Below is my column in the New York Post on a reported plan of the Democratic National Committee and allied groups to try to block third-party candidates from the 2024 ballot. The contradiction is stunning as these groups raise money to “save democracy” by limiting democratic choice. In the meantime, the leading third-party candidate Robert Kennedy, Jr. will be reportedly announcing his running mate this week.
Here is the column:
The last time that the Chicago Democratic Convention was held in Chicago in 1968, the resulting riots led to one of the greatest Freudian slips in American politics. Mayor Richard Daley declared “the policeman isn’t there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder.”
The Democratic National Committee has now added its own gem: the Democratic Party is not here to preserve democracy, it is here to prevent democracy.
That’s because the DNC is seeking to block third party candidates from ballots — Robert Kennedy Jr., Cornell West, and Jill Stein. All three are liberal and are considered a threat to Joe Biden.
This effort will likely include any ticket put forward by the No Labels group, seeking a moderate alternative to the two parties.
The media does not appear at all alarmed or critical of the effort to limit democratic choice. The Washington Post stated clinically “Democrats are taking third-party threats seriously this time.” Taking it seriously appears to mean using legal means to keep them from the ballots.
It is true that the main political parties have challenged qualification signatures and paperwork in the past. However, the reports indicate a systemic effort geared toward reducing the choices for voters. What is striking is that this is coming from democratic groups and the DNC, which are raising money on the “save democracy” narrative.
The contradiction is spellbinding. On the same sites promising to oppose the third party candidates, the DNC and other groups push the narrative that only the Democrats are working to protect the right to vote.
The Post reports that Democrats have studied the Hillary Clinton campaign and vowed not to allow third party candidates to drain away millions of voters as they did in 2016. Of course, the comparison is particularly telling because in both 2016 and 2024, the DNC chose the least popular Democratic candidates. Polls showed that Clinton was the worst possible candidate for the party, but the Clintons had control over the DNC and state party organizations.
Of particular concern is the fact that Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan by only 67,000 votes. In just those states, Libertarian Gary Johnson and the Green Party’s Stein received more than half a million votes.
Rather than actually pick a candidate that most citizens want, the DNC wants to replay the 2016 strategy of forcing the choice between two evils in a Biden-Trump choice. That can only work reliably if there is no other choice for citizens tired of the duopoly and the political (and media) establishment. So Kennedy, Cornell, and Stein just have to go.
I am one of those misguided voters. Years ago, I wrote a column saying that I was tired of voting for the lesser of two evils — leaving every election as a moral hazard. I am prepared to vote for candidates from the two main parties in any given election, but I will only vote for the candidate who I believe is the best of candidates to be president. We are played as chumps by a political and media establishment in every election system. Over two decades ago, I pledged to vote for the best candidate, even if they are with a third party.
The DNC is reportedly to be joined in this effort by a well-financed array of groups including the liberal think tank Third Way (which has filed complaints with secretaries of states); American Bridge (a Democratic opposition operation), and Clear Choice (a super PAC composed of “allies of President Biden”).
While these groups work to limit the choice of voters, the effort continues in Florida, Georgia, Washington, and New York to keep Trump in court until the election, including a possible trial running up to or even through the election.
There is hope that this multi-front effort will be the winning ticket, particularly if the ultimate ticket denies voters any other choice.
The open discussion of these efforts in the media illustrates the contempt for voters, who need to be protected from their bad choices. I have previously compared the underlying assumptions to a type of electoral Big Gulp law. Before they were also struck down, these laws sought to take away the dietary choices of citizens because they were making the wrong choice in the view of experts.
Activists are now big gulping the election. Voters cannot be trusted with something as important as democracy.
President Biden has said “make no mistake: Democracy is on the ballot for all of us.” Of course, he could end this effort by denouncing further ballot cleansing (something he refused to do when Trump was removed by the Colorado and Maine ballots). It appears that the last thing that democracy needs is free democratic choice.
Jonathan Turley is an attorney and professor at George Washington University Law School.
“I am one of those misguided voters. Years ago, I wrote a column saying that I was tired of voting for the lesser of two evils — leaving every election as a moral hazard. I am prepared to vote for candidates from the two main parties in any given election, but I will only vote for the candidate who I believe is the best of candidates to be president. We are played as chumps by a political and media establishment in every election system. Over two decades ago, I pledged to vote for the best candidate, even if they are with a third party.”
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Like Swiss neutrality, it’s principled but ultimately self-defeating stance. In a contest between two sides one of which is bound to win, taking the third option necessarity means the side you least desire will get your support. As with Switzerland in WW2, by not opposing the Nazi regime, the land-locked nation gave tacit support to the gangsters by remainig neutral. As Elie Wiesel famously said, “We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.”
In the current context, no matter which mainstream party who you regard as “evil,” by supporting a third-party candidate (who is almost certain to lose), you make a direct and an indirect choice. And not necessarily just a a direct choice to do the right thing because even if principle motivates it, you cannot divorce yourself from the inescapable notion that you’ve really made an indirect one to support a person who directly opposes your values. The dilemma is not assauged by your clear conscience since by your indecision you have permitted evil, as you yourself define it, to prevail.
In his “Inferno,” Dante writes of those sad souls residing in the vestibule of Hell, who refuse to decide between good and evil and notes that a strange anomaly results from such indecision whereby these lost souls are wanted neither in Heaven nor Hell:
“Forthwith, I understood for certain this the tribe
Of those ill spirits both to God displeasing
And to his foes. These wretches, who ne’er lived,
Went on in nakedness, and sorely stung
By wasps and hornets, which bedew’d their cheeks
With blood, that mix’d with tears dropp’d to their feet,
And by disgustful worms was gather’d there.
~Canto III
Would someone tell me what NUTCHACHACHA thinks she is accomplishing through her incoherent and hysterical screeds on the Turley blog?
Exactly how much influence does the total wackjob, NUTCHACHACHA, think she is wielding on this site?
How many minds has the eminently irrational and adversarial NUTCHACHACHA changed in the Turley blog audience?
NUTCHACHACHA will be a good communist despot; she will simply order people to read her profound impertinence and believe her “idiocy of the proletariat” after she imposes NUTCHACHACHA’s martial law.
I would say NUTCHACHACHA had courage if she had a scintilla of a chance of successfully influencing and changing the mind of even one reader here.
Whatever is the point of NUTCHACHACHA, psychosis?
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“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.”
– Jane Fulton in “Suden Death,” Rita Mae Brown, 1983
RFK, Jr., live feed, announcing VP pick:
He’s articulately positioning himself against entrenched interests, such as the military-industrial complex, Wall Street crony capitalists, and big pharma. He’s going to face some headwinds, but I respect that.
Nicole Shanahan does not seem to me to be the best choice for that agenda. Perhaps this is unfair, but she appears to be a young, attractive woke progressive who married woke high tech money and then walked off with a lot of it. Hardly someone with the skill set or experience to be President, which is the one test a good VP should meet. Given the myriad options he had, this was a very disappointing choice.
Yeah, there is that. She’s not as woke as a lot of the wokesters I’ve seen in the last five years. I’d classify her more as “liberal” or “liberal-left” than woke. I think of woke as being legit deranged, having drunk the DEI and CRT kool-aid and talking only about fake issues. She’s talking about real problems with the environment and money-based corruption of institutions.
Scratch that, from what I heard she’s old-fashion liberal, not liberal-left. Then again she may be hiding a more extreme agenda, which would be understandable since (a) this is her first outing, and (b) the ticket is trying to peel away Republican votes as well as Democrat votes. But . . . if she’s indeed old-fashion liberal, that’s obviously not as bad as left-wing or woke.
She’s obviously highly intelligent – IQ probably triple that of Harris – but she lacks the charisma of a Margaret Thatcher or a Giorgia Meloni. Then again, she’s second on the ticket and RFK Jr. somewhat makes up for it.
Way to go Robert!
Kennedy – Shanahan 2024 🇺🇸
Now we have us a Three Horse Race. If Chris Christie is true to his word we’ll have a Four Horse Race.
Who know there’s still time for the DNC to wheel out the Big Cake and have Hillary pop out onto the Stage as well.
Lovin it 🥰
Christie only qualifies as 1/2 of a horse, and it is the back end.
Ah, yes.
The new and improved Camelot.
“We won’t get fooled again.”
Or will we?
There’s more than one way to “rig” an election, right, comrades?
“Mayor Richard Daley declared ‘the policeman isn’t there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder.’”
– Professor Turley
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“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
– William Casey, CIA Director
________________________________
November 22, 1963: Dallas Police Department Preserves Disorder
The Dallas Police Department participates in generating and suppressing facts and facilitating the assassination of John F. Kennedy by assets of multiple intelligence agencies of the communist American Deep Deep State.
In my rural county, Shasta County located in upper Northern California, Dr. Cornel West got a grand total of 16 votes in the Presidential primary. We have 80,000 voters in the county. I don’t think it’s ethical to kick off third party candidates from the ballot to “save” the voting prospects of the Democrats or the Republicans. So yes, I agree totally that this narrative the Democratic party has cooked up, vote for the Democrats to save Democracy” is pretty ludicrous. In fact, we need to save the nation from the Democrats. If these border policies of Biden’s continue we will be a nation of South American born non-citizens.
@Wolfperson (You’re so hairy hard to tell if you’re a boy or a girl… and I didn’t want to submit you to a genetics test…) 😛
The issue here is that Biden wants it to be Biden vs Orange Man only.
Any other option will pull votes away from Biden.
Think about it.
Trump wins RNC. Republicans for the most part will rally around Trump.
Those who didn’t vote for him last time will do so now because we’ve just lived thru 4 years of something much worse.
-G
Should knowing where the NASDAQ is located be a prerequisite for listing one’s company on the exchange? Should knowing that the NASDAQ and NYSE are subject to the same laws be a prerequisite for the presidency?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/25/politics/fact-check-trump-nyse-truth-social-story/index.html
Asking for a friend.
You’re a walking-talking joke.
If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?
You are an egregious sinner; you bear false witness, and you covet.
You embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody.
Oh, and your constantly carping and caterwauling bulldyke galfriend (Oops! Darren, may I say that?), who probably thinks painters, poets, singers, authors, songwriters, actors, screenwriters, and various and sundry other artists shouldn’t prosper or otherwise profit from their “vacuous” endeavors.
The Democratic mantra should be , “Don’t do as I do, do as I say!” This is why Democrats hate Trump. Trump treats Democrats, the way Democrats treat Republicans (and other Democrats that don’t tow the party line)!
Merriam-Webster
republic
noun
re·pub·lic ri-ˈpə-blik
1b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
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America is a restricted-vote republic of “citizens entitled to vote” by meeting qualifications.
Their “democracy” IS the communist “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
The communists endeavor mightily to preserve their “democracy” because their one man, one vote “democracy” directs the nation straight into their dictatorship, the “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
Their “democracy” is the unrestricted one-man, one-vote mass hysteria that promises largesse and yields to dictatorship, the “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
The American Founders extirpated dictatorship in the form of the dictatorship of the monarchy.
The American Founders gave you a restricted-vote republic to retain the solemnity and import of the vote in order to sustain and perpetuate the dominion of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The import of the vote has always been and remains to retain the rights, freedoms, privileges, and immunities revealed and provided by the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The restricted-vote republic of the American Founders must be restored through the application of strict voter qualifications.
Turnout was 11.6% in 1788 by design, and voter qualifications were Male, European, 21, 50 lbs. Sterling/50 acres, with further restrictions inherent in contemporary immigration law.
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“the people are nothing but a great beast…
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value.”
– Alexander Hamilton
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“The true reason (says Blackstone) of requiring any qualification, with regard to property in voters, is to exclude such persons, as are in so mean a situation, that they are esteemed to have no will of their own.”
“If it were probable that every man would give his vote freely, and without influence of any kind, then, upon the true theory and genuine principles of liberty, every member of the community, however poor, should have a vote…
But since that can hardly be expected, in persons of indigent fortunes, or such as are under the immediate dominion of others, all popular states have been obliged to establish certain qualifications, whereby, some who are suspected to have no will of their own, are excluded from voting; in order to set other individuals, whose wills may be supposed independent, more thoroughly upon a level with each other.”
– Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, 1775
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“[We gave you] a [restricted-vote] republic, if you can keep it.”
– Ben Franklin, 1787
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the people discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy–to be followed by a dictatorship.”
– Henning Webb Prentis Jr.
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“This is not a democracy. Everybody doesn’t get to do what they want to do. Everybody doesn’t get to do what they feel like doing.”
– Nick Saban, Head Football Coach, University of Alabama
The first part of your comment sounds like something Alex deTocqueville wrote on his second visit to America.
Yeah, no, that’s unsupported.
Would you provide a citation?
The closest in thesis, actually, is Henning Prentis.
The form I employed is most easily assimilable by the unwashed masses.
Present company excepted, of course.
Alex deTocqueville
I thought the same, but can’t find that attribution.
“POPULAR SELF-GOVERNMENT ULTIMATELY GENERATES DISINTEGRATING FORCES FROM WITHIN.”
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The Prentis Cycle
In a 1943 address to the University of Pennsylvania entitled The Cult of Competency (later reprinted as Industrial Management in a Republic) Prentis described what has become known as The Prentis Cycle in which, he asserted, “popular self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within”, as:
From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more.[5]
In a 1946 book, Prentis renamed one stage of the cycle and added two stages. The cycle, as revised, is:
From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to freedom; from freedom to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency ; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to fear; from fear to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more.[6]
– Henning Webb Prentis Jr.
After some research, it appears that a similar quote is frequently attributed to Tocqueville, but was not actually written by him. It is also sometimes attributed to a Scotsman: Alexander Fraser Tyler. But even this attribution may be unsourced.
Here is a discussion of the quote at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville:
“This is a variant expression of a sentiment which is often attributed to Tocqueville or Alexander Fraser Tytler, but the earliest known occurrence is as an unsourced attribution to Tytler in “This is the Hard Core of Freedom” by Elmer T. Peterson in The Daily Oklahoman (9 December 1951): “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”
It all reminds of a book “What They Didn’t Say: A Book of Misquotations”, edited by Elizabeth Knowles, which shows how many of the quotes attributed to famous men and women were never written or spoken by them.
Democracy is 100% Affection.
You have it or You don’t.
Love it or Leave it.
I am going to attempt to engage in “wokespeak” and may need help from our s@@tlib friends.
Remember it is only “democracy” if the correct result occurs and we must protect “Our Democracy(tm)” ar all costs.
We especially need to protect the bitter clingers from the own ignorance and backwardness.
Did I miss anything, s@@tlibs?
Screw “Our Democracy(tm)”
“Democracy ” the god that failed.
antonio
Did I miss anything?
You missed basket of deplorables, semi-fascists, ultra-MAGA extremists, and prospective re-education camp attendees. Just a few of the ways the Dems love to hate on the American people.
S. Meyer. IOW – nothing about the EC is defective. It is an ingenious system designed to give rough proportionality according to population while still preventing the big coastal money interests from dominating over the farming interests from which our food comes. All the attacks on it now have at their root the fact that the Dems have lost two presidential elections where they won the popular vote. That popular vote was concentrated in the big coastal money interests, so the EC performed exactly as it was intended by the Founding Fathers.
You two are too much today.
Sure it worked the way it was ‘supposed’ to but that’s it, It’s a Game (That works the way it’s supposed to).
Take away the ‘Game’ and use the Raw tally (the actual count) and you have the real opinion of the Electorate of the USA.
[Ok Guys I’m 10-10 for the Day , gotta go buy a Mega Lottery Ticket to win 1.2 Billion and Bail Trump out – see ya]
You are too stupid to know why the EC was created in that fashion and why it remains necessary. You don’t understand the meaning of democracy, and you don’t know why minorities need protection.
The Constitution and the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers are easy to read, but you are too stupid to read any parts of them.
Please note that some people lack information on some subjects. They are not stupid. Nor is a person stupid because he doesn’t know something. You are stupid because of the way you act and troll. You prove it on a daily basis and should be treated miserably based on how you act.
Oldman, as usual, you are correct, but we are dealing with an idiot who knows nothing of history and doesn’t understand how the Republic tried to protect minorities.
He believes in a democracy in which two foxes and one chicken decide, through a vote, what to have for dinner.
He is a fool who should be constantly insulted.
The Constitution and Bill of Rights “claim and exercise” dominion exclusively.
One need not read or lend credence to whatever previous documents you so cavalierly recommend because they do not bear.
Pl;ease define “minorities.”
Please cite the Constitution for a definition of “minorities.”
Please cite American fundamental law, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, for any “protection” of minorities.
George, a minority is the smaller…
If you study history, you will recognize that minorities founded this country. Do you remember the Puritans? All sorts of minorities settled here. Would you consider yourself the majority and should be lord-governor over all the rest? That will not happen, for you will also be found to have some minority status.
“Please cite American fundamental law, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, for any “protection” of minorities.”
The entire construction of our Constitutional Republic is based on protecting minorities. Read what the founders had to say about democracy and then consider two foxes and one chicken voting on what dinner should be.
Tulsi Gabbard tells Tucker:
“If you are a person who cares about freedom, who cares about our country, who cares about being able to make your own decisions as parents about what kind of education you want for your child, if you care about having a safe community for your child to live in, if you care about having a secure country with borders, [then] the Democratic Party is not the answer. It is not the answer. They are, in fact, the problem.”
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-encounter-tulsi-gabbard/
Dan Bongino says something very similar: The Republican Party may not be the answer to all our problems, but the Democratic Party is absolutely the cause of them.
The best way to look at our current state is to remove all references to political parties and without input from your favorite media outlets. Just look at the last 7 years. Remove the Covid outlier as it skews the data and compare 2017 to 2021. 2018 to 2022. 2019 to 2023. When was the economy better? When was the country more safe? When were we more free? When were our rights more secure? When was the planet in less conflict? No honest, objective analysis will lead anyone to conclude the period between 2017 to 2021 was worse than between 2021 to 2024.
Tulsi Gabbard for VP!
Olly – I watched that interview in full. She is such a highly intelligent woman with such integrity. She has not sold out. She is a rare specimen in this political landscape. What a contrast to the low-IQ, lighter-than-air, frivolousness women on the other side like AOC or Harris. What a better VP she would be than Harris. The contrast is just so incredibly striking. After mulling over that very informative interview, I reached the same conclusion as you: Tulsi would be an excellent VP pick for Trump. That’s what I’m now hoping will happen.
Amen brother!
What a better VP she would be than Harris. The contrast is just so incredibly striking.
Oldman, Harris not only has set the bar very low, she buried it. That being said, Tulsi would lay waste to any previous VP, as they’ve all primarily been “establishment” choices.
Here is what can be best said for her: she puts the interests of the country above party, state, sex, race, religion, class, or anything else. She also has the brains to evaluate what is best for the Republic. Finally, she has the courage to stand up to powerful people and groups. In one sense, she could be risky VP choice. Her first loyalty will always be to our limping Republic.
OLLY,
Well said!
Tulsi Gabbard for VP and 2028!
OLLY,
Well said!
I donated to Tulsi campaign in 2020 twice and would of a third time had she not dropped out.
Note, Tulsi stayed in longer than the so called top tier candidate that Harris claimed she was.
Tulsi Gabbard for VP AND 2028!
Hear hear!
She might also revitalize interest in the military as a career, which is ominously waning.
Excellent point.
Absolutely Edward.
UpstateFarmer said: “Tulsi Gabbard for VP”
I don’t agree with all of the positions I have seen attributed to her over time, but I could definitely endorse, and vote for, a Trump – Gabbard ticket this November. Now if it turns out to be a Trump – Haley ticket, I think I’ll be very glad to live in a state where my individual vote has no real chance of affecting the electoral college outcome…
I don’t agree with all of the positions I have seen attributed to her over time
Number 6, I began this thread with a link to a interview with Tulsi. I bring that up because hearing her positions directly and not by attribution, is important. Secondly, her position on core conservative principles make her an ideal candidate alongside Trump.
OLLY said: “a link to a interview with Tulsi”
I am largely mistrustful of video recordings (including interviews) as concrete, factual, evidence of pretty much anything. I stopped following Glenn Grteenwald when he stopped issuing written transcripts of his presentations. Videos can easily be rehearsed, faked, edited, and manipulated, in a nearly endless variety of ways, so as to present pure fiction. After all, isn’t that the very genesis of video: a medium designed from scratch to convince an audience that make-believe is credible (justified when intended for entertainment purposes)? And yes, before you bother to remind me, I am well aware that lies can easily be presented in printed material as well. The difference to me is that printed material is much more easlily parsed for analysis; it “holds still” while you do so; and the tools for examining writings for falsehoods have a much longer history, and as a result, are more highly developed than those for auditing claims of fact made in video form.
Yes, I agree with you on Tulsi.
Jim, do you recall if Trump has her on his possible VP list?
OLLY,
I have read that she has met with Trump and IS on the VP list.
To me, I think Trump’s VP pick is a major point. I am voting for Trump regardless, but having Tulsi as a VP and then the 2028 candidate is long range thinking and planing. She would make a great president.
Upstate, Trump is a strategic thinker, so Tulsi would fit with that plan.
Let’s play a little drinking game with Turley’s posts when he goes off on a rant based on nothing but inferences or “reports”, shall we? One shot of your choice of beverage every time you identify one of Turley’s little qualifiers that he bases his rants on. In today’s post, Turley used the word “reportedly” twice; he used the phrase “according to media reports” and “The Post Reports” once each. Based on these “reports”, Turley proceeds to trash Democrats as being undemocratic. Here’s what one of the “media reports” Turley is relying on to accuse Democrats of political skullduggery:
“We’re facing an unprecedented election and we know the GOP is already working to prop up third-party candidates like Robert Kennedy Jr. to make them stalking horses for Donald Trump,” Corridoni told NBC News. “With so much on the line, we’re not taking anything for granted. We’re going to make sure voters are educated and we’re going to make sure all candidates are playing by the rules.” So, what’s sinister about educating voters and making sure candidates play by the rules?
So, instead of putting the third-party candidate issue into proper context–i.e., that Republicans are propping up third party candidates to sway voters away from Biden, Turley turns tables and accuses Democrats of being undemocratic by educating voters about such third party candidates and making sure that there’s no hanky panky when it comes to the required number of signatures to get onto the ballot. It’s not possible to come up with a more un-democratic candidate than DJT, who cheated to get into office in the first place, who started an insurrection when he lost a free and fair election, who falsified campaign financing documents by misrepresenting hush money paid to a porn actress as legal fees, who got fake electors to falsify Electoral College documents and who stole classified documents and refused to return them. Turley ignores the planning for the violence of J6 and the plot to try to throw out the votes and throw the election to state legislatures by downplaying J6 as just a “riot”. But, Turley isn’t paid to be neutral, as today’s post proves. He knows the faithful don’t notice the qualifiers.
Gigi, the efforts of Democrats to keep 3rd parties off the ballot are not mere reports.
Actually read Turley’s article – or go out into the real world.
Democrats are Openly ADMITTING that 3rd parties are a threat and they seek to Block them from the ballot.
Turley specifically cites libertarains – but it is actually the
LACK of attacks on libertarian ballot access that features prominently in the Democrat strategy.
When libertarians have a gun to their heads – they tend to vote 60:40 in favor of Republicans.
The libertarain party has been organized and arround so long and gotten enough of the popular vote that it has secured 50 state ballot access. To my knowledge there is no effort by Democrats to remove libertarians from the Ballot – they hurt Trump – not Biden.
Just as Democrats can claim to have won in 2016 but for Jill Stein, Republicans can claim to have won in 2020 but for Jo Jo Johnson.
The libertartain vote which would mostly have gone to Trump was far larger than Biden’s margin of victory. Further libertarains have cost republcians several senate and occasional house seats.
Democrats are terrified of the Green Party as well as RFK Jr. Green party votes will almost 100% go to democrats if there is no Green candidate. RFK jr is drawing about 60:40 from democrats. If RFK Jr. is on the ballot – especially in swing states – While Trump drops below 50%, Biden drops to very near 40%. That is far below any margin that Democrats can make up through fraud., censorship, and control of the media and social media. All the conditions that allowed Biden to win in 2020 are GONE.
Biden has a track record and is running against a president with a track record – and Biden loses a head to head comparison badly.
Trump’s policies have super majority support. Democrats will have massive illegal ballot harvesting operations in 2024, but though election laws are still F#$K up and SOME of the garbage that Democrats foist on the nation in 2020 are still with us.
Without any doubt – Democrats will have a significant portion of many of the rigged and fraudulent advantages they had in 2020.
But they will not have 100% of the 2020 benefit. And they are facing a far higher hill to climb. In 2020 in a fair election Trump almost certainly would have won the electoral college in a landslide. But he would have fallen short on the popular vote. Even in a fair election in 2020 Trump would likely have been 2m votes behind Biden. That was Critical to the election rigging and fraud in 2020.
So Long as democrats win the popular vote nationwide – it will be much harder for a republican candidate to successfully legally challenge the election. The evidence of Fraud would have to be blatant and right out in the open.
But in 2024 Trump is currently winning the popular vote by about 8m votes. Democrats can not expand their fraud and election rigging efforts enough to make up that difference, and if they tried they would be caught. Democrats will likely still manage the 800,000-2M ballot harvested votes they managed in swing states in 2020 – but it will not be enough.
It currently appears the field of Swing states has expanded to 10 – and the 4 additional swing states WERE Blue states.
While it is unlikely that Trump is going to win in Virginia, New Mexico, Minesota, … those states are close enough that Democrats are going to have to run a real and desparate campaign to hold them. They can not afford to lose any of them. Trump must win 3 or maybe 4 of 10 swing states. He only needs 2 if one of them if one is Pennsylvania. Trump has dozens of routes to victory. Biden has only a few.
Gigi – so you are claiming that th eleft wing nut media – outlets such as the Washington Post, are FALSELY reporting what the DNC is OPENLY doing ?
Regardless, this is a DESPARATION move on the part of democrats.
There is no chance Biden can pull a rabbit out of the hat if Green and RFK jr. are on the ballot. All polls I have seen show that in a 3-5 way Race Trump gains 2pts on Biden.
One of the problems with election rigging and Fraud – there is only so much you can get away with.
The most ballot harvesting and election fraud that Democrats can get away with is somewhere between .5% and 1%.
Eliminating 0.25% of the fraudulent ballots in 2020 would have flipped the election.
Biden and Democrats can not pull off fraud on the scale necescary with current polls – and add RFK and West and the election is over.
Republicans are propping up third party candidates ? Really ?
Your evidence of that is ?
Republicans would like nothing more than to get rid of the libertarian Party.
Unlike Democrats – thought they might Wine that somehow libertarian votes are stolen from Republican candidates – they are doing nothing about it.
Regardless, if you actually want better candidates – the best way to get that is by actively encouraging 3rd party candidates.
Even when they do not have a change to win, they MOSTLY push the major party candidates towards the center. Which is what we want.
If the Green Party alters electoral calculations such that Democrats have to shift their policies and appeals to pick up 2% more centrist voters – that is a GOOD thing.
I would further note that Democrats in 2024 are suffering from the same problems that occur in the European countries that they fawn over.
Elections where a candidate must win a majority of the vote require parties to appeal to the center.
Elections where a candidate can win with a plurality of the vote – radically alter the electoral calculus.
In the US Conservatives have always outnumbered progressives – often by 2:1
There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that Trump will get 45% of the votes in this country NO MATTER WHAT. Biden will be lucky if he can be assured of 40% of the vote NO MATTER WHAT.
That leaves about 15% of the voters AT MOST as actually persuadable – Biden must win 2/3’s of those to win a razor thin victory.
So absolutely Democrats are terrified of 3rd parties.
John Say: do you have anything else to do in your life besides post on this blog? Or–is that your job? All you do every day is prop up the pro-Trump media lies–like pretending that Trump has some genuine early lead in the polls. In any poll where he is ahead by a point or two, it is always within the margin of error.
He is leading in Michigan by 8 per cent. Election over.
John Say,
Well said and excellent analysis.
You drink too much as it is. Your comments are rambling ravings of a lunatic stuck repeating the talking points MSNBC spews out daily.
She’s never had an original thought to share on this site. I’m sure the irony is lost on her.
Wendybar: how would you know? You don’t watch anything other than pro-Trump media.
Natasha, Wendybar notes your comments read like regurgitated MSNBC talking points which is accurate.
Can you prove she watches pro-Trump media?
Do your rules apply to all those times you use phrases like “according to Snopes” or “according to fact-checkers”?
If so, I better call AA now.
OMG can you come up with anything new or different to make your point? same old Gigi, over and over and over.
I do not think GiGi is real. She seems to be a Fish Wings-type sock puppet full of rage and indignation and very little to add to any conversation. If he/she/it were a real person, they would either be in a mental institution or a correctional facility. Somewhere without access to sharp objects. IMHO.
Floyd,
She is real.
Used to go by the name Natasha. When she got called out, fact checked, and caught in obvious lies, she changed her name to Gigi.
Her comments are usually the same hate filled, highly emotional rantings of a jaded angst filled teen, with a serious delusion of reality. She tried to apply her alternative reality to economics that I then slapped her down with actual facts and reality, citing sources to include Obama’s economic advisor, Larry Summers, saying Biden’s America Rescue Act would lead to inflation/Bidenflation. And it did.
Her, Fishstick, Sammy, Dennis and others stick to the same MSNBC talking points and ignore what is really going on.
Gogi, why in your opinion did slick decide to aid and abet the Hutus who slaughtered a million unarmed, noncombative, men, women and Tutsi children, when he lied about his knowledge of the ongoing holocaust in Rwanda even as he sat at his desk in The White House awaiting word, which he already had, about the bloodshed that erupted on his watch.
As a longtime libertarian, I’ve observed with great amusement that whoever loses the election blames third party/independent voters. No matter who loses, it’s my fault. Aaaah so much power! What a rush!
Never mind that MILLIONS of major party voters stay home every election. If their respective parties can’t motivate them to get up off the sofa, that’s not my problem.
The best thing we can do regarding elections is make voting as DIFFICULT as possible – without overtly introducing political bias.
Universally people make far better choices when they have “skin in the game” – this is one of the fundimental problems with the left, and socialism, and democracy. In those systems people making decisions for all of us are highly insulated from the consequences of those decisions. Even incredibly smart people make bad decisions when their are no consequences for those decisions.
Even fairly stupid people make good decisions – when they have skin in the game.
If I could schedule a 50 state huricane on election day so that voters had to brave 60mph winds to get to the polls and vote,
that would significantly improve the choices voters make – because only those voters prepared to fight through he storm would vote.
We do NOT want voting to be easier – the quality of decisions that people make is directly proportionate to the skin they have in the game.
The couch potato vote is the worst possible vote.
John Say I agree with that 100%. Anybody who says that voting is important should be willing to devote a little effort to it. And I would add my earlier point: the parties should motivate their voters to put in said effort. Voting shouldn’t be like ordering tacos or sushi via DoorDash.
I am opposed to limiting political parties with respect to campaigns – BEYOND barring truly illegal actions.
There is ample evidence the Biden campaign heavily participated the the censorship campaign in 2020.
That is immoral, unethical – but it is not ans should not be illegal.
You wish to encourage GOTV efforts. I oppose them, again they are immoral and unethical – let people work out how and whether they want to vote on their own. It is one thing to give speeches, hold campaign events public editorials. have debates.
It is another to knock on peoples doors, come into their homes, accost them in parking lots. The later is immoral and unethical – and it is NOT the way to get the wisest outcome from elections. But it is legal – and it should remain legal and therefore it will occur – even though it is not moral or ethical.
Conversely Government GOTV – or government sponsored GOTV is not only immoral and unethical but it is actually illegal and unconstitutional. Government can have ZERO role in an election beyond protecting ballots and counting them
It is not the business of government to encourage people to vote.
Frankly it is not the role of government to encourage people to do ANYTHING.
I don’t know where you got the notion that I want the government to do anything. I’m saying the PARTIES need to motivate and inspire their voters.
So who decides who has “skin in the game”?
The purpose of having a representative Democratic system requires that anyone who has an interest in who will represent their interests has a right to vote. Not just those who someone else deems worthy of being a voter. Should 18 year olds be able to vote? Yes. Because they have a stake in who would represent their views and needs.
Should 18 year olds be able to vote? Yes. Because they have a stake in who would represent their views and needs.
18 year olds?
Dems will have to explain them to me. Are they children that are required by law to be dependents on their parents employer health insurance?
Or adults, that rarely have acquired any ‘skin in the game’? Facts tell us, large percentage of those under 21 are driven mostly be emotions, and are easily led astray.
iowan2 said: “Facts tell us, large percentage of those under 21 are driven mostly be emotions, and are easily led astray.”
I’m ambivalant on whether 18 year olds should have the right to vote in absolute terms. However, equity and parity need to be introduced into the system. If an 18-year-old man is required to register for Selective Service, he should be entitled to vote. If he cannot vote, he should not be required to register. The same test should be applied to women (I’d be very interested in what woke women think about that idea 🙂 I personally think that Selective Service constitutes involuntary servitude, and should be ablished, but that is a different issue.
Equity would cover alcohol, and carry permits.
iowan2 said: “Equity would cover alcohol, and carry permits.”
That is absolutely correct. I advocate consistency there, as well. But my bottom line is the draft. Conscripting someone and sending him to fight and/or die on a foreign shore, in order to prosecute a war that may well have been started by politicians for their own exclusive benefit, while denying him any voice in selecting those politicians who have the power to send him there, is unjust and immoral.
Your tax return should decide it you have “skin in the game”.
John Say,
I have often thought that not only should you have to show i.d. but you should have to bring your last tax return and prove you actually paid at least some Federal taxes. Why should people living off of others have a say in how those others money is taken or spent?
Jim22,
“but you should have to bring your last tax return and prove you actually paid at least some Federal taxes. Why should people living off of others have a say in how those others money is taken or spent?”
That is a great observation.
Any “libertarian” that doesn’t vote for the person best suited to defeat the Democrat is a fool. People like you and Kat Timpf cloak yourselves in this false sense of intellectual superiority by eschewing the Republican as we all watch the Democrats take away freedom of speech, attack certain religious groups, go after politicians of other parties, threaten reporters and sites like X, mandate vaccines, etc etc.
A vote for anyone other than the Republican is a vote for Joe Biden.
It has nothing to do with “intellectual superiority”. It has to do with simple arithmetic. And bear in mind how the Electoral College works.
In 2016 Democrats blamed us for Hillary’s defeat. Well, Trump did win my state. But:
–If I had voted for Trump: Trump would have won my state.
–If I had voted for Hillary: Trump would have won my state.
–If I had stayed home: Trump would have won my state.
I’m seeing a pattern here.
It would be so wonderful if the number of idiots voting for third parties was limited, to just you! Unfortunately, moronity loves company as they say, and in some states, there are enough morons to tip the scales. Where is Nurse Ratched when you need her???
And I say again: there are more than enough major party voters in every state to completely swamp third party voters. Instead of whinging about third party voters, focus on yours.
What I’m hearing here is the same nonsense I’ve been hearing for decades: “You are such an idiot! You’re stupid and I hate you! Uh, why won’t you vote for me?”
“You are such an idiot! You’re stupid and I hate you! Uh, why won’t you vote for me?”
Isn’t that just the very best way to appeal to someone you want to vote for your party ?
If there were no third party voters at all – the advantage would go to the left.
Republicans overall benefit from 3rd party voting.
Near 100% of greens would vote democrat if they did not vote green.
Only about 60% of libertarains would vote republican.
In all 3 way and 5 way polls Trump GAINS between 1-2pts against Biden.
There are more people who want to vote against Biden – while not voting for Trump than people who want to vote against Trump but not for Biden.
I suspect what also terrifies the democrats right now is that the overwhelming majority fo the undecided vote – is near certain to vote AGAINST Biden. What they have not decided – is are they voting for Trump or for RFK or West or …
Either way Biden probably can not win if he picked up 100% of undecideds – Trump is over 50% in many polls.
He will not win if the undecideds vote 3rd party.
Amen! If someone pulls that voting for a third party stuff, that would be fine if they personally saw no real difference between the parties. BUT, if they see how bad the Democrats are, and still vote for a third party, then there is no excuse for that. Simple self-absorption. Passive-aggressive behavior, and being a prima donna pr!ck! IMHO. As Lord Acton said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to vote for third-party candidates.” Maybe it was H.H. Munro??? who said it. Somebody did.
Floyd – A major theme of the Arthurian legends is “man bears the seeds of his own destruction”.
In Julius Ceasear Cassiuis says “The fault dear Brutus in not in our stars, but in our selves”.
The decline of the left is inevitable whether I vote republican or libertarain.
A larger third party vote – in 2024 – and any other election, would benefit republicans – not harm them.
If the entirety of voters outside the republican and democratic parties failed to vote – nearly all elections would go to the republicans.
Conservatives outnumber progressive nearly 2:1 Frankly there are arguably more people who are nominally libertarian than progressive.
I have not decided how I am voting in 2024. Though I will guarantee that unless my state is both critical and close I will nto vote for Trump or Biden.
Nor am I terrified by the fact that if Biden wins – he will have 4 more years to make even more anti-democrat voters.
The war against the left is over. we are in the modern lefts death throws. And trying to decide how we move forward and how we prevent this from happening again/
HB – there are few people here that have more effectively defended against the left wing nut lawfare and other attacks on Trump or free speech or many other of our values.
At the same time I have not voted for Trump – not in the general election not in the primary.
I am not cloaking myself in any false sense of anything.
I do not eschew republicans.
I have and continue to criticize democratic stupidity such as efforts to destroy their enemies and censor their speech.
I am angry about those fascist efforts.
But I am not affraid of them.
The USSR is gone. Mao is Gone, Xi will be gone inevitably.
The woke left is already on the way out.
Frankly the more successful they are the stronger the backlash will be.
I do not think anyone here has argued more strongly that actual INSURRECTION will eventually be justified if this nonsense keeps up.
But I do not expect a “civil war” the left is far too week, far too desperate and failing far too fast.
The failure of the left is inevitable. East Germany was far more totalitarian than the Biden regime. And one day millions of people took to the streets and peacefully said “we do not recognize this government” and poof it was gone.
As important as you think electing Trump is. I think a strong libertarian voice and vote is even more important.
The overwhelming majority of libertaraisn do not vote libertarains – and I am OK with that.
But MY vote reflects 10 or 15 who chose to vote for either a republcian or a democrat to make their vote “count”
But my vote absolutely counts. Just like the Tea Party or out pro hamas lunatic college children – you want my vote – you have to earn it.
And not by merely being the lessor evil.
Further I would suggest you think about this carefuly. There is no moral ethical or political difference between attacking and threatening those who would vote for libertarains, than attacking those who vote for Nader or Stein or West or RFK.
You can not get the slight majority of libertarains who would vote republican if a gun was to their head, without driving all the greens and most other 3rd parties to the democrats.
Third parties give an illusion of choice. If you vote for a third party candidate, you are voting for your enemy. In other words, a Democrat who thinks Trump is Satan but can’t stomach “Joe Biden” and casts a vote for Jill Stein is actually voting for Trump, and vice versa. I worked on a political campaign years ago in Europe and I saw “our” candidate lose because of a popular third party candidate siphoning away votes. It was no great loss since “our” guy was kind of a nothingburger; however, the fact remains. All this talk about voting your conscience etc. is a fairy tale for children. It assuages the egos of people who cannot bring themselves to admit that four years of peace and prosperity, which is what we had with Trump, were better than a dumpster fire going over a cliff into a manure pile, which is what we have today.
But people have a right to throw their vote away.
FREE PETER NAVARRO!!
All this talk about voting your conscience etc. is a fairy tale for children.
In the present circumstances, that’s true. If we had reasonable candidates all around, and the situation were not dire, I’d say people have the luxury of not voting based on conscience. But when it’s clear that only Trump can hope to stop what you accurately describe as “a dumpster fire going over a cliff into a manure pile,” in my view we no longer have that luxury. It is either an oafish but effective leader and bodyguard, or the abyss. Anyone who would’ve voted for the oafish but effective leader and bodyguard, but who votes 3d party based on conscience, is at this juncture voting for the abyss.
OMFK – but we do ALWAYS have that luxury. I would further note that real profiles in courage are those who can act on their conscience, even when that will cost them, even when they will lose.
I do not think Judge McAfee in GA is a raving left wing lunatic – Like EnMoron or Kaplan or Merchan or Chutkan, or Howell.
But he had a choice to DQ Willis when far more than the necescary evidence was provided.
But that would have cost him re-election.
Conversely what he actually did still likely in effect stopped the GA prosecution while preserving his candidate.
Regardless McAfee had the chance to do the right thing and he did not.
Maybe that does not make him a bad person.
But it definitely does not make him good, or great.
those who can act on their conscience, even when that will cost them, even when they will lose
If it were just “they” who would lose, I would agree with you. But it is the American people who will lose – and lose big.
OMFK – If Biden is reelected the next 4 years will be a big mess.
That will assure that the backlash against democrats in 2028 is even larger.
The only thing the american people have to fear regarding the left is that somehow magically they will succeed.
If you beleive that is likely – you should vote for Biden.
I would further note that I am NOT a proponent of “democracy” I do not have a preference for the FORM of govenrment.
East Germany did not fall because people voted the communists out.
Good government requires that government fear the people. That is true regardless of the form of government or whether we vote at all.
is that somehow magically they will succeed.
They don’t need to resort to magic, when they are continuously refining their ability to rig the elections. That’s where one gets the saying, make Trump’s victor “too big to rig.” He will have to win by a large margin to overcome their cheating.
In my view (a) if that particular problem is not fixed, we are doomed, and (b) if they have four more years in power it will be too late.
OMFK – My analysis of current conditions is much like that of Franklin and the revolution.
From near the outset of the revoultion – Franklin was confident of victory – Why ?
Because the proximte cause of the war was Britians financial woes associated with the costs of the French and Indian wars.
GB could not afford what was necescary to subdie the colonies long term from 3000 miles away.
Victory was inevitable, the only question was how much the British would have to pay before they decided the cost was too high.
We are in the same place with Democrats right now.
While it is unlikely – Trump can lose in 2024. This fight is not over, and victory is assured. The only question is when.
The Soviet Union did not fall to outside invaders. It failed because of its own inability to deliver prosperity to its people.
The communists had FAR more control of the levers of power in the USSR in 1989 than the Democrats do in the US today.
Just like the communists failed – the left’s failure is inevitable.
The shift of minorities – particularly hispanics to the right was always inevitable. Trump has accelerated it, but it was coming no matter what.
The danger if Biden prevails in November is not a totalitarian state, it is the damage that is done before the backlash removes progressives from power.
Conversely though Trump is NOT the threat – the left is correct that the failure of the left could lead to fascism or some other form of totalitarianism. The longer and more desperately the left clings to power – the more people will conclude that extraordinary power is needed to remove them. Just as the Wiemar republic lead to Hitler.
Right now I do not see that , but the longer it takes to diempower the left and the more tenanciously they cling to power – the greater the odds of the people accepting a “strong man” and the More totalitratian that Strong man is likely to be.
That is true until it isn’t. The last third party candidate who came within striking distance of getting electoral votes was Perot. While that isn’t likely to happen this time, it must always be considered possible, and third party voters could simply leave the President office blank if options other than Trump and Biden were not on the ballot (that is effectively the same thing). And, third party options are usually not available down ballot, so people who effectively leave President blank usually do affect congressional contests.
“four years of peace and prosperity, which we had with Trump” is one big, fat LIE! Trump lied to the American people about the dangers of COVID–he admitted it to Bob Woodward–read his book “Rage”. He lied because he didn’t know how to handle this crisis, he threw out the pandemic playbook left by the Obama administration, and thought he could just lie his way out of it. Trump inherited a booming economy from Barak Obama that he proceeded to trash based on his massive ego and poor judgment. When he was voted out of office, unemployment was in double-digits, there were shortages of computer chips and consumer goods because of Trump’s trade war with China when he couldn’t bully it to do his bidding, all of which led to inflation; schools, restaurants and businesses were closed, and there was no leisure travel. America was setting new daily records for deaths and COVID infections. There were shortages of ventilators. There were so many deaths in big cities that hospitals had to employ refrigerated trucks to store bodies in until undertakers could come and get them. He alienated our EU and NATO allies. There were even shortages of tombstones. You call this “prosperity”?
Here’s what you call a “dumpster fire going over a cliff into a manure pile”: Biden got the Chips Act passed, which will domesticate computer chip production. He got passed the Infrastructure Act, which will create thousands of good-paying jobs. The Inflation Reduction Act will bring down the cost of prescription drugs, including insulin capped at $35/month. The cost of living is going down. Consumer confidence is going up. Real wages are outpacing inflation, which is going down thanks to Biden’s economic policies.
Trump openly praises RFK because he wants to siphon away voters from Biden. It’s deliberate.
Gigi: only a paid hack could write such a pack of crap. Aren’t you ashamed to sell your soul for a dollar? At least you do it at your desk instead of on your back.
Robert,
She is not a paid hack.
She is a true believer.
She bought all the lies Rachel Maddow said for three years.
She is still buying all the lies Maddow is saying now.
Only a true believer, a cultist, a zealot would buy into and believe all those lies.
MSM and the DNC needs useful idiots like them.
PROVE that anything I wrore is a lie. READ Bob Woodward’s book “Rage”–he tape recorded Trump admitting he LIED about the seriousness of COVID. Woodward compared Trump to FDR. After Pearl Harbor, FDR had radio “Fireside Chats”, in which he laid it all on the line–we were going to war, lots of our young men weren’t coming home and lots that do come home will be maimed for life, but we didn’t choose to get drug into the fight, and we were going to win. Trump lied about COVID–“you’ll be back in church for Easter”…”it’s just one person coming from China”…”15 cases will soon be 0 cases”… and so on. He kept lying about COVID being under control–it wasn’t. He thought that COVID made him look bad, so he thought he could justs lie his way out of the crisis instead of meeting the challenge head-on. He admitted throwing out the Obama pandemic playbook. There were shortages of PPE, ventilators, bodies were stored in refrigerated trucks, and there were new daily records for acute infections and deaths. He had NO plan to distribute vaccines, and didn’t even source the ultra-cold freezers needed to store the vaccines. America did much worse with COVID than other developed countries, all due to a lack of leadership. The closures of schools, restaurants and businesses, as well as shutting down of leisure travel are well-documented, as is the trade war Trump started with China and his stupid tariffs. Trump left a mess for Biden to clean up–which he has done. Trump continues to try to create messes–like ordering Republicans to reject the bipartisan Border Security Bill that would provide a legal avenue to curb migration, clear the backlog of cases and beef up security, all to create a fake issue to run on and to deny Biden another bipartisan victory.
Everything I wrote about Biden is true. Look it up. Calling me a liar doesn’t change the truth. Trump is an egomaniac and chronic liar. He is in love with power and attention. He doesn’t care about anyone or anything other than himself, and will say and do anything to get and keep power, including starting an insurrection based on the Big Lie. He praises RFK because he thinks that every vote for RFK is a vote Biden will lose.
Rachel Maddow is not as rude and hateful and redundant and lashing out as our girl Gigi is.
I used to think you guys were exaggerating about her, but now that I’ve been here for a couple years, she truly is a work of __________? what?
“The cost of living is going down.”
I don’t think reality agrees with you.
Cumulative inflation at some 30%. Energy prices some 50% higher.
Interest rates some *three* times higher than they were under Trump.
Average Americans are raiding their savings and retirement accounts, just to pay monthly expenses.
Average Americans maxing out credit cards, just to pay monthly expenses.
Want to make money in Biden’s failing economy? Open a pawn shop. They’re booming.
Sorry – But Trump’s rise to power came primarily as a result of appealing to disaffected minorities in his own party.
There is not a single GOP candidate in 2016 that Trump would have beaten in a head to head contest at the start with all other candidates out of the race. Trump leveraged a minority insurgency to grow his support as other candidates dropped out.
There is nothing wrong with this. Nor did it start with Trump.
The GOP is increasingly dominated by MAGA which is the ideological heirs to the Tea Party which started as a Republican minority insurgency that was willing to cost Republicans elections if they did not increase the share of TP candidates.
The same is true of Democrats – the progressive wing of the Democratic party is a small faction – probably less than 1/4 of all democrats who are mostly more moderate. But the progressives wield enormous power – because if they do not get what they want – they will go home and not vote or vote for Stein.
Like Turely, more than a decade ago I started voting for the best candidate – regardless of whether they could win.
My vote and those of others like me – thoguh not feeling as strongly has shifted the Republican Party more libertarian.
Sorry, but Trump’s “rise to power” came as a result of his campaign colluding with Russian hackers who spread lies about Hillary Clinton on social media in certain swing states, so as to sway the Electoral College vote. He still lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. Trump’s “rise to power” came about as a result of his and other white supremacists and racists’ resentment over the wild success of Barak Obama as President–both domestically and abroad. Obama turned around the diaster left by Bush into a thriving economy that Trump, relying on his ego, managed to trash with lies and sheer incompetence. Trump doesn’t have the intelligence or business savvy to “leverage” anything other than his fake media persona as a self-made boy-wonder billionaire–none of which is true, as recent revelations have proven. At the same time his attorneys are in court claiming he is impecunious and can’t borrow to cover the NY civil judgment, he’s bragging about having $500 million in liquid cash. These blatant inconsistencies (i.e.,–someone’s lying) don’t bother you MAGAites one bit.
Rachel Maddow did an excellent piece last night pointing out the true danger of Donald Trump. There have been previous dictator wannabes in America–Pelley and Fr. Coughlin are examples–but none of them had the backing of a major political party, and each of them went down in infamy, as Trump will some day–it’s only a matter of time–because he is utterly incompetent as a leader and totally amoral. His misdeeds are catching up to him–he’s always been viewed as a liar and cheater, and now, he’s being brought to justice. He exists to feed that narcissistic ego of his. See, in order to lead successfully, you have to have some goal or ambition other than personal aggrandizement and abuse of power to “get even” and seek attention and praise. You have to bring the diverse elements of America together–something a liar and narcissist cannot do. To cheat his way back into power, Trump will lie, pander to unborn-baby-saving Evangelicals saying that he’ll get all abortions banned–or he will support allowing abortions up to 16 weeks or some other timeframe–whatever the polls tell him he has to say to get that power his pathetic soul requires. The insurrection, falsification of campaign finance reports and refusal to return classified documents are proof positive of just how desperate he is for fame, attention and power. The government isn’t going to tell him he lost or that he can’t just take whatever documents he wants–and, he’s not giving them back, either, because no one tells DJT what to do–and, that’s why he’s got that criminal case in Florida. And, he lies about having the authority to steal classified documents and even whether they were classified. The real danger here is that he has somehow gotten a major political party to knuckle under to him. Republicans have chucked all of their traditional values and gone all in on the Big Lie, knowing it IS a lie–and, therein is the danger to democracy. It’s because it’s all Republicans have. They really don’t have any platform other than lying about Biden being the head of a “crime family”, or portraying America as some kind of out-of-control hell hole, despite the fact that we are enjoying a successful economy, rebuilding our infrastructure, bringing prescription drug prices under control and enjoying a 50 year low in unemployment. Our future looks bright unless DJT gets into power.
If, by some chance, he cheats his way into office again, America will, once again, flounder. He will do everything in his power to help Putin destroy Ukraine to pay him back for helping him cheat in 2016–including pulling all funding for Ukraine, pulling the US out of NATO, thus opening the door for WWIII because Putin WILL go after Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. He will try to repeal Obamacare–throwing millions of Americans off of health care–for no reason other than it was OBAMAcare and John McCain prevented him from repealing it sooner–so that ego has to triumph. He plans to build concentration camps for migrants–which we taxpayers will have to fund–to pay for food, medical care, etc., instead of allowing the bipartisan Border Security bill to get passed to provide power to more quickly deport migrants according to law, for more agents, judges and other resources. He will openly abuse migrants–because that’s what white supremacists want. He will, once again, give huge tax breaks to the wealthiest corporations and individuals, which will once again drive our national debt to record levels. And, as Republicans have promised in the past, he will try to drive down Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits to pay for the tax breaks.
Rachel Maddow?
The same person who lied to you for three years about Russian collusion, that was all proven to be a hoax?
You were lapping up her bowl of lies, then and nodding your head like a trained seal and you are still doing it now.
You are seriously brainwashed.
A REPUBLICAN Senate Intelligence Committee investigated and found that Russians DID help Trump’s campaign in 2016. The lie that this was a “hoax”, is, itself, the hoax. Here is a link: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default. Look it up.
Who helped Biden in 2020? The Communists inside the government. The Communists in the media. Which means we are dealing with a far more dangerous threat: Domestic enemies, sabotaging the country from within.
A repeated meme, without foundation. That committee based its opinion on the opinion of the anti-Trump intelligence community. The Mueller Report, which was far more exhaustive, and later in time than the Senate report, found that there was no evidence of collusion. But if you want to tell us EXACTLY what the collusion was, please take as much space as you like to detail the instances of Kremlin assistance. With bated breath, we await your reply.
Gigi,
Please get your tinfoil hat adjusted -this is just too bat schiff to address.
Maddow is a lunatic – almost as much of one as you.
She has not been right about pretty much anything pretty much ever.
Your STILL parroting the collusion delusion – which NEVER made logical sense.
There is absolutely nothing that the Russians could have given Trump to influence the eleciton in 2016 thaqt he could not have bought in the US at far less cost and risk.
Regardless, Democrats – including Hillary and Biden have far more actual ties to Russia, Russian oligarchs and Putin
If Ties to Russia or Putin are the determining factor for you vote – then Trump is the only Russia Clean choice.
John Say,
Well said and spot on.
This blind idea that Putin is going to try to retake all of those countries is absurd. Look at how long Russia has been bogged down in the Ukraine. Really think Russia has that kind of material and man power to do it? If they had, they would of taken the whole of the Ukraine in the first month of the war. Some people do not understand the economics, logistics and manpower involved to wage war. They just blindly lap up the fearmongering rhetoric and bob their heads like trained seals.
UpstateFarmer said: “This blind idea that Putin is going to try to retake all of those countries is absurd”
I do suspect that Putin would like to assimilate or make close allies of the European nations that comprised the Russian Empire prior to WWI. I also think that Putin is a pragmatist and knowledgeable about the history of empires, and will try very hard not to allow his reach to exceed his grasp, especially after the Russian army stumbled out of the gate in the Ukraine invasion. All subject to whatever internal political pressures he needs to accomodate to remain in power. I have no idea what those are, but it only makes sense that they exist. My guess is that if, at the end of his rule, Russia is poised to become the center of something resembling a Central and Eastern European EU, he will consider that a success.
Number 6,
Well said and good analysis.
After watching the failed US/West sanctions, Russia pivot to China, and the other BRICS, now BRICS+, the newly emerging mulit-polar world is a better success then retaking any territory. If this trend continues as I suspect it will, the US empire will continue to decline at an accelerated rate, even more so if de-dollarization continues. That along with the open boarder policies both in the US and the EU will cause internal pressure on resources and social strife. We are already seeing it.
Upstate, as you know, the economy determines the success of America, and that is greatly affected by government interference. The Biden administration has created bubbles all over the place, so however stormy the economy appears on paper, it is far worse because those bubbles will break or negatively affect those areas where the bubble exists. To correct those bubbles means money has to be removed, which can cause havoc. As we just saw with the 1.2 trillion dollar budget, the left is willing to destroy our economy with the help of many Republicans along with Republican leaders. Our politicians function based on self-interest.
Our physical strength outside of the economy has deteriorated as well. We have no consistent policy and are being run by globalists along with Eisenhower’s military-industrial complex. The world is on fire, and we are running out of water.
I have one minor correction of the use of the word Empire. That word has connotations that can create misleading ideas in a discussion. The British had an Empire. For the most part, America doesn’t have one.
Still spreading you alternative reality again and lies I see.
There is a difference between the two major parties. When John Anderson threatened to take away votes from Ronald Reagan, Republicans did not try to remove him from the ballot. When Ross Perot threatened to deny George HW Bush re-election, Republicans did not try to remove him from the ballot. Even in 2016, Gary Johnson probably took more votes from Trump than from Clinton, yet there was no legal action or threats to deny him a place on ballots. So, it is clear that Republicans are better democrats than the Democrats.
Edward Mahl,
Ah! Factual history.
Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
The Trump Cult have threatened anybody who would oppose their Dear Leader, who lost an election and tried to overthrow the government, is authoritarian, hate democracy, who would jail political opponents, but in Turley’s view, it’s the Democrats who are tying to limit choices.
Fishstick, show us the threats.
Meanwhile, it is the Democrats who have actually tried to keep Trump off the ballot, only to get slapped down by the SC, as they correctly did.
Now, in fear of a third candidate from taking votes from Biden, they are attempting a very un-democratic move by denying voters a third choice. Very banana republic of them.
Also, it is the Democrats who are seeking to jail their political opponents.
Are you aware of just far your head is up your own a**?
Fishstick, are you aware of how stupid you are with that stupid response? 🙂
But thank you for that response. You just demonstrated how those afflicted with TDS have their heads up their own posterior end.
How marvelous!
Fishy is demonstrating what cognitive dissonance looks like in action. How pathetic.
You misspelled Biden cult.
F W – “jailing political opponents.” No one in our advanced democracy would try to do that! Oh,wait.
Edward Mahl,
“No one in our advanced democracy would try to do that! Oh,wait.”
That is the kind of thing brainwashed cultists ignore.
They cannot handle facts and reality.
Fishy — Nobody tried to “overthrow the government.” Capiche?
The biggest threat to democracy is not third parties or DJT. Ironically it is the Democratic Party. The politically party that works day and night to turn the United States into a banana republic.
At this point, I would not vote Democrat for dog catcher. No offense to dog catchers.
Jonathon, with the ascent of Andrew Jackson into the leadership of the Jeffersonian Democratic Republican party, the party split with Jackson leading the portion of the party called Democrats. One of their terms of art to describe themselves was “The Democracy” which I used to joke that Speaker Pelosi and President Byden were old enough to remember themselves ( I am not much younger than them.) So, whenever I hear from them and ilk that someone or something is a threat to “our Democracy,” I translate that to “our party” and all makes sense.
Democrats have decided that “saving democracy” will be their mantra 24/7 until November 5th and dovetails nicely with their January 6 insurrection narrative. Just keep saying it enough times and many will believe it.
Professor Turley,
Both parties enact anti-democratic laws to limit ballot access to third party candidates. Signature requirements to get on a ballot are anti-democratic. Do you know which states require the highest percentage of signatures, based on the previous election’s tally, to get on the ballot as a third party candidate?
Indiana and Wyoming, which are hardly bastions of liberalism.
Additionally, both the GOP and Democrats use the Commission on Presidential Debates to arbitrarily select criteria for debate access. This keeps third party and independent candidates off the stage and out of conversation surrounding the debates.
Equating signature requirements, which all jurisdictions have, with targeted lawfare to kick candidates off the ballot . . . that’s a difficult argument to make.
Indiana and Wyoming require signatures from 2% of the electorate before a third party can get on a ballot. That is anti-democratic.
Just because “all jurisdictions” do it does not mean it is not anti-democratic.
And I didn’t “equate” this with “targeted lawfare,”
2% of the electorate
Are you sure about that? I looked it up and it seems like it’s 2% of the total number of votes in the previous election. Only a portion of the electorate actually votes. Unless by “electorate” you mean “people who voted in the last election.” But that would not be consistent with the dictionary definition of electorate, which is defined as people entitled to vote (e.g., Oxford).
If there were no signature requirements, ballots would be miles long.
Yes, but that would be more democratic.
Perhaps, you agree with Biden and the left that certain anti-democratic laws are put into effect to…. protect democracy?
If a system would be more democratic in theory, but would be completely unworkable in practice . . . is it really “more democratic” in reality? My answer: no.
Signatures are not the only means to access a ballot. Republican and democrat candidates rarely if ever have to get signatures to get onto the ballot.
Political parties that get sufficient votes in the general election are as a rule entitled to put the candidate of their choosing on the ballot.
While the rules are nut uniform state to state – that is a major factor in Libertarian 50 state ballot access.
In most state libertarians no longer have to get signatures to put a candidate on the ballot.
The libertarian convention will be in May 2024. so far 35 candidates are competing for the libertarian nomination.
The one that prevails will be on the ballot in 50 states.
The whole concept that established parties have DIFFERENT requirements for ballot access tips the scales in their favor and against third parties. You have successfully noted yet another anti-democratic law most states have passed to limit ballot access to third parties.
A minimum number of signatures is a good idea. It shows that there are a good number of people interested in your ideas.
If you didn’t have minimums, here’s what the Democrats would do. They would have 500 names on the ballot just to confuse the voters.
It’s a form of Election Interference.
Agreed. It’s a weak argument to say that, even though signature requirements are necessary, and are used everywhere as a consequence, Indiana and Wyoming’s percentage is the highest, therefore Republicans are just as anti-democratic as the people trying to cleanse ballots. That kind of weak argumentation, in my view, shows a certain kind of desperation.
Why is that a weak argument?
Signature requirements are not “necessary.” They are a choice. It is also not a binary choice (i.e., whether to have them or not), but one which is a sliding scale based on the number of signatures needed.
The two states, which have in place the most anti-democratic signature requirements are Indiana and Wyoming.
Also, ballot access is only one type of anti-democratic election law. As a Georgia voter, I experienced firsthand the types of GOP-supported laws which suppress the vote. These are clearly anti-democratic.
If you’re talking about voter ID, they only suppress one kind of vote: the fraudulent vote. The argument to the contrary – minority voters aren’t able to obtain an ID – is based on racist stereotypes that are false. Voter ID enhances electoral integrity and as a result it enhances democratic participation because people have more faith in the election system and will spend the time to participate. This was borne out by the data in your own state.
https://www.ajc.com/news/despite-voter-law-minority-turnout-georgia/3wOfD2SkXmTgRwbySd2ZiK/
Not just voter ID…
The GOP attempted to remove Sunday voting to limit the “souls to the polls” tradition of Black voters voting after church in Georgia. This attempt was unsuccessful.
The same law prohibited groups from handing out food and water to voters in line.
But the biggest issues are
– that the GOP-controlled legislature has control over the State Election Board; and
– the legislature can suspend county election officials.
The GOP controlled State Election Board has shown that it can suspend Fulton County’s election management with very little due process. The law only requires three or more violations of state election law or rules in the previous two election cycles without fixing those violations or broad “nonfeasance, malfeasance or gross negligence” in two elections over two years. There is no materiality qualifier on these violations and uses broad, ambiguous language. Sheer scale means larger, urban counties like Fulton (750K voters) are more likely to make a mistake and be vulnerable to state takeover than a rural county, like Beckley (7500 voters). That is an anti-democratic law.
“I experienced firsthand the types of GOP-supported laws which suppress the vote. These are clearly anti-democratic.”
And yet you and more Georgians and more minorities than ever voted in GA – refuting your own voter supression argument.
Separately – whule you are incorrect in your claims of voter supression and anti-democratic measures.
Even if you were correct – SO WHAT ?
We are not a democracy. While the critical values of this country are reflected in the bill of rights and even more so in the declaration of independence, For the most part the constitution is a blue print for government. I think it is a pretty good one.
Regardless it is what a supermajority chose and a supermajority can change as they wish whenever they wish.
I think that the representative republic that is our form of government is superior to anything else that has been tried – but I am skeptically open to testing alternatives.
Conversely democracy – even representative democracy is among the worst form of government there is.
The requirements for good government were stated simply by Adam Smith 250 years ago.
“Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism, but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice; all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things. All governments which thwart this natural course, which force things into another channel, or which endeavour to arrest the progress of society at a particular point, are unnatural, and to support themselves are obliged to be oppressive and tyrannical.”
Smith does not mention democracy or constitutions or monarchies. Because the only thing relevant about the form of govenrment is the end result.
Or as Reagan said 50 years ago
“You and I are told increasingly we have to choose between a left or right. Well I’d like to suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There’s only an up or down – [up] man’s old-aged dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order, or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. And regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.”
The goal
“the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order”
Neither Smith nor Reagan mention the form of government.
But the purpose of govenrment is the same – to do the LITTLE that only government must to assure the maximum of individual liberty. The purpose of “law and order” is to maximize liberty – because totally unfettered liberty is anarchy and ultimately that is no liberty at all.
I do not care is NO ONE has access to the ballot – so long as our govenrment delivers “the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order”.
The entire purpose of elections is to avoid violent revoulation as the means by which we remove a government that is destructive of our liberty.
Regardless the purpose of elections is not to empower govenrment – but to restrain it – and as we have seen over the past 250 years, Our constitution – whle supperior to most alternatives – still FAILS over the long rung to protect indidivual liberty.
Keep that up long enough and we will remove that government – if not at the ballot box, then by other means.