We have been discussing the controversy after a Rhode Island Professor Eric Loomis declared that there was “nothing wrong” with the killing of Aaron “Jay” Danielson, the member of the right-wing group Patriot Prayer by Michael Reinoehl, an Antifa member. He insisted that the decision of whether to take the life of a “fascist” is purely a tactical, not moral, decision. Connecticut History Professor Manisha Sinha also weighed in on the issue. She referred to the killing of Reinoehl a “hit job” by police while using the same language of the killing of Danielson as a matter of tactics. She was cited by Loomis in a post.
Scott Greenfield at Simple Justice flagged the tweet because he disagreed with the thrust of her objection to the police account:
Greenfield correctly notes that the police report is disturbingly vague about how “there was gunfire” when they attempted to arrest Reinoehl on a charge of second degree murder. I would also like more information on whether Reinoehl fired his weapon. Witnesses have said that no warnings were given before the gunfire.
I agree that more details are needed though the labeling of the killing of as a “hit job” and “an extrajudicial killing ordered by Trumpsters” is wildly unjustified. The contrast in the two killing however is astonishing. Killing a conservative protester is a matter of “tactics,” but Sinha treats the killing of a suspected murderer on the run in an arrest is clearly murder. Indeed, she leaves it as an open question “whether you disagree with Michael Reinoehl’s tactics.” Thus, people like Loomis could be right that the question of taking the life of this individual was merely a matter of tactics not morality.
Putting aside the Reinoehl shooting which is being investigated, it is Sinha’s dismissal of the first killing as a tactical question that is so troubling. Danielson did not have a gun. Reinoehl gave an interview on the run in which he admitted to killing him. Rienoehl had a criminal record involving gun charges before the killing.
As I stated in the earlier blog post, what is so striking is how Danielson is no longer treated as a human being with family or even individual worth. This is just a question of tactics. I am sure that there are conservative students, even far right people, at the University of Connecticut. Would the killing of any of those students also be just a tactical concern for Professor Sinha or others?
The dismissal of the immorality of such killings is deeply troubling, particularly when espoused by academics. Simply calling someone a “fascist” does not make them fungible and worthless. Again, I support the free speech rights of both Professors Loomis and Sinha in espousing such views, but the silence of other academics to condemn such remarks is troubling.
Squeeky — “Wasn’t the police standing down, and not doing their job the real act of anarchy…”
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Well said! Anarchy is literally an absence of government or authority. Democrat politicians have abdicated authority where it touched on public safety. They will still be around to empty your purse or nag you about their latest delusions unfortunately.
Thanks Young!!! I think Mike Appleton was right, but just missed the point of where the anarchy was also occurring – on the governmental side too.
I guess it was vigilantism when the Indians used to raid the settlers, and the settlers formed groups to hunt them down. But what choice was there? The cavalry was no where to be found quite often.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Police chiefs, FBI directors, DHS directors and 100% of all government personnel – as a condition of retaining authority over citizens – pledges supreme (and superseding) loyalty to operate within the legal boundaries of the U.S. Constitution under Article VI and other articles. Rank & file officers, similar to the military, are required to follow illegal orders. Betraying one’s supreme loyalty oath by violating the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment (equal treatment/enforcement) could be interpreted by some as anarchy also. The U.S. Department of Justice, on occasion, criminally prosecuted officials that betray their loyalty oath under statutes like Title 18 US Code 245 or 1983. The premise of the American “constitutional rule of law” is that the “ends” never justify illegal or unconstitutional means. The only exception is when officials are prosecuting other government officials for violating citizens’ constitutional rights. For example: Stop & Frisk has always been illegal under the 4th Amendment.
orders are orders. there is no state without them. if every subordinate can decide that some vague paper justifies obedience then there is no chain of command and the state evaporates.
so yes justifying disobedience because of vague concepts of this or that is a path to anarchy
in a military context, disobedience of orders may lead to an insubordinate soldier such as a deserter being shot lawfully under exigent circumstances.
the idea that anybody besides the highest level of officials can just choose to rebel against orders in a war footing is pure fantasy.,
the United States the laws about policing work pretty well however and the vague constitutional imperatives have been fleshed out well by case law statutes and regulations.
the problem now is not unconstitutional orders it is INCOMPETENT DEMOCRAT MAYORS WHO REFUSE TO DO THEIR DUTY TO RESTORE LAW AND ORDER
the pendulum is swinging against all the ambiguous ideological dreck which is tossed about to justify anarchy.]
I guarantee that government by men of flesh and bone who act with vigor in good faith interests of the people, is going to make a big comeback.
anarchists and their cousins the liberterians will not like that but they will both be shunted aside by people who are not befuddled by empty bromides
Generally agree with you. If you support legal constitutional protesting and want police reforms, criticisms should be directed towards top-management, mayors and police unions NOT those officers following orders. Rank & file officers shouldn’t be the target of criticism, since they simply follow orders – even illegal orders from sometimes disloyal supervisors that violate their Article VI oath of office and that of their state constitutions. If we want real progress on police reforms, you can’t view superiors and subordinates (following orders) as a monolithic group, criticizing good officers actually hurts your cause.
In the true life movie “Nuremberg”, Robert Jackson (played by Alec Baldwin) shows how dangerous “dehumanizing” humans and “tribalism” can be. Although this movie was about how Nazis during WWII brain-washed the German police, military and regular citizens to commit evil atrocities, these same tactics have been used recently by American hate groups to attack immigrants, LGBT Americans, Jewish Americans, African-Americans and even Barack Obama [source: Ferguson Report published by the US Department of Justice In 2014 where Ferguson officials dehumanized Barack Obama].
Rarely mentioned, but Jackson believed “arbitrary warrantless searches” by government authorities (especially prosecutors) was the most dangerous tyranny for any nation. Although arbitrary warrantless searches seem harmless, it creates the foundation for additional abuses. When these unconstitutional searches are combined with dehumanization and tribalism, there are genuinely evil consequences for any nation – including the USA.
Jackson ironically, is the most recent U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Attorney General and Solicitor General that never had a law degree. We need more like him.
I think this would be more understandable if we quit viewing these people as normal, sane individuals, and instead view them as what they are– religious fanatics. Many Democrats and Leftists have gone off the deep end on the Democratic Party Narrative, the same way some people go off the deep end over Christianity. I think this is the result of a certain mindset, or maybe Jungian archetype that manifests itself in different ways over different time periods. Move these people back in time a hundred years and they would be busting up saloons and trying to save fallen women from alcohol. Move them to 1930-1940s Germany, and they would be just peachy with rounding up the Jews. Move them back several hundred years and they would be burning heretics at the stake. Or prosecuting witches, as in Europe, and then Salem.
The root of the current manifestation is the whole “we are on the side of the angels” belief among Democrats – that they are good and moral and smart and anybody who isn’t one of them is on the side of the devils. Just like the Spanish Inquisitors thought they were on the side of God, It explains the violent SJWS who are literally trying to burn people (heretics) alive with Molotov cocktails. It explains the Original Sin-like attributes of White Privilege, and the hysterical over-reaction to people who simply say All Lives Matter. And the burning need (literally sometimes) to rewrite history and dwell on 1492 and 1619. It explains the hyperbole about Global Warming and its apocalyptic effect on Earth.
There is even a parallel between “safe spaces” and the “sanctuary” aspect of churches. It explains the hysteria over various symbols like the Confederate flag, or statues of Columbus. It is simply religious fervor and fanaticism unmoored from a physical church building or any actual belief in a god. In fact, the current religious fanatics of the woke Democratic Left are anti-religion and anti-Christianity most of the time. But I surmise that it is more of a Catholic vs. Protestant schism or interdenominational squabble. This is why you see the tremendous pressure on Free Speech, and the attempt to shut down any dissenting view – because those views are not just arguably “wrong”, but are blasphemy and heresy. You even have a tie-in to “transubstantiation” where instead of the bread becoming the actual body of Christ, a man can become a woman, and vice versa, just because they have that Democratic Party faith.
Outside of the cynical power mad maniacs like Pelosi, the Democrat Party is simply being led by religious fanatics. The Democrats had to go to a faith-based belief system because their main theories about life have turned out to be crap. No, you can’t replace fathers with a welfare check. No, you can’t make black people equal by affirmative action and test score-padding. No, you can’t be nice to criminals and cut down crime. No, feminism doesn’t work, which is why you have to import religiously conservative baby-makers from Mexico and Central America. No, smoking dope doesn’t make you a better person, or a better citizen. No, people who burn down buildings and loot shoe stores are not oppressed.
Democrats are starting to be confronted with the fact that cities and states they have run for decades are not the paradises that were promised. No, by and large they suck. Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, etc. And it is becoming more obvious to sensible people. Electing Democrats did not make things all better. So that is why they need to double down on that Old Time Religion, so to speak, and wasn’t that FDR a pip way back when!
And it is not going to get any better. As they are constantly barraged by real, actual facts as opposed to politically correct facts, they are going to become more mentally unraveled. They are already clamoring to defund the police, which pits them against the cynical wing of the party who knows that is nonsense. They are clamoring to secede, and just like the Old Time Puritans, they are trying to set up their own autonomous zones for “religious freedom” purposes, where they can worship at the altar of Social Justice. Delusional people do not go down easily. They go out kicking and screaming.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I wish conservative students would flood these jerk teachers classes and then disrupt their brainwashing. Someone needs to stand up to them.
1 of 3:
“Theodore Roosevelt: Anarchist is the enemy of humanity
“When compared with the suppression of anarchy every other question sinks into insignificance. The anarchist is the enemy of humanity, the enemy of all mankind, and his is a deeper degree of criminality than any other. No immigrant is allowed to come to our shores if he is an anarchist; and no paper published here or abroad should be permitted circulation in this country if it propagates anarchist opinions.”
– President Theodore Roosevelt (April 9, 1908)”
https://www.interference.cc/anarchism-enemy-humanity-teddy-roosevelt/
2 of 3:
Thought this piece was really good & timely. The 1st 10-15 minutes piece espiecally. Pass it on please.:
“Matt Bracken On Armed Communities And Self Defense
Sep 10, 2020 ”
https://banned.video/watch?id=5f5aadc1af4ce8069e737e57
The right to break the law or infringe upon another’s rights because you disagree politically is being espoused by liberals now because there is little push back. Trump is only supported by grass roots working Americans and is opposed by all forces of power and the status quo. In fact, Trump owes his success to that. The election will hinge on how many are threatened by Trump’s success than America’s failure.
The Democrats and Liberals are supporting anarchists and murderers. This professor supports a killer who killed an un-armed protester for his politics is a danger to society. He should be condemned. We need to be vigilant of the likely violence of these Democrats and Liberals when President Trump wins in November. They are a scary group and anyone who supports them is a danger to peaceful society. Like so many of these Democrats and liberals they are violent and disgusting and un-American.
What a pity the DOJ/FBI/Judicial system & other Govt bureaucracies are no long representing the American people & have collapsed.
Where the hell is AG Barr & Durham on rounding up Traitors to the US, Comey the Commie, Hillary, Obama, McCabe etc…….???????
Times up Trump, just release all their Docs so the public Knows everything before the (se) election.
“Police shot Portland slaying suspect without warning or trying to arrest him first, witness says”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/10/reinoehl-portland-antifa-killing-police/
Excerpt:
As national politicians, including Trump, demanded Reinoehl be swiftly arrested, officers in the Pacific Northwest Violent Offender Task Force tracked him to Lacey, about 120 miles north of Portland.
There are few official details about what happened next. At least four members of the task force, which included officers from a variety of local agencies, fired dozens of times at Reinoehl; the U.S. Marshals Service later said he had a handgun, but it wasn’t clear whether he had ever fired it at police.
Dinguss said he never saw Reinoehl pull out a gun.
He said he watched as two unmarked police vehicles converged on Reinoehl as he walked to his car, holding his phone and chewing on a piece of candy. The officers never audibly identified themselves and didn’t try to arrest Reinoehl, Dinguss said.
Instead, he said they immediately began firing. When Reinoehl heard the gunfire, he ducked behind his car, which was pinned in by the law enforcement vehicles; he never tried to get inside, Dinguss said, and he never saw him reaching for a weapon. Dinguss said he watched police unleash rapid-fire rounds at Reinoehl, once pausing to shout “Stop!” before resuming their fire.
Dinguss added officers waited “multiple minutes” before rendering medical aid to Reinoehl, who died at the scene from several gunshot wounds.
The Thurston County Sheriff’s Office, which is investigating Reinoehl’s death, didn’t immediately return a message about Dinguss’s account; a spokesman for the Marshals declined to comment, citing the ongoing investigation.
Laughlin called for the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office to reassign their investigation, alleging the agency has a conflict of interest since it procured the search warrants against Reinoehl.
“A completely independent agency with no involvement in the events must conduct the investigation,” Laughlin said. “However, the level of involvement of TCSO in the criminal investigation of Reinoehl is questionable.” -Washington Post
If the mayors of Seattle and Portland got control of their cities we wouldn’t be having these discussions.
It’s a dead giveaway when your star witness is named “Dinguss”!
ha ha what are all these people watching too many cowboy movies? do they think the marshalls have to wait for this creep to turn around and draw?
as soon as he ducked he began evading arrest and that was it.
here’s a tip. if you want to survive a felony arrest, especially one where you are on a bulletin as armed and dangerous– the minute they tell you to do something, ONLY DO THAT AND DO NOTHING ELSE. if they say “stop” you freeze. if they say “hands on your head” the hands go up on the head. If they say lie down,. you lie down. Anything else may get you a piece of hot lead piercing your forehead.
Kurtz, I sent the gun vs knife video you posted to a retired highway patrol friend. He liked it, reminded him of some of his training videos, and added that reporters and the public have no idea how little time they have to act when a situation goes sideways. It is never a fair fight, whatever that is. Easy for a pumpkin in an office like Don Lemon to believe he is finding fault, but he understands nothing.
https://twitter.com/ErikLoomis/status/1304148631860252672
“Erik Loomis
@ErikLoomis
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1h
Haven’t had any hate mail from fascists for an hour. Getting kind of lonely here.”
These people have no place in universities instructing young people, I think they might do better in a place like Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum in West Virginia.
I guess we’ve heard the last about MIchael Flynn from Prof Turley. Lots has happened after his last remarks. Now I guess what’s hot is what different universities (those bastions of right thought) are doing or not doing. I am disappointed.
New England profs bringing the heat!! Looks like they’ve had it with the standard Floptop way of doing business these days. No shortage of wingnuts willing to take it to the streets.
As soon as these wingnuts get any kind of physical pushback we’ll see most of them turn into snowflakes.
‘We’re No. 28! And Dropping!’
A measure of social progress finds that the quality of life has dropped in America over the last decade, even as it has risen almost everywhere else.
By Nicholas Kristof
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/09/opinion/united-states-social-progress.html
We Americans like to say “We’re No. 1.” But the new data suggest that we should be chanting, “We’re No. 28! And dropping!”
Let’s wake up, for we are no longer the country we think we are. -Nicholas Kristof
Our civic life would marginally improve were Nicholas Kristof no longer a part of it.
“This is absurd…” returns as Art Deco. So many aliases over the years…
Love the new name but Teaching Spastics … still has a lot of appeal.
https://www.socialprogress.org/?code=USA
Quality of life. Let New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland and Chicago lead the way. I’m sure any foreign tourist would put these cities on their itenerary.
I guess this means that people will stop coming here.
The social progress index? LOL. This is what happens when SJWs trip over their parent’s calculator.
Again, both Loomis and Sinha are historians, both are specialists in American history, both have tenure, and both have responsible positions in their departments (one is director of the graduate program, the other has an endowed chair). These characters are considered perfectly acceptable in their departments. And that is why their departments should no longer exist and all the faculty therein discharged. Maybe down the road it will be possible to teach history at these places, not now. Kennesaw Mountain Landis shows you the way.
I fully support academic freedom in the pursuit of one’s scholarship in their field.
Outside of their field, these professors should be held to the same standard as the rest of us, and their organizations should have just as much discretion in dealing with them as my company would have with me if I was publicly saying such things.
Furthermore, I have no idea if I would get fired from my company, but at a minimum, I would expect that my peers would lose confidence and trust in me and as such I wouldn’t be nearly as valuable to my team or the company and that would obviously negatively impact my career.
And that’s a good thing.
It’s a disgrace to the human race.
Which race, I don’t know.
Odd that the truly fascist attitudes are coming from Loomis and Sinha. Apparently they don’t know as much history as they thought.
She is a contributor to the 1619 Project. Her assignment is to rewrite history from the security of a tenured professorship. The pose she struck for her picture reminds me of Natasha in Bullwinkle.
You’re missing the point. These people feel they are in a war, and in war the objective is to kill the enemy. Actually, they’re right. This is a war and soon it’s going to get bad, really bad. I’ve seen blood; it’s going to be running in the streets, especially if Joe Biden manages to somehow get in the White House. Part wars were fought by military forces. This one is going to be guerrilla warfare on both sides and a lot of people are going to die.
“Part wars” should be “Previous wars.” Thanks, autocorrect!
Universities represent the ultimate disgrace. For example, Penn State, the ‘Sanctuary City for Paedophiles’, has for decades operated a child sex trafficking enterprise, grooming tens of thousands of innocent children for the sexual depravity of well connected politicians, wealthy donors, and high ranking university administrators. Penn State bribed former FBI Director Louis Freeh to whitewash the scandal, and then delivered several young boys to former Democratic Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell for his hideous depravity in exchange for the early release of Pedophile State from NCAA sanctions. Newly unsealed documents revealed George Mitchell’s connection to Jeffrey Epstein https://www.vanityfair.com/…. Does the media possess the journalistic integrity to investigate the George Mitchell-Louis Freeh-Paedophile State-Joel Myers-Barry Myers international child sex trade operation?
For example, Penn State, the ‘Sanctuary City for Paedophiles’, has for decades operated a child sex trafficking enterprise, grooming tens of thousands of innocent children for the sexual depravity of well connected politicians, wealthy donors, and high ranking university administrators.
You need to quit cluttering up these boards with your sick-o fantasies.
And you need to stop trying to dictate to others.
“Newly unsealed documents revealed George Mitchell’s connection to Jeffrey Epstein https://www.vanityfair.com/….”
Bad link.
Any defense of vigilantism, regardless of the background or perceived moral depravity of the victim, is an endorsement of anarchy, a rejection of the notion of a government of laws and a complete repudiation of the social contract.
Mike
Started reading from the top.
The loonies are out in force.
Delighted to find a thoughtful comment.
Any defense of vigilantism, regardless of the background or perceived moral depravity of the victim, is an endorsement of anarchy,
It is nothing of the kind. Sorosphere DAs are using draconian measures against the rest of us while refusing to prosecute their political pets. That’s on top of the stand-down orders the police are getting from sorosphere mayors. When the law breaks down, self-help is legitimate.
Mike Appleton, great post!
Mike A:
“Any defense of vigilantism, regardless of the background or perceived moral depravity of the victim, is an endorsement of anarchy, a rejection of the notion of a government of laws and a complete repudiation of the social contract.”
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Not “any” defense, Mike. Your rule only applies when the government lives up to its responsibilities to protect the innocent citizens under the social contract. When it doesn’t do that, vigilantism is assuredly not anarchism, it’s patriotism and restoration of social order. Moreover, it’s natural justice. As Hobbes points out, even is a situation where the government (Sovereign) acts poorly it is to be respected as it stands between civilization and the state of nature. However, when governemnt fails to deliver society from the state of nature, the contract is void and the citizens may act as its substitute to impose order.
Mespo, Hi!
For ever reason 1 of 3 ended up at the top of the thread… A TR 1908 quote about anarchists?? Anyway, here are the other 2:
2 of 3:
Thought this piece was really good & timely. The 1st 10-15 minutes piece especially. Pass it on please.:
“Matt Bracken On Armed Communities And Self Defence
Sep 10, 2020 ”
https://banned.video/watch?id=5f5aadc1af4ce8069e737e57
3 of 3:
“Ultra Deep State Operative Steve Piezcenik Exposes Failed Coup Plot Against Trump
Sep 10, 2020”
https://banned.video/watch?id=5f5aae3eaf4ce8069e7385dc
Good stuff Oky1
Oky, I think Steve Piezcenik is off his rocker and has been a long time
I may watch that later but I was hoping Alex Jones has offloaded him from the regular appearances list.
meanwhile, remember this folks. Alex was right– the water is making the frogs gay!
https://www.newsweek.com/female-frogs-estrogen-hermaphrodites-suburban-waste-369553
No, not necessarily. Consider this scenario – savage blacks and white SJWs are burning and looting stores and buildings. The police stand down and let them do their thing. A group of armed vigilantes comes in and starts hog-tying the rioters and shooting those who have Molotov cocktails. And beating the crap out of the rest of them.
Is that act of vigilantism “anarchy” or was it a return to order? Wasn’t the police standing down, and not doing their job the real act of anarchy – where government did not do what it was put into place to do?
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter