Years ago, we discussed the controversial case of Michele Carter, a teenager convicted of murder after encouraging a friend to commit suicide. The case raised difficult free speech questions. Now there is another equally troubling case out of Oklahoma, though the criminal charges should be less controversial. Jaye Dee Watts, 44, (shown here with an apt shirt reading “Dogs: Because People Suck”) is charged with giving her 72-year-old mother a handgun after berating her and saying “Do with it what you f***ing will, b—h.” Her mother, Lynda Watts, then killed herself.
Watts is charged with felony murder connected to caretaker abuse and kidnapping. The most serious evidence was retrieved from Ring camera footage from inside the home that allegedly showed Jaye Dee Watts berating her mother. She reportedly calls her a toddler and says “take your pill or choke on it and die.” She is also reportedly heard saying “Oh, I’m raising a 72-year-old toddler,” she allegedly said. “I can talk to you however I f—— want to.”
At one point, she leaves the bedroom and returns with the handgun and shows her how to remove it from the holster. She then says “Do with it what you f***ing will, b***h.” She also retrieved a drill and said that she was going to lock her in the bedroom. Moments later, Lynda fired two shots killing herself.
It is a nightmarish account. This is not the Carter case. Watts was dealing with a mother with evidence of dementia and threatened her with being walled into her room.
The kidnapping charge is interesting, but under Oklahoma law confinement is contained within the scope of the crime:
“Every person who, without lawful authority, forcibly seizes and confines another, or inveigles or kidnaps another, for the purpose of extorting any money, property or thing of value or advantage from the person so seized, confined, inveigled or kidnapped, or from any other person, or in any manner threatens either by written instrument, word of mouth, message, telegraph, telephone, by placing an ad in a newspaper, or by messenger, demands money or other thing of value, shall be guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall suffer death or imprisonment in the State Penitentiary, not less than ten (10) years.”
That is a felony, so the death can constitute felony murder.
Watts was able to post a $1 million bond and was released.
Watts could claim a type of mental duress, though this would seem to fall short of an insanity defense standard. Since this is a suicide, she will likely insist that it was her mother’s decision and action. However, giving a gun to an elderly person with dementia and then threatening that person would seem a strong basis for prosecution.
Even if she is able to knock down the felony murder charge, she would still be facing a strong elderly abuse charge. It is possible that she could argue that she never actually used the drill to imprison her mother (it is not clear from the reports).
In any case, it looks likely that Watts herself will be facing confinement for many years to come.
Was mommy a “burden”? Did she self-abort by Choice?
Assisted suicide is official government policy in Canada.
Imagine that you are nearing the end of your life. Who would you want looking after your interests?
A hospital functionary applying a set of government regulations?
-or-
Your children?
Planned parent/hood? Perhaps. They would probably assume/assert the mother’s mental acuity to make a viable choice.
“She reportedly calls her a toddler and says “take your pill or choke on it and die.” She is also reportedly heard saying “Oh, I’m raising a 72-year-old toddler,” she allegedly said. “I can talk to you however I f—— want to.”
At one point, she leaves the bedroom and returns with the handgun and shows her how to remove it from the holster. She then says “Do with it what you f***ing will, b***h.” She also retrieved a drill and said that she was going to lock her in the bedroom. Moments later, Lynda fired two shots killing herse”
**********************************
I suspect that any punishment meted out by a court in this life pales in comparison with the anticipted punishment in the next. Ice water, anyone?
An excellent example of why defendants deserve competent representation and a jury of their peers. No law, however thoughtfully written, can fairly address tragedies of such complexity, nor can any prosecutor, however dedicated, conjure up the insight demanded by so challenging a set of circumstances. This case belongs in a courtroom.
Old School Fool,
Great observation and well said.
The woman was charged, will a jury convict? Independent Bob.
Of course, this is absolutely ridiculous liberalism.
The whole of society is ultimately related to this suicide, therefore, all of society is guilty of murder.
The thing is, all you people who accept this, and all other forms of, madness, are similarly mad and guilty of aiding and abetting insanity.
The only person guilty of suicide is the person who committed the suicide by conscious personal decision.
Every gun dealer in America should be afraid, very afraid of the mission-creeping madness of liberals.
Repeal America back to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the State-restricted vote of the Constitution.
Re-discover your discrimination and rationality.
Wake up, America.
Prof. Turley,
While this case is “shocking”, I do not think it is nearly so clear as you.
We do not know the extent of dementia in this woman – though I am NOT sure it matters.
If she was in early stages – the decision to shoot herself was reasonably her own.
In my personal experience even later stage dimensia patients would choose to kill themselves if they had the capacity to do so.
And the kidnapping charges are even more contingent on whether this was early or late dimensia.
My father had vascular dimensia. While we never locked him in his room – he had sufficient resources we could provide care for him and did not need to, given the freedom of ordinary adults – he would have accidentially or otherwise killed himself and possibly others.
He slowly went from being an excellent driver who never had an accident in his life to a serious threat to the safety of others on the road.
We bought a key for his car on ebay that looked exactly like the normal key – but did not start the car.
Was that a crime ?
As is common with the elderly he had multiple concurrent health problems with conflicting treatment.
He chose and as his power of attorney I allowed him to go off medication that increased his risk of strokes but decreased his risk of bleeding to death – which he nearly did on multiple occasions.
Was that a crime ?
People with dimensia are very much like todlers – except for one thing – especially early on they KNOW what is happening to them, they are angry, frustrated, and often incredibly difficult to deal with.
If they end up in care – they WILL be locked up.
Is it a crime for a relative to lock their care up so they can not wonder about dangerously, but not a crime for the memory care unit at a senior living center to do the same ?
Finally – I do not know all the facts here – and neither do you.
But I am long way from knowing that this woman shooting herself was not the best outcome under the circumstances.
I would far rather die of cancer than dimensia, and I will commit suicide if I am diagnosed with dimensia, and I will do it while I am still able to do so.
Should I miss that oportunity – I would hope someone else would give it back to me.
Dimensia is a horrible way to die. Not only is it horrible for the patient, it is horrible in what it does to those who care for them, and it is horrible because atleast part of the time the person with deminsia KNOWS the harm they are causing their care givers and it is beyond their power to stop.
I was very fortunate. My fathers dimensia progressed rapidly, and MOSTLY he was not angry and difficult, and he had sufficient resources that we could pay to provide him carers – eventually 24×7.
Even so there is no possibility I would put a loved one through my own dimensia.
I would further note that the very presence of the ring camera’s inside the home is a strong indication that the dimensia was pretty bad and that the woman was a danger to herself and others. and that dealing with her was incredibly stressful
I’ve read online comments before like, “I’ve told my children if I can’t tie my shoes to turn out the lights.” Everyone should plan ahead and make their own decisions about end-of-life matters. By the time they’re “diagnosed” with dementia there’ll already be many pieces of evidence and they’ll be incompetent to make those decisions.
My mother was pretty much herself on her 90th birthday. I took a picture of her taking a call from another family member on that day. The next few years of her life were very like the first few years of mine, in reverse. It started with me tying her shoes. Then I was helping her go the bathroom so she wouldn’t fall down and hit her head. Then cutting up her food. Then spoon-feeding. Ultimately she couldn’t sit up by herself or eat solid food.
She mistook me for my father, her father, her brother (who is this guy coming into the bathroom when I’m in the tub? Must be my little brother). I felt like I’d graduated when she mistook me for her mother. I thought, I wipe her hands, I wipe her mouth, I wipe her bottom: I am her mother! My very first memory in my life is me waiting for her to wipe my sticky hands and “fix me” in a way I couldn’t do myself.
We tried assisted living and added 24-hour caregivers. I put myself in the schedule for one 12-hour day shift and one 12-hour night shift per week and I was always the backup if one was sick. Generally they were afraid to take her for any exercise or to the dining room for some slight socialization. But I took her out to restaurants and made her walk every day until she couldn’t, less than two months before she died.
When I started helping her in the bathroom, she told me, “Creekan, I never thought you’d be doing this.” I said, “You did it for me.” She got a dreamy look on her face and said, “Babies are so easy and so loving.” I took that as a compliment that my sister and I had been easy, loving babies and thought to myself, they’re so easy and loving they’ll come back in 62 years and help pull up your underpants! If I can remember that on my deathbed, I’ll die laughing.
About three months before she died, we were at the hairdresser. We’d been going there every week for months and had gotten to know the other hairdressers and clients. My mother rarely spoke. The hairdresser said, “I’m picking up my dog at the hospital after this.” My mind started working a flowchart: old dog, young dog? injury or chronic condition? I was utterly stumped as to what to say. My mother said, “What’s your dog’s name?” Everyone was surprised that she had spoken and I blurted, “That’s a very good question!” My mother was still showing me how to be a human being.
Creekan,
That was very moving and good insight.
Thank you for sharing that.
Creekan, my oldest sister is at that point right now in a nursing home. For all practical purposses she’s already gone. Independent Bob
It was not just the case of giving a gun to her mother, but of berating her in such a way that she despised her life.
Why would she give a gun to her mother if she did not really suggest she kills herself?
The only thing the daughter did not do was pull the trigger. She set up the scene, gave her mother the tool and told her what to do to end her own life.
That daughter deserves to be charged with murder.
Just for the record Michellle Carter was convinced of manslaughter, not murder.
You are correct. Shame on Prof. Turley for making such a careless and senseless factual and legal error in the very first sentence of this story. What he wrote sounded so preposterous that I checked it out before reading the rest of this piece. I wouldn’t have made such an error even in high school.
I suppose Prof. Turley simply slipped a cog and confused manslaughter with murder. Any law school professor ought to be able to lecture for an hour on the various gradations of homicide. He needs to take a long look in the mirror and ask himself whether this site is really doing any good when he neglects to get any meaningful peer review or proofreading before posting.
You sound like a Democrat that Turley made look stupid more than once.
What we are experiencing here is not so much how to parse the law as much as we are seeing the ramifications, ultimately, of The Enlightenment. Societies have, historically, created codes of moral conduct which were required to allow many people to live together in groups larger than the tribe. Take, for example, the 10 Commandments; half were dedicated to restricting the behaviors that would lead to societal chaos – such as honor they father and they mother, thou shalt not kill, etc. These prohibitions were necessary because of the inherent proclivities of humans. When the Enlightenment freed our minds from such restraints, those still adhering to a moral core based on religious principles were able to construct a system of government that is embodied in our constitution that relied on its citizens to adhere to those principles in order to function. Those who chose to reject such moral strictures were left to decide what was right/correct behavior based on their own concepts and we see, daily, how that has led to societal collapse and anarchy. I would say that what this woman did was reprehensible to me because I still adhere to those old moral prescripts, but to this woman – adrift on a sea of self-relevancy – her actions could be justified based on her own concepts of what is right and wrong. To blame her without realizing that we have laid the groundwork for such self-relevant behavior by accepting multicultural concepts and denying the age old wisdom of the necessity of agreed upon common moral values in a functioning culture is to, ultimately, lay the blame on those who have voted on such cultural changes as we have endured in the past 100+ years.
Whimsical Mamma,
You hit the nail on the head. Well stated.
Jeffrey Dahmer was interviewed by Stone Phillips on MSNBC in 1994. He said, “If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then what is the point in trying to modify your behavior to keep it in acceptable ranges?”
We would like to think that we are immune from the behavior of those who were complicit with the Nazi doctrine of annihilation of the “useless eaters” such as the mentally handicapped, the elderly, the disabled and of course the Jews. Look how much “progress” we’ve made. Those (mindless lemmings who have been filled with these ideas from our so called intellectual elites) who hate Jews and celebrate murder are currently out in the streets inn droves. Many of our states allow abortion up to the moment before birth and allow and encourage medical suicide. In the “medical setting”, murder is hidden from our eyes. It is murder still the same.
We live in a styrofoam society. We go to the store and buy our meat, dairy and eggs in neat little packages, perfectly wrapped in plastic wrap. In the old days, when a family did eat meat, they were acutely aware that someone had to slaughter the animal, dress it and butcher it. They knew that they were eating the flesh of a dead animal. We treat living and death the same. It often occurs in a sterile environment and we have lost touch with the reality of life, the beauty and dignity of life. That man was made in the image of God. That life is precious. That people get old and frail. That people have accidents or get sick and need care. We have lost much of our humanity.
This case is a gruesome example of the groundwork that has been laid for years and years by the so called intellectuals, the same type of intellectuals that carried out Hitler’s plan. That is to say that human life has no value nor should a person be allowed dignity.
Hopefully such incidents will “rock the complacency of secularist and Christians alike and bring us all into the quest for solutions for our deepest spiritual problems.” (The Death of Humanity: Richard Weikart).
Whimsicalmama, E.M.
Great comments.
As society continues it downward spiral, what was once considered to be normal behavior is now labeled ‘Far-right,” or MAGA.
“. . . they were acutely aware that someone had to slaughter the animal, dress it and butcher it.”
That is me, right there.
I have raised, slaughtered, butchered, processed over 20 hogs. Turkeys, ducks, chickens, rabbits and wild game. Want bacon to go with them eggs at breakfast? Turkey for Thanksgiving dinner? Someone has to do the hard part. Take the shot. Slit the throat. Part of the job I do not look forward to, but has to be done. I thank them for their sacrifice.
I look at a number of these so called intellects as “useless eaters.”
EM, birthrates are also crashing. The demographic crash of the human race is a bigger problem than global warming. Independent Bob.
“[W]e are seeing the ramifications, ultimately, of The Enlightenment.”
Why do people pontificate on issues about which they are ignorant?
Do you not know that there exists such a thing as a non-religious code of morality? Do you not know that the religious code you tout was responsible for the Dark and Middle Ages? Do you not know that the Enlightenment values of reason and individualism created the Scientific Revolution, and led ultimately to the creation of America and to the Industrial Revolution?
Do you not know that a keyboard warrior who hands out free medical advice can sicken a person? And that one who does so for values can sicken an entire culture?
The frustrating thing about this type of case is the wilful blindness people have in refusing to acknowledge that this type of behavior usually comes from somewhere. A wonderful sweet idyllic mother does not usually raise a monster. A wonderful father does not raise a Hunter Biden. Abusers beget abusers. None of which excuses anything but it would be nice if someone actually looked into the family background here. In our society, the mother is a kind of deity but there are plenty of abusive mothers out there. Before they lock this woman up and throw away the key, maybe someone should ask a few questions.
I remember a woman who had dementia, who was a wonderful person all the time that I knew her. She was a very hard worker. She cared for so many people through her life and took care of her own household. She became an angry person with dementia. Was it because she could not break down the wall that was entrapping her mind or was it because she had held so much in throughout her life? It is not something we can answer. In the a family, some children are good, some are bad ;some strive, some just do enough; some are good, some test the limits. Yes, some mothers and fathers are good parents and some are not. It is a very sad case for the family.
The Nation needs to have a conversation on ‘Exit’ policies. The carton of Milk in my fridge has an ‘expiration date’, and so do I, and so do You. How one chooses to ‘go out’ is Their right of free-speech. The ‘act’ of the exit is a statement, not the epitaph.
Could be: I’ve seen enough,
Could be: It’s time for me to go,
Could be: There are 8.3 Billion Humans on the Planet and we growing beyond It’s capacity,
Could be: I’ve been there and done enough,
Could be: I’m going out on the Top.
Could be: The best is yet to come.
…
Could be: Any thing They want to say about it.
That Person should have and has the right to the “Last Word” of Their’ speech.
I’m here Today, but may be gone Tomorrow.
I hardly think that your meaning of ‘My Way’ is or was the same as F.S. He loved life. It doesn’t read as though you have much respect for life. I guess you and Ayn Rand have a lot in common. Unfettered self interest, while altruism is not. The void of a historical meaning is just a void. That same void becomes your own self interest. Another description of Narcissism. What about others interests. I have lived through the death of my Step-dad (36 years) and my Mom who lived to 100. They both had interests which became the stimulus of waking up each morning with a purpose. I wish that I will be as fortunate.
Like you, what if we only allowed ourselves to be blinded to all but our own self-interest? Then would would my or your life be? And yes, there is no such thing as Soylent Green.
And just because Canada has assisted suicide doesn’t mean any other country should have it. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
IMO, what we need is a more humane way to deal with older people who gave birth to us, raised us, support us, encouraged us, celebrated our birthdays, and the list goes on. Not to mis-treat them, insult them by laying on them OUR world views of how their life should be and might likely change as we age.
I hear your opinion. I am not at ends with it, it is that when the time arrives there should be ‘uncomplicated options’ available to the Persons departure. The Exit Door is always in Our possession (for those of us with a capacity), it’s a cognitive choice to go through it, and do so with keeping dignity. The Persons “right-to-die” is just that, not Someone else. Having the means to do it with dignity intact (Without a gun in the case above) should be available. Have the means to go is not a cure all – it’s just that some people don’t realize that it’s time to go, so the facilities won’t solve all the problems, but it would reduce the number of problems that would occur without it.
You mentioned Soylent Green, I think the ‘Exit Facilities “euthanasia shop”‘ is an acceptable portrayal of a what should be available (Sol’s Goals). The Swiss have it, the U.S. has the Hemlock Society, and as mentioned the Canadians have programs.
With regard to the Case above. I ask, Who had the Last Word? (ret.). I think the Mother did. I also think that the Mother knew what she was doing and she did it to have the Last Word. In fact I think the Mother always had the Last Word throughout the Daughters life, and played the Mother Card so much and often that it finally brought and broke down the Daughter to a moment of insanity, that She left a loaded Gun on the night stand and left the conversation open by saying in a way: You have the Last Word again Mother. And the Mother did.
Tragic, Yes the Daughter should have just walked away, but the Mother would just continue the next time around.
The Mothers personality disorder drove the Daughter insane. However when it came down for the Mother to stop and let it go, she decided on her own to have the Last Word. She did it “Her Way”.
There are a lot of people like this Mother, You have seen them in the work place, You have seen them on the street, You have seen them plenty of places always having to have the Last Word. And Yes – They dive a lot of good people Nuts.
Who am I to deny them Their Freedom of Speech – It’s Their demise, not mine, just walk away.
Soylent Green – Sol’s Goals
https://scifiinterfaces.com/2022/09/13/thanatorium-the-patients-experience/
EXIT
exit.ch/en/
The Hemlock Society
hemlocksocietysandiego.org/
I don’t understand what has been happening to a livable life these days. There seems to me to be many more homicides from people that one would not expect, there are just more homicides of Mom’s and kids these days. One could say that there is a loss of respecting life. The rate and type of homicide is just to me, unfathomable. Mom’s killing their kids, Mom’s and kids disappearing, only later to be found dead.
Is this a loss of a base moral belief system? If not then what is the cause of this murder rate, murder that has no consequences for most murderers? Is it because there is little likelihood of 1. getting caught, and / or 2. being punished in a ‘Capital’ way?
I hope some good people here have some ideas as to why this is happening.
2 shots is not necessarily strange. Some people will miss even at close range and especially if they are confused and never handled a firearm before. Or they can be confused by the firearm and point it at someone and “it just went off” and killed someone. Sort of like Alec Baldwin’s fiasco.
Dennis McInlyre says
“…I was “lying” about the AR-15. A complete distraction from the “real issues”.
So if you are really interested in a discussion of the “real issues” presented by Prof. Turley’s column, answer this Q: Do you believe the 2nd Amendment or abortion rights will be the bigger issue next year? Whichever position you take give reasons. Now that would be a REAL discussion. Otherwise, I will forced to conclude you are just another “Right-wing nut” who engages in obfuscation!”
This from the guy who comes in here day after bloody day, and posts some ridiculous off topic rant, and refuses to have a discussion about the topic presented.
Even in this post, he attempts to obfuscate that Turley’s topic was abortion. As if “which issue will be the biggest next year” is even worth discussion. Sure, lets discuss who’s propoganda machine is more successful, thats worth 3 words.
Talk about your all time projectionist…
Dennis McIntyre… Bribery Biden’s version of Baghdad Bob that he pays to come here and obfuscate and lie to remind us of who and what The Big Guy is.
Hey wait a minute.
1. Assisted suicide is the official government policy in Canada.
2. How different would this lady be treated if her shirt had an LGBTQ flag and she had orange hair?
As far as I am concerned this is murder. A person with dementia is difficult to care for, no doubt. I have seen personally how that is with both a mother and mother in law but in both cases they went to nursing homes and were cared for by skilled people and lived a life with some dignity until their deaths. This is not just for the rich. Medicaid is there and if people are unable to pay, Medicaid will support them in a nursing home. You have to use up their assets but medicaid will kick in so this lady had the option to put her mother in a nursing and relieve her of the burden of care.
One wonders why she did not appeal to medicaid. This lady’s actions suggest she was not much of a success in life and the house may have belonged to the mother. If the mother owned the house and medicaid was needed then the house might have had to be liquidated to pay for the mother’s nursing home care. The daughter would have been cast out of her domicile. Not unusual at all. A child moves in to a demented person’s home to “care for them” and then claims to own the home after their death. You see forged transfers of titles, ripped off banking assets and accounts, eviction fights when people are living in the demented person’s home in spite of no right to ownership, forged wills , ignored wills that gave the home to another relative or child. A realm treasure trove for attorneys.
Medicaid deals a great deal with people with assets who try to shed them in order to attain medicaid status and they can go back approx 5 years and claw back assets that were dispersed to family or maybe even stolen by family. Not an uncommon scenario. A real surprise to people who don’t know of this rule.
Lady was obviously not smart enough to turn off the camera.
This lady should should get the death penalty and then a special place in hell.
GEB you have engaged in a massive amount of speculation – the odds of your being correct are slim.
We do not know the extent of the dimensia of the woman. This is one of the problems with dimensia.
You claim to have experience with dimensia – aparently casting off relatives to homes.
I have had relatives in those homes you celebrate. Further my job requires me to visit and evaluate them regularly.
I will kill myself before going to any of them.
Turley and law enforcement make a big deal about the threat to lock the mother in her room.
You say that you know something about senior living centers – Dimensia patients are LOCKED IN!!!!!
You claim that the people caring for them are skilled – some are. The overwhelming majority are not.
They are unskilled and low skilled labor and not paid very well, they have no relationship with the people they are caring for, and no reason to care for them aside from poor pay.
There are some excellent fascilities that do a wonderful job – they are the exception not the rule, and even there most of the people are NOT all that well paid or experienced. And dimensia patients are still locked up.
Regardless, YOU are free to choose to live there. And if you are the guardian of someone with Dimensia YOU are free to send your charge there.
My experience has been the OPPOSITE of yours.
My father was reasonably well off. He absolutely wanted to die in his own home. He knew he was dying, he had vascular dimensia – and other complications. He made me his power of attorney, and my sister his medical power of attorney on the promise that we would not send him to a home. We tried to honor that promise. When it became necescary – we hired caregivers – which is far less expensive than a home. But medicare will not pay for that. We were able to vet the caregivers – so we KNEW who we were getting and we got people who really cared – not the typical low wage people that are most of the staff of most homes. The cargivers we hired were responsible for HIM – not 200 other people.
As his condition worsened his care went from 8 hours a day to 12, to 16 and shortly before his death to 24×7 skilled nursing.
We made mistakes – and the biggest mistake we made was not preparing ahead for his expanding care needs. As those needs grew we needed more and more people, and had less and less ability to vet them – eventually relying on agencies and hospice – and the quality of the people went down as the problems with my father went up
Ultimately we found that we were losing control of decisions regarding his care. Every nurse that was assigned had their own oppinions regarding his care. Most shared our views. But not all, and of the few that disagreed, a small number made trouble.
Ultimately a few bad apples brought the courts in. Purportedly we were killing him – by following his wishes, and providing him with medical care that some of the best elder care doctors in my county had prescribed.
We had even deliberately used the same medical practice that the county office of aging used in the expectation that would make the local office of aging happy. It did not. OofA got a doctor who had not cared for my father in over a year, on vacation in italy without any actual knowledge of his care, who had been overperscribing him all sorts of medications and who had himself nearly killed my father several times earlier through negiligent care to claim “we were killing him”.
The courts stepped in. My father was forcefully removed from his home. He fought physically all the way out. He was a big strong man and he was seriously injured removing him. He fought when he was put into a home – and he was again seriously injured. He was restrained and sedated.
In our care he had never been restrained, he had never been injured, he had never been involuntarily sedated.
In fact every alleged form of mistreatment that we had supposedly done occured immeidately with his removal from our care.
This was mitigated to a SMALL extent because we had brought in hospice – who was well aware of his condition, and provided him with appropriate care. So OofA removed him from hospice care within a week.
There was supposed to be a court hearing within 4 days of his removal. But the court suspended our Powers of attorney,
Replaced both his lifelong attorney, and the attorney we had hired with third parties, who immediately waived the 4 day requirement in an exparte hearing that we were not allowed into.
Before a new hearing could be scheduled, my father died – of pneumonia which he contracted at the home he was put in.
So please do not tell me how great government care of the elderly is.
Ultimately we could have sued the home and the dr. that claimed we were killing him for wrongful death – but you can not get very far when the person is going to die shortly anyway.
There is no means to sue the OofA or the courts.
I hope that neither I nor anyone else close to me gets dimensia. We were fortunate with my father that vascular dimensia progresses rapidly, and that MOSTLY he did not get difficult and angry – MOSYLY. There were some moments.
There was significantly more going on than I mentioned – including people who actually were taking financial advantage of him that were angry because we stopped that.
Nor is our case the only heinous case like this I am aware of.
In fact it is far more common for relatives or even strangers to abuse the system and get seniors – often perfectly competent ones, locked in homes to take over their finances. That is the “legal” and “safe” way to abuse the elderly. The most dangerous thing you can do is try to care for them yourself. We deliberately chose to be extremely careful financially. I shutdown everyone who was getting anything from my father – even those I though he might have agreed to if he was competent, and despite the fact that managing his care was time consuming and I was legally allowed to be compensated, I declined to take anything. I did not even pay the lawyer I had to hire to advise me, independent of his own lawyer, from his funds.
All that said in the real world – the piddling amount that relatives defraud their parents of while in their care is tiny compared to what the homes, and allegedly professional guardians take.
In one local case a woman was accused and convicted of taking 100K from her mother over 3 years that her mother was in her care.
The courts put the mother into a home and appointed a guardian. The costs were almost 400K/year.
This is the system you think is so great ?
Let me be clear – if you want to go to a home – a good one or a bad one – you should be free to do so.
And as bad as most senior living centers are, they are the only choice for many people with no family or with family that lives far away or that will not care for them.
Further dealing with incapacititated seniors is incredibly difficult. It is difficult for the poorly paid staff of most senior living centers, It is difficult for family.
There is a large amount of verious forms of abuse of the elederly – even in the fascilities you advocate for, but also by family members – because caring for incapacitated seniors is often really really really hard.
They are not all physically frail. At 84 it took 4 burley EMT’s to wrestle my father out of his home against his will, and both he and they got injured. I do not blame them. But it was not necescary.
They are like toddlers – only much worse. Their lives are getting worse every day and nearly all of them KNOW IT.
They tend to be angry, and difficult, and paranoid. Each day will be better for toddlers, over a couple of years they will get more and more autonomy and they know it. Life is good and they know it. Everything is the opposite for incapacitated elderly.
They are waiting to die.
The homes you tout are warehouses where we store the elderly until they die. Some are better than others.
But they are all places we go to die.
We do not have a choice about death – it comes to all of us.
But the majority of us do not want the last of our lives to be spent in a warehouse waiting for death.
We want to grow old and die in our homes cared for as needed by family.
In the last year of his life – all my fathers friends and relatives visited him – in his home. He and they KNEW it was likely the last time they would talk. He even made peace with some people he had strained relations with. He did so in his home. That was better for all.
Again everyone does not have the choices my father had – and even in his case they were ultimately taken from him.
Nor does everyone wish to make the choices my father did.
The case here makes it clear that it can be really difficult.
But the facts Prof. Turley provided are not sufficient to know and cast judgement.
In my fathers instance – had I not be under intense scrutiny – I would have provided him with the oportunity to CHOOSE to overdose on morphine.
And if I had it do do over, I probably would have allowed him to bleed out one of the several times that we took him to the hospital to stop the bleeding. He was increasingly unhappy as the impairment worsened. He KNEW what was happening to him. He was going to die soon, and he wanted to die – just not in a home without his family.
Deliver us from evil, we pray.
So it appears JT is saying saying words can have consequences. Funny he never says this abut DJT. JT, you have been a lawyer too long. It is one thing to use your law degree to insist justice is served, you however have lost your ability for compassion. Perhaps be just like Solomon and use the sword to slice the baby in half. No sweat off your brow is it, It’s just a baby that is someone elses problem. Saying words have consequenses. DJT is saying lots of words and his psycophantic followers are acting out those words. When will we hold DJT accountaboe for his words?
“Perhaps be just like Solomon and use the sword to slice the baby in half.”
Moron, just like you to get the simplist sh!t wrong. Solomon didn’t cut the baby in half, nincompoop, and never intended to.
If I thought you were sincere, I’d explain that perhaps you missed the part about the daughter handing her cognitively challenged mother a loaded weapon.
But clearly, you’re just stirring up crap like a spoiled, petulant teenager, so nevermind.
And you Bob are who, to just think that your simple-minded logic creates a cadre of psycophantic followers? Seems that you’re the evil that people pray about. Could it be that the holiday pressures are getting to ya. Be careful out there, it is a dangerous place these days.
Wow, the vitriol you all have. Totally missed the point, but hey, what do you expect from people that like DJT the fascist, rapist, con man.
The point is JT appears to think this woman should be held liable for her speech because the mother did what she told her to. DJT tells people to be mad as hell at the congress and keep him president, the mob does what he says but JT says this is free speech. And the difference is? But leave it to you low IQ people to completely miss the point and rant like silly little pre schoolers just like your dear orange leader.
Look in the mirror,get a life, grow up.
If anyone needs to get a life and grow up it is you.
While based on what little we know I strongly suspect JT is wrong. deminsia is just about the most horrible way to go.
Regardless, these two things are not the same.
The J6 protestors had free will. Pretty much by definition dimensia sufferers do not.
Separately, you have thoroughly misrepresented what DJT said.
Absolutely no one was told to overthrow government. To kill congressmen or run them out of town.
They were told to hold congresses feet to the fire and to let congress know they were angry – not at congress but at the fraud of an election, and that protestors should make clear that congress should not certify the election.
The only way to “keep trump president” was for congress to do as it constitutionally may do and refuse to certify, and then
vote to keep trump.
One of the problems with left wing nut claims about J6 is that the only viable way for Trump to remain president REQUIRED protestors to persuade congress to do TWO things – refuse to certify and THEN vote Trump as president.
Actual coups are extremely complex – they pretty much always require the military, and are nearly impossible in countries such as the US.
It is NOT sufficient to drive congress out of the capitol.
To seize power in the US you must have the support of congress, the supreme court and significant portions of the executive.
Why – because if you issue orders those are meaningless unless they are followed.
And they will only be followed in 2 cases:
Those in congress, the supreme court and the rest of the executive – including the military grudgingly accept your power as legitimate,
In 2020 that would have required congress to refuse to certify, and then Vote Trump in as president.
The alternative is that you have BROAD military support and you can make the courts, the congress and the rest of the executive do as you wish by FORCE
Are you honestly so stupid as to beleive that even if every J6 protestor had an AR15, and if they got congress to refuse to certify the election and then vote Trump as president at gun point, and similarly rounded up the supreme court, that after that, the military, the rest of the executive, and the american people would have listened to Trump ?
You have been watching too much left wing nut media.
What we all saw on 10/7 was an insurrection. J6 was not.
Wow, I am just amazed at the stupidity. Those arrested for crimes committed on Jan 6 at the capitol said they did it because trump told them to. Their words, not mine. Trump was counting on one of two things on Jan 6, Pence not bringing up the votes from several states that voted for Biden, and or, congress not certifying just those states that went for Biden, not trump. Thus the majority of electoral votes would have gone for trump. Congress did not need to “vote to keep trump”, them simply had to not allow enough Biden votes that trump had the majority. A simple process really, but it required congress to do something they have never done before. The majority in congress, including VP Pence, did not go along with the plan.
Listen to trump speak today, he is full on fascist. Promising to use the full power of the government to harass and imprison those that oppose him, or outright kill them.
So hold this lady responsible for her words, but not trump, double standard much?
And please, quite talking about fraud in the 2020 election. The only fraud found was a handful of republicans voting more than once. And of course there was the fake trump electors in the states that trump lost. The only significant fraud in 2020 was committed by trump and his minions. if you can’t see that…phew, our country is a mess.
Wow, live in an alternative reality much?
Yes, our country is a mess.
Inflation is hammering 86% of the country. People have resorted to using food banks as they cannot afford groceries for Thanksgiving dinner. When asked whether people who work hard were likely to get ahead in this country, only 36% said yes. For many the American dream of homeownership is no longer possible, see inflation. Our Southern border is wide open. Sanctuary cities resources are maxxed out with so many illegal immigrants. Even legal immigrants are pissed. Crime is up with soft on crime DAs, laws that cater to lawlessness, no cash bail, defund the police movements and strict gun control laws, all Democrat ran cities. Public schools are passing students who cannot read, write or do math but have been indoctrinated in CRT and DEI studies. Those students will go on to be great dependents on our social welfare system. Fortunately for them, home schooling has gone main stream and those students who can read, write and do math will go on to become productive members of society, make a good living and pay their taxes to support all those useless eaters.
Where do all these problems (and many more I have not the time to mention) originate from?
Woke leftist and the Biden admin policies.
Side note, what you are ranting and raving about in your TDS fever, is only a very small minority of people actually care about what you are ranting and raving about in your fevered dreams.
The rest of us normal people, well, we care about all the issues I mention in my November 24, 2023 at 3:16 PM comment.
Those are real issues, real people care about. Something the Biden admin and woke leftists do not care about. Hence his low polling numbers. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and now even Jews are all abandoning the Democrat party.
As they should.
LOL. You got a PhD in whataboutism from msnbc U? Go back to the kiddie table yourself and prepare for some more biden cock holstering, just desserts as they say.
When will we hold Trump accountable for words ?
All of us do that all the time.
We choose to listen to vote or not.
You are litterally arguing that people do not have free will, that they can not make choices in their own lives.
This particular case is problematic – because we do NOT know the extent to which the mother who shot herself did have actual free will.
If she did – this case is DOA. as heinous as the daughters words might be, the mother chose to put the gun to her head and pull the trigger.
J6 protestors made free choices.
They chose to come to DC on J6.
They chose NOT to bring firearms to the mall.
They chose to march to the capitol.
They chose to parade arround inside.
All choices that are legal, constitutional excercises of the first amendment.
Despite YOUR left wing narative – it is increasingly aparent that the actual violence at J6 was limited, and that the causes of that violence are far less clear than YOUR narative claimed.
The ENTIRE J6 protest remained peaceful UNTIL the CP first tear gassed themselves and then lobbed teargas into a peaceful crowd.
We got to hear from you idiots on the left – that teargassing a crowd that was NOT peaceful, that had been throwing stoned and trying to break down the WH fence and that had burned a church a few hundred feet away – that teargassing them was NOT acceptable.
Yet, in your world teargassing an actually peopleful crowd of trump supporters – that is OK ?
Video – now from 3 different sources – protestors, the CP security cameras and CP body cams and this week from MPD body cams all demonstrates that the protestors were peaceful until the CP teargassed themselves, retreated AND lobbed two teargass grenades into a peaceful crowd that had to that point stayed behind barriers.
Whether you like it or not the whol left wing J6 narative is crumbling.
At J6 there were 2200 CP officers, We now know there were 1500 MPD officiers.
Trump offered the CP 10,000 national guardsmen but that offer was rejected.
All this is now well documented from multiple sources.
So there were 3700 DOCUMENTED law enforcement people at the Capitol on J6.
Conversely during the FIRST George Floyd Riot in Mineapolis there were only 500 on duty police
Not only did CP actions initiate the violence at J6, but there were far more than enough officers to maintain order – if that is what they wanted to – without the NG. And many times that – had the offer of the NG been accepted.
I would further note the incredibly well documented offer o fthe NG to the CP – by Trump completely obliterates your insurection claim.
Why would Trump want 10,000 NG at the capitol on J6 if he was planning a coup ?
Trump wanted the NG at J6 – andhe wanted them NOT for the safety of congress, not for the safety of the CP, not to prevent a coup.
He wanted the NG because he expected Pelosi to try to start a riot and blame that on protestors and Trump.
Which is what happened.
John Say,
Well said.
The recently released videos of Jan 6th tells a very differing story vs the show trial that was the Jan 6th committee. Even when Liz Chaney tried to deflect with her highly edited Jan6 Insurrection! tweet, many people called her out for her cherry picking and how much the 40K hours of video clearly displayed something other than what she claimed.
When you have to have a network producer, a pre-written script to read from, edited videos, that is NOT transparency. That is a Soviet style show trial.
“DJT is saying lots of words and his psycophantic followers are acting out those words.”
Actually, I meant to post that my fellow Soviet Democrats and I acted on Joe Biden’s words for a good part of 2020 with our mostly peaceful rioting. You’ll notice that we get away with it; JT doesn’t call us vicious savages or claim it’s just that we’re suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.
A reminder on some other spoken words: President Biden called us a “group of courageous Americans” while encouraging us to continue rioting, pillaging, looting and burning (which we did for months, including the attempt to assault the White House to get at Trump and his family). Meanwhile VP Harris worked hard to bail those of us who were actually arrested, while telling Americans that we wouldn’t stop rioting and we shouldn’t be rioting.
So we acted on their words… and what are you going to do about it?
I’m just here to laugh at you culls and remind you that you don’t get the protection that we do.
And that’s the way we intend things to continue from this point onward.
Two Shots? As a juror, that needs some ‘splainin
Iowan2,
I had the same thought.