetted and sworn to non-partisan principles. It would incorporate both domestic and global investigatory reach. All campaigns would be required to appoint their most senior legal advisor as a liaison to EIRRO — closing a fast fact-finding loop from allegations, campaign investigations, and resolutions. The goal of speed is to resolve allegations of cheating in advance of election day.

    The EIRRO concept is also designed to quash misinformation and conspiracy-theory ops. The way it works is as follows: If a campaign goes directly to the media to launch an accusation of illegality, then EIRRO has no obligation to help resolve the issue — the accusing campaign loses credibility by distrusting EIRRO.
    If, on the other hand, the accusers report their matter to EIRRO confidentially, then EIRRO has an obligation to investigate, and to report to the public within 30 days (or sooner) on the case particulars and status. This process allows misinformation ops to go through an unbiased vetting process, and be officially discredited in a timeframe sufficient to sort them out. And, it makes it difficult to cover-up illegality until after the election. It provides an antidote to infowarfare ops, and a strong deterrent.

    If we don’t take proactive steps to be able to neutrally police campaign and candidate behavior, the outcome will eventually be loss of confidence in election outcomes. Imagine a highly contested election, where everyone involved, the perpetrators, the victims, and the investigators cannot escape the tinge of partisan politics. We can do better, but first, we must get back to institutional thinking and put aside thoughts of immediate partisan advantage-taking.

  11. While the legislators are chasing Trump, bureaucrats and bureaus are running the country. Legislators are elected, bureaucrats are appointed.

      1. No. She doesn’t want the job. (If she was ever career-oriented she ceased to be about 25 years ago).

        Again, the last time you had a somewhat competitive candidate entering the race less than a year before the election was in 1976. The last time such a candidate won the nomination was in 1968, when delegate selection methods were entirely different. If the current contest replicates that on the Republican side in 2015 / 16, the competitive candidates will be a subset of those polling at least 5% sixteen months prior to the election. That would be Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, or Buttigieg. Harris’ numbers have been imploding. In the Democratic Party, tech money and casino banking money are consequential, so they’ll be looking for a port in the storm. With Biden tainted (and manifestly dotty), Booty-gig’s the one.

        1. “No. She doesn’t want the job.”

          DSS, I wouldn’t be so sure. Originally I thought she might eneter the race but then it appeared unlikely. Today with the Democrats in such disarray based on book tours, Obama’s statements etc. the likeliness of her entry late in the game makes it more likely. The Democrats might suddenly find the need for unity and for a candidate that is not so far to the left ((their billionaire, millionaire base might be upset from those candidates on the extreme left). I don’t know what she wants or what will happen but such an unqualified “No” on your part appears to be not well thought out.

            1. Preciseness doesn’t exist in such matters. Too many unknown and incalculable variables. Had you said you didn’t believe or you thought the odds were that Michele didn’t want the job that would be reasonable but your answer “No. She doesn’t want the job.” was not.

              1. She’s said explicitly she doesn’t want the job and will not run. Her biographers have said she was irritated with her husband for many years for being an indifferent earner, leaving the task to her. She let her law license lapse in 1993. The person who keeps saying she wants the job is the one who is being unreasonable.

                That aside, you cannot come up with an example of a late entrant competing well because there hasn’t been one in 40-odd years. You might be reasonable enough to consider that there might be a structural factor which prevents late entrants from thriving in competition.

                1. DSS, Barack Obama said he wouldn’t run just a matter of a couple of months before he entered the election and then became President. So much for what people say and predictions.

                  ” late entrant competing well because there hasn’t been one in 40-odd years.”

                  Times change. In fact I didn’t think Biden could survive the primary fight and then the election. I thought the smartest thing for him to do was to enter late counting on the hoards of candidates to kill themselves off while dividing the electorate to such a degree that they had to look towards him as a unifying candidate.

          1. As likely as anyone. What’s strange about the current field is that you have three septuagenarians and a fourth who isn’t yet forty years old. The other oddity is that Bribem is the only one with a semblance of a normal domestic life, bar that his middle-aged son is a man whose problems of concupiscence are incessant and gruesome.

        2. Kamala Harris wants to extend the school day to 10 hours, essentially putting all kids in state daycare without consent. No more after school activities. No more having influence over the shaping of kids’ values. It’s reminiscent of Nazi Germany putting all kids into daycare and forcing all women to work. For the good of all, of course. Strong government typically views children as belonging to the state. We are already seeing this trend.

          She believes the people are such incompetents that the government can care for them far better than they can care for themselves.

          Kama Harris can take a long walk off a short pier.

          The Democrat Presidential platform is exactly two policies – utter hatred for Trump, and dangling free stuff. Government will pay for A-Z. You’ll live great! Just vote for us.

          This method has worked to get total Democrat control of CA, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit. All wastelands. It’s a beta test for the rest of the country.

          How’s it going in deep blue areas? When given total control, how do they make out?

          Here in CA, stores are not allowed to provide free, hygienic shopping bags, but the homeless dystopia of addicts and crazy people are free to throw garbage in ephemeral stream beds.

          We spend billions on a high speed rail boondoggle, to rewards big Democrat donors, but we don’t own a Super Scooper.

          We live in a drought state, but dumped millions of gallons of freshwater into the delta to try to save a bait fish, which I am convinced only congregated there in the first place due to all the manmade runoff.

          Food farmers wells capped, but pot farms welcomed.

          Gang violence.

          Unrestrained illegal immigration. The rich flee schools that they have caused to become overrun with ESL students, dragging down instruction and test scores in their wake. They inflict this upon other people’s kids.

          The environment is so hostile to business owners that they flee the state. We are seeing the exodus of contributors, and the influx of benefits takers – illegal immigrants, low skilled workers, and the homeless. Good jobs leave, leaving low paying jobs. The Democrat answer is to jack up the cost of labor even more for unskilled jobs, closing even more businesses.

          Road Diets. (Spit.) We have traffic that is one of the main sources of stress in the state. We don’t use mass transit because it’s a huge state. It’s not concentrated like London or NYC. Since we aren’t cooperating with Democrats in getting out of our cars (because it would take hours and hours to get home and cost a lot of money) they strip us of lanes. They put up concrete barriers in high traffic areas, or turn them into empty bike lanes. It is an effort to force people into mass transit. That’s what a strong government does – it has the power to force people to its will.

          Don’t vote to turn the US into CA. It really sucks here. If we were able to start from scratch again, we’d be out of state, too.

            1. Woo hoo! My kid won’t be forced to into a 10 hour school day. Quite happy to see her in retreat. Now…on to the rest of the Democratic candidates promising economic ruin…

            2. “Great men do not seek power; it is thrust upon them.”
              — Klingon Proverb

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs

              A close friend of mine lamented that the first question to be asked of a person being nominated for political office should be “Do you want the job”. If the reply is a definite “No” then they are probably the better potential candidate.

      2. Allan – it is possible that we do not have a strong winner coming out of Super Tuesday and would go into a brokered convention. There Michele could become a viable candidate. The problem is: would she be willing to take the pay cut?

        1. why would she. she’s not into it, obviously. life’s great for her as a “celebrity”

          Hillary was a true politician and a powerful one, whatever bad things one might say about her.
          Michelle is neither a politician nor powerful.

          1. I didn’t think she wanted it either but watching the way things are playing outfit seems to becoming more likely.

        2. Michelle cant hold a candle to Melania’s class, elegance, plus intelligence. Melania is fluent in 6 languages: Slovenian, English, French, Italian, Serbian and German. Her son Barron speaks 3: English, Slovenian and French

          Melania exemplifies true class and pride in America.
          America is Blessed to have her as First Lady

          1. Beautiful. I love trees with white lights. It must be very difficult for Melania, encountering such hostility from activists. The White House is her home, and yet critics of her husband have been very cruel, including her choice of decorations over the years.

            I would also say that Melania far outperforms Michele Obama, because she did not force school children to go hungry by putting everyone on a diet, regardless of body mass. By contrast, Melania urges children to be their best, and to avoid drugs.

            No contest.

          2. What are “class” and “elegance’? Things obtained by wearing expensive clothes, strolling through holiday decorations designed and installed by others with actual artistic talent, wearing CFM pumps while doing the model’s stroll? Those things could have been done by any model. How do you know how many languages Melania speaks? Trump’s campaign claims these things.

            You also probably believe Trump is a self-made billionaire, too. You like to believe the hype, which makes you a Trump supporter. To me, class and elegance are measured by what a person stands for. Melania stands for nothing: she is a vapid former stripper, arm candy for a lying narcissist, who allegedly supports a “be best” campaign when her husband insults and verbally berates anyone who disagrees with him. She allegedly advocates for children when her husband cages innocent kids because their parents brought them to the U.S.. Her own husband calls her a “good-looking piece of ass”, and cheats on her. She has no education past high school. She is no role model for young girls or women.

            1. Natacha – Hillary Clinton couldn’t pose nude nor could she pull off the class of Melania. And how many women did Bill cheat on Hillary with? Using your standard, she should not be allowed out on the street.

            2. Natacha:

              You asked, What are “class” and “elegance’? You clearly do not know. You seem to think that walking in a museum makes you elegant. Sniping about a woman’s Christmas decorations in her own home is not classy.

              What you stand for involves your character and beliefs. You may not understand this, but class and elegance have absolutely nothing to do with someone’s character. A villain could have excellent taste, impeccable manners, and be a skilled conversationalist. He wouldn’t throw tables over in a restaurant, and would know how to behave. Melania Trump is classy, elegant, and a good person. She is quiet and does not go after anyone. People like you have gone after her throat for 3 years. Shame on you. Your own personal standards involve leveling false accusations and name calling, and obsessing about Fox, quite poor character flaws.

              Why are you so vicious to the First Lady? Her behavior is classy and composed. She designed her Christmas display. You don’t seem to know much about her, but she was a designer prior to ever meeting Trump. She used to be in lots of magazines before Trump ran as a Republican. Those articles used to talk about her modest upbringing, in which she made her own clothes, as well as her speaking 5 languages.

              You seem to have a consistent problem, using your own poisonous hatred to claim that something is true. It is really easy to look up information about Melania Trump from before 2016. You could have done so, but you did not. Instead, you posted your allegations without bothering to spend 5 minutes looking it up.

              We conservatives have been on the receiving end of that kind of false accusation and character assassination for decades, increasing in intensity and boldness.

              “she is a vapid former stripper” Sexist and false. She is a former super model. Almost all super models pose in nude photos draped in jewelry. It is also common in Europe for models to pose completely nude. It’s page 6 common. She was never an exotic dancer. That rapper video used a look-alike to cruelly mock her.

              What moral high ground do you hold complaining about Trump insulting people who disagree with him? He insults people who insult him. You insult people who don’t insult you. You see, this is what it’s like for conservatives. We’ve unjustly been called every name in the book for twenty years. It’s the tactic of Saul Alinsky – demonize your opponent. Make false allegations one after another until the character assassination is part of Democrat voters’ psyche. We’re tired of it.

              If you don’t like Trump’s insults, why do you think it’s OK for Democrats to have insulted Republicans like this for many years, without comeback?

              Let’s list your own personal false insults and allegations in one post:

              1. Melania is not classy or elegant
              2. She doesn’t speak 5 languages
              3. She didn’t design her own Christmas display
              4. I believe Trump is a self made billionaire (everyone knows that Trump inherited some wealth)
              5. Melania stands for nothing
              6. Her husband cages innocent kids (The photos were from Obama. If chain link fencing to keep children safe while they figure out which of the adults are murdering cartel members or pedophiles is “caging them”, then so is every school yard playground with a fence. In addition, there are not Hilton 5 star illegal immigration detention facilities every 5 miles all along the border. A lot of these facilities are emergency ones thrown up to deal with the mass influx overwhelming the system…the result of Democrat policy.
              7. she is no role model for girls or women (Why? She tells kids not to do drugs and be their very best. She is a devoted mother. She is extremely intelligent. A business owner. If she were a Democrat she’d be an icon.)
              8. She is a vapid former stripper. Not vapid. Not an exotic dancer, either. She did a nude modeling shoot in 1995, before she met Donald Trump. This is common in Europe for models and actresses. She was never a stripper.

              Now, this is just a casual perusal of your dark post, and I came up with 8 easily disprovable falsehoods. Interesting, since you keep calling Trump a liar. Virtually everything out of your own keyboard is a lie. Do you think your hatred justifies this? It’s OK to behave like an animal to Melania Trump because you hate Trump’s politics?

              And you think to discredit Melania’s character while you display your own flaws with such alacrity?

              1. Whoops:

                #9 No education past high school. She actually studied architecture and design at the University of Ljubljana for one year before she dropped out to pursue international modeling full time.

                Do you know what I hear in your comments? Envy. I think you’re sick with it.

      3. “Allan says:December 2, 2019 at 11:11 AM
        Paul, Will the sinking of Joe Biden lead to a Michele Obama?”

        No.

      1. bill mcwilliams – I want Joe Biden, demented and finger biting as he is, to lead the Democratic Party.

        1. Funny. Joe is an ordinary Joe, never has been a sharp tool in the tool chest, duller now. “He is not only dull he is the cause of dullness in others.” This is Biden, someone who greatly exeeded his innate potential. Bravo for Joe. He is a safe pair of hands who will not lead us astray. There is nothing more than this.

          1. Anon1 is back with a new IP address. Surprised it took her this long

            Bravo for Joe. He is a safe pair of hands who will not lead us astray

            Uh huh… but then again all of the Left genuflected to Harvey “sex offender, #Metoo, Friend of Hillary and Meryl Streep“ Weinstein, but you still cant admit Bill Clinton abused Monica Lewinsky. So we will take your opinion on “Bravo for Joe” as an admission that Dems are threats to women

            Then there is Hunter Biden who beds anyone he gets near while getting paid millions by Ukraine “friend of Daddy” Burisma owner, Mykola Zlochevsky

            No wonder the DNC has 25 + presidential candidates running for the crown and scepter. Maybe they would do better in Venezuela or Bolivia

  12. And Turley continues to cheerlead for impeachment, looking for more ways in which “the case for impeachment could be greatly enhanced.” He is part of the establishment which will never accept the result of the constitunally conducted 2016 presidential election.

    1. “He is part of the establishment which will never accept the result of the constitunally conducted 2016 presidential election.”

      Correct Sir, AND, by the way, an establishment which is busy furiously working on not accepting the results of the Constitutionality conducted 2020 Presidential Election.

      “We also need to move quite quickly because we’re talking about the potential compromise of the 2020 elections,”
      “And so this is not just about something that has occurred; this is about preventing a potentially disastrous outcome from occurring next year.” – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

  13. The Democrats spent all their time on impeachment, almost nothing on governing the nation for the benefit of the American people. How much longer will the focus be on impeachment rather than things ike the USMCA trade agreement. So far they have been trying to impeach for 4 years while doing very little of value.

  14. Nancy Pelosi got out of Washington for some conference in Europe. She’s probably thanking god she had a reason to leave.

    1. Nancy is laughing her way to the bank at taxpayers expense knowing she and Obama have lied to Americans about everything. DNC Server, Russia, Fusion GPS, Mueller, emollients, etc….Resist my arse. The lying Democrats and fake news corporate pimps are fascists that make Mussolini blush

      1. Businessmen get rich because they sell goods or services to willing consumers. Good idea plus good execution plus agreeable price equals profit.

        Politicians get rich off of taxpayer expense. While behaving like robber barons, seizing taxes and assets, they accuse businessmen of being robber barons and target them to siphon off more of their wealth for their own benefit…namely getting votes.

        1. “Businessmen get rich because they sell goods or services to willing consumers. ”

          The leftist Democratic way is for “businesses” to sell goods or services to unwilling consumers while the leftist Democrats get rich.

          1. i see google and cbs now won’t sell political ads to Trump. they are bragging about having censored over 300 of his ads. this should meet with outrage, but when the corporate media controls the echo chamber, it won’t

            things are degenerating fast. its going to get ugly

            1. “things are degenerating fast.”

              Yes, Kurtz, I agree but we can see that we are dealing with people that are selfish and only want to protect their own right to free speech. They do not care about the Republic that others fought for.

  15. Real History 101
    Watergate was a coup against the Constitution by the President who was spying on the Democrats to stop them from getting elected.
    DeRpstategate was and still is a coup against the Constitution by the Democrats who are spying on the Presdent to stop him from being elected…again.

    1. Trump is a Professional phony! The president is barring testimony from his aides and others because they have damaging information. Why do. I say that because when someone works so hard to hide evidence there is a presumption in the law that says it can be presumed damaging. The president could rebut this assumption by allowing the testimony.

            1. Oh look, the friendless, misanthropic, lonely af sock puppet is answering his own comments, desperate for validation

              Sad af

              1. Anonymous the Stupid, I am not really a Republican and I wouldn’t classify Trump as a Republican either even though he won under the Republican banner. Had he been a Republican he wouldn’t have run into so much trouble. Both parties seem to be changing. The Repbulicans in a good way while the Democrats have become crazy leftists look for support from people that aren’t too bright and those like Anonymous the Stupid that are downright ignorant.

                  1. Anonomous the Stupid, your constant copying of what I say is flattering but only demonstrates the legitimacy of your name.

      1. http://www.tomheneghanbriefings.com/Naval-Intelligence-Sweep-Continues_12-01-2019.html

        AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc. of Richmond, Virginia has clearly confirmed to U.S. President Donald J Trump under Operation : StillPoint that All Lawful National Debt Obligations will be paid in full forthwith, under Chairman Leo Emil Wanta Presidential Mandate. http://eagleonetowanta.com Thank you for caring for Our Great Nation, America, Once a Constitutional Republic.

      2. Justice Holmes – Trump does not have due process. Democrats have openly investigated him since even before he won the 2016 election, desperately trying to find any evidence of any possible crime. For years. They have leveled one serious false allegation after another, because if they can’t impeach him, perhaps they can give voters false information…like the fake dossier they got from the Russians.

        Facts:
        1. No one on Earth told Ambassador Sondland aid to Ukraine was tied to any investigation. He just “presumed” it, which means he made it up.
        2. The “whistleblower” political anti-Trump activist with ties to the Democrat Presidential campaigns of 2020 misrepresented the Ukraine call. He never heard it, himself. He just made up gossip about it that the transcripts proved was untrue.
        3. Ambassador Taylor admitted that the Ukraine knew nothing about any quid pro quo allegation until Politico released the news. it is literally impossible to have a quid pro quo if the other side was never made aware of it.
        4. Everyone who claimed there was a quid pro quo has no original source. They named people who told them, who were all brought in for questioning. They all claimed they heard it from each other. Sondland admitted he just presumed there was, which means that he and the “whistleblower” likely started the rumors themselves.
        5. THIS is what the impeachment attempt is based upon: https://youtu.be/J3pxtj9P3T4
        6. Democrats tried to change the allegations to bribery, which has also been discarded.

        Now, Democrats have pivoted. Now they claim that if they only had access to even more Administration officials, they could grill them, and perhaps find some evidence of some possible crime. Let’s just keep persecuting everyone connected to Trump. It’s been 3 years now. Perhaps somehow they can find something.

        Democrats refuse to accept the results of the 2016 election. Look at Natacha, for example. She’s still adamant that Trump cheated and that the election isn’t valid. There are more people like her, who just blindly believe what they hear on the MSM. They champion false allegations, discard them, forget all about them, and move on. Over. And over. And over again. They have no idea that they’ve lost all credibility, 3 years and 15 false allegations later. All of this is just an attempt to keep the false allegation assembly line going. They hope that even though it’s all been disproven, or failed to be proven, the constant false allegations will be in the back of voters’ minds in 2020. Trump bad. Trump bad. Trump bad. It’s like subliminal conditioning at this point. Provide facts that dispute this, and give a reason to hate Trump a smidgeon less, and they lash out, refusing to read, let alone believe, the facts.

        Only a fool would cooperate with an attempted coup. Trump was far more transparent than Obama ever was. He provided two transcripts and other evidence that exonerated him. After that, he won’t cooperate more than is legally necessary.

        It troubles me that your avatar contains the name “justice.” Would not a judge understand about the legal necessity of defense?

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