As an academic and a legal commentator, I have sometimes disagreed with the United States Supreme Court, but I often stress the good-faith differences in how certain rights or protections are interpreted. One case, however, has long stood out for me as wildly off-base and wrongly decided: Kelo v. New London. The case allowed the government to seize property from one private party and then give it to another private party. There is now a petition before the Supreme Court that would allow it to reconsider this pernicious precedent. The Court should grant review in Bowers v. Oneida County Industrial Development Agency precisely for that purpose.
Many of us expressed outrage at the actions of the city leaders of New London, Connecticut, when they used eminent domain to seize the property of citizens against their will to give it to the Pfizer corporation.
This anger grew with the inexplicable decision of the Supreme Court in Kelo v. City of New London to uphold the abusive action. After all the pain that the city caused its own residents and the $80 million it spent to buy and bulldoze the property, it came to nothing. Pfizer later announced that it was closing the facility — leaving the city worse off than when it began.
I will not repeat my fundamental disagreement with the interpretation of the eminent domain power. For my prior testimony on the Kelo decision, click here.
The Bowers case involves New York developer Bryan Bowers who challenged the decision of a county redevelopment agency to condemn his property and then give it to another developer to use as a private parking lot.
Most states prohibit this abusive practice but not New York.
Justice Chase (not long after the Bill of Rights was written) rejected this type of abuse:
“An act of the Legislature (for I cannot call it a law) contrary to the great first principles of the social compact, cannot be considered a rightful exercise of legislative authority … . A few instances will suffice to explain what I mean… . [A] law that takes property from A. and gives it to B: It is against all reason and justice, for a people to entrust a Legislature with such powers; and, therefore, it cannot be presumed that they have done it.” Calder v. Bull, 3 Dall. 386, 388 (1798) (emphasis deleted).
Much has changed on the Court since 2005. It is possible that the new majority could finally correct the mistake made in Kelo. While most states have barred this abusive practice, states like New York still leave property owners at the mercy of local officials who use eminent domain to transfer property between citizens.
For Susette Kelo, she had little chance to fight a major pharmaceutical company for her home. The Supreme Court just looked on passively after local officials seized her home because she was not nearly as valuable to them as Pfizer. This abusive use of eminent domain is not just an invitation for corrupt dealings but a denial of the core protections of individual citizens under our Constitution.
It is time for Kelo to be set aside. The Court has that opportunity with Bowers.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. He is the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
I’m a big Trump fan, but his being in favor of the Kelo decision has always been a bone of contention for me.
As a developer, he would welcome a chance like this one I’m sure, but as a conservative president, he should come out against any improper takings.
Male no mistake. Trump is neither a conservative nor a Republican. He is a populist and wholly transactional.
Mr. Turley, did you agree with National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, 567 U.S. 519 (2012)?
In NJ we had a similar case. A several block area of very nice, well kept, middle class bungalows across the street from the ocean were seized by the city to be sold to a developer. The developer intended to build a luxury high rise of $1million condos. Some home owners capitulated, but others fought to the bitter end. After a 5 year battle, with the city losing on appeal, they gave up. But the neighborhood had been ruined with 20 properties abandoned and decrepit.
This is ridiculous and everyone knows it. You don’t get to steal private land to hand it over to a private entity with Eminent Domain.
This is just another of the new living breathing non constitution lies the powers that be push for 24/7/365
Yup, the “living document” theory of the Constitution is just another way of saying it means whatever we want it to mean at any given time. It’s an illegal power grab by those entrusted with the law.
Pfizer and it’s twins just ran the whole world into the ground with their lies on covid, along with the MSM, the AMA, the biden admin, every demoncrat state power, the military, many employers, and many others.
Black Rock and the Fink ceo control a bunch of mineral deposits in Ukraine now, as we have heard, it’s all about the 14 trillion in earth stores, unfortunately most of it is in the east so the goonberry idiots of the nsc along with their mentally deranged cold warriors blew it after their 2014 overthrow and subsequent attack on the eastern half of Ukraine, the Russian half.
Why would you bomb the daylights out of mineral supplies area ? Oh, you arrogantly thought you could ethnically cleanse or force the Russian language from the region and get cooperation, bringing democracy, by BOMBING.
Yeah, we can throw the pfizer execs in prison with liz and blinken and stroke and mccabe and comey and the rest of them.
For Professor Turley: Is this the case that will enable SCOTUS to declare the RLS and DHCR in NYS unconstitutional per se pursuant to the “takings clause” of the 5th Amendment and the “equal protections” clause of the 14th Amendment? The de facto taking by the RSL and its administration by DHCR have no actual basis in a public purpose or a public use.
. . . nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
-United States Constitution (5th Amendment)
The word “use” is the key. As I mentioned to Neil below, while raising tax revenue may be considered a public purpose, it is not a use. Land use has a specific meaning – the actual way the land is used, not the purpose for that use. The Supreme Court in Kelo substituted the word “purpose” for “use” — which is contrary to the text of the Constitution. The Court erred, rather egregiously, and I agree with the Professor that it should grant cert in this case to correct its error.
Lin – I see you made essentially the same point below, with reference to the MidKiff case out of Hawaii. My own view is that use means use, not purpose (see above). I don’t care who is transferring to who in terms of relative wealth, the Constitution says what it says, and it has to be for a public use.
“Just compensation” aye?
Here’s some just compensation for ya’s. In any of the ten regional corridors that the DOEnergy has declared as candidates for high power line corridors built to feed the AI Data Centers, while not supplying any energy to residential areas, it is common practice for the energy company, not to use local tax assessments for your property value, no they hire contractors whom they pay to ascertain what is a fair value for their employers to pay for your property. No conflict there. There’s just compensation for you.
And whichever one, that comes to take your property or land to construct high power lines, (owned by profit strapped companies like Amazon Web Services, Microsoft and Google, etc.), using tax payer subsidies for all phases of acquisition mind you, are in many cases located many states away from the people who are having their land confiscated (let’s call it what it is), in the states where the corridors traverse through. And (here’s some equity for you), everyone gets to pay higher property taxes and energy taxes to provide that government subsidy to them, regardless of where you live. So your taxes and energy prices are paying for power lines to provide energy for some Data Center owned by billionaires, and located many states away.
Meantime, everyone gets on the bandwagon to feed in the government trough, from the local village council who makes out in higher taxes, to the construction performed by some energy conglomerate, all payed for in part or in whole by taxpayers, including the confiscation of your property. Also paid for with tax dollars.
And the main reason we don’t have sufficient energy to compete in AI with the world is… Biden’s war on carbon; closing energy plants that use natural gas or coal, while simultaneously penning Data Centers as a National Security priority and regulating carbon based energy out of business. The Data Centers consum here-to-fore untold amounts of energy, on top of this administration doing little to nothing to update and improve the existing energy infrastructure now obsolete for the modern energy demand. And of course, mostly ignoring the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s recommendations for modernizing the power grids. That’ll work!
https://www.energy.gov/gdo/national-interest-electric-transmission-corridor-designation-process
https://www.pecva.org/work/data-center-video/
It is so much worse than that.
We need the power lines to move power around. Why? because we want carbon free power due to climate change. But…why must the carbon fere power be transported hundreds of miles from where it is generated? Because we want to use wind and solar, not nuclear. That is the ONLY reason.
Nothing prevents these private companies from building a nuclear power plant adjacent to their data center, or the data center next to the nuclear power plant. Oh, except one thing – various states that want to host these data centers don’t like nuclear power. is it too much to suggest the data centers be moved from these states, or that they change their minds on nuclear power? They can’t be bothered. They want all the benefits, and none of the costs.
Moving energy thousands of miles also has an environmental cost. It is highly inefficient. Stop doing it.
The fight between a distributed and a centralized grid is not new and not specific to green power.
You can have a distributed grid with any form of power generation – though it is more amenable to solar, wind, Gas Turbines, and less to nuclear and coal.
A distributed grid is more expensive, to construct, and more difficult to manage, but less vulnerable to all sorts of large scale disruptions.
Today massive multi gigawatt coal plants are the most efficient way to generate power. But they must operate 24x7x365 frequent shutdowns severaly comporomises their efficiency. Conversely NG Gas Turbines can be made at any scale – right down to individual homes can be poweed up and down easily as needed and require less grid and less centralized grid. But the raw cost to generate power is significantly higher.
Today we have a mix – because it is more cost effective at the end use to have huge coal plants do the heavily lifting and smally Gas Trubines provide for the ebb and flow of demand.
I focused on Coal and NG – there are many other choices – each of which fits into our supply and distribution system in its own unique way.
For the most part – a bit of everything with a decentralized grid is likely the best overall.
But this has nothing to do with Green issues or even CO2.
NG vastly reduces CO2 emissions – but it is not zero CO2 – but significant increases in NG power generation are responsible for US CO2 emissions drops.
Of course all this presumes that you think that power plants producing fertilizer for plants is a bad thing.
Such an ambiguous word “Eminent” becomes when applied to private property. Webster’s defines it as an adjective, prominent-conspicuous-projecting and compares it to imminent which may be more appropriate when applied to taking of property. The hallucinations of grandiose plans, by unqualified individuals and groups have left litter scattered across America. What is governments’ responsibility to citizens {?}: taxi service (buses, subways, [water] etc), railways (Amtrac), Airports (why should government be involved with air travel), electricity production, and oh so much more that government should not be involved in. Government has grown to an unmanageable level that I think even Casey Jones could save the train wreck we are headed for without drastic measures. The current ship of fools in Washington still insist that the plebes just sit down and such up, just look at the CR they just rejected, they even tried to reward non-participants with Social Security benefits.
General Welfare – all, or the whole, well proceed – consists of security and basic infrastructure including police, fire, roads, water, electricity, post office, internet, search engine, and other commodities and services that all people require and are not readily provided by the private sector or States. Social Security and Medicare serve only 18.7% of the population which is nowhere near general, or all or the whole; retirement and healthcare plans are readily available in the insurance industry of the private sector.
General Welfare, in Article 1, Section 8, is not individual Welfare, specific Welfare, or particular Welfare, or charity.
Congress has the power to tax for ONLY debt, defense, and general Welfare.
You asked why gov’t should be involved in air travel. I can answer that one as a retired airline pilot. It brought order out of fatal chaos under the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. The early “barnstorming” days of aviation saw frequent fatal crashes by badly or untrained “pilots” with war surplus aircraft. Here’s a link to the history.
https://www.centennialofflight.net/essay/Government_Role/FAA_History/POL8.htm
Regulation, certainly; of the industry, by the industry, for the industry.
Privatization is the answer.
Micheal – the early days of anything are chaotic and have higher fatality rates.
NO the Government did not make air travel safer. nor does it today.
The FACT is that clean and safe ANYTHING always is directly caused by rising standard of living.
Somebody inhaled too much leaded gasoline.
Battle of the billionaires over eminent domain
Jonathan: I hope my initial effort today referring you back to SNL’s last show with Chris Rock will enable you to get you back on track with the issues that matter. Those issues are not speculative columns on Kelo. The issues you should properly focus on are the legal issues concerning the threat to our democracy that DJT poses after he lied his way to the presidency again.
DJT’s cult of MAGA followers are going to attempt to get you off course by replying to my post yesterday reminding you of how Judge Merchan continued steering the course of holding DJT criminally responsible. They will be responding to tell you that that Fani Willis has now been removed by the state of Georgia from prosecuting DJT to hold him criminally responsible in Georgia as he is being held accountable in New York.
You are also going to get attempts to distract you with DJT’s followers telling you of breaking news stories that Biden’s White House insiders already knew during the Covid-19 epidemic at the beginning of his presidency that he was mentally non compos due to dementia. That anonymous Biden White House staff have hidden his senility and inability to govern for the last four years. And they are now worried if they can even keep him out of public view while they act as his surrogates to complete his presidency.
Jonathan, do not be lured by these trolling distractions from DJT cult members. Do not go back to being a mouthpiece for Fox News. You need to stay the course and comment on the issues that are DJT’s threat to our democracy.
Dennis McInliar will wake up to a steaming turd in his bowl of Fruit Loops EVERY DAY for the next four years!
Something I have learned here on the good professor’s blog is if Dennis claims something, wait a few weeks or months and whatever he claimed will be proven wrong. If he says to pay attention to something, you can probably dismiss it as a nothingburger. If he says to ignore something it likely something that should have your attention. He also seems to have a odd fascination with celebrities jumping up and down for joy when Taylor Swift or Harrison Ford endorsed Harris. But then polls showed those celebrities didnt move the needle at all. For that matter, some think they were more a detriment to the Harris campaign as all us average American’s are sick and tired of gated community elites telling us as if they are our better because their house is bigger than ours, how we should vote. They dont care if we are paying $7 for a pound of butter. Joe Scarbourgh found that out the hard way when his own wife corrected him on air. SNL has not been funny since the early 90s. Know who is funny? Bill Maher. I may agree with everything he says or his politics, but he has a great and very funny way of pointing out all kinds of things.
What are you babbling about? We all knew Biden was mentally incompetent during his election campaign from the basement in 2020. Anyone with any degree of common sense knew that. I am expecting there to be tell all books about the Biden admin and reading that Harris maybe getting book deals, I would not be surprised if she was one of them. Whatever these “insiders” are now coming forth and telling us, most of us are just going to shrug and say, “Yeah, no kidding!” So the real question is who was running the country for the past four years, can they be held accountable for all the disasters they gave us? And if you have not noticed, electing a mentally incompetent, man with dementia was a threat to not only the nation but the world. That should be THE scandal of the century!
(With all due respect, I’m beginning to believe that Dennis, Gigi, and George are the 21st century’s revitalization of the story about Patti Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army (derivative of symbionic/symbiosis). Or perhaps they have reincarnated the Oscar-winning “Three Faces of Eve.” They certainly evoke a circular holographic image showing all three as one.
(I surmise that we are all too young to know or remember either of my above references, but certainly I am familiar with the two respective titles.)
p.s. Dennis, if Chris Rock said what I just said, would it be humor?
Dennis the DEM cult member. DJT’s threats to DEMS democracy!
So you refer us all to an SNL skit that I doubt Trump has any problems with. It only makes Trump look bad to people like you who beleive stupid things.
After that you follow with a list of all the revent failures of the left.
Please Dennis,
keep posting all the different ways you have failed.
Biden has been senile since before 2020 – Check. Yes there is even more evidence today – but most of us grasped that 4 years ago.
The Willis case was corrupt from the start – check. Again more evidence today, but this case was obvious corrupt lawfare from the start.
Looks like somone forgot their daily TDS meds again.
“…NOR SHALL PRIVATE PROPERTY BE TAKEN FOR PUBLIC USE…”
The 5th Amendment is clear and unequivocal in expressing its purpose for the “taking” of private property, which is to make it public.
The 5th Amendment draws a clear distinction between private and public property.
The Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment was initially qualified by the Framers by its requirement for just compensation, constituting the completion of qualification and allowing no further qualification, and is, therefore, absolute.
Private property may not be taken for private use.
Article 1, Section 8, provides Congress no power to participate in, interfere with, collaborate with, or regulate free enterprises, free industries, or free markets.
There exists a Separation of Free Markets and State.
The Commerce Clause was written to preclude bias and favor between “…foreign Nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Tribes;…”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5th Amendment
No person shall be…deprived of…property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The singular American failure is the judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court.
The Framers wrote the Constitution in brief, succinct, and clear sentences.
That is all that is necessary and proper.
Words mean things.
“Nor shall property be taken for public use, without just compensation,” in other words, property shall be taken for public and no other use, after just compensation.
Courts frequently circumvent the “manifest tenor” of the Constitution to impose their partial intent corruptly.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“…courts…must…declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void.”
“…men…do…what their powers do not authorize, [and] what they forbid.”
“[A] limited Constitution … can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing … To deny this would be to affirm … that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.”
– Alexander Hamilton
Lots of opportunity for her in the counseling field…
‘Fat positivity’ expert hired by San Francisco Dept. of Health to consult on ‘weight stigma’
–By Yael Halon, Fox News, Published Dec. 18, 2024, 6:43 a.m. ET
Excerpt:
In July, Tovar posted that she conducted a weight bias training for unidentified government workers, sharing 4 tips she taught to help decrease “stigma around food and bodies at work.”
“1. Talk less or not at all about how you and others eat at work,” she wrote.”
“2. Talk less or not at all about you or others’ bodies at work.”
“3. Talk less or not at all about exercise at work.”
“4. Don’t presume that food, weight, body size or exercise are safe or comfortable topics to discuss at work for everyone.”
“Tovar could not be reached by Fox News Digital for comment.”
Tom–do you really want to talk about fat? Look at your hero.
It was GIGI herself who previously said in one of her comments that she discussed her weight with her doctor. Really sensitive about this and repeatedly talks about fat, “pig” and “slop.” Projection, say thy name!
@Gigi: Tom–do you really want to talk about fat? Look at your hero.
We would prefer that you explain your hero currently in the White House: the pathological lying, daughter-raping, senile bribe taking, bag of stumbling, mumbling bones called President Biden.
The one who couldn’t walk from the tee to the first hole of a golf course with President Trump, even with somebody carrying his clubs for him.
You REALLY CAN’T DO THAT, Gigi?
Old Airborne Dog
Who is Tom? And who is supposed to be Tom’s hero, dummkopf?
Pay attention and keep up.
Trump is 6-3 and 236lbs – that is EXACTLY the same as Mohamed Ali and almost exactly the same as Evander Holyfield when he beat Tyson – who is 5-10 and 220lbs.
I doubt Trump is in the same shape as Holyfield of Ali. But I bet he is in far better shape than you.
My point is that BMI alone does NOT tell you much about someones health – it does not even tell you whether they are fat or not.
Or are you going to call Holyfield and Ali Fat ?
Floyd: Trump still tried to bully Raffensberger to “find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have”. We all heard the tape. Trump still got fake electors to falsify Electoral College documents, to try to win an election he lost and lied about, and still lies about. Regardless of Fani Willis–is trying to rig an election that was lost in this manner OK? The problem we have here is MAGA media and its vilification of people who try to hold Trump accountable for the crimes he has committed–you are missing the big picture. The issue is much bigger than Fani Willis or any conflicts of interest. What Trump did is criminal, and he needs to be held accountable.
Poor Gigenius….she wakes to a steaming turd in her bowl of Fruit Loops every day for the next 4 years.
Still whining about the 2020 election since the 2024 election was a tsunami of outright rejection of the Marxist driven leftist cult agenda. It’s all they got.
Tom: no, 2024 was absolutely NOT any “tsunami”–it was a Trump lie-fest, making up claims that he could “immedately” bring down the cost of groceries and housing “precipitiously”. It was also a tsunami of racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and taking advantage of the general lack of knowledge of the average American about economic issues and the causes of inflation, much of the cause of which is traceable to Trump and his mishandling of COVID. According to pbs: “President-elect Donald Trump got very close to a majority of the vote in this presidential election, but not quite. It is not exactly the “unprecedented and powerful mandate” Trump claimed on election night.”
In fact, Kamala Harris received more votes in 2024 than Trump received in 2016–so there was no “outright rejection” of anything. Harris is not a pathological liar like Trump is. Even Republicans admit that the fib about immediate drops in the price of groceries was a major factor in Trump’s dishonest “victory”. Now look where we are–Republicans and Democrats worked for weeks on a bipartisan budget to prevent the government from shutting down, and Trump told them to kill it because Elon Musk told him to, and is really in control of our government–having purchased the presidency for $250 million or so. So now, unless Republicans remember where their loyalties are supposed to lie, the government will shut down, no paychecks for military, Veterans, those on Social Security, etc…
It was also a tsunami of racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and taking advantage of the general lack of knowledge of the average American
@ Gigi, help normal Americans out here:
racism:”I never met a decent, clean, well spoken black American in my 40 years in Washington until I met a mulatto named Barack Obama… and if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black”
xenophobia: “you can’t go into a 7-11 unless you have a slight East Indian accent”
misogyny: ” You women must submit to men cosplaying as women competing against you in boxing and say nothing when they come into your change rooms”
My favorite: “the general lack of knowledge of the average American”. Biden and Harris both got Gigi’s vote. (but that’s not fair, she’s neither normal nor American).
Try this “We took advantage of the stupidity of the average American to pass Obamacare”
Gigi,
No, it was no crime what Trump did. He asked him to “find” the votes, not to create them out of thin air. To “find” them, they have to be there in the first place. Or, he could have found the same number of illegal votes for Biden, and tossed them out.
Ask yourself a simple question – Why does the Democrat leadership oppose Voter ID, for example. Try to find me a valid reason. Not the, ‘it would suppress the minority vote” crap. Use your head. Poor minorities get food stamps, Medicaid, liquor, cigarettes, drive cars, etc. – all require identification.
Why is it, just when it comes to voting, is the Democrat leadership so opposed to ID???
Even a majority of regular Democrats support voter ID.
Think about it for yourself, and try to give me a good answer.
Raffensberger knew exactly what Trump was asking him to do. The vote totals had been tabulated and checked. They were correct. Raffensberger knew Trump would lie about asking him to rig the vote, which is why he recorded him. You can’t “find” votes that aren’t there–and Trump was not asking him to recheck the figures–he demanded that he “find” votes. There were no illegal votes for Biden. Excerpted from “Wikipedia”:
“On January 2, 2021, during an hour-long conference call, then-U.S. President Donald Trump pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find 11,780 votes” and overturn the state’s election results from the 2020 presidential election. Trump had been unequivocally defeated by Joe Biden in the election, but refused to accept the outcome,[1] and made a months-long effort to overturn the results. Prior to the call to Raffensperger, Trump and his campaign spoke repeatedly to state and local officials in at least three states in which he had lost, urging them to recount votes, throw out some ballots,[2][3] or replace the Democratic slate of electors with a Republican slate. Trump’s call with Raffensperger was released by The Washington Post and other media outlets the next day,[4][5][6] after Trump made a statement about the call on Twitter.
According to the publicly released recording of the call and reports made by multiple news agencies, Trump attempted to pressure Raffensperger into reinvestigating the election results, despite being repeatedly told that there was no electoral error. Trump’s repeated efforts to convince Raffensperger to find some basis to overturn the election results were perceived as pleading and threatening. At one point on the call, Trump told Raffensperger, “What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.”[7] During the call, Trump falsely suggested that Raffensperger could have committed a criminal offense by refusing to overturn the state’s election results.[6] Legal experts have suggested that Trump’s behavior and demands could have violated state and federal laws.[8][9][10]
On January 11, the phone call was cited in the article of impeachment in the second impeachment of Donald Trump introduced in the House of Representatives.[11]”
Gigi,
Start reading this, on page 5:
https://www.leelanau.gov/downloads/pc_01092024_b_wiesner.pdf
Now, I asked you a question earlier – Why does the Democrat Leadership so oppose Voter ID? Please, think about it, and decide what you think!
Now, as far as the link I gave you, I am still trying to determine its source. I did not that the cites re:Georgia, are to the investigations still going on, I think, in Georgia –
per here:
https://georgiarecorder.com/2024/05/07/georgia-oversight-panel-ruminates-on-2020-election-hiccups-as-2024-showdowns-loom/
“Raffensberger knew exactly what Trump was asking him to do. ”
Mind reading again.
This is an unbeleiveably stupid argument.
You say Trump asked Raffensberger to Find 11K votes.
So What is it you claim that means ?
Raddensberger is to just add 11K to trumps tally ? The counts at each precinct are public.
We do not need incredible security in passing vote counts up to the SoS because the precinct counts are public,
The SoS can not play games with the math as they could a century ago.
So presumably we know that Trump did not mean alter the counts.
All that is left is FINDING more Trump ballots.
That is precisely what was going on in PA, and GA and …. immediately after the election – states were “finding” as many Biden ballots as they could,
They were “finding” more biden ballots for more than a month.
You tell us all this was not done fraudulently – yet here you are claiming that Trump could not possibly legally do the same thing.
“The vote totals had been tabulated and checked. ”
False. That still has not been done in GA.
There was a tiny audit of mailin votes in Cobb county – and it found a 6% error rate and a 0.6% fraud rate – both more than enough to flip the election.
Even today – though there were abortied efforts – there was not real audit of the 2020 election in GA.
The only Audit in 2020 was of Maricopa county in AZ. That audit did NOT find incontrovertable fraud, it found that there were problems with almost 50% of all ballots that had the law been followed those ballots would have been rejected.
” You can’t “find” votes that aren’t there”
Duh, That means that asking someone to FIND votes means there is a presumption on the part of the person asking that they ARE THERE.
“Trump was not asking him to recheck the figures”
Correct
“he demanded that he “find” votes.”
Correct – go find ballots that had not been counted.
“There were no illegal votes for Biden.”
ROFL. A tiny random signature audit in Cobb county which Raffensbeger reluctantly agreed to found 6% of the 5000 balloted tested where illegally counted – they should have been rejected according to GA law, and 0.6% of those examined were found to be OBVIOUS fraud.
Trump had wanted a large audit of Fulton county – have you actually listened to the testimony by th fulton county election commissioners in 2020 ?
The exact OPPOSITE of your claim is true – the Election commissioners were demanding proof of signature verification of chain of custody.
But they were being strong armed into certifing Fulton county despite the fact that to this day nearly 300,000 FC ballots do not meet the requirements of the law to be counted.
There was pressure influencing the 2020 election – but the illegal pressure was NOT from Trump.
“Excerpted from “Wikipedia””
ROFL not a reliable source on anything even slightly political.
Try and actual source – like the testimony of FC election commissioners.
OOPS
“On January 11, the phone call was cited in the article of impeachment in the second impeachment of Donald Trump introduced in the House of Representatives.”
Correct – democrats fraudulently impeached Trump twice.
Should Democrats take the house in 2026 -Trump will likely get impeached several more times before 2028.
The 2024 election establishes that overwhelming majorities of americans DO NOT BELEIVE YOU – the MSM, democrats or Wikipedia any more.
“Liars, Cheats, and Crooks” by Five Times August
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yED2b-GGRKg
You want me scared,
You want me weak
You want me brain dead and asleep
You want us trapped while you all laugh behind the scenes
You want us sick
You think we’re dumb
You want us blind and you want us drugged
You want us poor while you get more of everything
But you don’t get to tell me what to think and what to do
No, you don’t get to tell me what is true
‘Cause you’re just liars, cheats, and crooks
You change the rules and you burn the books
And so I don’t believe a single word you say
You’re all liars, fakes, and cons
We want you out and we want you gone
So don’t believe this time you’ll get away
Gigi
Yes Trump asked Raffensberger to “find votes” – you are free to call that “bullying if you wish.
Regardless Trump had no power over Raffensberger. This is not illegal.
If it not any different from the left wing nuts in PA demanding tht every ballot be counted in PA in 2020 (and 2024) – not ever LEGAL ballot.
As we have learned subsequently – LOTS – hundreds of thousands of illegal ballots were counted in GA in 2020.
Why is it that we have laws – if those of you on the left pick and choose when you will follow them ?
Again there is no such thing as a fake electors. There are state certified electors and sometimes alternates.
More than a century ago the federal courts decided that the way that you challenge the state certified electors in congress is with alternative electors.
And in 1876 that is precisely what was done and congress in several instances picked the alternatives.
You are free to dislike this.
But it is how things actually work.
Trump just won the 2024 Election. Lets presume that between now and Jan 6. 2025 evidence arrises that there was sufficient voter fraud favoring Trump in enough states to flip the election and certification by congress is the only step between Trump and the presidency.
What is congress to do ? Congress can reject the electors from states where there was fraud. But that leaves those states with NO EC votes cast and Harris can not win. The election would go to congress and Trump would still win. What can happen is that in contested states the losing candidate presents a slate of alternate electiors and congress gets to pick which electors to count. In 1876 they counted the alternates in several states and Harrison won.
The problem we have is idiots like you who are unable to judge the same facts in the same way when the shoe is on the other foot.
When Trump does something – it is a crime. When Biden or Clinton do it – it is fine.
That is the rule of man not law, and that leads to tyranny.
GiGi, Anonymous, and “John Smith” are from the same band of trolls. Ignore them.
I prefer “Trump attempted to mickey the Electoral College count”. People need short, punchy sentences….preferably just one sentence.
What Trump did is criminal, and he needs to be held accountable.
Gigi, what’s your excuse for claiming Biden hasn’t done a single thing criminal – just as his son did nothing wrong – and that’s why you say he should not be held criminally accountable?
Is part of why we all seem to disagree with Kelo, based on the idea that some poor person is going to be deprived of their property for the benefit of a richer person???
What if the situation was reversed? Let’s assume that Libville, California, a sanctuary city, has a slew of illegal immigrants who need housing. Newsome Development, a private company, wants to develop a multi-unit housing project for said persons, and asks Libville, to seize Al Gore’s 20 acre hilltop mansion for this purpose. Heck, this is a good fit, because there is already a large pool, a spa, a high-tech massage parlor, helicopter pad, tennis courts, bike path, hot tubs, large ice cream coolers, etc. Plus, Al Gore ain’t but one person, and the needs of 2,000 illegal immigrants should prevail, right???
Would we all feel differently???
Floyd,
That is an interesting premise. But I think it does not matter who it is, if they are rich or poor, for the state to take private property from one and give it to another no matter the reason it is still wrong.
“that some poor person is going to be deprived of their … ” Health?
The rich get richer by depraiving aka stealing from poor folk.
Um… United Healthcare Corp.?
The rich get richer by depraiving aka stealing from poor folk. Um… United Healthcare Corp.?
Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
Marxist Obama/Biden Obamacare!
Those are the rules of The Millionaire Formerly Known As President Obama (who DOESN’T get his health care from Obamacare), that these companies are operating under. He even needed SCOTUS to approve him replacing the Executive Branch with his phone and pen to amend his original Obamacare to get them JUST right (or radically left if you prefer).
Why do enraged commies get so angry (and murderous) when one of their head communists gives them what he promised them????
““We’d rather do it on Biden’s watch,””
And thus the honesty of trump is revealed. Blame others for your own problems.
If there is a government shutdown, the fault lays squarely at trump and president Musks feet.
asshat who predicted harris landslide ^^^^
Actually, I personally believe the real “watering-down” of the intent of the Constitution’s “public use” criterion preceded Kelo.
I believe it was the 1980s’ SCOTUS Midkiff case (Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff) which first employed a wider definition of public use to mean “public purpose.”
In Midkiff, the newer state of Hawaii had at least 50% of its real property privately held in estate by former and powerful high chiefs of the Hawaiian Islands, who exorbitantly leased the property to tenants. The state passed the Land Reform Act, in an attempt to redistribute wealth. It created the HHA (^^^) which used eminent domain to seize historic estate holdings, break them down into residential lots, and redistribute for sale among the tenants (including the provision of loans to prospective purchasers/prior tenants).
The land owners argued that transferring ownership from private owners to private owners was NOT “public use,” but SCOTUS incorporated the idea of “public purpose” (for the good of the people) as sufficient to invoke eminent domain. Then Kelo later reaffirmed that economic revitalization was sufficient to conclude that “public use” indeed included “public purpose.”
It is interesting to note that Justice Sandra Day O’Connor wrote the majority opinion in the Hawaii case, but authored the chief dissent in Kelo.
(The Kelo Court DID distinguish Midkiff by noting that Kelo involved “a carefully considered development plan that would benefit a broader swath of the public, rather than conferring a benefit on an identifiable private party (the prior tenants).
MY point is simply to note the slippery slide of defending “public purpose.”
(Only “carefully considered development plan” should be in quotation marks. Forgot the closing punctuation. apology.)
Lin,
That was very interesting. Thank you.
KELO, which I abhorred, is a good example of the follies of doggedly “following precedent”. A ship traveling from S America to England beginning one degree off course will be far from its destination if it stays the course. Precedents for KELO took each case a little further from “use” to “purpose” until it missed the constitutional target entirely. FIX KELO..
A similar event occurred in Detroit in 1980. In order to build a new assembly plant in Detroit, General Motors wanted land near Hamtramck. Unfortunately, it was densely occupied, mainly by Polish immigrants and their progeny, thus earning the sobriquet “Poletown.” The City aggressively pushed wide-spread condemnation of the area, displacing 4200 people from their homes. The residents got “market value” for their homes, but it was a poor neighborhood, suggesting they did not get enough to get adequate replacement housing. The Michigan Supreme Court upheld the land-grab. voting 5-2 in support of the City’s actions. https://www.freep.com/picture-gallery/news/local/michigan/2018/11/26/poletown-detroit-neighborhood-demolished-gm-plant/2115707002/
Your example is well-taken. Still, I only add that this preceded both MidKiff and Kelo, –instead relying on blight and high crime to justify the “taking.” I quote from your own cited article,
“Mary Hermanowicz is 89. She got out of a Poletown [Hamtramck] that wasn’t anything like the one she had grown up in. After being mugged three times and having intruders in her home three times, one of whom put a bullet hole through her ceiling, the home she had lived in since 1917 wasn’t the comfortable nest it had always been.”
(Even if GM and Michigan courts only saw $$$ in tax revenues in their eyes, “for the betterment of all.”)
Jonathan: Chris Rock was right. DJT is “not playing around”. Rock was talking about DJT’s plans to deport millions of the undocumented but his admonition equally applies to DJT’s plan of retribution–to use the FBI to go after his political “enemies”.
Take Liz Cheney. After MAGA Rep. Barry Loudermilk issue a report dutifully recommending the FBI investigate Cheney, DJT posted this at 3:11 am yesterday: “Liz Cheney could be in a lot of trouble based on the evidence obtained by the subcommittee, which states that ‘numerous federal laws were likely broken by Liz Cheney, and these violations should be investigated by the FBI’. Thank you to Congressman Barry Loudermilk as a job well done”. When someone could write this in the middle of the night you know they are serious!
Loudermilk’s report alleges Cheney “likely” broke federal statutes barring witness tampering and subordination of perjury. Serious accusations. But is there any evidence Cheney engaged in witness tampering? No. These allegations center around a call Cassidy Hutchinson made to Cheney during the J. 6 House investigation. Hutchinson was unhappy with her counsel appointed by DJT so she asked Cheney for the names of other attorneys to represent her. That was it.
To establish the crime of witness tampering there must be credible evidence that Cheney tried to get Hutchinson to change her testimony to provide knowingly false information. The Laudermilk report doesn’t come close to that. Even you acknowledged in your 10/16/24 column that Cheney was not acting as an attorney when she spoke to Hutchinson but as a member of Congress. And nothing in the record indicates Cheney was trying to get Hutchinson to change her testimony.
The FBI has strict guidelines for when they can open an investigation. Laudermilk’s report doesn’t provide any evidence to justify opening an FBI investigation. The Q is whether Kash Patel, if confirmed, will follow strict FBI guidelines or the wishes of DJT. I think we know the answer. DJT will using a willing Patel to go after Cheney and anyone else DJT perceives as a political enemy. It will be J Edgar Hoover on steroids!
The testimony issue is a sidebar to the actual crimes that Cheney and her cohorts committed. Official records of all committee hearings are required by law to be turned over to the National Archives. Cheney and her criminal co-conspiratists destroyed the documents that might have proved Trump’s innocence. She deserves prison for that alone.
What documents were deleted?
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/10/meme-rehashes-old-false-claim-that-j6-committee-destroyed-evidence/
The report confirms numerous stories reported by Just the News over the last two years that have substantially changed the public’s understanding of that tragic day, including:
The Select Committee failed to preserve significant evidence from its investigation, more than one terabyte of data in total, that includes missing videos of witness interviews;
Star witness Cassidy Hutchinson made significant material changes to her original testimony with the help of Vice Chair Cheney in an errata sheet where she introduced new narratives, some that conflicted with Secret Service testimony;
Speaker Pelosi took some responsibility for not ensuring adequate Capitol security in unaired footage recorded as part of an HBO documentary being made by her daughter; and
Department of Defense officials delayed the deployment of National Guard the Capitol despite standing orders from President Donald Trump to keep his speech and the Capitol safe.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/hld-house-gop-accuses-liz-cheney-tampering-j6-witness-ask-fbi-criminally
His first mistake was to try to refer to the dem propaganda site “factcheck.org” The reference is always the last resort when their is no valid counter argument. That’s why I don’t bother to reply to him.
What documents were deleted?
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/10/meme-rehashes-old-false-claim-that-j6-committee-destroyed-evidence/
Is that THE EXACT SAME factcheck.org who assured we Anonymous Democrats for YEARS that the Russia Dossier was verified intelligence agency evidence?
THE EXACT SAME factcheck.org who assured we Anonymous Democrats for MONTHS that the Biden laptop was Putin election disinformation?
Inquiring Anonymous Democrat minds want to know.
Hey Dennis
What’s going on with Fani?
Hey Tom: how do you like President Musk? His presidency only cost $250 million or so–a bargain! So far, he’s gotten Republicans to forget all about that oath to the Constitution and to the constituents who elected them. Hope you and yours don’t need or depend on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Benefits, or work for the TSA or other government agency, or area member of the millitary and need that paycheck. I’d like to know where Republicans left their testicles last November. Did they just hand them over to Trump, did they fall off– or what?
Kamala’s failure cost over a billion.
Tom: Kamala didn’t lie like Trump did–and it cost her. She didn’t make a baseless promise to immediately deliver a “precipitous drop” in the price of groceries, over and over again, at multiple campaign rallies, paid for by Elon Musk, complete with a table full of groceries as a prop. Kamala got more votes than Trump did in 2016.
Who is this “Tom” guy?
It’s a little bit early to sound so desperate, isn’t it? You should save some energy for your inevitable howling about Fani.
But it still cost her over a billion.
“Kamala got more votes than Trump did in 2016.”
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
What a stooge
Enjoy that turd in your Fruit Loops, LOSER!!!!
Man, gigenius is one sore loser
Tom is watching you.
Peeping Tom?
@Gigi: Tom: Kamala didn’t lie like Trump did–and it cost her.
“The border is secure!”
“I’ve already been to the border!”
“I never said I’d ban fracking!!!!”
Two lying Democrat skanks… BUT DON’T BELIEVE YOUR LYING EYES
No. We did not vote for Trump for what he promised. We voted against Harris as it was her and Biden who gave us higher grocery prices and gas prices. We voted against Harris as she stated on The View that she would not of changed anything Biden did. Trump still won in 2016. He won in 2024.
“Kamala didn’t lie”
ROFL
“like Trump did–and it cost her.”
What cost Harris was that no one was going to beleive her no matter what.
“Cause you’re just liars, cheats, and crooks
You change the rules and you burn the books
And so we don’t believe a single word you say
You’re all liars, fakes, and cons
And we want you out and we want you gone
So don’t believe this time you’ll get away”
Democrats are the little boy who cried Wolf.
Mostly I beleive Harris ran the best campaign possible. But she could not win.
Neither Biden nor Harris could win – because of the mess they made of the country in the past 4 years
And because of the constant lying.
If Harris had told the truth diring the campaign – mostly Harris and her campaign were right out of shakespeare
“That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
Regardless it does not matter what you say when you lose peoples trust.
You can fool all of the people some of the time
But you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
And that is the bind democrats are in.
No one beeives you.
Trump did not do that – you did it to yourself.
“Kamala got more votes than Trump did in 2016.”
And more than Clinton and less by FAR than Biden
Trump got 12M more votes in 2024 than in 2016 and 5M more than 2020.
Regaredless, she lost the popular vote, and she lost the electoral college.
She lost all the swing states.
She did about as badly as Biden would have.
Frankly it is unlikely a democrat could have won.
But one NOT associated with the failure of the Biden administration MIGHT have done better.
Kumswallah was a total lie….. and worse yet when she ventured into the realm of the living by speaking her ungodly word salads of nothingness.
Gig reveals herself as a Lawn Boy sock puppet again by using his President Musk horse manure.
Better than President Susan Rice
@Gigi: Hey Tom: how do you like President Musk?
Hey Gigi, share your love of President Biden, the daughter-raping pedophile whose drug addict corrupt son is currently selling access to the nuclear football while The Commander In Chief now has to watered twice a week like the rest of the Oval Office house plants!
If not: give it up for the success of your fellow Democrat skank, President-Elect DEI Hire, the wildly successful Border Czar.
Share your love of them and the wonderful job they’ve done with the rest of us, Gigi!
Old Airborne Dog
I would love President Musk – but the constitution would have to be amended.
Republicans voted against a 1500 page long pork laden continuing resolution.
They voted FOR a 146 page long one – that many republicans STILL thought had too much pork in it.
Actual entitlements – such as those you listed are NOT effected by a shutdown.
Republicans were told by voters in November – CUT SPENDING.
The CR actually increases spending – even the 150 page one.
Voters actually expect congressmen to CUT SPENDING
Democrats in the past have been successful at blaming republicans.
But I think people are getting past that.
Whether you like it or not – cutting govenrment spending is very popular and I think it is likely that most americans will see DEMOCRATS as the ones seeking to hold hostages to avoid cutting spending.
People who have lost 4500/yr in standard of living are not going to have much sympathy for government workers getting a paid vacation during a shutdown.
As tot he TSA – pretty sure thay are a critical severice that must continue durring a shutdown.
But they really are not critical – just elminiate them, and make airlines responsible for security like they once were and like they are in most of the world.
House GOP accuses Liz Cheney of tampering with J6 witness, ask FBI to investigate criminality
“Evidence uncovered by the Subcommittee revealed that former Congresswoman Liz Cheney tampered with at least one witness, Cassidy Hutchinson, by secretly communicating with Hutchinson without Hutchinson’s attorney’s knowledge.,” it added. “This secret communication with a witness is improper and likely violates 18 U.S.C. 1512. Such action is outside the due functioning of the legislative process and therefore not protected by the Speech and Debate clause.”
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/hld-house-gop-accuses-liz-cheney-tampering-j6-witness-ask-fbi-criminally
Upstate: MediaBias/Fact Check says this about “just the news”: “Overall, we rate Just the News Questionable and Right Biased based on story selection that mostly favors a conservative perspective. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks and the promotion of conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda.” In other words–MAGA media.
MediaBias/FactCheck is a DNC propaganda site. They are not legitimate, promoting DNC talking points and far left conspiracies.
And the quote above, was taken from House Administration Oversight Subcommittee and its chairman Barry Loudermilk.
Upstate: MediaBias/Fact Check says this about “just the news”:
Exact same “fact checkers” that had you pimping the Russia Dossier for FOUR YEARS, Gigi?
Exact same “fact checkers” that had you pimping the story that the Biden Laptop was Putin election campaign disinformation, Gigi?
In other words, Gigi–Mainstream Media Marxists failed.
And all the lying that you did before and continue to do along with the rest of the Soviet Democrat-Mainstream Media Factchecking Propaganda Complex isn’t going to change that.
But please continue doing the exact same thing right up until the next presidential election.
Normal Americans don’t like vicious lying sluts, Gigi.
Which is why DEI Harris is not the president-elect. And why you have ZERO CREDIBILITY here.
You are nothing but a nasty, vicious slandering Democrat performative art clown show. Playing the part of Curly in The Three Democrat Stooges.
Old Airborne Dog
Or not. In every article, they (JTN) list their sources. It is up to the consumer of information to sift through the noise and look for what seems like a strand of fact based evidence.
The winner of this election is independent news sources. The losers are the traditional ways of accessing news and commentary. They and their “talent” or no longer relevant. The cooking show are out performing them. There gone by the way of the buggy whip and horse draw carriages.
It is simple, freshman business. People will not buy that which they do not value. Most traditional and cable sources preach to their choir. When they don’t state the facts, people eventually see through the deception.
E.M.
Great comment. The fact cooking shows get more ratings than MSM is very telling. People are switching off MSM. Why would anyone want to be lectured to, lied to?
Overall we rate MediaBias Questionable and left wing nut.
Please identify a story JTN has gotten wrong ?
They were the lead on the Hunter Biden laptop story.
Is JTN right wing MAGA – possibly – because the FACTS are “right wing MAGA”.
“Cause you’re just liars, cheats, and crooks
You change the rules and you burn the books
And so we don’t believe a single word you say
You’re all liars, fakes, and cons
And we want you out and we want you gone
So don’t believe this time you’ll get away”
” President Biden’s mental health has not negatively impacted the economy or foreign policy.“
Just like Gigi can say anything that comes into her empty head, so can the fact-checkers. Both have the same problem, they lie and cannot prove their contentions. JTN information is posted on this blog all the time, but Gigi can’t prove anything they say is wrong.
Gigi is the blogs equivalent of what follows:
Georgia appeals court disqualifies DA Fani Willis from Trump election interference case
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/georgia-appeals-court-disqualifies-da-fani-willis-trump-election-interference
Hey, Dennis, didnt you once claim Fani was going to spank Trump’s fanny? And he would be wearing orange jump suit by the end of summer?
You said, “The FBI has strict guidelines for when they can open an investigation.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the morning laugh!
Let’s see, “Hey FBI, somebody said Trump peed on a mattress full of Russian hokers!”
FBI says, “Quick, get a FISA warrant!”
Geeesh DeMac, you are sooo full of sh!t! Go eat a can of creamed corn or something, and clear all that crap out of your system!
18USC1512
In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful conduct and that the defendant’s sole intention was to encourage, induce, or cause the other person to testify truthfully.
Oops.
“Hutchinson was unhappy with her counsel appointed by DJT so she asked Cheney for the names of other attorneys to represent her. That was it.”
LIAR
Please post the text messages to substantiate this claim.
Hutchison’s only concern was the COST of counsel. She didn’t come up with the “unhappy” story until AFTER her meetings with Cheney.
From CNN: “The final straw for former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson with her first attorney, paid through allies of former President Donald Trump, came when he told her to stop cooperating with the January 6 House select committee even if she risked a contempt of Congress charge, transcripts of her interviews and sources familiar with her testimony tell CNN.
Hutchinson made the comments when she returned to the select committee in September to discuss the pressure campaign she felt from Trump allies.
“I’m f***ed,” Hutchinson testified she said to her mother in the days leading up to her first interview with the committee in February. Hutchinson said she felt she had no other option but to retain Trump-aligned lawyer Stefan Passantino because she couldn’t afford to pay high costs of other lawyers she contacted to represent her.
She continued: “‘I am completely indebted to these people,’ and I was like, ‘And they will ruin my life, Mom, if I do anything they don’t want me to do.’”
Hutchinson, a former aide to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, told the committee that Passantino repeatedly urged her to downplay her role in the White House and to say she did not recall events. She said that Passantino and other Trump associates dangled job offers around the time of her first two depositions with the committee, while her lawyer and others told her to remain loyal to Trump and she would be “taken care of.”
Hutchinson said that her “breaking point” with Passantino came in June when he advised her not to speak to the committee any more, saying that risking “contempt is a small risk, but running to the right is better for you.”
According to a friend Hutchinson reached out to around that time, who spoke to CNN exclusively, while Hutchinson had long been concerned with Passantino’s advice, the advice that she risk the contempt charge create a sense of urgency for the former White House aide. Hutchinson expressed to her friend that there was more she wanted to share, but Passantino was urging her not to. Hutchinson told her friend that former White House employees were basically being directed to not share certain things by attorneys paid by Trump world. Hutchinson also expressed concern that committee investigators were not asking the right questions.
The US House Select Committee convenes a hearing to Investigate the January 6 Attack on the US Capitol, on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC, on October 13, 2022.
What’s in the House January 6 committee report summary
“It wasn’t just that I had Stefan sitting next to me; it was almost like I felt like I had Trump looking over my shoulder,” Hutchinson testified about her initial depositions before the committee. “Because I knew in some fashion it would get back to him if I said anything that he would find disloyal. And the prospect of that genuinely scared me. You know, I’d seen this world ruin people’s lives or try to ruin people’s careers. I’d seen how vicious they can be.””
Are these enough quotes for you?
Gigi: Are you aware of https://casetext.com/case/passantino-v-weissmann
(In a social media post, Weissmann said Passantino “coached [a Congressional witness] to lie.”)
The court is granting Passantino’s defamation claim to proceed to trial.
Lin,
Thank you for bringing facts to the table. Always good to see a real lawyer debunk Gigi.
Upstate: No one got “debunked” here. Hutchinson was not confortable being told to say she didn’t remember things, and that she would be taken care of if she pretended not to know facts that she did know. She was told to be loyal to Trump. IMHO, telling someone to say they don’t remember something they DO remember, and promising a reward if they deny remembering things is coaching a witness to lie. Saying “I don’t recall” when you DO recall IS a lie.
You were DEBUNKED
All of that shit was made up AFTER the fact, Gigenius. Show a single text where she refers to that BEFORE Cheney got her a new lawyer.
Gigi, again you are citing left wing nut media spin as if it was fact.
Passantino gave Hutchinson the advice EVERY good lawyer gives a witness – especially facing a hostile tribunal.
Do not lie, do not embellish, do not answer more than you are asked. Do not testify to anything you are not sure of. Do not testify to hearsay or anything else you did not witness directly. Do not speculate.
That was excellent advice. If Hutchinson was uncomfortable with that – that would be a serious error on her part.
Regardless, she did not follow Passantino’s advice and she got suckered by Chenny and as a result she lied repeatedly under oath.
I would separately note that Hutchinson’s own book contraict your claims.
Regardless while it is unlikely Hutchinson will get prosecuted. She has ruined her reputation. Somone somewhere will hire her. But she will do far worse in here life because she will be remembed as Chenney’s dupe who lied under oath.
What did Hutchinson lie about? She was very clear that “the Beast” story was something she overheard Secret Service staffers talking about. That account likely involved some embellishment / exaggeration before getting to her ears.
Testifying to ANYTHING when you are not sure or are not a first hand witness has a very high probability of leading to perjury.
I would note that significant portions of Hutchinson’s testimony have proven OBVIOUS lies.
Saying I do recall and then making something up – when you don’t is also a lie.
All the lies that Hutchinson was caught up in were “hearsay” and while congress can allow hearsay testimony,
Witnesses are rarely obligated to testify to things they heard but did not witness.
Hearsay is almost never admissible in court as evidence of the truth of what was said. Only the truth that it was said.
Nothing that Hutchinson testified to was something she was obligated to even if true.
Adn all of it proved to be false.
So not only did Chenney tamper with witnesses – she suborned perjury.
Yes, you are debunked
gigi,
it is impossible to debunk you.
No matter how much it is proven that what you write is bunk, you still have an endless supply of bunk.
So no – you can not be debunked.
The very definition of witness tampering.
Gigi is not aware of anything that is actually true.
ALL AFTER she spoke to Cheney.
CNN
LMAO
@Gigi From CNN:
Why didn’t Gigi post “From Marc Elias, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama, we are bringing you this political news”.
Same CNN that has yet to apologize to you for the four years they lied about your party’s “Russia dossier”?
Have they returned the Pulitzer Prizes they won for that cutting edge investigative journalism, Gigi?
Inquiring Anonymous Democrat minds want to know!
Help them out, Gigi!
You can not seem to tell the difference betwen FACTS and Quotes.
The quotes you cite are all evidence of left wing nut media Bias.
Huntchinson’s attorney was Passantino. He was NOT being paid by anyone Trump related – as Democrats had made clear that would result in even more charges and criminal prosecutions – unlike Hunter Biden was attorney fees and fines and costs and back taxes were paid off by Democrat surogates.
Hutchinson was advised to start a gofundme for legal fees. Individual conservatives were donating money to fund counssel for Trump staff.
Hutchinson was not obligated to “cooperate” with the J6 committee – she was obligated to tell the truth. Ultimately at Chenney’s direction she lied under oath.
That is your idea of “cooperaton”.
Regardless Passantino’s adive was NOT to “not cooperate” – his advice is on the record. It was more the TYPICAL attorney’s advice to NOT speculate, not testify to something she does not know personally or is not sure of. Hutchinson ignored that advise, sidded up to a viper and has wrecked her life.
She is fortunate – because neither Biden nor Trump are likely to prosecute her for perjury. But she has no future with republicans and likely none with democrats.
She miscalculated, Gave Chenney the lies she wanted and now has no future. She will be remembered as the person who told stupid lies to the J6 committee to curry favor with Chenny.
undocumented? What part of the word ILLEGAL don’t you understand??
Yes, Dennis there IS evidence. J6 Witnesses have TESTIFIED – some even wrote books documenting there interations with Chenney and her staff.
Much of the evidence was presented by people who did not even understand that what was occuring was illegal.
Cheney and her staff contacted witnesses and tried – and succeeded in getting them to change their testimony.
She tried – and succeeded in interfering in with witnesses counsel.
In the US this is ILLEGAL, even hints of it result in disbarrment.
Judge ABJ Jailed Manafort in Solitary while his trial was pending because he tried to contact people the prosecution did NOT identify as witnesses to see if he could find favorable witnesses.
Contra ABJ – Manaforts conduct was legal. HOWEVER no lawyer (or judge) can contact a witness that is represented by a lawyer without going through that lawyer.
Mere contact is a violation of the rules of professional conduct. Attempting to get them to change lawyers or change testimony is a CRIME;
There is absolutely no doubt at all that Chenney and her staff did this.
The ONLY question is whether the constitutional immunity afforded members of the house protects Chenney – and it likely does – though not from disbarment.
Further it does NOT protect her staff.
Further – many people – some of them Trump supporters have been prosecuted and convicted for their communicatios with prosecutors, judges, judicial staff, witnesses, and jurors in Trump cases
This is a giant no-no.
“Chris Rock was right. DJT is “not playing around”.”
I am not Chris Rock, I do not know what he was doing – you constantly claim to be clairvoyant.
“Rock was talking about DJT’s plans to deport millions of the undocumented”
Correct. What did Rock say that was at odds with What Trump has said repeatedly.
Trump has said he will deport millions of illegal immigrants.
I have not seen the sketch – but Rock is a very funny person. I am sure he managed to make that funny somehow.
Regardless, why should we be shocked when Chris Rock says in a comedy Sketch that Trump will do what he said he will do ?
70% of americans EXPECT that.
“but his admonition equally applies to DJT’s plan of retribution–to use the FBI to go after his political “enemies”.”
Trump has explicitly said that he would not “go after his enemies” that his focus will be on “Making American Great Again”.
That he will not have time for retribution.
But he has ALSO said CORRECTLY that the left opened the doors to lawfare and that he is ENTITLED to go after those who abused power to go after him.
Trump has ALSO suggested that he would Pardon Hunter Biden – though that is now unnecescary, and that he would likely Pardon Joe Biden, and that he would not go after him regardless. None of this is secret.
At the same time he has ALSO made it clear – he is CLEANING HOUSE – he was ELECTED to CLEAN HOUSE.
Kash Patel is absolutely expected by pretty much everyone to go after those within the FBI who abused power for political purposes.
Bondi is expected to prosecuted those whose abuse of power for political purposes was criminal and egregious.
This is NOT everyone who “went after” Trump. This is NOT all Trump’s enemies.
This is the people who broke the law, who abused power to go after political enemies.
This is people in government who used their power to get private actors to censor political views they did not like.
This is people who tried to blackmail defense counsel to force their clients to flip.
This is people who spied on catholics.
Who persecuted non-violent pro-lifers
This is people who put Tulsi Gabbard on terror watch lists.
This is people who put opposing political groups, churchs, concerned parents on watch lists.
I fully expect that Trump’s DOJ will go agressively after those who DID have political enemies lists and abused federal power to go after those on their lists.
I also expect that Patel and Bondi will dot their I’s and cross their T’s as they do so and NOT investigate without reasonable suspicion, and not issue warrants without probable cause,
And just follow the high standards of the law.
My personal preference – which Trump touches on periodically is a Truth and Reconcilliation commission – which is typically done as a secret investigation where witnesses get immunity in return for truthful testimony, followed by a full report of what was found, and the prosecution of those who either lied to the commission or who refused to come clean.
Frankly Trump should do something similar regarding Election integrity.
Dennis you are wrong about the scope, the facts and the law.
Hutchinson did not contact Cheney – Cheney contacted Hutchinson – several times.
Regardless, Cheney was a trier of fact – that is approximately the equivalent of a judge – she may have NO CONTACT outside of the courtroom with witnesses.
It is FALSE claim that Hutchinson was unhappy with her lawyer. What she was PUBLICLY unhappy about was that she had to PAY for a lawyer.
Democrats were agressively going adter Trump and everyone in Trump world who had contact with Witnesses – paying legal fees would have resulted in even more charges and prosecutions. Trump staff were advised to start GoFunMe’s for legal costs. as the only means for Trump world to aide in dfreaying the legal costs of Chenney’s witch hunt.
Regardless, there is no circumstances under which Chenney can communicate with Hutchinson outside of a hearing.
While it is witness tampering – it is also obstruction of justice and violation of the civil rights of another under color of law. And probably several other crimes.
You keep trying to defend Chenney.
Can you tell me any other circumstance where a judge – a trier of fact has been in contact with a witness without counsel present ?
There was a big stink in 2019 over whether Shifty Schiff had direct contact with the so called Whistleblower in the first Trump impeachment.
This was LESS of a violation that Chenney and Hutchinson – and BTW Hutchinson is not the only witness Cheney contacted.
In the case of Ciaramello he was essentially a democrat witness, and it was STILL inappropriate for Schiff or his staff to communiczte with that witness about testimony outside of a hearing with counsel present.
We also had something similar in the Bragg case.
One of the reasons that Weisenberg could not testify – and that Merchan was required to recuse is that Merchan was part of the effort to “flip” Weisenberg in the James case.
Prosecutors CAN use judges to inform targets of the law (with their counsel present) and the consequences of violating it inorder to secure a witnesses cooperation.
This is unusual – and frankly should be unconstitutional but the courts have allowed it.
But what they do NOT allow is for a judge who is involved in that way to participate in other cases where that person might be a witness or that are otherwise related.
In federal courts there is a wall between magistrate judges and trial court judges to address this. We saw that in the MAL case.
Regardless Merchan particippated in trying to roll Weisenberg. Merchan threatened Wesineberg with spending the res of his life in jail if he did not flip on Trump.
But then realizing he was in deep shiff, Merchan passed the Weisenberg case to another judge who accepted a time served plea agreement.
Regardless, Merchans participation in the Wesienberg vcase required recusal in the trump case – as wesenberg was a potential witness – either for the prosecution or Trump.
And Merchan had a conflict with Weisenberg.
But as is typical – left wing nuts do not follow the rule of law or professional ethics.
‘Cause you’re just liars, cheats, and crooks
You change the rules and you burn the books
And so we don’t believe a single word you say
You’re all liars, fakes, and cons
And we want you out and we want you gone
So don’t believe this time you’ll get away’
This is the same things NAZIs did to Jews that they murdered.
Totally surprised New York officials haven’t already seized the property of conservatives and given it to their liberal buddies…
Oh, wait! E. Jean Carroll 🙁
Tip, meet iceberg!
Most places, you have more of a problem with cities not growing, instead of growing. You may have some third-world sprawl going on, but real growth of the major cities with productive populations seems to be fading.
This is going to play hell with municipal employees in the future years. I recently watched the movie, The Help, and I enjoyed it. Jackson, Mississippi, in the 1960s, with its Mean Old Dysfunctional White Folks being served by the poor, discriminated against colored folks, tending the white folk’s babies, and working on the lawns and gardens, while Medgar Evers is getting gunned down in the background. Jackson, then, was a bustling place, with nice houses, and there were even colored neighborhoods where white girls could go in relative safety.
It was a good movie, and it premiered in MADISON, Mississippi. Huh??? Madison, Mississippi??? Why not Jackson, Mississippi??? You see, Madison is one of the burbs where the Mean Old White Folks moved after the Feds desegregated the schools . Meanwhile, the formerly bustling Jackson –
“High criminal activity, particularly the homicide rate, is a major reoccurring issue in the city. Crime has had a negative impact on the city’s economy and population. Most parts of Jackson are considered a food desert because important grocery stores and restaurants have closed down or left the city as theft and other crimes have worsened since 2000.[87][88][89]
In 2020, the city’s homicide rate reached its highest in history with 79.69 homicides per 100,000 residents, with a total of 128 homicides.[90] Of major U.S. cities, only St. Louis surpassed Jackson’s homicide rate.[”
What happens to the city, to the city’s employees, the tax base? I do not think that a Kelo-problem could happen in Jackson, or myriad other cities in this country, because who wants to live there anymore? Who, in their right mind, would finance any private undertaking in Jackson, of any large nature.
That’s the bigger problem – an inverse Kelo situation where no one wants the damn property, and no one wants to develop it.
Here, you can drive through Jackson, and Madison for yourself!
Floyd,
Why bother going to Jackson Mississippi? Look what has happened to San Fran in the failed state of CA under Democrat progressive policies. From a once thriving, clean, business district to a h3ll hole in less than a decade.
And people are voting with their feet too, leaving Blue states like CA, NY, IL for Red states where life is better.
Outmigration cost California $24B in departed incomes as poorer people move in
https://justthenews.com/nation/states/center-square/outmigration-cost-california-24b-departed-incomes-poorer-people-move
The governor of population losing NY, Houchal recently declared the electoral college needs to go because low population states like WY have to much influence in the election. People and business keep leaving NY, Houchal just might want to rethink that idea.
How true! I live in what is supposedly one of the worst cities in the country – nearly a clone of Jackson. I keep a loaded gun in the back flap of my wheelchair. That being said, I do not feel unsafe, and life in the city is pretty much as it has always been, just kind of slowly effervescing away. There are still retail stores, and grocery stores, and restaurants. The people getting gunned down are mostly bad people being slain by other bad people. Many white folks have moved to the burbs surrounding the city. A lot of the old retail areas have been subsumed into black neighborhoods, and those stores are shuttered, and those banks. The public schools suck, and as a good friend, and relative, who used to be a teacher said, “It’s like trying to teach a bunch of monkeys.” He quit years ago, disgusted at what the little monsters were getting away with. He loved teaching and wanted good things for the kids in his class, but he could not make headway against the students, the parent(s), the administration or the bureaucracy. Which, when the kids are stupid and violent, the future is only going to get worse.
And from what I can tell, this is what is happening all over the country.
Jonathan
When you see Dennis McInliar today, ask him how the Fanny Fanny Fo Fanny case is going, down in Jawja.
You remember her? The woman Dennis referred to as “the first intelligent black women in a courtroom”?
A Fani story in the Hill??? Ironic, in a Cleland-like way.
“After carefully considering the trial court’s findings in its order, we conclude that it erred by failing to disqualify DA Willis and her office,” Judge E. Trenton Brown III wrote in the court’s ruling.
“The remedy crafted by the trial court to prevent an ongoing appearance of impropriety did nothing to address the appearance of impropriety that existed at times when DA Willis was exercising her broad pretrial discretion about who to prosecute and what charges to bring,” it continued
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5048455-fani-willis-disqualified-trump-georgia/
So, you are saying Dennis is wrong . . . again?
LOL! Is he ever right about anything? DeMac lives in his little bubble, fretting about whether some screwed-up kid can legally get his weenie whacked off.